Practising clarinet woes
December 4, 2022 12:10 PM Subscribe
Am I struggling with cognitive speed and if yes, can I improve it?
I'm struggling when practising long(ish) fast passages (e.g. 1 full bar of 16th notes at tempo 150 + 1 bar break, repeated with different notes 4 times). I can play the 4 notes on each beat in close to the desired tempo when I stop afterwards - pause briefly - and start again. So it's not my fingering. But when I try to play all of it, it's a mess. (I finger one note while still playing another, etc..)
I tried playing it a lot slower which works well, but I have been doing that for months now, and I'm not exceeding a certain speed (I think 100 on a good day). It feels like there is a processing speed limit in my brain, which prevents me from going faster. When I pause after each set of 4 (then played at 140), my mind can catch up / process, and proceed.
I tried to improve my "processing speed" by just reading the music along to a recording, and even there, I struggle (I think, it's obviously not as noticeable there - at slower passages, my mind conjures up the feeling of the keys, but at this speed, I just blank).
My questions are:
Have you as a musician (or otherwise) experienced this? If yes, what helped you improve? Do you think that this is even my problem here?
Is there any psychological / learning methods which I could study?
Thanks a lot in advance!
PS just in case it's relevant as context: I used to play clarinet as a child for about 5 years, left off at 18 and picked it up again 9 months ago at 36. I practise approx 1,5 hrs on 5 days per week, plus 1 hr lesson and 2 hours orchestra practise. I play first clarinet, which was a huge stretch (still is, in many ways), but I used that to motivate me. I improved a lot already.
The example above is Concert Suite from The Polar Express, the fast bit starts here.
PPS My teacher just recommends to practise more, which I do, but I like trying different avenues. :)
I'm struggling when practising long(ish) fast passages (e.g. 1 full bar of 16th notes at tempo 150 + 1 bar break, repeated with different notes 4 times). I can play the 4 notes on each beat in close to the desired tempo when I stop afterwards - pause briefly - and start again. So it's not my fingering. But when I try to play all of it, it's a mess. (I finger one note while still playing another, etc..)
I tried playing it a lot slower which works well, but I have been doing that for months now, and I'm not exceeding a certain speed (I think 100 on a good day). It feels like there is a processing speed limit in my brain, which prevents me from going faster. When I pause after each set of 4 (then played at 140), my mind can catch up / process, and proceed.
I tried to improve my "processing speed" by just reading the music along to a recording, and even there, I struggle (I think, it's obviously not as noticeable there - at slower passages, my mind conjures up the feeling of the keys, but at this speed, I just blank).
My questions are:
Have you as a musician (or otherwise) experienced this? If yes, what helped you improve? Do you think that this is even my problem here?
Is there any psychological / learning methods which I could study?
Thanks a lot in advance!
PS just in case it's relevant as context: I used to play clarinet as a child for about 5 years, left off at 18 and picked it up again 9 months ago at 36. I practise approx 1,5 hrs on 5 days per week, plus 1 hr lesson and 2 hours orchestra practise. I play first clarinet, which was a huge stretch (still is, in many ways), but I used that to motivate me. I improved a lot already.
The example above is Concert Suite from The Polar Express, the fast bit starts here.
PPS My teacher just recommends to practise more, which I do, but I like trying different avenues. :)
Best answer: As a long time music teacher who *hates* "practice more" as advice (second only to "focus!" in terms of combining faux-profundity with something totally non-actionable):
Frequently the solution here is to be much more meticulous when you're slow - demand from yourself that you get an A+ every time you play it (eg, little nagging mental question marks are not allowed even if notes come out fine, every note speaks immediately, evenly, in tune, right sound, music is being made, etc). Get the A+ at any tempo (even if ludicrously, humblingly slow) and work from there. Almost all the time, when somebody finds a hitch advancing from (say) 100 to 110, it's because some little nagging issue showed up at 90 and they kept getting faster without settling it down first. If progress seems impossible that might indicate that this same method should be applied to something more fundamental, like scales in a relevant key. And yes, building on the earlier comment, play the whole passage at the same tempo, even if some parts become super easy - one of the things you're training is the consistency of the whole passage.
It's very time consuming, frequently humbling and ridiculously slow, but it has the advantage of being a process you can actually execute. Most successful pros I know don't think of themselves as the most talented of their conservatory class, even though they might be the only one making a living 20 years later by playing, but as the most stubborn and persistent, specifically because of stuff like this.
posted by range at 12:40 PM on December 4, 2022 [14 favorites]
Frequently the solution here is to be much more meticulous when you're slow - demand from yourself that you get an A+ every time you play it (eg, little nagging mental question marks are not allowed even if notes come out fine, every note speaks immediately, evenly, in tune, right sound, music is being made, etc). Get the A+ at any tempo (even if ludicrously, humblingly slow) and work from there. Almost all the time, when somebody finds a hitch advancing from (say) 100 to 110, it's because some little nagging issue showed up at 90 and they kept getting faster without settling it down first. If progress seems impossible that might indicate that this same method should be applied to something more fundamental, like scales in a relevant key. And yes, building on the earlier comment, play the whole passage at the same tempo, even if some parts become super easy - one of the things you're training is the consistency of the whole passage.
