Chores & allowance in single-parent household
April 26, 2022 12:22 PM Subscribe
My girls (ages 9 & 13) are with me about 1/3 of the time. So far I’ve been woefully slack about having them do chores, and I want to change that. But the task is daunting, to say the least.
I’ve let things slide for various reasons, which mostly boil down to it’s just always seemed easiest, at least in the short term, to do things myself. This minimizes conflict and satisfies my neat-freak tendencies, but it also fosters entitlement and resentment.
I want to bite the bullet and teach them the responsibility of being part of a household, even if it is only part time. I grew up doing basically no chores (type A mom) which meant a lot of catching up as an adult. I don’t want to repeat that pattern.
But having limited time together complicates things. Being a single parent with two willful (and wonderful) kids is already exhausting. With Covid, incipient teenagerhood, and as-yet untreated ADHD and anxiety in my oldest (a whole other issue), sometimes it takes all my energy just to get us through the day in one piece.
The few chores I’ve tried to institute have resulted in frankly astonishing amounts of foot dragging, pushback and/or refusal. I don’t want to spend hours fighting over who sets the table or what qualifies as a clean toilet. Constantly having to navigate incentives and/or consequences is draining.
They’re also fond of pointing out that, because of the fractured schedule—no more than a few nights in a row—most of it is my trash/mess/laundry/etc. Yes, I know, but they do.
A few more factors:
Relations with my ex are not good, so unfortunately coordination between households isn't really feasible.
I’m happy to give them an allowance, which I have in the past. It just kind of faded away last year, which I was fine with because it felt like in some ways it actually encouraged materialism, but there’s talk about starting up again. I don’t want to connect it to chores, though, even if it’s tempting.
My oldest has started earning money from walking dogs and selling her paintings through Etsy, so I wonder about even giving her an allowance. She spends some of her earnings and is saving the rest for something big like a trip. This all happens at her mom’s house, in the form of piles of small bills and a debit card that usually stays there. She also has her own bathroom at my house, while her sister shares mine.
So in a nutshell, my question is how do I set up a reasonable and fair system of chores, combined with possibly restarting an allowance, while minimizing stress and conflict?
I’ve let things slide for various reasons, which mostly boil down to it’s just always seemed easiest, at least in the short term, to do things myself. This minimizes conflict and satisfies my neat-freak tendencies, but it also fosters entitlement and resentment.
I want to bite the bullet and teach them the responsibility of being part of a household, even if it is only part time. I grew up doing basically no chores (type A mom) which meant a lot of catching up as an adult. I don’t want to repeat that pattern.
But having limited time together complicates things. Being a single parent with two willful (and wonderful) kids is already exhausting. With Covid, incipient teenagerhood, and as-yet untreated ADHD and anxiety in my oldest (a whole other issue), sometimes it takes all my energy just to get us through the day in one piece.
The few chores I’ve tried to institute have resulted in frankly astonishing amounts of foot dragging, pushback and/or refusal. I don’t want to spend hours fighting over who sets the table or what qualifies as a clean toilet. Constantly having to navigate incentives and/or consequences is draining.
They’re also fond of pointing out that, because of the fractured schedule—no more than a few nights in a row—most of it is my trash/mess/laundry/etc. Yes, I know, but they do.
A few more factors:
Relations with my ex are not good, so unfortunately coordination between households isn't really feasible.
I’m happy to give them an allowance, which I have in the past. It just kind of faded away last year, which I was fine with because it felt like in some ways it actually encouraged materialism, but there’s talk about starting up again. I don’t want to connect it to chores, though, even if it’s tempting.
My oldest has started earning money from walking dogs and selling her paintings through Etsy, so I wonder about even giving her an allowance. She spends some of her earnings and is saving the rest for something big like a trip. This all happens at her mom’s house, in the form of piles of small bills and a debit card that usually stays there. She also has her own bathroom at my house, while her sister shares mine.
So in a nutshell, my question is how do I set up a reasonable and fair system of chores, combined with possibly restarting an allowance, while minimizing stress and conflict?
Can you institute a regular family cooperative cleanup time, rather than individual chores? That makes it easier to police (because it's obvious to everyone if somebody is goofing off instead of working), and makes it easy to also reward yourselves with a fun group activity at the end.
posted by Bardolph at 12:59 PM on April 26, 2022 [15 favorites]
posted by Bardolph at 12:59 PM on April 26, 2022 [15 favorites]
agree cleaning their own rooms makes sense. unloading dishwasher, setting table. straightening up messes they've made.
some parents I know have figured out how to train their kids to make dinner once a week. I have mad respect for these parents and think they're doing their kids a big favor to make sure they're competent in the kitchen; but I haven't figured out how to do this yet myself.
posted by fingersandtoes at 1:00 PM on April 26, 2022
some parents I know have figured out how to train their kids to make dinner once a week. I have mad respect for these parents and think they're doing their kids a big favor to make sure they're competent in the kitchen; but I haven't figured out how to do this yet myself.
posted by fingersandtoes at 1:00 PM on April 26, 2022
KC Davis (tiktok @domesticblisters & insta @strugglecare) has some great info.
