Questioning the Solar Salesdroid
February 10, 2023 1:44 PM Subscribe
What questions should I pose to a solar panel salesdroid?
Today, I allowed myself to receive a quote on putting solar panels on my house. The salesdroid will be here Monday. FWIW, I have absolutely no intention of purchasing any panels, but I figured it does no harm to get a quote.
Assuming I don’t want to come-off as completely uninformed (though, I pretty much am), what questions should I ask the droid? Are there details that might be deal-breakers, or indicate they sell a good/shitty product? Options that should be available? Things you wish you had known before you bought your panels?
I saw this Ask thread, but thought I’d see if things had changed much since then.
Thanks.
Today, I allowed myself to receive a quote on putting solar panels on my house. The salesdroid will be here Monday. FWIW, I have absolutely no intention of purchasing any panels, but I figured it does no harm to get a quote.
Assuming I don’t want to come-off as completely uninformed (though, I pretty much am), what questions should I ask the droid? Are there details that might be deal-breakers, or indicate they sell a good/shitty product? Options that should be available? Things you wish you had known before you bought your panels?
I saw this Ask thread, but thought I’d see if things had changed much since then.
Thanks.
Best answer: How big should it be, why should it be that big, and what do they guarantee in terms of output during their warranty period. My panels have a warranty, but I got a bullshit answer from the service company when I asked why my panels were not performing to the guaranteed level, so that last one sticks in mind.
Also ask them what the local electricity company pays for your spare electricity. They should know the answer to this, even if you could theoretically go look it up yourself. Bad rates for buying your surplus would mean you'd want to store it in a battery and use it yourself when it's dark. Good ones mean you can sell it to the grid and buy it back later when you need it. This should affect their system recommendations, and they should be able to tell you the how and the why.
And I would strongly recommend a microinverter system, because it fails more gracefully, but see what they recommend and ask them why, again.
posted by How much is that froggie in the window at 3:22 PM on February 10, 2023 [3 favorites]
Also ask them what the local electricity company pays for your spare electricity. They should know the answer to this, even if you could theoretically go look it up yourself. Bad rates for buying your surplus would mean you'd want to store it in a battery and use it yourself when it's dark. Good ones mean you can sell it to the grid and buy it back later when you need it. This should affect their system recommendations, and they should be able to tell you the how and the why.
And I would strongly recommend a microinverter system, because it fails more gracefully, but see what they recommend and ask them why, again.
posted by How much is that froggie in the window at 3:22 PM on February 10, 2023 [3 favorites]
Best answer: We got a quote from a local company and I was impressed when the salesperson started by expressing concern about the environmental impact of replacing our perfectly good roof early, versus risking having issues replacing it from under the system in ~10 years (we had honestly not even considered the roof). They readily pointed out that at ten years we'd still be only about halfway to breaking even on their system, and that part of the "problem" with that was our low energy consumption and lovely large trees that shade our house for large portions of the day. They actually suggested buying into our municipal power company's co-op solar fields rather than getting personal panels, if our goal was to meaningfully support solar financially, versus energy independence or what have you. It was just a very nuanced and reasonable conversation with someone who clearly knew a lot about the topic and cared about the actual purpose of what they were doing, not at all a sales pitch in the usual sense. Although we didn't buy from them for all the reasons described, I'd certainly expect that others have excellent experiences with them, and after that lovely chat, I'd be even more resistant than I otherwise am to any company that seemed to be primarily focused on selling.
posted by teremala at 3:23 PM on February 10, 2023 [6 favorites]
posted by teremala at 3:23 PM on February 10, 2023 [6 favorites]
Best answer: "What's the recommended angle for the panels to make them the most efficient?"
(Usually between 30 and 45 degrees, depending on your latitude. Ideally it's the same as your latitude.)
posted by luckynerd at 3:49 PM on February 10, 2023 [1 favorite]
(Usually between 30 and 45 degrees, depending on your latitude. Ideally it's the same as your latitude.)
posted by luckynerd at 3:49 PM on February 10, 2023 [1 favorite]
Best answer: Good for you!
* get a roof job first if your roof is within 20 years of needing it
* buy (or finance with a loan you control) but don't lease: many bad stories about lease problems.
* think about the future: if you do go Solar, it's not impossible you are the kind of person to make other efficiency upgrades: replace your gasoline car with an EV, natural gas furnace with a heat pump, gas or electric water heater with a heat pump, etc. All of these can increase electricity consumption a lot (by reducing fossil fuel usage). Oversizing now is not necessarily bad. Also, some utilities try to penalize you if you want to add more solar later rather than now.
* solar panels are very good and very cheap, but they are not all the same. If, for example, you have limited roof space, you might want to pay more for higher efficiency panels.
