When Ego and Ignorance Collide
October 24, 2020 11:34 AM Subscribe
I broke the golden rule of never discussing politics and religion at work. I need advice on how to admit to my mistake of an uninformed claim I made.
I work with a coworker who is a conservative and a huge fan of Donald Trump. She is genuinely concerned that if Biden is elected our country will suffer immensely. She uses the term "Fake News" often, doesn't trust the "liberal media" and believes that Fox News is fair and balanced. (Although, if the New York Times came out with an article tomorrow stating that Biden was a liar, I'm pretty confident she would deem it a reputable piece of journalism.). She is passionate about national politics. I want to avoid it as much as possible because I feel it's already so much a part of our lives.
I have a detached attitude regarding politics. I am neither very informed or invested. I get the highlights because my husband is very invested and I listen to and read a little bit of news and listen to some culture podcasts.
I try to avoid politics with family, friends, and colleagues because I don't like the polarization and tension that permeates, and I'd rather live as example of tolerance than get into discussions that have the potential to alienate or distance others -- especially at work where it's not appropriate and there is never enough time to discuss fully.
My husband is very liberal (the Democrats can do no wrong) and my very conservative coworker believes that Trump is godly and often comments on friends and relatives who are liberal as if they are stupid or ridiculous. I see the folly in both of these attitudes. I have my beliefs as an independent thinker who is more of a centrist and liberal minded in the classical sense.
I was on a super good run of avoiding politics until the end of the day at work. My coworker brought something up earlier in the day about fears of the post office not being able to handle mail-in ballots. I believe she was trying to insinuate that if Biden were to win, the reason would be fraud.
Later that day she brought politics up again (Hunter Biden story that just broke) . I asked her if she thought the signature was a forgery and said I thought it was mighty convenient that a legally blind man was in possession of laptops that went to Giuliani, and we could all infer who the blind man was voting for. She said the story was "proven" and I said that the NY Post was a borderline tabloid owned by the Murdochs.
I asked her what she feared if Biden were elected (genuinely interested) and then we got into a discussion about energy and oil. Because I live in the dark ages I thought we were not energy independent. I said we still purchased oil from Canada. (As of 2019 we did -- do we still? I don't know) I also dumbly thought we still purchased from OPEC nations. I said that we buy from others because we can't produce enough, which is not true. I educated myself a bit and learned about pricing and reasons why we imported oil AND I did not realize that fracking supplied so much oil -- I thought it was natural gas only (and said as much) and did not know about horizontal drilling. I feel majorly dumb.
I was questioning her and doubting her claims regarding energy independence and insisting that we can't produce enough when in fact we actually can. I want to say something on Monday to express how I was wrong. It also seems that Biden is not denying emails on the laptops but is denying foreign business so I am also partly wrong regarding my claim that the laptop thing was pure conspiracy.
I want to admit my mistake about oil. I could tell she was upset and was taking my claims and questions as a personal attack when I was trying to be amicable and respectful even if I was uniformed and disagreeing and doubting her.
Thank you for any advice. This isn't a Republican vs. Democrat thing. It's not about if fracking is right or wrong. It's about an error I made and it's about two people who work very closely together. I want to be sincere, and I don't want to be seen as an idiot (the ego pervades) yet I don't know if I should comment or let it go. I made mistakes and all of the facts and news that came after our discussion puts me in a bad light. Thanks for reading.
I work with a coworker who is a conservative and a huge fan of Donald Trump. She is genuinely concerned that if Biden is elected our country will suffer immensely. She uses the term "Fake News" often, doesn't trust the "liberal media" and believes that Fox News is fair and balanced. (Although, if the New York Times came out with an article tomorrow stating that Biden was a liar, I'm pretty confident she would deem it a reputable piece of journalism.). She is passionate about national politics. I want to avoid it as much as possible because I feel it's already so much a part of our lives.
I have a detached attitude regarding politics. I am neither very informed or invested. I get the highlights because my husband is very invested and I listen to and read a little bit of news and listen to some culture podcasts.
I try to avoid politics with family, friends, and colleagues because I don't like the polarization and tension that permeates, and I'd rather live as example of tolerance than get into discussions that have the potential to alienate or distance others -- especially at work where it's not appropriate and there is never enough time to discuss fully.
My husband is very liberal (the Democrats can do no wrong) and my very conservative coworker believes that Trump is godly and often comments on friends and relatives who are liberal as if they are stupid or ridiculous. I see the folly in both of these attitudes. I have my beliefs as an independent thinker who is more of a centrist and liberal minded in the classical sense.
I was on a super good run of avoiding politics until the end of the day at work. My coworker brought something up earlier in the day about fears of the post office not being able to handle mail-in ballots. I believe she was trying to insinuate that if Biden were to win, the reason would be fraud.
