So how do I buy a desktop computer?
March 2, 2020 3:38 AM Subscribe
I've only ever owned laptops, with their tradeoffs in price, weight, and features. It seems like desktop computers are a whole different ballpark - which ones are good, how do I choose?
My needs:
* I'm a programmer working with resource intensive projects that require lots of RAM available to run virtual machines on Docker-- I generally just connect to work remotely, so having the big guns isn't critical, but I'd prefer having the option of working locally if I can, so ideally at least 16gb ram otherwise things will crash.
* I do computer art with a wacom tablet
* I do not do any gaming.
* Previous computers have always been too laggy to do real video editing although it's something I'm vaguely interested in.
In laptops I know the go to answer is refurbished lenovo (my own is still trucking after more than half a decade hard use). I know nothing about desktop computers, I've never bought one before. Which are reliable brands that are good value for their price, which models are best, which features are worth it?
My needs:
* I'm a programmer working with resource intensive projects that require lots of RAM available to run virtual machines on Docker-- I generally just connect to work remotely, so having the big guns isn't critical, but I'd prefer having the option of working locally if I can, so ideally at least 16gb ram otherwise things will crash.
* I do computer art with a wacom tablet
* I do not do any gaming.
* Previous computers have always been too laggy to do real video editing although it's something I'm vaguely interested in.
In laptops I know the go to answer is refurbished lenovo (my own is still trucking after more than half a decade hard use). I know nothing about desktop computers, I've never bought one before. Which are reliable brands that are good value for their price, which models are best, which features are worth it?
Just dig in at reviews at PC World, PC Mag, and CNet. It won't take long to zero in on the price and range of options that a little thought on your needs and desires will provide. Once you have a working list of candidates, Google and Amazon reviews can be helpful. It sounds like a bit of work, but even meager knowledge and education about this stuff saves time and money later.
posted by Chitownfats at 4:22 AM on March 2, 2020
posted by Chitownfats at 4:22 AM on March 2, 2020
If you're interested in building from parts, LogicalIncrements and PCPartPicker are invaluable resources for figuring out what will match your use-case.
posted by jozxyqk at 4:25 AM on March 2, 2020 [5 favorites]
posted by jozxyqk at 4:25 AM on March 2, 2020 [5 favorites]
In the same way that the go-to answer for laptops was a refurb lenovo in your use case, the go-to answer for desktops is to just build one but not from bleeding-edge parts (mostly).
I'm not in your world, but here's a build that looks like it would work for you. If you really need lots of cores, you'd probably want a 3950x and to look at x570 motherboard reviews with an eye towards power delivery. You might need more storage. Obvs you can do cheaper on all those parts if you're willing to risk refurb parts from newegg, which are a thing, or straight-up used parts from ebay.
The AMD chips don't have integrated graphics so you'll need a video card even if you're never gaming -- the one I picked there assumes that you might occasionally need a competent GPU for whatever, but if you're sure you won't you can get cheaper but honestly much below $100 you're looking at losing a lot for that next dollar of savings. Edit: if you're doing video editing, you'll likely want a competent GPU.
posted by GCU Sweet and Full of Grace at 4:50 AM on March 2, 2020 [1 favorite]
I'm not in your world, but here's a build that looks like it would work for you. If you really need lots of cores, you'd probably want a 3950x and to look at x570 motherboard reviews with an eye towards power delivery. You might need more storage. Obvs you can do cheaper on all those parts if you're willing to risk refurb parts from newegg, which are a thing, or straight-up used parts from ebay.
