Intelligent Anime For Aduts?
February 25, 2006 12:54 PM Subscribe
I am looking for some anime that is designed for an adult to watch. I am not talking about adult content such as nudity, cursing and extreme violence, but rather the intelligence of the anime. Violence, nudity, and cursing is fine one way or the other. Are there any anime out there that talk about philosophy, or politics, etc? The closest movie I can give as an example isn't actually an anime, although it is animated: Waking Life
I'm not loking for any specific anime, so any suggestions are great.
I'm not loking for any specific anime, so any suggestions are great.
Grave of the Fireflies.
posted by Lockeownzj00 at 1:07 PM on February 25, 2006
posted by Lockeownzj00 at 1:07 PM on February 25, 2006
Trigun might interest you. Interesting take on perception, rumor, the nature of reality, loss, redemption, philosophy, and (although a little warped on this count) religion.
There is violence (mostly gunfights). Sex is implied, but not shown.
posted by ilsa at 1:07 PM on February 25, 2006
There is violence (mostly gunfights). Sex is implied, but not shown.
posted by ilsa at 1:07 PM on February 25, 2006
An existential action anime? That's what Ghost In The Shell is.
posted by furtive at 1:08 PM on February 25, 2006
posted by furtive at 1:08 PM on February 25, 2006
I would abstain from mentioning series like Trigun or Cowboy Bebop, for example. While I love them to death, they pale in comparison to Waking Life, in regards to depth.
Trigun's a little overly-silly. It has a nice story, but t'ain't that deep. Cowboy Bebop, however, I might actually suggest. It's slick, jazzy, and just cool.
posted by Lockeownzj00 at 1:11 PM on February 25, 2006
Trigun's a little overly-silly. It has a nice story, but t'ain't that deep. Cowboy Bebop, however, I might actually suggest. It's slick, jazzy, and just cool.
posted by Lockeownzj00 at 1:11 PM on February 25, 2006
I completely overlooked the works of Hayao Miyazaki. Most of his stuff occupies a middle ground where yes, you can watch it with older children, but there is another layer or three of understanding for the grown-ups. Didn't realize until now that he had anything to do with Lupin the Third which is hilarious, adult oriented, and totally lacking in philosophical content.
posted by ilsa at 1:14 PM on February 25, 2006
posted by ilsa at 1:14 PM on February 25, 2006
While you're at it, check out the TV series based on GiTS, Ghost in The Shell: Stand Alone Complex and Stand Alone Complex 2nd Gig. Political intrigue, ruminations on what it means to be human in a cyborg-driven world, gunfighting, explosions.
posted by Danelope at 1:14 PM on February 25, 2006
posted by Danelope at 1:14 PM on February 25, 2006
Eh, I found Bebop a little lacking in comparison to, say Outlaw Star. I have, however, been enjoying Samauri Champloo. (I still want to write Champroo, there is no L in Japanese.)
posted by ilsa at 1:19 PM on February 25, 2006 [1 favorite]
posted by ilsa at 1:19 PM on February 25, 2006 [1 favorite]
Miyazaki says his films are "for children, or for people who used to be children", though Princess Mononoke is an exception - it's clearly not a kids movie (no sex, but violence and complexity).
posted by aubilenon at 1:23 PM on February 25, 2006
posted by aubilenon at 1:23 PM on February 25, 2006
I'd recommend the excellent Neon Genesis Evangelion. The first few episodes seem like your standard "young-teenagers-have-to-save-the-world-using-giant-fighting-robots" plot, but it quickly gets much weirder/deeper/philosophical from there. You've really got to see both the series and the movie "End of Evangelion"
I'll second FLCL, which is really more style than substance I think, but man has it got style.
posted by shinji_ikari at 1:34 PM on February 25, 2006
I'll second FLCL, which is really more style than substance I think, but man has it got style.
posted by shinji_ikari at 1:34 PM on February 25, 2006
Best answer: Also by Mamoru Oshii (the writer/director of Ghost in the Shell): Angel's Egg
As near as I can describe it, it's a Shinto meditation on Judeo-Christian mythology. There is very little dialog. By very little, I mean that the lead character says, "Who are you?" about five minutes into the movie, and there is no more dialog for at least another forty five minutes. There is a long monologue in the middle, and then no further dialog for the remainder of the film.
It is an absolutely gorgeous film, with much to think about and discuss.
posted by Lokheed at 1:43 PM on February 25, 2006 [1 favorite]
As near as I can describe it, it's a Shinto meditation on Judeo-Christian mythology. There is very little dialog. By very little, I mean that the lead character says, "Who are you?" about five minutes into the movie, and there is no more dialog for at least another forty five minutes. There is a long monologue in the middle, and then no further dialog for the remainder of the film.
It is an absolutely gorgeous film, with much to think about and discuss.
posted by Lokheed at 1:43 PM on February 25, 2006 [1 favorite]
Ghost in the Shell 2 and Wings of Honneamise come to mind as anime with adult characters and plots. GitS 2 actually reminds me quite a bit of Waking Life.
Stuff like Evangelion, FLCL and Lain are great (and the last two fit in there as post-Evangelion anime) and I'll add Haibane Renmei (sort of like an anime of Haruki Murakami's End of the World), but they're really about teenagers but done in a sophisticated manner.
posted by bobo123 at 1:49 PM on February 25, 2006
Stuff like Evangelion, FLCL and Lain are great (and the last two fit in there as post-Evangelion anime) and I'll add Haibane Renmei (sort of like an anime of Haruki Murakami's End of the World), but they're really about teenagers but done in a sophisticated manner.
posted by bobo123 at 1:49 PM on February 25, 2006
Lupin the Third which is hilarious, adult oriented, and totally lacking in philosophical content.
