Please, believe me
September 27, 2021 9:49 PM Subscribe
My partner often doesn't believe things I say- usually trivial things, until now (CW ill/dying pet). Please help me verbalize/address this...
My (male) partner and I (female) have been together for 7 years (both in our early 40s). We have a good relationship and both feel very lucky to be together.
One strange thing I have noticed for a while is him often not believing things that I say. Up until now these have been pretty trivial things- such as:
(We are out shopping) Me: We need to get more soy sauce, we don't have any left at home.
Him: No, we have lots at home!
(I buy it anyway, we come home and we are indeed out of soy sauce)
Me: There's something wrong with the toilet valve, I'll call a plumber.
Him: No, it's fine, it always makes that noise, don't bother.
(I call the plumber anyway who ends up having to replace multiple parts)
This has been annoying but I just ignore it, up until this past week.
Last week I noticed our pet had been losing weight, was less active and was sleeping much more than usual. I told my boyfriend who said "Oh no, he's fine! Look, he's eating now, and he was running around a bit yesterday." I took our pet to the vet and it turns out that our pet has lost a considerable amount of weight and is quite thin. I got special food, supplements, etc. for him. The vet did mention that infection or cancer is a possibility (pet is eating normally and does not have any parasites which could cause weight loss). We are going to see if he gains weight in the next couple of weeks and follow up with the vet.
Our pet is getting old so this is not a shock to me. But I am still sad and concerned, and my boyfriend is still (strangely!) minimizing the entire situation. If I express my worry or sadness he tells me that our pet will be fine, he will gain weight with the new food, etc. It's like he doesn't see the change in our pet's behavior. Maybe he is trying to be comforting, but this definitely does not help.
It's a stressful time for me, and I don't want to add more stress by arguing with my boyfriend. I struggle a lot with verbalizing emotions and often end up making the situation worse. I would just like some advice, and am wondering what you would do in my situation.
Thank you!
My (male) partner and I (female) have been together for 7 years (both in our early 40s). We have a good relationship and both feel very lucky to be together.
One strange thing I have noticed for a while is him often not believing things that I say. Up until now these have been pretty trivial things- such as:
(We are out shopping) Me: We need to get more soy sauce, we don't have any left at home.
Him: No, we have lots at home!
(I buy it anyway, we come home and we are indeed out of soy sauce)
Me: There's something wrong with the toilet valve, I'll call a plumber.
Him: No, it's fine, it always makes that noise, don't bother.
(I call the plumber anyway who ends up having to replace multiple parts)
This has been annoying but I just ignore it, up until this past week.
Last week I noticed our pet had been losing weight, was less active and was sleeping much more than usual. I told my boyfriend who said "Oh no, he's fine! Look, he's eating now, and he was running around a bit yesterday." I took our pet to the vet and it turns out that our pet has lost a considerable amount of weight and is quite thin. I got special food, supplements, etc. for him. The vet did mention that infection or cancer is a possibility (pet is eating normally and does not have any parasites which could cause weight loss). We are going to see if he gains weight in the next couple of weeks and follow up with the vet.
Our pet is getting old so this is not a shock to me. But I am still sad and concerned, and my boyfriend is still (strangely!) minimizing the entire situation. If I express my worry or sadness he tells me that our pet will be fine, he will gain weight with the new food, etc. It's like he doesn't see the change in our pet's behavior. Maybe he is trying to be comforting, but this definitely does not help.
It's a stressful time for me, and I don't want to add more stress by arguing with my boyfriend. I struggle a lot with verbalizing emotions and often end up making the situation worse. I would just like some advice, and am wondering what you would do in my situation.
Thank you!
my boyfriend is still ... minimizing the entire situation
You chose the right word. Your boyfriend is minimising your concerns. He is saying: 'what you think is a sized thing is really a small or non-existent thing'.
When we hear such talk coming from a loved one we feel less heard and thus less loved. If whitewall is right and your boyfriend hopes the matter will go away if they minimise or ignore it then, despite whitewall's claims to the contrary, it is a form of disrespect. It disrespects your agency at identifying issues in your life. It is only an issue if they say it is one.
you: "I am concerned about X."
boyfriend: "No, X is not a problem."
you: ?? :-(
If you think your boyfriend would be distressed to realise that they are minimising and disrespecting your concerns, discuss it with them and then try ding training. Everytime they do the 'thing' say 'ding' and go on with your day doing things the way you want to.
posted by Thella at 10:23 PM on September 27, 2021 [39 favorites]
You chose the right word. Your boyfriend is minimising your concerns. He is saying: 'what you think is a sized thing is really a small or non-existent thing'.
When we hear such talk coming from a loved one we feel less heard and thus less loved. If whitewall is right and your boyfriend hopes the matter will go away if they minimise or ignore it then, despite whitewall's claims to the contrary, it is a form of disrespect. It disrespects your agency at identifying issues in your life. It is only an issue if they say it is one.
you: "I am concerned about X."
boyfriend: "No, X is not a problem."
you: ?? :-(
If you think your boyfriend would be distressed to realise that they are minimising and disrespecting your concerns, discuss it with them and then try ding training. Everytime they do the 'thing' say 'ding' and go on with your day doing things the way you want to.
posted by Thella at 10:23 PM on September 27, 2021 [39 favorites]
When you most need him to support you -- to empower you -- which is when you see a problem and act to remedy the problem, he is doing the opposite. This will only become a bigger issue as life continues and the problems you face become bigger. This is therapy ultimatum territory.
posted by amtho at 10:37 PM on September 27, 2021 [16 favorites]
posted by amtho at 10:37 PM on September 27, 2021 [16 favorites]
wow. That sounds... maddening.
Can you try, for a couple weeks, telling him every time he does it: "you need to stop contradicting me when I'm stating what I know to be true, it's really rude and disrespectful" and seeing if that gets him to stop?
If it didn't, I'd probably be outta there. Even his thing is "just" an unwillingness to deal with difficulty (rather than a blowing-off of you at every turn) that's not a workable foundation for a life together.
posted by fingersandtoes at 10:43 PM on September 27, 2021 [30 favorites]
Can you try, for a couple weeks, telling him every time he does it: "you need to stop contradicting me when I'm stating what I know to be true, it's really rude and disrespectful" and seeing if that gets him to stop?
If it didn't, I'd probably be outta there. Even his thing is "just" an unwillingness to deal with difficulty (rather than a blowing-off of you at every turn) that's not a workable foundation for a life together.
posted by fingersandtoes at 10:43 PM on September 27, 2021 [30 favorites]
It's hard to tell for sure from these examples, but it's possible that it's not so much that he doesn't believe you as that he doesn't want to believe you. (Still annoying and a problem either way, but a different problem).
All of these examples are situations where he's saying something isn't wrong when it is, which is what makes me think it might be a part of a larger cognitive strategy of wanting to avoid or minimise problems until they are too large to ignore.