I'd suggest starting with some of her early tiktok content.
She has ADHD and has two young kids, so I suspect there's some good overlap for you and your kiddos.
She reframes chores as "care tasks" and focuses on how to have a good relationship with keeping a house functional, starting with the fact that these issues are morally neutral. Functional for you might not work for me. For instance, doing laundry is morally neutral. If you hate folding clothes and as a result you have a big pile of clothes that makes getting dressed each morning difficult, then that task doesn't work for you. So... you can store your clothes in a different way. Neither choice (folded or unfolded) is morally better than the other. It's a matter of what is achievable for you and what best serves you and makes your household functional.
I also suggest you look at her closing duties concept - a small number of tasks you do each night to set yourself up for success the next day. It might include taking meds, making sure the kitchen is tidy enough to prepare breakfast, setting up coffee, etc. You make the list for yourself, so it's what is important to you. Your kids are old enough that they could be setting their own list of closing duties, plus maybe the 3 of you set some shared tasks that everyone agrees needs to happen daily.
posted by jenquat at 1:14 PM on April 26, 2022 [9 favorites]
I'd suggest starting with some of her early tiktok content.
She has ADHD and has two young kids, so I suspect there's some good overlap for you and your kiddos.
She reframes chores as "care tasks" and focuses on how to have a good relationship with keeping a house functional, starting with the fact that these issues are morally neutral. Functional for you might not work for me. For instance, doing laundry is morally neutral. If you hate folding clothes and as a result you have a big pile of clothes that makes getting dressed each morning difficult, then that task doesn't work for you. So... you can store your clothes in a different way. Neither choice (folded or unfolded) is morally better than the other. It's a matter of what is achievable for you and what best serves you and makes your household functional.
I also suggest you look at her closing duties concept - a small number of tasks you do each night to set yourself up for success the next day. It might include taking meds, making sure the kitchen is tidy enough to prepare breakfast, setting up coffee, etc. You make the list for yourself, so it's what is important to you. Your kids are old enough that they could be setting their own list of closing duties, plus maybe the 3 of you set some shared tasks that everyone agrees needs to happen daily.
posted by jenquat at 1:14 PM on April 26, 2022 [9 favorites]
My kids are with me half time and I know this struggle well. It doesn't seem like it should be that hard to be consistent about it when they're always here on the same days, but it really is. Like I want my daughter to be handling the dishwasher at her age and I constantly have to remind myself not to preemptively empty it so she can actually have a chance to do so. My boyfriend is in the same situation with his two children and we talk strategy and age-appropriate expectations a lot. All I can say is to stay firm and consistent and hold the line because yours are still youngish; I have been watching a very similar battle unfold with another friend who is getting divorced and his kids are all mid-teens who never were asked to do much in the way of chores until now and are flat-out not having it. You still have a chance!
I agree that if you can involve them in this discussion and planning, it would probably be very informative. I have no idea if this would hold any sway with your two but I can honestly say the most impactful conversations my kids and I have had about it is me pointing out without blame or anger but matter-of-factly that when we all pitch in, they immediately reap the benefits of a happier mom, a calmer home, and far more free time for us to do actual fun things. I can see how they would interpret chores as cleaning up your mess but the flip side is you cleaning up their mess after they leave, which they don't see. I agree it's probably going to be most immediately helpful to put the most structure around chores that intersect with the parts of the house they most actively use and touch. Are there any things at all that they hate less than others or at least have less friction around? Like no one loves doing chores but everyone can probably figure out one or two things they find less offensive than others if they really have to think about it. For some reason my kids are INTENSELY resistant to picking up their own toy messes by themselves, but they are reliably happy to queue up the robot vacuum, they will voluntarily wipe any surface they can see, they can at least understand the logic behind clearing their own dishes, putting away their own laundry, etc. Start with the things they won't feel the most acutely, even if they're not the most urgent or important, and then slowly work up from there.