I disagree! They're searching for a "treasure" which turns out to be ... not what you think when you hear the word "treasure" anyway.
posted by AmbroseChapel at 1:57 PM on February 25, 2006
I disagree! They're searching for a "treasure" which turns out to be ... not what you think when you hear the word "treasure" anyway.
posted by AmbroseChapel at 1:57 PM on February 25, 2006
Seconding Cowboy Bebop. It's my favourite anime by far, and has a very high rewatchability quality for me. It's awesome, it has all the ingredients: humour, great music, interesting characters, good voice actors, serious subject matter on occasion, some surprisingly complex ideas...etc. Plus it looks very cool. You might have to give it a couple of episodes before you really get into it, but Cowboy Bebop (and Ghost in the Shell, which I also love) was the first anime I saw which actually made me understand what other people see in anime. I'm still not a fan of the genre in general, but I am willing to give anime I haven't seen before a chance simply because of these two things.
posted by biscotti at 2:01 PM on February 25, 2006
posted by biscotti at 2:01 PM on February 25, 2006
Best answer: It's important to remember that the vast majority of anime aren't made for adults, but for children, teenagers, and/or geeks. When anime wasn't as popular, it was considered very important to mark its territory to emphasize that Akira and Evangelion were *not* cartoons for children; that's true as far as it goes, but they're more for 14-year olds in a culture that's permissive about media sex and violence than for adults.
Night on the Galactic Railroad is a rather old movie based on a children's book by Kenji Miyazawa. Quiet, meditative, philosophical.
One of my manga criticism books remarks, "Theories about Evangelion are like assholes; everyone's got one." People I know are split about 50/50 about whether Evangelion is soooo deep and meaningful or mostly just BS with a whole lot of cool symbolic stuff, but it's worth seeing at least some of it.
Gasaraki is a poor man's Evangelion, IMO, but it's got some interesting political stuff too.
Perfect Blue is interesting and mind-boggling, with some good stuff to say about celebrity, image, mass media, the division between perception and reality.
Miyazaki movies are very, very good. Ultimately they're children's movies, but in the manner of the best children's literature that is just as good no matter how old you get (not in the manner of a Disney movie that adds jokes for adults so that they enjoy it too). I'd start with Spirited Away, Nausicaa of the Valley of Wind, and Princess Mononoke, and then watch all of the rest of them.
posted by Jeanne at 2:07 PM on February 25, 2006
Night on the Galactic Railroad is a rather old movie based on a children's book by Kenji Miyazawa. Quiet, meditative, philosophical.
One of my manga criticism books remarks, "Theories about Evangelion are like assholes; everyone's got one." People I know are split about 50/50 about whether Evangelion is soooo deep and meaningful or mostly just BS with a whole lot of cool symbolic stuff, but it's worth seeing at least some of it.
Gasaraki is a poor man's Evangelion, IMO, but it's got some interesting political stuff too.
Perfect Blue is interesting and mind-boggling, with some good stuff to say about celebrity, image, mass media, the division between perception and reality.
Miyazaki movies are very, very good. Ultimately they're children's movies, but in the manner of the best children's literature that is just as good no matter how old you get (not in the manner of a Disney movie that adds jokes for adults so that they enjoy it too). I'd start with Spirited Away, Nausicaa of the Valley of Wind, and Princess Mononoke, and then watch all of the rest of them.
posted by Jeanne at 2:07 PM on February 25, 2006
forgot to mention, although I've not seen them, I've heard great things about stuff by satoshi kon (perfect blue, millenium actress, paranoia agent).
posted by juv3nal at 2:09 PM on February 25, 2006
posted by juv3nal at 2:09 PM on February 25, 2006
Another vote for Princess Mononoke. Of all of Miyazaki's films, it is by far the one most directly aimed at an adult audience.
Nausicaa comes in second, but it lacks a lot of the moral complexity of Mononoke.
posted by tkolar at 2:16 PM on February 25, 2006
Nausicaa comes in second, but it lacks a lot of the moral complexity of Mononoke.
posted by tkolar at 2:16 PM on February 25, 2006
I found Perfect Blue to be slow, and Millennium Actress to be so boring I turned it off and haven't even thought about it in the two years since until now.
Lain's a good rec, and anything Miyazaki.
Oh, and Rintaro's Metropolis.
posted by mkultra at 2:19 PM on February 25, 2006
Lain's a good rec, and anything Miyazaki.
Oh, and Rintaro's Metropolis.
posted by mkultra at 2:19 PM on February 25, 2006
Tokyo Godfathers
It's is an amazing movie. It's by Satoshi Kon, the guy behind Perfect Blue and Millennium Actress - however, Tokyo Godfathers is way above both of those films.
It's one of the animated movies everyone should see, along with Grave of the Fireflies and Miyazaki's work.
posted by Camel of Space at 2:19 PM on February 25, 2006
It's is an amazing movie. It's by Satoshi Kon, the guy behind Perfect Blue and Millennium Actress - however, Tokyo Godfathers is way above both of those films.
It's one of the animated movies everyone should see, along with Grave of the Fireflies and Miyazaki's work.
posted by Camel of Space at 2:19 PM on February 25, 2006
Maybe Serial Experiments Lain, which is a kind of inside-out version of "The Matrix." Slowly paced, though.
posted by kindall at 2:23 PM on February 25, 2006
posted by kindall at 2:23 PM on February 25, 2006
Ghost in the Shell has two movies, plus a TV series with at least two seasons: Ghost in the Shell: Stand Alone Complex and Ghost in the Shell: Stand Alone Complex 2nd Gig. The TV series is separate from the movie, and much better.
All of Masamune Shirow's work is great. Other works of his that have been animated are Dominion Tank Police and Appleseed.