Later that day she brought politics up again (Hunter Biden story that just broke) . I asked her if she thought the signature was a forgery and said I thought it was mighty convenient that a legally blind man was in possession of laptops that went to Giuliani, and we could all infer who the blind man was voting for. She said the story was "proven" and I said that the NY Post was a borderline tabloid owned by the Murdochs.
I asked her what she feared if Biden were elected (genuinely interested) and then we got into a discussion about energy and oil. Because I live in the dark ages I thought we were not energy independent. I said we still purchased oil from Canada. (As of 2019 we did -- do we still? I don't know) I also dumbly thought we still purchased from OPEC nations. I said that we buy from others because we can't produce enough, which is not true. I educated myself a bit and learned about pricing and reasons why we imported oil AND I did not realize that fracking supplied so much oil -- I thought it was natural gas only (and said as much) and did not know about horizontal drilling. I feel majorly dumb.
I was questioning her and doubting her claims regarding energy independence and insisting that we can't produce enough when in fact we actually can. I want to say something on Monday to express how I was wrong. It also seems that Biden is not denying emails on the laptops but is denying foreign business so I am also partly wrong regarding my claim that the laptop thing was pure conspiracy.
I want to admit my mistake about oil. I could tell she was upset and was taking my claims and questions as a personal attack when I was trying to be amicable and respectful even if I was uniformed and disagreeing and doubting her.
Thank you for any advice. This isn't a Republican vs. Democrat thing. It's not about if fracking is right or wrong. It's about an error I made and it's about two people who work very closely together. I want to be sincere, and I don't want to be seen as an idiot (the ego pervades) yet I don't know if I should comment or let it go. I made mistakes and all of the facts and news that came after our discussion puts me in a bad light. Thanks for reading.
So I'm not 100% sure what your goal is, but if it's truly just to admit your mistake, I'd go in on Monday and say:
"Hey, after our conversation I looked up some more information, and I was wrong about ____, it's actually _______, so you were right about that! I guess this is why I avoid talking about politics at work."
People love hearing they were right about stuff and that they made you reconsider your view, so my guess is this will smooth things over, while also giving you an opportunity to reiterate your desire to avoid these conversations.
(Personally, I'd say that a Trump supporter has based their entire worldview on lies and misinformation, so I wouldn't feel too bad about being wrong in conversation with them! They literally don't believe in facts! But I realize that's not how you feel about it.)
posted by goodbyewaffles at 11:46 AM on October 24, 2020 [29 favorites]
"Hey, after our conversation I looked up some more information, and I was wrong about ____, it's actually _______, so you were right about that! I guess this is why I avoid talking about politics at work."
People love hearing they were right about stuff and that they made you reconsider your view, so my guess is this will smooth things over, while also giving you an opportunity to reiterate your desire to avoid these conversations.
(Personally, I'd say that a Trump supporter has based their entire worldview on lies and misinformation, so I wouldn't feel too bad about being wrong in conversation with them! They literally don't believe in facts! But I realize that's not how you feel about it.)
posted by goodbyewaffles at 11:46 AM on October 24, 2020 [29 favorites]
Let it go.
Btw, the New York Post is an actual tabloid, not a borderline tabloid. It runs on celebrities, murders and a creepy love/hate relationship with law enforcement.
posted by betweenthebars at 12:36 PM on October 24, 2020 [7 favorites]
Btw, the New York Post is an actual tabloid, not a borderline tabloid. It runs on celebrities, murders and a creepy love/hate relationship with law enforcement.
posted by betweenthebars at 12:36 PM on October 24, 2020 [7 favorites]
There can be no rational debate, because the goal is not consensus, it is domination. Yesterday's headlines were "Biden is going to destroy energy independence" and if you knock that one down she will just pull another one from the deck until one of you gives up. Your retraction will not be met in good faith.
posted by RobotVoodooPower at 12:40 PM on October 24, 2020 [6 favorites]
posted by RobotVoodooPower at 12:40 PM on October 24, 2020 [6 favorites]
I think you could let this go, and one reason is that I'm not sure exactly what your goal is or what you are trying to be sincere about. You made an error, but this sounds very much all about how you feel about being wrong and not about the appropriateness of the conversation or how your coworker felt about it... I'm a little lost.
But... I also like goodbyewaffles 's script; it sounds like you work very closely with this person and like you are both taking this very personally, and this is a good way to acknowledge an error and also state your intention to not go down this path again.
And you really need to not go down this path again. Either way, I think you should acknowledge, at least to yourself, that you totally took the bait (and it was certainly bait) because you wanted to prove her wrong. The way you've worded this question makes me think you aren't actually as detached as perhaps you'd like to be.
posted by sm1tten at 12:41 PM on October 24, 2020
But... I also like goodbyewaffles 's script; it sounds like you work very closely with this person and like you are both taking this very personally, and this is a good way to acknowledge an error and also state your intention to not go down this path again.