If this is the case, when you have a calm moment you might broach the conversation as being about that. Key there to avoid defensiveness is to frame it as being about different cognitive strategies rather than you Being Right and him Being Wrong (even if you think he's often wrong to be this way).
Possible script: "I've noticed that you have a different threshold for when you consider something big enough to worry about than I do. It's understandable and I get it, but it also stresses me out a lot and makes me feel bad if I point something out and it feels to me like you dismiss my worries without engaging with them. Can we talk about how to productively discuss things in this sort of situation?"
posted by contrapositive at 10:49 PM on September 27, 2021 [11 favorites]
All of these examples are situations where he's saying something isn't wrong when it is, which is what makes me think it might be a part of a larger cognitive strategy of wanting to avoid or minimise problems until they are too large to ignore.
If this is the case, when you have a calm moment you might broach the conversation as being about that. Key there to avoid defensiveness is to frame it as being about different cognitive strategies rather than you Being Right and him Being Wrong (even if you think he's often wrong to be this way).
Possible script: "I've noticed that you have a different threshold for when you consider something big enough to worry about than I do. It's understandable and I get it, but it also stresses me out a lot and makes me feel bad if I point something out and it feels to me like you dismiss my worries without engaging with them. Can we talk about how to productively discuss things in this sort of situation?"
posted by contrapositive at 10:49 PM on September 27, 2021 [11 favorites]
It's possible this is a dysfunctional coping strategy, but my initial read of your examples was less generous. Is a lack of soy sauce a problem that requires coping? I have met men who seemingly have a deep-seated, reflexive need to contradict women -- even women they love and respect (maybe even especially those they love). A family member of mine does this to the point of absurdity. Does your partner do this to anyone else, of whatever gender?
I'm not sure what to advise you to do, other than to start by getting your partner to recognize his behavior and the effects on you.
posted by Comet Bug at 11:20 PM on September 27, 2021 [74 favorites]
I'm not sure what to advise you to do, other than to start by getting your partner to recognize his behavior and the effects on you.
posted by Comet Bug at 11:20 PM on September 27, 2021 [74 favorites]
Have you ever gone back later and asked about this? Do you end up discussing it or usually letting it go? I'm curious what happens if you raise the issue.
posted by bluedaisy at 11:36 PM on September 27, 2021 [4 favorites]
posted by bluedaisy at 11:36 PM on September 27, 2021 [4 favorites]
What's his personality like in general? Is he a "rational" type?
I ask because you could access this from a few angles, maybe simultaneously. One is that you feel disrespected by his behavior: you two are supposed to be collaborators on the project of Life and taking each other's insights seriously, and he's acting like the PI/senior manager who knows better than you, his report. Another angle is that his judgement needs calibration. He is often wrong, and you are often right, i.e., aligned with reality. If he cares about truth and rationality and so forth, he needs to acknowledge and examine that, and frankly be grateful that he lives with someone he can calibrate his perceptions to. (Seriously: I care very much about being calibrated to reality, so I try to keep track of where I tend to be right and where I tend to be wrong, because if my judgement isn't great I should at least be aware of it!)
Also, is he in general not good at noticing things that need to be done around the house? Is that because he also just does less around the house or doesn't see it as his responsibility? Are there areas in life in which he does take a more proactive or concerned approach?
posted by trig at 12:28 AM on September 28, 2021 [2 favorites]
I ask because you could access this from a few angles, maybe simultaneously. One is that you feel disrespected by his behavior: you two are supposed to be collaborators on the project of Life and taking each other's insights seriously, and he's acting like the PI/senior manager who knows better than you, his report. Another angle is that his judgement needs calibration. He is often wrong, and you are often right, i.e., aligned with reality. If he cares about truth and rationality and so forth, he needs to acknowledge and examine that, and frankly be grateful that he lives with someone he can calibrate his perceptions to. (Seriously: I care very much about being calibrated to reality, so I try to keep track of where I tend to be right and where I tend to be wrong, because if my judgement isn't great I should at least be aware of it!)
Also, is he in general not good at noticing things that need to be done around the house? Is that because he also just does less around the house or doesn't see it as his responsibility? Are there areas in life in which he does take a more proactive or concerned approach?
posted by trig at 12:28 AM on September 28, 2021 [2 favorites]
Oh god. My husband used to do this. I think he’s kind of stopped. I used to let him get away with it a lot but the truth was I was terrible about standing up for myself even when I knew I was right. I’d say to myself: we’ll, if he ends up being wrong about the soy sauce well he’ll just have to deal with the consequences.
But in the end I was always the one dealing with the consequences. He would have amnesia. He would forget he ever argued with me about it all.
So now I am like: thank you for you contribution, but please go to aisle 7 and grab 2 bottles of soy sauce please. Thank you.
posted by pairofshades at 1:21 AM on September 28, 2021 [45 favorites]
But in the end I was always the one dealing with the consequences. He would have amnesia. He would forget he ever argued with me about it all.
So now I am like: thank you for you contribution, but please go to aisle 7 and grab 2 bottles of soy sauce please. Thank you.
posted by pairofshades at 1:21 AM on September 28, 2021 [45 favorites]
I had your partner for years. It was really frustrating. Super frustrating because my natural instinct is gullibility in believing people straight away, sometimes giving them and their positions too much credence. It takes me a long time to realise the other person might be wrong/ ignorant/ racist/ sexist/ narcissistic/ using me/ etc and it’s easy for me to fall prey to doubting myself instead.
Like you have, I tabulated the kinds of responses my partner would make to my basic observations of the world for a month. And yep, they came back with a ‘no, that thing you observed in the world is not happening’ on every single thing. It was eerie.
It felt too hard to confront the reality of my partner thinking of me as inane but I found a time and asked him calmly if he noticed that every observation of the world I made, neutral and calm, he negated? And that I felt like he perceived me as inane, trivial, annoying when he did it. He said no he definitely didn’t, no way Jose. Not: hmm, that must be frustrating, I wonder why I do that? I didn’t bother to argue, just let his negation sit in the air as its own proof. The beginning of the end for that relationship.
The deep rooted belief system is that women saying things about things is a problem for this kind of man. Maybe it’s not a gender thing all the time, but it’s not not a gender thing for a lot of women.
The relationship is still mired in this undercurrent of disdain for me as a rational person. Like you, the latest round of negation and avoidance is related to the end of life care for our shared pets. He refuses to see that a 16 year old dog might need that sort of discussion, and that I (and the vet) are alarmist. Primarily I believe, to avoid doing the compassionate, emotional work of facing reality and doing adult work of seeing other people as seeing/feeling/ knowing human beings in their own right. That’s a pre-relationship situation, an archaic way of being in his approach to life.
