Negotiating salary when you get a promotion
May 4, 2020 1:04 PM Subscribe
How does it work?
I might be getting a promotion soon ( my boss told me she is asking management to promote me). If that goes through, I need information about how the salary conversation works.
I (32, F, working in communications in a non profit that pays decently ) know the salary range of my current pay bracket as well as the salary range of the pay bracket I would be promoted into.
I definitely low-balled myself when I initially accepted this job offer. They didn't publish their salary range and I didn't know what to expect and was in a weak negotiation position. For these reasons my salary is currently just below the mid-point mark of my current bracket.
When you are offered a promotion, can you negotiate the salary higher than they offer you? I feel like they are going to low-ball me again because my initial salary was so low. What I think I should be paid falls higher than the mid-point mark of the bracket above what I'm currently in. I am also aware, due to a colleague who found out and told me, that my male colleague makes the maximum amount for the bracket he's in (and which i would also be in were I to be promoted). That colleague complained about it and now she gets the same salary as him.
I'm wondering if I should 'play the pay equity card' if they attempt to low-ball my salary. Instinctively I hate confrontation and I have no idea how to do this, but I'm willing to try it. How do I do so without coming across as whiny? (I know, it's not whiny to want equal pay. That's not what I'm saying). I'm actually looking for help on actually doing it even though it does not come natural to me. And yes, I'm aware that women are socialised to be this way. That's why I'm asking the question.
I'm also wondering , if there is another way to negotiate the salary higher than the amount they give me that doesn't involve the pay equity conversation (not that I don't think women deserve equal pay). The reason I'm thinking this is that the male colleague has a completely different job to me and I'm not sure if we're doing the same work or even how to compare them. We only have a small team and so everyone's work overlaps to some degree, but in my mind I can only really distinguish between managers and managees in terms of level of ''authority'' or ''reason why they would be paid more than others.'' Thanks in advance!
Please don't give me a lecture on why I'm not feminist enough.
I might be getting a promotion soon ( my boss told me she is asking management to promote me). If that goes through, I need information about how the salary conversation works.
I (32, F, working in communications in a non profit that pays decently ) know the salary range of my current pay bracket as well as the salary range of the pay bracket I would be promoted into.
I definitely low-balled myself when I initially accepted this job offer. They didn't publish their salary range and I didn't know what to expect and was in a weak negotiation position. For these reasons my salary is currently just below the mid-point mark of my current bracket.
When you are offered a promotion, can you negotiate the salary higher than they offer you? I feel like they are going to low-ball me again because my initial salary was so low. What I think I should be paid falls higher than the mid-point mark of the bracket above what I'm currently in. I am also aware, due to a colleague who found out and told me, that my male colleague makes the maximum amount for the bracket he's in (and which i would also be in were I to be promoted). That colleague complained about it and now she gets the same salary as him.
I'm wondering if I should 'play the pay equity card' if they attempt to low-ball my salary. Instinctively I hate confrontation and I have no idea how to do this, but I'm willing to try it. How do I do so without coming across as whiny? (I know, it's not whiny to want equal pay. That's not what I'm saying). I'm actually looking for help on actually doing it even though it does not come natural to me. And yes, I'm aware that women are socialised to be this way. That's why I'm asking the question.
I'm also wondering , if there is another way to negotiate the salary higher than the amount they give me that doesn't involve the pay equity conversation (not that I don't think women deserve equal pay). The reason I'm thinking this is that the male colleague has a completely different job to me and I'm not sure if we're doing the same work or even how to compare them. We only have a small team and so everyone's work overlaps to some degree, but in my mind I can only really distinguish between managers and managees in terms of level of ''authority'' or ''reason why they would be paid more than others.'' Thanks in advance!
Please don't give me a lecture on why I'm not feminist enough.
You can always negotiate, and the promotion is a decent point for starting a discussion, but it doesn't really give you additional leverage over other times beyond just confirmation they like what you're doing. The low confrontation way to do this isn't much different than sharing what you shared here.
So: You tell them took the job at a relatively low salary (as you now know). You appreciate the job and have done good work. You think the pay should represent the work you are doing and not the initial low entry point, and want to know if there's a way to move it in that direction. Have a number you think is fair clear in your head, but listen to their response to each statement/question you have. See if they are agreeing with you on the basic facts. At some point you can give them the number you picked and ask when you might expect to be there.
