Who am I?
October 2, 2022 12:18 AM Subscribe
I feel like all my questions are self-help, sad sack questions. Here's another one: I've been told by Mrs. I_Count_Crows that I display one personality when around others, and another while at home. I realized I don't know what is natural. Who am I really? How do I find out who I am and what personality is the actual one for me. More deets inside.
This is a similar post to one a few months ago from me when I was told that my face is resting bitch face. Here's the new scoop and this one hit hard enough to me that I think it's truly true.
Apparently I come off as gregarious, kind and well-liked when in public or in private circumstances like at my in-laws, my parents or social gatherings. Then I act differently and am a whole different person at home. Somewhat cruelly in truth. In a contradictional sense. As in, I'll be all smiley around others, but as soon as the door closes at home, I snap at others and put on earphones and watch TV on my computer. I'm cruel to others and critical.
Hearing this, and thinking on it, I realize that I don't know who I really am, and what defines me. I'm stuck on what is natural. I don't want to dislike myself, but I do dislike that I present two faces to the coin. I'd love thoughts and advice on finding oneself, learning who I am, and being genuine in all circumstances. It's really upsetting.
This is a similar post to one a few months ago from me when I was told that my face is resting bitch face. Here's the new scoop and this one hit hard enough to me that I think it's truly true.
Apparently I come off as gregarious, kind and well-liked when in public or in private circumstances like at my in-laws, my parents or social gatherings. Then I act differently and am a whole different person at home. Somewhat cruelly in truth. In a contradictional sense. As in, I'll be all smiley around others, but as soon as the door closes at home, I snap at others and put on earphones and watch TV on my computer. I'm cruel to others and critical.
Hearing this, and thinking on it, I realize that I don't know who I really am, and what defines me. I'm stuck on what is natural. I don't want to dislike myself, but I do dislike that I present two faces to the coin. I'd love thoughts and advice on finding oneself, learning who I am, and being genuine in all circumstances. It's really upsetting.
Lots and lots of people are gregarious but have limited energy for it and have to recharge afterwards!
There's lots of work on this coming from the autistic community, since it's a really serious issue for lots of autistic folks. But the resources are equally applicable to neurotypical people wanting to be thoughtful about where their energy goes.
Here's a page talking about energy management
posted by quacks like a duck at 12:52 AM on October 2, 2022 [8 favorites]
There's lots of work on this coming from the autistic community, since it's a really serious issue for lots of autistic folks. But the resources are equally applicable to neurotypical people wanting to be thoughtful about where their energy goes.
Here's a page talking about energy management
posted by quacks like a duck at 12:52 AM on October 2, 2022 [8 favorites]
Response by poster: Sorry to pop back in. I wanted to clarify that my cruelty borders on abuse. And I really can't tell you who I am really. I feel paralyzed by the question.
posted by I_count_crows at 1:11 AM on October 2, 2022 [1 favorite]
posted by I_count_crows at 1:11 AM on October 2, 2022 [1 favorite]
I would say that nobody has a true, core personality that is who they "really" are. We are who we choose to be and we can contain multitudes. The gregarious happy you is one face of the real you. The cruel you is another. Human beings are complex.
It sounds like being outgoing is really tiring for you, and in the safety of somebody you believe will put up with it, like your partner, you just turn all the safety's and stops off and let your worst impulses come out. That isn't somehow more or less genuine, it's bad coping on your part that you need to figure out.
For what it's worth I also have a very strong "public face" that few people get behind, but it's not... Fake. It's an amplification of some aspects of me. I could choose, in other circumstances, to amplify different parts of my personality and it would be a different me, but that person woulsnt be more or less real.
posted by stillnocturnal at 1:22 AM on October 2, 2022 [31 favorites]
It sounds like being outgoing is really tiring for you, and in the safety of somebody you believe will put up with it, like your partner, you just turn all the safety's and stops off and let your worst impulses come out. That isn't somehow more or less genuine, it's bad coping on your part that you need to figure out.
For what it's worth I also have a very strong "public face" that few people get behind, but it's not... Fake. It's an amplification of some aspects of me. I could choose, in other circumstances, to amplify different parts of my personality and it would be a different me, but that person woulsnt be more or less real.
posted by stillnocturnal at 1:22 AM on October 2, 2022 [31 favorites]
In light of your update, I'll mention that your situation sounds really really similar to that of autistic people, who often have to learn how to manage their energy so that their shutdowns and meltdowns don't negatively impact the family. Experiencing this as the autistic person can be incredibly traumatic and cause depression, anxiety and CPTSD before we even get to the family dynamics.
I'm NOT saying you're autistic yourself at all, but I am saying that resources for autistic people will help you reframe this as a brain chemistry thing that you can learn to work around and not a lifelong awful personality flaw.
posted by quacks like a duck at 1:38 AM on October 2, 2022 [15 favorites]
I'm NOT saying you're autistic yourself at all, but I am saying that resources for autistic people will help you reframe this as a brain chemistry thing that you can learn to work around and not a lifelong awful personality flaw.
posted by quacks like a duck at 1:38 AM on October 2, 2022 [15 favorites]
I find being around other people exhausting and dysregulating. When I arrange play dates for my kids, it’s really helpful for me to schedule an alone time errand for immediately afterward. It sounds like you need to figure out how to regulate. Try building time in for that.
posted by studioaudience at 1:52 AM on October 2, 2022 [5 favorites]
posted by studioaudience at 1:52 AM on October 2, 2022 [5 favorites]
I might think about turning the question on its head. There is no "real self" at the bottom and behind our behaviours. The more you dig, the more you hunt, the more you become inward-facing, introspective, withdrawn, nay even selfish. The same way you are being now. The opposite of how you want to be!
We are the person that we behave as. This is painful to realise! It's common human nature to think: well I can recognise all these bad habits and nasty ways of acting that I have, but they're not really me. And if I can find the "real me" I'll magically just become the person who doesn't do the things I don't like about myself. It's comforting. It gives us a "get out of jail free card". It stops us from identifying with our actions and behaviours, but with some nebulous "real self" who is a better person and crucially doesn't need to try to be better, because they already intrinsically are.
So flip the question round and start looking outwards. Where am I directing my energy? Where am I directing my attention? What do I notice about the world and the people around me? How do I choose to interpret what I see? How do I choose to act on what I see?
The fact that you present two faces to the world doesn't mean that one is true and one is false. Or that both are false and there is a "real" face lurking in your psyche somewhere to be discovered.
The person who has told you that you are cruel and uncaring towards them has given you some really crucial information to help you see how you behave. And remember, we are only our behaviour. So if you can bear the pain of facing your behaviour (which you clearly are, from posting this question!) then you can start to recognise it for yourself and start to change your behaviour, and so change yourself.
In "public-facing" events you are motivated to want to appear friendly, kind, helpful, smiley whatever positive attributes you are lacking at home. At home there obviously isn't the same motivation. This means, I'd guess, that you're afraid of losing status with outside groups, but take your position in the family for granted. I'm guessing you take the people around you at home for granted.
The stoics say that no-one does anything that she thinks is bad. So you must work to change your idea of what is bad and good.
I would suggest that you are valuing your own comfort and feelings above those of the people in your family, which makes you feel it's ok to act in ways that protect that comfort, at the expense of the others around you.
So, what can you do? You can help yourself understand why your need for comfort is so important. Maybe you are really stressed and retreating into a hedgehog-ball makes you feel safe. Maybe you have sensory issues and find the people around you really annoying and difficult. Maybe you're just a bit lazy and prefer to prioritise yourself over others because it's frankly easier. These are all human traits. There's no point pathologising yourself. But, because you asked this question, you're clearly invested in doing things differently. To not be selfish and abusive, first off you need to care about others the same amount as you care about yourself. Care is a small word but it is so important. It means paying attention to what they need, what will improve their lives, and using your energies towards those things. It also means taking *proper* care of yourself, identifying your own needs, and looking after them in ways that aren't hurtful to others.