You could preface a conversation about this with ‘this is difficult to bring up and its important to me that you really consider what I am saying before jumping in straight away with a response. Can I let you hear me and then come back to it in [x period of time]?
posted by honey-barbara at 1:55 AM on September 28, 2021 [41 favorites]
Like you have, I tabulated the kinds of responses my partner would make to my basic observations of the world for a month. And yep, they came back with a ‘no, that thing you observed in the world is not happening’ on every single thing. It was eerie.
It felt too hard to confront the reality of my partner thinking of me as inane but I found a time and asked him calmly if he noticed that every observation of the world I made, neutral and calm, he negated? And that I felt like he perceived me as inane, trivial, annoying when he did it. He said no he definitely didn’t, no way Jose. Not: hmm, that must be frustrating, I wonder why I do that? I didn’t bother to argue, just let his negation sit in the air as its own proof. The beginning of the end for that relationship.
The deep rooted belief system is that women saying things about things is a problem for this kind of man. Maybe it’s not a gender thing all the time, but it’s not not a gender thing for a lot of women.
The relationship is still mired in this undercurrent of disdain for me as a rational person. Like you, the latest round of negation and avoidance is related to the end of life care for our shared pets. He refuses to see that a 16 year old dog might need that sort of discussion, and that I (and the vet) are alarmist. Primarily I believe, to avoid doing the compassionate, emotional work of facing reality and doing adult work of seeing other people as seeing/feeling/ knowing human beings in their own right. That’s a pre-relationship situation, an archaic way of being in his approach to life.
You could preface a conversation about this with ‘this is difficult to bring up and its important to me that you really consider what I am saying before jumping in straight away with a response. Can I let you hear me and then come back to it in [x period of time]?
posted by honey-barbara at 1:55 AM on September 28, 2021 [41 favorites]
My mother doesn't want to believe me either, for the reasons whitewall said. She doesn't want to hear/believe/deal with it. Drives me nuts.
It sounds like the approach you are taking with that crap is working, though? Just do it yourself anyway.. I love the "thank you for your contribution, now go get the soy sauce" remark above, along the same lines.
posted by jenfullmoon at 5:46 AM on September 28, 2021
It sounds like the approach you are taking with that crap is working, though? Just do it yourself anyway.. I love the "thank you for your contribution, now go get the soy sauce" remark above, along the same lines.
posted by jenfullmoon at 5:46 AM on September 28, 2021
My (male, cis) partner does this all the time, it drives me nuts. He will literally go and look something up on Google because he doesn't believe me, only to find out I've been telling the truth. He has a diagnosed anxiety disorder and (we both believe) undiagnosed ADHD, so he has legitimate issues with focus and concentration, but often it's just because he's so used to being culturally/socially accepted as being Correct and The Boss in every situation, he finds it very difficult to be wrong, even potentially, and he sees anything that doesn't come directly from him as being Incorrect.
The best way I've found to tackle this is to be honest with him about how it makes me feel. Rather than getting annoyed in the moment, I try to say "I feel like you're not listening to me/respecting me", at which point he realises what he's doing and apologises. Sometimes I have to tell him to listen and to show him that I'm right, but some of it has just worn down over time as he's realised he can relax and let me be right sometimes.
posted by fight or flight at 6:27 AM on September 28, 2021 [15 favorites]
The best way I've found to tackle this is to be honest with him about how it makes me feel. Rather than getting annoyed in the moment, I try to say "I feel like you're not listening to me/respecting me", at which point he realises what he's doing and apologises. Sometimes I have to tell him to listen and to show him that I'm right, but some of it has just worn down over time as he's realised he can relax and let me be right sometimes.
posted by fight or flight at 6:27 AM on September 28, 2021 [15 favorites]
Those examples make me feel really uncomfortable. Why minimise your feelings when there’s no harm in any of them if you consult a professional or have two bottles of soy sauce in the cupboard.
Does your partner ever say “oh good point, we should look into that/buy another bottle” etc.? Acknowledging that you’re making a valid contribution? Or is it always dismissal?
With your pet, I can kind of see their side as I prefer to ignore bad reality but only after I’ve gotten my pet the required care. I mean it’s one thing to say ‘Fido will be fine! The vet gave him medicine and he’ll be right as rain soon” but not “Fido is fine!” as poor Fido is suffering without treatment.
I think you need to discuss this; in therapy with someone to direct the conversation might be best. It’s very disempowering to be told your concerns are invalid. I mean, are you not allowed to have opinions? Acknowledge facts? I think if working on this in therapy didn’t lead to a change it would be a deal breaker for me. You’re an intelligent, experienced person. You know things about your life and surroundings. You have a right to be heard and to be treated with respect for your contributions.
posted by kitten magic at 6:36 AM on September 28, 2021 [5 favorites]
Does your partner ever say “oh good point, we should look into that/buy another bottle” etc.? Acknowledging that you’re making a valid contribution? Or is it always dismissal?
With your pet, I can kind of see their side as I prefer to ignore bad reality but only after I’ve gotten my pet the required care. I mean it’s one thing to say ‘Fido will be fine! The vet gave him medicine and he’ll be right as rain soon” but not “Fido is fine!” as poor Fido is suffering without treatment.
I think you need to discuss this; in therapy with someone to direct the conversation might be best. It’s very disempowering to be told your concerns are invalid. I mean, are you not allowed to have opinions? Acknowledge facts? I think if working on this in therapy didn’t lead to a change it would be a deal breaker for me. You’re an intelligent, experienced person. You know things about your life and surroundings. You have a right to be heard and to be treated with respect for your contributions.
posted by kitten magic at 6:36 AM on September 28, 2021 [5 favorites]
Yup, my family does this to me as well sometimes. (Less lately.) It has to do in part with how they perceive(d) me--I was a depressed, angry kid and got tagged as "the negative one." For another part, a couple of my relatives in particular just do not want to hear/deal with anything like "problems" (they would call this "optimism") and would just plain rather
-be out of soy sauce
-show up at a closed restaurant
-get stuck in avoidable traffic
-be surprised by an overdraft/sick pet/house repair
than do whatever it is the brain has to do to anticipate and work around an even mildly inconvenient reality. Yes, going back to another aisle for soy sauce would fall into that category.
Somehow in your partner's mind you have gotten unfairly slotted into a category of "overreactor" or something similar, and one of two things is happening:
-He simply doesn't want to or think it's important to deal with the stuff you do
-He gets out of the stress or discomfort by telling himself it's Not A Thing, meanwhile knowing on some level that you'll take care of it.
I wish I had a magic trick that would make him (and my relatives) not be this way because it's infuriating, but so far the only thing that's worked with my relatives is to NOT DISCUSS with them, and simply do whatever needs to be done. It's a lot of work though, and I don't love it.
posted by We put our faith in Blast Hardcheese at 6:39 AM on September 28, 2021 [21 favorites]
-be out of soy sauce
-show up at a closed restaurant
-get stuck in avoidable traffic
-be surprised by an overdraft/sick pet/house repair
than do whatever it is the brain has to do to anticipate and work around an even mildly inconvenient reality. Yes, going back to another aisle for soy sauce would fall into that category.
