Running from the bank.
February 23, 2006 2:06 PM Subscribe
I went $26 over on my bank account and the bank has charged me $110 in fees. If I pay them the $26 + say $20 extra then flee the country would there be any serious repercussions?
I'm about to leave the USA to return back home and I have no plans to live in the USA in the forseeable future. I do not have a social security number and the only thing the bank has is a copy of my passport details.
In terms of ethics I am justifing this action because of the exhorbitant fees that are not in relation to the about I'm overdrawn. I think paying back the money I owe plus a little bit more is more than reasonable. The bank will not be out of pocket - it will have made a small profit.
I'm about to leave the USA to return back home and I have no plans to live in the USA in the forseeable future. I do not have a social security number and the only thing the bank has is a copy of my passport details.
In terms of ethics I am justifing this action because of the exhorbitant fees that are not in relation to the about I'm overdrawn. I think paying back the money I owe plus a little bit more is more than reasonable. The bank will not be out of pocket - it will have made a small profit.
It's not like writing a bad check—you won't be facing criminal charges just because the bank says you owe them some money. Not that I support this action.
posted by grouse at 2:14 PM on February 23, 2006
posted by grouse at 2:14 PM on February 23, 2006
Setting yourself up for obviously forseeable problems (even small ones) in the unforseeable future is generally a good way to make your life suck. $110 is a tiny amount of money to pay in order to know that you'll never have to deal with that again. Besides, the fee isn't unreasonable. You agreed to pay it when you opened an account.
posted by JekPorkins at 2:15 PM on February 23, 2006
posted by JekPorkins at 2:15 PM on February 23, 2006
Wait, it is like writing a bad check. You wrote a bad check, or its electronic equivalent. But still, if you pay the $26 I doubt that they can go after you criminally. IANAL.
posted by grouse at 2:15 PM on February 23, 2006
posted by grouse at 2:15 PM on February 23, 2006
Are you crazy? This is the exact sort of thing in twenty years when you want to marry an American, get a great job offer or otherwise find yourself needing to do things in the US that will keep you out -- or at least be a huge pain in the ass. Whether you think the overdraft charges are fair is irrelevant. Ask for them to drop the fees and pay back the amount, I'm sure they're understanding.
posted by geoff. at 2:20 PM on February 23, 2006
posted by geoff. at 2:20 PM on February 23, 2006
Fucking over banks is asking for trouble. True, you don't have an SSN and they probably won't be able to find you. But you don't want to be scared the next time you come into the country that there's a bench warrant for your arrest or something. IANA immigration attorney, but skipping out on a ticket or appearance ticket is a sure way to fuck up your next visit to the states.
posted by zpousman at 2:21 PM on February 23, 2006
posted by zpousman at 2:21 PM on February 23, 2006
I've had hundreds and hundreds of dollars of bank fines reversed. Call the customer service line and tell them, "I'm very sorry that I overdrafted my account, but my balance was reported differently by your online banking and your ATMs, I got confused, and I don't think that I should be held responsible for this error." They'll tell you that you should write down all of your transactions because sometimes the ATMs or online banking aren't up to date. If you insist repeatedly and ask for supervisors when you're shot down, you'll totally get all of your money back.
posted by TurkishGolds at 2:22 PM on February 23, 2006
posted by TurkishGolds at 2:22 PM on February 23, 2006
$110 is such a small amount to pay for peace of mind. You never know if you're going to come back to the US to live in the future and need to open another bank account. Ask for a reduction in the fee - can't hurt - and then pay it.
posted by meerkatty at 2:23 PM on February 23, 2006
posted by meerkatty at 2:23 PM on February 23, 2006
This is exactly like the vast, vast majority of legal questions on AskMe, where the appropriate answer is consistently: "Forget the law. Forget lawyers, forget court. Have you considered talking to these people and trying to work something out?"
As others have said, banks will often waive or reduce fees. If the clerk won't, the head teller may; and if she won't, try the bank manager. Be a polite pest. And if need be, explain your situation. Credit card companies will often opt to recover half a debt if they think the alternative is zero. If the bank knows you're about to depart for parts-unknown outside US jurisdiction, they may be more likely to settle. But don't threaten.