I also make sure we are all always working at the same time, preferably in adjacent chores in a shared space as much as I can manage (they wipe the sink, I scrub the toilet, they spray the shower walls while I put in a new trash can liner in, etc. We all carry our laundry to the washer at the same time, sort into piles, turn socks right-side-out. When we take out the trash, I carry the garbage because it's the grossest, someone else carries the bag of cans and glass, and a third carries the broken-down Amazon boxes. And so on. It's inefficient at times and as much as I'd love to just issue a chore request and see it executed (or just see it executed without having to ask or oversee), I know we are working up to that point. The togetherness cuts through resistance more than anything else I've tried, and I figure after we have developed these well-worn grooves for awhile they will eventually become more autonomous. I was astounded the other day when one of them voluntarily scooped the cat box without me saying a thing, they walked by and noticed it needed tending and just did it, like OMG THAT IS THE GOAL!
We do allowance, a dollar per year of their age on Saturdays, distributed through Greenlight which has been amazing for our multiple-household family because it's one of the few allowance apps that allow multiple parents to connect to it. Their dad and I take turns adding money to the parent wallet and everything else about it is automated; you can pre-set dollar amounts or percentages for how much goes into spending/saving/giving/whatever. We do not tie it to chores but you could, there's functionality around that.
(Your daughter's paintings are gorgeous!)
posted by anderjen at 1:20 PM on April 26, 2022 [2 favorites]
I agree that if you can involve them in this discussion and planning, it would probably be very informative. I have no idea if this would hold any sway with your two but I can honestly say the most impactful conversations my kids and I have had about it is me pointing out without blame or anger but matter-of-factly that when we all pitch in, they immediately reap the benefits of a happier mom, a calmer home, and far more free time for us to do actual fun things. I can see how they would interpret chores as cleaning up your mess but the flip side is you cleaning up their mess after they leave, which they don't see. I agree it's probably going to be most immediately helpful to put the most structure around chores that intersect with the parts of the house they most actively use and touch. Are there any things at all that they hate less than others or at least have less friction around? Like no one loves doing chores but everyone can probably figure out one or two things they find less offensive than others if they really have to think about it. For some reason my kids are INTENSELY resistant to picking up their own toy messes by themselves, but they are reliably happy to queue up the robot vacuum, they will voluntarily wipe any surface they can see, they can at least understand the logic behind clearing their own dishes, putting away their own laundry, etc. Start with the things they won't feel the most acutely, even if they're not the most urgent or important, and then slowly work up from there.
I also make sure we are all always working at the same time, preferably in adjacent chores in a shared space as much as I can manage (they wipe the sink, I scrub the toilet, they spray the shower walls while I put in a new trash can liner in, etc. We all carry our laundry to the washer at the same time, sort into piles, turn socks right-side-out. When we take out the trash, I carry the garbage because it's the grossest, someone else carries the bag of cans and glass, and a third carries the broken-down Amazon boxes. And so on. It's inefficient at times and as much as I'd love to just issue a chore request and see it executed (or just see it executed without having to ask or oversee), I know we are working up to that point. The togetherness cuts through resistance more than anything else I've tried, and I figure after we have developed these well-worn grooves for awhile they will eventually become more autonomous. I was astounded the other day when one of them voluntarily scooped the cat box without me saying a thing, they walked by and noticed it needed tending and just did it, like OMG THAT IS THE GOAL!
We do allowance, a dollar per year of their age on Saturdays, distributed through Greenlight which has been amazing for our multiple-household family because it's one of the few allowance apps that allow multiple parents to connect to it. Their dad and I take turns adding money to the parent wallet and everything else about it is automated; you can pre-set dollar amounts or percentages for how much goes into spending/saving/giving/whatever. We do not tie it to chores but you could, there's functionality around that.
(Your daughter's paintings are gorgeous!)
posted by anderjen at 1:20 PM on April 26, 2022 [2 favorites]
I'd follow a chore chart of some sort, and add yourself to the chore chart for full transparency. If the girls see that you're also contributing, they may feel like more of a member of the team as opposed to you just handing out chores. I really like this approach - each day has a separate chore for each kid, plus they have a chore with each mealtime. They swap it up quarterly, I believe, so a routine is created, but they aren't stuck with the same chore forever. (granted, her method is probably way too many chores to start with for your kids, but 1 or 2 a week, plus a meal-related chore sounds reasonable).
posted by hydra77 at 1:32 PM on April 26, 2022 [1 favorite]
posted by hydra77 at 1:32 PM on April 26, 2022 [1 favorite]
We base the cleaning expectation on time rather than task-- which also feels more fair because my kids are different ages so the same task might take very different amounts of time. We set a timer for 10 minutes. Put on music. And go to town. I participate as well. We usually focus on one room and do it together or give options (dishes, sweeping) and the kids can pick. When the timer goes off, we're done. We usually do 10 minutes together after dinner and 10 minutes in the morning and the evening on weekends. So far it has worked pretty well. [Edited to add that my kids are 4 and 7, hence the short time window.]