The AMD chips don't have integrated graphics so you'll need a video card even if you're never gaming -- the one I picked there assumes that you might occasionally need a competent GPU for whatever, but if you're sure you won't you can get cheaper but honestly much below $100 you're looking at losing a lot for that next dollar of savings. Edit: if you're doing video editing, you'll likely want a competent GPU.
posted by GCU Sweet and Full of Grace at 4:50 AM on March 2, 2020 [1 favorite]
Forgot to add: if you'd be working next to the machine and want it quiet, you'd probably want to replace the stock cooler the 2700x comes with with, well, whatever the biggest Noctua cooler is that'll fit in that case. And maybe swap out the case fans, but Fractal's are pretty okay.
posted by GCU Sweet and Full of Grace at 5:12 AM on March 2, 2020
posted by GCU Sweet and Full of Grace at 5:12 AM on March 2, 2020
Between video and the increasing numbers of tools and software that can use GPU, get (or reserve space) for an NVIDIA card.
Also pick a board that has room for memory expansion, more may not always be better so don't max out initially but it may become important depending on application tuning.
posted by sammyo at 5:35 AM on March 2, 2020
Also pick a board that has room for memory expansion, more may not always be better so don't max out initially but it may become important depending on application tuning.
posted by sammyo at 5:35 AM on March 2, 2020
Newegg has many refurbished desktops (I believe these are corporate trade-ins). This might do it for you.
posted by H21 at 5:40 AM on March 2, 2020 [1 favorite]
posted by H21 at 5:40 AM on March 2, 2020 [1 favorite]
Consider the IP implications of using your own computer for work. Generally speaking, the safest thing is to have one machine that work owns for work (and only work) and one that you own for personal stuff. It’s jurisdiction and employer dependent, but anything else can strengthen your employers claims to IP that you view as personally owned.
posted by caek at 6:35 AM on March 2, 2020 [3 favorites]
posted by caek at 6:35 AM on March 2, 2020 [3 favorites]
The BuildAPC subreddit has a lot of specific information if you're looking to build. The BuildAPCSales subreddit has, obviously, information on sales.
As a specific point of reference for LogicalIncrements that jozxyqk linked above, the $1500 level is enough to play pretty much all modern games at more-or-less max settings. You can build a decent non-gaming computer for half that. This is in the U.S., I understand electronics often cost more in other places.
I recommend building and not buying. Prebuilt computers often cost more and use substandard components, particularly a cheap power supply, which is one of the things you don't want to go cheap on.
posted by bright flowers at 6:43 AM on March 2, 2020
As a specific point of reference for LogicalIncrements that jozxyqk linked above, the $1500 level is enough to play pretty much all modern games at more-or-less max settings. You can build a decent non-gaming computer for half that. This is in the U.S., I understand electronics often cost more in other places.
I recommend building and not buying. Prebuilt computers often cost more and use substandard components, particularly a cheap power supply, which is one of the things you don't want to go cheap on.
posted by bright flowers at 6:43 AM on March 2, 2020
What's your price range and what OS are you planning to use? Since you mention the Wacom tablet and computer art, I'm going to guess you are using Windows? (Not that you cannot do this on Linux, just not as common.)
Here's how I buy desktop computers and I've been building and buying them since 1995.
- Get more RAM than you need today, or at least the capacity to add more in the future. 16GB is, IMO, insufficient. I'd get a desktop with at least 32GB and the capacity to go to 64GB.
- Get an SSD with more capacity than you think you need right now. If you have 256GB on a laptop today, get 512GB. If you have 512GB on your laptop, get 1TB.
- Don't get the top of the line CPU, get a CPU that's one or two steps back from the top of the line. These days apps are going to be more constrained by available RAM and speed of getting information to/from disk than by the speed of the CPU (on average).
- I'd get a video card with at least 4GB of RAM, even if you're not playing games.
- I would go Dell or Lenovo, maybe ASUS, or build my own. Another option would be the Intel NUC or other mini-PC systems, but you'll have to choose very carefully to get one with enough video oomph for editing.
If you've never built a computer it's a good experience to have, and these days it's a lot easier than it was when I first did it. You will probably spend more than you would on a big box maker PC, but you can choose better components.
posted by jzb at 6:57 AM on March 2, 2020 [1 favorite]
Here's how I buy desktop computers and I've been building and buying them since 1995.
