Would you like to help me buy a computer within my snowflake parameters?

January 5, 2023 9:30 AM

I'd like to buy a physically small/medium sized computer to plug into my living room TV. I think I want it to be Linux based but I have not bought a non-Apple computer this century, so I have a lot of unknown unknowns.

My main desire is to have access to a web browser on my 20 year old TV, some storage space for photos and videos, and maybe play some indie games from Steam/itch.io. I asked previously about streaming options and am now exploring spending (a lot) more money and getting a lot more functionality.

Ideally I'd spend under $1,000 (US). Part of me wants to just get a nice new Mac Mini M1 ($899) that would do everything I want and more, and (I think) last for a good while.

However, I am increasingly sour on Apple, and I like the idea of teaching my kid (and re-learning) more Linux/DIY/OSS approach to computing. So it would be good to have a box that has more room to grow than the Mac Mini, without being a full-sized tower, and in theory I thought I could spend a good chunk less for similar performance. It would be nice to be more in the $500-600 range. I also have this notion that the customization available with Linux may help it play nicer on my low-res screen.

When I look e.g. at Newegg for mini-tower pcs I see a bunch of options. Unfortunately, none of them are much cheaper than the mac mini, most seem to be more powerful than I need (i.e. sold as "gaming PCs"), and they mostly look like they were designed by/for teenage FPS players. When I look at the cheaper/lower performers (eg Thinkcentre), they seem to be not that much cheaper, less power and upgrade options than my 2016 Macbook, and/or don't have HDMI, which seems mandatory for my (admittedly abstruse) use case of plugging it in to my old TV with the best possible resolution using the HDMI to Component video adapter that I already have.

TLDR: can you recommend a model or product line of small PC that is reliable, upgradable, has HDMI out for audio and video, and doesn't have a bunch of "cool" lights all over the exterior? Or feel free to convince me to get the Mac mini, point out problems with my thinking, etc., that's fine too. Thanks!

posted by SaltySalticid to Computers & Internet (18 answers total)

Oops - ignore - I now see that you want "room to grow". A NUC won't get you there. As a little PC to hook to a TV that is nearly invisible and unobtrusive - it is perfect, but expandable is not it's best quality.

You want an Intel NUC - similar size as a mini (maybe even smaller, but a little taller) - and fairly powerful, plus DIY/upgradable. There are NUC knock-offs as well, typically search for "mini pc". Myself, I have put together 3 for my immediate family and they were all happy with them years later.

One thing to note - just because your TV has HDMI input, things might not always line-up perfectly (overscan/underscan) - and some things may get cutoff at the top or bottom of the screen.
posted by rozcakj at 9:38 AM on January 5, 2023 [2 favorites]

If you don't mind installing Linux from "bare metal" I'd recommend a NUC. They're a bit like Intel's Mac Mini. If you don't have particualrly strenuous requirements, you could probably get away with one that's several generations old--currently I think the NUC 8 might be a good balance between still usable and not super expensive.
posted by pullayup at 9:40 AM on January 5, 2023 [3 favorites]

Pick up a tiny refurb Lenovo desktop from Newegg for $160. That little computer has m.2, 2.5" sata, and two slots for laptop style ram; so, if you need to upgrade to 16gb of ram for some reason, you could. If you needed more storage than would fit in a 2.5", a USB external hard drive would be plenty fast for a media computer.

Add in a Displayport to HDMI adapter, a nice wireless keyboard with a touchpad, and you should be in business for about $200.

Windows is so much less painful than Linux if all you want to do is casually browse the internet and watch Netflix; I would suggest giving Windows a go for a couple weeks, but if you do want to swap over to Linux Lenovo has good support.

This is more or less exactly my media setup down to the Display Port to HDMI adapter, except my tiny Lenovo is 5 or so years old at this point.
posted by gregr at 10:20 AM on January 5, 2023 [8 favorites]

Pretty much what gregr said - a refurb of one of these units should serve you pretty well. Cruise around on NewEgg, Amazon, and eBay and you should find a lot of units that would be plenty powerful.

A new ThinkCentre is going to be spendy but the refurbs will run Linux like a champ and last several years. With your budget I'd go for something more like this one that has 32GB of RAM and a recent-ish CPU. Also, check Crucial's site or another for potential upgrades to see how much headroom you have for new RAM and storage options.
posted by jzb at 10:34 AM on January 5, 2023 [1 favorite]

I basically have an old Dell mid-tower serving as my dad's "TV browser PC". He just surfs Youtube on it with one of those cheap wireless keyboard / touchpad combos. It still runs Windows though.
posted by kschang at 10:42 AM on January 5, 2023 [1 favorite]