And for Christ's sake, people, stop pressing the legal button at the first, slightest hint of trouble.
posted by cribcage at 2:30 PM on February 23, 2006
As others have said, banks will often waive or reduce fees. If the clerk won't, the head teller may; and if she won't, try the bank manager. Be a polite pest. And if need be, explain your situation. Credit card companies will often opt to recover half a debt if they think the alternative is zero. If the bank knows you're about to depart for parts-unknown outside US jurisdiction, they may be more likely to settle. But don't threaten.
And for Christ's sake, people, stop pressing the legal button at the first, slightest hint of trouble.
posted by cribcage at 2:30 PM on February 23, 2006
If you don't pay it, you will have trouble getting a bank account in the U.S. again. Banks seem to have some sort of system to determine if you have stiffed another bank on fees (I accidentally neglected to pay a bank fee when I was in college and moved to another town). I had to pay the earlier fee to open an account in the new town.
posted by jayder at 2:36 PM on February 23, 2006
posted by jayder at 2:36 PM on February 23, 2006
I've gotten into exactly this situation with two banks. Go there, find a customer service rep--preferably one right out in the open near the tellers, and make it clear that you think the charges are unfair, that you want to clear up the matter, and that you want to close the account. And that you aren't leaving the bank until your demands are met. Both times I've had to do it it has worked--one of the banks posted a bad credit thing on equifax but a phone call took care of that immediately.
Banks service charge the hell out of customers because most of them pay up. But they'll reduce or remove the fees quickly enough if you make it clear that you like your money well enough not to give it to them.
posted by thayerg at 2:45 PM on February 23, 2006
Banks service charge the hell out of customers because most of them pay up. But they'll reduce or remove the fees quickly enough if you make it clear that you like your money well enough not to give it to them.
posted by thayerg at 2:45 PM on February 23, 2006
What jayder said. If you don't pay the fines, you'll be on a bank blacklist and unable to get an account again until you pay the fines. Now or later.
posted by viachicago at 2:46 PM on February 23, 2006
posted by viachicago at 2:46 PM on February 23, 2006
Depending on the circumstances, banks can be pretty good about removing their charges. I once wrote a cheque to cover a small Visa bill (a couple of pounds, for something I bought on eBay - I very rarely use my credit card!), but somehow it managed to get lost in the post, and I was immediately hit with a penalty charge some 25x larger than the original bill, plus interest, plus an admin fee.
Luckily, the bank were great (although they took some getting hold of - the telephone banking service kept redirecting me to a collections agency, and I had to get their customer service agent to transfer my call back to the relevant bank department), and agreed to drop all the charges once I explained the situation and offered to walk up to the nearest branch and settle the bill the same day.
Moral of the story: bank staff are human too. If there are circumstances involved, you can do worse than discuss it with them.
Additionally, as other posters have said, unpaid debts like that do come back to haunt you. You've said you're leaving the US; given the multinational nature of modern banking, it's not entirely unfeasible that whatever blacklist you end up on could actually affect you once you get home! Do weigh it up carefully... saving $110 now could cost you a lot more in the long term.
posted by Incharitable Dog at 2:56 PM on February 23, 2006
Luckily, the bank were great (although they took some getting hold of - the telephone banking service kept redirecting me to a collections agency, and I had to get their customer service agent to transfer my call back to the relevant bank department), and agreed to drop all the charges once I explained the situation and offered to walk up to the nearest branch and settle the bill the same day.
Moral of the story: bank staff are human too. If there are circumstances involved, you can do worse than discuss it with them.
Additionally, as other posters have said, unpaid debts like that do come back to haunt you. You've said you're leaving the US; given the multinational nature of modern banking, it's not entirely unfeasible that whatever blacklist you end up on could actually affect you once you get home! Do weigh it up carefully... saving $110 now could cost you a lot more in the long term.
posted by Incharitable Dog at 2:56 PM on February 23, 2006
I have, unfortunately, not had the same pleasant experience with banks removing fees that other posters have had, but YM, of course, MV. So you can ask them to reverse the fees, and they may or they may not - with me, they usually don't, or they just take off some of it. However. You will definitely not be able to get another US bank account until you clear it all up, and if they're really evil, (*coughwachoviacough*) that $110 will grow and grow. They'll keep on adding fees and interest and so on, even after your account is frozen. So although I hate to say it, the smart move is to go ahead and pay it now.
posted by mygothlaundry at 3:02 PM on February 23, 2006
posted by mygothlaundry at 3:02 PM on February 23, 2006
Let me guess, US Bank?
If you're seriously considering fleeing the country you don't need to do anything, as long as you never come back.