When it comes to stuff that isn't Shirow's, I've been rather enjoying Read or Die. I remember I'll Arrest Youu as being good too.
Note that Anime in Japan isn't even nearly just for kids, it's just that the western world mostly ships in the kids stuff, and dumbs down the adult stuff. Just download a bunch of episode 1s of assorted fan subs and you'll soon get a feal for it all.
posted by krisjohn at 2:23 PM on February 25, 2006
All of Masamune Shirow's work is great. Other works of his that have been animated are Dominion Tank Police and Appleseed.
When it comes to stuff that isn't Shirow's, I've been rather enjoying Read or Die. I remember I'll Arrest Youu as being good too.
Note that Anime in Japan isn't even nearly just for kids, it's just that the western world mostly ships in the kids stuff, and dumbs down the adult stuff. Just download a bunch of episode 1s of assorted fan subs and you'll soon get a feal for it all.
posted by krisjohn at 2:23 PM on February 25, 2006
Cowboy Bebop and Neon Genesis Evangelion are incomparable for philosophy/theology anime. Neon Genesis Evangelion is heavy on the theology (but you have to watch the entire run, or lots of the prospective commentary will be lost on you). Cowboy Bebop is for the existentialist in us all.
posted by Yeomans at 2:26 PM on February 25, 2006
posted by Yeomans at 2:26 PM on February 25, 2006
Best answer: JokingClown, I'm looking for the same thing, I think it is pretty rare...
Miyazaki, of course, Grave of the Fireflies is astonishing! I never finished Lain for reasons unrelated to it's quality, the first half was fantastic. I found the Patlabor movies quite sophisticated. In fact I liked them a lot more than Ghost in the Shell (by the same director), but I should probably give the later a second chance. Akira seems to be the first listed when this subject comes up, for some reason I've never been able to stay awake through the whole thing :P
Trigun is just another Anime series, as far as I can see. Nothing wrong with it, but I don't think it is what your looking for. I also have doubts about Evangelion, although the memory is vague enough that I'm not too sure.
My anime experience is certainly limited, but I'm just not interested in the childish stuff. I bet there are lots of people who would really appreciate a well populated list here.
posted by Chuckles at 2:44 PM on February 25, 2006
Miyazaki, of course, Grave of the Fireflies is astonishing! I never finished Lain for reasons unrelated to it's quality, the first half was fantastic. I found the Patlabor movies quite sophisticated. In fact I liked them a lot more than Ghost in the Shell (by the same director), but I should probably give the later a second chance. Akira seems to be the first listed when this subject comes up, for some reason I've never been able to stay awake through the whole thing :P
Trigun is just another Anime series, as far as I can see. Nothing wrong with it, but I don't think it is what your looking for. I also have doubts about Evangelion, although the memory is vague enough that I'm not too sure.
My anime experience is certainly limited, but I'm just not interested in the childish stuff. I bet there are lots of people who would really appreciate a well populated list here.
posted by Chuckles at 2:44 PM on February 25, 2006
I'm in for anything Miyazaki. Check out "Porco Rosso" if you can find it. Its somewhat less for kid-oriented than others like "Castle In the Sky" or "Kiki's Delivery Service", yet still very whimsical. Not that there's anything wrong with those either. Kiki was my intro to Miyazaki and I've never stopped enjoying it.
Also a vote here for "Grave of the Fireflies". Very haunting.
posted by hwestiii at 2:44 PM on February 25, 2006
Also a vote here for "Grave of the Fireflies". Very haunting.
posted by hwestiii at 2:44 PM on February 25, 2006
Oh ya... Everyone so far seems to be talking existentialism, I think the question is much more broad than that (although anime might not be).
posted by Chuckles at 2:53 PM on February 25, 2006
posted by Chuckles at 2:53 PM on February 25, 2006
Best answer: Go is rather intellectual I suppose, and while Hikaru No Go is aimed at teens (I think...), every person I've known to watch it was an adult.
posted by phrontist at 3:04 PM on February 25, 2006
posted by phrontist at 3:04 PM on February 25, 2006
The work of Leiji Matsumoto? Can't claim to be an expert on his work as it's near impossible to get anything of his here in the UK, but I vaguely remember loving one of his films called Queen Millenia when I was a child (still remember the theme tune!). I've been trying to track down a copy, which is impossible in the UK, but I did manage to find a book of comics from his Galaxy Express 999 series, and was shocked by just how intensely sad, philosophical, and plain lonely it was. Still trying to find more of his work myself.
Also agree with Grave of the Fireflies, possibly the bleakest thing ever, and Perfect Blue. Really love Kiki's Delivery Service, but I guess that's not very adult as such.
posted by questionmark at 3:04 PM on February 25, 2006
Also agree with Grave of the Fireflies, possibly the bleakest thing ever, and Perfect Blue. Really love Kiki's Delivery Service, but I guess that's not very adult as such.
posted by questionmark at 3:04 PM on February 25, 2006
Second Tokyo Godfathers as Kon's best work, though I'd save watching it for Christmastime.
Although it's not an anime, Tetsuo: The Iron Man is done in a very anime-like style, and is one of the more disturbing and fascinating movies I've ever seen.
posted by Espy Gillespie at 3:31 PM on February 25, 2006
Although it's not an anime, Tetsuo: The Iron Man is done in a very anime-like style, and is one of the more disturbing and fascinating movies I've ever seen.
posted by Espy Gillespie at 3:31 PM on February 25, 2006
I've become a big fan of Full Metal Alchemist and would recommend it, though I don't know if my enjoyment of it might be clouding my perception a bit- it's definitely much more in the vein of things like Trigun than Grave of the Fireflies, and it was aimed more at teenagers than adults in Japan, but it has no shortage of philosophical and political content.
