help me feel okay about buying a car and moving to a suburb
April 6, 2022 9:13 AM Subscribe
This will probably be the first in a series of related questions. This is a question about climate impacts and feelings related to getting a car and moving to a suburb as a city resident who hasn't owned a car in a decade. Both actual research and personal perspectives are welcome, especially from people who, like me, have been vocal about their dislike of car culture and whose motives for remaining in cities have been ecological since at least 2020.
I am a single queer trans person in my 30's (they or he pronouns). I work at a small company in a transit-accessible suburb W of a major US city X. I love my job and am almost completely unwilling to consider another role anytime in the next year. I drove a car in my early twenties that was bought by my family, before I transitioned, when I did not live in city X.
I currently live in the city X itself in a terrible shared apartment that I hate. My commute is either public transit or rideshares, which are respectively logistically and financially unsustainable. When I have to go to client sites other than our main office in W, which happens at least once a week, I am forced to rideshare every time, because there's no practical way to get there with transit. This also often means lugging a bunch of work equipment into and out of rideshares for those site visits, which is inconvenient.
My first plan, once I had worked at my current job for about six months and knew I wanted to stay here for the long haul, was to try to move to W or another transit-accessible suburb near W and keep ridesharing to other clients. However, the Greater X real estate market is extremely bad! I have been rejected in favor of more attractive tenants, repeatedly, over the past several months, and I have largely given up on this plan.
My boss, the founder of the company, just announced he and his family are moving from W to non-transit-accessible further-from-the-city suburb Y. There are a lot of places like Y that are a lot more affordable than the transit-accessible suburbs, but I would need to get a car to live in them. I think I want to do that, though, because my current living situation is so terrible, even though I don't know the non-transit-accessible real estate markets and neighborhoods outside Greater X very well.
My understanding is that ridesharing from X to W, ecologically speaking, is equivalent to driving somewhere between 1.5x and 2x the actual distance between X and W, because of the "backhaul" - the distance the rideshare driver has to go to get to their next ride. So between public transit unreliability and client site visits, I am already putting a lot of miles on random SUVs and minivans and whatever every week. Is this true? Am I way off-base here?
The driving distance from my office to my home is only about 20-45 minutes, depending on traffic, and there is free on-street parking in my city neighborhood. The public transit distance is between 90 and 120 minutes, usually, unless stuff goes wrong, as it so often has. I am really, really tired of leaving my house at 7am to hopefully maybe get to work at 9am. I am also very tired of the fact that mask compliance on transit is complete garbage and going to get worse as the summer tourist season kicks up.
I want to get a small used hybrid car in order to spend less time and money on rideshares and public transit, get around faster and less miserably, and ideally move somewhere less terrible for me personally.
I strongly support public transit, ideologically, and I was deeply emotionally invested in living in a city pre-covid. But this is horrendous and I feel like I can't do it anymore.
It is possibly relevant that I don't have supportive family and have a fairly minimal in-person social network - it is probably not ever going to be possible for me to get a co-signer on an apartment or a car loan, or for me to borrow a car from a friend. It's rideshares, rentals, or buying.
It's also the case that my online social network is quite strong and I think I might have more time and energy for video chats and/or possible in-person socializing if I weren't spending so many hours every week waiting for a bus or stuck on a delayed train or things of that sort. That said, even pre-COVID I very occasionally went to coffee shops and things - I don't care about nightlife, clubs, or bars. I don't participate in any sort of "scene." I also live in a very blue state, so I'm not that worried about being harassed at a suburban grocery store or anything.
Should I keep sacrificing time and energy and money forever at the altar of believing in public transit, even knowing that there are no signs it will ever get less horrible? Should I keep applying to transit-accessible apartments? Or is it really okay for me to start contacting used car salespeople?
I am a single queer trans person in my 30's (they or he pronouns). I work at a small company in a transit-accessible suburb W of a major US city X. I love my job and am almost completely unwilling to consider another role anytime in the next year. I drove a car in my early twenties that was bought by my family, before I transitioned, when I did not live in city X.
I currently live in the city X itself in a terrible shared apartment that I hate. My commute is either public transit or rideshares, which are respectively logistically and financially unsustainable. When I have to go to client sites other than our main office in W, which happens at least once a week, I am forced to rideshare every time, because there's no practical way to get there with transit. This also often means lugging a bunch of work equipment into and out of rideshares for those site visits, which is inconvenient.
