Effective memes for parenting non-neurotypical teens
November 28, 2018 4:44 AM Subscribe
Help me better parent my 16 year old: experience with autism and ADD helpful
I need to get less involved in managing my kid's life and help her build her independence. Hope me!
We've always been really close (started as a single parent/only child. Now a step-parent in the picture). She's had a number of big challenges - socially and with school mostly. She was diagnosed with ADHD as a young kid and autism a couple years ago. She has anxiety and at situational depression (when she feels stuck in a situation that's really uncomfortable, like school, the depression can get really bad. Right now she says it's not bad). After a fair amount of tinkering over the years, she's feeling helped by being on an SSRI and Adderall. She also has a therapist and a teen support group - actually a couple of them that she enjoys.
She is super bright and starting to hone in on some interests - mostly carpentry and the trades. She enjoyed and got an A in the carpentry class she recently took at community college.
She says she wants to graduate high school but that is a massive stressor between us and a big area where I'm too involved. For complex reasons she is homeschooling now (just trust me we tried many types of schools leading to emotional misery for her and ultimately being kicked out). Homeschooling automatically involves me a lot, but even for classes she takes online or in the community, I have been pestering, nagging, helping her build schedules, checking if she kept the schedule. She will do literarily zero on school if I am not sitting across from her. I'm not exaggerating. I guess carpentry class worked in part because she was more motivated and also it had zero homework. I would actually be OK with her leaving high school if she had some kind of plan instead. But she says she wants to finish.
In other areas of her life she also struggles around motivation and organization. She says she's very into music but has never been motivated to practice an instrument, meet other music minded people, or even go to shows which she has the money to do.
She doesn't read unless I require it as part of the homeschool curriculum - and then can read complex material quickly. She doesn't exercise except the amount I'm saying she has to at minimum. She rarely hangs out with friends. Social stuff is hard - she isn't close to many people - but she does have some friends and doesn't call them.
I know this is starting to sound like mostly depression and that may be part but how it looks to me is like for cognitive/executive function/perhaps autism related social connection reasons it's just very hard for her to get past the hurdles of organizing all the steps of a process and then carrying it out.
On one hand, she is just really poor at getting up and doing a thing. On the other I am definitely contributing to the dynamic by managing things too much. It is driving me and her crazy for me to be so involved in her life. She needs the skills to be independent!
But take exercise: this has proven to be really key to her emotional stability. We agreed together she needs to exercise a few times a week to maintain her emotional health. She picked the physical activity she wants to do. But unless I say, "You must do this thing 3 times a week", and then remind her, and then drive her there, it doesn't happen. This dynamic has to change!
She has somewhat limited screen time but basically would choose to just be on her phone or computer all day if that was an option, which I understand is a common thing for teens, so perhaps other parents, or folks with similar neurological profiles can advise me on how to support my kid, but also help encourage independence. I want her to have the experience of failing, succeeding, trying things while she still lives at home and the consequences aren't too big. It also just drives me insane to get home and see she has done NOTHING all day. Even her few basic chores, which she will be pleasant and jumping up and doing when I tell her, will never get done without me, no matter how many to-do lists, reminder alarms, or whatnot I have her make.
I need to get less involved in managing my kid's life and help her build her independence. Hope me!
We've always been really close (started as a single parent/only child. Now a step-parent in the picture). She's had a number of big challenges - socially and with school mostly. She was diagnosed with ADHD as a young kid and autism a couple years ago. She has anxiety and at situational depression (when she feels stuck in a situation that's really uncomfortable, like school, the depression can get really bad. Right now she says it's not bad). After a fair amount of tinkering over the years, she's feeling helped by being on an SSRI and Adderall. She also has a therapist and a teen support group - actually a couple of them that she enjoys.
She is super bright and starting to hone in on some interests - mostly carpentry and the trades. She enjoyed and got an A in the carpentry class she recently took at community college.