It's very time consuming, frequently humbling and ridiculously slow, but it has the advantage of being a process you can actually execute. Most successful pros I know don't think of themselves as the most talented of their conservatory class, even though they might be the only one making a living 20 years later by playing, but as the most stubborn and persistent, specifically because of stuff like this.
posted by range at 12:40 PM on December 4, 2022 [14 favorites]
Best answer: There are some good YouTube videos on instrument practicing technique. You may be able to improve faster by changing your method of practicing.
By practicing one bar at a time always, you are teaching yourself to stop after every bar, while not training on the task of stringing those parts together. It makes sense that when you string them together you then struggle.
I second the above advice to go as ludicrously slow as necessary, but practice playing in the way you actually would perform the piece. Try using a metronome to make sure you're not stopping or slowing down when you hit a snag. Then, identify the sticking points, and target those specifically.
If the sticking point is between two bars, you can practice just the difficult transitions then try everything again together.
I doubt this has to do with cognitive processing speed, and I think it's more likely practicing technique or other technical fundamentals (music reading, scales) that are the issue.
posted by lookoutbelow at 12:45 PM on December 4, 2022 [2 favorites]
By practicing one bar at a time always, you are teaching yourself to stop after every bar, while not training on the task of stringing those parts together. It makes sense that when you string them together you then struggle.
I second the above advice to go as ludicrously slow as necessary, but practice playing in the way you actually would perform the piece. Try using a metronome to make sure you're not stopping or slowing down when you hit a snag. Then, identify the sticking points, and target those specifically.
If the sticking point is between two bars, you can practice just the difficult transitions then try everything again together.
I doubt this has to do with cognitive processing speed, and I think it's more likely practicing technique or other technical fundamentals (music reading, scales) that are the issue.
posted by lookoutbelow at 12:45 PM on December 4, 2022 [2 favorites]
If there's something wrong with your technique the extra hours might not help all that much. To learn something like this quickly takes a certain depth of technique and experience.
Suggest you practice the specific bits more slowly, with more variations, like way more! How many can you invent? And also do more general practice (lots of scales and studies). It takes time! "Time, Patience, and Intelligent Work".
As for processing speed, if you are still looking for individual notes every time you play it, you aren't there yet. (Assuming you don't have to sight-read it in public. Sight-reading is a separate skill in its own right.)
Reading: Look at shapes. Like reading whole words. And playing the groups needs to be "under the fingers" ie. the fingers will remember it for you, eventually!
Remember Rachmaninov's advice: Slow practice is the best. And never practice your mistakes.
posted by Coaticass at 1:02 PM on December 4, 2022
Suggest you practice the specific bits more slowly, with more variations, like way more! How many can you invent? And also do more general practice (lots of scales and studies). It takes time! "Time, Patience, and Intelligent Work".
As for processing speed, if you are still looking for individual notes every time you play it, you aren't there yet. (Assuming you don't have to sight-read it in public. Sight-reading is a separate skill in its own right.)
Reading: Look at shapes. Like reading whole words. And playing the groups needs to be "under the fingers" ie. the fingers will remember it for you, eventually!
Remember Rachmaninov's advice: Slow practice is the best. And never practice your mistakes.
posted by Coaticass at 1:02 PM on December 4, 2022
How well do you know the piece? Is it memorized? Does this happen with pieces you know "by heart"? How fast can you play scales? Is it possible that while playing fast your brain is more concerned about "playing fast" than playing music?
I have been told (by others wiser than myself) that movement based activities should be practiced (almost excruciatingly) slowly (and then even slower). "Perfect" those transitions so your movement is as smooth as possible.... there should be no wasted/ superfluous actions. It is only after your body has the muscle memory to do the movements efficiently, can they be performed fast. Realistically, you will need to practice the piece in units that make sense... a really tricky bit might only be one or two notes, but then expand to the measure, phrase, section, entire piece, etc.
posted by oceano at 1:05 PM on December 4, 2022 [1 favorite]
I have been told (by others wiser than myself) that movement based activities should be practiced (almost excruciatingly) slowly (and then even slower). "Perfect" those transitions so your movement is as smooth as possible.... there should be no wasted/ superfluous actions. It is only after your body has the muscle memory to do the movements efficiently, can they be performed fast. Realistically, you will need to practice the piece in units that make sense... a really tricky bit might only be one or two notes, but then expand to the measure, phrase, section, entire piece, etc.
posted by oceano at 1:05 PM on December 4, 2022 [1 favorite]
Best answer: Nthing the advice to practice the transitions. A useful technique I learned from my teachers is to practice starting at the end and work your way backward. This way you're always heading toward more familiar territory.
