I need to end this thing, right?
February 10, 2023 6:09 PM Subscribe
Can you all help me figure out a way to end an early dating situation with kindness and care? And also help me make sure that's the right call?
I recently went on a few dates with a really lovely person. We have some great alignments around some values that are important to both of us and both really enjoyed our time together.
We had kissed and both wanted to escalate to more physically, and my house wasn't an option (reasons aren't relevant to the question, but it's a medium-term situation). My date said their place wasn't in good condition and they needed to clean. It was clear they felt embarrassed by it. I said we could find an alternative, like a hotel, but they said no, let's go to their place, as their bed at least was clean, and they asked me to ignore the rest.
Well, we did go to their place, and I'm still pretty unsettled by it all. I'm not sure if this person has a hoarding tendency or has been unable to keep things clean and organized because of other reasons (perhaps because of depression, as I know they've struggled with some mental health issues during the pandemic). Perhaps squalor is the better word; there was a lot of trash around, and lots of clutter. It was dark in some parts, and I had had a few drinks, so I don't remember everything. I'm not a neat freak. Please trust that this went well beyond messy. Their kitchen was unusable, and there were only narrow walkways in some rooms.
We haven't gotten together since that night (I stayed a few hours only), and I'm not sure how to move forward. I am wondering if it's worth having a conversation with them about their living situation and if it might change. Is it possible this is a newish turn for them? I don't want to add to the shame and embarrassment they feel; they are kind and gentle, and I want to treat them with kindness and gentleness. I'm feeling a lot of concern about this person but also a lot of unease at their home. I'm non-monogamous and I'm generally looking for relationships with longer term potential right now. Even if we could hang out at my place (not an option in the short term), I'd still be concerned about what their living situation means about their physical and mental health.
So, have a chat, or end it? And if I end it, how do I do so as kindly as possible?
I recently went on a few dates with a really lovely person. We have some great alignments around some values that are important to both of us and both really enjoyed our time together.
We had kissed and both wanted to escalate to more physically, and my house wasn't an option (reasons aren't relevant to the question, but it's a medium-term situation). My date said their place wasn't in good condition and they needed to clean. It was clear they felt embarrassed by it. I said we could find an alternative, like a hotel, but they said no, let's go to their place, as their bed at least was clean, and they asked me to ignore the rest.
Well, we did go to their place, and I'm still pretty unsettled by it all. I'm not sure if this person has a hoarding tendency or has been unable to keep things clean and organized because of other reasons (perhaps because of depression, as I know they've struggled with some mental health issues during the pandemic). Perhaps squalor is the better word; there was a lot of trash around, and lots of clutter. It was dark in some parts, and I had had a few drinks, so I don't remember everything. I'm not a neat freak. Please trust that this went well beyond messy. Their kitchen was unusable, and there were only narrow walkways in some rooms.
We haven't gotten together since that night (I stayed a few hours only), and I'm not sure how to move forward. I am wondering if it's worth having a conversation with them about their living situation and if it might change. Is it possible this is a newish turn for them? I don't want to add to the shame and embarrassment they feel; they are kind and gentle, and I want to treat them with kindness and gentleness. I'm feeling a lot of concern about this person but also a lot of unease at their home. I'm non-monogamous and I'm generally looking for relationships with longer term potential right now. Even if we could hang out at my place (not an option in the short term), I'd still be concerned about what their living situation means about their physical and mental health.
So, have a chat, or end it? And if I end it, how do I do so as kindly as possible?
Best answer: It will not change without them wanting it to change and seeking help and putting in massive amounts of effort, and even then, it may not change. I would end it. I appreciate that this person needs help, but you are not the medical professional to provide that help and I don't think a conversation will work. This is not recent. It takes... a very long time to build up to that level.
"I had a good time, but I feel I don't see this continuing as a relationship. I wish you well."
I don't think you need at add anything. I don't think a talk would help, it's likely other people already have brought it up and maybe even offered help - given that they show some awareness.
I grew up around someone with fluctuating hoarding. It was... not the best and I have a lot of ~feelings~ and history around tidiness that I'm still sorting. I really wouldn't recommend getting into this with someone in terms of helping unless you are a medical professional or family/friend that has been requested to help and can bring a medical /social help professional.
posted by Crystalinne at 6:35 PM on February 10, 2023 [13 favorites]
"I had a good time, but I feel I don't see this continuing as a relationship. I wish you well."