The important thing for us was that the ask be extremely clear. I grew up being periodically yelled at for not cleaning up when it was never a skill that was expected or taught and it make me pretty angry and anxious. (Not saying that's what you're doing.) So my mindset is that learning how to clean is a skill that needs to be taught and a muscle that needs to be developed and shouldn't be shame-y or sporadic. Clarity and consistency are king. Good luck!
posted by jeszac at 1:33 PM on April 26, 2022 [3 favorites]
The important thing for us was that the ask be extremely clear. I grew up being periodically yelled at for not cleaning up when it was never a skill that was expected or taught and it make me pretty angry and anxious. (Not saying that's what you're doing.) So my mindset is that learning how to clean is a skill that needs to be taught and a muscle that needs to be developed and shouldn't be shame-y or sporadic. Clarity and consistency are king. Good luck!
posted by jeszac at 1:33 PM on April 26, 2022 [3 favorites]
I liked The Opposite of Spoiled by Ron Lieber. As briefly as possible, his argument is that an allowance shouldn't be payment for services rendered by doing chores.
An allowance is a tool to teach lessons around patience, thrift, modesty, generosity, perseverance, and perspective. Set an allowance and have them divvy it up into separate "accounts" for giving, saving, and spending so they can learn those lessons.
Chores are part of the household work that needs to be done without any one being paid. It's not a job; it's a responsibility. Other privileges can be withheld if they don't contribute, and on the flip side, being industrious and entrepreneurial can be financially rewarded.
That said, we've definitely fallen into the "it's easier and faster for me to do it" often, even when we know that isn't the best for everyone in the long run. Regardless of which path you choose for chores and an allowance, you have to fight your animal brain telling you not to change the status quo because it isn't intolerably bad and intentionally work to make the positive things habitual.
posted by hankscorpio83 at 1:35 PM on April 26, 2022 [4 favorites]
An allowance is a tool to teach lessons around patience, thrift, modesty, generosity, perseverance, and perspective. Set an allowance and have them divvy it up into separate "accounts" for giving, saving, and spending so they can learn those lessons.
Chores are part of the household work that needs to be done without any one being paid. It's not a job; it's a responsibility. Other privileges can be withheld if they don't contribute, and on the flip side, being industrious and entrepreneurial can be financially rewarded.
That said, we've definitely fallen into the "it's easier and faster for me to do it" often, even when we know that isn't the best for everyone in the long run. Regardless of which path you choose for chores and an allowance, you have to fight your animal brain telling you not to change the status quo because it isn't intolerably bad and intentionally work to make the positive things habitual.
posted by hankscorpio83 at 1:35 PM on April 26, 2022 [4 favorites]
I'd come up with a list of chores and ask them to choose which they prefer. That might be one place to start.
posted by bluedaisy at 1:43 PM on April 26, 2022
posted by bluedaisy at 1:43 PM on April 26, 2022
some parents I know have figured out how to train their kids to make dinner once a week.
I was a bit older than these kids when I started cooking full meals on my own, but my mom started me on this path when I was the age of the OPs kids by having me help her with meal prep. Once I could safely use a knife, she's have me do things like chop veggies - and of course a lot of prep is safe for young kids - eg. slather the chicken with oil, salt, and pepper. Makes the transition to "Why don't you plan out a meal and make it" a bit easier.
Also, I like all of the suggestions encouraging you to be clear as to why this is *good* for them. Household management, learning to cook, learning to clean, these are all life skills that will be benefit from as adults.
posted by coffeecat at 1:44 PM on April 26, 2022
I was a bit older than these kids when I started cooking full meals on my own, but my mom started me on this path when I was the age of the OPs kids by having me help her with meal prep. Once I could safely use a knife, she's have me do things like chop veggies - and of course a lot of prep is safe for young kids - eg. slather the chicken with oil, salt, and pepper. Makes the transition to "Why don't you plan out a meal and make it" a bit easier.
Also, I like all of the suggestions encouraging you to be clear as to why this is *good* for them. Household management, learning to cook, learning to clean, these are all life skills that will be benefit from as adults.
posted by coffeecat at 1:44 PM on April 26, 2022
We got my kids (8 and 13) Greenlight debit cards about a year ago. They and I have an app that tracks how much money they have and they get money every Sunday that is tied to chores. Their app has a list of chores they can check off and there is the ability to add one off chores.
On the money management side I can set it so that their allowance goes partially to savings and partially to ‘spend anywhere’. And it keeps a history of where they spend their money.
So, I know you said you didn’t want to tie to to allowance but we really like the app and that’s what we did. At the same time we had a family discussion that we are all in it together and we all have to contribute and it’s not optional.
