Stay Or Go
March 11, 2020 2:50 PM Subscribe
Despite efforts, my mouse situation is not improving at my apartment. I'm considering jumping ship, which would be expensive.
I live in a city in Ohio. Current apartment lease is through July. Potential apartment has a may availability so I'd be paying a lot in fees moving out early. I'm vision impaired and dependent on public transportation. Have a stable job working with a school district. Have enough in savings to cover fees comfortably though obviously not ideal. I can also comfortably the higher rent at potential apartment.
Current Apartment:
-dealing with mice for going on 6 weeks despite treatments inside and out, patching of holes inside and out, and a plethora of mouse traps that have been
-On first floor
-Lived here happily for 2.5 years without incident
-Excellent access to public transportation (5 minute walk to 2 bus stops, 5 minute bus ride to work)
-Planned on staying 1 more year at least before buying a house or condo
-Not modernized at all (no central air, no dishwasher, no garbage disposal, oven is miniature sized, no in-unit laundry, very sparse outlets)
-Love 1940s style - it's small but feels big, isn't cookie cutter, feels like "mine"
-$715/month (with pet rent)
Potential Apartment
-good ratings, residents say maintenance is responsive
-Would probably only stay 1-2 years before buying own place
-10 minute walk to work and to the bus stop
-Bigger, built 1980s does have washer/dryer hookups, dishwasher, regular appliances
-Not as unique but better pool, fitness room, balcony
-May apartment would be third floor
-$760 (with pet rent)
The mouse situation is really impacting me. I don't eat at home. I can't sleep. The only room I access is my bedroom. I'm looking for any advice, anything to guide me on making a decision.
I live in a city in Ohio. Current apartment lease is through July. Potential apartment has a may availability so I'd be paying a lot in fees moving out early. I'm vision impaired and dependent on public transportation. Have a stable job working with a school district. Have enough in savings to cover fees comfortably though obviously not ideal. I can also comfortably the higher rent at potential apartment.
Current Apartment:
-dealing with mice for going on 6 weeks despite treatments inside and out, patching of holes inside and out, and a plethora of mouse traps that have been
-On first floor
-Lived here happily for 2.5 years without incident
-Excellent access to public transportation (5 minute walk to 2 bus stops, 5 minute bus ride to work)
-Planned on staying 1 more year at least before buying a house or condo
-Not modernized at all (no central air, no dishwasher, no garbage disposal, oven is miniature sized, no in-unit laundry, very sparse outlets)
-Love 1940s style - it's small but feels big, isn't cookie cutter, feels like "mine"
-$715/month (with pet rent)
Potential Apartment
-good ratings, residents say maintenance is responsive
-Would probably only stay 1-2 years before buying own place
-10 minute walk to work and to the bus stop
-Bigger, built 1980s does have washer/dryer hookups, dishwasher, regular appliances
-Not as unique but better pool, fitness room, balcony
-May apartment would be third floor
-$760 (with pet rent)
The mouse situation is really impacting me. I don't eat at home. I can't sleep. The only room I access is my bedroom. I'm looking for any advice, anything to guide me on making a decision.
I agree, proceeding, particularly that drastically, without first applying liberal doses of kat isn't prudent.
posted by humboldt32 at 3:15 PM on March 11, 2020 [1 favorite]
posted by humboldt32 at 3:15 PM on March 11, 2020 [1 favorite]
The Ohio law covering landlord responsibilities requires them to maintain units such that pests are not a problem (The Right to Habitability), assuming you aren't keeping a disgusting hovel that attracts them. Write a letter to your landlord (or call them and send a letter afterward to memorialize it) requesting that they eliminate the mouse problem in your apartment and to follow up with you in 5-10 business days. If they refuse, try to pin it back on you, or ignore you, call the Health Department on day 11 (or 6).
Here is some good stuff to read, though if you live in a large city there may be additional ordinances and building code requirements, not to mention a Tenant's Union or similar. That PDF refers to a Tenant Advocacy Project that can help you with the rigor for your requests that as a random internet person I cannot provide, as well as pointing you to local resources. On second thought, you should probably read that page before following any of my advice. :)
Ohio appears to have an anti-retaliation law, so don't be afraid to demand this stuff!