Worst case if you don't want to pay, but do want to stay, is that you should close your account immediately to stop accruing fines, and then pay the bank when you can. Otherwise the bank will report this and it will be bad for your credit.
Painful, but not the end of the world.
(if you move to another country, your credit is reset, by the way).
I've gotten burned by this myself. If you go over, they charge you a fee for every transaction during the day you went over so if you use your ATM card for some snacks and junk food, then make a big purchase that nocks you over, you get charged a fee for everything. In my case, a $34 fee for like a $3 purchase.
posted by delmoi at 3:07 PM on February 23, 2006
If you're seriously considering fleeing the country you don't need to do anything, as long as you never come back.
Worst case if you don't want to pay, but do want to stay, is that you should close your account immediately to stop accruing fines, and then pay the bank when you can. Otherwise the bank will report this and it will be bad for your credit.
Painful, but not the end of the world.
(if you move to another country, your credit is reset, by the way).
I've gotten burned by this myself. If you go over, they charge you a fee for every transaction during the day you went over so if you use your ATM card for some snacks and junk food, then make a big purchase that nocks you over, you get charged a fee for everything. In my case, a $34 fee for like a $3 purchase.
posted by delmoi at 3:07 PM on February 23, 2006
Oh, I didn't read that you were not an American. I'd just pay it if I were you. It would be a pain in the ass if you ever want to come back.
posted by delmoi at 3:09 PM on February 23, 2006
posted by delmoi at 3:09 PM on February 23, 2006
I once overdrafted a few years ago due to various oversights.
I incurred 6 overdraft fees of 35$ each. I got out of each one with a single phone call. You're the customer, just tell them to take them off. It works.
posted by letterneversent at 3:22 PM on February 23, 2006
I incurred 6 overdraft fees of 35$ each. I got out of each one with a single phone call. You're the customer, just tell them to take them off. It works.
posted by letterneversent at 3:22 PM on February 23, 2006
Call them and be nice on the phone. Explain you don't have the $. Be honest and pay them what you agree to. Yes -- I think their fee's are exorbitant and usurious -- let God take care of the offenders -- they'll pay in $&@#.
posted by orlin at 3:23 PM on February 23, 2006
posted by orlin at 3:23 PM on February 23, 2006
Don't bother coming back for seven years then. That's how long banks and presumably the IRS keeps records. I don't know about other countries doing a credit check on you if, say, you want to open a savings account in Germany or something, but you're certainly not going to be dogged by the Feds for skipping out on such a small amount.
All that said, call the bank and be on your best and most polite behavior and take responsibility for the actions and beg for fees. Don't be rude or anything and admit to making the error up front. Typically it's up to the representative to reverse the fees and after hearing from 100 people and all of them blaming the bank it will be refreshing to them to hear the opposite.
posted by my sock puppet account at 3:30 PM on February 23, 2006
All that said, call the bank and be on your best and most polite behavior and take responsibility for the actions and beg for fees. Don't be rude or anything and admit to making the error up front. Typically it's up to the representative to reverse the fees and after hearing from 100 people and all of them blaming the bank it will be refreshing to them to hear the opposite.
posted by my sock puppet account at 3:30 PM on February 23, 2006
I know most people have said tell them you're leaving. I think I might leave that detail out. That way you reserve the ability to threaten to leave the bank AND tell all your (American) friends how petty they are.
Might catch a manager's ear.
posted by SuperNova at 5:03 PM on February 23, 2006
Might catch a manager's ear.
posted by SuperNova at 5:03 PM on February 23, 2006
I think that trying to talk to the bank first is the best way to accomplish this.
But all the people who are trying to scare you into paying the fees are kind of crazy IMHO. You might have a bad mark on your credit record, but they aren't going to put out a warrant for your arrest or anything. Most banks wouldn't even bother to send this to a credit agency. And if there is a bank black list, I've never heard of it. It smacks of the whole permanent record idea in elementary school. I once closed an account with a negative balance (granted it was like $10 not $100) and got an account with the same bank a year later. I doubt you would even have to leave town. If you did get sent to a collection agency (which I doubt would happen), the most that would happen is they would call you every once in while.
posted by jefeweiss at 5:40 PM on February 23, 2006
But all the people who are trying to scare you into paying the fees are kind of crazy IMHO. You might have a bad mark on your credit record, but they aren't going to put out a warrant for your arrest or anything. Most banks wouldn't even bother to send this to a credit agency. And if there is a bank black list, I've never heard of it. It smacks of the whole permanent record idea in elementary school. I once closed an account with a negative balance (granted it was like $10 not $100) and got an account with the same bank a year later. I doubt you would even have to leave town. If you did get sent to a collection agency (which I doubt would happen), the most that would happen is they would call you every once in while.
posted by jefeweiss at 5:40 PM on February 23, 2006
I definitely agree you should call the bank and try to work something out.