This post gives a much better summary of it than I could. It doesn't touch on the political content so much, but without spoiling anything, suffice it to say that the conflict between a nation that's sort of an analogue for Europe/the West(where the show is set) and another that's kind of a Middle-Eastern analogue is a very important part of the plot.
It's interesting to me how the same few names come up(deservedly so) every time the subject of anime comes up among non-anime fans: Grave of the Fireflies, Cowboy Bebop, Ghost in the Shell, Evangelion, Akira, Miyazaki's work. I feel Full Metal Alchemist deserves to break out of the anime ghetto in the way that those have, but as I said, I may not be looking at it with unbiased eyes. I'd recommend trying it and seeing what you think, anyway...
posted by a louis wain cat at 3:39 PM on February 25, 2006
This post gives a much better summary of it than I could. It doesn't touch on the political content so much, but without spoiling anything, suffice it to say that the conflict between a nation that's sort of an analogue for Europe/the West(where the show is set) and another that's kind of a Middle-Eastern analogue is a very important part of the plot.
It's interesting to me how the same few names come up(deservedly so) every time the subject of anime comes up among non-anime fans: Grave of the Fireflies, Cowboy Bebop, Ghost in the Shell, Evangelion, Akira, Miyazaki's work. I feel Full Metal Alchemist deserves to break out of the anime ghetto in the way that those have, but as I said, I may not be looking at it with unbiased eyes. I'd recommend trying it and seeing what you think, anyway...
posted by a louis wain cat at 3:39 PM on February 25, 2006
Paranoia Agent was a fun mind-trip; I don't think it's got the philosophical stuff you seek, though. As much as I personally do not care for Ghost in the Shell, I'd say that is a solid recommendation for you, and you should check it out.
posted by jenovus at 3:51 PM on February 25, 2006
posted by jenovus at 3:51 PM on February 25, 2006
And Cowboy Bebop is of course a perennial favorite.
posted by jenovus at 3:53 PM on February 25, 2006
posted by jenovus at 3:53 PM on February 25, 2006
Vampire Hunter D: Bloodlust, good Vampire/Cowboy flick.
posted by signal at 4:26 PM on February 25, 2006
posted by signal at 4:26 PM on February 25, 2006
Firsting, Seconding, or whatevering these:
Patlabor (1 and 2)
Akira
Anything by Miyazaki
Cowboy Bebop
Tokyo Godfathers
Escaflowne
posted by sluggo at 4:28 PM on February 25, 2006
Patlabor (1 and 2)
Akira
Anything by Miyazaki
Cowboy Bebop
Tokyo Godfathers
Escaflowne
posted by sluggo at 4:28 PM on February 25, 2006
I'll second Camel of Space with another Satoshi Kon recommendation: Paranoia Agent, a 13-episode series about how delusional people cope with life, although a much better review is here.
I'd also agree with the Full Metal Alchemist push, because although it has grown in popularity with teenagers since being aired on tv, the story is not very childish in nature and can be both thoughtful and moving.
I enjoyed the environmental debate of Arjuna, but many people have told me they think it's too obvious or heavyhanded in it's preachiness about saving the planet. However, the animation is beyond beautiful and if you can see past the "magical girl" basis, it can be very interesting.
If you can stand to watch Grave of the Fireflies twice, the NHK network has just released a fairly good live-action version of it last fall that I believe you can find for download on the internet now.
posted by muscatlove at 4:38 PM on February 25, 2006
I'd also agree with the Full Metal Alchemist push, because although it has grown in popularity with teenagers since being aired on tv, the story is not very childish in nature and can be both thoughtful and moving.
I enjoyed the environmental debate of Arjuna, but many people have told me they think it's too obvious or heavyhanded in it's preachiness about saving the planet. However, the animation is beyond beautiful and if you can see past the "magical girl" basis, it can be very interesting.
If you can stand to watch Grave of the Fireflies twice, the NHK network has just released a fairly good live-action version of it last fall that I believe you can find for download on the internet now.
posted by muscatlove at 4:38 PM on February 25, 2006
Surprised that no one has mentioned Makoto Shinkai's "Voices of a Distant Star" or "The Place Promised in Our Early Days".
Also second the votes for Millenium Actress, Perfect Blue, Evangelion and Serial Experiment Lain.
posted by willmize at 4:41 PM on February 25, 2006
Also second the votes for Millenium Actress, Perfect Blue, Evangelion and Serial Experiment Lain.
posted by willmize at 4:41 PM on February 25, 2006
Dang! I forgot "Patlabor WXIII: The Movie" my favorite of the Patlabor movies.
posted by willmize at 4:43 PM on February 25, 2006
posted by willmize at 4:43 PM on February 25, 2006
I've never seen Waking Life, so maybe I shouldn't be posting, but anyway. Since everyone here seems to have already mentioned the biggies, I'll recommend a short film called AtamaYama (Mt. Head. See filmography).
a louis wain cat: I like Full Metal Alchemist, too! But the manga version and not the animation. While there are the truly hardcore anime otaku (anime geeks) here in Japan, too, I think in general it's much more acceptable for an adult to be "into" anime or manga (comic books) than it is in the States. Though I have to admit I read a lot more manga and drag my son along to see the anime films that I actually want to see (like Steamboy, for example, and Howl's Moving Castle, both of which I DON'T recommend) than any of my acquaintances my age (except for my husband) so maybe I'm just a mild otaku in denial. /derail
posted by misozaki at 4:58 PM on February 25, 2006
a louis wain cat: I like Full Metal Alchemist, too! But the manga version and not the animation. While there are the truly hardcore anime otaku (anime geeks) here in Japan, too, I think in general it's much more acceptable for an adult to be "into" anime or manga (comic books) than it is in the States. Though I have to admit I read a lot more manga and drag my son along to see the anime films that I actually want to see (like Steamboy, for example, and Howl's Moving Castle, both of which I DON'T recommend) than any of my acquaintances my age (except for my husband) so maybe I'm just a mild otaku in denial. /derail
posted by misozaki at 4:58 PM on February 25, 2006
Seconding Tokyo Godfathers--I completely forgot about it. It's very rewarding. A solid plot with a pinch of humor, but mostly it poses some ethical dilemmas to the viewer.