PS Some of this stuff only applies if the building has four or more units.
posted by rhizome at 3:20 PM on March 11, 2020 [5 favorites]
Here is some good stuff to read, though if you live in a large city there may be additional ordinances and building code requirements, not to mention a Tenant's Union or similar. That PDF refers to a Tenant Advocacy Project that can help you with the rigor for your requests that as a random internet person I cannot provide, as well as pointing you to local resources. On second thought, you should probably read that page before following any of my advice. :)
Ohio appears to have an anti-retaliation law, so don't be afraid to demand this stuff!
PS Some of this stuff only applies if the building has four or more units.
posted by rhizome at 3:20 PM on March 11, 2020 [5 favorites]
Response by poster: I can't hire an exterminator because they would need access to areas I'm not allowed to give access to as a tenant. I'm also pretty allergic to cats and I don't have any friends who I could borrow a cat for for just a short time. My dog is also not cat friendly. My apartment complex has a corporate owner and definitely has more than four units probably 200.
posted by Aranquis at 3:29 PM on March 11, 2020
posted by Aranquis at 3:29 PM on March 11, 2020
The landlord should be hiring the exterminator and giving them access to any necessary areas. Have you communicated with them? I understand the grim sense of having creepy-crawlies in your home, but it seems like you'd be blowing a lot of money that you're saving for a goal right now.
posted by praemunire at 3:34 PM on March 11, 2020 [5 favorites]
posted by praemunire at 3:34 PM on March 11, 2020 [5 favorites]
Response by poster: I've been in contact with my apartment complex and maintenance many many times over this time. 11 calls and seven or eight visits by maintenance. they say there's nothing more they can do I just have to wait until they die. I don't mean to keep commentimg so I think that covers it
posted by Aranquis at 3:42 PM on March 11, 2020
posted by Aranquis at 3:42 PM on March 11, 2020
If staying is still an option:
- How are you patching holes?
- Have you found all of them?
Using coarse steel wool and (as appropriate) spray insulation foam, I was able to patch up several holes around my old Philadelphia apartment and current home elsewhere. The mice I've been unfortunate to meet could never get through the stuff.
But it does take a willingness to go through and be absolutely merciless about closing every point of ingress: behind a stove or fridge, underneath kitchen and bathroom sinks, ventilation for clothes driers, baseboards, etc. Any hole larger than a nickel in diameter is potentially enough for a mouse to get through. Following mice droppings can help track them.
All that said, you'd probably want to clear this sort of thing with the landlord, or be comfortable with the idea of possibly losing a security deposit (even if you'd be doing the landlord and next tenant a huge favor). Spray foam also expands like crazy, so use it sparingly, if at all.
posted by They sucked his brains out! at 3:46 PM on March 11, 2020
- How are you patching holes?
- Have you found all of them?
Using coarse steel wool and (as appropriate) spray insulation foam, I was able to patch up several holes around my old Philadelphia apartment and current home elsewhere. The mice I've been unfortunate to meet could never get through the stuff.
But it does take a willingness to go through and be absolutely merciless about closing every point of ingress: behind a stove or fridge, underneath kitchen and bathroom sinks, ventilation for clothes driers, baseboards, etc. Any hole larger than a nickel in diameter is potentially enough for a mouse to get through. Following mice droppings can help track them.
All that said, you'd probably want to clear this sort of thing with the landlord, or be comfortable with the idea of possibly losing a security deposit (even if you'd be doing the landlord and next tenant a huge favor). Spray foam also expands like crazy, so use it sparingly, if at all.
posted by They sucked his brains out! at 3:46 PM on March 11, 2020
honey it’s worth an extra twelve bucks a week. i dealt with a horrifying mouse problem and a landlord who wouldn’t do anything. i too could not sleep. we had to get rid of furniture. how much would it cost you to replace your destroyed stuff? go. get out of there. before one runs over your hand as you nap on the couch.
posted by Hypatia at 3:47 PM on March 11, 2020 [12 favorites]
posted by Hypatia at 3:47 PM on March 11, 2020 [12 favorites]
they say there's nothing more they can do I just have to wait until they die.