I don't think you need at add anything. I don't think a talk would help, it's likely other people already have brought it up and maybe even offered help - given that they show some awareness.
I grew up around someone with fluctuating hoarding. It was... not the best and I have a lot of ~feelings~ and history around tidiness that I'm still sorting. I really wouldn't recommend getting into this with someone in terms of helping unless you are a medical professional or family/friend that has been requested to help and can bring a medical /social help professional.
posted by Crystalinne at 6:35 PM on February 10, 2023 [13 favorites]
Best answer: They know the house was in a socially unacceptable condition; you noted their embarrassment at the idea of bringing you there. They know they live in squalor. Discussing it with them, especially framed as one of the reasons you don’t want to continue dating them, will be further embarrassing and hurtful.
The reasons they live that way don’t matter—they can’t change it for you, and while a supportive friend might be able to help them make changes they desire, you’re not that person to them.
You can end it just based on it not being a fit/you’re not interested in pursuing this type of relationship with them. They’ll know the state of their home is part of that.
posted by assenav at 6:38 PM on February 10, 2023 [18 favorites]
The reasons they live that way don’t matter—they can’t change it for you, and while a supportive friend might be able to help them make changes they desire, you’re not that person to them.
You can end it just based on it not being a fit/you’re not interested in pursuing this type of relationship with them. They’ll know the state of their home is part of that.
posted by assenav at 6:38 PM on February 10, 2023 [18 favorites]
Best answer: What you saw is how they live their life normally. That is what you could expect if you lived with them. Doesn't mean they couldn't change in the future, but that's not them now. And you should always expect people to be as they are now and not hope for change.
When you end it they will know that's what it is. And it might help them take the steps to change. A generic "I don't think we're a match" is plenty and can be done via text or email if it's only been a few dates.
posted by Saucywench at 6:55 PM on February 10, 2023 [12 favorites]
When you end it they will know that's what it is. And it might help them take the steps to change. A generic "I don't think we're a match" is plenty and can be done via text or email if it's only been a few dates.
posted by Saucywench at 6:55 PM on February 10, 2023 [12 favorites]
Best answer: If they brought you there they are not embarrassed enough by it that they're ready to change. However you go forward I would assume that the state of their place will be the same for the time being.
posted by Tell Me No Lies at 6:57 PM on February 10, 2023 [3 favorites]
posted by Tell Me No Lies at 6:57 PM on February 10, 2023 [3 favorites]
Let me get this straight: you went on a few dates and wanted to have sex with them. You said you can't go to your place (for secret reasons), maybe a hotel (who was going to pay?). Oh also you don't want to commit much to them other than maybe sometimes sex and fun dates.
They acted embarrassed about their place but wanted to have sex too, so they put themselves in a vulnerable position and invited you over. You went there and had sex. Maybe before or maybe after, you thought their house was gross.
Your question is, how to end this nicely, or should you?
I don't think there's a nice way to say "I like you, and your values and our time together and the sex. You are lovely, but I was grossed out by your home, so I won't do that sex again."
I say the kindest thing you can do is say you have some sort of problem with casually sexing people with dirty houses, and let them move on as soon as possible.
posted by SaltySalticid at 7:24 PM on February 10, 2023 [7 favorites]
They acted embarrassed about their place but wanted to have sex too, so they put themselves in a vulnerable position and invited you over. You went there and had sex. Maybe before or maybe after, you thought their house was gross.
Your question is, how to end this nicely, or should you?
I don't think there's a nice way to say "I like you, and your values and our time together and the sex. You are lovely, but I was grossed out by your home, so I won't do that sex again."
I say the kindest thing you can do is say you have some sort of problem with casually sexing people with dirty houses, and let them move on as soon as possible.
posted by SaltySalticid at 7:24 PM on February 10, 2023 [7 favorites]
Best answer: I once had a date like this and I'm very glad I walked away before potentially getting attached. I can't imagine trying to clean up after such a person for the rest of my life. I just used the "it's not you, it's me" excuse that served me well in my 20s.
posted by Threeve at 7:44 PM on February 10, 2023 [5 favorites]
posted by Threeve at 7:44 PM on February 10, 2023 [5 favorites]
"I had fun, but it's not working for me."
posted by evilDoug at 8:10 PM on February 10, 2023 [1 favorite]
posted by evilDoug at 8:10 PM on February 10, 2023 [1 favorite]
Best answer: Be careful of the possibility that they may be unwilling to acknowledge that their circumstances ought to have any impact on anyone else. That they are kind or seemed even slightly embarrassed doesn't preclude that.
