Looking for really complex classical music
April 16, 2022 11:38 AM Subscribe
I don't know a whole lot about classical music, but I know that I love Bach, and so I'm looking for similar music. What is the most complex classical music that you know of?
Would appreciate recommendations for composers, pieces of music, as well as specific performances. The more specific the better! Bonus points if it's available for MP3 purchase on Amazon, or if it's available on a streaming service.
I do prefer instrumental pieces, although some opera is okay if it's really, really, really good.
Would appreciate recommendations for composers, pieces of music, as well as specific performances. The more specific the better! Bonus points if it's available for MP3 purchase on Amazon, or if it's available on a streaming service.
I do prefer instrumental pieces, although some opera is okay if it's really, really, really good.
Best answer: Beethoven's string quartets are beautiful puzzle box novels which get more complex towards the end of his life. His grosse fuge is quite something but honestly I'd recommend starting with op.18 no.1 and working forwards from there.
posted by Lotto at 12:15 PM on April 16, 2022 [3 favorites]
posted by Lotto at 12:15 PM on April 16, 2022 [3 favorites]
Looking forward to other answers. I'm not sure they're actually similar, but things that give me the same chills as my favorite Bach:
Keith Jarret's Köln Concert (not easy to find online for free - don't bother with covers)
Everything by Zbignew Priesner.
Most things by Zoe Keating.
Most things by Sqwonk.
Much weirder and improvised, but for some reason it reminds me of the lighter bits of Bach: Flûte de Pan et Orgue. There are more than two hours of the full album, it seems only the first disc is easy to find for free.
(I'm feeling some déjà vu, but can't figure out what the previous question was.)
posted by eotvos at 12:38 PM on April 16, 2022 [2 favorites]
Keith Jarret's Köln Concert (not easy to find online for free - don't bother with covers)
Everything by Zbignew Priesner.
Most things by Zoe Keating.
Most things by Sqwonk.
Much weirder and improvised, but for some reason it reminds me of the lighter bits of Bach: Flûte de Pan et Orgue. There are more than two hours of the full album, it seems only the first disc is easy to find for free.
(I'm feeling some déjà vu, but can't figure out what the previous question was.)
posted by eotvos at 12:38 PM on April 16, 2022 [2 favorites]
I'm learning some Sir Michael Tippett right now, and THAT guy is complex. Check out the Ritual Dances from A Midsummer Marriage.
If you like them, you may also like Richard Strauss's tone poems.
Alex Ross's book on 20th century music, The Rest Is Noise, may help you find more.
Bach is the geometry of God, and no one matches him for that. But you could check out his kids-- CPE Bach and JC Bach are the best-known, but many of the others also composed.
If you want music by Bach's contemporaries, and you're on Facebook, try asking this question in the Early Music Facebook group.
Alternatively: Bach was a huge influence in the early 20th century jazz scene. Duke Ellington, Thelonious Monk and Oscar Peterson all have some Bach in their musical DNA, and were making some of the most complex music of their time.
posted by Pallas Athena at 12:53 PM on April 16, 2022 [2 favorites]
If you like them, you may also like Richard Strauss's tone poems.
Alex Ross's book on 20th century music, The Rest Is Noise, may help you find more.
Bach is the geometry of God, and no one matches him for that. But you could check out his kids-- CPE Bach and JC Bach are the best-known, but many of the others also composed.
If you want music by Bach's contemporaries, and you're on Facebook, try asking this question in the Early Music Facebook group.
Alternatively: Bach was a huge influence in the early 20th century jazz scene. Duke Ellington, Thelonious Monk and Oscar Peterson all have some Bach in their musical DNA, and were making some of the most complex music of their time.
posted by Pallas Athena at 12:53 PM on April 16, 2022 [2 favorites]
This is a choral piece, but it's very complex. Spem in Alium is motet for 40 voices written by Thomas Tallis. I have the Tallis Scholars recording.
posted by Lycaste at 1:33 PM on April 16, 2022 [8 favorites]
posted by Lycaste at 1:33 PM on April 16, 2022 [8 favorites]
For a 20th century take on counterpoint, you could try Paul Hindemith. He wrote an absolute ton of music, and a lot of it is honestly chaff, but I love the Concerto for Orchestra and Kammermusik Nr. 7 (an organ concerto with a very metal finale).