If you feel you need to push more you can start offering timing options: "Is there a way to get a one time boost? Well, what about a midyear adjustment? Surely next review cycle?" In my experience you won't be getting a concrete answer no matter what you say in the moment; you are trying to be sure they are really thinking about it.
From their point of view: I as manager expected newly promoted people to be on the lower end of a range, and catch up to the mid point over a couple years. So a request to make as much as Colleague A, who has been in the position for five years, would for me not be a good starting point for negotiation.
Having been on both sides of this, the nonconfrontational approach can work but is often slow and opaque. The more "give me X or I'm looking for better offers" can get quicker (and possibly larger) results but has a higher possibility of backfiring.
posted by mark k at 3:25 PM on May 4, 2020
So: You tell them took the job at a relatively low salary (as you now know). You appreciate the job and have done good work. You think the pay should represent the work you are doing and not the initial low entry point, and want to know if there's a way to move it in that direction. Have a number you think is fair clear in your head, but listen to their response to each statement/question you have. See if they are agreeing with you on the basic facts. At some point you can give them the number you picked and ask when you might expect to be there.
If you feel you need to push more you can start offering timing options: "Is there a way to get a one time boost? Well, what about a midyear adjustment? Surely next review cycle?" In my experience you won't be getting a concrete answer no matter what you say in the moment; you are trying to be sure they are really thinking about it.
From their point of view: I as manager expected newly promoted people to be on the lower end of a range, and catch up to the mid point over a couple years. So a request to make as much as Colleague A, who has been in the position for five years, would for me not be a good starting point for negotiation.
Having been on both sides of this, the nonconfrontational approach can work but is often slow and opaque. The more "give me X or I'm looking for better offers" can get quicker (and possibly larger) results but has a higher possibility of backfiring.
posted by mark k at 3:25 PM on May 4, 2020
Absolutely you should and can negotiate the salary bump that is part of your promotion. When they make the offer, say thank you very much, express how excited you are for the opportunity and increased responsibility. And then tell whoever is making you the offer that you would like a day to digest the offer they've made and discuss it with your partner/family.
Then the next day you come back and say again how grateful you are for the opportunity, how much you enjoy working for the organization and how excited you are to start the new role. Then you say that having done some research into the accepted salary for this position in this area that you believe you should be getting X.
Do not bring up the fact that you initially accepted a lower offer, that's beside the point now. Don't use conditional/apologetic language. Do provide examples of your accomplishments, education/training you've received in the interim, and any professional recognition you've received as additional justifications for why you are worth what you are asking for.
If they don't accept your counter offer, then you can say something like, "It's my understanding that people in this organization in a comparable position make X, what do you think is an appropriate timeline for getting to that point? What would I need to do in this new role to be at that level. If they aren't able to give you what you want at this moment, then you should use this time to hammer out a plan that would get you there and a time to revisit this salary question. So if you do A, B & C by the end of the year or by the next performance review cycle could a higher than merit increase bump to get you to a more equitable level of pay be on the table. That shows that you are willing to work for something (not coming from a "whiny" place) and makes it clear when you are going to discuss this again so you don't have to worry and wonder about how to bring up an increase in salary at a later date.
posted by brookeb at 5:24 PM on May 4, 2020
Then the next day you come back and say again how grateful you are for the opportunity, how much you enjoy working for the organization and how excited you are to start the new role. Then you say that having done some research into the accepted salary for this position in this area that you believe you should be getting X.
Do not bring up the fact that you initially accepted a lower offer, that's beside the point now. Don't use conditional/apologetic language. Do provide examples of your accomplishments, education/training you've received in the interim, and any professional recognition you've received as additional justifications for why you are worth what you are asking for.