The kindest thing you can do for everyone involved is to nope out generically and leave them well alone. This is not your problem to interrogate, and it's naïve to assume that they won't hit back in strange mindfucky ways if you do show concern. Do not trust that they are capable of receiving kindness that creates any degree of expectation to do something on someone else's terms. It's cold, but assuming that someone like this is demand avoidant will save your sanity. That is, unless you're cool with needing to internalize that you're the problem.
posted by blerghamot at 8:28 PM on February 10, 2023 [2 favorites]
The kindest thing you can do for everyone involved is to nope out generically and leave them well alone. This is not your problem to interrogate, and it's naïve to assume that they won't hit back in strange mindfucky ways if you do show concern. Do not trust that they are capable of receiving kindness that creates any degree of expectation to do something on someone else's terms. It's cold, but assuming that someone like this is demand avoidant will save your sanity. That is, unless you're cool with needing to internalize that you're the problem.
posted by blerghamot at 8:28 PM on February 10, 2023 [2 favorites]
Best answer: My mother-in-law was a hoarder towards the end of her life. Every time we came over for holidays, she would apologize in an embarrassed fashion about the state of her house. She even used the same phrases, year after year. But her embarrassment didn’t mean she was able to do anything about the situation.
posted by PussKillian at 8:34 PM on February 10, 2023 [6 favorites]
posted by PussKillian at 8:34 PM on February 10, 2023 [6 favorites]
Best answer: Oooh I dated the Sexy Squalor person! Not a good decision, turns out the squalor wasn’t the only thing wrong, personality-wise. Super nice person, generous and sexy, but could never be more than a fling. I really should have backed out sooner, and I advise you to consider the wisdom of doing so.
posted by Vatnesine at 8:53 PM on February 10, 2023 [1 favorite]
posted by Vatnesine at 8:53 PM on February 10, 2023 [1 favorite]
Best answer: >I am wondering if it's worth having a conversation with them about their living situation and if it might change.
Their living situation isn't going to change. So is it worth having a conversation with them? Well, what do you want out of that conversation? You don't know them very well and they already know their home is in bad shape. I don't know what, if any, impact your words will have on them.
The kindest thing you can do is stop seeing them because you're not feeling it. The kindest way to do that is by saying something like "it was great spending time and getting to know you, but I don't think we're compatible in the long term." If they ask directly if it's because of their home, then you can say something like, "yes, it made me feel really uncomfortable." Otherwise, don't bring it up.
posted by foxjacket at 9:47 PM on February 10, 2023 [23 favorites]
Their living situation isn't going to change. So is it worth having a conversation with them? Well, what do you want out of that conversation? You don't know them very well and they already know their home is in bad shape. I don't know what, if any, impact your words will have on them.
The kindest thing you can do is stop seeing them because you're not feeling it. The kindest way to do that is by saying something like "it was great spending time and getting to know you, but I don't think we're compatible in the long term." If they ask directly if it's because of their home, then you can say something like, "yes, it made me feel really uncomfortable." Otherwise, don't bring it up.
posted by foxjacket at 9:47 PM on February 10, 2023 [23 favorites]
Best answer: foxjacket has it. No, it's not worth initiating a conversation about the squalor; it won't change the squalor, and it will just be awful for both of you. But if they ask, tell the truth.
This stuff is rough.
posted by fingersandtoes at 10:43 PM on February 10, 2023 [1 favorite]
This stuff is rough.
posted by fingersandtoes at 10:43 PM on February 10, 2023 [1 favorite]
Best answer: The harsh answer above doesn't make sense to me. You were interested in this person, proceeded in good faith, and then learned something significant about them that was information you needed to know it wouldn't really work for you. It would have been much more painful for them if you'd taken a look at their house and run out in horror. You are allowed to consider all the factors of how someone lives when deciding whether or not to go ahead with a relationship. You feel you can't live with that, clearly, so it's best to end it now.
People tend to ignore things that they should know will be incompatibilities because of the initial limerence. It's much better not to start a real entangled intimate relationship and then have to break up about something you should have known was a problem all along. We see that on Askme and elsewhere: "How can I tell them after all this time that X has always been a problem and I want out?" Much harder then.