Somehow in your partner's mind you have gotten unfairly slotted into a category of "overreactor" or something similar, and one of two things is happening:
-He simply doesn't want to or think it's important to deal with the stuff you do
-He gets out of the stress or discomfort by telling himself it's Not A Thing, meanwhile knowing on some level that you'll take care of it.
I wish I had a magic trick that would make him (and my relatives) not be this way because it's infuriating, but so far the only thing that's worked with my relatives is to NOT DISCUSS with them, and simply do whatever needs to be done. It's a lot of work though, and I don't love it.
posted by We put our faith in Blast Hardcheese at 6:39 AM on September 28, 2021 [21 favorites]
Just to say this plainly: this shit may not be unusual but it is not ok. At all.
What if you are sick and need care? What if you need him to back you up on anything? I wouldn't trust someone who constantly dismissed me to have my back in a crisis.
And if you can't trust the other person the relationship is doomed. At least as anything but casual.
Call him on this now, and if he refuses to believe you (again!), start your plan to leave. If he's willing to work on it, then get a therapist so it's not your job to fix him.
posted by emjaybee at 6:45 AM on September 28, 2021 [24 favorites]
What if you are sick and need care? What if you need him to back you up on anything? I wouldn't trust someone who constantly dismissed me to have my back in a crisis.
And if you can't trust the other person the relationship is doomed. At least as anything but casual.
Call him on this now, and if he refuses to believe you (again!), start your plan to leave. If he's willing to work on it, then get a therapist so it's not your job to fix him.
posted by emjaybee at 6:45 AM on September 28, 2021 [24 favorites]
Just to circle back a bit with another possible take on specifically the pet situation: have you spoken to him about his feelings about your pet getting old and facing mortality? Perhaps he's scared and sad about it as well and this is his way of trying to cope with the loss of his pet (assuming you've raised and cared for the pet together).
Does he have a space where he can talk about his feelings? AMAB people are taught, from an early age, to ignore emotional pain and try to find a solution. This could be what he's doing, if he's afraid of there being a situation without a solution (i.e. terminal cancer).
I agree that he needs to deal with this either way, but you could try to approach it from this angle as well rather than assuming immediately that he's doing it to be a dick. You know your partner better than any of us, so ymmv, but I would at least say to him, "hey, it's okay if you're scared of [pet] dying, I am too, let's talk about that".
posted by fight or flight at 6:52 AM on September 28, 2021 [3 favorites]
Does he have a space where he can talk about his feelings? AMAB people are taught, from an early age, to ignore emotional pain and try to find a solution. This could be what he's doing, if he's afraid of there being a situation without a solution (i.e. terminal cancer).
I agree that he needs to deal with this either way, but you could try to approach it from this angle as well rather than assuming immediately that he's doing it to be a dick. You know your partner better than any of us, so ymmv, but I would at least say to him, "hey, it's okay if you're scared of [pet] dying, I am too, let's talk about that".
posted by fight or flight at 6:52 AM on September 28, 2021 [3 favorites]
Well, I'm going to go against the grain here and say I don't really see these things as a concern in the context of a good relationship. The way I read your examples, your boyfriend is either a) wrong (with the soy sauce) or b) not wanting to deal with potential problems and therefore trying to convince himself (and also you, but mostly himself) that said problems do not exist. This is about the way his brain deals with problems, not about whether or not he believes you.
I also think you might be frustrated with him about not seeing your pet's health as an issue and going back to ruminate on other things that might not have been a very serious problem at the time? Like the soy sauce. Clearly he thought you had soy sauce but you didn't and he was wrong. That isn't a value judgement about whether your opinions are or are not valid. It was just that he had wrong information and believed it to be right. This happens all the time in a relationship. At least, it does in mine.
And I get the frustration about the pet health. I am also the one in my household who generally pays more attention to that stuff and my husband is always kind of fascinated that I noticed and identified what did indeed turn out to be a problem. But honestly, at this point I think your boyfriend is trying to make you feel better by telling you that the pet will be okay. Whether or not he's right is another issue, but it might help you to think about this incident in isolation rather than part of a larger pattern, and also consider his motivation. He cares about you a lot, enough to spend his life with you. It's by far most likely that his actions right now are motivated by trying to assuage your worries.
That doesn't mean you can't be annoyed with his approach. I had cancer six years ago and my husband believed my doctors when they said I would likely be fine, and it made me furious. When we are stressed and upset, sometimes what we need is for people to agree with us, not to try to be reasoned out of our emotions. So I think you're within your rights to tell your boyfriend that he doesn't know what's going to happen with your pet any more than you do right now, and it would help you if he would acknowledge the stress of the situation and let you feel your feelings. But honestly, nothing you've said in this post gives me concern for the long haul and I'm kind of surprised at all the extreme reactions. This is a difference in the way you deal with stress, and improving the way you communicate about it, while also trying not to assign negative motivations where it's likely none exist, will help a lot.
posted by something something at 7:31 AM on September 28, 2021 [6 favorites]
I also think you might be frustrated with him about not seeing your pet's health as an issue and going back to ruminate on other things that might not have been a very serious problem at the time? Like the soy sauce. Clearly he thought you had soy sauce but you didn't and he was wrong. That isn't a value judgement about whether your opinions are or are not valid. It was just that he had wrong information and believed it to be right. This happens all the time in a relationship. At least, it does in mine.
And I get the frustration about the pet health. I am also the one in my household who generally pays more attention to that stuff and my husband is always kind of fascinated that I noticed and identified what did indeed turn out to be a problem. But honestly, at this point I think your boyfriend is trying to make you feel better by telling you that the pet will be okay. Whether or not he's right is another issue, but it might help you to think about this incident in isolation rather than part of a larger pattern, and also consider his motivation. He cares about you a lot, enough to spend his life with you. It's by far most likely that his actions right now are motivated by trying to assuage your worries.
That doesn't mean you can't be annoyed with his approach. I had cancer six years ago and my husband believed my doctors when they said I would likely be fine, and it made me furious. When we are stressed and upset, sometimes what we need is for people to agree with us, not to try to be reasoned out of our emotions. So I think you're within your rights to tell your boyfriend that he doesn't know what's going to happen with your pet any more than you do right now, and it would help you if he would acknowledge the stress of the situation and let you feel your feelings. But honestly, nothing you've said in this post gives me concern for the long haul and I'm kind of surprised at all the extreme reactions. This is a difference in the way you deal with stress, and improving the way you communicate about it, while also trying not to assign negative motivations where it's likely none exist, will help a lot.
posted by something something at 7:31 AM on September 28, 2021 [6 favorites]
I've seen this sort of low-level gaslighting from a number of people, especially in the context of cis men doing this to cis women who are romantic partners. When I've encountered it, it's part of a larger pattern where a man is essentially insisting that nothing is a problem unless he thinks it's a problem - and if he thinks it's a problem, then it's an emergency that she needs to address right now. It's a way to retain control of the situation in the sense that he's appointed himself as arbitrator of what is important, and you're constantly in the position of petitioning to be taken seriously, to be treated as an equal rather than having that be the default.