If they don't accept your counter offer, then you can say something like, "It's my understanding that people in this organization in a comparable position make X, what do you think is an appropriate timeline for getting to that point? What would I need to do in this new role to be at that level. If they aren't able to give you what you want at this moment, then you should use this time to hammer out a plan that would get you there and a time to revisit this salary question. So if you do A, B & C by the end of the year or by the next performance review cycle could a higher than merit increase bump to get you to a more equitable level of pay be on the table. That shows that you are willing to work for something (not coming from a "whiny" place) and makes it clear when you are going to discuss this again so you don't have to worry and wonder about how to bring up an increase in salary at a later date.
posted by brookeb at 5:24 PM on May 4, 2020
Response by poster: Thanks for the answer so far. Just wanted to point out that the other person that demanded a raise had actually only been there about 4 months at the time - I started 2 months before them. The person who was making more than both of us was the newest hire and had only been there 3 months at the time.
posted by winterportage at 6:17 PM on May 4, 2020
posted by winterportage at 6:17 PM on May 4, 2020
I would suggest you ignore everything in my answer that isn't just common sense then. If they are willing to renegotiate after a couple months it's a different situation than I'm familiar with. Good luck!
posted by mark k at 9:03 PM on May 4, 2020
posted by mark k at 9:03 PM on May 4, 2020
The renegotiation thing raises some questions for me: are the positions involved ones that are new to your organization?
As for doing salary research, if you can get your hands on CharityVillage's most recent Canadian Nonprofit Sector Salary & Benefits Report, that could provide some helpful intel. Don't buy it yourself, ask someone within your non-profit professional network outside of out office if they have access to it. In my experience, usually someone somewhere can share access with you.
Although, you're at a non-profit that pays decently and has enough HR acumen to have what sounds like actual HR and meaningful salary scales, which isn't all that common. It's possible if not likely that they're pretty well-aligned to the sector's broader benchmarks, which may or may not change your negotiation strategy. mark k's point about placing newly-promoted people towards the bottom of a salary scale is important to keep in mind, if only because your employer may want to avoid salary compression issues. That becomes a separate issue from you negotiating a too-low salary for your previous position.
I don't know why anyone would want to lecture you over not being feminist enough. Bringing sociodemographic factors into initial salary negotiations (and I say this as a WoC) is probably a bad idea, and if nothing else not the best way to make an argument for your compensation. Pay equity is important, yet it's also somewhat difficult for you to assess when the male colleague you're comparing yourself to is doing a fundamentally different job from yours. Salary compression aside, there isn't a set expectation that all manager salaries ought to have the same premium above direct report compensation, so make sure you're armed with information on what people doing your new job typically make at larger non-profits. Best of luck!
posted by blerghamot at 1:54 AM on May 5, 2020
As for doing salary research, if you can get your hands on CharityVillage's most recent Canadian Nonprofit Sector Salary & Benefits Report, that could provide some helpful intel. Don't buy it yourself, ask someone within your non-profit professional network outside of out office if they have access to it. In my experience, usually someone somewhere can share access with you.
Although, you're at a non-profit that pays decently and has enough HR acumen to have what sounds like actual HR and meaningful salary scales, which isn't all that common. It's possible if not likely that they're pretty well-aligned to the sector's broader benchmarks, which may or may not change your negotiation strategy. mark k's point about placing newly-promoted people towards the bottom of a salary scale is important to keep in mind, if only because your employer may want to avoid salary compression issues. That becomes a separate issue from you negotiating a too-low salary for your previous position.
I don't know why anyone would want to lecture you over not being feminist enough. Bringing sociodemographic factors into initial salary negotiations (and I say this as a WoC) is probably a bad idea, and if nothing else not the best way to make an argument for your compensation. Pay equity is important, yet it's also somewhat difficult for you to assess when the male colleague you're comparing yourself to is doing a fundamentally different job from yours. Salary compression aside, there isn't a set expectation that all manager salaries ought to have the same premium above direct report compensation, so make sure you're armed with information on what people doing your new job typically make at larger non-profits. Best of luck!
posted by blerghamot at 1:54 AM on May 5, 2020
You need to play an assertive role here. I suggest you use a technique known as "anchoring". So for example, you might say "well, my counterpart at XYZ Non-Profit with commensurate skills an experience as me, is on 60K". This lets your employer know your salary expectations and can be a good starting point for negotiation.
posted by jacobean at 4:59 AM on May 5, 2020
posted by jacobean at 4:59 AM on May 5, 2020
You can *definitely* negotiate a higher salary when being offered a promotion, absolutely. Its the perfect time to do so, take advantage of the opportunity!
I also think the safest way to successfully negotiate a salary at a non-profit is to push for one that is commensurate with your colleagues at the organization. It sounds like you are underpaid vis a vis your colleagues - using the knowledge you have, push very hard with that internal inconsistency.