As far as what chores we started off light, they each have a couple of what I consider ‘free’ chores (get ready for school, brush your teeth) a daily chore (pick up living area for roomba to run, empty the dishwasher) and weekly chores (clean your room, get your laundry ready)
They’ve been pretty good about doing the chores and not arguing. We are thinking about adding some chores for summer and raising their allowance.
posted by MadMadam at 2:25 PM on April 26, 2022
On the money management side I can set it so that their allowance goes partially to savings and partially to ‘spend anywhere’. And it keeps a history of where they spend their money.
So, I know you said you didn’t want to tie to to allowance but we really like the app and that’s what we did. At the same time we had a family discussion that we are all in it together and we all have to contribute and it’s not optional.
As far as what chores we started off light, they each have a couple of what I consider ‘free’ chores (get ready for school, brush your teeth) a daily chore (pick up living area for roomba to run, empty the dishwasher) and weekly chores (clean your room, get your laundry ready)
They’ve been pretty good about doing the chores and not arguing. We are thinking about adding some chores for summer and raising their allowance.
posted by MadMadam at 2:25 PM on April 26, 2022
I'm in a similar situation to you, single parent with no coordination between households. A few things that have worked....
- Each kid gets a small weekly allowance just for learning how to manage money and have some economic agency in the world. They are encouraged to save/share/spend, but I don't force it.
- They are expected to do chores because they contribute to the healthy, happy functioning of a home life with other people. For me, the firm message was "We will all contribute and have chores." The soft message was, "I'm open to who does what and to navigating what works for us all."
- I found it helpful to start from a giant list of stuff that actually gets done (mostly by me), and to highlight the smaller set of things I would like them to help with. It's a reality check for them about how much really goes on under the surface, and also a relief when they see I'm not talking about them doing eVerRytHiNg. When we talk about who can do what, it's clearer for them to see what is fair.
- When we started out, I did each chore with them a few times so they knew where to find the supplies, how to do the task, what constituted "clean," and "what if?": What if there's no more toilet paper? What if a glass breaks in the dishwasher? Etc. They don't always keep those original cleaning standards. About 60% of the time I let it go (aka, choose my battles and conserve my strength) and 30% of the time I politely request, e.g., "Would you please put a new bag in the garbage when you take it out?" or "Would you please put the hand towel in the dirty laundry when you tidy the bathroom?"
- One key thing I learned was to alternate chores monthly. I will never, ever, ever alternate chores daily again! Every change-over in responsibilities was an opportunity for them to complain or find fault with the job or person who did the job last and it was maddening to push through this every day. So now chores change over monthly: time enough to get good at it, to own the sustained energy it takes, and to factor it into their own changing schedules in a way that works for them. On the first of each month, I pick up slack without complaint so that, for instance, the person who loaded the dishwasher the night before isn't the same person unloading the dishwasher the next morning.
- They have the opportunity to earn a bonus each week if they do their chores without being asked. That is, they notice when things need to be done and do them proactively so that I don't have to ask, nag, yell, etc. Since they are boys and I am a woman, an added incentive to build this skill is worth it to me (and hopefully to them in the long term).
- They also have the opportunity to earn more money with some seasonal chores like gutter cleaning, weeding, etc.
- We've migrated from everyone tidying at the same time, with music on, to each of us doing what needs to be done as it works for our own schedules and to meet any deadlines like trash day. They're teens and have neither the interest nor the scheduling overlap to clean as a family anymore.
posted by KneeHiSocks at 2:41 PM on April 26, 2022 [2 favorites]
- Each kid gets a small weekly allowance just for learning how to manage money and have some economic agency in the world. They are encouraged to save/share/spend, but I don't force it.
- They are expected to do chores because they contribute to the healthy, happy functioning of a home life with other people. For me, the firm message was "We will all contribute and have chores." The soft message was, "I'm open to who does what and to navigating what works for us all."
- I found it helpful to start from a giant list of stuff that actually gets done (mostly by me), and to highlight the smaller set of things I would like them to help with. It's a reality check for them about how much really goes on under the surface, and also a relief when they see I'm not talking about them doing eVerRytHiNg. When we talk about who can do what, it's clearer for them to see what is fair.
- When we started out, I did each chore with them a few times so they knew where to find the supplies, how to do the task, what constituted "clean," and "what if?": What if there's no more toilet paper? What if a glass breaks in the dishwasher? Etc. They don't always keep those original cleaning standards. About 60% of the time I let it go (aka, choose my battles and conserve my strength) and 30% of the time I politely request, e.g., "Would you please put a new bag in the garbage when you take it out?" or "Would you please put the hand towel in the dirty laundry when you tidy the bathroom?"
