A dog for the “spirited” child
December 30, 2019 6:55 AM Subscribe
Our 5.5 year old is a “spirited kid” to borrow from Mary Sheedy Kurcinka’s work. We’d like to get a dog in the spring (probably a puppy and probably from a breeder). Can you recommend a breed (and a breeder) that might be a good fit for our needs?
Kiddo (only child) is very clever, caring, and runs on jet fuel. Mom and dad have our hands full. We work full days, though mom is works in town and we have grandparents nearby who can stop in and see the dog (and we may get a dog walker).
We have a small house, but a reasonably sized (currently unfenced) yard. We live near a lot of public space (trails, parks, etc.). 30 lbs or less in size, I think.
None of us is allergic to dogs, but we’d prefer low shedding. Less barking is highly preferred. There are no other pets and no younger siblings in the future.
We would like a dog that that complements, and would respond well to, our daughter’s personality (loving, energetic, not what you would call “quiet!”) but NOT (omg not) her twin in dog form. We need a chill dog that will keep up with her, and not a “spirited” noisy dog. Lapdogs are fine, but at least this dog should be affectionate and cuddly (and not, eg, potentially aloof like a Basenji, though of course all dogs are different).
We’ve done a few dog finder tools online, but thought we’d ask the Hive. What would you recommend, particularly if you have paired a spirited kid with a happy dog?
Kiddo (only child) is very clever, caring, and runs on jet fuel. Mom and dad have our hands full. We work full days, though mom is works in town and we have grandparents nearby who can stop in and see the dog (and we may get a dog walker).
We have a small house, but a reasonably sized (currently unfenced) yard. We live near a lot of public space (trails, parks, etc.). 30 lbs or less in size, I think.
None of us is allergic to dogs, but we’d prefer low shedding. Less barking is highly preferred. There are no other pets and no younger siblings in the future.
We would like a dog that that complements, and would respond well to, our daughter’s personality (loving, energetic, not what you would call “quiet!”) but NOT (omg not) her twin in dog form. We need a chill dog that will keep up with her, and not a “spirited” noisy dog. Lapdogs are fine, but at least this dog should be affectionate and cuddly (and not, eg, potentially aloof like a Basenji, though of course all dogs are different).
We’ve done a few dog finder tools online, but thought we’d ask the Hive. What would you recommend, particularly if you have paired a spirited kid with a happy dog?
Breed selection can tell you some things, like predicted energy level, or whether the dog is likely to be good with training and commands. (And can definitely help with the pet hair question.) But some of what you’re describing is really the individual personality of a dog, which is unpredictable and (at least in my experience) has nothing to do with breed. Growing up we had some breeder dogs that fit exactly their breed reputation and others that were nothing at all like they were “supposed” to be. I’ve especially found this to be true with poodles and all the new -doodle breeds, who can be remarkably different from each other.
My recommendation would be for you to make a list of breeds that fit your qualifications for hair, size, and likely energy level, and then see if you can find a rescue (whether breed-specific or not) that includes foster dogs. I’d aim for adopting a dog that’s 6 months to two years old and has been with a foster family that has kids for at least a couple weeks, who can tell you about the dog’s personality.
Just keep in mind that if you purchase a purebred puppy, in a lot of ways you’re getting a question mark—if you do have the flexibility to adapt to a dog that might be different from what you expect, that’s one thing. But if you want to ensure that you’ll get a dog that’s easy to handle (and good practice for your kid), I’m not sure a brand new puppy is right for you.
posted by sallybrown at 7:11 AM on December 30, 2019 [10 favorites]
My recommendation would be for you to make a list of breeds that fit your qualifications for hair, size, and likely energy level, and then see if you can find a rescue (whether breed-specific or not) that includes foster dogs. I’d aim for adopting a dog that’s 6 months to two years old and has been with a foster family that has kids for at least a couple weeks, who can tell you about the dog’s personality.
Just keep in mind that if you purchase a purebred puppy, in a lot of ways you’re getting a question mark—if you do have the flexibility to adapt to a dog that might be different from what you expect, that’s one thing. But if you want to ensure that you’ll get a dog that’s easy to handle (and good practice for your kid), I’m not sure a brand new puppy is right for you.
posted by sallybrown at 7:11 AM on December 30, 2019 [10 favorites]
My daughter is "spirited" (but older than yours). We are all devoted to the family dog. Let me make a case for you getting 1) getting a rescue dog and 2) getting a puppy you can socialize and 3) getting a pit bull.
1) many breeders raise their dogs in unhealthy conditions - there is no way to know for sure what kind of breeder you're working with, and the industry is generally unregulated and dangerous for dogs. As mentioned above, getting a specific breed is no guarantee of temperament. There are limitless dogs out there that need a home.
2) Get a puppy so you can set boundaries and standards early. From very early puppyhood they can learn to sit on command, be taught not to jump up, and be socialized for affection. If you get a dog who spent a lot of time in breeders kennels instead of with people, you're missing socialization time.
3) Where I live most rescue dogs are pit bulls. They have a bad reputation because this breed is often raised to be aggressive. This has nothing inherent to do with the breed and everything to do with how people treat them. Pit bulls tend to be extremely affectionate, loving, loyal nanny dogs. Ours sits in our laps every chance he gets. He snuggles up to strangers if we let him. He stays by my side on the trail. He sleeps in my daughter's bed at night. He has good recall, sits, lies down, shakes, etc on command. He has short hair and doesn't shed much.