Like, I love and care for my family but also find them insanely irritating and boring sometimes. In previous eras of my life I might snap and pick fights and criticise them and make everyone feel shit about themselves. I did this because I felt trapped in their presence, without any choices as to how to act. Nowadays, I'm not a saint, I still find them annoying, but I take care of myself by giving myself time alone in appropriate times (i.e. not in the middle of dinner prep or house-cleaning times), and mentally building equanimity and resilience to annoyance and irritation via meditation and changing my thoughts. Like yeah, hearing my dad's rambling anecdote at dinner for the 10,000th time in my life is deeply boring, but I'll miss him when he's dead and he's not getting any younger, so I will make the effort to appreciate it now while he's here. And later I'll go spend time with myself to re-fuel and give myself the capacity to make better choices.
I also get really hangry and have been highly awful when low on blood sugar. That's TOTALLY something I can manage for myself as an adult, and which makes a huge difference in my ability to care better for those around me. These anecdotes to say: self-care isn't selfish. It gives you the capacity to then be better and good to others.
I really recommend Stoic philosophy (Epictetus, Marcus Aurelius) to read for inspiration on how to control yourself and your actions for your own happiness and the happiness of those around you.
posted by Balthamos at 2:26 AM on October 2, 2022 [37 favorites]
We are the person that we behave as. This is painful to realise! It's common human nature to think: well I can recognise all these bad habits and nasty ways of acting that I have, but they're not really me. And if I can find the "real me" I'll magically just become the person who doesn't do the things I don't like about myself. It's comforting. It gives us a "get out of jail free card". It stops us from identifying with our actions and behaviours, but with some nebulous "real self" who is a better person and crucially doesn't need to try to be better, because they already intrinsically are.
So flip the question round and start looking outwards. Where am I directing my energy? Where am I directing my attention? What do I notice about the world and the people around me? How do I choose to interpret what I see? How do I choose to act on what I see?
The fact that you present two faces to the world doesn't mean that one is true and one is false. Or that both are false and there is a "real" face lurking in your psyche somewhere to be discovered.
The person who has told you that you are cruel and uncaring towards them has given you some really crucial information to help you see how you behave. And remember, we are only our behaviour. So if you can bear the pain of facing your behaviour (which you clearly are, from posting this question!) then you can start to recognise it for yourself and start to change your behaviour, and so change yourself.
In "public-facing" events you are motivated to want to appear friendly, kind, helpful, smiley whatever positive attributes you are lacking at home. At home there obviously isn't the same motivation. This means, I'd guess, that you're afraid of losing status with outside groups, but take your position in the family for granted. I'm guessing you take the people around you at home for granted.
The stoics say that no-one does anything that she thinks is bad. So you must work to change your idea of what is bad and good.
I would suggest that you are valuing your own comfort and feelings above those of the people in your family, which makes you feel it's ok to act in ways that protect that comfort, at the expense of the others around you.
So, what can you do? You can help yourself understand why your need for comfort is so important. Maybe you are really stressed and retreating into a hedgehog-ball makes you feel safe. Maybe you have sensory issues and find the people around you really annoying and difficult. Maybe you're just a bit lazy and prefer to prioritise yourself over others because it's frankly easier. These are all human traits. There's no point pathologising yourself. But, because you asked this question, you're clearly invested in doing things differently. To not be selfish and abusive, first off you need to care about others the same amount as you care about yourself. Care is a small word but it is so important. It means paying attention to what they need, what will improve their lives, and using your energies towards those things. It also means taking *proper* care of yourself, identifying your own needs, and looking after them in ways that aren't hurtful to others.
Like, I love and care for my family but also find them insanely irritating and boring sometimes. In previous eras of my life I might snap and pick fights and criticise them and make everyone feel shit about themselves. I did this because I felt trapped in their presence, without any choices as to how to act. Nowadays, I'm not a saint, I still find them annoying, but I take care of myself by giving myself time alone in appropriate times (i.e. not in the middle of dinner prep or house-cleaning times), and mentally building equanimity and resilience to annoyance and irritation via meditation and changing my thoughts. Like yeah, hearing my dad's rambling anecdote at dinner for the 10,000th time in my life is deeply boring, but I'll miss him when he's dead and he's not getting any younger, so I will make the effort to appreciate it now while he's here. And later I'll go spend time with myself to re-fuel and give myself the capacity to make better choices.
I also get really hangry and have been highly awful when low on blood sugar. That's TOTALLY something I can manage for myself as an adult, and which makes a huge difference in my ability to care better for those around me. These anecdotes to say: self-care isn't selfish. It gives you the capacity to then be better and good to others.
I really recommend Stoic philosophy (Epictetus, Marcus Aurelius) to read for inspiration on how to control yourself and your actions for your own happiness and the happiness of those around you.
posted by Balthamos at 2:26 AM on October 2, 2022 [37 favorites]
So you are cruel and inconsiderate to your wife, but your questions are about what it means about you as a person?
It means you are not a very good partner and that you operate from a place of selfishness.
Sorry that is harsh, but your question isn’t even saying you want to be a better spouse, it is about how confusing it is for you to be you.
Phrasing such as “I’ve been told” indicates you’ve been okay with being an ass as long as no one mentions it. But now that is has been acknowledged, why are you getting bogged down in this useless debate about two sides of the coin and what is “natural” (what the heck does that even mean?)
I think asking this question can be a good step, but you are side stepping the primary issue, which is how you treat your wife and, presumably, anyone else in the inner family circle.
It's sad that your focus is not on "how can I change." Maybe you will get there, maybe you are working on it.
Good luck to you, but more so to your wife, she has my sympathy.
posted by rhonzo at 3:50 AM on October 2, 2022 [60 favorites]
It means you are not a very good partner and that you operate from a place of selfishness.
Sorry that is harsh, but your question isn’t even saying you want to be a better spouse, it is about how confusing it is for you to be you.
Phrasing such as “I’ve been told” indicates you’ve been okay with being an ass as long as no one mentions it. But now that is has been acknowledged, why are you getting bogged down in this useless debate about two sides of the coin and what is “natural” (what the heck does that even mean?)
I think asking this question can be a good step, but you are side stepping the primary issue, which is how you treat your wife and, presumably, anyone else in the inner family circle.
It's sad that your focus is not on "how can I change." Maybe you will get there, maybe you are working on it.
Good luck to you, but more so to your wife, she has my sympathy.
posted by rhonzo at 3:50 AM on October 2, 2022 [60 favorites]
There are a LOT of reasons why you'd "change colors" when you are around different people.
Maybe you are just a chameleon who wanted to fit in everywhere, so you tend to "sync" with the crowd. (And assume that's what you are, WHY you do it is yet a DIFFERENT can of worms, best discussed with a professional)
Maybe you're just a "extrovert pleaser" in public, but it drains you and in private you are actually an introvert, and you need time to recharge and recover after spending time interacting with the public. Again, WHY you do this is best left up to the professional.
There's really not much point discussing this with us, some bunch of random yahoos, though I'm sure there's a few of us who has the credentials of that type of professional. But standard disclaimers apply.
posted by kschang at 4:51 AM on October 2, 2022
Maybe you are just a chameleon who wanted to fit in everywhere, so you tend to "sync" with the crowd. (And assume that's what you are, WHY you do it is yet a DIFFERENT can of worms, best discussed with a professional)
Maybe you're just a "extrovert pleaser" in public, but it drains you and in private you are actually an introvert, and you need time to recharge and recover after spending time interacting with the public. Again, WHY you do this is best left up to the professional.