There will be people who don't mind hanging out in a chaotic space, but that person isn't you. That's ok.
As for what to say: I would be vague as everyone is saying. But really if they say "Please tell me exactly why" or "was it because of my room," you might tell them a gently phrased truth: Yes, I think you're amazing but I'm someone who needs a more orderly space around me, I'm looking for something longterm and so I don't think we'd be compatible ultimately." But only if they ask if that is why.
posted by Tim Bucktooth at 11:06 PM on February 10, 2023 [8 favorites]
People tend to ignore things that they should know will be incompatibilities because of the initial limerence. It's much better not to start a real entangled intimate relationship and then have to break up about something you should have known was a problem all along. We see that on Askme and elsewhere: "How can I tell them after all this time that X has always been a problem and I want out?" Much harder then.
There will be people who don't mind hanging out in a chaotic space, but that person isn't you. That's ok.
As for what to say: I would be vague as everyone is saying. But really if they say "Please tell me exactly why" or "was it because of my room," you might tell them a gently phrased truth: Yes, I think you're amazing but I'm someone who needs a more orderly space around me, I'm looking for something longterm and so I don't think we'd be compatible ultimately." But only if they ask if that is why.
posted by Tim Bucktooth at 11:06 PM on February 10, 2023 [8 favorites]
Best answer: I don't think the problem they have is that they are unaware of the state of their home. It's not necessary for you to tell them that they live in squalor. You don't need to give a reason for not seeing someone again, I think just saying that you don't think the two of you are a match or similar would be best.
posted by plonkee at 12:00 AM on February 11, 2023 [3 favorites]
posted by plonkee at 12:00 AM on February 11, 2023 [3 favorites]
Best answer: Politely end things but don't mention their house situation. I had a somewhat similar situation once where on a second date a guy invited me over...turns out he lived in a probably illegal storage facility/parking garage with several roommates. I politely ended things via text a few days later but didn't tell him why. No point in embarrassing him.
posted by emd3737 at 3:49 AM on February 11, 2023 [1 favorite]
posted by emd3737 at 3:49 AM on February 11, 2023 [1 favorite]
Best answer: Shame and stigma around mental illness, is a barrier to people getting the help they need. Not talking about things only reinforces shame. Whether you mention the hording or not in you end things script, this person will know that the hording is the main reason. So all in all I think it's actually kinder and more helpful to this person in the long run if you mention it.
I think katmai has it right. Talk about the positive things and be upfront about the negative. Let them know that they are a good person, but that you are not in a place where you could support someone who is struggling that much. It's not so much about gross mess, but that you don't have the ability to give this person what they need as they address their mental health needs.
posted by brookeb at 8:02 AM on February 11, 2023 [2 favorites]
I think katmai has it right. Talk about the positive things and be upfront about the negative. Let them know that they are a good person, but that you are not in a place where you could support someone who is struggling that much. It's not so much about gross mess, but that you don't have the ability to give this person what they need as they address their mental health needs.
posted by brookeb at 8:02 AM on February 11, 2023 [2 favorites]
Best answer: Leave shame far, far away; be positive and gain clarity. Don't extrapolate, don't assume. Everybody here deducing overarching mental health issues or immutable circumstances is assuming a lot, based on what they think is most likely.
"Most likely" isn't enough to judge anyone. Ask, and ask in a way that gives a constant subtext of "I like you and I care about you, even if I can't totally derail my life to _take_ care of you."
posted by amtho at 9:46 AM on February 11, 2023 [5 favorites]
"Most likely" isn't enough to judge anyone. Ask, and ask in a way that gives a constant subtext of "I like you and I care about you, even if I can't totally derail my life to _take_ care of you."
Hey, I had such a good time the other night. Thank you so much for trusting me enough to let me into your space. In the end it didn't matter much how cluttered it was, did it?Find out: how long things have been in this state; whether the person perceives a problem; whether they _want_ things to change. Don't necessarily give up on them if they don't have a definite plan right now to fix everything, but if this is a temporary depression caused by a harsh life event, for example, it may not be permanent. People do get very depressed for over a year, and they do get better.
Since we're considering how to move forward, I wondered if I could ask you a little about your life? You know about my [thing]. I do sometimes deal with [challenge], which can be a lot for anyone I spend time with. I've done [things] to keep it from getting worse over time or affecting others too much, but hey, you never know. It's hard to predict the future; I'm just doing the best I can.
