Help me get my son's Instagram under control
October 4, 2018 7:09 AM Subscribe
Last summer, we let my 13-year-old son get an instagram account. A couple of weeks ago, my wife discovered that he was following more than 5000 accounts. He says he didn't follow the vast majority of them, and given the number of Russian cosmetic dentistry spam accounts, we believe him. We just can't seem to unfollow enough accounts to get the account under control.
He posts cartoons of our pets--totally innocent stuff, so we're sure that he hasn't assembled this massive collection of spam accounts for cosmetic surgery, buying gold, Brazilian personal trainers, and the like.
Not only are we running up against Instagram's unpublished limits on unfollowing (15 unfollows every 15 minutes), but every night new follows are added to the account, sometimes as many as 100.
We've discovered by a web search that authorized 3d party apps can add follows. He only had one app authorized (Chatbooks), which we have de-authorized. I've changed his password and turned on 2-factor authentication for his account. As a result, we're down to just under 3000 accounts he's following, but over night we still had "only" 4 new follows added.
Any suggestions for anything else we can do to get this under control? We've been working at it for weeks, doing a daily 2 steps forward one step back dance.
He posts cartoons of our pets--totally innocent stuff, so we're sure that he hasn't assembled this massive collection of spam accounts for cosmetic surgery, buying gold, Brazilian personal trainers, and the like.
Not only are we running up against Instagram's unpublished limits on unfollowing (15 unfollows every 15 minutes), but every night new follows are added to the account, sometimes as many as 100.
We've discovered by a web search that authorized 3d party apps can add follows. He only had one app authorized (Chatbooks), which we have de-authorized. I've changed his password and turned on 2-factor authentication for his account. As a result, we're down to just under 3000 accounts he's following, but over night we still had "only" 4 new follows added.
Any suggestions for anything else we can do to get this under control? We've been working at it for weeks, doing a daily 2 steps forward one step back dance.
Can you elaborate on how he is following new accounts? If he's not doing it manually and you've disabled all third party apps, how is this still happening?
posted by sunflower16 at 7:17 AM on October 4, 2018 [9 favorites]
posted by sunflower16 at 7:17 AM on October 4, 2018 [9 favorites]
Agree with Tomorrowful. Unless he's some mega-influencer, this shouldn't be a big deal. Just post a story or a note to let people know he's setting up a new account and walk away from the fire. Wasting weeks on this is not worth it.
He should probably do a big purge of apps as well so that this doesn't happen to his new account. Does he really need Chatbooks on his phone? It looks like it's a photo album making software? Just delete it if he doesn't need to make an album everyday.
I don't even understand why that kind of app would need to be allowed to add followers on your behalf, but as we've seen, apps are now in the habit of asking for way more than they need to and people inadvertantly consent.
Hopefully after this he becomes a bit more cynical about social media and wary of downloading random apps.
posted by like_neon at 7:22 AM on October 4, 2018 [5 favorites]
He should probably do a big purge of apps as well so that this doesn't happen to his new account. Does he really need Chatbooks on his phone? It looks like it's a photo album making software? Just delete it if he doesn't need to make an album everyday.
I don't even understand why that kind of app would need to be allowed to add followers on your behalf, but as we've seen, apps are now in the habit of asking for way more than they need to and people inadvertantly consent.
Hopefully after this he becomes a bit more cynical about social media and wary of downloading random apps.
posted by like_neon at 7:22 AM on October 4, 2018 [5 favorites]
I am not sure what type of phone your son has, but if it is an Android phone that is rooted, you may never find the culprit. I too would burn it down and start again. But before I did that, I would factory reset the phone. Start again with that. Wipe off any possible offending (hidden) software. Then I would have a talk with him about good phone hygiene. Maybe get him to agree not to download any app or any link unless you approve first. Then, I would download Instagram and set up a new account with him. It will take a few days, but all of his friends will learn of the new account.
posted by AugustWest at 7:48 AM on October 4, 2018 [11 favorites]
posted by AugustWest at 7:48 AM on October 4, 2018 [11 favorites]
You can get Instagram advice on reddit. His password may be compromised and I would recommend changing all passwords, yours, too, if it's a shared computer. Talk to him about passwords security; if you use the same userid/ password combination on many sites, when any 1 site gets hacked, your userid & pw will be tried on many other sites. Passwords should be longer than the minimum and should use a good mix.