There's really not much point discussing this with us, some bunch of random yahoos, though I'm sure there's a few of us who has the credentials of that type of professional. But standard disclaimers apply.
posted by kschang at 4:51 AM on October 2, 2022
I'd like to echo quacks like a duck. Both "you're very different around others" and "your neutral expression seems angry" are very common for autistic people.
So is needing to isolate and self regulate through stims like listening to music on headphones after having been social.
Also a sense of confusion about who you really are, and being very influenced by who you are with in terms of your sense of self.
I obviously don't know whether or not you are neurodivergent, but it's worth investigating strategies of self regulation that work for neurodivergent people, like being aware of your sensory sensitivities, when social activities drain you, learnng how to regulate your emotions in ways that aren't harmful to you or the people around you.
posted by Zumbador at 5:09 AM on October 2, 2022 [2 favorites]
So is needing to isolate and self regulate through stims like listening to music on headphones after having been social.
Also a sense of confusion about who you really are, and being very influenced by who you are with in terms of your sense of self.
I obviously don't know whether or not you are neurodivergent, but it's worth investigating strategies of self regulation that work for neurodivergent people, like being aware of your sensory sensitivities, when social activities drain you, learnng how to regulate your emotions in ways that aren't harmful to you or the people around you.
posted by Zumbador at 5:09 AM on October 2, 2022 [2 favorites]
Please seek professional help. Not because you're a terrible person, but because all of these self-reflective questions are best answered by someone who can help you explore questions of identity and social culture in a much better and more supportive setting.
posted by DarlingBri at 5:18 AM on October 2, 2022 [20 favorites]
posted by DarlingBri at 5:18 AM on October 2, 2022 [20 favorites]
To me it sound a bit like "after-school-restraint-collapse" - a phenomenon often observed with little kids, who try to put their best face forward during school and then start to act out once they feel safe at home. I'm a teacher, and I can still observe it in myself. I generally enjoy teaching, but it certainly drains my social batteries more than any other job I ever had, and it makes me feel somewhat unsociable immediately after classes. I need a fair bit of alone time to become fit for company again.
It's why I've learned to appreciate a bit of a commute. Mine involves a thirty-minute train ride, and a bit of walking, and I often find that quite useful to decompress. Sometimes I even get out one stop earlier, and walk a bit more, to get some exercise and clear my head. Stressful commutes however would surely make it worse. (Eg. I'm a bad driver, and if I didn't have access to great public transport and didn't live in a very walkable place, commuting would not work at all in terms of recharging for me), so I have no idea if that could potentially work for you.
I think the problem in your case is not so much that you need alone-time to recharge, but that you feel the need to get snappy to defend it, and that once you have recharged, you use that fresh energy mostly for the benefit of friends and acquaintances rather than the people you live with. It does seem to suggest that you're taking them a bit for granted. Relationships need to be nurtured, that takes effort, and right now, you seem to be focussing your energy on other things. Seems like you need to reconsider your priorities.
posted by sohalt at 5:42 AM on October 2, 2022 [5 favorites]
It's why I've learned to appreciate a bit of a commute. Mine involves a thirty-minute train ride, and a bit of walking, and I often find that quite useful to decompress. Sometimes I even get out one stop earlier, and walk a bit more, to get some exercise and clear my head. Stressful commutes however would surely make it worse. (Eg. I'm a bad driver, and if I didn't have access to great public transport and didn't live in a very walkable place, commuting would not work at all in terms of recharging for me), so I have no idea if that could potentially work for you.
I think the problem in your case is not so much that you need alone-time to recharge, but that you feel the need to get snappy to defend it, and that once you have recharged, you use that fresh energy mostly for the benefit of friends and acquaintances rather than the people you live with. It does seem to suggest that you're taking them a bit for granted. Relationships need to be nurtured, that takes effort, and right now, you seem to be focussing your energy on other things. Seems like you need to reconsider your priorities.
posted by sohalt at 5:42 AM on October 2, 2022 [5 favorites]
Y’know how toddlers (or tweens, or teenagers, or…) behave ok around other people but then suddenly start having tantrums when they are with just their family? It’s because they can. They feel safe to do so, because they know their family is loyal and would not abandon them. This is the same thing.
posted by Melismata at 5:52 AM on October 2, 2022 [4 favorites]
posted by Melismata at 5:52 AM on October 2, 2022 [4 favorites]
This sounds very much like everything I read trying to understand why my relationship felt like it did. Whether or not you have autism, you may find resources for people in autistic/NT relationships helpful. I got a lot out of The Journal of Best Practices (which is more fun and less academic than it sounds).
posted by emkelley at 6:29 AM on October 2, 2022 [2 favorites]
posted by emkelley at 6:29 AM on October 2, 2022 [2 favorites]
The question is less who you are and more how you want to be. If you don't actually want to be 'cruel bordering on abuse', then your job is to figure out the things that cause you to act that way and find better ways to manage them.
posted by trig at 6:32 AM on October 2, 2022 [9 favorites]
posted by trig at 6:32 AM on October 2, 2022 [9 favorites]
If the word "abuse" has been mentioned-- what does it mean to "border on abuse"?-- I think you should focus more on what your spouse and family need and point your efforts in that direction. You could spend years trying to figure out what is going on with you, but your behavior has become unacceptable.
posted by BibiRose at 6:33 AM on October 2, 2022 [11 favorites]
posted by BibiRose at 6:33 AM on October 2, 2022 [11 favorites]
No one acts the same in every context. It’s not that one of those is the real you and the other a complete fake. Both of those “faces” are you, adapting for different situations. (That said, as someone who is likely autistic and has at least three different ‘faces’, the one I use with coworkers and strangers is the least authentic as it’s the version of me that is masking hardest to coexist with people I did not choose and don’t feel relaxed with. I wouldn’t be surprised to hear that’s the same for you.)
The good news is you can spend some time sitting with this and starting to make more conscious choices about which facets of yourself you display in different situations, and perhaps end up with a version of yourself that feels more cohesive and less distressing to you.
The bad news is that’s not the most urgent work for you to be doing. It might need to happen alongside, and as part of, the work of no longer being cruel to the point of abuse with your family, but that is the immediate work.
posted by Stacey at 6:38 AM on October 2, 2022 [3 favorites]
The good news is you can spend some time sitting with this and starting to make more conscious choices about which facets of yourself you display in different situations, and perhaps end up with a version of yourself that feels more cohesive and less distressing to you.
The bad news is that’s not the most urgent work for you to be doing. It might need to happen alongside, and as part of, the work of no longer being cruel to the point of abuse with your family, but that is the immediate work.
posted by Stacey at 6:38 AM on October 2, 2022 [3 favorites]
I think this needs to be a question for a therapist, with whom you need to unpack the "cruel and critical" part - what exactly does this mean, how do others experience it, is it something where you are consciously feeling angry and say something unkind or something where you say stuff that seems neutral to you but unkind to others, etc. Are you shutting people out or are you out of energy and that is making you aggressively retreat? What enables you to be friendly in public? Do you like being in public:
If this is mostly a question of how you behave to others rather than your values, goals, beliefs, narratives about yourself, etc, it doesn't seem as much about being two different people as having two different behavior patterns and therapy could help you figure out how they are connected and how to moderate them.
posted by Frowner at 6:45 AM on October 2, 2022 [8 favorites]
If this is mostly a question of how you behave to others rather than your values, goals, beliefs, narratives about yourself, etc, it doesn't seem as much about being two different people as having two different behavior patterns and therapy could help you figure out how they are connected and how to moderate them.
posted by Frowner at 6:45 AM on October 2, 2022 [8 favorites]
Your personality is: someone who is gregarious, kind, and well-liked in public, and cruel, bordering on abusive in private. Your "true personality" isn't one thing, one way of being.