When picking a puppy I was advised to choose hte one who is not too crazy but also not too quiet. My daughter picked the pup who gently teetered over and put his muzzle in her hand, then crawled into her lap. His temperament is still like that now that he's full grown.
posted by latkes at 7:39 AM on December 30, 2019 [11 favorites]
1) many breeders raise their dogs in unhealthy conditions - there is no way to know for sure what kind of breeder you're working with, and the industry is generally unregulated and dangerous for dogs. As mentioned above, getting a specific breed is no guarantee of temperament. There are limitless dogs out there that need a home.
2) Get a puppy so you can set boundaries and standards early. From very early puppyhood they can learn to sit on command, be taught not to jump up, and be socialized for affection. If you get a dog who spent a lot of time in breeders kennels instead of with people, you're missing socialization time.
3) Where I live most rescue dogs are pit bulls. They have a bad reputation because this breed is often raised to be aggressive. This has nothing inherent to do with the breed and everything to do with how people treat them. Pit bulls tend to be extremely affectionate, loving, loyal nanny dogs. Ours sits in our laps every chance he gets. He snuggles up to strangers if we let him. He stays by my side on the trail. He sleeps in my daughter's bed at night. He has good recall, sits, lies down, shakes, etc on command. He has short hair and doesn't shed much.
When picking a puppy I was advised to choose hte one who is not too crazy but also not too quiet. My daughter picked the pup who gently teetered over and put his muzzle in her hand, then crawled into her lap. His temperament is still like that now that he's full grown.
posted by latkes at 7:39 AM on December 30, 2019 [11 favorites]
Any breed that herds sheep is what you're looking for. They herd children too. It's their secret bonus feature.
posted by sexyrobot at 7:42 AM on December 30, 2019 [8 favorites]
posted by sexyrobot at 7:42 AM on December 30, 2019 [8 favorites]
Rescue groups and shelters often have purebred dogs if that's important to you for whatever reason, but like others have said, mixed breeds tend to be healthier and far less likely to have been raised in cages at a breeders. Any shelter or rescue is going to have some idea as to a dog's temperament since they work with them every day. Plus millions of wonderful dogs need homes; intentional breeding is a huge problem when it comes to pet overpopulation. Also, I second what latke says about pit bulls. I adopted a mostly pit mix from my local shelter and she was the best dog that I ever had: gentle, cuddly, fun, protective (but not aggressive), low-shed, and very quiet.
posted by mezzanayne at 7:50 AM on December 30, 2019 [3 favorites]
posted by mezzanayne at 7:50 AM on December 30, 2019 [3 favorites]
I agree that’s a pit bull or pit mix would be a great fit for you: prefect size, medium energy level, get as a puppy and keep up with training and it will be a great family dog.
A Wheaten Terrier is another breed that fits your size and temperament asks.
posted by scantee at 7:53 AM on December 30, 2019
A Wheaten Terrier is another breed that fits your size and temperament asks.
posted by scantee at 7:53 AM on December 30, 2019
Honestly, if you already have your hands full, don't get a puppy; get an adult dog.
In either case, fencing your yard will make your life significantly easier, because opening the door to let the dog pee is infinitely easier than gearing up for a walk. This can be much more expensive than one would expect, so you may want to begin looking into that.
The quality of training is more important than breed, so you may want to focus your research on that.
posted by metasarah at 8:12 AM on December 30, 2019 [19 favorites]
In either case, fencing your yard will make your life significantly easier, because opening the door to let the dog pee is infinitely easier than gearing up for a walk. This can be much more expensive than one would expect, so you may want to begin looking into that.
The quality of training is more important than breed, so you may want to focus your research on that.
posted by metasarah at 8:12 AM on December 30, 2019 [19 favorites]
Seconding sheep herding breeds. They’re high energy but they stay glued to your kid.
posted by spitbull at 8:31 AM on December 30, 2019 [1 favorite]
posted by spitbull at 8:31 AM on December 30, 2019 [1 favorite]
I would look hard at beagles or potentially other hounds. They're super sweet, affectionate dogs, and while they have a few challenges (hugely food-motivated, most are fairly vocal, they'll follow their noses over everything else) they're really good family dogs. They also don't have that constant need for stimulation and training that herding dogs and other super-smart breeds have (of course, they still need lots of stimulation and exercise, just like, a more normal amount.)
posted by mosst at 8:58 AM on December 30, 2019
posted by mosst at 8:58 AM on December 30, 2019
I may be biased because my beagle growing up was not barky or loud at all, though. I understand that most are.
posted by mosst at 8:59 AM on December 30, 2019
posted by mosst at 8:59 AM on December 30, 2019
I would very strongly encourage you to get a young adult dog and not a puppy. Only once a dog is grown do you really know its personality. The idea that a breed tells you what a dog will be like is, if you think about it for a minute, completely bonkers genetic determinism.
posted by medusa at 9:06 AM on December 30, 2019 [6 favorites]
posted by medusa at 9:06 AM on December 30, 2019 [6 favorites]
If your hands are already full you really don't need a puppy on top of everything else, in my opinion. A puppy is a LOT of work. And you never know for sure how puppies will turn out, I know countless dogs that are the polar opposites of their 'normal' breed temperament.