She says she wants to graduate high school but that is a massive stressor between us and a big area where I'm too involved. For complex reasons she is homeschooling now (just trust me we tried many types of schools leading to emotional misery for her and ultimately being kicked out). Homeschooling automatically involves me a lot, but even for classes she takes online or in the community, I have been pestering, nagging, helping her build schedules, checking if she kept the schedule. She will do literarily zero on school if I am not sitting across from her. I'm not exaggerating. I guess carpentry class worked in part because she was more motivated and also it had zero homework. I would actually be OK with her leaving high school if she had some kind of plan instead. But she says she wants to finish.
In other areas of her life she also struggles around motivation and organization. She says she's very into music but has never been motivated to practice an instrument, meet other music minded people, or even go to shows which she has the money to do.
She doesn't read unless I require it as part of the homeschool curriculum - and then can read complex material quickly. She doesn't exercise except the amount I'm saying she has to at minimum. She rarely hangs out with friends. Social stuff is hard - she isn't close to many people - but she does have some friends and doesn't call them.
I know this is starting to sound like mostly depression and that may be part but how it looks to me is like for cognitive/executive function/perhaps autism related social connection reasons it's just very hard for her to get past the hurdles of organizing all the steps of a process and then carrying it out.
On one hand, she is just really poor at getting up and doing a thing. On the other I am definitely contributing to the dynamic by managing things too much. It is driving me and her crazy for me to be so involved in her life. She needs the skills to be independent!
But take exercise: this has proven to be really key to her emotional stability. We agreed together she needs to exercise a few times a week to maintain her emotional health. She picked the physical activity she wants to do. But unless I say, "You must do this thing 3 times a week", and then remind her, and then drive her there, it doesn't happen. This dynamic has to change!
She has somewhat limited screen time but basically would choose to just be on her phone or computer all day if that was an option, which I understand is a common thing for teens, so perhaps other parents, or folks with similar neurological profiles can advise me on how to support my kid, but also help encourage independence. I want her to have the experience of failing, succeeding, trying things while she still lives at home and the consequences aren't too big. It also just drives me insane to get home and see she has done NOTHING all day. Even her few basic chores, which she will be pleasant and jumping up and doing when I tell her, will never get done without me, no matter how many to-do lists, reminder alarms, or whatnot I have her make.
Independence isn't possible for everyone. There are indeed many adults who live full and happy lives but because of executive function issues need a support person. Here in the UK, for example a Personal Independence Payment can hire a support worker that does stuff like literally sit with the person so they do needful life and work things. Asking some people to develop skills to do those things without a support person is like asking a typical human to develop telepathy. Other people can overcome executive function disabilities. Your kid's doctors might be able to help there. I don't want to discourage you from helping your kid overcome those skills gaps but after repeated frustration it might be time to take a closer look and see what's possible.
In the possible case of your kid not being able to develop those skills, it may give you comfort to learn about the role of the professional support person and to know that there are programmes that can be used to get your kid a support person. You can even get your kid a support person while they're still a kid, and get a bit of a break and distance for yourself.
I will also add that the fact that you've been able to get your kid out of the situations that make her miserable is so, so wonderful and good for her. Having had her parent advocating for her and protecting her and getting her out of pain will help her know, in her adult life, that she deserves happiness - and will help her navigate away from, and escape, abusive situations.
posted by Mistress at 5:36 AM on November 28, 2018 [5 favorites]
In the possible case of your kid not being able to develop those skills, it may give you comfort to learn about the role of the professional support person and to know that there are programmes that can be used to get your kid a support person. You can even get your kid a support person while they're still a kid, and get a bit of a break and distance for yourself.
I will also add that the fact that you've been able to get your kid out of the situations that make her miserable is so, so wonderful and good for her. Having had her parent advocating for her and protecting her and getting her out of pain will help her know, in her adult life, that she deserves happiness - and will help her navigate away from, and escape, abusive situations.
posted by Mistress at 5:36 AM on November 28, 2018 [5 favorites]
I think a job or internship could be really really good for her—external structure (that’s not artificially created by you) plus building competence/skill in the “real” world.