I'll be all smiley around others, but as soon as the door closes at home, I snap at others and put on earphones and watch TV on my computer. I'm cruel to others and critical.
I can relate to this as an introvert, but it's worth pointing out that this public/private dichotomy is also typical with abusers.
Your question is about how this affects you without any apparent concern for the people you're being cruel to. That's concerning.
posted by Mavri at 8:45 AM on October 2, 2022 [18 favorites]
I'll be all smiley around others, but as soon as the door closes at home, I snap at others and put on earphones and watch TV on my computer. I'm cruel to others and critical.
I can relate to this as an introvert, but it's worth pointing out that this public/private dichotomy is also typical with abusers.
Your question is about how this affects you without any apparent concern for the people you're being cruel to. That's concerning.
posted by Mavri at 8:45 AM on October 2, 2022 [18 favorites]
Please talk to your doctor about getting screened for depression. Heck, you could even do this screening on your own.
Common symptoms of depression include: irritability, being critical of self and others (focusing on the negative), existential angst/questioning identity and meaning of life.
It is also extremely common for people with depression to have a "public face" that is more outgoing, cheerful, and gregarious. This is an excellent coping mechanism, and is not in and of itself problematic. The problem comes when you get home and the depression overtakes your mood, leading to cruel and "borderline abusive" behavior towards those closest to you. It also becomes more and more exhausting to put on the "public face" the longer your depression continues and is untreated.
Even if you don't end up with a clear diagnosis (autism spectrum or depression), getting evaluated and attending some therapy may help bring some relief and clarity around your mood and identity questions.
posted by sleepingwithcats at 9:01 AM on October 2, 2022 [2 favorites]
Common symptoms of depression include: irritability, being critical of self and others (focusing on the negative), existential angst/questioning identity and meaning of life.
It is also extremely common for people with depression to have a "public face" that is more outgoing, cheerful, and gregarious. This is an excellent coping mechanism, and is not in and of itself problematic. The problem comes when you get home and the depression overtakes your mood, leading to cruel and "borderline abusive" behavior towards those closest to you. It also becomes more and more exhausting to put on the "public face" the longer your depression continues and is untreated.
Even if you don't end up with a clear diagnosis (autism spectrum or depression), getting evaluated and attending some therapy may help bring some relief and clarity around your mood and identity questions.
posted by sleepingwithcats at 9:01 AM on October 2, 2022 [2 favorites]
Other traits in your question that can imply autism to me
- Concern about having two faces to your coin / wanting to be genuine in all circumstances
- Focus on what neurotypical people consider a detail. Here, the big picture being that you care about Mrs. I_Count_Crows. A detail being the question of your identity.
If I'm right, I think once you have enough details (understanding of your sense of identity), the big picture will come into place. It just may take longer than with other people. I say this because it looks to me like you really do care about Mrs. I_Count_Crows' wellbeing, and it sounds to me like you're working to address that.
While you're working to figure yourself out, perhaps ask Mrs. I_Count_Crows what she needs? Maybe, for example, the two of you could schedule some recurring quality time intentionally doing something together? That would give you an opportunity to plan for it, and if you know it's coming you can put on your kindest, most gregarious self.
posted by aniola at 9:37 AM on October 2, 2022 [6 favorites]
- Concern about having two faces to your coin / wanting to be genuine in all circumstances
- Focus on what neurotypical people consider a detail. Here, the big picture being that you care about Mrs. I_Count_Crows. A detail being the question of your identity.
If I'm right, I think once you have enough details (understanding of your sense of identity), the big picture will come into place. It just may take longer than with other people. I say this because it looks to me like you really do care about Mrs. I_Count_Crows' wellbeing, and it sounds to me like you're working to address that.
While you're working to figure yourself out, perhaps ask Mrs. I_Count_Crows what she needs? Maybe, for example, the two of you could schedule some recurring quality time intentionally doing something together? That would give you an opportunity to plan for it, and if you know it's coming you can put on your kindest, most gregarious self.
posted by aniola at 9:37 AM on October 2, 2022 [6 favorites]
You can be a decent loving and kind person, lovely to other people………..and……. Still be…… i’m sorry…eeeeeeek Abusive. These things are not mutually exclusive. I have, myself, been abusive. Because there is so much shame around being abusive we don’t want to even think about it, consider it- or anything. It’s a horrible thought. How could we do something like that? We would never want our loved ones to feel humiliated, terrorized, frightened, minimized, or anything like that- by our behavior- but the truth is, that if we regularly behave in ways that make them feel that way (despite our intentions) then- they will feel abused and can say they were abused. It’s awful.
Often abuse can come from feeling like we are in fight or flight mode, which happens often if we have experienced abuse ourselves (that was the case for me, and then add in chronic migraine and extremely sensitive hearing and an unsupportive environment) or…. I don’t know… this could happen in many scenarios.
But for me, I got a lot of outside help involved because I think abuse likes to happen in secret, and in the dark. And if you aren’t alone then you begin to protect yourself from being in a position where you feel vulnerable to becoming abusive. I feel like I can now walk away, I feel like I can escape upsetting situations and I am working towards making proper boundaries (are you staying in these social situations too long? Do you have control over them? How many of them? How long you are there?)
Good luck. Work towards making this better. Anyone with the wrong set of circumstances can become abusive. It’s the “fight” part of fight or flight, in the completely wrong circumstances and pointed at the wrong people. Not true for everyone but probably true for you or you wouldn’t be asking the question.
posted by flink at 10:35 AM on October 2, 2022 [7 favorites]
Often abuse can come from feeling like we are in fight or flight mode, which happens often if we have experienced abuse ourselves (that was the case for me, and then add in chronic migraine and extremely sensitive hearing and an unsupportive environment) or…. I don’t know… this could happen in many scenarios.
But for me, I got a lot of outside help involved because I think abuse likes to happen in secret, and in the dark. And if you aren’t alone then you begin to protect yourself from being in a position where you feel vulnerable to becoming abusive. I feel like I can now walk away, I feel like I can escape upsetting situations and I am working towards making proper boundaries (are you staying in these social situations too long? Do you have control over them? How many of them? How long you are there?)
Good luck. Work towards making this better. Anyone with the wrong set of circumstances can become abusive. It’s the “fight” part of fight or flight, in the completely wrong circumstances and pointed at the wrong people. Not true for everyone but probably true for you or you wouldn’t be asking the question.
posted by flink at 10:35 AM on October 2, 2022 [7 favorites]
Also, what your partner really needs to know is if you really love/are committed to the relationship or are fulfilled by the relationship… seeing someone look happy and then seem unhappy when they are alone with you and the family makes you think that the problem is the family situation. So I would have a serious come to Jesus moment to see if I could put her mind at rest about that, Or what part of family life is not agreeing with you at this time? Or what? And see if there are some ways you can make her feel secure. If indeed she should feel secure. If not, think hard about it.
posted by flink at 10:43 AM on October 2, 2022 [3 favorites]
posted by flink at 10:43 AM on October 2, 2022 [3 favorites]
It sounds like you aren’t saving any of your good parts for your home life and using them all up on other people and situations. I used the word “parts” there deliberately because all of this is a part of you. The cruel abusive part that’s creating space for you is a part that can very likely change if you put in the work. The work doesn’t look like finding out who is the real you, but in finding out through introspection and conversation what you are getting out of behaving the way you are. You are getting to maintain other people’s good opinion of you with your public face, for example. You are getting the benefits of partnership while getting to check out at home, is another aspect.