* if your roof to sun sightline is not perfectly clear, you may have "shading" issues, in which case you may want solar optimizers - this is a system where each solar panel generates the most watts it can, even if other panels are in the shade. Costs more, but may be worth it. If you have no shading issues, then probably not needed.
posted by soylent00FF00 at 5:28 PM on February 10, 2023
* get a roof job first if your roof is within 20 years of needing it
* buy (or finance with a loan you control) but don't lease: many bad stories about lease problems.
* think about the future: if you do go Solar, it's not impossible you are the kind of person to make other efficiency upgrades: replace your gasoline car with an EV, natural gas furnace with a heat pump, gas or electric water heater with a heat pump, etc. All of these can increase electricity consumption a lot (by reducing fossil fuel usage). Oversizing now is not necessarily bad. Also, some utilities try to penalize you if you want to add more solar later rather than now.
* solar panels are very good and very cheap, but they are not all the same. If, for example, you have limited roof space, you might want to pay more for higher efficiency panels.
* if your roof to sun sightline is not perfectly clear, you may have "shading" issues, in which case you may want solar optimizers - this is a system where each solar panel generates the most watts it can, even if other panels are in the shade. Costs more, but may be worth it. If you have no shading issues, then probably not needed.
posted by soylent00FF00 at 5:28 PM on February 10, 2023
Best answer: I did this once on our old house, and am in the process of doing it again on our new house.
- I would expect them to want to focus a lot on the savings you'll get (which are real) - but what you really need to know is the total upfront cost. They'll tell you about the 30% tax credit; that's awesome, and you can get it from any installer - so why is their package so great?
- Do you want battery storage? This is not cheap, but nice if you're worried about blackouts, or in a place where you will generate more power than you can use at certain portions of the day and your utility won't pay much to buy it back.
- What kind of panels are they providing, what's the KwH, and what fraction of your electrical usage will that be? What's the warranty on the panels and the inverters? (should be 25 years)
- As they talk about layout on your roof, are they looking at google earth photos, or will they come out to inspect it in person? Do those photos look up to date? Things like tree branches, chimneys, and other obstructions can affect placement.
- Is this the company that does the installation, or do they subcontract that out to someone else? Do they do installs in your town/city often? Here in San Francisco, a deep familiarity with the Planning department and its byzantine structures is very helpful, so I have a strong preference for local companies.
- What about your electric? Can they assess the state of your current breaker box? Does it need upgrading, or an increase in capacity? Does your house need a new meter? (again, someone who's familiar with your local utility will be a big plus if this is the case?)
- And what about the roof? If your roof is older, you might want/need to do some patching/repair before putting panels on. Do they have roofers that they work with?
Good luck!
posted by chbrooks at 5:33 PM on February 10, 2023
- I would expect them to want to focus a lot on the savings you'll get (which are real) - but what you really need to know is the total upfront cost. They'll tell you about the 30% tax credit; that's awesome, and you can get it from any installer - so why is their package so great?
- Do you want battery storage? This is not cheap, but nice if you're worried about blackouts, or in a place where you will generate more power than you can use at certain portions of the day and your utility won't pay much to buy it back.
- What kind of panels are they providing, what's the KwH, and what fraction of your electrical usage will that be? What's the warranty on the panels and the inverters? (should be 25 years)
- As they talk about layout on your roof, are they looking at google earth photos, or will they come out to inspect it in person? Do those photos look up to date? Things like tree branches, chimneys, and other obstructions can affect placement.
- Is this the company that does the installation, or do they subcontract that out to someone else? Do they do installs in your town/city often? Here in San Francisco, a deep familiarity with the Planning department and its byzantine structures is very helpful, so I have a strong preference for local companies.
- What about your electric? Can they assess the state of your current breaker box? Does it need upgrading, or an increase in capacity? Does your house need a new meter? (again, someone who's familiar with your local utility will be a big plus if this is the case?)
- And what about the roof? If your roof is older, you might want/need to do some patching/repair before putting panels on. Do they have roofers that they work with?
Good luck!
posted by chbrooks at 5:33 PM on February 10, 2023
Best answer: I considered putting in a solar setup, but there's a building that shades my house from about 11am to 2pm. Many cities have bylaws which state that a building which shades your property has to buy the right to obstruct your sunlight. Ours does not, and if you're in an area where there's a possibility of outsized development - and our city encourages this - you should look into these laws. It's something your salesman should know.
People with large properties often have the panels installed at ground level, for ease of installation and access.
You should also talk about the age of your house. Mine is old enough to have rafters and a ridge board. I'd think about having it looked at before I put any additional weight on it.
It probably makes a difference how far north you live, because if you get snow you want it to slide off. Access for cleaning is important, too - a friend had to troubleshoot a failing solar installation. His solution was a spray bottle of windex and a roll of paper towels. I don't know what people do when the panels are on their roof, but I can't see this not being an issue.
I had my roof replaced fifteen years ago. After a lot of agonizing we paid twice the price for shingles and got a metal roof. The shingles would have been replaced by now, but the metal is still fine. I can't imagine why anyone would make a roof out of something they know will have to be replaced not too far in the future, and again at intervals. If I was getting solar panels mounted on my roof I'd definitely look into metal. I assume that replacing a shingled roof means demounting the panels and reinstalling them, which is bound to be expensive.