I did manage to find a book of comics from his Galaxy Express 999 series, and was shocked by just how intensely sad, philosophical, and plain lonely it was. Still trying to find more of his work myself.
I've seen some of the original, 70s-era episodes, plus many of the modern OAV episodes...and while it doesn't delve nearly as deep as it could or it should, it's definitely a nice taste of (mild--it is a tad whimsical) despair in sci-fi.
it was aimed more at teenagers than adults in Japan, but it has no shortage of philosophical and political content.
I'm a big fan of FMA as well, although I thought it was a bit too silly at times. Still, I wonder--without fully answering this question to myself, I propose the following: series like FMA which are more 'down-to-earth' and easy to understand for 'most people' which manage to make critical points on parts of life (horrors of war, etc) are more effective than intelligent classics which are far too erudite to understand.
Me, I think in the end, I prefer the 'higher-up' form of media, but truly, to send effective messages, we need the FMAs, the Triguns (love and peace!), no?
What pisses me off about FMA, though, is the god-damned hack job that the dub is. There's a certain point where you're no longer taking artistic liberties and you are officially changing the art.
posted by Lockeownzj00 at 5:03 PM on February 25, 2006
I did manage to find a book of comics from his Galaxy Express 999 series, and was shocked by just how intensely sad, philosophical, and plain lonely it was. Still trying to find more of his work myself.
I've seen some of the original, 70s-era episodes, plus many of the modern OAV episodes...and while it doesn't delve nearly as deep as it could or it should, it's definitely a nice taste of (mild--it is a tad whimsical) despair in sci-fi.
it was aimed more at teenagers than adults in Japan, but it has no shortage of philosophical and political content.
I'm a big fan of FMA as well, although I thought it was a bit too silly at times. Still, I wonder--without fully answering this question to myself, I propose the following: series like FMA which are more 'down-to-earth' and easy to understand for 'most people' which manage to make critical points on parts of life (horrors of war, etc) are more effective than intelligent classics which are far too erudite to understand.
Me, I think in the end, I prefer the 'higher-up' form of media, but truly, to send effective messages, we need the FMAs, the Triguns (love and peace!), no?
What pisses me off about FMA, though, is the god-damned hack job that the dub is. There's a certain point where you're no longer taking artistic liberties and you are officially changing the art.
posted by Lockeownzj00 at 5:03 PM on February 25, 2006
Oh, and I think Jin-Roh is a fine example of an animated movie made for adults. And seconding Voices of a Distant Star.
posted by misozaki at 5:03 PM on February 25, 2006
posted by misozaki at 5:03 PM on February 25, 2006
Since you have so many suggestions here, I'll try to help cut them down by saying that I detested Ghost in the Shell and Grave of the Fireflies, though for very different reasons. If you want to watch stationary figures sit around moving only their lips to discuss the robot/human boundary at a pre-1950s science fiction level, then by all means watch Ghost in the Shell. Perfect Blue was described above as slow, but it did so much more for me than Ghost in the Shell.
Trigun is indeed extremely silly for a great many episodes which only adds to its poignancy when we really begin to delve into the character.
posted by Aknaton at 5:13 PM on February 25, 2006
Trigun is indeed extremely silly for a great many episodes which only adds to its poignancy when we really begin to delve into the character.
posted by Aknaton at 5:13 PM on February 25, 2006
Fist of the North Star, Ninja Scroll, Ninja Scroll 2, Akira, Vampire Hunter D, are just a few of my favorites. Watch all of them, it will do ur body good.
posted by deeman at 5:31 PM on February 25, 2006
posted by deeman at 5:31 PM on February 25, 2006
I didn't think of it in my first post, but another possibility is Big O, though I'm not sure it's quite what you're looking for- it's basically kind of like Batman: The Animated Series with mecha. The reason I'd suggest it as an answer to this question at all is that it takes a very surreal, philosophical turn at the end.
However, there's a fair amount of debate about said ending, and whether it actually meant anything, or whether it was just some random deep-seeming imagery they threw together because they couldn't figure out how to end it. I think I'm somewhat more in the second camp, but I could be wrong and I thought I'd throw it out there. It's a pretty visually striking show, anyway.
Misozaki: yeah, I'm going to check out the FMA manga as soon as the show is done(I've been watching the Adult Swim broadcast). A lot of people seem to prefer it, I've noticed, though I have to say the few things I've heard about it actually make the anime sound like the more sophisticated version of the two- some characters that are straight up baddies in the manga are much more nuanced in the anime, and so forth. That impression is based on little snippets I've heard here and there, though, and is probably totally wrong...
Lockeownzj00: How is the FMA dub a hack job? The stuff I've heard indicates that it's pretty faithful- that other than a couple mistranslated lines and some minor censorship of the more gory moments for American TV broadcast, that it's stuck to the original quite closely. That said, I haven't actually looked up much stuff about it online for fear of spoilers... (so if you're talking about something that happens in the last few episodes, maybe ROT-13 it or something.)
posted by a louis wain cat at 5:36 PM on February 25, 2006
However, there's a fair amount of debate about said ending, and whether it actually meant anything, or whether it was just some random deep-seeming imagery they threw together because they couldn't figure out how to end it. I think I'm somewhat more in the second camp, but I could be wrong and I thought I'd throw it out there. It's a pretty visually striking show, anyway.