Bartók's idiom is totally different, but has a similar brain-pleasing density of ideas. The piano concertos could be a good place to start (e.g. No. 2 performed by Géza Anda).
I'll be watching this thread for sure!
posted by aws17576 at 1:49 PM on April 16, 2022 [1 favorite]
Bartók's idiom is totally different, but has a similar brain-pleasing density of ideas. The piano concertos could be a good place to start (e.g. No. 2 performed by Géza Anda).
I'll be watching this thread for sure!
posted by aws17576 at 1:49 PM on April 16, 2022 [1 favorite]
Hamelin's Circus Galop (favorite rendition here).
posted by They sucked his brains out! at 1:55 PM on April 16, 2022 [1 favorite]
posted by They sucked his brains out! at 1:55 PM on April 16, 2022 [1 favorite]
One performer that I really love to hear is Patricia Kopatchinskaja, who plays a very diverse violin repertoire. If you like complex, you might enjoy her recording of Vivaldi - here’s another that includes some Bach but is much more sparse & austere.
posted by rd45 at 1:58 PM on April 16, 2022 [1 favorite]
posted by rd45 at 1:58 PM on April 16, 2022 [1 favorite]
Since you like Bach: Scarlatti might be of interest to you.
Although not instrumental the choral works of Gesualdo is often considered harmonically complex, and way ahead of its time in terms of compositional technique, absolutely beautiful to my ears at least. Interesting tidbit about Gesualdo, he murdered his wife and her lover after he found her cheating on him, but he got a pardon of some kind and got away with the murder.
Sorabji, a contemporary composer, who does not really sound anything like Bach. Thought I'd include him in the list since he definitely has complexity.
posted by YellowSuB at 2:32 PM on April 16, 2022 [2 favorites]
Although not instrumental the choral works of Gesualdo is often considered harmonically complex, and way ahead of its time in terms of compositional technique, absolutely beautiful to my ears at least. Interesting tidbit about Gesualdo, he murdered his wife and her lover after he found her cheating on him, but he got a pardon of some kind and got away with the murder.
Sorabji, a contemporary composer, who does not really sound anything like Bach. Thought I'd include him in the list since he definitely has complexity.
posted by YellowSuB at 2:32 PM on April 16, 2022 [2 favorites]
Concur for Thomas Tallis, who I believe holds a record for the largest number of separate vocal parts in a pre-modern arrangement.
Carlo Gesualdo (a contemporary of Tallis) is notorious for composing some of the strangest multi-part vocal arrangements in the Renaissance repertory, if that counts as complex (I think so).
Several Renaissance and pre-Renaissance composers used thick polyphony which "sounds" complicated, but JS did his personal version so well that it's hard to peg anyone doing work like him that's really any better. It's an interesting question.
posted by ovvl at 2:44 PM on April 16, 2022 [1 favorite]
Carlo Gesualdo (a contemporary of Tallis) is notorious for composing some of the strangest multi-part vocal arrangements in the Renaissance repertory, if that counts as complex (I think so).
Several Renaissance and pre-Renaissance composers used thick polyphony which "sounds" complicated, but JS did his personal version so well that it's hard to peg anyone doing work like him that's really any better. It's an interesting question.
posted by ovvl at 2:44 PM on April 16, 2022 [1 favorite]
The early Baroque composer who influenced Bach: Dieterich Buxtehude.
A 20th century composer who sometimes reminds me of Bach even though he's different: Astor Piazzolla, who wasn't quite polyphonic but used lively melodies in interesting ways.
posted by ovvl at 3:26 PM on April 16, 2022 [3 favorites]
A 20th century composer who sometimes reminds me of Bach even though he's different: Astor Piazzolla, who wasn't quite polyphonic but used lively melodies in interesting ways.
posted by ovvl at 3:26 PM on April 16, 2022 [3 favorites]
As good as Bach is (and he is, of course, much, much more than good), I prefer the late romantics/early modern composers. Besides Wagner (who is all opera, all the time), my favorite is Gustav Mahler, who was himself a premiere interpreter of Wagner in his day. He wrote nine symphonies of his own, of which the first two are my favorites. We're talking huge orchestra, complex yet very melodic music, and, with the second, the addition of offstage instruments, a choir, organ, and vocal soloists.