Some folks say look industry-wide at salaries. While that is a good way to determine what your salary might be on the market and when you change jobs, usually internal decision makers at non-profits think they are all special snowflakes (and in some ways they are, as lots of their funding is restricted) so their salary structure is internally logical. If you say hey, over at X non-profit, they pay $20,000 more for comms staff, the response will be "yeah but their funding structure is different and we have no way of paying that level."
posted by RajahKing at 8:15 AM on May 5, 2020
I also think the safest way to successfully negotiate a salary at a non-profit is to push for one that is commensurate with your colleagues at the organization. It sounds like you are underpaid vis a vis your colleagues - using the knowledge you have, push very hard with that internal inconsistency.
Some folks say look industry-wide at salaries. While that is a good way to determine what your salary might be on the market and when you change jobs, usually internal decision makers at non-profits think they are all special snowflakes (and in some ways they are, as lots of their funding is restricted) so their salary structure is internally logical. If you say hey, over at X non-profit, they pay $20,000 more for comms staff, the response will be "yeah but their funding structure is different and we have no way of paying that level."
posted by RajahKing at 8:15 AM on May 5, 2020
Best answer: When I was presented with a salary offer for a promotion that I knew was 15% below the appropriate target at that organization, my response was:
"I am so excited about the promotion, and I deeply appreciate that you are recognizing my contributions and performance with this title. However, the salary isn't quite what I expected. I'm aware that the median salary for this level at this organization is X. What can we do to close this gap?"
During the conversation(s) that ensued, I began *every* statement I made with an acknowledgement of appreciation for the offer they made me, and how it recognized what I brought to the team, and then reiterated my ask. This was a conversation that was repeated, both with my line manager and with the HR team, a few times over the next 8-10 weeks. They knew that I knew other salaries, and the equal pay issue was one that I sort of... left loudly unsaid? I talked around it a lot. I acknowledged that I didn't negotiate well when I joined the organization, and "yes, I recognize that I'm asking for a huge bump in one go, but the company got a great discount on me for the past 15 months, and that needs to end now."
In the end, I got an external offer that was a >20% bump, and they made me a counter offer for exactly what I'd asked for in the first place - but because my boss was a nightmare in other ways, I took the external offer.
posted by amelioration at 8:37 AM on May 5, 2020 [3 favorites]
"I am so excited about the promotion, and I deeply appreciate that you are recognizing my contributions and performance with this title. However, the salary isn't quite what I expected. I'm aware that the median salary for this level at this organization is X. What can we do to close this gap?"
During the conversation(s) that ensued, I began *every* statement I made with an acknowledgement of appreciation for the offer they made me, and how it recognized what I brought to the team, and then reiterated my ask. This was a conversation that was repeated, both with my line manager and with the HR team, a few times over the next 8-10 weeks. They knew that I knew other salaries, and the equal pay issue was one that I sort of... left loudly unsaid? I talked around it a lot. I acknowledged that I didn't negotiate well when I joined the organization, and "yes, I recognize that I'm asking for a huge bump in one go, but the company got a great discount on me for the past 15 months, and that needs to end now."
In the end, I got an external offer that was a >20% bump, and they made me a counter offer for exactly what I'd asked for in the first place - but because my boss was a nightmare in other ways, I took the external offer.
posted by amelioration at 8:37 AM on May 5, 2020 [3 favorites]
If they aren’t as forthcoming as you'd hope for on the money end of things, try pushing for more paid leave days.
posted by bonobothegreat at 11:53 AM on May 5, 2020
posted by bonobothegreat at 11:53 AM on May 5, 2020
This thread is closed to new comments.
As far as broaching the conversation, I think it's fine to say that based on your research you were expecting a salary closer to X, and since they gave your colleague a raise without a lot of fuss, I'd ask for the top of the bracket. YMMV if your colleague is much more experienced/accomplished than you are. You will ideally have ready some examples of great things you did that justify your salary (saving the org money, work beyond or at the upper edge of your job description, specialized skills and experience) and possibly also mention that you believe your current salary doesn't reflect the great work you've been doing. It may help to practice saying these things out loud in private first.
I wouldn't worry much about whether you have enough authority to get paid X. Your employer has placed you in the same pay bracket, you have approximately the same responsibility level, it's not an exact science.
(This is hard, I am also bad at it, good luck!)
posted by momus_window at 2:44 PM on May 4, 2020