What's it like when the shoe is on the other foot? If he raises something he thinks is an issue and wants it dealt with, what does he do if you tell him it's not a problem and just go on with your day?
What happens when he's wrong and it turns into something obvious? Does he ever apologize? Does he ever acknowledge it? Or does he pretend that nothing happened, or that the events were so unlikely that he was actually right but then something weird went on?
Does he have to be right and/or in control at all times?
I think a lot of people have made good suggestions above, so I will add only this: figure out for yourself what needs to change, and when it needs to change by, for you to stay in this relationship. Don't tell him, and do not move the goal posts once you have done this, but keep track of it for yourself because this is no way to spend your life.
posted by bile and syntax at 7:45 AM on September 28, 2021 [24 favorites]
What's it like when the shoe is on the other foot? If he raises something he thinks is an issue and wants it dealt with, what does he do if you tell him it's not a problem and just go on with your day?
What happens when he's wrong and it turns into something obvious? Does he ever apologize? Does he ever acknowledge it? Or does he pretend that nothing happened, or that the events were so unlikely that he was actually right but then something weird went on?
Does he have to be right and/or in control at all times?
I think a lot of people have made good suggestions above, so I will add only this: figure out for yourself what needs to change, and when it needs to change by, for you to stay in this relationship. Don't tell him, and do not move the goal posts once you have done this, but keep track of it for yourself because this is no way to spend your life.
posted by bile and syntax at 7:45 AM on September 28, 2021 [24 favorites]
My question is: does he ever acknowledge he was wrong about the soy sauce supply?
It sounds trivial, but I'd feel more optimistic about the situation if he sometimes said, "oh, look, you were right, we're out of soy sauce" when you got home. That would indicate that he's just careless with details rather than correcting you just to control you in a low-key way, which is an unpleasant habit that doesn't bode well for the future of the relationship. His statements about your pet could be his way of keeping up his morale--after all, in that case you're talking about the future and neither of you actually know what will happen. But in your other examples, it sounds like he may be reflexively denying your observation just because he didn't happen to make the same one (not even a contrary one! just not one at all!), which is not a good way to deal with anyone above about the age of ten.
posted by praemunire at 8:09 AM on September 28, 2021 [20 favorites]
It sounds trivial, but I'd feel more optimistic about the situation if he sometimes said, "oh, look, you were right, we're out of soy sauce" when you got home. That would indicate that he's just careless with details rather than correcting you just to control you in a low-key way, which is an unpleasant habit that doesn't bode well for the future of the relationship. His statements about your pet could be his way of keeping up his morale--after all, in that case you're talking about the future and neither of you actually know what will happen. But in your other examples, it sounds like he may be reflexively denying your observation just because he didn't happen to make the same one (not even a contrary one! just not one at all!), which is not a good way to deal with anyone above about the age of ten.
posted by praemunire at 8:09 AM on September 28, 2021 [20 favorites]
This can be considered invalidation or gaslighting. I had this with my ex. He didn't believe me on serious or mundane experiences, or if I was passing on a message from someone else.
It turned out to be at least three separate issues:
1. Black and white thinking or a logic filter.
If he himself had not seen and experienced it, then it did not occur. 'The Dress' or 'Laurel / Yanny' always ended up with him stating whatever answer and saying everyone had made everything else up.
2. Trying to get out of dealing with a problem (as stated by others) in order to pass it on to me.
3. A very strong defense mechanism to stop him from being hurt or falling for something.
I once approached him about an unusual news story in the UK. I had five windows open on my tablet of examples and videos so he would believe me and it turns out he'd already heard about it.
Ultimately this is one of the reasons it didn't work out for us, because I couldn't get him to take me seriously on anything, but your story may differ.
posted by Ms. Moonlight at 8:24 AM on September 28, 2021 [6 favorites]
It turned out to be at least three separate issues:
1. Black and white thinking or a logic filter.
If he himself had not seen and experienced it, then it did not occur. 'The Dress' or 'Laurel / Yanny' always ended up with him stating whatever answer and saying everyone had made everything else up.
2. Trying to get out of dealing with a problem (as stated by others) in order to pass it on to me.
3. A very strong defense mechanism to stop him from being hurt or falling for something.
I once approached him about an unusual news story in the UK. I had five windows open on my tablet of examples and videos so he would believe me and it turns out he'd already heard about it.
Ultimately this is one of the reasons it didn't work out for us, because I couldn't get him to take me seriously on anything, but your story may differ.
posted by Ms. Moonlight at 8:24 AM on September 28, 2021 [6 favorites]
>>>Just to say this plainly: this shit may not be unusual but it is not ok. At all.
>>>What if you are sick and need care? What if you need him to back you up on anything? I wouldn't trust someone who constantly dismissed me to have my back in a crisis.
Quoted for motherfucking TRUTH.
Reading your post made me so uncomfortable. The first thing that came to mind was, "What if you're having a heart attack and he tells you it's probably just gas, no need to call 911."
I'm not saying he's evil, I'm sure he has the best of intentions, I'm sure he is very sincere when he says he loves you and respects you. None of that erases the fact that he is demonstrating
(a) dangerous levels of disrespect towards you
and
(b) an alarming lack of self-awareness about his actions and attitudes towards you.
That's bullshit. His behavior is showing you that you cannot trust him.
The good news is that *you have power here*. You are not helplessly at his mercy. You do not need to convince him that your pet is sick. You don't need his permission to buy soy sauce. You are fully capable of believing in yourself and in your own perceptions without needing his validation. And you already know this, you are already acting on it.
But there's still a part of you that hankers after his agreement, his validation, his *respect* for you. You keep trying to explain reality to him, finding all kinds of evidence, trying out different arguments and tactics. You keep working and working and working and working and working, all this effort, just to get him to SEE what's right in front of him, just to get him to ACKNOWLEDGE reality.
What if you didn't?
What if you gave up?
At this moment, he finds it impossible to recognize reality within your earshot. It doesn't matter why... Maybe he can't admit he was wrong and you were right, or maybe he's got mad cow disease and prions are eating his brain, or whatever. That is his own business and his own problem, though. If he has issues with admitting that your pet is sick, that's HIS issue to solve and not yours. If he can't express emotions appropriate to the situation, that's HIS issue to solve and not yours. If he can't keep track of the soy sauce stock levels at home, that's HIS issue to solve and not yours.