Your place has [good thing - location, stability, a big bathroom, cool art, whatever]. Other parts of it, though, I'm wondering ..
posted by amtho at 9:46 AM on February 11, 2023 [5 favorites]
Best answer: Hoarding is typically enmeshed with any or all of depression, OCD, illness, aging. It takes a huge amount of effort for someone in this situation to extricate themselves and the very things that cause it keep people from being able to resolve it. Please avoid blame and shame, as I think you will. It's hard to tell someone that their mental and/or physical illness makes it impossible to date them but I think the message is that you aren't in a position to be involved with them right now because they really need to be dealing with their issues in therapy.
If you can continue a friendship and be a listener, great, but don't offer it if you can't do it.
posted by theora55 at 9:57 AM on February 11, 2023 [1 favorite]
If you can continue a friendship and be a listener, great, but don't offer it if you can't do it.
posted by theora55 at 9:57 AM on February 11, 2023 [1 favorite]
Best answer: Yeah, I agree with the few dissenting voices that since we really don't know much about this person (it's possible this is a semi-recent development), the kindest approach is to express that you care about them, even if you are concerned by what you saw. Because it sounds like you were really into them leading up to this reveal? And even now, you're clearly searching/hoping for some solution.
I'd suggest a day-time meet up, and have a conversation with them about it. I'd say something along the lines of "Hey, I've really enjoyed hanging out with you and feel chemistry with you! But while I enjoyed a lot about the other night, I was a little alarmed by the level of mess - I'm not judging you, I know my mental health took a hit over the pandemic too, but I just wanted to ask you about it" And then you can see what they say - maybe they're struggling to figure out where to begin, maybe they're having a hard time admitting how bad it is, and yes, maybe they aren't motivated to change - but you won't know unless you have what might be a difficult conversation about it. You of course don't have to do this, but if you do it from a place of kindness, it would be a kind thing to do.
posted by coffeecat at 10:02 AM on February 11, 2023
I'd suggest a day-time meet up, and have a conversation with them about it. I'd say something along the lines of "Hey, I've really enjoyed hanging out with you and feel chemistry with you! But while I enjoyed a lot about the other night, I was a little alarmed by the level of mess - I'm not judging you, I know my mental health took a hit over the pandemic too, but I just wanted to ask you about it" And then you can see what they say - maybe they're struggling to figure out where to begin, maybe they're having a hard time admitting how bad it is, and yes, maybe they aren't motivated to change - but you won't know unless you have what might be a difficult conversation about it. You of course don't have to do this, but if you do it from a place of kindness, it would be a kind thing to do.
posted by coffeecat at 10:02 AM on February 11, 2023
Best answer: Untreated ADHD can look like this, and is very treatable although accessing can be difficult due to regulations around stimulant medication.
posted by cape at 10:57 AM on February 11, 2023 [4 favorites]
posted by cape at 10:57 AM on February 11, 2023 [4 favorites]
Best answer: To be fair, treated ADHD can look like that. Because mine is treated, and you’re not gonna want to go anywhere near my kitchen. I don’t really think it matters why this one person has a living situation that does not work for you. As noted above, you guys are not bad people just a bad match. You’re a bad match because it’s unlikely that the situation is going to change. So be kind to yourself and to this other person by respecting their time and not wasting it with conversations that are not going to change anything.
posted by Bella Donna at 1:17 PM on February 11, 2023 [7 favorites]
posted by Bella Donna at 1:17 PM on February 11, 2023 [7 favorites]
Best answer: Not just ADHD but ADHD plus Autism can affect executive function so housekeeping tasks aren't done and it can look like this. Autistic burnout can look like this.
Whatever caused the housekeeping problem, it's a big deal that this person trusted you to let you into their home - that was potentially opening themself to a lot of shaming and stigmatising.
If it is in fact a non-neurotypical person whose executive functioning isn't compatible with housekeeping, they aren't mentally ill, they just struggle with household tasks. Some of the most creative, generous and nicest people I know live like this. The thing is, the support they need to close the executive functioning gap causing the build up of clutter and trash (plus hurtful judgements from other people) is usually not there or they are too interested in other things to keep on top of tasks. And even if you get formally diagnosed, much-needed practical help for this kind of thing is usually not on offer.
But the likelihood is that even with help they won't reach housekeeping standards that will make a tidy person comfortable because it may not be where their attention goes.