If she likes carpentry/etc, have you/she looked into some kind of apprenticeship or internship in the trades? There are “women in the trades” organizations that could be helpful for this sort of thing. When she says she wants to finish high school, is that a proxy for “wants to be able to continue schooling/learning things to have a career?” Would she be able to pass a GED exam? Can you/she look at a job or internship as taking a year off to get some experience in the real world before continuing with school? (I wish I’d done something like that between high school and college.)
posted by needs more cowbell at 5:44 AM on November 28, 2018 [2 favorites]
If she likes carpentry/etc, have you/she looked into some kind of apprenticeship or internship in the trades? There are “women in the trades” organizations that could be helpful for this sort of thing. When she says she wants to finish high school, is that a proxy for “wants to be able to continue schooling/learning things to have a career?” Would she be able to pass a GED exam? Can you/she look at a job or internship as taking a year off to get some experience in the real world before continuing with school? (I wish I’d done something like that between high school and college.)
posted by needs more cowbell at 5:44 AM on November 28, 2018 [2 favorites]
I relate to this question so much that I just pre-emptively told my girlfriend that I didn't write it. I very nearly could have, but I feel like my sixteen year old has made a little more progress than yours.
We've struggled with every single thing you mention in your question, and what's finally started to make a difference is a combination of a lot of therapy to help process and move on from some of the trauma that they have from previous attempts at schooling, a ton of freedom to learn how to self-manage and self regulate and experience the consequences of not doing so, and some really serious discussions about what they'd like their adult life to look like, and the things that they might need to be able to do to have that life.
Sometimes I help provide structure so that they're at least familiar with doing the tasks, even if they need help getting started--if that means that I text them three times a week and say 'please do [x] chore,' I build that into my to-do list. I've decided that doing the thing of their own accord matters a lot less than competently doing it when reminded of it--millions of men around the world don't seem to be able to do household chores without explicit instructions, and somehow, their lives are fine. I'm slowly starting to transition from a system where I tell them to do the thing to a system where maybe they get an email, or a reminder pops up on their phone, and it's working out pretty well. I'm a mostly functional adult and my phone reminds me about chores all the time.
One thing that's been very motivating for my kid is that they have a cat, who they love dearly, and they're fantastic about doing cat-related chores, every day, without being prompted. Their own discomfort is largely irrelevant to them, but the cat's discomfort is intolerable. Setting up situations where the things they're doing are actively important and helpful to other creatures has helped my kid a lot--they've definitely worked a lot harder at school-related things when they have an (online) friend learning similar things and asking them for help, for example.
Sometimes changing the format of things makes it easier--doing school things unprompted is hard for my kid, but doing lessons on their phone is, surprisingly, a lot easier? They have like a seventy-plus day streak at Duolingo right now, and a long streak in a learn-to-code app, and the other day spent twenty minutes talking to me about the physics lessons they were watching on Khan Academy--their grasp of physics has already far exceeded mine, and it's entirely thanks to listening to digital lectures while they draw or play pokemon on their DS.
Changing meds has also been helpful on the self-motivation front--I understand being reluctant to tinker with something that's mostly working, but when a kid can't even motivate themself to do things they want to do, I think that it's worth considering that the meds aren't working as well as maybe they could.
I'm stopping myself here because I feel like I'm writing a novel, but please don't hesitate to memail me if you'd like to talk to someone in similar shoes.
posted by mishafletch at 6:06 AM on November 28, 2018 [16 favorites]
We've struggled with every single thing you mention in your question, and what's finally started to make a difference is a combination of a lot of therapy to help process and move on from some of the trauma that they have from previous attempts at schooling, a ton of freedom to learn how to self-manage and self regulate and experience the consequences of not doing so, and some really serious discussions about what they'd like their adult life to look like, and the things that they might need to be able to do to have that life.
Sometimes I help provide structure so that they're at least familiar with doing the tasks, even if they need help getting started--if that means that I text them three times a week and say 'please do [x] chore,' I build that into my to-do list. I've decided that doing the thing of their own accord matters a lot less than competently doing it when reminded of it--millions of men around the world don't seem to be able to do household chores without explicit instructions, and somehow, their lives are fine. I'm slowly starting to transition from a system where I tell them to do the thing to a system where maybe they get an email, or a reminder pops up on their phone, and it's working out pretty well. I'm a mostly functional adult and my phone reminds me about chores all the time.