In a difficult passage, practice the last measure at your current tempo until you can play it several times without mistakes. Then move your starting point back by the smallest difficult unit, which might be a measure, half a measure, or even just a pickup note, and practice the total sequence until you can play that several times without mistakes. Keep going like that, moving your starting point in small increments. When you are comfortable with the whole piece at the current tempo, then you can speed up just a bit and start working from the end again at the new tempo.
(Apparently this principle is also used by animal behaviorists teaching behavior chains: practice the last step first.)
posted by henuani at 1:44 PM on December 4, 2022 [3 favorites]
In a difficult passage, practice the last measure at your current tempo until you can play it several times without mistakes. Then move your starting point back by the smallest difficult unit, which might be a measure, half a measure, or even just a pickup note, and practice the total sequence until you can play that several times without mistakes. Keep going like that, moving your starting point in small increments. When you are comfortable with the whole piece at the current tempo, then you can speed up just a bit and start working from the end again at the new tempo.
(Apparently this principle is also used by animal behaviorists teaching behavior chains: practice the last step first.)
posted by henuani at 1:44 PM on December 4, 2022 [3 favorites]
Best answer: Oh and as an extension of above... take a video of you playing the piece at a comfortable pace, an uncomfortable (too fast) pace, and a very slow pace. Watch videos in slow motion and compare / critique technique.
And FWIW I think most experienced practitioners of a physical domain would push back on the premise that speed should be prioritized over everything else.
What you might be experienced is that
posted by oceano at 1:50 PM on December 4, 2022
And FWIW I think most experienced practitioners of a physical domain would push back on the premise that speed should be prioritized over everything else.
What you might be experienced is that
posted by oceano at 1:50 PM on December 4, 2022
I've been having similar issues coming back to guitar after a long time of only playing intermittently. This may be guitar-specific and thus not the particular issue that you're dealing with, but if realized that when I'm dealing with a difficult passage, I have an impulse to dig in and play harder, when really I should be doing the opposite, playing with a lighter touch when I am upping the bpm.
posted by umbú at 2:42 PM on December 4, 2022 [2 favorites]
posted by umbú at 2:42 PM on December 4, 2022 [2 favorites]
Best answer: I know what you mean about a processing speed limit in your brain BUT I don't think it's a permanently set speed limit - you can increase the size of your "buffer" with practice (and with memorization). Like, that's what practice should be helping you do. I've had to learn some fast music the past few months (I am a singer, and these pieces are not super-difficult but they're fast and in languages I do not speak and they've required work) and I know the feeling of being able to perform any one measure at tempo but having my brain and tongue go to mush when I get to the fourth in a row.
Practicing is mostly not about training your fingers, it's about training your brain.
I think people have given you a lot of good ideas for ways to practice, above. I do the "get it perfect at a frustratingly low speed before moving on" thing a lot and one thing that I think is really cool is that even if I'm struggling performing a passage at say 110bpm one day, I often wake up the next day and 110 is a piece of cake and I can happily kick it up a couple of notches right away. Brains do a lot of work while you're sleeping (this is one of the reasons daily practice is important).
Also I'm sure someone said this but if you can do one perfectly, work until you can do two in a row perfectly, then three, and so on.
And think it's important to practice the exact thing that screws you up, like, if there's a couple of fingering changes that you're routinely messing up, practice *just those* until you can do them in your sleep, even faster than you would ever want to. And if the music is not memorized (or even if it is) you need to be thinking about the next bar or section or whatever while you're playing the first bar.
posted by mskyle at 5:48 PM on December 4, 2022
Practicing is mostly not about training your fingers, it's about training your brain.
I think people have given you a lot of good ideas for ways to practice, above. I do the "get it perfect at a frustratingly low speed before moving on" thing a lot and one thing that I think is really cool is that even if I'm struggling performing a passage at say 110bpm one day, I often wake up the next day and 110 is a piece of cake and I can happily kick it up a couple of notches right away. Brains do a lot of work while you're sleeping (this is one of the reasons daily practice is important).
Also I'm sure someone said this but if you can do one perfectly, work until you can do two in a row perfectly, then three, and so on.
And think it's important to practice the exact thing that screws you up, like, if there's a couple of fingering changes that you're routinely messing up, practice *just those* until you can do them in your sleep, even faster than you would ever want to. And if the music is not memorized (or even if it is) you need to be thinking about the next bar or section or whatever while you're playing the first bar.
posted by mskyle at 5:48 PM on December 4, 2022
Best answer: All of the above, plus make sure you're not doing things like lifting your fingers too far off the keys, or any other movement that makes it harder to do at speed. Also, you can practice coordinating your fingers without tongueing or blowing, and if it is a tongued passage, you can practice that endlessly without the clarinet, just walking around the house.