And you really need to not go down this path again. Either way, I think you should acknowledge, at least to yourself, that you totally took the bait (and it was certainly bait) because you wanted to prove her wrong. The way you've worded this question makes me think you aren't actually as detached as perhaps you'd like to be.
posted by sm1tten at 12:41 PM on October 24, 2020
I want to admit my mistake about oil. I could tell she was upset and was taking my claims and questions as a personal attack when I was trying to be amicable and respectful even if I was uniformed and disagreeing and doubting her.
It sounds like you want to apologize to her not so much because you told her a thing that was untrue but because you’ve upset her. And the reason she got upset isn’t because you told her a specific untrue fact, but because the combined effect of the things you said contradicted the types of untrue things she believes. She’d still feel upset even if you’d been correct, because it’s not what she believes. She is not interested in the facts; she’s invested in telling you things that support her worldview and belittling those who don’t agree.
If you feel bad for upsetting her, you can apologize for breaking your rule of not discussing politics at work. This will have the combined effect of 1) making you feel better for extending an olive branch 2) making her feel better that you’re acknowledging her hurt feelings 3) neatly avoiding and preventing further political talk, which is what got you in this situation in the first place.
posted by hurdy gurdy girl at 12:51 PM on October 24, 2020 [7 favorites]
It sounds like you want to apologize to her not so much because you told her a thing that was untrue but because you’ve upset her. And the reason she got upset isn’t because you told her a specific untrue fact, but because the combined effect of the things you said contradicted the types of untrue things she believes. She’d still feel upset even if you’d been correct, because it’s not what she believes. She is not interested in the facts; she’s invested in telling you things that support her worldview and belittling those who don’t agree.
If you feel bad for upsetting her, you can apologize for breaking your rule of not discussing politics at work. This will have the combined effect of 1) making you feel better for extending an olive branch 2) making her feel better that you’re acknowledging her hurt feelings 3) neatly avoiding and preventing further political talk, which is what got you in this situation in the first place.
posted by hurdy gurdy girl at 12:51 PM on October 24, 2020 [7 favorites]
I want to be sincere, and I don't want to be seen as an idiot (the ego pervades) yet I don't know if I should comment or let it go.
Let it go and don't talk politics with her again. She worships a man whose entire schtick involves never admitting he's wrong. And will she ever admit she's wrong about him? Probably not.
posted by wondermouse at 1:00 PM on October 24, 2020 [4 favorites]
Let it go and don't talk politics with her again. She worships a man whose entire schtick involves never admitting he's wrong. And will she ever admit she's wrong about him? Probably not.
posted by wondermouse at 1:00 PM on October 24, 2020 [4 favorites]
Neither of you stands to gain anything by prolonging the conversation. Why would you wade back in there again? You’ve reflected privately on your mistake (chances are that’s more than she might have done) and learnt from it. Don’t be drawn back into giving yourself the opportunity to say something else you will regret. If you want to defuse things, come in with coffee and muffins and talk about the (insert harmless topic of your choice here).
posted by Jubey at 1:37 PM on October 24, 2020 [2 favorites]
posted by Jubey at 1:37 PM on October 24, 2020 [2 favorites]
It may not help the conversation in a factual-evidence sense, but I think owning up to your mistake might help from a good-character sense - because admitting you were wrong about something always reflects well on you. Goodbyewaffles has a good script ("hey, I did some further research and you were right about blah"), and it may give her pause that "....wait, you're not doubling down, you're admitting to a mistake. You have good character. Huh." And it may be a TINY little crack that might get her to stop seeing all non-conservatives as a monolithic entity.
posted by EmpressCallipygos at 2:00 PM on October 24, 2020 [4 favorites]
posted by EmpressCallipygos at 2:00 PM on October 24, 2020 [4 favorites]
Tell her you're sorry if she felt attacked, and that you hope you two can continue to be relaxed around each other. Be warm and friendly. The relationship is more important.
posted by amtho at 2:14 PM on October 24, 2020
posted by amtho at 2:14 PM on October 24, 2020
I disagree with most of the answers so far. I definitely don't think you should let it go; I think you should use something like goodbywaffles' script the next time you see her. What a great example you can set! Everyone should be willing to check the facts, realize when they're wrong and admit it. Seeing you do it may make her more willing to do the same thing herself.
posted by Redstart at 2:21 PM on October 24, 2020 [8 favorites]
posted by Redstart at 2:21 PM on October 24, 2020 [8 favorites]
I love goodbyewaffles' script & agree with Redstart that you should bring it up. Admitting you were wrong shows that you respect evidence and facts, and are not entrenched in your belief system regardless of said evidence. This does set a good example for your co-worker to do the same. Frankly, if more people were willing to educate themselves and adjust their beliefs and rhetoric when they are wrong, the world would be a much better place and Trump wouldn't even be the president right now.
posted by DTMFA at 3:07 PM on October 24, 2020 [6 favorites]
posted by DTMFA at 3:07 PM on October 24, 2020 [6 favorites]
By the way, we do still purchase oil from Canada and Saudi Arabia (I just looked it up). The whole Hunter Biden laptop thing is so convoluted I wouldn't touch it with a ten-foot pole. With all the sketchy things Trump and his family have done and still do, it seems disingenuous for people to act like they care so much about Hunter Biden's laptop while ignoring all the Trump family shenanigans. That's the other reason I wouldn't bother bringing it up again just to say you were wrong about these in any specific way. This is really messy stuff.