My understanding is two great recordings of all nine of his symphonies are by Leonard Bernstein and the New York Philharmonic (available via MP3 on Amazon), and by Michael Tilson Thomas, available on Apple Music and probably others. I grew up with the Eugene Ormandy/Philadelphia Orchestra recording of the Second, which I believe is unavailable today, and currently I'm enjoying the Leonard Slatkin/St. Louis Symphony recording, which I've had for many years on CD.
I'm not generally a fan of very modern music, but several years ago Esa-Pekka Salonen's 2009 Out Of Nowhere - Violin Concerto (Amazon Music) was featured in a commerical for the original iPad Air (SLVimeo), and I fell in love with it. It might not be your cup of tea, and I'm still surprised it's mine!
posted by lhauser at 3:59 PM on April 16, 2022 [3 favorites]
My understanding is two great recordings of all nine of his symphonies are by Leonard Bernstein and the New York Philharmonic (available via MP3 on Amazon), and by Michael Tilson Thomas, available on Apple Music and probably others. I grew up with the Eugene Ormandy/Philadelphia Orchestra recording of the Second, which I believe is unavailable today, and currently I'm enjoying the Leonard Slatkin/St. Louis Symphony recording, which I've had for many years on CD.
I'm not generally a fan of very modern music, but several years ago Esa-Pekka Salonen's 2009 Out Of Nowhere - Violin Concerto (Amazon Music) was featured in a commerical for the original iPad Air (SLVimeo), and I fell in love with it. It might not be your cup of tea, and I'm still surprised it's mine!
posted by lhauser at 3:59 PM on April 16, 2022 [3 favorites]
If you haven't already heard it, you might enjoy Morimur, an interpretation of Bach's 2nd violin partita by Christoph Poppen and the Hilliard Ensemble. Hearing voices singing along with the solo violin is sublime.
posted by kingless at 4:27 PM on April 16, 2022 [1 favorite]
posted by kingless at 4:27 PM on April 16, 2022 [1 favorite]
It sounds like you might be interested in polyphony. Try Palestrina's Missa Papae Marcelli.
posted by praemunire at 4:52 PM on April 16, 2022 [2 favorites]
posted by praemunire at 4:52 PM on April 16, 2022 [2 favorites]
I thought of Dmitri Shostakovich, who shares a similar "spikiness" with Bach and has a similarly geometric feel. His work is full of the tension between the composer he wants to be and the constraints imposed on artists in Stalin's Russia.
Here's his String Quartet number 8: to the victims of fascism and war.
posted by Pallas Athena at 5:37 PM on April 16, 2022 [3 favorites]
Here's his String Quartet number 8: to the victims of fascism and war.
posted by Pallas Athena at 5:37 PM on April 16, 2022 [3 favorites]
What is the most complex classical music that you know of?
Complex classic music in general? Or complex classical pieces that feel like Bach? Not sure if they're separate questions but you'll get some answers that respond to your second sentence and not your first because while Bach can be complex, he's not really what people will reach for when they think 'composer defined by complex music', since he's pretty accessible harmonically, structurally, and emotionally. Generally what musicians associate with complexity is the other end of those categories, mainly embodied by works in the art movements of the 20th century (21stC music takes a huge step back in complexity from 20thC music btw, so 20thC is where you want to look for the height of complexity). The book The Rest is Noise recommended above is a good read for some background on this era.
I love Bach, and so I'm looking for similar music
Villa-Lobos - Bachianas Brasileiras. A fusion of Baroque and Brazilian musical idioms.
Caroline Shaw, Partita for 8 Voices. Won the Pulitzer Prize in 2013.
As mentioned above, Piazzolla, who often used Baroque techniques in his music.
complex classical music (not like Bach though)
Messiaen - Turangalîla Symphonie
Alban Berg - Lyric Suite
György Ligeti - Piano Concerto
posted by womb of things to be and tomb of things that were at 5:44 PM on April 16, 2022 [3 favorites]
Complex classic music in general? Or complex classical pieces that feel like Bach? Not sure if they're separate questions but you'll get some answers that respond to your second sentence and not your first because while Bach can be complex, he's not really what people will reach for when they think 'composer defined by complex music', since he's pretty accessible harmonically, structurally, and emotionally. Generally what musicians associate with complexity is the other end of those categories, mainly embodied by works in the art movements of the 20th century (21stC music takes a huge step back in complexity from 20thC music btw, so 20thC is where you want to look for the height of complexity). The book The Rest is Noise recommended above is a good read for some background on this era.