So I'm torn between Bella Donna 'don't waste time by having conversations that won't change anything' and a tweaked version of coffeecat's answer (people with atypical executive function due to being non-neurotypical are not mentally ill - please don't assume that)
If you really really like them, then maybe try a revised version of coffeecat's script.
posted by Flitcraft at 4:08 PM on February 11, 2023 [3 favorites]
Whatever caused the housekeeping problem, it's a big deal that this person trusted you to let you into their home - that was potentially opening themself to a lot of shaming and stigmatising.
If it is in fact a non-neurotypical person whose executive functioning isn't compatible with housekeeping, they aren't mentally ill, they just struggle with household tasks. Some of the most creative, generous and nicest people I know live like this. The thing is, the support they need to close the executive functioning gap causing the build up of clutter and trash (plus hurtful judgements from other people) is usually not there or they are too interested in other things to keep on top of tasks. And even if you get formally diagnosed, much-needed practical help for this kind of thing is usually not on offer.
But the likelihood is that even with help they won't reach housekeeping standards that will make a tidy person comfortable because it may not be where their attention goes.
So I'm torn between Bella Donna 'don't waste time by having conversations that won't change anything' and a tweaked version of coffeecat's answer (people with atypical executive function due to being non-neurotypical are not mentally ill - please don't assume that)
If you really really like them, then maybe try a revised version of coffeecat's script.
posted by Flitcraft at 4:08 PM on February 11, 2023 [3 favorites]
Best answer: I wanted to chime in because I was the other person. After my husband left me I went through a time where I didn’t really clean for … a couple of years. I kept the kitchen usable and didn’t really hoard per se, but I also didn’t do anything about the accumulating dust in the corners and on all surfaces, wore things out of the laundry basket rather than putting my clothes away, etc. During that time I ended up in a friends with benefits situation and the first night we got together was similar in that we didn’t have another place except mine for that hookup. I nearly declined but ended up bringing him over, after explaining and warning him.
Anyway he did me the courtesy of not really saying anything and not seeming to notice or care much, which was a big relief. We hung out at both my place and his occasionally for the next couple of years.
I think if my mess had been a reason he didn’t want to carry on carrying on, there’s probably no way to avoid my feeling ashamed, because I was already ashamed of it. But probably a straightforward statement would have at least kept the shame to a minimum. Like, don’t ask me about it, we both already know how it looks. But I guess it would have been ok if he’d said he couldn’t deal with my mess and gotten it over with.
We were FWB as I said, so he wasn’t worried about making a home together or anything, so in our case hanging out mostly at his place would have worked too. But please don’t explain to her that she’s living in squalor. She knows.
posted by Occula at 4:16 PM on February 11, 2023 [2 favorites]
Anyway he did me the courtesy of not really saying anything and not seeming to notice or care much, which was a big relief. We hung out at both my place and his occasionally for the next couple of years.
I think if my mess had been a reason he didn’t want to carry on carrying on, there’s probably no way to avoid my feeling ashamed, because I was already ashamed of it. But probably a straightforward statement would have at least kept the shame to a minimum. Like, don’t ask me about it, we both already know how it looks. But I guess it would have been ok if he’d said he couldn’t deal with my mess and gotten it over with.
We were FWB as I said, so he wasn’t worried about making a home together or anything, so in our case hanging out mostly at his place would have worked too. But please don’t explain to her that she’s living in squalor. She knows.
posted by Occula at 4:16 PM on February 11, 2023 [2 favorites]
(Not to abuse the edit window - I’m a bit better now.)
posted by Occula at 4:19 PM on February 11, 2023 [2 favorites]
posted by Occula at 4:19 PM on February 11, 2023 [2 favorites]
Best answer: I don't think you have enough information to know whether the squalor necessarily indicates that they have mental health issues which make them undatable for you. Obviously you're not comfortable in their space so you shouldn't go there again, and if you were looking for a partner to cohabitate with they wouldn't be a good choice, but I don't get the impression you're in the market for that right now.
So if you really like them, spend more time with them to figure out whether this has potential to be the kind of relationship you want. As you get to know them better you'll learn why their place is like that and whether those reasons are deal breakers for you.
That said, if you don't want to take the time to work that out, or even if the logistical challenges of neither of you being able to host makes this work instead of fun, don't feel bad about opting out. Just because someone is a good person doesn't mean they get to date you.
posted by metasarah at 10:15 PM on February 11, 2023 [1 favorite]
So if you really like them, spend more time with them to figure out whether this has potential to be the kind of relationship you want. As you get to know them better you'll learn why their place is like that and whether those reasons are deal breakers for you.