I also agree that $110 is a piddling sum over which to risk the future opprobrium of the mighty multinational banking conglomerate. If you incur the wrath of this modern deity, your worldly torments can indeed be endless.
Propitiate the god with burnt offerings, in this case a burnt Hamilton and a burnt Franklin.
posted by ikkyu2 at 5:42 PM on February 23, 2006
I also agree that $110 is a piddling sum over which to risk the future opprobrium of the mighty multinational banking conglomerate. If you incur the wrath of this modern deity, your worldly torments can indeed be endless.
Propitiate the god with burnt offerings, in this case a burnt Hamilton and a burnt Franklin.
posted by ikkyu2 at 5:42 PM on February 23, 2006
I have personally and through my wife had an inordinate amount of experience with this.
1. Not all banks use the same network to verify your banking history. (E.G. She still owes around 1000$ to an out of state bank due to her ex., she was able to get an account at another bank)
2. This is entirely a civil matter if this was done with a debit card and simply makes you a debtor.
3. With a check, the merchant is the one who must press charges, this is a criminal offense.
4. In terms of ethics: You signed a contract when you opened this account, agreeing to these charges. Skipping out without at least attempting to settle with the bank is definitely not ethical.
5. As others have mentioned, I've gotten goodly sums refunded (err....don't ask), though the bank I use has gotten reluctant due to the frequency of NSF fees. If it's the first time, they almost certainly refund the fees
posted by IronLizard at 5:53 PM on February 23, 2006
1. Not all banks use the same network to verify your banking history. (E.G. She still owes around 1000$ to an out of state bank due to her ex., she was able to get an account at another bank)
2. This is entirely a civil matter if this was done with a debit card and simply makes you a debtor.
3. With a check, the merchant is the one who must press charges, this is a criminal offense.
4. In terms of ethics: You signed a contract when you opened this account, agreeing to these charges. Skipping out without at least attempting to settle with the bank is definitely not ethical.
5. As others have mentioned, I've gotten goodly sums refunded (err....don't ask), though the bank I use has gotten reluctant due to the frequency of NSF fees. If it's the first time, they almost certainly refund the fees
posted by IronLizard at 5:53 PM on February 23, 2006
Call the bank and explain it to them. I got a fine waived off my credit-card when I once accidentally overshot the limit. FWIW, mine was a credit union bank.
posted by forwebsites at 6:16 PM on February 23, 2006
posted by forwebsites at 6:16 PM on February 23, 2006
The key thing with financial institutions you owe money to is to keep the dialogue open.
If you owe them money and you disappear, they will send letters to your last known address over and over and over again, or a collection agency will, because that's what banks do. It's someone's job, or a computer's, to call up your file once a month and send another letter. They may also send letters to any referees, family members, guarantors or employers they can identify.
But if you call or write, there's a dialogue. You say "here I am, I'm not hiding, but I don't think I should have to pay the money" and that makes all the difference.
posted by AmbroseChapel at 7:01 PM on February 23, 2006
If you owe them money and you disappear, they will send letters to your last known address over and over and over again, or a collection agency will, because that's what banks do. It's someone's job, or a computer's, to call up your file once a month and send another letter. They may also send letters to any referees, family members, guarantors or employers they can identify.
But if you call or write, there's a dialogue. You say "here I am, I'm not hiding, but I don't think I should have to pay the money" and that makes all the difference.
posted by AmbroseChapel at 7:01 PM on February 23, 2006
I say that, by the way, as someone who's both worked for a bank and skipped out on charges.
posted by AmbroseChapel at 7:02 PM on February 23, 2006
posted by AmbroseChapel at 7:02 PM on February 23, 2006
Anonymous, the fees are in relation to the amount you're overdrawn. They may not really be in proportion, though. I agree it's not terribly fair when buying groceries (or a tank of gas, or whatever you didn't have enough money to pay for) ends up costing much more than you expected it to. Nevertheless, you ran out of money in your bank account. In the agreement you entered into with your bank when you opened your account, you essentially promised you'd try not to do that and you understood what would happen if you did. Recall getting a little booklet called Schedule of Fees, or something like that? The bank informed you of how you would need to manage your money to avoid being charged maintenance fees, overdraft fees, etc.