Misozaki: yeah, I'm going to check out the FMA manga as soon as the show is done(I've been watching the Adult Swim broadcast). A lot of people seem to prefer it, I've noticed, though I have to say the few things I've heard about it actually make the anime sound like the more sophisticated version of the two- some characters that are straight up baddies in the manga are much more nuanced in the anime, and so forth. That impression is based on little snippets I've heard here and there, though, and is probably totally wrong...
Lockeownzj00: How is the FMA dub a hack job? The stuff I've heard indicates that it's pretty faithful- that other than a couple mistranslated lines and some minor censorship of the more gory moments for American TV broadcast, that it's stuck to the original quite closely. That said, I haven't actually looked up much stuff about it online for fear of spoilers... (so if you're talking about something that happens in the last few episodes, maybe ROT-13 it or something.)
posted by a louis wain cat at 5:36 PM on February 25, 2006
I'd avoid things like Full Metal Alchemist, they're too much money-maker anime, short on artistic quality and long on episodes. For more Adult-appealing anime as the OP requested I'd look to Ghost in the Shell: Stand Anone Complex. Serious throughout and without the silly Anime clichés that can grate on you. Cowboy Bebop and Trigun are good choices too, but have more silly moments. I'd recommend Gungrave instead, it features an excellent storyline that's all serious.
Evangelion is okay, but I'm one of the ones that thinks it's just BS rather than deep philosophy. Haibane Renmei is good too, in terms of interesting character interaction and perhaps psychology.
posted by Mr.Encyclopedia at 5:37 PM on February 25, 2006
Evangelion is okay, but I'm one of the ones that thinks it's just BS rather than deep philosophy. Haibane Renmei is good too, in terms of interesting character interaction and perhaps psychology.
posted by Mr.Encyclopedia at 5:37 PM on February 25, 2006
Now and Then, Here and There: an accidental time traveler struggles to survive in an insane future.
Jin-Roh: political intrigue in a grim alternate history.
posted by SPrintF at 5:49 PM on February 25, 2006
Jin-Roh: political intrigue in a grim alternate history.
posted by SPrintF at 5:49 PM on February 25, 2006
I'll second the recommendation for Gungrave. It has a very well-thought-out storyline and is quite suprising at times. I'd give Texhnolyze a try too. It's fairly cerebral, as far as animes go. Also consider Perfect Blue and the Guyver series. Come to think of it... out of all the animes I've seen, Perfect Blue probably comes closest to matching what you're asking for. It deals with fame and obsession in a very compelling way.
Ninja Scroll is great. Bar none, the best anime move I've ever seen, and I'm fairly picky when it comes to anime (I enjoy it but I can't watch it for hours on end like some peeople I know). If you haven't seen it, you owe it to yourself to watch it immediately.
posted by kryptondog at 7:36 PM on February 25, 2006
Ninja Scroll is great. Bar none, the best anime move I've ever seen, and I'm fairly picky when it comes to anime (I enjoy it but I can't watch it for hours on end like some peeople I know). If you haven't seen it, you owe it to yourself to watch it immediately.
posted by kryptondog at 7:36 PM on February 25, 2006
Plenty of good recommendations here. Being contrary by nature, I'd like to throw in my 2 cents about things I don't like.
Big O: I watched a little of it once years ago and loved it. More recently I downloaded the entire series and decided it's mostly just atmosphere. Largely the episodes are excuses for big mecha fights and use a lot of filler. Sometimes it tries to be deep and fails.
Trigun: I'm torn. It's fun. It's silly. I don't hate it. There's a whole lot of fun and silly to wade through to get to a tiny bit of serious though and when you do get there it's all very heavy handed. Given the choice between Trigun and, say, Cowboy Bebop, I'd choose Bebop every time.
Serial Experiments Lain: Uses a ton of symbolism and weird happenings to lead you to... well I'm not sure really. I've watched it several times and decided there's nothing underneath the layers and layers of illusion.
I really love Cowboy Bebop and nearly anything of Miyazaki's. I'd start with Princess Mononoke and Naussicaa. Grave of the Fireflies is clearly an excellent film but I sort of wish I'd never seen it. As someone above said it is terribly bleak.
This probably isn't what you're looking for but maybe check out Jungle wa itsumo Hare nochi Guu. It seems like a kid's show and is mostly just silly but there are definitely adult themes. I found it very entertaining but not serious in any way. A little like Lupin in that sense.
posted by joegester at 7:39 PM on February 25, 2006
Big O: I watched a little of it once years ago and loved it. More recently I downloaded the entire series and decided it's mostly just atmosphere. Largely the episodes are excuses for big mecha fights and use a lot of filler. Sometimes it tries to be deep and fails.
Trigun: I'm torn. It's fun. It's silly. I don't hate it. There's a whole lot of fun and silly to wade through to get to a tiny bit of serious though and when you do get there it's all very heavy handed. Given the choice between Trigun and, say, Cowboy Bebop, I'd choose Bebop every time.
Serial Experiments Lain: Uses a ton of symbolism and weird happenings to lead you to... well I'm not sure really. I've watched it several times and decided there's nothing underneath the layers and layers of illusion.
I really love Cowboy Bebop and nearly anything of Miyazaki's. I'd start with Princess Mononoke and Naussicaa. Grave of the Fireflies is clearly an excellent film but I sort of wish I'd never seen it. As someone above said it is terribly bleak.