And if he can't bring himself to treat his partner with respect, courtesy, and kindness, that's HIS issue to solve and not yours. You have dragged the horse to the water, OP. That's all you can do. Put away that dissertation you're writing on the benefits of drinking water. The horse ain't reading it!
Here's a useful framework for you to follow: Don't "JADE" - don't justify, argue, defend, or explain. When he contradicts reality, shrug, roll your eyes, and move on to dealing with reality the way you need to, as if he hadn't even spoken. Stop engaging in this pointless power struggle that he keeps setting up for you. Let him play this game all by himself if he wants to.
Best case scenario, your partner is just going through a temporary phase and he will grow out of it quickly, on his own, and apologize to you for the way he has treated you. Most likely scenario, you're going to have to set up couple's counseling appointments for both of you and hope he shows up (both literally and metaphorically) - his sudden dismissiveness towards you is, as I said up front, potentially dangerous, so please do take this seriously and get professional help (despite his inevitable whining that you're overreacting blah blah blah).
Worst case scenario, he digs his heels in and refuses to participate in any attempt to address his disrespect towards you. If that happens, I urge you to stay in your own skin. Remember not to JADE. Remember to observe him and respond to him from inside yourself. Resist the urge to make his excuses for him, get inside his skin, guess what's going on in his head, sense what his feelings are, etc. Respect the boundary between you and him. Allow him to speak for himself without the assistance of your creative interpretations. Treat him with respect enough to believe him at his word, rather than using your own empathy to imagine benign hidden motivations as the excuse for what he said. We often forget that this is an essential component of respecting our partners, too: to be willing to take them at their word even when they're telling us things we don't want to hear.
posted by MiraK at 8:39 AM on September 28, 2021 [25 favorites]
>>>What if you are sick and need care? What if you need him to back you up on anything? I wouldn't trust someone who constantly dismissed me to have my back in a crisis.
Quoted for motherfucking TRUTH.
Reading your post made me so uncomfortable. The first thing that came to mind was, "What if you're having a heart attack and he tells you it's probably just gas, no need to call 911."
I'm not saying he's evil, I'm sure he has the best of intentions, I'm sure he is very sincere when he says he loves you and respects you. None of that erases the fact that he is demonstrating
(a) dangerous levels of disrespect towards you
and
(b) an alarming lack of self-awareness about his actions and attitudes towards you.
That's bullshit. His behavior is showing you that you cannot trust him.
The good news is that *you have power here*. You are not helplessly at his mercy. You do not need to convince him that your pet is sick. You don't need his permission to buy soy sauce. You are fully capable of believing in yourself and in your own perceptions without needing his validation. And you already know this, you are already acting on it.
But there's still a part of you that hankers after his agreement, his validation, his *respect* for you. You keep trying to explain reality to him, finding all kinds of evidence, trying out different arguments and tactics. You keep working and working and working and working and working, all this effort, just to get him to SEE what's right in front of him, just to get him to ACKNOWLEDGE reality.
What if you didn't?
What if you gave up?
At this moment, he finds it impossible to recognize reality within your earshot. It doesn't matter why... Maybe he can't admit he was wrong and you were right, or maybe he's got mad cow disease and prions are eating his brain, or whatever. That is his own business and his own problem, though. If he has issues with admitting that your pet is sick, that's HIS issue to solve and not yours. If he can't express emotions appropriate to the situation, that's HIS issue to solve and not yours. If he can't keep track of the soy sauce stock levels at home, that's HIS issue to solve and not yours.
And if he can't bring himself to treat his partner with respect, courtesy, and kindness, that's HIS issue to solve and not yours. You have dragged the horse to the water, OP. That's all you can do. Put away that dissertation you're writing on the benefits of drinking water. The horse ain't reading it!
Here's a useful framework for you to follow: Don't "JADE" - don't justify, argue, defend, or explain. When he contradicts reality, shrug, roll your eyes, and move on to dealing with reality the way you need to, as if he hadn't even spoken. Stop engaging in this pointless power struggle that he keeps setting up for you. Let him play this game all by himself if he wants to.
Best case scenario, your partner is just going through a temporary phase and he will grow out of it quickly, on his own, and apologize to you for the way he has treated you. Most likely scenario, you're going to have to set up couple's counseling appointments for both of you and hope he shows up (both literally and metaphorically) - his sudden dismissiveness towards you is, as I said up front, potentially dangerous, so please do take this seriously and get professional help (despite his inevitable whining that you're overreacting blah blah blah).
Worst case scenario, he digs his heels in and refuses to participate in any attempt to address his disrespect towards you. If that happens, I urge you to stay in your own skin. Remember not to JADE. Remember to observe him and respond to him from inside yourself. Resist the urge to make his excuses for him, get inside his skin, guess what's going on in his head, sense what his feelings are, etc. Respect the boundary between you and him. Allow him to speak for himself without the assistance of your creative interpretations. Treat him with respect enough to believe him at his word, rather than using your own empathy to imagine benign hidden motivations as the excuse for what he said. We often forget that this is an essential component of respecting our partners, too: to be willing to take them at their word even when they're telling us things we don't want to hear.
posted by MiraK at 8:39 AM on September 28, 2021 [25 favorites]
This seems like a variation on mansplaining, and it would drive me crazy. If you have a good relationship and he's a reasonable person, you should be able to talk about it. Just wait until you're not actively upset. If it's hard for you to express verbally and it wouldn't be awkward to give him a letter, maybe you could write it down. I don't know how difficult it would be for someone to change this habit, though an ex of mine did eventually switch from giving advice to commiseration when I wanted to complain about work, etc., after I explained how it made me feel.
posted by pinochiette at 8:42 AM on September 28, 2021 [2 favorites]
posted by pinochiette at 8:42 AM on September 28, 2021 [2 favorites]
I just thought of something... OP, what if you showed him this post?
No, seriously.
You haven't said anything inflammatory about him here, nothing crazy, nothing that damns him as evil. If he is as reasonable and wonderful a partner as you say, I'm thinking he needs to read this post and this thread. It could be a great way to start this conversation between you both.
If you feel you cannot show him this post, IMO that's telling you something significant - specifically, your relationship is likely not as healthy as you are saying it is. That's useful information for you to have and mull over.
posted by MiraK at 8:47 AM on September 28, 2021 [5 favorites]
No, seriously.
You haven't said anything inflammatory about him here, nothing crazy, nothing that damns him as evil. If he is as reasonable and wonderful a partner as you say, I'm thinking he needs to read this post and this thread. It could be a great way to start this conversation between you both.
If you feel you cannot show him this post, IMO that's telling you something significant - specifically, your relationship is likely not as healthy as you are saying it is. That's useful information for you to have and mull over.
posted by MiraK at 8:47 AM on September 28, 2021 [5 favorites]
I think you might want to show him this post as well if he's open to it.
So he could be just dismissive/rude/a jerk.. I dunno. I have a possible other explanation from my life.