That said, banks don't like to lose customers, no matter how haughty they get or how many times they threaten to take their money elsewhere. Chances are, if you aren't someone who calls the bank manager once a month to complain about a fee on your account, the bank will probably remove some or all of the overdraft fees on your account.
posted by emelenjr at 8:55 PM on February 23, 2006
That said, banks don't like to lose customers, no matter how haughty they get or how many times they threaten to take their money elsewhere. Chances are, if you aren't someone who calls the bank manager once a month to complain about a fee on your account, the bank will probably remove some or all of the overdraft fees on your account.
posted by emelenjr at 8:55 PM on February 23, 2006
The "blacklist" is called Chexsystems, which is owned by the Deluxe Corporation. They're a private company, but banks refer to them to see if you're on the list. You can only be listed on the Chexsystems list for 5 years. I had the misfortune of being in Chexsystems thanks to US Bank and their stupidity. Oh, and they have a policy of *not* removing anyone from Chexsystems even if you immediately pay the alleged charge-off amount. In my case, it was under $200, but they let me rot in Chexsystems for 5 years. Oh boy was I pissed. Fight Club style of pissed, too. Grrr....
Anyway, after many calls to Chexsystems, I learned that the maximum amount of time they'll leave you in there is 5 years. 5 years where it is nearly impossible to open a checking account anywhere.
As for them reporting anything to the Big Three Credit Bureaus? (They're fuckers too.) I don't know about that. As much as US Bank sucks, they never did report me to a collections agency.
But yeah, call them. Talk to them. DO NOT BE AFRAID to call back, or to go to another branch. I had BofA reverse charges before, but I had to go clear across town. The two local branches had old battle axes for managers. These fucking hags looked at me and decided to lecture me instead of actually helping me. I had better luck elsewhere with a younger branch manager.
posted by drstein at 9:30 PM on February 23, 2006
Anyway, after many calls to Chexsystems, I learned that the maximum amount of time they'll leave you in there is 5 years. 5 years where it is nearly impossible to open a checking account anywhere.
As for them reporting anything to the Big Three Credit Bureaus? (They're fuckers too.) I don't know about that. As much as US Bank sucks, they never did report me to a collections agency.
But yeah, call them. Talk to them. DO NOT BE AFRAID to call back, or to go to another branch. I had BofA reverse charges before, but I had to go clear across town. The two local branches had old battle axes for managers. These fucking hags looked at me and decided to lecture me instead of actually helping me. I had better luck elsewhere with a younger branch manager.
posted by drstein at 9:30 PM on February 23, 2006
I have a friend who left a bank debt in the UK to move back to his home country, France. Three years later, a debt collection agency found him and started harassing him. Call the bank and work something out.
posted by fuzz at 3:38 AM on February 24, 2006
posted by fuzz at 3:38 AM on February 24, 2006
My advice to you is to go into the branch where you opened the account and ask them to waive the majority of the fees. In November and December my ex-wife stopped paying Child Support and I ended up with about $330 in fees over the course of five weeks. I went into the bank prepared with the state's records of child support payments to show them that the reason I'd fallen behind was due to the child support not being paid and a series of small debit card charges mounting up.
Turns out that all I needed to do was to ask. I told them that money had been very tight and while I appreciated the fact that I'd over drawn, paying the fees would just put me in the same situation again. All three times I went in (the charges happend always the day before I got paid) I had a significant amount of the charges removed and ended up only paying $90 in fees in total.
My ex is once again not paying support but it is nice to know that the bank is reasonable about these sorts of things. Just go ask man, you've nothing to lose.
posted by DragonBoy at 7:01 AM on February 24, 2006
Turns out that all I needed to do was to ask. I told them that money had been very tight and while I appreciated the fact that I'd over drawn, paying the fees would just put me in the same situation again. All three times I went in (the charges happend always the day before I got paid) I had a significant amount of the charges removed and ended up only paying $90 in fees in total.
My ex is once again not paying support but it is nice to know that the bank is reasonable about these sorts of things. Just go ask man, you've nothing to lose.
posted by DragonBoy at 7:01 AM on February 24, 2006
This thread is closed to new comments.
posted by ThePinkSuperhero at 2:08 PM on February 23, 2006 [1 favorite]