I want to encourage you that it is possible to change. I was married to someone like you and it was awful. I’m not married to someone like you anymore, but I’m still married to the same person. When he was confronted with his actions it caused a massive identity crisis for him because he hadn’t thought about himself as an abuser. He tailspinned for a week, but CRUCIALLY during that week he set up therapy for himself and went one to three times a week - a habit he keeps up to this day. He found us a couples councilor, too. And was 100% on my side during our sessions with taking responsibility for his actions. He heard me, and made a firm commitment to himself that he wanted to be a better person. Not to me. Because your growth can’t be about another person. It has to be because YOU desire congruence between your public and private faces and YOU believe it is worth putting in the work and making a change.
Let your identity crisis spur you on to action while it is feeling so acute and painful. You have an opportunity right now to allow your emotions to help you make a right choice and better self. Don’t marinate or wallow in this feeling. Use it to commit to communicating your needs and finding out what your needs are and doing the deep work you need to do with a therapist to bring yourself into focus as the kind person you wish to be. Your emotion of horror and shock is something you should take advantage of to help you down the path to changing. Don’t let yourself soothe into complacency before you have sought the resources and tools that will help you have public and private faces you are proud of.
posted by Bottlecap at 11:04 AM on October 2, 2022 [15 favorites]
I want to encourage you that it is possible to change. I was married to someone like you and it was awful. I’m not married to someone like you anymore, but I’m still married to the same person. When he was confronted with his actions it caused a massive identity crisis for him because he hadn’t thought about himself as an abuser. He tailspinned for a week, but CRUCIALLY during that week he set up therapy for himself and went one to three times a week - a habit he keeps up to this day. He found us a couples councilor, too. And was 100% on my side during our sessions with taking responsibility for his actions. He heard me, and made a firm commitment to himself that he wanted to be a better person. Not to me. Because your growth can’t be about another person. It has to be because YOU desire congruence between your public and private faces and YOU believe it is worth putting in the work and making a change.
Let your identity crisis spur you on to action while it is feeling so acute and painful. You have an opportunity right now to allow your emotions to help you make a right choice and better self. Don’t marinate or wallow in this feeling. Use it to commit to communicating your needs and finding out what your needs are and doing the deep work you need to do with a therapist to bring yourself into focus as the kind person you wish to be. Your emotion of horror and shock is something you should take advantage of to help you down the path to changing. Don’t let yourself soothe into complacency before you have sought the resources and tools that will help you have public and private faces you are proud of.
posted by Bottlecap at 11:04 AM on October 2, 2022 [15 favorites]
This is a great question for therapy. When looking for a therapist, try finding one who is neurodiversity-aware, since that might come up.
posted by matildaben at 11:42 AM on October 2, 2022 [1 favorite]
posted by matildaben at 11:42 AM on October 2, 2022 [1 favorite]
OK I'm someone a lot like you who is cruel to people I care about and presents a much nicer public face. You need to ask the question of 'how do I stop being cruel to people' because that is really what matters here.
Who you are is a person who uses other people to feel better about yourself, and the personality you choose is reflective of your goals and the situation. When it is beneficial to you to act nice to people, you do so. When it is beneficial to you to act cruel, you do so. That's really all there is to it.
Why would you act cruel -- well, I can't say exactly in your case, but for me, it's a tactic to forestall criticism and maintain control over others. I find it very hard to be close to people who know enough about me to see me for who and what I am. Being prickly and critical of others is a kind of offensive action to keep others on the defensive. It's a threat, it shows you're ready to be violent, so the purpose is to make people afraid of you. To fix it you have to call off the war against your loved ones.
posted by PercussivePaul at 2:21 PM on October 2, 2022 [5 favorites]
Who you are is a person who uses other people to feel better about yourself, and the personality you choose is reflective of your goals and the situation. When it is beneficial to you to act nice to people, you do so. When it is beneficial to you to act cruel, you do so. That's really all there is to it.
Why would you act cruel -- well, I can't say exactly in your case, but for me, it's a tactic to forestall criticism and maintain control over others. I find it very hard to be close to people who know enough about me to see me for who and what I am. Being prickly and critical of others is a kind of offensive action to keep others on the defensive. It's a threat, it shows you're ready to be violent, so the purpose is to make people afraid of you. To fix it you have to call off the war against your loved ones.
posted by PercussivePaul at 2:21 PM on October 2, 2022 [5 favorites]
I really can't tell you who I am really. I feel paralyzed by the question.
Best answer I have for this is a two-parter:
1. I am this (gestures vaguely in own direction).
2. Now describe this.
This looks like a trivial manoeuvre but I've personally found a huge amount of value in explicitly separating the issue of identity per se from the issue of describing or categorizing this entity.
We're not accustomed to making that separation because most of the things whose identities we're interested in are not us, and we rely on descriptions of those things to make those identifications. But we don't actually need to do that for ourselves because no matter where we go, here we are: we don't need to be defined in order simply to be.
The main benefit of the separation is that it lets me maintain my conceptual integrity as an entity regardless of how I might be described at any given moment, either by myself or by others. It also means that I am not my behaviours and this gives me the freedom to work on altering and adapting those without experiencing anything even vaguely resembling personal annihilation.
Incidentally, thoughts are behaviours, so from the fact that I am not my behaviours it follows that I am not my thoughts either. And since the actual idea of "I" is an idea - i.e. a thought - it follows that my self-model is not me; it's merely a thing that I do.
This deals very satisfactorily with the question of where I go when I'm asleep: I don't go anywhere, I'm right there tucked up under the doona, but my self-model - my "I" - has been shut down for the night, along with all my other thoughts.
That realization scales fractally: my self-model doesn't exist except when I'm actively using it. The fact that it is there every time I go looking for it, then, is not reliable evidence that it has the same kind of object permanence shared by other things I might choose to test in that way, like the red ball behind the chair or indeed my actual self: there is no plausible mechanism by which those things could be brought into existence by the act of testing for their presence.
Ponder the consequences of that for long enough and the Hard Problem of Consciousness simply evaporates, leaving behind only a sulphurous whiff of Just So Stories.
posted by flabdablet at 6:10 PM on October 2, 2022 [3 favorites]
Best answer I have for this is a two-parter:
1. I am this (gestures vaguely in own direction).
2. Now describe this.
This looks like a trivial manoeuvre but I've personally found a huge amount of value in explicitly separating the issue of identity per se from the issue of describing or categorizing this entity.
We're not accustomed to making that separation because most of the things whose identities we're interested in are not us, and we rely on descriptions of those things to make those identifications. But we don't actually need to do that for ourselves because no matter where we go, here we are: we don't need to be defined in order simply to be.
The main benefit of the separation is that it lets me maintain my conceptual integrity as an entity regardless of how I might be described at any given moment, either by myself or by others. It also means that I am not my behaviours and this gives me the freedom to work on altering and adapting those without experiencing anything even vaguely resembling personal annihilation.
Incidentally, thoughts are behaviours, so from the fact that I am not my behaviours it follows that I am not my thoughts either. And since the actual idea of "I" is an idea - i.e. a thought - it follows that my self-model is not me; it's merely a thing that I do.
This deals very satisfactorily with the question of where I go when I'm asleep: I don't go anywhere, I'm right there tucked up under the doona, but my self-model - my "I" - has been shut down for the night, along with all my other thoughts.
That realization scales fractally: my self-model doesn't exist except when I'm actively using it. The fact that it is there every time I go looking for it, then, is not reliable evidence that it has the same kind of object permanence shared by other things I might choose to test in that way, like the red ball behind the chair or indeed my actual self: there is no plausible mechanism by which those things could be brought into existence by the act of testing for their presence.