I agree 100% with the advice about fencing your yard, an unfenced yard adds a huge amount of work and a great deal of extra risk to dog ownership. And I also agree that the quality of training is what you need to focus on.
You're right to focus on the personality rather than looks, but I would definitely look for a young adult dog, shelters often have dogs with a known history of being good with children. These dogs are popular so don't rely on trawling their sites, ask around locally for a good shelter or other organisation that re-homes dogs who are placed in foster homes with children or around children first, for assessment. Get in touch with them and talk to them about what you are looking for.
I think the dog is only half of this issue, the other half is your child. It's not just how the dog is with children, it's also how the child is with dogs that is also extremely important. How does she behave around animals? Is she used to dogs? Does she understand how to be respectful of a dog's space? Getting a dog is a hugely exciting time for a child - it's really important that before a dog arrives, she is very used to them, and that she understands that "jet fuel" level expressions of excitement aren't OK around a newly arrived dog. She may already be used to going for walks with dogs? If not, arrange plenty. And ask around and offer to dog-sit for a few people (always a popular offer) so she's accustomed to them in the house.
Do some basic training with her and a friendly dog, so she understands how to make a dog sit for treats etc.
You need a well trained dog - and it's really difficult with a small child in the house who thinks it's fun to feed the dog treats. The dog will learn really fast that it can grab things from the child and can get pushy quickly.
Surprisingly small children can be great with dogs, and six is plenty old enough for her to enjoy teaching a new dog what to do...but if she doesn't understand how to behave with the dog, its good habits and training can fall apart fast. Arrange to attend training classes, ideally with the child, every week after the dog's arrival. Lots of people take children to training classes, it's great fun for them and very good for the dog, and gives you a ready-made "discussion group" for advice and sharing.
Good luck!!
posted by tardigrade at 9:09 AM on December 30, 2019 [7 favorites]
I agree 100% with the advice about fencing your yard, an unfenced yard adds a huge amount of work and a great deal of extra risk to dog ownership. And I also agree that the quality of training is what you need to focus on.
You're right to focus on the personality rather than looks, but I would definitely look for a young adult dog, shelters often have dogs with a known history of being good with children. These dogs are popular so don't rely on trawling their sites, ask around locally for a good shelter or other organisation that re-homes dogs who are placed in foster homes with children or around children first, for assessment. Get in touch with them and talk to them about what you are looking for.
I think the dog is only half of this issue, the other half is your child. It's not just how the dog is with children, it's also how the child is with dogs that is also extremely important. How does she behave around animals? Is she used to dogs? Does she understand how to be respectful of a dog's space? Getting a dog is a hugely exciting time for a child - it's really important that before a dog arrives, she is very used to them, and that she understands that "jet fuel" level expressions of excitement aren't OK around a newly arrived dog. She may already be used to going for walks with dogs? If not, arrange plenty. And ask around and offer to dog-sit for a few people (always a popular offer) so she's accustomed to them in the house.
Do some basic training with her and a friendly dog, so she understands how to make a dog sit for treats etc.
You need a well trained dog - and it's really difficult with a small child in the house who thinks it's fun to feed the dog treats. The dog will learn really fast that it can grab things from the child and can get pushy quickly.
Surprisingly small children can be great with dogs, and six is plenty old enough for her to enjoy teaching a new dog what to do...but if she doesn't understand how to behave with the dog, its good habits and training can fall apart fast. Arrange to attend training classes, ideally with the child, every week after the dog's arrival. Lots of people take children to training classes, it's great fun for them and very good for the dog, and gives you a ready-made "discussion group" for advice and sharing.
Good luck!!
posted by tardigrade at 9:09 AM on December 30, 2019 [7 favorites]
I suspect that the reason you want a purebred puppy is because you think this will give you utmost control over exactly what kind of dog you end up with, but this isn't really how it works. Adoping a dog who is out of the puppy stage (even at year or two years old) is an even better guarantee that you end up with a healthy, well-adjusted dog. Also, puppies are the cutest things on planet but they are NUTS and a ton of work. They are bitey and crazy and will ruin a bunch of your shit before you finally have its training sorted out. Are you sure you're down for this?
Anyway, a loud and grabby kid is going to have trouble with smaller breeds, they usually just straight up don't tolerate this kind of thing, so I would advise you to look at larger dogs. Good luck! Dogs are awesome but you really have to go into this with some flexibility about what the dog's personality and foibles are going to be like.
posted by cakelite at 9:29 AM on December 30, 2019 [7 favorites]
Anyway, a loud and grabby kid is going to have trouble with smaller breeds, they usually just straight up don't tolerate this kind of thing, so I would advise you to look at larger dogs. Good luck! Dogs are awesome but you really have to go into this with some flexibility about what the dog's personality and foibles are going to be like.
posted by cakelite at 9:29 AM on December 30, 2019 [7 favorites]
I'm echoing all that's been said about getting an adult dog. Puppies are amazing, but they literally don't know ANYTHING about how to be a pet. They have to learn that from you, and you sound quite busy (which is not a judgement, just an observation!). Here is a gross generalization: a puppy, of virtually any breed, is going to be your daughter in dog form. They have boundless energy, they are mischievous, and they require watching and lots of care, training, and guidance. A dog that's a year old or so will have gone through that stage already! Puppies don't have much sense, adult dogs may have some, but you may have to meet a few before you discover the best doggie for your family. If you can specifically search for dogs who are in foster homes rather than shelters, the foster family will be able to give you an idea about the dog's temperament, shedding, energy, et cetera. I also vote for a pittie. They are cuddle bugs and tend to have short hair but just about any dog will shed *some* twice per year. Regular brushing can help with the hair situation.