- One key thing I learned was to alternate chores monthly. I will never, ever, ever alternate chores daily again! Every change-over in responsibilities was an opportunity for them to complain or find fault with the job or person who did the job last and it was maddening to push through this every day. So now chores change over monthly: time enough to get good at it, to own the sustained energy it takes, and to factor it into their own changing schedules in a way that works for them. On the first of each month, I pick up slack without complaint so that, for instance, the person who loaded the dishwasher the night before isn't the same person unloading the dishwasher the next morning.
- They have the opportunity to earn a bonus each week if they do their chores without being asked. That is, they notice when things need to be done and do them proactively so that I don't have to ask, nag, yell, etc. Since they are boys and I am a woman, an added incentive to build this skill is worth it to me (and hopefully to them in the long term).
- They also have the opportunity to earn more money with some seasonal chores like gutter cleaning, weeding, etc.
- We've migrated from everyone tidying at the same time, with music on, to each of us doing what needs to be done as it works for our own schedules and to meet any deadlines like trash day. They're teens and have neither the interest nor the scheduling overlap to clean as a family anymore.
posted by KneeHiSocks at 2:41 PM on April 26, 2022 [2 favorites]
Except in cases where household jobs have been consciously organized communally with kids from the very beginning of their ability to push a little broom, most tweens and early teens that I know are not cleaning toilets, even in houses where they use the bathroom every day. Dishwasher tasks, sweeping, folding laundry, vacuuming, taking out the trash, cleaning mirrors, cooking easy meals -- those (and not too many in a day either of course!) are more typical chores for kids, in addition to cleaning up their own messes. This is even truer if they are part time. It's great to instill responsibility, but you don't have to go from zero to 60 all at once -- it will be much much easier if you make it feel fair and collaborative.
posted by nantucket at 3:55 PM on April 26, 2022 [2 favorites]
posted by nantucket at 3:55 PM on April 26, 2022 [2 favorites]
It seems like there are some real issues going on under the surface that may actually be affecting this question, because your daughter's response to chores, as stated by you, is not normal. You say,
This makes me think there are maybe some issues in your relationship - with two potential options.
First:
you say,
This minimizes conflict and satisfies my neat-freak tendencies, but it also fosters entitlement and resentment.
but you also say,
because of the fractured schedule—no more than a few nights in a row—most of it is my trash/mess/laundry/etc
These things can't both be true: you can't both be a 'neat-freak' and also be piling up trash/mess/laundry that waits for them to come over to clean it, when they're only there 1/3 of the time. If you clean your own things and do your own laundry, then when they come over, by virtue of there being two of them and one of you, any mess would be mostly their own. Your reference to "entitlement and resentment" if you don't ask the kids to do chores also puzzles me - do you feel like your children are "entitled" when they don't do chores when they're essentially home for the equivalent of a weekend? Do you resent cleaning after them? If so, of course they're going to pick up on it and chores are going to be just another thing you fight over - their perception that they are just labor for you rather than a valued and cherished part of your household.
Another possibility is that the kids have their own feelings about the divorce. In previous questions, you mention that you are "two years into a very contentious divorce" with your ex-wife, with most of the conflict being about parenting, and she started seriously dating another man about six months into the relationship, so about a year and a half ago, who she appears to still be with from one of your other questions, I wonder if the chores are really a standin for how your kids feel about the two households or possibly the divorce itself? If so, I would work on solving that before I attempted to solve the chores issue.
posted by corb at 4:09 PM on April 26, 2022 [7 favorites]
The few chores I’ve tried to institute have resulted in frankly astonishing amounts of foot dragging, pushback and/or refusal. I don’t want to spend hours fighting over who sets the table or what qualifies as a clean toilet.Both of the examples you've given seem kind of concerning. First, why are you having the kids scrub toilets? They can learn by watching you at both these ages, no need to have them do what is essentially a deep-clean chore on their few visitation days. Additionally, giving them the messiest, and also grossest, chore, is of course going to have pushback. Secondly, why would asking them to set the table be an hours long fight? That's usually a chore kids either love or don't care about - you throw out some napkins, throw out some silverware, maybe some plates and glasses, and call it a day.
This makes me think there are maybe some issues in your relationship - with two potential options.
First:
you say,
This minimizes conflict and satisfies my neat-freak tendencies, but it also fosters entitlement and resentment.
but you also say,
because of the fractured schedule—no more than a few nights in a row—most of it is my trash/mess/laundry/etc
These things can't both be true: you can't both be a 'neat-freak' and also be piling up trash/mess/laundry that waits for them to come over to clean it, when they're only there 1/3 of the time. If you clean your own things and do your own laundry, then when they come over, by virtue of there being two of them and one of you, any mess would be mostly their own. Your reference to "entitlement and resentment" if you don't ask the kids to do chores also puzzles me - do you feel like your children are "entitled" when they don't do chores when they're essentially home for the equivalent of a weekend? Do you resent cleaning after them? If so, of course they're going to pick up on it and chores are going to be just another thing you fight over - their perception that they are just labor for you rather than a valued and cherished part of your household.