Ponder the consequences of that for long enough and the Hard Problem of Consciousness simply evaporates, leaving behind only a sulphurous whiff of Just So Stories.
posted by flabdablet at 6:10 PM on October 2, 2022 [3 favorites]
Also incidentally, the idea that any person anywhere could ever be expected to display the exact same set of personality traits regardless of the social setting in which they find themselves strikes me as wildly unrealistic.
I don't think you'll find a way to display a single social face and I don't think you should waste your time on searching for that kind of consistency. Now that it's been brought to your attention that some of your behaviours are triggering misery within your loved ones, just focus on finding ways to modify those behaviours.
And as others have pointed out above, there is not a single thing wrong with needing a bit of just-being-me time when you're inside the refuge of your own home. It might even be that the only thing you need to do is negotiate for that a bit more explicitly.
posted by flabdablet at 6:41 PM on October 2, 2022 [1 favorite]
I don't think you'll find a way to display a single social face and I don't think you should waste your time on searching for that kind of consistency. Now that it's been brought to your attention that some of your behaviours are triggering misery within your loved ones, just focus on finding ways to modify those behaviours.
And as others have pointed out above, there is not a single thing wrong with needing a bit of just-being-me time when you're inside the refuge of your own home. It might even be that the only thing you need to do is negotiate for that a bit more explicitly.
posted by flabdablet at 6:41 PM on October 2, 2022 [1 favorite]
We contain every possible trait — good and bad — and we pull them out when they’re useful.
Sometimes we pull out the wrong tool for the job. To me it sounds like you may be pulling out "bitchy and cruel" when you would be better served by "I need alone time now."
In general though all human beings are huge writhing masses of contradictory wants and needs. Working with that rather than trying to clamp yourself down to a few acceptable traits will likely help.
posted by Tell Me No Lies at 10:22 PM on October 2, 2022 [1 favorite]
Sometimes we pull out the wrong tool for the job. To me it sounds like you may be pulling out "bitchy and cruel" when you would be better served by "I need alone time now."
In general though all human beings are huge writhing masses of contradictory wants and needs. Working with that rather than trying to clamp yourself down to a few acceptable traits will likely help.
posted by Tell Me No Lies at 10:22 PM on October 2, 2022 [1 favorite]
The reality that there is no true self and that the ego is layers of identities is true, however difficult in practice. Someone has to respond, behave, speak, choose. How do we know if those behaviours represent the most coherent self available? We can't just be standing around in pure awareness all the time.
You may be looking for Internal Family Systems therapy. When we reflect on our social experiences and say things like "well, a part of me said that to show off my knowledge, but then another part of me felt guilty about showing off again, and another part tried to shove down the feelings of those two sides" that is a form of internal family systems analysis. Our ego is not one self, but collections of conflicting wishes and desires, and any one of those desires comes to the forefront and controls the behaviour of the organism at any given time. In my example, the "showing off" desire won the battle over the "guilty side" and so the behaviour that was chosen was to show off (it could have easily been "stay silent").
Our deeper self (the one that could most approximate the true "us") is a more non-verbal side that is aware of all those competing desires, does not engage in battle with any of them, neither does it cede power. It is a more resourceful side that comes from a place of love, strength and fullness; it is able to chose a behaviour and be at peace with the outcome. The more you untangle the smaller ego bits that are struggling with each other, the more clearly this peaceful self appears. It's the self that "knew what it wanted all along".
As for being nice in public and angry in private, another take that others may have had above is depression and people pleasing. You may have just enough energy to "get through" an interaction behaving the way you think you should to win the approval of others, but once in private the resentment comes up that "it wasn't allowed" to just be yourself in the first place. If part of this reads true then try investigating why you feel the need to be "on" (what are you trying to control or manipulate from others, what are you trying to avoid in them or yourself) and take some risks to not put on that persona the next time and see what happens. Say just one true thing and see what happens. One way to identify if a persona is coming up is that the body and mind feels tight/tense and you might feel "in your head"; the deeper self does feel like it's coming from deep within, like the heart or belly or even as though you are truly rooted to the ground through your feet ("grounded"). It's relaxed and safe. Good luck.
posted by St. Peepsburg at 8:30 AM on October 3, 2022
You may be looking for Internal Family Systems therapy. When we reflect on our social experiences and say things like "well, a part of me said that to show off my knowledge, but then another part of me felt guilty about showing off again, and another part tried to shove down the feelings of those two sides" that is a form of internal family systems analysis. Our ego is not one self, but collections of conflicting wishes and desires, and any one of those desires comes to the forefront and controls the behaviour of the organism at any given time. In my example, the "showing off" desire won the battle over the "guilty side" and so the behaviour that was chosen was to show off (it could have easily been "stay silent").
Our deeper self (the one that could most approximate the true "us") is a more non-verbal side that is aware of all those competing desires, does not engage in battle with any of them, neither does it cede power. It is a more resourceful side that comes from a place of love, strength and fullness; it is able to chose a behaviour and be at peace with the outcome. The more you untangle the smaller ego bits that are struggling with each other, the more clearly this peaceful self appears. It's the self that "knew what it wanted all along".
As for being nice in public and angry in private, another take that others may have had above is depression and people pleasing. You may have just enough energy to "get through" an interaction behaving the way you think you should to win the approval of others, but once in private the resentment comes up that "it wasn't allowed" to just be yourself in the first place. If part of this reads true then try investigating why you feel the need to be "on" (what are you trying to control or manipulate from others, what are you trying to avoid in them or yourself) and take some risks to not put on that persona the next time and see what happens. Say just one true thing and see what happens. One way to identify if a persona is coming up is that the body and mind feels tight/tense and you might feel "in your head"; the deeper self does feel like it's coming from deep within, like the heart or belly or even as though you are truly rooted to the ground through your feet ("grounded"). It's relaxed and safe. Good luck.
posted by St. Peepsburg at 8:30 AM on October 3, 2022
How do we know if those behaviours represent the most coherent self available?
The trick is understanding that none of our behaviours are our selves, coherent or otherwise. Our selves are things with object permanence, like the red ball that's still there even when it's rolled behind the chair; our behaviours are dynamic phenomena of which object permanence is not an attribute, like the rolling that the ball did in order to get behind the chair. A red ball that rolled behind the chair today could bounce back there tomorrow and carom off all the walls and out the window on Thursday with no loss of coherence.
We can't just be standing around in pure awareness all the time.
I agree that that's a thing that can't be achieved, which is why it's such a stroke of luck that it doesn't need to be. The kinds of brain processes involved in paying close attention to as much of what's going on as is perceptible are very slow and energy-intensive, so I think human beings and indeed most animals run on the autopilot we call "habit" most of the time; we'd all have been eaten by lions aeons ago were this not the case.
But standing around in pure awareness some of the time, especially after noticing that autopilot has been repeatedly driving us off into the weeds, is really valuable. Getting hung up in endless wrong-from-the-start internal bickering over which parts of our self-model are essential to having a sense of self unproductively restricts the ability to maintain that awareness and is therefore best minimized.
Having a sense of self just happens in people whose minds have not been torn to pieces by trauma; it's pretty much habitual. And people whose minds have been torn to pieces by trauma will have much bigger fish to fry than worry over owning a resting bitch face or acting habitually surly when at home.
Our deeper self (the one that could most approximate the true "us") is a more non-verbal side that is aware of all those competing desires, does not engage in battle with any of them, neither does it cede power.
The deeper I went into self-inquiry, the further I seemed to get from anything like satisfactory results. It wasn't until I stopped going deep and started widening the scope of what I allowed the word "self" to refer to that the I-am-this / now-describe-this two-step occurred to me.
So I no longer think of the "true me" as some core deep underneath, or inside, or obscured by all the negotiations and squabbling of the internal committee, but as the thing of which all of those other things are behaviours.
