Self-improvement sources for a total self-destructive guy
March 20, 2019 6:14 AM
Please help me help a friend.
So, this guy is totally self destructive and self sabotaging. Years of failures and his behavior have led to some kind of feed-back effect. He basically has to understand this:
"If you could kick the person in the pants responsible for most of your trouble, you wouldn't sit for a month." Theodore Roosevelt
To make things worth, we may share a common business interest/business soon. Based on my recent interactions with him I won't inject any money in this business (VC available) and will limit my time commitment to an absolute minimum. Still, I would like to have this business a minimal chance of succeeding. Any sources references, books I can can forward to him?
So, this guy is totally self destructive and self sabotaging. Years of failures and his behavior have led to some kind of feed-back effect. He basically has to understand this:
"If you could kick the person in the pants responsible for most of your trouble, you wouldn't sit for a month." Theodore Roosevelt
To make things worth, we may share a common business interest/business soon. Based on my recent interactions with him I won't inject any money in this business (VC available) and will limit my time commitment to an absolute minimum. Still, I would like to have this business a minimal chance of succeeding. Any sources references, books I can can forward to him?
You're not really giving us enough information to go on. What form does this "self-destruction and self-sabotage" take? Are we talking drug abuse and failure to keep a roof over his head, or like, being financially insecure and having relationship trouble?
If it's the former you're not doing anyone any favors by getting involved in a business relationship. If it's the latter, the financial insecurity may be relevant. If this is based on your own ideas about failure and success, you may just not share the same values.
Finally, understanding that you are in fact the source of most of your troubles doesn't necessarily do anything to fix them - for me, and several other people I've known quite well, the vicious cycle was perpetuated by that understanding.
posted by aspersioncast at 8:03 AM on March 20, 2019
If it's the former you're not doing anyone any favors by getting involved in a business relationship. If it's the latter, the financial insecurity may be relevant. If this is based on your own ideas about failure and success, you may just not share the same values.
Finally, understanding that you are in fact the source of most of your troubles doesn't necessarily do anything to fix them - for me, and several other people I've known quite well, the vicious cycle was perpetuated by that understanding.
posted by aspersioncast at 8:03 AM on March 20, 2019
Well, I am not going to fix him. But I want to at least offer him the tools.
How is he Self destructive? Always sabotaging any chance of success. Acting / Reacting cocky and irrational out of an inferior complex and former hurt feelings.
I understand the advice of not getting involved with him in business. And I am not injecting money or even time beyond opening him some doors. There would be a major Fortune 500 company involved with his business.
I am sure there are some good books/talks about how to let the past be past and stop sabotaging yourself.
"But they rarely, if ever, improve during a stressful or time-intensive project. "
I disagree with this, depending how you define project. I was forced in the most stressful times of my life to invent another me.
posted by yoyo_nyc at 8:51 AM on March 20, 2019
How is he Self destructive? Always sabotaging any chance of success. Acting / Reacting cocky and irrational out of an inferior complex and former hurt feelings.
I understand the advice of not getting involved with him in business. And I am not injecting money or even time beyond opening him some doors. There would be a major Fortune 500 company involved with his business.
I am sure there are some good books/talks about how to let the past be past and stop sabotaging yourself.
"But they rarely, if ever, improve during a stressful or time-intensive project. "
I disagree with this, depending how you define project. I was forced in the most stressful times of my life to invent another me.
posted by yoyo_nyc at 8:51 AM on March 20, 2019
You aren't his therapist. You can't fix someone. If he hasn't approached you for help, this won't work. You could talk about how you're working on yourself, I guess, but if someone came to me with "Hey, you keep fucking up. Here's how to stop fucking up." I'd hit the "No." button.
The book Unfuck Yourself I did enjoy. Maybe you could both read it. Or just go straight to Stoicism which is my personal jam.
posted by OnTheLastCastle at 9:21 AM on March 20, 2019
The book Unfuck Yourself I did enjoy. Maybe you could both read it. Or just go straight to Stoicism which is my personal jam.
posted by OnTheLastCastle at 9:21 AM on March 20, 2019
This book might offer some insight: Your Own Worst Enemy
posted by Serene Empress Dork at 10:17 AM on March 20, 2019
posted by Serene Empress Dork at 10:17 AM on March 20, 2019
So, a real question, in what ways has he signalled to you that he wants your help in improving himself? Because that makes a difference, too.
posted by Omnomnom at 1:25 PM on March 20, 2019
posted by Omnomnom at 1:25 PM on March 20, 2019
"But they rarely, if ever, improve during a stressful or time-intensive project. "
I disagree with this, depending how you define project. I was forced in the most stressful times of my life to invent another me.
Interestingly enough, I just had a conversation with my own therapist about this where he discussed how therapists that have gone through the same challenging situation as their client tend to suggest the tools that worked for *them*, instead of being client-focused and exploring tools that work for that individual.
posted by saucysault at 2:12 PM on March 20, 2019
I disagree with this, depending how you define project. I was forced in the most stressful times of my life to invent another me.
Interestingly enough, I just had a conversation with my own therapist about this where he discussed how therapists that have gone through the same challenging situation as their client tend to suggest the tools that worked for *them*, instead of being client-focused and exploring tools that work for that individual.
posted by saucysault at 2:12 PM on March 20, 2019
I can't figure out from your question or follow-up if you want to help him globally, or if you want to help him because you are opening doors for him and you don't want to be embarrassed when he fails.
If it's the latter, I don't think you should open the door for him if that's sort of the price. Because even if he starts working on self-improvement like, tonight, the chances that he will hold it together during business start-up and growth stages just because you suggested it are slim. His particular issue sounds like it will get in the way of him helping himself pretty profoundly.