He may be depressed. I can barely hold on when I'm depressed and any slight disturbance to what I think will happen feels like it might destabilize my entire life. I try to just knee jerk reject things in the moment at that point. It can be something as simple as my not planning to buy soy sauce, yes, because having a plan in my mind is the only way I can keep functioning.
That was when I was really depressed but outwardly presenting at mostly normal. It's also kind of a function of my ADHD/highly sensitive where I get overstimulated and want to shut down. I know it's a dysfunctional coping thing I do and actively work to avoid it. However, my partner is fully aware of it (it still happens sometimes!) and she can tell and will help. We debrief after because we have great communication and a healthy relationship is our top priority. Nothing major happens, she will just say like if it were the grocery store (a place I DO get overstimulated haha) "I could tell you were getting overstimulated, how do you feel now?" and I go "Yes, I just needed to get out of there, but you were right, I'm glad we got the soy sauce and thank you for helping." etc.
posted by OnTheLastCastle at 8:55 AM on September 28, 2021 [2 favorites]
So he could be just dismissive/rude/a jerk.. I dunno. I have a possible other explanation from my life.
He may be depressed. I can barely hold on when I'm depressed and any slight disturbance to what I think will happen feels like it might destabilize my entire life. I try to just knee jerk reject things in the moment at that point. It can be something as simple as my not planning to buy soy sauce, yes, because having a plan in my mind is the only way I can keep functioning.
That was when I was really depressed but outwardly presenting at mostly normal. It's also kind of a function of my ADHD/highly sensitive where I get overstimulated and want to shut down. I know it's a dysfunctional coping thing I do and actively work to avoid it. However, my partner is fully aware of it (it still happens sometimes!) and she can tell and will help. We debrief after because we have great communication and a healthy relationship is our top priority. Nothing major happens, she will just say like if it were the grocery store (a place I DO get overstimulated haha) "I could tell you were getting overstimulated, how do you feel now?" and I go "Yes, I just needed to get out of there, but you were right, I'm glad we got the soy sauce and thank you for helping." etc.
posted by OnTheLastCastle at 8:55 AM on September 28, 2021 [2 favorites]
My partner (cishet male) and I (cishet female) do this to each other a lot and we both try to work on it.
For me, when I am doing it to him it's usually because of the two of us he's the spacey ADHD affable stoner one and I am the rigid anxious get things done pessimist one. I think the two of us are at opposite ends of the spectrum. So he really is "looking on the bright side" a lot and I'm the one who is like "No you misunderstood that, this is IMPORTANT" or something similar. And he's maybe got a little of the rejection sensitive dysphoria and so HAAAATES when I tell him he's wrong about things (whether I am correct or incorrect). So for my part I work on this by turning statements "No, that is not how that works" into questions "I think that might work a different way, could you check?"
For him when he is contradicting me, I think it's a combination of being a bit mansplainy, sometimes shooting from the hip about what he's saying, and not really doing a reality check that being "guy who is always contradicting a woman" is a bad look. Also my dad used to do this so I HAAAAATTTEE it. So for me, when he does something like this, because we've talked about it, I'll just do my version of ding training which is "Hey sweetheart, you're being That Guy again" which is basically our polite way of saying "Hey knock it off" I think often he is trying to be optimistic "Oh, this difficult thing you are dealing with, it will be over soon!" and I'm more like "No, that isn't correct stop saying that" and that extends to this kind of contradictory behavior sometimes.
So like many people's advice above I think part of working on this depends on if you think it's pathological and if you think it's a thing you can discuss and maybe work on. Because it sounds annoying but not necessarily relationship-ending, and it might be worth poking into it a little more, like are you just upset because your pet is sick and you feel invalidated at a difficult time (understandable!) or is it more that your relationship is really bumming you out and that is the major issue? It's okay to not like this! But you may need to get into a feelings discussion "Hey I feel invalidated when you do that, could you try to not do that as much?" For me with my partner I'd often point to my father (or my sister's lousy ex-boyfriend) and be like "Don't be like these people, even if you didn't mean anything by it" and that helped frame it for him in a way where he could work on it.
posted by jessamyn at 9:05 AM on September 28, 2021 [3 favorites]
For me, when I am doing it to him it's usually because of the two of us he's the spacey ADHD affable stoner one and I am the rigid anxious get things done pessimist one. I think the two of us are at opposite ends of the spectrum. So he really is "looking on the bright side" a lot and I'm the one who is like "No you misunderstood that, this is IMPORTANT" or something similar. And he's maybe got a little of the rejection sensitive dysphoria and so HAAAATES when I tell him he's wrong about things (whether I am correct or incorrect). So for my part I work on this by turning statements "No, that is not how that works" into questions "I think that might work a different way, could you check?"
For him when he is contradicting me, I think it's a combination of being a bit mansplainy, sometimes shooting from the hip about what he's saying, and not really doing a reality check that being "guy who is always contradicting a woman" is a bad look. Also my dad used to do this so I HAAAAATTTEE it. So for me, when he does something like this, because we've talked about it, I'll just do my version of ding training which is "Hey sweetheart, you're being That Guy again" which is basically our polite way of saying "Hey knock it off" I think often he is trying to be optimistic "Oh, this difficult thing you are dealing with, it will be over soon!" and I'm more like "No, that isn't correct stop saying that" and that extends to this kind of contradictory behavior sometimes.
So like many people's advice above I think part of working on this depends on if you think it's pathological and if you think it's a thing you can discuss and maybe work on. Because it sounds annoying but not necessarily relationship-ending, and it might be worth poking into it a little more, like are you just upset because your pet is sick and you feel invalidated at a difficult time (understandable!) or is it more that your relationship is really bumming you out and that is the major issue? It's okay to not like this! But you may need to get into a feelings discussion "Hey I feel invalidated when you do that, could you try to not do that as much?" For me with my partner I'd often point to my father (or my sister's lousy ex-boyfriend) and be like "Don't be like these people, even if you didn't mean anything by it" and that helped frame it for him in a way where he could work on it.
posted by jessamyn at 9:05 AM on September 28, 2021 [3 favorites]
You say that you have been just ignoring it up until now. So, talk to him and tell him it has to stop. Either it stops and you know it was just some weird quirk that he wasn’t aware of OR he doesn’t stop and you know he is purposefully undermining your confidence and sense of surety about your perceptions and the world.
Yes, it could take time for it to stop. But also, be honest with yourself about whether he is taking concrete steps towards doing better or just trying to placate you.
posted by Bottlecap at 10:33 AM on September 28, 2021
Yes, it could take time for it to stop. But also, be honest with yourself about whether he is taking concrete steps towards doing better or just trying to placate you.
posted by Bottlecap at 10:33 AM on September 28, 2021
I guarangoddamntee that your partner is not an "optimist" when it comes to his boss.
"Our sales figures are down 14% this quarter."