posted by theora55 at 8:14 AM on October 4, 2018 [10 favorites]
posted by theora55 at 8:14 AM on October 4, 2018 [10 favorites]
Emphasizing what theora55 says. Teenagers are often unknowing, unconcerned and sloppy when it comes to passwords. Lots of them use their birthday ("c'mon, who's going to guess my birthday? They don't even KNOW me!"), or nickname ("my name is James but I used jimmee as my password. NO ONE could figure that out!"). Ask me how I know. At a minimum ask him to tell you his password and critique it (he should change it afterwards anyway). The best thing might be to show him how to use a password manager. This will save him a lot of trouble going forward, and not just with this app.
posted by ubiquity at 8:45 AM on October 4, 2018 [2 favorites]
posted by ubiquity at 8:45 AM on October 4, 2018 [2 favorites]
burn it.
posted by lescour at 9:52 AM on October 4, 2018 [1 favorite]
posted by lescour at 9:52 AM on October 4, 2018 [1 favorite]
I'm a little confused by the way you're using the word "follows". Do you mean inbound or outbound?
I.e., is someone, or something, causing your son's account to follow other accounts? That's what I took it to mean; call this Scenario 1. Or are other accounts following him? Call that Scenario 2.
In scenario 1, which is that HIS account is mysteriously "following" other accounts, that means the account has been compromised and is continually compromised despite the password change. That's bad. I'm not sure how exactly Instagram account-hijacking works, but since you've changed the password (to something secure, right?) and enabled 2FA, that should log all other devices out and prevent anyone else from controlling the account and adding followers. So that makes me wonder if your son's device (or computer) has been compromised. If this is what's happening, you need to take a step back and really figure out where the hijacking is coming from. It could be something more serious than just a password-guess on the Instagram account. A device in your household might be basically powned by someone, and the fact that they're using it for Instagram spam-follows is really the least of your worries.
In scenario 2, where other accounts are following HIM, the solution is to take his account private so that people can't follow it without permission. I think this is really best practice for a minor anyway, and a good habit to encourage him to get into, at least until he's old enough to really want to do performative social media in front of the entire Internet (I'd say that's never a good idea, but then again here I am, writing this to the entire Internet, so...pot, kettle).
Honestly the best way to fix Scenario 2 might just be to kill the account and create a new one, with privacy turned on, and then he can have his friends follow it, and he can approve them individually. But I can understand a certain attachment to the account, if he has a lot of photos or messages or whatever.
posted by Kadin2048 at 10:22 AM on October 4, 2018 [12 favorites]
I.e., is someone, or something, causing your son's account to follow other accounts? That's what I took it to mean; call this Scenario 1. Or are other accounts following him? Call that Scenario 2.
In scenario 1, which is that HIS account is mysteriously "following" other accounts, that means the account has been compromised and is continually compromised despite the password change. That's bad. I'm not sure how exactly Instagram account-hijacking works, but since you've changed the password (to something secure, right?) and enabled 2FA, that should log all other devices out and prevent anyone else from controlling the account and adding followers. So that makes me wonder if your son's device (or computer) has been compromised. If this is what's happening, you need to take a step back and really figure out where the hijacking is coming from. It could be something more serious than just a password-guess on the Instagram account. A device in your household might be basically powned by someone, and the fact that they're using it for Instagram spam-follows is really the least of your worries.
In scenario 2, where other accounts are following HIM, the solution is to take his account private so that people can't follow it without permission. I think this is really best practice for a minor anyway, and a good habit to encourage him to get into, at least until he's old enough to really want to do performative social media in front of the entire Internet (I'd say that's never a good idea, but then again here I am, writing this to the entire Internet, so...pot, kettle).
Honestly the best way to fix Scenario 2 might just be to kill the account and create a new one, with privacy turned on, and then he can have his friends follow it, and he can approve them individually. But I can understand a certain attachment to the account, if he has a lot of photos or messages or whatever.
posted by Kadin2048 at 10:22 AM on October 4, 2018 [12 favorites]
Response by poster: Thanks for all the replies. Here are a few responses:
"You can always just declare bankruptcy - burn it all down, get a new account. That's what I'd probably do."
We've thought of that, but he's got hundreds of hand-drawn cartoons we don't want to nuke.
"Can you elaborate on how he is following new accounts? If he's not doing it manually and you've disabled all third party apps, how is this still happening?"
I wish we knew. That's what's so maddening.
"I am not sure what type of phone your son has, but if it is an Android phone that is rooted"
Iphone, not rooted. He does use Ramme, a desktop app to publush from the computer where he creates the images. Looks like that will go as soon as I get home.
"His password may be compromised and I would recommend changing all passwords,"
He uses pretty good password security and I've helped him use a password manager. It's not an easy or re-used password, and I have changed it.