This probably isn't what you're looking for but maybe check out Jungle wa itsumo Hare nochi Guu. It seems like a kid's show and is mostly just silly but there are definitely adult themes. I found it very entertaining but not serious in any way. A little like Lupin in that sense.
posted by joegester at 7:39 PM on February 25, 2006
Grave of the Fireflies is a Ghibli film, but it isn't directed by Miyazaki. It's directed by Isao Takahata.
posted by misozaki at 7:52 PM on February 25, 2006
posted by misozaki at 7:52 PM on February 25, 2006
You would probably enjoy Spirited Away, which is a Miyazaki film. (He also did Mononoke).
Serial Experiments: Lain is slow, and a bit frustrating in spots, but still quite good. And Cowboy Bebop stands tall; it's just for fun, but it's truly excellent. It kind of reminds me of Firefly/Serenity. (or vice versa... Bebop came first. :) )
I don't think it quite fits your requirements, but you _might_ enjoy the rather strangely-named Bubblegum Crisis: Tokyo 2040. It's not a terribly philosophic series, but it's a pretty good story, despite the name. And the animation is first-rate. There's some really impressive art in that one.
I think it's aimed at late teens...some gratuitous cleavage shots and the like... but it's still pretty good. It's much, much better than you'd think from the name. Late in the series there's a major pacing shift; the last episode or two are very slow, almost dreamlike. Some people found that jarring... it's not typical action-style pacing. But I really enjoyed it, myself.
Note that there's some sort of old Bubblegum Crisis from the 1980s... that's something else, only vaguely related. The 'Tokyo 2040' part is the differentiator.
BTW, thanks all for the recommendations. I haven't done much anime-watching for a few years, and now I have a big list. :)
posted by Malor at 7:53 PM on February 25, 2006
Serial Experiments: Lain is slow, and a bit frustrating in spots, but still quite good. And Cowboy Bebop stands tall; it's just for fun, but it's truly excellent. It kind of reminds me of Firefly/Serenity. (or vice versa... Bebop came first. :) )
I don't think it quite fits your requirements, but you _might_ enjoy the rather strangely-named Bubblegum Crisis: Tokyo 2040. It's not a terribly philosophic series, but it's a pretty good story, despite the name. And the animation is first-rate. There's some really impressive art in that one.
I think it's aimed at late teens...some gratuitous cleavage shots and the like... but it's still pretty good. It's much, much better than you'd think from the name. Late in the series there's a major pacing shift; the last episode or two are very slow, almost dreamlike. Some people found that jarring... it's not typical action-style pacing. But I really enjoyed it, myself.
Note that there's some sort of old Bubblegum Crisis from the 1980s... that's something else, only vaguely related. The 'Tokyo 2040' part is the differentiator.
BTW, thanks all for the recommendations. I haven't done much anime-watching for a few years, and now I have a big list. :)
posted by Malor at 7:53 PM on February 25, 2006
Super Milk Chan and Aqua Teen Hunger Force are in order dontcha think?
posted by stavx at 9:06 PM on February 25, 2006
posted by stavx at 9:06 PM on February 25, 2006
Best answer: I just came across a review for Mind Game, haven't seen it but the reviewer compares it to Waking Life. The few things I've seen from Studio 4°C have been excellent.
posted by bobo123 at 9:10 PM on February 25, 2006
posted by bobo123 at 9:10 PM on February 25, 2006
I'll put in another positive vote for Lain, Cowboy Beebop, Vampire Hunter D, and Ninja Scroll (I hated Ninja Scroll 2 though; misogynistic in the extreme).
In sort of the same vein as Ninja Scroll, I also enjoyed Samurai X, the much darker prequel story to Rurouni Kenshin.
Way out there recommendation that you will probably ignore: Revolutionary Girl Utena. Yeah, it's by the same director as Sailor Moon, and the first 13 episodes are definitely heavy on the shoujo elements. But it's an extremely complex and rewarding story; the darker more interesting stuff begins in episode 14, and the seriously fucked up shit gets rolling around episode 27. Extremely heavy on symbolism, mythology, and archetype, Utena explores gender identity, incest, sexual orientation and the ephemeral nature of memory and reality. Very satisfying for those willing to watch all the way to the end, but not for anyone ashamed of enjoying anime or who needs a series to wear its intellect on its sleeve.
posted by junkbox at 9:24 PM on February 25, 2006
In sort of the same vein as Ninja Scroll, I also enjoyed Samurai X, the much darker prequel story to Rurouni Kenshin.
Way out there recommendation that you will probably ignore: Revolutionary Girl Utena. Yeah, it's by the same director as Sailor Moon, and the first 13 episodes are definitely heavy on the shoujo elements. But it's an extremely complex and rewarding story; the darker more interesting stuff begins in episode 14, and the seriously fucked up shit gets rolling around episode 27. Extremely heavy on symbolism, mythology, and archetype, Utena explores gender identity, incest, sexual orientation and the ephemeral nature of memory and reality. Very satisfying for those willing to watch all the way to the end, but not for anyone ashamed of enjoying anime or who needs a series to wear its intellect on its sleeve.
posted by junkbox at 9:24 PM on February 25, 2006
I'll second, strongly, Junkbox's recommendation of Shoujo Kakume Utena, as well as one if its inspirations, Rose of Versailles (if you can find it). RoV takes place in pre-revolutionary France and the main protagonist is a woman who was raised as a man by a sonless father and who became an officer and the guardian of Marie Antoinette.
Also, if you like baseball at all, check out Princess 9, which is about a girl's high school baseball team.
All of these are targetted at the teenage girl market, but they're all worthwhile for adult viewing as well.
I also really like both Perfect Blue and Millenium Actress. Both are lushly animated and are visual delights and they also are rewarding stories.
posted by ursus_comiter at 9:34 PM on February 25, 2006
Also, if you like baseball at all, check out Princess 9, which is about a girl's high school baseball team.