posted by heathergirl at 9:32 AM on December 30, 2019 [1 favorite]
posted by heathergirl at 9:32 AM on December 30, 2019 [1 favorite]
To fit your requirements, I want to second the recommendations for Portuguese Water Dog (my brother has two, they are so smart and sweet! A female may be slightly larger than you requested, while males likely larger still), Wheaton Terrier (I have met a couple really cool ones), and also poodles and poodle mixes. Lots of size variety in poodles/mixes, too.
I have a rescue Havanese (sorry, FB link-Toki) and want to add them to your list of potentials. They are smart, easily trainable, sweet and full of energy. Approx 15 lbs. As with any new dog, especially with kids involved, training will be key (both the dog and the kid)! (NOTE: We were warned Toki would find his voice and if we didn't get it under control he would use it a lot. We did not get it under control because it doesn't bother us. It is an adorable Woooo-Woooo-Woooo. Your mileage may vary.)
Pit bulls are indeed awesome, but don't have your hair or size requirement. Neither do most retrievers, herding dogs, or beagles (wrong hair).
And if you still prefer a purebred for reasons, consider a breed-specific rescue. These groups often have a variety of ages and will likely be fostered in a home so you will get a lot of good information regarding personality and temperament. Good luck in your search!
posted by Glinn at 9:53 AM on December 30, 2019
I have a rescue Havanese (sorry, FB link-Toki) and want to add them to your list of potentials. They are smart, easily trainable, sweet and full of energy. Approx 15 lbs. As with any new dog, especially with kids involved, training will be key (both the dog and the kid)! (NOTE: We were warned Toki would find his voice and if we didn't get it under control he would use it a lot. We did not get it under control because it doesn't bother us. It is an adorable Woooo-Woooo-Woooo. Your mileage may vary.)
Pit bulls are indeed awesome, but don't have your hair or size requirement. Neither do most retrievers, herding dogs, or beagles (wrong hair).
And if you still prefer a purebred for reasons, consider a breed-specific rescue. These groups often have a variety of ages and will likely be fostered in a home so you will get a lot of good information regarding personality and temperament. Good luck in your search!
posted by Glinn at 9:53 AM on December 30, 2019
Agreed to get an adult dog around 2-4 years old, preferably one that can handle being alone through the 9-5 unless one of you is home full-time. To me that rules out the truly higher energy breeds and dogs that like to be glued to their people unless you want to pay a dog walker for daily midday walks, it's not fair to the dog if you'll only be giving them attention evenings and weekends, better to have a dog that is happy to sleep while alone. You could even try fostering and that way get to experience some different types of dogs and see how you do and how your child reacts, you'll get support from the foster group which would be a big plus and if it's not a good fit it's not permanent.
My son is fairly high energy (was spirited as a toddler but has mellowed as he gets older) and we have a 60 lb mutt rescue (since my son was 6, he's now nearly 9) who is not a perfect dog but is perfect for our family. I sometimes wish he could experience the puppy stages and cuteness but my son is just crazy about him, I find kids are much more forgiving of quirks in pets than adults (as long as the quirks don't involve reactivity to kids or resource guarding). Don't expect your child to take over much if any of the care of the dog at that age, my son feeds the dog when we ask him to, lets him in and out of the yard, and will play treat games with him but that's about it. Growing up we always had a dog and they were mutts of different varieties, they were all great to have around but my mom was home full-time, we tended to have mixed herding dogs, the only con was helping them get the exercise they needed which I was able to do when I was a teenager but we always had a fenced yard for them.
If you can find a good temperament fit I would loosen on the hair and size requirement, get a good roomba and it's not the worst thing in the end of the world to have some shedding to deal with if you have a loveable family member that makes everyone's life better. Fwiw we just sweep as much as we can with our black longhair dog and cat and we don't get hair on our clothes it's just on the floors, carpets are not your friend.
posted by lafemma at 10:09 AM on December 30, 2019 [2 favorites]
My son is fairly high energy (was spirited as a toddler but has mellowed as he gets older) and we have a 60 lb mutt rescue (since my son was 6, he's now nearly 9) who is not a perfect dog but is perfect for our family. I sometimes wish he could experience the puppy stages and cuteness but my son is just crazy about him, I find kids are much more forgiving of quirks in pets than adults (as long as the quirks don't involve reactivity to kids or resource guarding). Don't expect your child to take over much if any of the care of the dog at that age, my son feeds the dog when we ask him to, lets him in and out of the yard, and will play treat games with him but that's about it. Growing up we always had a dog and they were mutts of different varieties, they were all great to have around but my mom was home full-time, we tended to have mixed herding dogs, the only con was helping them get the exercise they needed which I was able to do when I was a teenager but we always had a fenced yard for them.