If you're really stuck, take a complete break from it, and focus on playing something else. Perhaps something easier, or different in style. It helps you feel refreshed and more positive if nothing else.
posted by plonkee at 7:12 PM on December 4, 2022
If you're really stuck, take a complete break from it, and focus on playing something else. Perhaps something easier, or different in style. It helps you feel refreshed and more positive if nothing else.
posted by plonkee at 7:12 PM on December 4, 2022
Fast playing is about physical efficiency, which is why people recommend practicing things slow - going slow gives you the time to understand the details of what’s going on physically and adjust to minimise movement and effort, and incrementally increasing the speed gradually unearths more physical stresses, which are opportunities to introduce more efficiencies.
Fast reading in music works similarly to fast reading in language - over time you acclimate more and more to reading blocks of notes (‘words’) rather than note-to-note (sounding words out letter-by-letter). To get better at that, regularly read/play through music you’re unfamiliar with. Early on it will be awkward and clunky, over time it gradually becomes like reading a story, but it’s music, which is a joyful experience when it starts to kick in. Seriously, playing Bach like that there’s plot twists and everything in how he’s treating the musical ideas.
posted by threecheesetrees at 2:32 AM on December 5, 2022 [1 favorite]
Fast reading in music works similarly to fast reading in language - over time you acclimate more and more to reading blocks of notes (‘words’) rather than note-to-note (sounding words out letter-by-letter). To get better at that, regularly read/play through music you’re unfamiliar with. Early on it will be awkward and clunky, over time it gradually becomes like reading a story, but it’s music, which is a joyful experience when it starts to kick in. Seriously, playing Bach like that there’s plot twists and everything in how he’s treating the musical ideas.
posted by threecheesetrees at 2:32 AM on December 5, 2022 [1 favorite]
Best answer: There's a lot of daylight between "practice slowly" and "practice at tempo." For long runs, one of my favorite practice strategies is to use rhythmic variations, which introduce places in the run with longer rhythmic values, effectively breaking it up into smaller pieces. So you're playing the pitches in the run, but changing the rhythms. Here's a set of them that work well for a run of all sixteenths like you have. For the sake of simplicity, I just numbered the pitches 1-8.
Practicing this way using dotted rhythms is pretty common -- and do the dots each way, as in #1).
#2-5 are a set of variations that essentially break the sixteenths up into groups of four at a time, putting the longer note at each one of the four possible places. Practice the runs with a metronome, at first slowly, but you can get to the point where you can play each of the four variations at tempo, you know that you've got all the runs under your fingers at tempo, and will probably find that it's suddenly easier.
posted by dr. boludo at 6:55 AM on December 5, 2022
Practicing this way using dotted rhythms is pretty common -- and do the dots each way, as in #1).
#2-5 are a set of variations that essentially break the sixteenths up into groups of four at a time, putting the longer note at each one of the four possible places. Practice the runs with a metronome, at first slowly, but you can get to the point where you can play each of the four variations at tempo, you know that you've got all the runs under your fingers at tempo, and will probably find that it's suddenly easier.
posted by dr. boludo at 6:55 AM on December 5, 2022
Response by poster: Thank you all, that was very helpful! I have been practising at speeds between 100 and 150, though I didn't think to write that in my question. I think the answers mentioning the scales hit closest to the truth - since starting back up again, I have focused mainly on the orchestra pieces, and my grounding in scales is very weak. I didn't even consider this passage to be scalar! So I think I have to take a big step back, and practise my scales instead of this passage, even if it means not being ready for the Christmas concert.
I marked the tips about the variations as best answers as well, as I've already been using that and it works really well, so I want to recommend it to anyone who might find this question :)
posted by any_name_in_a_storm at 12:55 PM on December 12, 2022
I marked the tips about the variations as best answers as well, as I've already been using that and it works really well, so I want to recommend it to anyone who might find this question :)
posted by any_name_in_a_storm at 12:55 PM on December 12, 2022
This thread is closed to new comments.
Forget 150bpm for now. And if 100 only works on a good day, then take it down to 90 and work slowly back up. Start where you could go on until the cows come home on any day of the week and work up from there.
We all can play fast for one measure. But that's meaningless. You shouldn't think you can do 16th notes @ 150 just because you can do a bar, then rest, then another bar. The fact is, you can't, not yet. But you will if you build a solid foundation slowly. Small little bites, that's the trick!
posted by mono blanco at 12:30 PM on December 4, 2022 [6 favorites]