So you should talk to your sales guy about all of this. I'd also talk about batteries. They add to the initial cost, but I suspect they save money. I know a lot of areas will pay more for electricity than they sell it for, but I think deals like that are going away, so you might as well save your own power.
I don't know if anyone mentioned this (and most of the replies here are very good) but you need some kind of disconnect so that if the power goes out you're not putting your electricity onto the line where it might fry an unsuspecting repair man. I'm tempted to say that this obviously comes with a system, but it might be an extra.
I notice that everyone here, myself included, is answering as though you're buying a system, even though you say you aren't. You should still be prepared, because there are some good salesmen out there, and also because I think it's a good idea.
posted by AugustusCrunch at 8:04 PM on February 10, 2023
People with large properties often have the panels installed at ground level, for ease of installation and access.
You should also talk about the age of your house. Mine is old enough to have rafters and a ridge board. I'd think about having it looked at before I put any additional weight on it.
It probably makes a difference how far north you live, because if you get snow you want it to slide off. Access for cleaning is important, too - a friend had to troubleshoot a failing solar installation. His solution was a spray bottle of windex and a roll of paper towels. I don't know what people do when the panels are on their roof, but I can't see this not being an issue.
I had my roof replaced fifteen years ago. After a lot of agonizing we paid twice the price for shingles and got a metal roof. The shingles would have been replaced by now, but the metal is still fine. I can't imagine why anyone would make a roof out of something they know will have to be replaced not too far in the future, and again at intervals. If I was getting solar panels mounted on my roof I'd definitely look into metal. I assume that replacing a shingled roof means demounting the panels and reinstalling them, which is bound to be expensive.
So you should talk to your sales guy about all of this. I'd also talk about batteries. They add to the initial cost, but I suspect they save money. I know a lot of areas will pay more for electricity than they sell it for, but I think deals like that are going away, so you might as well save your own power.
I don't know if anyone mentioned this (and most of the replies here are very good) but you need some kind of disconnect so that if the power goes out you're not putting your electricity onto the line where it might fry an unsuspecting repair man. I'm tempted to say that this obviously comes with a system, but it might be an extra.
I notice that everyone here, myself included, is answering as though you're buying a system, even though you say you aren't. You should still be prepared, because there are some good salesmen out there, and also because I think it's a good idea.
posted by AugustusCrunch at 8:04 PM on February 10, 2023
Best answer: I see the previous thread you linked to had someone talking about getting quotes through EnergySage, and I cannot second enough how much better an experience that was. Get a dozen quotes without sitting through a single sales talk. And you can ask questions of a 3rd party not looking to sell you anything, for free!
So I guess I’d say use that, but if you have a salesperson out ask them what they think might be unique about the install for your house and light/shade/roof angle specifically.
posted by deludingmyself at 8:50 AM on February 11, 2023 [1 favorite]
So I guess I’d say use that, but if you have a salesperson out ask them what they think might be unique about the install for your house and light/shade/roof angle specifically.
posted by deludingmyself at 8:50 AM on February 11, 2023 [1 favorite]
Response by poster: Thanks all! A lot of great advice and tips! I’ll definitely use them...next time.
My wife and I discussed it over the weekend and came to the determination that we just aren’t in the financial position to do something as major as a solar installation right now. So, there was no good reason to go through a sales pitch if the bottom line was always going to be a “no.”
As luck would have it, the solar company texted me this morning, reminding me of the appointment, and asking if the time was still good for me. I took that opening to ask that the appointment be canceled. They were surprisingly gracious and understanding, with no hardball attempts to get me to reschedule or whatnot.
So, there was no salesperson at my door today. Maybe someday.
Thanks again for all the great answers!
posted by Thorzdad at 1:57 PM on February 13, 2023
My wife and I discussed it over the weekend and came to the determination that we just aren’t in the financial position to do something as major as a solar installation right now. So, there was no good reason to go through a sales pitch if the bottom line was always going to be a “no.”
As luck would have it, the solar company texted me this morning, reminding me of the appointment, and asking if the time was still good for me. I took that opening to ask that the appointment be canceled. They were surprisingly gracious and understanding, with no hardball attempts to get me to reschedule or whatnot.
So, there was no salesperson at my door today. Maybe someday.
Thanks again for all the great answers!
posted by Thorzdad at 1:57 PM on February 13, 2023
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They had a nightmare getting any problems fixed, questions answered, billing and payments were opaque and/or not happening. They finally bought out the last of their lease so that they could actually get broken parts replaced.
If the salesdroid is mostly excited about their Amazing Product and Wonderful Financing Model, I would get very suspicious that you are being sold a solar powered financial product instead of a solar panel system.
posted by ivan ivanych samovar at 2:10 PM on February 10, 2023 [4 favorites]