If you can find a good temperament fit I would loosen on the hair and size requirement, get a good roomba and it's not the worst thing in the end of the world to have some shedding to deal with if you have a loveable family member that makes everyone's life better. Fwiw we just sweep as much as we can with our black longhair dog and cat and we don't get hair on our clothes it's just on the floors, carpets are not your friend.
posted by lafemma at 10:09 AM on December 30, 2019 [2 favorites]
I've got two doodles, Zelda who is 1.5 and Oz who's 4 year old, and both are amazing with high energy children. Love kids, love playing for hours, no aggression, very cuddly, almost no shedding. People purposely bring their kids over to play with them or ask us to bring them when we visit. They are fairly perfect dogs for kids that want to run around and play.
That said they are both very different dogs. Oz barks way more then I'd like at things like noises on the TV and any sound that resembles knocking, Zelda only when you'd expect a dog too (someone at the door, dog barking at her). Oz almost never jumps on anyone, Zelda will try to levitate to lick your face. We've had the Zelda since she was a puppy and got Oz from a shelter back in April. We were surprised to find the only training Oz had was being house broken and to walk on a leash, but just working in the afternoons and mornings for about 10 minutes to teach him the basics worked and he's a fairly well trained dog now, even barking less.
The puppy was adorable but getting her housebroken and trained took one of us working from home full time for a month to take her out hourly and constantly doing little training exercises throughout the day, two puppy classes a week for six months, and we really should have gotten her some one on one time with a professional trainer because we can not stop the jumping (slowing it down though! She handled the holidays very well).
That's why we got an older dog when we were ready for the second, we couldn't work from home for another month again. We'd planned on getting our second doodle either from a local rescue or the adopt a pet website since that way we could check with the foster or previous owner about their temperament. It was pure luck that we got Oz from a shelter and we are so glad we got him, he's a great dog.
posted by lepus at 10:09 AM on December 30, 2019 [1 favorite]
That said they are both very different dogs. Oz barks way more then I'd like at things like noises on the TV and any sound that resembles knocking, Zelda only when you'd expect a dog too (someone at the door, dog barking at her). Oz almost never jumps on anyone, Zelda will try to levitate to lick your face. We've had the Zelda since she was a puppy and got Oz from a shelter back in April. We were surprised to find the only training Oz had was being house broken and to walk on a leash, but just working in the afternoons and mornings for about 10 minutes to teach him the basics worked and he's a fairly well trained dog now, even barking less.
The puppy was adorable but getting her housebroken and trained took one of us working from home full time for a month to take her out hourly and constantly doing little training exercises throughout the day, two puppy classes a week for six months, and we really should have gotten her some one on one time with a professional trainer because we can not stop the jumping (slowing it down though! She handled the holidays very well).
That's why we got an older dog when we were ready for the second, we couldn't work from home for another month again. We'd planned on getting our second doodle either from a local rescue or the adopt a pet website since that way we could check with the foster or previous owner about their temperament. It was pure luck that we got Oz from a shelter and we are so glad we got him, he's a great dog.
posted by lepus at 10:09 AM on December 30, 2019 [1 favorite]
We raised our black lab from a puppy and although rewarding, it was much harder than a human baby! She is well trained in every way, but the bummer for my children is she is NOT cuddly. She is happy to see us, but then just wants her own space. We all agree we will get an older dog in the future so you know their personality ahead of time.
posted by gryphonlover at 10:18 AM on December 30, 2019
posted by gryphonlover at 10:18 AM on December 30, 2019
It's not true that purebred dogs are more likely to have health problems vs mixed breed, and a reputable breeder is going to be raising puppies with a huge leg up from shelter dogs and also is going to be breeding for specific traits in a responsible way, though that's no guarantee of personality. Both genetics and environment matter (that last link has a lot more to say about that). I say this as a shelter volunteer and puppy foster parent. Reputable breeder will socialize puppies during their most impressionable time to accept children, people of all shapes, sizes, and skin tones, with assistive devices and not, household noises, car rides, etc and they can do so because they charge a lot of money. Many folks raising foster puppies for animal rescues try to do the same but I can tell you it's really hard to do unless you dedicate yourself full time to it, which very few of us do.
I urge you not to get a herding dog, in general they need to have a dedicated owner to keep their herding instincts from turning into undesirable behaviors and frustration. They require a lot of exercise and mental stimulation. From what you've described, you aren't going to be able to provide that and that's totally fine, just make sure you don't get a dog who has more space and time needs than you can offer! If you don't have a fenced yard and you have a bored and frustrated dog you will soon have a lost dog. (And more on the unfenced part: are you prepared to go outside with the dog on leash several times a day for potty breaks? For a puppy, are you ready to do that 7-10x a day?)
As other folks advise, I urge you to get an older dog and take your time to find a shelter or rescue who knows the dog's history. Many dogs in the shelters are unknowns and that's fine for folks who have the time and dedication to deal with behavior problems. But it doesn't sound like you have a lot of capacity for that (which is fine! It's just good info to have going in). There are lots of breeds who would do well for you, but energetic children are a challenge. Nonetheless there are plenty of well-socialized dogs waiting for rescue, I would do some googling to take a few quizzes about breeds to decide what's important to you (they'll ask questions such as size? general energy level and intelligence? health? etc) and seek out a local rescue for those breeds you're interested in and talk to them, take their advice on what dogs fit your lifestyle or wait until one that fits is available.