My first plan, once I had worked at my current job for about six months and knew I wanted to stay here for the long haul, was to try to move to W or another transit-accessible suburb near W and keep ridesharing to other clients. However, the Greater X real estate market is extremely bad! I have been rejected in favor of more attractive tenants, repeatedly, over the past several months, and I have largely given up on this plan.
My boss, the founder of the company, just announced he and his family are moving from W to non-transit-accessible further-from-the-city suburb Y. There are a lot of places like Y that are a lot more affordable than the transit-accessible suburbs, but I would need to get a car to live in them. I think I want to do that, though, because my current living situation is so terrible, even though I don't know the non-transit-accessible real estate markets and neighborhoods outside Greater X very well.
My understanding is that ridesharing from X to W, ecologically speaking, is equivalent to driving somewhere between 1.5x and 2x the actual distance between X and W, because of the "backhaul" - the distance the rideshare driver has to go to get to their next ride. So between public transit unreliability and client site visits, I am already putting a lot of miles on random SUVs and minivans and whatever every week. Is this true? Am I way off-base here?
The driving distance from my office to my home is only about 20-45 minutes, depending on traffic, and there is free on-street parking in my city neighborhood. The public transit distance is between 90 and 120 minutes, usually, unless stuff goes wrong, as it so often has. I am really, really tired of leaving my house at 7am to hopefully maybe get to work at 9am. I am also very tired of the fact that mask compliance on transit is complete garbage and going to get worse as the summer tourist season kicks up.
I want to get a small used hybrid car in order to spend less time and money on rideshares and public transit, get around faster and less miserably, and ideally move somewhere less terrible for me personally.
I strongly support public transit, ideologically, and I was deeply emotionally invested in living in a city pre-covid. But this is horrendous and I feel like I can't do it anymore.
It is possibly relevant that I don't have supportive family and have a fairly minimal in-person social network - it is probably not ever going to be possible for me to get a co-signer on an apartment or a car loan, or for me to borrow a car from a friend. It's rideshares, rentals, or buying.
It's also the case that my online social network is quite strong and I think I might have more time and energy for video chats and/or possible in-person socializing if I weren't spending so many hours every week waiting for a bus or stuck on a delayed train or things of that sort. That said, even pre-COVID I very occasionally went to coffee shops and things - I don't care about nightlife, clubs, or bars. I don't participate in any sort of "scene." I also live in a very blue state, so I'm not that worried about being harassed at a suburban grocery store or anything.
Should I keep sacrificing time and energy and money forever at the altar of believing in public transit, even knowing that there are no signs it will ever get less horrible? Should I keep applying to transit-accessible apartments? Or is it really okay for me to start contacting used car salespeople?
Best answer: I live in the city and take the bus to work, in part because of similar ethical concerns as yours. And I'm looking for new jobs right now, and heavily favoring jobs that would allow me to continue to not have a car.
But, our individual choices aren't making or breaking anything, and getting a used car to greatly improve your life sounds like a good choice to me.
Advocate for climate action and public transit with a fraction of your new spare time.
posted by the primroses were over at 9:27 AM on April 6, 2022 [3 favorites]
But, our individual choices aren't making or breaking anything, and getting a used car to greatly improve your life sounds like a good choice to me.
Advocate for climate action and public transit with a fraction of your new spare time.
posted by the primroses were over at 9:27 AM on April 6, 2022 [3 favorites]
I'm curious about what type of work you do-- is there any chance you could advocate for remote meetings with your clients, or working remotely at your main job? Then if you need to move you could move near a grocery store and other essentials, and you should be able to avoid buying a car.
posted by pinochiette at 9:29 AM on April 6, 2022 [1 favorite]
posted by pinochiette at 9:29 AM on April 6, 2022 [1 favorite]
Is a fully electric vehicle a possibility for you? Getting off gas entirely is much better from an environmental standpoint than just reducing consumption as you do with a hybrid. Cars still have issues other than carbon emissions and air pollution from gas, but electric is a whole lot better than gas overall. There are used options available these days that aren't that expensive, if you don't need a huge range. It sounds like you might not be able to charge in your current living situation, but if you move, would this be a possibility? Is charging at work a possibility?