If it's the former, I would suggest that you still not open this door for him and you tell him why you can't support this effort. That will go a long way, I think.
For any situation, he might try The Willpower Instinct but...I don't think it's that hopeful of a situation unless he wants to.
posted by warriorqueen at 4:38 PM on March 20, 2019
If it's the latter, I don't think you should open the door for him if that's sort of the price. Because even if he starts working on self-improvement like, tonight, the chances that he will hold it together during business start-up and growth stages just because you suggested it are slim. His particular issue sounds like it will get in the way of him helping himself pretty profoundly.
If it's the former, I would suggest that you still not open this door for him and you tell him why you can't support this effort. That will go a long way, I think.
For any situation, he might try The Willpower Instinct but...I don't think it's that hopeful of a situation unless he wants to.
posted by warriorqueen at 4:38 PM on March 20, 2019
I'm just going to repeat this, because I think it's the most important thing anyone's said so far:
If he hasn't approached you for help, this won't work.posted by epersonae at 4:42 PM on March 20, 2019
"I'm just going to repeat this, because I think it's the most important thing anyone's said so far:"
I really don't understand this advise, given here several times. In fact, most people that got hospitalized for some time in a mental institution never asked anyone for help or thought they "needed it".
posted by yoyo_nyc at 6:21 PM on March 21, 2019
I really don't understand this advise, given here several times. In fact, most people that got hospitalized for some time in a mental institution never asked anyone for help or thought they "needed it".
posted by yoyo_nyc at 6:21 PM on March 21, 2019
Well, people who are a danger to themselves and others can be institutionalised without consent, though I understand that even then it‘s not easy.
There, they receive the medication and whatever support by professionals that is deemed necessary. But even trained therapists cannot help people if they don‘t agree that they need help. Even in an institution you can‘t help someone who doesn‘t agree to be helped. People who just go through the motions or reject what‘s being offered - you can‘t change anyone if they‘re not the ones who are doing the work of changing. This is pretty well known, so I am wondering if we are maybe misunderstanding what you are asking for?
Your friend, from what you‘ve written, is not a danger. He just seems to be acting in alienating ways at inopportunate moments, thereby endangering his business ventures and your (non-financial) investment in them. He is insecure, cocky and lashes out. This seems a personality type that is particularly resistant to receiving unsolicited advice on how to change.
What you need is an opening. Hence my question how he has indicated that your advice will be welcome. Like, does he ask your opinion on how to go about aspects of his business venture? Has he asked you to contribute and could you use this as an opening? („I‘ll do it, but not if you continue doing XYZ.“) Does he even say that he knows he has a problem, or that he‘d like to change?
If he‘s not done these things you can throw videos at him till he‘s buried in them, it will make no difference (other than making him angry at you.) Even if he agrees he has a problem, the chances of anything you do helping him change is exceedingly slim - it‘s far more likely to destroy your friendship and burn you out. But at least the way he has signalled that he would welcome help can make a difference in how you can best help him - hence the question.
We‘re not being obstructive here, we are trying to be help you not make things worse than they are.
posted by Omnomnom at 5:23 AM on March 22, 2019
There, they receive the medication and whatever support by professionals that is deemed necessary. But even trained therapists cannot help people if they don‘t agree that they need help. Even in an institution you can‘t help someone who doesn‘t agree to be helped. People who just go through the motions or reject what‘s being offered - you can‘t change anyone if they‘re not the ones who are doing the work of changing. This is pretty well known, so I am wondering if we are maybe misunderstanding what you are asking for?
Your friend, from what you‘ve written, is not a danger. He just seems to be acting in alienating ways at inopportunate moments, thereby endangering his business ventures and your (non-financial) investment in them. He is insecure, cocky and lashes out. This seems a personality type that is particularly resistant to receiving unsolicited advice on how to change.
What you need is an opening. Hence my question how he has indicated that your advice will be welcome. Like, does he ask your opinion on how to go about aspects of his business venture? Has he asked you to contribute and could you use this as an opening? („I‘ll do it, but not if you continue doing XYZ.“) Does he even say that he knows he has a problem, or that he‘d like to change?
If he‘s not done these things you can throw videos at him till he‘s buried in them, it will make no difference (other than making him angry at you.) Even if he agrees he has a problem, the chances of anything you do helping him change is exceedingly slim - it‘s far more likely to destroy your friendship and burn you out. But at least the way he has signalled that he would welcome help can make a difference in how you can best help him - hence the question.
We‘re not being obstructive here, we are trying to be help you not make things worse than they are.
posted by Omnomnom at 5:23 AM on March 22, 2019
Just gently pointing out that everyone in this thread has pointed out that advice that is unasked for and doesn’t fit the person’s view of the situation tends to be rejected, and you are rejecting all unasked advice that doesn’t fit your present worldview. Personal change is really, really hard; we almost ALL feel that way about unasked for advice and become defensive and even more enterenched in our positions.
posted by saucysault at 6:22 PM on March 23, 2019
posted by saucysault at 6:22 PM on March 23, 2019
In fact, most people that got hospitalized for some time in a mental institution never asked anyone for help or thought they "needed it".
I work intake at a psychiatric hospital. This is not my experience at all. People get help when they're open to getting help.
posted by RainyJay at 11:33 AM on March 24, 2019
I work intake at a psychiatric hospital. This is not my experience at all. People get help when they're open to getting help.
posted by RainyJay at 11:33 AM on March 24, 2019
This thread is closed to new comments.
posted by yoyo_nyc at 6:14 AM on March 20, 2019