And for what it's worth, just getting a dog walker midday is unlikely to be enough exercise unless you have an older dog or a small breed who would be running most of the walk. Even multiple walks a day really don't provide exercise, though they are invaluable for allowing a dog to fulfill their natural need to sniff the world and can help tire them out mentally! Your daughter could play fetch or play with a flirt pole to give the dog the aerobic exercise they'll need, but if you have an unfenced yard that limits the play you can do at home unless you have a very strongly trained dog who isn't going to run away from the tiny human and/or big humans during super exciting play and end up chasing an animal or getting into a fight with another dog that's walking by.
posted by the thorn bushes have roses at 11:44 AM on December 30, 2019 [3 favorites]
I urge you not to get a herding dog, in general they need to have a dedicated owner to keep their herding instincts from turning into undesirable behaviors and frustration. They require a lot of exercise and mental stimulation. From what you've described, you aren't going to be able to provide that and that's totally fine, just make sure you don't get a dog who has more space and time needs than you can offer! If you don't have a fenced yard and you have a bored and frustrated dog you will soon have a lost dog. (And more on the unfenced part: are you prepared to go outside with the dog on leash several times a day for potty breaks? For a puppy, are you ready to do that 7-10x a day?)
As other folks advise, I urge you to get an older dog and take your time to find a shelter or rescue who knows the dog's history. Many dogs in the shelters are unknowns and that's fine for folks who have the time and dedication to deal with behavior problems. But it doesn't sound like you have a lot of capacity for that (which is fine! It's just good info to have going in). There are lots of breeds who would do well for you, but energetic children are a challenge. Nonetheless there are plenty of well-socialized dogs waiting for rescue, I would do some googling to take a few quizzes about breeds to decide what's important to you (they'll ask questions such as size? general energy level and intelligence? health? etc) and seek out a local rescue for those breeds you're interested in and talk to them, take their advice on what dogs fit your lifestyle or wait until one that fits is available.
And for what it's worth, just getting a dog walker midday is unlikely to be enough exercise unless you have an older dog or a small breed who would be running most of the walk. Even multiple walks a day really don't provide exercise, though they are invaluable for allowing a dog to fulfill their natural need to sniff the world and can help tire them out mentally! Your daughter could play fetch or play with a flirt pole to give the dog the aerobic exercise they'll need, but if you have an unfenced yard that limits the play you can do at home unless you have a very strongly trained dog who isn't going to run away from the tiny human and/or big humans during super exciting play and end up chasing an animal or getting into a fight with another dog that's walking by.
posted by the thorn bushes have roses at 11:44 AM on December 30, 2019 [3 favorites]
As a spirited child I want to put in a word for a dog that does t fit your hair or size requirements but would actually be great — a Bouvier. They are gigantic and make tumbleweeds — yes — but they are smart without being destructive; willing to put up with children; not barky; playful while being happy couch potatoes. They’re what I grew up with and I’d have one again in an instant.
posted by dame at 1:04 PM on December 30, 2019 [1 favorite]
posted by dame at 1:04 PM on December 30, 2019 [1 favorite]
That link upthread saying that purebred dogs aren't more likely than mixed to have health problems doesn't mention health problems. My point was only that purebreds are often bred for standards that yes, cause health problems. I'd avoid that and get a mutt with breed characteristics that will fit your life.
posted by agregoli at 2:28 PM on December 30, 2019 [1 favorite]
posted by agregoli at 2:28 PM on December 30, 2019 [1 favorite]
Oh sorry, I just checked and that was not the right link! This is it. The one I linked has useful information about behavioral differences but the one linked in this comment addresses health and touches on behavior.
posted by the thorn bushes have roses at 2:44 PM on December 30, 2019 [2 favorites]
posted by the thorn bushes have roses at 2:44 PM on December 30, 2019 [2 favorites]
I nth the folks above with pitties and pit mixes; maybe you can find a pocket pit? They’re pit bulls! But smaller! Lots of fun in a smaller package. They’re such sweet dogs and can be so chill in the right environment, and they loooooove people.
A dog I haven’t seen mentioned up thread but I am a fan of (because my furson, obvs) is a larger Boston. My Winston is 30lbs and a BLAST. He loves to run and play and swim and is very social with other people and other dogs. He is not talkative unless he’s at daycare or we're joking in the house and I ask him “who is a sassy dog?!” He’s headstrong, but with a fair amount of training when he was a pup, he has matured (will be 5 in March) into just the most fun and polite dog. He loves kids and puppies and is generally very gentle with them, but he is a strong and sturdy little dog. He loves to train and he loves to snuggle. They are snuffly and gassy though; he’s a purebred dog, so I had some backstory with his lineage and his breeders. The only “purebred” issue we’ve come across is a poultry allergy; they’re finding that a lot of purebred dogs are born with some protein allergies. I’m vigilant about his food and treats and everything else is a-ok. There are some great Boston rescues out there.