NO BOSS THEY AREN'T
"The project deadline is in two weeks."
NO BOSS IT ISN'T
I had a "partner" like this. When I proved him wrong "yep, NASA says the moon IS full tonight," he literally screamed at me for "being a fucking lawyer." Even when he was wrong, it was MY FAULT that he was wrong.
RUN.
posted by cyndigo at 1:38 PM on September 28, 2021 [18 favorites]
"Our sales figures are down 14% this quarter."
NO BOSS THEY AREN'T
"The project deadline is in two weeks."
NO BOSS IT ISN'T
I had a "partner" like this. When I proved him wrong "yep, NASA says the moon IS full tonight," he literally screamed at me for "being a fucking lawyer." Even when he was wrong, it was MY FAULT that he was wrong.
RUN.
posted by cyndigo at 1:38 PM on September 28, 2021 [18 favorites]
Personally I would find this completely unacceptable in a partner.
What if it was you who was having unexplained symptoms and wanting to see a medical professional to figure out what was wrong and he was insisting that you are fine? What if you were relying on him to care for you when you were recovering from surgery, and he initially claimed to be willing to help but then told you that you didn't need to be on a special diet after all when you weren't well enough to handle this yourself, or didn't need to go to the ER for a complication and he wasn't going to drive you there?
What if there was an emergency and you needed to evacuate? Would he say it's fine and they will put the fire out before it reaches us, would he say the house is higher than the neighbors and we don't need to worry about flooding?
I'd be done. I don't think you can change this, unless he wants to change it. Personally I would not choose to spend my time trying to teach someone not to insist that I am wrong over soy sauce, and I would never be comfortable that they wouldn't suddenly revert back when a time comes when you truly need to be able to rely on each other.
It's a stressful time for me, and I don't want to add more stress by arguing with my boyfriend. I struggle a lot with verbalizing emotions and often end up making the situation worse.
Can you just not talk to him about this anymore? It seems like he wants to minimize the situation so maybe he won't bring it up. If he does just say something neutral like "I hear what you are saying"
posted by yohko at 3:06 PM on September 28, 2021 [6 favorites]
What if it was you who was having unexplained symptoms and wanting to see a medical professional to figure out what was wrong and he was insisting that you are fine? What if you were relying on him to care for you when you were recovering from surgery, and he initially claimed to be willing to help but then told you that you didn't need to be on a special diet after all when you weren't well enough to handle this yourself, or didn't need to go to the ER for a complication and he wasn't going to drive you there?
What if there was an emergency and you needed to evacuate? Would he say it's fine and they will put the fire out before it reaches us, would he say the house is higher than the neighbors and we don't need to worry about flooding?
I'd be done. I don't think you can change this, unless he wants to change it. Personally I would not choose to spend my time trying to teach someone not to insist that I am wrong over soy sauce, and I would never be comfortable that they wouldn't suddenly revert back when a time comes when you truly need to be able to rely on each other.
It's a stressful time for me, and I don't want to add more stress by arguing with my boyfriend. I struggle a lot with verbalizing emotions and often end up making the situation worse.
Can you just not talk to him about this anymore? It seems like he wants to minimize the situation so maybe he won't bring it up. If he does just say something neutral like "I hear what you are saying"
posted by yohko at 3:06 PM on September 28, 2021 [6 favorites]
I had a friend call me out on doing what your partner is doing. I hadn't realized I was being so consistently negative. In my own mind, I was just stating my opinion as part of a conversation.
After being called out, I started paying attention and realized I was doing it to myself, too. My first reaction to my own thoughts was to negate them. I would think, "it's time to eat" and my very next thought would be "no, it's not time yet." I would think, "yay I finished that project" and then think "no, there are still loose ends." I guess with isolated examples it's hard to see, because it just seems like normal vacillating while I figure out what's really going on. But realizing how it made my friend feel was what made me realize I was not treating myself kindly and needed to go back to therapy.
posted by Former Congressional Representative Lenny Lemming at 6:32 PM on September 28, 2021 [9 favorites]
After being called out, I started paying attention and realized I was doing it to myself, too. My first reaction to my own thoughts was to negate them. I would think, "it's time to eat" and my very next thought would be "no, it's not time yet." I would think, "yay I finished that project" and then think "no, there are still loose ends." I guess with isolated examples it's hard to see, because it just seems like normal vacillating while I figure out what's really going on. But realizing how it made my friend feel was what made me realize I was not treating myself kindly and needed to go back to therapy.
posted by Former Congressional Representative Lenny Lemming at 6:32 PM on September 28, 2021 [9 favorites]
I can't answer the situation but I have dealt with that a little bit (your partner is not my partner, their reactions may vary...). My natural instinct, which seemed to work, is to dig right into the issue and reason it out. Like, "we're out of soy sauce" "no, we're not" = "Where did you see an extra bottle? I threw out the open one on Tuesday and checked the top shelf. Did you have one stashed somewhere else?" Like, maybe he did know something, you could be wrong! (I also used to have to tell my partner we are not out of shampoo, there were six bottles under the sink a month ago, did he check under the sink? He has now learned to check under the sink.) The key is it's not about his feelings, this is a facts discussion. And I think one of the effects of this is that it means the fastest, easiest brainless solution (nuh-uh everything is fine let's leave the store) is no longer brainless. He has to show his work. So now either choice has a similar amount of effort. It also gives immediate feedback to him that he's arguing from nothing, and it lets you end up in the right place (buying soy sauce) after a fair input from all parties.
Pets being sick is a different and harder one. I do think he's trying to be comforting. I had to have a couple of emotional/disappointed conversations with my partner about how it's actually much more reassuring than "it'll be fine!" to talk to someone who admits a bad thing might happen, but who will be there with you for it and who will help you deal and cope with it. He got it. He's a smart guy. Maybe yours could be too, and just doesn't have any good models for coping with loss and sadness. Or maybe he'll throw a fit at the idea of doing the work. At least then you'll know better what you're dealing with. Good luck!
posted by Lady Li at 11:15 PM on September 29, 2021 [3 favorites]
Pets being sick is a different and harder one. I do think he's trying to be comforting. I had to have a couple of emotional/disappointed conversations with my partner about how it's actually much more reassuring than "it'll be fine!" to talk to someone who admits a bad thing might happen, but who will be there with you for it and who will help you deal and cope with it. He got it. He's a smart guy. Maybe yours could be too, and just doesn't have any good models for coping with loss and sadness. Or maybe he'll throw a fit at the idea of doing the work. At least then you'll know better what you're dealing with. Good luck!
posted by Lady Li at 11:15 PM on September 29, 2021 [3 favorites]
This thread is closed to new comments.
However it may also be that whitewall’s point is relevant - so, is your partner an optimist generally? Is he likely to want to save money, or is he a last-minute reactor vs a planner?
posted by cotton dress sock at 10:17 PM on September 27, 2021