- Get more RAM than you need today, or at least the capacity to add more in the future. 16GB is, IMO, insufficient. I'd get a desktop with at least 32GB and the capacity to go to 64GB.
- Get an SSD with more capacity than you think you need right now. If you have 256GB on a laptop today, get 512GB. If you have 512GB on your laptop, get 1TB.
- Don't get the top of the line CPU, get a CPU that's one or two steps back from the top of the line. These days apps are going to be more constrained by available RAM and speed of getting information to/from disk than by the speed of the CPU (on average).
- I'd get a video card with at least 4GB of RAM, even if you're not playing games.
- I would go Dell or Lenovo, maybe ASUS, or build my own. Another option would be the Intel NUC or other mini-PC systems, but you'll have to choose very carefully to get one with enough video oomph for editing.
If you've never built a computer it's a good experience to have, and these days it's a lot easier than it was when I first did it. You will probably spend more than you would on a big box maker PC, but you can choose better components.
posted by jzb at 6:57 AM on March 2, 2020 [1 favorite]
This vendor doesn't have this specific machine in stock right now, but this is the desktop I bought in January, basically meaning to tick all the "pretty good" boxes - not the newest chipset, not the most RAM (but upgradeable to 64gb), not the most hard drive (but ssd); the 3 monitors in 4K was fairly important to me and I ruled out any that didn't do at least 2 monitors/4K. It has no wifi card in it but I'm actually pretty happy with it on ethernet for now.
I suffered weeks of decision paralysis over this, which is time I wish I could get back now. The hairs I was splitting were pretty fine.
posted by Lyn Never at 7:51 AM on March 2, 2020 [2 favorites]
I suffered weeks of decision paralysis over this, which is time I wish I could get back now. The hairs I was splitting were pretty fine.
posted by Lyn Never at 7:51 AM on March 2, 2020 [2 favorites]
Newegg has many refurbished desktops
If you're committed to the used/refurb market, for your use case I'd recommend looking at used/refurb workstations rather than desktops. Desktops are very likely to give you a 4-core 4-thread i5, which seems like it would be pretty painful for heavy VM use.
posted by GCU Sweet and Full of Grace at 8:09 AM on March 2, 2020 [1 favorite]
If you're committed to the used/refurb market, for your use case I'd recommend looking at used/refurb workstations rather than desktops. Desktops are very likely to give you a 4-core 4-thread i5, which seems like it would be pretty painful for heavy VM use.
posted by GCU Sweet and Full of Grace at 8:09 AM on March 2, 2020 [1 favorite]
I'm in charge of buying the desktop PCs for my workplace. I get them from a local "mom and pop" computer store that builds them to order. The owners are great: their prices are reasonable, they never upsell, they'll work with you on determining the specs you'll need, they'll install the OS for you, and they honor their warranties. It's convenient to have a local place where you can bring the computer if you have any issues with it. If I were in the market for a personal desktop, I would buy it from them. I think most cities probably have a store like this.
posted by alex1965 at 8:47 AM on March 2, 2020 [1 favorite]
posted by alex1965 at 8:47 AM on March 2, 2020 [1 favorite]
The desktop market is quite different from the laptop market, so it's harder to recommend prebuilt brands and models. I think that building a desktop would be the best choice. Logical Increments is the most useful site for this, since they make sure all the parts in a 'tier' are compatible with each other, which could otherwise cause problems in some cases. I'd look around the Great to Superb tier ranges. I'd go on the high side for RAM, SSD and HDD - 16 GB, 1 TB and 2 TB vs the base they have which are half that.
If you want to do a little more optimization, their builds are focused on gaming which means they spend more on the graphics card than you need; you can divert more money into the CPU (as well as RAM/SSD/HDD) but then you'll be looking at perhaps going down a tier or two in graphics and up one in CPU, which means you need to look into compatibility a little more; PCPartPicker can help there.