Another breed you might want to look at are Bichons. They’re amazing smaller dogs that are smart and really fun, and fairly hardy. The only thing is that they require grooming on a regular basis, so idk what your schedule/finances can absorb. But each one I’ve ever met has had a sparkling personality.
posted by sara is disenchanted at 2:50 PM on December 30, 2019
A dog I haven’t seen mentioned up thread but I am a fan of (because my furson, obvs) is a larger Boston. My Winston is 30lbs and a BLAST. He loves to run and play and swim and is very social with other people and other dogs. He is not talkative unless he’s at daycare or we're joking in the house and I ask him “who is a sassy dog?!” He’s headstrong, but with a fair amount of training when he was a pup, he has matured (will be 5 in March) into just the most fun and polite dog. He loves kids and puppies and is generally very gentle with them, but he is a strong and sturdy little dog. He loves to train and he loves to snuggle. They are snuffly and gassy though; he’s a purebred dog, so I had some backstory with his lineage and his breeders. The only “purebred” issue we’ve come across is a poultry allergy; they’re finding that a lot of purebred dogs are born with some protein allergies. I’m vigilant about his food and treats and everything else is a-ok. There are some great Boston rescues out there.
Another breed you might want to look at are Bichons. They’re amazing smaller dogs that are smart and really fun, and fairly hardy. The only thing is that they require grooming on a regular basis, so idk what your schedule/finances can absorb. But each one I’ve ever met has had a sparkling personality.
posted by sara is disenchanted at 2:50 PM on December 30, 2019
We have a spirited kid, too. We got a puppy last year when he was 5.5 (one of my recent questions was about puppy and kid dynamics).
If I could do it again, I’d investigate an older dog. I’m typing this while our almost 18 month old puppy is sleeping with his head in my lap. He’s turning out to be the best boy, but wow this year has been hard and I’d say 80% of that has been the kid interactions.
We got a Rhodesian Ridgeback so he’s gigantic which adds some complication. But it’s hard enough to train a dog, but doing it with a whirling dervish of a kid is way harder. What has really saved us is finding awesome trainers and dog walkers. We both work very full-time and were utterly overwhelmed at first, but we got through house training and crate training. He still wants to bite and chew stuff... we’ve lost countless remote controls, but the training has made an enormous difference.
So while I don’t have a breed recommendation, I’d highly recommend some training.
posted by jdl at 7:22 PM on December 30, 2019
If I could do it again, I’d investigate an older dog. I’m typing this while our almost 18 month old puppy is sleeping with his head in my lap. He’s turning out to be the best boy, but wow this year has been hard and I’d say 80% of that has been the kid interactions.
We got a Rhodesian Ridgeback so he’s gigantic which adds some complication. But it’s hard enough to train a dog, but doing it with a whirling dervish of a kid is way harder. What has really saved us is finding awesome trainers and dog walkers. We both work very full-time and were utterly overwhelmed at first, but we got through house training and crate training. He still wants to bite and chew stuff... we’ve lost countless remote controls, but the training has made an enormous difference.
So while I don’t have a breed recommendation, I’d highly recommend some training.
posted by jdl at 7:22 PM on December 30, 2019
As a coda to what I wrote above... another part of the reason to get your child really used to dogs is so that you can see how she is with lots of different kinds of dogs. It's good for her, and for the future relationship with the dog of course...but also you'll be able to see what dogs, logistically, work well. EG is she easily overwhelmed by large dogs, is she too much for small dogs, is she grossed out by dogs with beards, is there a specific kind that she really, really loves, etc etc. Also a source: I'm a volunteer and home checker at a breed specific rehoming charity, and these are indeed very good places to contact once you've thought more about the type of dog you're looking for. Dogs will often come directly from the original home, so there is much less upset than for a dog that's been via a shelter. Worth noting that the huge majority of rescue organisations (and also, I think, a lot of reputable breeders) will insist on a fenced garden, especially where there's a family environment and a child to play with. And also they will want to hear that the child is used to dogs...so that's a step to begin working on as soon as possible.
If you decide after all that you are really set on a puppy - Two good links:
http://alkemi.org/choosing_breeder.htm
http://alkemi.org/dog_breeder.htm
These were from very useful discussions here
https://ask.metafilter.com/215841/Why-and-how-do-people-become-dog-breeders#3115269
https://ask.metafilter.com/252932/Help-me-find-the-right-puppies-in-NYC#3674092
I suspect you are not in the UK where we have an excellent annual event called 'Discover Dogs' where you can meet all kinds of dogs and talk to experienced owners....maybe you can find something similar though? Attend some adoption events?
posted by tardigrade at 5:40 AM on December 31, 2019 [1 favorite]
If you decide after all that you are really set on a puppy - Two good links:
http://alkemi.org/choosing_breeder.htm
http://alkemi.org/dog_breeder.htm
These were from very useful discussions here
https://ask.metafilter.com/215841/Why-and-how-do-people-become-dog-breeders#3115269
https://ask.metafilter.com/252932/Help-me-find-the-right-puppies-in-NYC#3674092
I suspect you are not in the UK where we have an excellent annual event called 'Discover Dogs' where you can meet all kinds of dogs and talk to experienced owners....maybe you can find something similar though? Attend some adoption events?
posted by tardigrade at 5:40 AM on December 31, 2019 [1 favorite]
Really surprised that you would want to add a puppy to a household in which you describe both partners as having "their hands full". A puppy is a 21/7 job. A rescue dog whose foster caregiver has energetic kids and can tell you all about the dog's behavior with them is the way to go.
posted by oneirodynia at 10:28 AM on December 31, 2019
posted by oneirodynia at 10:28 AM on December 31, 2019
Cockerpoos are usually friendly dogs. They vary in size and colour.