One thing that's been very motivating for my kid is that they have a cat, who they love dearly, and they're fantastic about doing cat-related chores, every day, without being prompted. Their own discomfort is largely irrelevant to them, but the cat's discomfort is intolerable. Setting up situations where the things they're doing are actively important and helpful to other creatures has helped my kid a lot--they've definitely worked a lot harder at school-related things when they have an (online) friend learning similar things and asking them for help, for example.
Sometimes changing the format of things makes it easier--doing school things unprompted is hard for my kid, but doing lessons on their phone is, surprisingly, a lot easier? They have like a seventy-plus day streak at Duolingo right now, and a long streak in a learn-to-code app, and the other day spent twenty minutes talking to me about the physics lessons they were watching on Khan Academy--their grasp of physics has already far exceeded mine, and it's entirely thanks to listening to digital lectures while they draw or play pokemon on their DS.
Changing meds has also been helpful on the self-motivation front--I understand being reluctant to tinker with something that's mostly working, but when a kid can't even motivate themself to do things they want to do, I think that it's worth considering that the meds aren't working as well as maybe they could.
I'm stopping myself here because I feel like I'm writing a novel, but please don't hesitate to memail me if you'd like to talk to someone in similar shoes.
posted by mishafletch at 6:06 AM on November 28, 2018 [16 favorites]
One thing that's been very motivating for my kid is that they have a cat, who they love dearly, and they're fantastic about doing cat-related chores, every day, without being prompted. Their own discomfort is largely irrelevant to them, but the cat's discomfort is intolerable. Setting up situations where the things they're doing are actively important and helpful to other creatures has helped my kid a lot
This. For my kid, it was getting involved in an after school activity where they were given roles and responsibilities and things would fall if it didn't happen.
I think it's hard for kids like this to really value the consequences to themselves, because it's hard for them to value themselves in the right way. 'oh, this is bad for me if I don't do it' is thus not an effective consequence. 'My mom will be sad if I don't do it' or 'I will let my friends down if I don't do it' is.
posted by corb at 7:51 AM on November 28, 2018 [2 favorites]
This. For my kid, it was getting involved in an after school activity where they were given roles and responsibilities and things would fall if it didn't happen.
I think it's hard for kids like this to really value the consequences to themselves, because it's hard for them to value themselves in the right way. 'oh, this is bad for me if I don't do it' is thus not an effective consequence. 'My mom will be sad if I don't do it' or 'I will let my friends down if I don't do it' is.
posted by corb at 7:51 AM on November 28, 2018 [2 favorites]
Can you tie some sort of screentime reward to other activities? The thing is -- then you have to step back and let her make those decisions for herself. I know this is difficult because, as with the exercise, there are consequences for you if she doesn't do it. But what about an hour of screentime for an hour of exercise? But she has to initiate it, maybe. And screentime is a reward for x, y, and z of schoolwork. But you don't even have to call it a reward; it's just that screentime follows successful completion of certain other things.
The thing is that you'd have to be patient for this to work, which would mean, I think, getting your own stress and anxiety in check. You said she's in therapy and support groups. Are you also? I think those things could help you a lot.
Good luck. You are clearly a devoted, loving parent.
posted by bluedaisy at 11:24 AM on November 28, 2018
The thing is that you'd have to be patient for this to work, which would mean, I think, getting your own stress and anxiety in check. You said she's in therapy and support groups. Are you also? I think those things could help you a lot.
Good luck. You are clearly a devoted, loving parent.
posted by bluedaisy at 11:24 AM on November 28, 2018
I have a teenager in my life who was like this, and who benefitted hugely from doing a "gap year" program after graduating high school. It was a program oriented around an interest of theirs (biology), but also had an explicit structured "intro to adulting" component, where the kids had a wake-up time, mandatory exercise, chores, etc, and I suppose ambient coaching/counseling from the adult facilitators. It was something like 6 or 8 weeks, at a field station. It was an expensive thing but the family was able to swing it, and the difference it's made has been unbelievable. The kid is now in college, keeping up with work on their own, making decisions about how to pursue goals, etc. If the money were there, I wonder if something like a summer camp or outdoor experience (or similar longish period away from parent, but with reasonably structured environment) would help your kiddo.
posted by LobsterMitten at 12:02 PM on November 28, 2018
posted by LobsterMitten at 12:02 PM on November 28, 2018
I have a similar sibling who is about to turn 40, and want to tell you that your daughter sounds wonderful, and you are giving her so much to help her cope with life. Our family's largest challenge was my father never quite buying into the diagnosis, even now he still thinks sibling is being lazy/defiant and they have lots of arguments.