I agree that the true self is non-verbal, but mainly because formulating anything verbally is itself a behaviour i.e. something that the true self does and therefore less than what it is.
The idea of a self that "knew what it wanted all along" raises alarms for me. That sounds exactly like the kind of attribute that one of my last remaining illusions of ego-object-permanence used to use to defend its spurious claim to be me before I saw it, too, for what it was.
Working out what I want is pretty much the only justification for using an ego, and when the best it can offer is a thinly disguised post facto rationalization for what I actually did then that's a pretty weak-sauce effort probably not much worth repeating. Far better, I think, to eliminate as much over-sweetened illusory junk food from its diet of ideas as possible and then see what it can come up with.
posted by flabdablet at 10:56 AM on October 3, 2022
The trick is understanding that none of our behaviours are our selves, coherent or otherwise. Our selves are things with object permanence, like the red ball that's still there even when it's rolled behind the chair; our behaviours are dynamic phenomena of which object permanence is not an attribute, like the rolling that the ball did in order to get behind the chair. A red ball that rolled behind the chair today could bounce back there tomorrow and carom off all the walls and out the window on Thursday with no loss of coherence.
We can't just be standing around in pure awareness all the time.
I agree that that's a thing that can't be achieved, which is why it's such a stroke of luck that it doesn't need to be. The kinds of brain processes involved in paying close attention to as much of what's going on as is perceptible are very slow and energy-intensive, so I think human beings and indeed most animals run on the autopilot we call "habit" most of the time; we'd all have been eaten by lions aeons ago were this not the case.
But standing around in pure awareness some of the time, especially after noticing that autopilot has been repeatedly driving us off into the weeds, is really valuable. Getting hung up in endless wrong-from-the-start internal bickering over which parts of our self-model are essential to having a sense of self unproductively restricts the ability to maintain that awareness and is therefore best minimized.
Having a sense of self just happens in people whose minds have not been torn to pieces by trauma; it's pretty much habitual. And people whose minds have been torn to pieces by trauma will have much bigger fish to fry than worry over owning a resting bitch face or acting habitually surly when at home.
Our deeper self (the one that could most approximate the true "us") is a more non-verbal side that is aware of all those competing desires, does not engage in battle with any of them, neither does it cede power.
The deeper I went into self-inquiry, the further I seemed to get from anything like satisfactory results. It wasn't until I stopped going deep and started widening the scope of what I allowed the word "self" to refer to that the I-am-this / now-describe-this two-step occurred to me.
So I no longer think of the "true me" as some core deep underneath, or inside, or obscured by all the negotiations and squabbling of the internal committee, but as the thing of which all of those other things are behaviours.
I agree that the true self is non-verbal, but mainly because formulating anything verbally is itself a behaviour i.e. something that the true self does and therefore less than what it is.
The idea of a self that "knew what it wanted all along" raises alarms for me. That sounds exactly like the kind of attribute that one of my last remaining illusions of ego-object-permanence used to use to defend its spurious claim to be me before I saw it, too, for what it was.
Working out what I want is pretty much the only justification for using an ego, and when the best it can offer is a thinly disguised post facto rationalization for what I actually did then that's a pretty weak-sauce effort probably not much worth repeating. Far better, I think, to eliminate as much over-sweetened illusory junk food from its diet of ideas as possible and then see what it can come up with.
posted by flabdablet at 10:56 AM on October 3, 2022
I mean another way to look at it, is that you are what other people think you are. To your colleagues at work you are probably a fairly nice person who is gregarious and friendly. To your close family, you are probably a mean-spirited asshole who snaps at them and makes them feel sad and alone. This is really the only accurate way to get a sense of who you are because it is actually real and measurable. What goes on in your head, and this whole concept of identity, is just thoughts inside your own head. Putin probably thinks he is a great guy. The people of Ukraine have a different opinion. Whose opinion is based on facts and is measurable? Whose opinion counts?
Put another way, who you are, is the sum of your responsibilties and commitments to others, and the degree to which you uphold these. If you feel distress about who you are, then good, you're supposed to feel distress, because you're hurting people. Stop hurting people and you will feel better.
posted by PercussivePaul at 4:39 PM on October 3, 2022
Put another way, who you are, is the sum of your responsibilties and commitments to others, and the degree to which you uphold these. If you feel distress about who you are, then good, you're supposed to feel distress, because you're hurting people. Stop hurting people and you will feel better.
posted by PercussivePaul at 4:39 PM on October 3, 2022
I have no sense from this question or the other one about your facial expression who, if anybody, is being mean. For your wife to watch you while you sleep and then report in the morning that your sleeping face looks A Way seems cruel, but there's no tone-of-voice cues or context, so it could be completely innocuous. Maybe you asked about it. Maybe she was gently teasing because this is the way you two have evolved to communicate with each other and it's actually sweet. Impossible to tell. On the flip, perhaps you are not merely occasionally tired and impatient but actually sometimes mean to your family. It's impossible to tell from just the evidence in this and the other question.
However:
From the evidence outside those two questions, a fuzzy picture emerges that might have clues. You don't have a huge footprint here, but you've answered some questions from people in pain quite kindly and sensitively, and if The True You were truly a cruel person, why would you have bothered? It's anonymous; you're not putting on a show for a crowd, just trying to help a fellow sufferer.
From the very tiny glimpse into You that we can get here, I'd say, aggregating everything, that it's at least possible you're a person who is very sensitive to criticism and likely to accept terminology that casts your behavior in the worst possible light. Someone who suffers from depression is not necessarily the best candidate to determine whether a particular criticism of their own character has merit or not, so that "this one hit hard" may be evidence against, not for, its being "truly true."
Besides: cruel abusive people get a kick out of their cruel abusive lifeways. They're not spending valuable time they could be spending having a blast being cruel and abusive composing questions on a website so they can ask the Internet to help them discover their true natures so that they can quit being cruel and abusive.
But again, there is not enough here to tell. I find "seek therapy" answers kind of boring usually, but in this case I concur completely. It would make a ton of sense for you both to go for couples' counseling so you can get an observer to listen to you and help sort this all out.
(If you do go, definitely take the tack Bottlecap's very excellent husband took in case your perception that the criticism is truly true is right. What a story!)
posted by Don Pepino at 7:41 PM on October 3, 2022 [3 favorites]
However:
From the evidence outside those two questions, a fuzzy picture emerges that might have clues. You don't have a huge footprint here, but you've answered some questions from people in pain quite kindly and sensitively, and if The True You were truly a cruel person, why would you have bothered? It's anonymous; you're not putting on a show for a crowd, just trying to help a fellow sufferer.
From the very tiny glimpse into You that we can get here, I'd say, aggregating everything, that it's at least possible you're a person who is very sensitive to criticism and likely to accept terminology that casts your behavior in the worst possible light. Someone who suffers from depression is not necessarily the best candidate to determine whether a particular criticism of their own character has merit or not, so that "this one hit hard" may be evidence against, not for, its being "truly true."
Besides: cruel abusive people get a kick out of their cruel abusive lifeways. They're not spending valuable time they could be spending having a blast being cruel and abusive composing questions on a website so they can ask the Internet to help them discover their true natures so that they can quit being cruel and abusive.
But again, there is not enough here to tell. I find "seek therapy" answers kind of boring usually, but in this case I concur completely. It would make a ton of sense for you both to go for couples' counseling so you can get an observer to listen to you and help sort this all out.
(If you do go, definitely take the tack Bottlecap's very excellent husband took in case your perception that the criticism is truly true is right. What a story!)
posted by Don Pepino at 7:41 PM on October 3, 2022 [3 favorites]
I am alarmed by a lot of these comments that seem to imply that cruelty and abuse that's limited to private interactions with one's spouse is a symptom of autism.