A word for the pooch; dogs are pack animals and don't really like to be left alone. IMHO.
posted by StephenB at 10:51 AM on December 31, 2019
A word for the pooch; dogs are pack animals and don't really like to be left alone. IMHO.
posted by StephenB at 10:51 AM on December 31, 2019
I'll add to the chorus of don't get a puppy and do get a rescue.
Over the past couple years I've lived with about 100 dogs (I'm a dog sitter) in all parts of the world. I also own this girl who is from a First Nations Reserve in Northern Quebec, and I got her 7 years ago when she was about 2. She's a Husky/GSD/Poodle/Akita mix.
From my anecdotal experience, the mix breed dogs I've been responsible for have been healthier, smarter, and better behaved than the pure breeds. Pure breeds I've looked after: Boxers, Standard Poodle, Goldens, Labradors, Cocker Spaniel, PWD, Giant Griffon, Jack Russel, Rottweiler, Newfoundlander, Aus Cattle Dogs, Bulldogs... etc
I've also owned 2 pit bull crosses. Great dogs!
I've spent almost a year looking after dogs in areas where there are many, many strays (Dominican, Vanuatu, rural Spain) and often prefer the mutt strays to the dog I've been hired to sit. The main reason is that these dogs have been allowed to become dogs (as has my own) without being spoiled by human interaction at a young age. Many of the people I know who adopt strays/rescues insist the dog was better behaved when they first got them than they were after living in their new home.
A dog is a mirror of the owner. Without exception ever asshole dog I've ever met was owned by an asshole. Whether you like it or not or see it or not, a dog will reflect your true personality -- this is to say that whatever dog you end up choosing will be more influenced by how you let it live than how it lived before you. There are of course exceptions to this when you factor in abused animals or dogs who were living in homes but were neglected. But if you're talking well-socialized dogs, they're gonna change when you get them.
If you live in an area within a few hundred miles of a native reserve, look into rescuing from one of them. There will probably be an organization that goes there 4 times a year and grabs dogs (there is an unlimited supply because none of the dogs are fixed and very few of them have "owners"). They're commonly known as Reserve Dogs. There are also numerous rescues who bring in dogs from Greece, Mexico, the Dominican (or other islands) looking for homes.
One of my favorite rescues is in Spain: Galgos Del Sol. They rescue mostly adult Galgos (a Spanish sighthound similar to a Greyhound) and Podencos (Portugese sighthounds) or puppies of either breed. They do occasionally ship dogs to America but they're generally larger than the 30 pounds you're looking for.
Good luck!
posted by dobbs at 6:21 PM on December 31, 2019 [1 favorite]
Over the past couple years I've lived with about 100 dogs (I'm a dog sitter) in all parts of the world. I also own this girl who is from a First Nations Reserve in Northern Quebec, and I got her 7 years ago when she was about 2. She's a Husky/GSD/Poodle/Akita mix.
From my anecdotal experience, the mix breed dogs I've been responsible for have been healthier, smarter, and better behaved than the pure breeds. Pure breeds I've looked after: Boxers, Standard Poodle, Goldens, Labradors, Cocker Spaniel, PWD, Giant Griffon, Jack Russel, Rottweiler, Newfoundlander, Aus Cattle Dogs, Bulldogs... etc
I've also owned 2 pit bull crosses. Great dogs!
I've spent almost a year looking after dogs in areas where there are many, many strays (Dominican, Vanuatu, rural Spain) and often prefer the mutt strays to the dog I've been hired to sit. The main reason is that these dogs have been allowed to become dogs (as has my own) without being spoiled by human interaction at a young age. Many of the people I know who adopt strays/rescues insist the dog was better behaved when they first got them than they were after living in their new home.
A dog is a mirror of the owner. Without exception ever asshole dog I've ever met was owned by an asshole. Whether you like it or not or see it or not, a dog will reflect your true personality -- this is to say that whatever dog you end up choosing will be more influenced by how you let it live than how it lived before you. There are of course exceptions to this when you factor in abused animals or dogs who were living in homes but were neglected. But if you're talking well-socialized dogs, they're gonna change when you get them.
If you live in an area within a few hundred miles of a native reserve, look into rescuing from one of them. There will probably be an organization that goes there 4 times a year and grabs dogs (there is an unlimited supply because none of the dogs are fixed and very few of them have "owners"). They're commonly known as Reserve Dogs. There are also numerous rescues who bring in dogs from Greece, Mexico, the Dominican (or other islands) looking for homes.
One of my favorite rescues is in Spain: Galgos Del Sol. They rescue mostly adult Galgos (a Spanish sighthound similar to a Greyhound) and Podencos (Portugese sighthounds) or puppies of either breed. They do occasionally ship dogs to America but they're generally larger than the 30 pounds you're looking for.
Good luck!
posted by dobbs at 6:21 PM on December 31, 2019 [1 favorite]
This thread is closed to new comments.
These two things are at odds. A spirited dog is one that wants to play a lot, in my mind. A chill dog, well, is also a well trained dog. Do you have time to train a puppy to grow up to be a good dog? Can your kid assist with this?
Also, I would go to a local shelter and check it out. They often have quizzes and people to help you figure what breeds would be a good fit for your circumstances. A dog from a breeder could have a lot of health problems. No need to get a purebred anything - a mix is probably going to have a better temperament anyway.
posted by agregoli at 7:02 AM on December 30, 2019 [20 favorites]