Unfortunately, idealogical commitment to public transit doesn't necessarily make public transit workable. Is looking at more expensive apartments that are within reasonable transit range of your job feasible? Presumably, there is some amount you could spend that would allow you to find a place to live. Is that amount plus a transit pass less than what you'd pay otherwise for rent plus a car?
posted by ssg at 9:46 AM on April 6, 2022 [3 favorites]
Unfortunately, idealogical commitment to public transit doesn't necessarily make public transit workable. Is looking at more expensive apartments that are within reasonable transit range of your job feasible? Presumably, there is some amount you could spend that would allow you to find a place to live. Is that amount plus a transit pass less than what you'd pay otherwise for rent plus a car?
posted by ssg at 9:46 AM on April 6, 2022 [3 favorites]
Best answer: I strongly support public transit, ideologically, and I was deeply emotionally invested in living in a city pre-covid.
You and I are as one--but. You are not morally responsible to individually overcome massive obstacles put in your way by an insane system, especially if your livelihood depends on it. You make a good faith effort. You make a real sacrifice. But, in the end, you are not a candidate for sainthood. There are limits to what you can do. Get a used EV. Look into ways you can compensate (can you organize a carpool at work? etc.). Continue to be politically active. Moving won't make you a hypocrite.
(I'm guessing you're in Boston. It's better than most cities in the U.S., in that sometimes you can contrive it so you can manage without a car in Boston. But it's highly dependent on job location, which is only somewhat in your control. If you want Internet rando validation.)
posted by praemunire at 9:55 AM on April 6, 2022 [8 favorites]
You and I are as one--but. You are not morally responsible to individually overcome massive obstacles put in your way by an insane system, especially if your livelihood depends on it. You make a good faith effort. You make a real sacrifice. But, in the end, you are not a candidate for sainthood. There are limits to what you can do. Get a used EV. Look into ways you can compensate (can you organize a carpool at work? etc.). Continue to be politically active. Moving won't make you a hypocrite.
(I'm guessing you're in Boston. It's better than most cities in the U.S., in that sometimes you can contrive it so you can manage without a car in Boston. But it's highly dependent on job location, which is only somewhat in your control. If you want Internet rando validation.)
posted by praemunire at 9:55 AM on April 6, 2022 [8 favorites]
How far are we talking actual distance wise? If you didn't want to get a car you may be able to get by with an electric bicycle or scooter if places aren't too far away.
posted by any portmanteau in a storm at 9:58 AM on April 6, 2022 [1 favorite]
posted by any portmanteau in a storm at 9:58 AM on April 6, 2022 [1 favorite]
Best answer: Just get a car--you're mobile, you're not reliant on anyone else to do things you want to do, and with the housing market the way it is you'll always have a private place to sleep.
posted by kingdead at 11:08 AM on April 6, 2022 [1 favorite]
posted by kingdead at 11:08 AM on April 6, 2022 [1 favorite]
Just a note: Moving to the suburbs is likely to change your commute time significantly even with a car. Spending over an hour each way in traffic may result in less benefit than you’re thinking.
posted by Tell Me No Lies at 11:45 AM on April 6, 2022 [3 favorites]
posted by Tell Me No Lies at 11:45 AM on April 6, 2022 [3 favorites]
Best answer: I feel like you’re torturing yourself. It’s crappy that we live in a society that doesn’t value public transit and any number of other beneficial systems. But it’s sad to see individuals take on this oversized amount of guilt and burden to try to live according to an almost impossible standard given the circumstances. Like, I know you want to live according to your values, but there are other ways to positively advocate for what you believe in without becoming so worn down by your living/commuting situation that your overall level of happiness takes a hit.
Move to the suburbs, buy a car. Channel that guilt and anxiety around this choice toward supporting the positive changes you want to see in your community.
posted by imalaowai at 5:46 PM on April 6, 2022 [7 favorites]
Move to the suburbs, buy a car. Channel that guilt and anxiety around this choice toward supporting the positive changes you want to see in your community.
posted by imalaowai at 5:46 PM on April 6, 2022 [7 favorites]
Response by poster: Thank you, everyone. I'm going to post the "ok so how do I buy car" question later today or this week. I'm providing more details about my specific situation in this answer, in case they are helpful to other readers.