Another possibility is that the kids have their own feelings about the divorce. In previous questions, you mention that you are "two years into a very contentious divorce" with your ex-wife, with most of the conflict being about parenting, and she started seriously dating another man about six months into the relationship, so about a year and a half ago, who she appears to still be with from one of your other questions, I wonder if the chores are really a standin for how your kids feel about the two households or possibly the divorce itself? If so, I would work on solving that before I attempted to solve the chores issue.
posted by corb at 4:09 PM on April 26, 2022 [7 favorites]
I suggest just making sure they tidy up / clean their own room(s), and maybe bathroom too. You should face less resistance that way because they can't argue that they are not the ones who made that area need tidying up /cleaning. My personal opinion is that you shouldn't tie an allowance to doing chores because it kind of defeats your purpose - you are extrinsically incentivizing them to do this work rather than making it a natural part of lives of partial self-sufficiency.
posted by Dansaman at 4:47 PM on April 26, 2022
posted by Dansaman at 4:47 PM on April 26, 2022
Make sure that you rotate in on these things so it doesn't come across gendered.
posted by fluttering hellfire at 4:57 PM on April 26, 2022
posted by fluttering hellfire at 4:57 PM on April 26, 2022
I think starting with a chore list from the place you're at now (1/3 time custody, no history of regular chores) would be pretty difficult. Frankly, if you're asking them to suddenly clean a bathroom (a gross, in-depth task) for a bathroom they only use themselves a couple days out of the week, I'm not surprised at the push-back.
So I'd step way, way back and consider the goal of chores. 1: They learn the importance and value of regular cleaning. 2: They learn how to complete chores. (You'll notice that "3: The house gets cleaned" isn't on that list. That's a benefit of kids doing chores, but not the end state until they have a lot of practice and self-sufficiency. Don't go into it expecting that now, especially if you have "type A" standards. You're focused on them, not on outcomes.)
For 1, I would have them clean up their own messes. That's the only regular, ongoing expectation. Clear and simple. This can also start really small if you need, like, "put your shoes and backpack at the door at night", and slowly work up full bedroom tidying. They should know ahead of time what "counts" as complete and have the method taught if that's not clear. I'd recommend picking their rooms up for them to "reset" it before they start, so they have the easiest time possible rather than having to "dig out"- and so that you can proof test it yourself and make sure that, e.g., there's an easy spot for everything to go. I'd also recommend providing a deadline, like "have this done by 11:00 on Saturday", rather than a command, like "go do this right now". That empowers kids to organize their own schedule and energy, and creates less "aw, parent is ending my fun" grumbling. They're fighting a schedule - just like you're cleaning until 11:00 - not you.
For 2, I would not actually assign any another chore. I would simply teach. Have them shadow you while you explain how to, e.g., do laundry, step-by-step. Explain how to trouble-shoot common problems and how often the chore should get done. Their only job is to pay attention. Next time, they'll participate while you do the heavy lifting so that you can see they know what to do. The third time, they'll do it while you monitor. But you're still ultimately responsible here - they're participating in, not "doing" the chore. This does not have to be a set it stone regular thing like the tidying expectation. This can fit with your schedule and theirs, and rotate around the house. After you're satisfied that they can handle the task, you've succeeded - you've taught the chore! As time goes you can let them occasionally choose between doing a chore on their own versus learning a new one, which keeps old skills fresh while teaching new ones and gives them power in the situation.
This way even if things never got "better" day-to-day, you've still met your goals. They'll still become adults knowing when and how to do everything, and have some practice in both regular tidying and completing different jobs. But I bet things actually will get better if you step way, way back on expectations for now. Rather than sweeping in with a new The Plan (tm), they're only being asked to spend a few minutes here and there on life skills, but as that time adds up they'll very likely feel more comfortable and empowered to step in on chores once you are ready for a regular schedule.
posted by hapaxes.legomenon at 8:24 PM on April 26, 2022 [5 favorites]
So I'd step way, way back and consider the goal of chores. 1: They learn the importance and value of regular cleaning. 2: They learn how to complete chores. (You'll notice that "3: The house gets cleaned" isn't on that list. That's a benefit of kids doing chores, but not the end state until they have a lot of practice and self-sufficiency. Don't go into it expecting that now, especially if you have "type A" standards. You're focused on them, not on outcomes.)