All of these are targetted at the teenage girl market, but they're all worthwhile for adult viewing as well.
I also really like both Perfect Blue and Millenium Actress. Both are lushly animated and are visual delights and they also are rewarding stories.
posted by ursus_comiter at 9:34 PM on February 25, 2006
FLCL. Its got some amazing moments, some interesting themes and best of all it doesn't wear out its welcome. Far too much anime is a 3-4 hour plot stretched out into 30+ episodes. FLCL is just 6 episodes, so there isn't wasted space.
Oh and Read Or Die (the OVA, but not the tv show) is also worth a watching. Like FLCL it also has decent pacing and no wasted episodes. And the plot is pretty cool, if a little silly.
posted by aspo at 12:04 AM on February 26, 2006
Oh and Read Or Die (the OVA, but not the tv show) is also worth a watching. Like FLCL it also has decent pacing and no wasted episodes. And the plot is pretty cool, if a little silly.
posted by aspo at 12:04 AM on February 26, 2006
Response by poster: Thank you all very much for the list of anime, and for the record, ive seen several of them.
I have seen Cowboy Bebop, which I enjoyed for its overall greatness, and I happen to remind myself alot of the main character, "Spike". I wouldnt point it out specifically for its deepness, but nor would I for its shallowness.
I have seen the first Ghost in the Shell movie, not the second and not the show. As an anime it wasnt bad, but the commenter who mentioned its silliness when it comes to the discussion of androids and robots, I have to agree. Having done some serious study in the area of Artificial Intelligence, it didnt quite cut it. But Someone else mentioned the series was much better, so perhaps Ill give it a shot.
Trigun I also enjoyed, although not for its intelligence. I wouldnt have minded if it was slightly less silly :)
Akira was also good, creative storyline, beautiful art for its time, or any really.
So from this thread Ive basically learned that the anime doesnt exist. :( Or, at least not in the United States market.
For those who havent seen it, Waking Life is about a teenage boy who is in a dream. He keeps waking upo in bed, but hes actuall still dreaming. He wonders around the city talking to his friends and various strangers. They talk about politics, philosophy, love, etc. Its not for childrem, first, theyll be bored because its nearly all just talking, and second because its rated R. But is great if you want a movie that will make you think. The conversations are intelligent (most) and fast paced.
posted by JokingClown at 1:22 AM on February 26, 2006
I have seen Cowboy Bebop, which I enjoyed for its overall greatness, and I happen to remind myself alot of the main character, "Spike". I wouldnt point it out specifically for its deepness, but nor would I for its shallowness.
I have seen the first Ghost in the Shell movie, not the second and not the show. As an anime it wasnt bad, but the commenter who mentioned its silliness when it comes to the discussion of androids and robots, I have to agree. Having done some serious study in the area of Artificial Intelligence, it didnt quite cut it. But Someone else mentioned the series was much better, so perhaps Ill give it a shot.
Trigun I also enjoyed, although not for its intelligence. I wouldnt have minded if it was slightly less silly :)
Akira was also good, creative storyline, beautiful art for its time, or any really.
So from this thread Ive basically learned that the anime doesnt exist. :( Or, at least not in the United States market.
For those who havent seen it, Waking Life is about a teenage boy who is in a dream. He keeps waking upo in bed, but hes actuall still dreaming. He wonders around the city talking to his friends and various strangers. They talk about politics, philosophy, love, etc. Its not for childrem, first, theyll be bored because its nearly all just talking, and second because its rated R. But is great if you want a movie that will make you think. The conversations are intelligent (most) and fast paced.
posted by JokingClown at 1:22 AM on February 26, 2006
I'd like to throw in another vote for Neon Genesis Evangelion. There is a lot of don't-catch-at-first clues in many of the initial episodes that would tip the careful viewer into realizing the writers of this series have an excessively adept sense of the human experience even though it deals with teenagers. Toward the last two episodes in the show (I admit I have not seen the EoE movie/s) it gets extremely in-depth about the nature of perception. Toward the end it gets really trippy, almost on an Akria depth.
Someone mentioned theology in reference to NGE, but I would disagree. It uses a lot of theological terminology but refers to different objects (adam, for instance, being a giant seven-eyed creature), but it really seems like a big diversion from what's really at issue of perception, soul-searching and analysis of how people think on the root level rather than and particular god-subject.
I'd also recommend the films Spirited Away, Metropolis (there are many movies with this title, select carefully), and Akira.
posted by vanoakenfold at 6:42 AM on February 26, 2006
Someone mentioned theology in reference to NGE, but I would disagree. It uses a lot of theological terminology but refers to different objects (adam, for instance, being a giant seven-eyed creature), but it really seems like a big diversion from what's really at issue of perception, soul-searching and analysis of how people think on the root level rather than and particular god-subject.
I'd also recommend the films Spirited Away, Metropolis (there are many movies with this title, select carefully), and Akira.
posted by vanoakenfold at 6:42 AM on February 26, 2006
I second the recommendation for Mind Game-- I've seen it, and it's one of the best animated features I've ever seen, from any country, period (and to compare it to Waking Life is rather limiting, IMHO). AniPages Daily has an exhaustive archive of Mind Game-related posts, if you'd like to read more.
There's no official English-language release, but the Japanese DVD does have English subs.
posted by May Kasahara at 7:12 AM on February 26, 2006
There's no official English-language release, but the Japanese DVD does have English subs.
posted by May Kasahara at 7:12 AM on February 26, 2006
This thread is closed to new comments.
Also, Ghost in the Shell 2.
posted by Jairus at 1:06 PM on February 25, 2006