This is bullshit, particularly because it assumes the mice are celibate. They are hoping you just shut up about it, but they have responsibilities here.
posted by rhizome at 3:50 PM on March 11, 2020 [8 favorites]
This is bullshit, particularly because it assumes the mice are celibate. They are hoping you just shut up about it, but they have responsibilities here.
posted by rhizome at 3:50 PM on March 11, 2020 [8 favorites]
I'd contact a tenants rights org and get their advice. You have a right to rodent-free habitability. You may have options beyond calling maintenance repeatedly or moving out and paying fees to leave a place that doesn't meet legal thresholds for habitability.
posted by quince at 3:53 PM on March 11, 2020 [5 favorites]
posted by quince at 3:53 PM on March 11, 2020 [5 favorites]
This page describes the possible steps of the process, but talk to someone knowledgeable first (likely free or close to it (I have a $50 membership to a tenant's union that gets me better access to advice):
1. Write letter
2. They have 30 days to fix, and merely receiving the letter starts this clock. (mention 5321.07(B))
3. If they don't get to fixin', you can start paying your rent to the clerk of the court, which will motivate the landlord through a lightened wallet.
4. Apply to the court for a rent reduction, which means you get some or all of that money back (talk to someone about these steps first!) until fixed.
5. You can also apply to the court to use all of the rent you would normally be paying in order to fix the problem. So you'd hire and pay construction people, fancy pest companies, etc. while paying zero rent.
6. Break your lease, if necessary.
IANAL, but I am talking to a lawyer in a different state these days about something similar.
posted by rhizome at 4:00 PM on March 11, 2020 [3 favorites]
1. Write letter
2. They have 30 days to fix, and merely receiving the letter starts this clock. (mention 5321.07(B))
3. If they don't get to fixin', you can start paying your rent to the clerk of the court, which will motivate the landlord through a lightened wallet.
4. Apply to the court for a rent reduction, which means you get some or all of that money back (talk to someone about these steps first!) until fixed.
5. You can also apply to the court to use all of the rent you would normally be paying in order to fix the problem. So you'd hire and pay construction people, fancy pest companies, etc. while paying zero rent.
6. Break your lease, if necessary.
IANAL, but I am talking to a lawyer in a different state these days about something similar.
posted by rhizome at 4:00 PM on March 11, 2020 [3 favorites]
Go over their heads - look up the manager and owner. Provide a list of calls and treatments, and ask them to do more. You can take it up a few notches. Their maintenance and management is failing. Put it in writing, because it signals to them that formal action is next. They may be betting on warmer weather luring them outside...keep the pressure on.
posted by childofTethys at 4:12 PM on March 11, 2020
posted by childofTethys at 4:12 PM on March 11, 2020
what kind of traps and where were they placed? I mean, agree with others your landlord has a responsibility to deal with this.. but , in case it is useful info - the placing of the traps should be very strategic. I'm told by my exterminator old fashioned snap traps are best, but they need to be placed along mouse "routes", near walls, so that as mice run along their routes they can't help but walk over the trap. they should be bated with the tiniest amount of peanut butter imaginable, bc large globs they can grab w/o injury. they pretty much pee all the time, so if you have a friend and a hardware store nearby (and things haven't progressed to the mouse-grease-on-wall stage, in which case friend could see with naked eye) you can buy a black lightbulb and a clip-light (the utility kind, most hardware stores have them) and then you all might be able to figure out their habits by using it to look for their pee. This is where traps should be placed, every couple feet - especially frequent placement near wherever you may be able to discover they are entering from.
I don't know.. I suppose we can't really say what's best for you vis-à-vis the hassle of a move. Moving is my kryptonite so if it were me to be honest, even though one shouldn't have to, I would just hire an exterminator myself and figure better to ask forgiveness than permission, regarding the areas you're not supposed to let someone access, and figure that the cost of the exterminator would be cheaper than moving prematurely plus.. worth it depending on what value one ascribes to peace of mind and stability.