It might be nice to apologize for upsetting her, saying something generic like "I haven't actually been paying much attention to how we produce oil nowadays and the Hunter Biden story" and saying that's why you hate talking politics at work. And then if she tries to get into those topics again, stay good and don't get into it.
posted by wondermouse at 3:15 PM on October 24, 2020 [2 favorites]
It might be nice to apologize for upsetting her, saying something generic like "I haven't actually been paying much attention to how we produce oil nowadays and the Hunter Biden story" and saying that's why you hate talking politics at work. And then if she tries to get into those topics again, stay good and don't get into it.
posted by wondermouse at 3:15 PM on October 24, 2020 [2 favorites]
I think this is a great opportunity to apologize and model looking up facts and having reliable sources. I might go with something more like this:
"Hey, I could tell that our conversation about oil last week was upsetting to you. It's really important to me to make sure that I have correct information, and so I decided to look up our oil use. I found xxx sources showing that even though we do still buy oil from Canada and Saudia Arabia, we also export some, so that we are net energy independent, just like you said. It was wrong of me to be so adamant about outdated information, and I'm sorry that doing so upset you. Next time, I'll make sure to have the correct information before speaking so strongly about an issue. Is there something I can do to repair the rift in our relationship that this caused? "
posted by lab.beetle at 7:04 PM on October 24, 2020 [1 favorite]
"Hey, I could tell that our conversation about oil last week was upsetting to you. It's really important to me to make sure that I have correct information, and so I decided to look up our oil use. I found xxx sources showing that even though we do still buy oil from Canada and Saudia Arabia, we also export some, so that we are net energy independent, just like you said. It was wrong of me to be so adamant about outdated information, and I'm sorry that doing so upset you. Next time, I'll make sure to have the correct information before speaking so strongly about an issue. Is there something I can do to repair the rift in our relationship that this caused? "
posted by lab.beetle at 7:04 PM on October 24, 2020 [1 favorite]
Response by poster: Thank you all very much. I don't necessarily think my oil claims were upsetting. She is very confident in her righteousness and she probably thinks I'm a dope for not knowing about oil. I think rather she was upset regarding the entire conversation and interaction -- as in she is very passionate about politics and truly fears bad and life- changing events happening if Trump is not elected.
My personality is that of a smoother. I avoid conflict or confrontation. I am very good at changing the subject and there are so many times with this coworker where I have changed the subject or found some sort of commonality, acknowledged the complexity of the situation, or had some sort of understanding and quickly moved on.
This time was different and we were discussing and I was openly disagreeing and I feel bad about it because 1. I was wrong about energy independence 2. We were discussing where others could overhear --customers and coworkers and 3. I am just plain regretful that I engaged at all. She is the one who is bringing politics up when she knows my views and I don't know what her intentions are or why she would bring it up. I never bring politics up. Is she so upset because she views me to be on the "wrong" side that she feels compelled to talk about it? I don't know. Maybe I am overanalyzing the entire thing.
Thanks again for all suggestions and advice. I am going to feel out the situation and if it feels like I can admit my mistake and move on, I will do so.
posted by loveandhappiness at 7:27 AM on October 25, 2020 [1 favorite]
My personality is that of a smoother. I avoid conflict or confrontation. I am very good at changing the subject and there are so many times with this coworker where I have changed the subject or found some sort of commonality, acknowledged the complexity of the situation, or had some sort of understanding and quickly moved on.
This time was different and we were discussing and I was openly disagreeing and I feel bad about it because 1. I was wrong about energy independence 2. We were discussing where others could overhear --customers and coworkers and 3. I am just plain regretful that I engaged at all. She is the one who is bringing politics up when she knows my views and I don't know what her intentions are or why she would bring it up. I never bring politics up. Is she so upset because she views me to be on the "wrong" side that she feels compelled to talk about it? I don't know. Maybe I am overanalyzing the entire thing.
Thanks again for all suggestions and advice. I am going to feel out the situation and if it feels like I can admit my mistake and move on, I will do so.
posted by loveandhappiness at 7:27 AM on October 25, 2020 [1 favorite]
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posted by Klipspringer at 11:41 AM on October 24, 2020 [10 favorites]