For 1, I would have them clean up their own messes. That's the only regular, ongoing expectation. Clear and simple. This can also start really small if you need, like, "put your shoes and backpack at the door at night", and slowly work up full bedroom tidying. They should know ahead of time what "counts" as complete and have the method taught if that's not clear. I'd recommend picking their rooms up for them to "reset" it before they start, so they have the easiest time possible rather than having to "dig out"- and so that you can proof test it yourself and make sure that, e.g., there's an easy spot for everything to go. I'd also recommend providing a deadline, like "have this done by 11:00 on Saturday", rather than a command, like "go do this right now". That empowers kids to organize their own schedule and energy, and creates less "aw, parent is ending my fun" grumbling. They're fighting a schedule - just like you're cleaning until 11:00 - not you.
For 2, I would not actually assign any another chore. I would simply teach. Have them shadow you while you explain how to, e.g., do laundry, step-by-step. Explain how to trouble-shoot common problems and how often the chore should get done. Their only job is to pay attention. Next time, they'll participate while you do the heavy lifting so that you can see they know what to do. The third time, they'll do it while you monitor. But you're still ultimately responsible here - they're participating in, not "doing" the chore. This does not have to be a set it stone regular thing like the tidying expectation. This can fit with your schedule and theirs, and rotate around the house. After you're satisfied that they can handle the task, you've succeeded - you've taught the chore! As time goes you can let them occasionally choose between doing a chore on their own versus learning a new one, which keeps old skills fresh while teaching new ones and gives them power in the situation.
This way even if things never got "better" day-to-day, you've still met your goals. They'll still become adults knowing when and how to do everything, and have some practice in both regular tidying and completing different jobs. But I bet things actually will get better if you step way, way back on expectations for now. Rather than sweeping in with a new The Plan (tm), they're only being asked to spend a few minutes here and there on life skills, but as that time adds up they'll very likely feel more comfortable and empowered to step in on chores once you are ready for a regular schedule.
posted by hapaxes.legomenon at 8:24 PM on April 26, 2022 [5 favorites]
My kids have their own bedrooms and a shared bathroom that they’re expected to keep tidy, and a pet that they have to feed and keep its cage clean. I started by saying these chores needed to be done and asked who would like to do what so they chose the chores they wanted to do.
Now while I do expect the pet to be looked after (which it generally is) I don’t expect perfection with the bathroom but I do want that kid to at least make an effort with it. Generally I find if the bathroom hasn’t been cleaned all week after asking a few times, I’ll deal with it by turning off the internet and tell them that when the chore is done, they can use their phone again. That normally does the trick in a way that nagging never achieves.
We also help them clean their room by decluttering regularly so there’s less to put away and show them the best way to clean the bathroom, I’ll generally do mine at the same time then there’s a sense of ‘we’re all cleaning up together’.
My kids are mostly pretty good - we’ve been giving them small chores to do since they were very young just to get them used to the idea of contributing to the household. While they get pocket money, it’s not tied to their normal chores because cleaning up after yourself is just a part of being a person and not something you should get rewarded for, having said that if they do extra things like help tidy the garage or do gardening, we’ll give them extra pocket money.
We also talk about why they’re having to do this, because they complain that most of their friends don’t do chores. I explain that these are life skills they need to know, along with things like cooking (which they love doing and don’t view as a job) and that is my role as a parent to teach them so that they can look after themselves when they’re adults and that their future partners or flat mates will appreciate it.
posted by Jubey at 11:58 PM on April 26, 2022
Now while I do expect the pet to be looked after (which it generally is) I don’t expect perfection with the bathroom but I do want that kid to at least make an effort with it. Generally I find if the bathroom hasn’t been cleaned all week after asking a few times, I’ll deal with it by turning off the internet and tell them that when the chore is done, they can use their phone again. That normally does the trick in a way that nagging never achieves.
We also help them clean their room by decluttering regularly so there’s less to put away and show them the best way to clean the bathroom, I’ll generally do mine at the same time then there’s a sense of ‘we’re all cleaning up together’.
My kids are mostly pretty good - we’ve been giving them small chores to do since they were very young just to get them used to the idea of contributing to the household. While they get pocket money, it’s not tied to their normal chores because cleaning up after yourself is just a part of being a person and not something you should get rewarded for, having said that if they do extra things like help tidy the garage or do gardening, we’ll give them extra pocket money.
We also talk about why they’re having to do this, because they complain that most of their friends don’t do chores. I explain that these are life skills they need to know, along with things like cooking (which they love doing and don’t view as a job) and that is my role as a parent to teach them so that they can look after themselves when they’re adults and that their future partners or flat mates will appreciate it.
posted by Jubey at 11:58 PM on April 26, 2022
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Doing dishes is a good example. Or their own laundry. Certainly cleaning their own rooms, assuming they stay clean between their visits.
posted by redlines at 12:43 PM on April 26, 2022 [9 favorites]