I'm guessing you're in Boston. It's better than most cities in the U.S., in that sometimes you can contrive it so you can manage without a car in Boston. But it's highly dependent on job location, which is only somewhat in your control. If you want Internet rando validation.
Yeah, city X here is Boston, and I have gotten by without a car in Boston since fall 2011. But I don't think I can make it work any more, and I really was looking for Internet rando validation that this is because the situation is unworkable and not because I am catastophizing or overlooking the obvious.
Is looking at more expensive apartments that are within reasonable transit range of your job feasible? Presumably, there is some amount you could spend that would allow you to find a place to live. Is that amount plus a transit pass less than what you'd pay otherwise for rent plus a car?
Hahaha you would think this, but no. No, since November 2021 I have learned that the housing market around here is like a nightmare nightmare these days. I am thoroughly priced out of suburb W and the adjacent transit-accessible suburbs. There's an affordable housing program in suburb W that helps people rent subsidized apartments if their income last year was between a maximum $A and a minimum $B and I am WELL below $B.
I do not think it is possible for me to move closer to work without a car - my applications will continue to be rejected by landlords in favor of higher-earning/more-attractive prospective tenants.
I'm curious about what type of work you do-- is there any chance you could advocate for remote meetings with your clients, or working remotely at your main job? Then if you need to move you could move near a grocery store and other essentials, and you should be able to avoid buying a car.
I am in IT. We have many remote meetings. The client site visits aren't meetings. They are for things like "coordinate with electricians to install new networking equipment," "fix the teleconferencing device so people sound better on Zoom calls," or "deliver a bunch of laptops for new hires." It is not possible to do client site visits remotely, and I still don't want a different job.
Depending on your climate and risk tolerance, a very nice new ebike or electric scooter may be an option that could give similar benefits and also give you some good exercise/entertainment.
How far are we talking actual distance wise? If you didn't want to get a car you may be able to get by with an electric bicycle or scooter if places aren't too far away.
I have thought about this. Ebikes and electric scooters are extremely cool and I support them. I am a mediocre cyclist under the best of conditions. The distance from my current residence to my work is only about 12 miles and a competent cyclist could probably do it in about an hour.
Yesterday, I had a 16-mile rideshare in an SUV from our office to a client with several thousand dollars' worth of computers and stuff the client needed, and a 20-mile rideshare in a sedan from the client back to my home, both non-hybrid. Even if I were in good enough shape to physically pull that off on an ebike, which I am not, I don't have the time or risk tolerance to do it with six laptops or a rack-mount switch or something, which means I'd still be ridesharing after I got the ebike.
Is a fully electric vehicle a possibility for you? [...] It sounds like you might not be able to charge in your current living situation, but if you move, would this be a possibility? Is charging at work a possibility?
No, I don't think I can go fully electric right now. I don't have the ability to plug a car into my home or work's electrical power without doing something like running a power cable out a second-floor window and across a sidewalk. I don't expect to have easy access to a garage or charging station after I move, either.
Just a note: Moving to the suburbs is likely to change your commute time significantly even with a car. Spending over an hour each way in traffic may result in less benefit than you’re thinking.
Yes, I know, I am paying attention to peak-rush-hour driving times. The non-transit-accessible suburbs to the north and west of W are much, much more affordable than the transit-accessible suburbs and they have less hilariterrible Boston traffic.
Thank you, again, I really appreciate everybody's answers.
posted by All Might Be Well at 7:51 AM on April 7, 2022
I'm guessing you're in Boston. It's better than most cities in the U.S., in that sometimes you can contrive it so you can manage without a car in Boston. But it's highly dependent on job location, which is only somewhat in your control. If you want Internet rando validation.
Yeah, city X here is Boston, and I have gotten by without a car in Boston since fall 2011. But I don't think I can make it work any more, and I really was looking for Internet rando validation that this is because the situation is unworkable and not because I am catastophizing or overlooking the obvious.
Is looking at more expensive apartments that are within reasonable transit range of your job feasible? Presumably, there is some amount you could spend that would allow you to find a place to live. Is that amount plus a transit pass less than what you'd pay otherwise for rent plus a car?
Hahaha you would think this, but no. No, since November 2021 I have learned that the housing market around here is like a nightmare nightmare these days. I am thoroughly priced out of suburb W and the adjacent transit-accessible suburbs. There's an affordable housing program in suburb W that helps people rent subsidized apartments if their income last year was between a maximum $A and a minimum $B and I am WELL below $B.