My sibling has trouble getting past initial discomfort or tedium to get a benefit later, or getting back on track after any derail or distraction. One thing that helped after a derail is going over what went wrong, and coming up with a plan for if it happens again. Like others above, having a pet to care for seems to help push past this; the dog gets walked and fed, the cat gets fed and the litter box cleaned (surprise poops are a strong motivator.) This does extend to people - while married, sibling would manage to do things if they were directly caring for the physical well-being of spouse, but not so much with long-range planning, emotional well-being or mundane chores. Cook dinner yes, buy groceries or wash dishes not so much.
In the teen years my parents were able to get results using a transactional reward system, that was recommended by a behavioral therapist. This was the eighties so I don't know if that's still what would be used these days or is considered a terrible idea. The idea was to earn rewards instead of avoiding punishments (to this day sibling is utterly unmotivated by avoiding negative consequences).
Chores and homework earned points, with a penalty for needing reminders. Generally sibling could potentially earn an hour of TV/console time each day and could save it up for longer sessions; then on the weekend we'd come up with one special thing (pick the weekly movie rental, go the zoo, friend comes over for the day, etc) that parents were up for but would only happen if sibling had a good week.
Sibling did try to game the system (no you can't get points for taking out the trash three times a day) but it was effective once that got shut down and lasted through high school graduation.
The therapist also gave sibling worksheets that remind me of some of the project management templates I see at work: why is this worth doing, what do you need to have in place to do it, how do you know it's time to do it, and how do you know it was successful. There was a short version for smaller regular tasks and a long version for big goals, and the adults helped but sibling had to do the writing in their own words. It did seem to make a big difference, both the process of working out those details and the ability to reference it later. While I'm not sure if that's still a tool they use I do still hear them use the same jargon.
posted by buildmyworld at 3:48 PM on November 28, 2018 [1 favorite]
My sibling has trouble getting past initial discomfort or tedium to get a benefit later, or getting back on track after any derail or distraction. One thing that helped after a derail is going over what went wrong, and coming up with a plan for if it happens again. Like others above, having a pet to care for seems to help push past this; the dog gets walked and fed, the cat gets fed and the litter box cleaned (surprise poops are a strong motivator.) This does extend to people - while married, sibling would manage to do things if they were directly caring for the physical well-being of spouse, but not so much with long-range planning, emotional well-being or mundane chores. Cook dinner yes, buy groceries or wash dishes not so much.
In the teen years my parents were able to get results using a transactional reward system, that was recommended by a behavioral therapist. This was the eighties so I don't know if that's still what would be used these days or is considered a terrible idea. The idea was to earn rewards instead of avoiding punishments (to this day sibling is utterly unmotivated by avoiding negative consequences).
Chores and homework earned points, with a penalty for needing reminders. Generally sibling could potentially earn an hour of TV/console time each day and could save it up for longer sessions; then on the weekend we'd come up with one special thing (pick the weekly movie rental, go the zoo, friend comes over for the day, etc) that parents were up for but would only happen if sibling had a good week.
Sibling did try to game the system (no you can't get points for taking out the trash three times a day) but it was effective once that got shut down and lasted through high school graduation.
The therapist also gave sibling worksheets that remind me of some of the project management templates I see at work: why is this worth doing, what do you need to have in place to do it, how do you know it's time to do it, and how do you know it was successful. There was a short version for smaller regular tasks and a long version for big goals, and the adults helped but sibling had to do the writing in their own words. It did seem to make a big difference, both the process of working out those details and the ability to reference it later. While I'm not sure if that's still a tool they use I do still hear them use the same jargon.
posted by buildmyworld at 3:48 PM on November 28, 2018 [1 favorite]
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posted by xo at 5:35 AM on November 28, 2018 [7 favorites]