I love Bach, and so I'm looking for similar music
Villa-Lobos - Bachianas Brasileiras. A fusion of Baroque and Brazilian musical idioms.
Caroline Shaw, Partita for 8 Voices. Won the Pulitzer Prize in 2013.
As mentioned above, Piazzolla, who often used Baroque techniques in his music.
complex classical music (not like Bach though)
Messiaen - Turangalîla Symphonie
Alban Berg - Lyric Suite
György Ligeti - Piano Concerto
posted by womb of things to be and tomb of things that were at 5:44 PM on April 16, 2022 [3 favorites]
I love the answer by womb of things to be and tomb of things that were , which has great recommendations and articulates some things I was trying to put into words about this question.
I’m going to suggest a few more things you might like that are, in my mind, somehow like Bach.
Eugène Ysaÿe’s several sonatas for solo violin.
Alan Hovhaness’s Prelude and Quadrupe Fugue, Op. 128.
Dmitri Shostakovich’s 24 Preludes and Fugues.
Conlon Nancarrow’s many studies for player piano.
Less like Bach, and yet you might like:
Charles Ives’s Piano Sonata No. 2 ‘Concord, Mass., 1840–60’.
Iannis Xenakis’s Pithoprakta
posted by musicinmybrain at 7:36 PM on April 16, 2022 [1 favorite]
I’m going to suggest a few more things you might like that are, in my mind, somehow like Bach.
Eugène Ysaÿe’s several sonatas for solo violin.
Alan Hovhaness’s Prelude and Quadrupe Fugue, Op. 128.
Dmitri Shostakovich’s 24 Preludes and Fugues.
Conlon Nancarrow’s many studies for player piano.
Less like Bach, and yet you might like:
Charles Ives’s Piano Sonata No. 2 ‘Concord, Mass., 1840–60’.
Iannis Xenakis’s Pithoprakta
posted by musicinmybrain at 7:36 PM on April 16, 2022 [1 favorite]
Nobody's mentioned Scriabin's piano pieces yet. Much of it is complex and difficult to play. Especially etude 42 no. 5 and Sonata 8.
posted by Flock of Cynthiabirds at 7:50 PM on April 16, 2022 [2 favorites]
posted by Flock of Cynthiabirds at 7:50 PM on April 16, 2022 [2 favorites]
Arturo Márquez is a living Mexican composer, I just discovered his Danzon series, number 2 is by far the most popular but all eight have rhythmic complexities that are just lovely.
posted by sammyo at 3:46 PM on April 17, 2022 [2 favorites]
posted by sammyo at 3:46 PM on April 17, 2022 [2 favorites]
Response by poster: Thank you all so much! Wow, you all are fully awesome. So much music great to listen to! Should definitely keep me busy for a while. I've already started on Beethoven's later string quartets, and yes, that is exactly what I'm looking for. Can't wait to dig into more of this!
posted by panama joe at 7:43 AM on April 20, 2022
posted by panama joe at 7:43 AM on April 20, 2022
Beethoven's Missa Solemnis is a total trip.
Totally different but also, Steve Reich (Music for 18 Musicians eg) and any of that Bang on a Can school stuff makes my brain go boom in a similar way, like someone is fluffing up my grey matter like it's a little cat.
posted by athirstforsalt at 8:36 AM on April 20, 2022
Totally different but also, Steve Reich (Music for 18 Musicians eg) and any of that Bang on a Can school stuff makes my brain go boom in a similar way, like someone is fluffing up my grey matter like it's a little cat.
posted by athirstforsalt at 8:36 AM on April 20, 2022
« Older Friend coming to my place for movie night. How to... | Recommendation for reading device for low vision Newer »
This thread is closed to new comments.
Bonus mind blowing fact: Lozakovich was 15 when he recorded this. He's the youngest person to ever be signed by Deutsche Grammophon. His version of Beethoven's Violin Concerto in D is also extraordinary. Actually, everything I've heard him play is wonderful, but do start with the Chaconne, which, as you likely know already, is considered one of the most complex and difficult pieces in the violin canon.
posted by easy, lucky, free at 11:48 AM on April 16, 2022 [3 favorites]