I do not think it is possible for me to move closer to work without a car - my applications will continue to be rejected by landlords in favor of higher-earning/more-attractive prospective tenants.
I'm curious about what type of work you do-- is there any chance you could advocate for remote meetings with your clients, or working remotely at your main job? Then if you need to move you could move near a grocery store and other essentials, and you should be able to avoid buying a car.
I am in IT. We have many remote meetings. The client site visits aren't meetings. They are for things like "coordinate with electricians to install new networking equipment," "fix the teleconferencing device so people sound better on Zoom calls," or "deliver a bunch of laptops for new hires." It is not possible to do client site visits remotely, and I still don't want a different job.
Depending on your climate and risk tolerance, a very nice new ebike or electric scooter may be an option that could give similar benefits and also give you some good exercise/entertainment.
How far are we talking actual distance wise? If you didn't want to get a car you may be able to get by with an electric bicycle or scooter if places aren't too far away.
I have thought about this. Ebikes and electric scooters are extremely cool and I support them. I am a mediocre cyclist under the best of conditions. The distance from my current residence to my work is only about 12 miles and a competent cyclist could probably do it in about an hour.
Yesterday, I had a 16-mile rideshare in an SUV from our office to a client with several thousand dollars' worth of computers and stuff the client needed, and a 20-mile rideshare in a sedan from the client back to my home, both non-hybrid. Even if I were in good enough shape to physically pull that off on an ebike, which I am not, I don't have the time or risk tolerance to do it with six laptops or a rack-mount switch or something, which means I'd still be ridesharing after I got the ebike.
Is a fully electric vehicle a possibility for you? [...] It sounds like you might not be able to charge in your current living situation, but if you move, would this be a possibility? Is charging at work a possibility?
No, I don't think I can go fully electric right now. I don't have the ability to plug a car into my home or work's electrical power without doing something like running a power cable out a second-floor window and across a sidewalk. I don't expect to have easy access to a garage or charging station after I move, either.
Just a note: Moving to the suburbs is likely to change your commute time significantly even with a car. Spending over an hour each way in traffic may result in less benefit than you’re thinking.
Yes, I know, I am paying attention to peak-rush-hour driving times. The non-transit-accessible suburbs to the north and west of W are much, much more affordable than the transit-accessible suburbs and they have less hilariterrible Boston traffic.
Thank you, again, I really appreciate everybody's answers.
posted by All Might Be Well at 7:51 AM on April 7, 2022
Chiming in as a 10 year non car owner that decided to get a car because of some similar commute logistics, plus wanting to get up to the mountains without the stress of finding a rental car with AWD. A few reflections:
1) it’s possible to get a car and still be transit-focused and not car dependent. It may be that it makes sense to get a car for your commute, but that doesn’t mean you need to move to the suburbs and become car dependent for every errand.
2) once you have a car, it does become easier to just default to the car rather than the creativity you used to have to figure out transit, walking and car share possibilities. But every time I was stuck in traffic, getting upset because someone cut me off or circling around trying to find parking, I’d remember the benefits of transit and ride share. I find a 40 min transit ride more enjoyable than 20 minute car ride in traffic.
posted by purplevelvet at 5:28 PM on April 7, 2022
1) it’s possible to get a car and still be transit-focused and not car dependent. It may be that it makes sense to get a car for your commute, but that doesn’t mean you need to move to the suburbs and become car dependent for every errand.
2) once you have a car, it does become easier to just default to the car rather than the creativity you used to have to figure out transit, walking and car share possibilities. But every time I was stuck in traffic, getting upset because someone cut me off or circling around trying to find parking, I’d remember the benefits of transit and ride share. I find a 40 min transit ride more enjoyable than 20 minute car ride in traffic.
posted by purplevelvet at 5:28 PM on April 7, 2022
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Get a nice used hybrid, that will be a lot less climate impact and money than all the ride services you'll need otherwise. I can't advise as much on where to move, but having a car will give you a lot more options, time, and money. This will make you happier and better equipped to advocate for climate action and functional transit.
Depending on your climate and risk tolerance, a very nice new ebike or electric scooter may be an option that could give similar benefits and also give you some good exercise/entertainment.
posted by SaltySalticid at 9:24 AM on April 6, 2022 [11 favorites]