That said, if you don't want to take the time to work that out, or even if the logistical challenges of neither of you being able to host makes this work instead of fun, don't feel bad about opting out. Just because someone is a good person doesn't mean they get to date you.
posted by metasarah at 10:15 PM on February 11, 2023 [1 favorite]
Best answer: My mother-in-law was a hoarder towards the end of her life. Every time we came over for holidays, she would apologize in an embarrassed fashion about the state of her house. She even used the same phrases, year after year. But her embarrassment didn’t mean she was able to do anything about the situation.
Yes, this. My mom's brain broke in the mid-2000's when my dad went into the hospital and she's hoarded ever since. I've had many conversations with my therapist and frankly, nobody knows how to successfully treat hoarding. My mom wouldn't take medication (2 days of side effects and NOPE), and if you forcibly remove things and she knows about it, she screams. She's actually gotten seriously injured from the hoarding and that's still not going to make her change. She couldn't voluntarily get rid of the crap in the house if you held a gun to her head.
Don't date this person. Unless you can do like my mom did and have her move in with you and then she feels too embarrassed to start hoarding at the boyfriend's. But...I wouldn't say to give this a try.
posted by jenfullmoon at 8:10 AM on February 12, 2023
Yes, this. My mom's brain broke in the mid-2000's when my dad went into the hospital and she's hoarded ever since. I've had many conversations with my therapist and frankly, nobody knows how to successfully treat hoarding. My mom wouldn't take medication (2 days of side effects and NOPE), and if you forcibly remove things and she knows about it, she screams. She's actually gotten seriously injured from the hoarding and that's still not going to make her change. She couldn't voluntarily get rid of the crap in the house if you held a gun to her head.
Don't date this person. Unless you can do like my mom did and have her move in with you and then she feels too embarrassed to start hoarding at the boyfriend's. But...I wouldn't say to give this a try.
posted by jenfullmoon at 8:10 AM on February 12, 2023
Response by poster: I have ADHD and I wondered (before seeing their place) if this person was also ADHD based on our interactions (our conversations tended to flow and bop around like with my ADHD friends). My therapist also suggested (based on more information I shared than here) that this could be depression.
Regardless, the reason why their place looks as it does isn't for me to know. I've decided, based on this question and a conversation with my therapist, not to continue dating this person. You all had some great insights, and I appreciate that. I particularly appreciate the comments from folks who have known people in similar living situations. My therapist pointed out that if I continued seeing them, I'd likely get attached, and ending it would be harder. I also realized that if I dated this person, it would be with the hope of them changing, and it's never good to start a relationship wanting someone to change.
So it's a little bit sad now, because I do like this person, and I hoped there was potential, but it's much easier to end something when it's a little bit sad rather than when I'm much more invested.
posted by woolsocks at 4:53 PM on February 14, 2023 [4 favorites]
Regardless, the reason why their place looks as it does isn't for me to know. I've decided, based on this question and a conversation with my therapist, not to continue dating this person. You all had some great insights, and I appreciate that. I particularly appreciate the comments from folks who have known people in similar living situations. My therapist pointed out that if I continued seeing them, I'd likely get attached, and ending it would be harder. I also realized that if I dated this person, it would be with the hope of them changing, and it's never good to start a relationship wanting someone to change.
So it's a little bit sad now, because I do like this person, and I hoped there was potential, but it's much easier to end something when it's a little bit sad rather than when I'm much more invested.
posted by woolsocks at 4:53 PM on February 14, 2023 [4 favorites]
Response by poster: A follow up almost a year later: I definitely made the right call with this person. We have stayed in touch, loosely, and I think they are struggling with a few things right now, including alcoholism ("drinking too much," they told me). I have compassion for them, but I definitely made the right call in terms of not dating them further.
posted by woolsocks at 3:16 PM on January 16 [3 favorites]
posted by woolsocks at 3:16 PM on January 16 [3 favorites]
This thread is closed to new comments.
Tell them what you enjoyed about spending time with them and the reasons that their living situation threw up red flags for them.
If you want to continue some kind of friendship or supportive relationship with them, I'd suggest figuring out what your boundaries are and communicating that clearly.
posted by katmai at 6:17 PM on February 10, 2023 [1 favorite]