The exterminator I last worked with also placed some outside bait boxes as well, but only in areas/places where domestic pets couldn't access them, but that's not totally necessary.
hope this helps, best of luck..
posted by elgee at 4:43 PM on March 11, 2020
I don't know.. I suppose we can't really say what's best for you vis-à-vis the hassle of a move. Moving is my kryptonite so if it were me to be honest, even though one shouldn't have to, I would just hire an exterminator myself and figure better to ask forgiveness than permission, regarding the areas you're not supposed to let someone access, and figure that the cost of the exterminator would be cheaper than moving prematurely plus.. worth it depending on what value one ascribes to peace of mind and stability.
The exterminator I last worked with also placed some outside bait boxes as well, but only in areas/places where domestic pets couldn't access them, but that's not totally necessary.
hope this helps, best of luck..
posted by elgee at 4:43 PM on March 11, 2020
I’m on team move, and hire a lawyer to write a letter to your management company threatening whatever they legally can if management refuses to waive any early termination fees. This shouldn’t take much time on the attorney’s part, and having worked in property management for a long time I can tell you that a scary letter from a tenant’s attorney was almost always enough to swing things in their favor.
posted by nancynickerson at 5:26 PM on March 11, 2020 [2 favorites]
posted by nancynickerson at 5:26 PM on March 11, 2020 [2 favorites]
The question I’d be asking is are they treating the whole building or just your apartment? If they’re just treating your apartment and not everywhere else, the issue will just keep coming back, in which case I’d move.
posted by Jubey at 6:01 PM on March 11, 2020 [2 favorites]
posted by Jubey at 6:01 PM on March 11, 2020 [2 favorites]
I used to be a landlord, somewhere with probably different tenant laws, but your landlord has to provide you with a a livable apartment. Mice are considered vermin, and a space with vermin is not livable. If your landlord cannot and does not resolve the mice problem in a reasonable period of time, you may be able to withhold rent, and I would be pretty surprised if this wasn't usable to break a lease and avoid any penalties. Tenant law varies, a lot, by town and state, but livability is pretty basic. Find the nearest legal aid office; they will probably have a handbook outlining your rights and responsibilities. And a form letter to use, maybe even some services.
I get mice in a storage trailer and they are really destructive. Many,many people recommend mint - specifically Irish Spring soap, which is heavily scented. If you want to trap some, get a 5 gallon bucket, oil the sides of the bucket, put a small amount of peanut butter in it, use a board as a ramp up to the edge of the bucket. Mice jump in to get delicious-smelling PB, can't climb out. You take them at least a a mile away to pester someone else because you are too soft to murder them. I have not tried this.
This is miserable. Don't let your landlord pull this crap; it's not okay.
posted by theora55 at 7:08 PM on March 11, 2020 [1 favorite]
I get mice in a storage trailer and they are really destructive. Many,many people recommend mint - specifically Irish Spring soap, which is heavily scented. If you want to trap some, get a 5 gallon bucket, oil the sides of the bucket, put a small amount of peanut butter in it, use a board as a ramp up to the edge of the bucket. Mice jump in to get delicious-smelling PB, can't climb out. You take them at least a a mile away to pester someone else because you are too soft to murder them. I have not tried this.
This is miserable. Don't let your landlord pull this crap; it's not okay.
posted by theora55 at 7:08 PM on March 11, 2020 [1 favorite]
A good cat could kill about 5 mice in an afternoon. You don’t need to be there. Can you and the dog leave for that time? Roll up your rugs and textiles to minimize cat allergens. I would put an ad on a local Facebook page and just pay someone $20 to lend you a mouser.
posted by nouvelle-personne at 9:27 PM on March 11, 2020
posted by nouvelle-personne at 9:27 PM on March 11, 2020
this sounds exhausting and i feel for you. unless being on the third floor and having a longer walk to the bus is a big negative for you, i would say move. you shouldn't HAVE to move, but clearly your landlord doesn't care. perhaps tell them that if they don't address it you WILL be moving? it's easier to keep a tenant than find one.
posted by misanthropicsarah at 7:36 AM on March 12, 2020
posted by misanthropicsarah at 7:36 AM on March 12, 2020
Have you considered signing up with a local shelter to provide foster care for rescue cats that need temporary homes? You and your temporary cat could really help each other out.
posted by orange swan at 11:26 AM on March 12, 2020
posted by orange swan at 11:26 AM on March 12, 2020
This thread is closed to new comments.
posted by crunchy potato at 3:13 PM on March 11, 2020