And plus one to a local mom and pop computer store; locally, I use Memory Express which is filled with actual computer people. They helpfully attached the heat sink fan to the CPU when I bought my current PC's parts.
posted by Homeboy Trouble at 10:03 AM on March 2, 2020 [1 favorite]
If you want to do a little more optimization, their builds are focused on gaming which means they spend more on the graphics card than you need; you can divert more money into the CPU (as well as RAM/SSD/HDD) but then you'll be looking at perhaps going down a tier or two in graphics and up one in CPU, which means you need to look into compatibility a little more; PCPartPicker can help there.
And plus one to a local mom and pop computer store; locally, I use Memory Express which is filled with actual computer people. They helpfully attached the heat sink fan to the CPU when I bought my current PC's parts.
posted by Homeboy Trouble at 10:03 AM on March 2, 2020 [1 favorite]
In general, say no to gaming machines. Games are more GPU bound than CPU bound. You can have a good gaming rig that isn't up to snuff for running multiple VMs all at the same time.
Because $WORK, I've had half a dozen Dell workstations over the years. Go for the small-business line instead of the consumer line. The business line has that use technology that's a couple of years old but proven reliable and better warranty options. The consumer side is a bit more along latest and greatest and a bit lower build quality. Go more workstation than desktop for things like VMs. Desktops are for managers doing a bunch of Microsoft Office stuff. Workstations are for developers.
Second the warning about mixing work and personal on the same computer. I did the opposite and let work buy all my computers and had no personal machine. It's a bit iffy when side projects are done on work resources.
I built my workstation about 4 years ago with the almost best/latest stuff. Nice tower with lots of bays, motherboard with plenty of slots and disk availability, an i7 that had the virtualization features, only 16M ram because upgrade as needed. I've had half a dozen VMs running on that machine at times. But it is like your remote usage, I just connect to it from my laptop and treat it like a server.
I'd dig into the specs on that work machine you remote into to get a ballpark on what sort of machine you want at home.
posted by zengargoyle at 1:45 PM on March 2, 2020
Because $WORK, I've had half a dozen Dell workstations over the years. Go for the small-business line instead of the consumer line. The business line has that use technology that's a couple of years old but proven reliable and better warranty options. The consumer side is a bit more along latest and greatest and a bit lower build quality. Go more workstation than desktop for things like VMs. Desktops are for managers doing a bunch of Microsoft Office stuff. Workstations are for developers.
Second the warning about mixing work and personal on the same computer. I did the opposite and let work buy all my computers and had no personal machine. It's a bit iffy when side projects are done on work resources.
I built my workstation about 4 years ago with the almost best/latest stuff. Nice tower with lots of bays, motherboard with plenty of slots and disk availability, an i7 that had the virtualization features, only 16M ram because upgrade as needed. I've had half a dozen VMs running on that machine at times. But it is like your remote usage, I just connect to it from my laptop and treat it like a server.
I'd dig into the specs on that work machine you remote into to get a ballpark on what sort of machine you want at home.
posted by zengargoyle at 1:45 PM on March 2, 2020
I bought a refurbed HP Z2 mini G3 workstation just a bit over 2 years ago - it has a low-end Xeon, and memory maxed out to 32GB (I bought it with maxed out RAM because it uses ECC which can be costly to source later). It's even got a low end workstation graphics card (an NVIDIA Quadro), so it'll do better than onboard Intel graphics, though I'm sure it'll still choke on recent games. I love that it's small (8.5" x 8.5" x 2.3") and can drive 4 monitors. Got room for an M.2, and a SATA 2.5 drive. I believe the more recent iterations of this model even give you choices with replaceable MXM video cards. It only cost me $850 too.
posted by Calloused_Foot at 3:42 PM on March 2, 2020
posted by Calloused_Foot at 3:42 PM on March 2, 2020
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posted by Ferrari328 at 4:06 AM on March 2, 2020