OP I think who you truly are is an abusive and cruel person. That is not to say that you're a monster and rotten to the core and inherently "bad". It does mean that you have habituated yourself to acting as if it's okay for you to be cruel and abusive to your wife. Your primary concern now needs to be:
- IMMEDIATELY make sure your wife is 100% safe from your cruelty and abuse (whether that means you moving out or something else)
- find professional help focused on behavioral modification and unlearn your abusive and cruel habits
- after you are well on your way in the behavior modification program, supplement that with personal therapy to work on your self-identity and self-concept questions
In other words, if you've just set a fire that's burning your house down, concentrate on putting out this fire first and foremost, then learn practical fire safety practices so that you don't set fires to other buildings, and THEN you can work on rebuilding your dream home. Asking us how to build your dream house while your current home is actively burning from the fire you just set is an indicator of just how habitual cruelty has become for you. (Not autistic.)
posted by MiraK at 11:13 AM on October 5, 2022 [1 favorite]
OP I think who you truly are is an abusive and cruel person. That is not to say that you're a monster and rotten to the core and inherently "bad". It does mean that you have habituated yourself to acting as if it's okay for you to be cruel and abusive to your wife. Your primary concern now needs to be:
- IMMEDIATELY make sure your wife is 100% safe from your cruelty and abuse (whether that means you moving out or something else)
- find professional help focused on behavioral modification and unlearn your abusive and cruel habits
- after you are well on your way in the behavior modification program, supplement that with personal therapy to work on your self-identity and self-concept questions
In other words, if you've just set a fire that's burning your house down, concentrate on putting out this fire first and foremost, then learn practical fire safety practices so that you don't set fires to other buildings, and THEN you can work on rebuilding your dream home. Asking us how to build your dream house while your current home is actively burning from the fire you just set is an indicator of just how habitual cruelty has become for you. (Not autistic.)
posted by MiraK at 11:13 AM on October 5, 2022 [1 favorite]
I am alarmed by a lot of these comments that seem to imply that cruelty and abuse that's limited to private interactions with one's spouse is a symptom of autism.
Just in case the asker of this question makes this same mistake. No one in this thread has suggested that you are autistic because you say that you are cruel and abusive in private .
The reasons are, among others, what you describe about your behaviour being different with different people, and your neutral expression being misinterpreted as angry, as well as some other points. Those are suggestive of autism.
And I would also like to amplify Don Pepino's insightful comment on how you judge your own behaviour.
"From the very tiny glimpse into You that we can get here, I'd say, aggregating everything, that it's at least possible you're a person who is very sensitive to criticism and likely to accept terminology that casts your behavior in the worst possible light. Someone who suffers from depression is not necessarily the best candidate to determine whether a particular criticism of their own character has merit or not, so that "this one hit hard" may be evidence against, not for, its being "truly true."
posted by Zumbador at 12:49 PM on October 5, 2022
Just in case the asker of this question makes this same mistake. No one in this thread has suggested that you are autistic because you say that you are cruel and abusive in private .
The reasons are, among others, what you describe about your behaviour being different with different people, and your neutral expression being misinterpreted as angry, as well as some other points. Those are suggestive of autism.
And I would also like to amplify Don Pepino's insightful comment on how you judge your own behaviour.
"From the very tiny glimpse into You that we can get here, I'd say, aggregating everything, that it's at least possible you're a person who is very sensitive to criticism and likely to accept terminology that casts your behavior in the worst possible light. Someone who suffers from depression is not necessarily the best candidate to determine whether a particular criticism of their own character has merit or not, so that "this one hit hard" may be evidence against, not for, its being "truly true."
posted by Zumbador at 12:49 PM on October 5, 2022
I don't really understand how "I snap at others and put on earphones and watch TV on my computer. I'm cruel to others and critical.... my cruelty borders on abuse" is not the start and end of the discussion. These are the only factual statements we have about OP's behavior, in their own words. How is this not a massive alarm, why is this not the central theme of this discussion, how come every single person here is not saying "stop hurting your partner!"?? I really don't get it.
posted by PercussivePaul at 3:10 PM on October 5, 2022 [3 favorites]
posted by PercussivePaul at 3:10 PM on October 5, 2022 [3 favorites]
this is the diagnostic criteria for autism. autism is a disorder that a professional can diagnose. the characteristics, as stated here, are very unlikely to be sufficient for a formal diagnosis. IANAPsychiatrist/ologist and, by the sound of things, nobody else here is either
if you are not a medical professional, probably don't diagnose people willy nilly online as this can often be actively harmful. there is an extremely small chance that you're correct and it becomes lifechanging for the OP but there is also a much higher chance that OP will waste a lot of time looking into it, pursuing treatments from non-medical sources, and/or experience distress about their state of health
if you have a hunch that there's a mental illness point them to a medical professional
which, by the by, it does sound like you might have a mood disorder of some kind that warrants therapy and likely a screening. I would recommend seeking a therapist and letting them know, well, everything you've described here
I also want to comment that philosophy of the self is fun and all, and values based living is a form of treatment within ACT but determining what your values are, the context for them, and reading philosophical treatises is a very long, complicated, intellectually-exhausting way of using a single therapeutic tool from a very large toolbox, and that this tool might not even work for you. you are better served seeking therapy, which is a very cool and good thing
posted by paimapi at 4:25 PM on October 5, 2022 [3 favorites]
if you are not a medical professional, probably don't diagnose people willy nilly online as this can often be actively harmful. there is an extremely small chance that you're correct and it becomes lifechanging for the OP but there is also a much higher chance that OP will waste a lot of time looking into it, pursuing treatments from non-medical sources, and/or experience distress about their state of health
if you have a hunch that there's a mental illness point them to a medical professional
which, by the by, it does sound like you might have a mood disorder of some kind that warrants therapy and likely a screening. I would recommend seeking a therapist and letting them know, well, everything you've described here
I also want to comment that philosophy of the self is fun and all, and values based living is a form of treatment within ACT but determining what your values are, the context for them, and reading philosophical treatises is a very long, complicated, intellectually-exhausting way of using a single therapeutic tool from a very large toolbox, and that this tool might not even work for you. you are better served seeking therapy, which is a very cool and good thing
posted by paimapi at 4:25 PM on October 5, 2022 [3 favorites]
how come every single person here is not saying "stop hurting your partner!"?? I really don't get it.
I didn't bother saying that because it seemed to me that the posting of the question had to have been motivated by the desire to do that very thing, and that the substance of the question was about the difficulty the OP was having in understanding how to go about doing it while still getting their own needs met.
If somebody asks for help with with losing weight, then being informed by all and sundry that they just need to eat less and exercise more is of no use to them whatsoever. If somebody asks for help with depression, they don't benefit from being emphatically told to cheer up. I think this is that kind of thing.
I_count_crows, could you perhaps clarify whether or not I have the right end of this particular stick?
posted by flabdablet at 12:22 PM on October 6, 2022 [2 favorites]
I didn't bother saying that because it seemed to me that the posting of the question had to have been motivated by the desire to do that very thing, and that the substance of the question was about the difficulty the OP was having in understanding how to go about doing it while still getting their own needs met.
If somebody asks for help with with losing weight, then being informed by all and sundry that they just need to eat less and exercise more is of no use to them whatsoever. If somebody asks for help with depression, they don't benefit from being emphatically told to cheer up. I think this is that kind of thing.
I_count_crows, could you perhaps clarify whether or not I have the right end of this particular stick?
posted by flabdablet at 12:22 PM on October 6, 2022 [2 favorites]
This thread is closed to new comments.
Working towards treating that anxiety would most likely bring you closer to a balance that is more 'you'.
posted by Adifferentbear at 12:39 AM on October 2, 2022 [21 favorites]