"I.e., is someone, or something, causing your son's account to follow other accounts? That's what I took it to mean;"
Yes, that's what I mean. I'm hopeful that the increase in accounts he's following overnight was just me bumping up against Instagram limits, but I'm not certain. Primarily he uses Instagram on the desktop computer. I'm becoming more concerned about Ramme, which will go as soon as I get home this afternoon.
posted by fogovonslack at 11:26 AM on October 4, 2018
"You can always just declare bankruptcy - burn it all down, get a new account. That's what I'd probably do."
We've thought of that, but he's got hundreds of hand-drawn cartoons we don't want to nuke.
"Can you elaborate on how he is following new accounts? If he's not doing it manually and you've disabled all third party apps, how is this still happening?"
I wish we knew. That's what's so maddening.
"I am not sure what type of phone your son has, but if it is an Android phone that is rooted"
Iphone, not rooted. He does use Ramme, a desktop app to publush from the computer where he creates the images. Looks like that will go as soon as I get home.
"His password may be compromised and I would recommend changing all passwords,"
He uses pretty good password security and I've helped him use a password manager. It's not an easy or re-used password, and I have changed it.
"I.e., is someone, or something, causing your son's account to follow other accounts? That's what I took it to mean;"
Yes, that's what I mean. I'm hopeful that the increase in accounts he's following overnight was just me bumping up against Instagram limits, but I'm not certain. Primarily he uses Instagram on the desktop computer. I'm becoming more concerned about Ramme, which will go as soon as I get home this afternoon.
posted by fogovonslack at 11:26 AM on October 4, 2018
We've thought of that, but he's got hundreds of hand-drawn cartoons we don't want to nuke.
You don't have to actually nuke it, just change the password to *mash hand on keyboard a few times*, and then he can follow that account from the new one he sets up, and still see all those images. Also, if he's uploading from the desktop, presumably the files he is uploading still exist on the desktop?
posted by Rock Steady at 11:47 AM on October 4, 2018 [8 favorites]
You don't have to actually nuke it, just change the password to *mash hand on keyboard a few times*, and then he can follow that account from the new one he sets up, and still see all those images. Also, if he's uploading from the desktop, presumably the files he is uploading still exist on the desktop?
posted by Rock Steady at 11:47 AM on October 4, 2018 [8 favorites]
He does use Ramme, a desktop app to publush from the computer where he creates the images.
Was this downloaded directly from the Ramme GitHub repo or from somewhere else? Googling it suggests it's hosted on a lot of free software sorts of sites that I would not consider super reputable, so that could be an issue.
posted by Sequence at 12:59 PM on October 4, 2018 [1 favorite]
Was this downloaded directly from the Ramme GitHub repo or from somewhere else? Googling it suggests it's hosted on a lot of free software sorts of sites that I would not consider super reputable, so that could be an issue.
posted by Sequence at 12:59 PM on October 4, 2018 [1 favorite]
Yeah I would be super suspicious of the "Ramme" app being compromised in some way, or his desktop computer is. I'd deauthorize Ramme and then also sanitize the desktop computer, with an eye towards anything else shifty that might be on there.
posted by Kadin2048 at 2:18 PM on October 4, 2018 [5 favorites]
posted by Kadin2048 at 2:18 PM on October 4, 2018 [5 favorites]
Yeah, finding yourself following accounts without doing that yourself means something is compromised, it continuing to happen means something is still compromised. That is a vastly bigger and more worrying problem than how to unfollow lots of accounts and should be addressed much more urgently.
There is a plugin for both Firefox and Chrome called Web Instagram that gives you the full mobile interface in your browser. I've had it installed for years (though I haven't used it much) without problem. It may be a replacement for Ramme, which I'd agree with you looking at very suspiciously.
posted by deadwax at 7:26 PM on October 4, 2018 [3 favorites]
There is a plugin for both Firefox and Chrome called Web Instagram that gives you the full mobile interface in your browser. I've had it installed for years (though I haven't used it much) without problem. It may be a replacement for Ramme, which I'd agree with you looking at very suspiciously.
posted by deadwax at 7:26 PM on October 4, 2018 [3 favorites]
It's pretty easy to download all of his posts if he doesn't have them saved elsewhere, if it's just a matter of saving the images and not the likes/comments. I use a chrome extension called "Downloader for Instagram" (and I don't believe it requires a password, because it works on anyone's account not just your own) which gets the job done.
posted by acidic at 10:00 PM on October 4, 2018 [4 favorites]
posted by acidic at 10:00 PM on October 4, 2018 [4 favorites]
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posted by Tomorrowful at 7:12 AM on October 4, 2018 [54 favorites]