If you prefer something that looks more like a Roku or AppleTV in form factor, check out Minix. We have had a few older models in my workplace for a while as single-use machines, they look very much like your typical streaming TV box but some models have pretty decent specs. Not sure how well they'd run Linux though, I haven't tried to repurpose one to find out...
posted by caution live frogs at 11:06 AM on January 5, 2023 [1 favorite]

(Seems the model we have is also still available, and is like 1/3rd the cost of the one I linked)
posted by caution live frogs at 11:09 AM on January 5, 2023 [1 favorite]

Ah. Looks like it is doable. Anyway, for $200-ish that's an option.
posted by caution live frogs at 11:14 AM on January 5, 2023 [1 favorite]

I recently got a MeLe Quieter2 as a media server. I got the lowest configuration which is admittedly a bit sluggish from the GUI (though fine for what I'm using it for), but they have beefier ones including a Quieter3 line. The one I got cost around $150 and they range up to $400 or so. They are fanless and utterly silent, and smaller than my WiFi router. They come with Windows 11 but I see Ubuntu is no problem on them.
posted by kindall at 11:56 AM on January 5, 2023 [1 favorite]

I like the idea of teaching my kid (and re-learning) more Linux/DIY/OSS approach to computing

I'd honestly question this at least a little. Your kid's a five year old boy, yeah? (I went back and skimmed some of your old questions.) At a guess, he'll be doing stuff with computers in school pretty soon if he isn't already, unless you take an unorthodox approach to school, which is fine. It can be hard to learn multiple computer systems at once, even while fairly young, and Linux works really, really differently compared to the Macs or PCs he'll be using in the rest of the world.

This doesn't necessarily mean you shouldn't teach him Linux too—learning a totally different computer system together could be an awesome experience! But it is something to perhaps keep in mind, especially if your kid is easily frustrated or doesn't like when things change.
posted by spiderbeforesunset at 1:10 PM on January 5, 2023 [2 favorites]

Response by poster: Ha, yes my kid is young perhaps for Linux but I'll clarify that's more of a long term plan. I guess part of me was hoping to get something that would still be pretty usable (not asking much of it) for 5 years and hopefully more, but maybe that's too optimistic.

Great answers all, thanks and keep them coming :)
posted by SaltySalticid at 1:23 PM on January 5, 2023

Best answer: Would something like this work? System76 Meerkat?
posted by VyanSelei at 3:26 PM on January 5, 2023 [4 favorites]

You might find project TinyMiniMicro interesting. In addition ETA Prime channel has a fair amount of content covering gaming (usually from an emulation perspective) on mini pcs.
posted by oceano at 6:58 PM on January 5, 2023 [2 favorites]

In short, based on my own research (I haven't bought anything yet), it seems that the mini pc offerings from Lenovo / HP/ Dell are solid machines. They are often more expensive than the ones offered by newer entrants to the market, but they can be purchased used. These machines are almost always user upgradable and have excellent build quality. On the other hand mini pc offerings from lesser known brands are often cheaper when new. They may or may not be user upgradable. Their long term performance is unknown.

NUCs are a third mini pc option and are Intel only. Some NUCs are specifically designed for gaming, but they usually aren't cheap.

IMHO you can definitely get a mini pc in your price range to use as a media server. However, whether or not you can play games on your mini pc at your stated price point will depend on which games you want to play.
posted by oceano at 9:40 AM on January 6, 2023 [1 favorite]

How about building your own one, using a half-height case such as the Silverstone Milo ML06B?

You’ll be restricted on the size of some of the components (eg. graphics card and motherboard) but they are all standard and upgradable. In addition you’ll have something that is close in size to something that would normally sit under the TV.
posted by mr_silver at 1:50 AM on January 7, 2023 [1 favorite]

This is the sort of thing people often recommend a Raspberry Pi for. While they have been hard to get due to supply-chain issues, those are starting to lessen.
With a bit of diligence you can get one.
If you need extra storage, a usb hard drive can serve, or you can share files from another machine on the network.
posted by bug138 at 4:33 PM on January 7, 2023

Oh, and another characteristic you may want to consider is CPU architecture type (ARM vs x86). Not all (Linux) applications have native versions for both ARM and x86. For instance, Steam has no native Linux ARM client. While there is a workaround for Steam, there are fewer steps to run Steam games on a Linux machine with an x86 CPU than an ARM CPU. In sum, if you want to run Steam games on Linux, you may prefer to do it on an computer with x86 architecture. (A rasberry pi has an ARM processor).
posted by oceano at 3:03 PM on January 9, 2023 [2 favorites]

Response by poster: Thanks all, I decided to splurge a bit on the System76 Meerkat: it's pretty much exactly like a linux-native alternative to mac mini that can be upgraded more easily and (can) cost a good chunk less.

Very interesting to see all the interesting options out there, and very much appreciated!
posted by SaltySalticid at 6:57 AM on January 13, 2023