WWMFD with this housing situation?
May 18, 2018 8:11 AM Subscribe
What would Metafilter do with this certain housing situation? Perhaps this is more tolerable than I think but I am at my wits end with decisions. Please hope me or at this point--just tell me what to do. Details below the fold.
If you go through previous asks, I've had some troubles with my apartment. Nothing rent withholding worthy, I don't think. But the dog poop situation earlier has not/will not resolve, and building management and my landlord have no desire to do anything further than notify condo owners of the situation again (like they did a month ago.) I am also having a multiplying number of mice living in my walls (and now they have seemed to move to my air vents) which has triggered a lot of allergies/coughing when I come home. My landlords are responsive and they're really fond of me (in their words "because I'm so sweet to not get angry at them and be a trooper through this all"), but they only will do so much. They now defer it to building management because the pest control has cost them too much ($400 total in the past year) and since they won't enter the walls, they say that building management must take care of it because it's a building wide issue. But building management won't take care of it. So I'm left with mice waking me up in the night/morning/afternoon and having parties in what sounds like the vents by my bedroom. The mice might as well pay rent, they're roommates by this point. On top of that, I would rather find someplace with lower rent (I found a very similar apartment to mine with the same amenities, but it was $300 less!)
The obvious solution would probably be to move? But this is where I'm sort of stuck. I don't know anyone else who has dealt with mice (surprisingly) so I don't know who to turn to. My neighbor is dealing with it as well, but she's moving next month for a new job in another state.
I'm putting up with the mice/indoor poop/other issues because my current place is month to month, giving me great flexibility. I'm at a crossroads at my career and life where I'm unsatisfied with my current job and city. I am looking to move either back to my home state or to another city halfway across the country where some friends and my boyfriend lives, and probably would not stay in this current city unless I landed some amazing job.
It doesn't seem to make sense to pay for moving services ($400-$700) to move to another apartment when I don't intend to live in this city for the next year. It could cost me more money to break a lease if I leave the new apartment, right? I'm afraid to ask about subletting at the showing of apartments because I'm afraid that will make me look like a flake of a tenant.
I can't move to another city or state until I interview and am offered another job, and who knows, that could take up to a year! Staying at my current job for another year makes me feel sick, but I may have to do it. I don't have enough savings to move away without another job lined up. So I essentially feel stuck at my apartment just because it's flexible. It's flexible, but it costs too much. I could look into moving in with a roommate, but I also would have to tell them the caveat of "I'm trying to leave this city, but I don't know when that will be--could be in August, could be in 2019, but I just wanted to let you know" and that seems shitty to them as well.
The only options I am seeing here are these:
-Stay at current place, look into getting inhaler because coughing is getting worse while at apartment. Continue to politely bug them about mice in the walls/vents with the risk of them getting tired of me. Possibly ask for a rent reduction given there are very similar apartments in the nearby area and I've been a good tenant? Is that a thing renters can ask? I mean, if I could pay $200 less than I do now, maybe I could feel monetarily better about staying here.
-Eat the cost of moving and move somewhere else in this city, hopefully cheaper, so that I can eventually get back the money lost from moving? Pray that subletting is ok with that landlord.
-Riskily move somewhere without a job in hopes that I will find another one there, but ultimately would be closer to my end goal of moving + new job.
-Learn to become the pied piper and flute the mice out of the walls.
To be fair, I have not seen mice *inside* my apartment in the past few months like on the floors or in the cabinets as they previously were, thanks to pest control. I'm not sure if my coughing/breathing can be affected by mice living inside the walls. Would you just put up with it and am I being too sensitive? I wish there was some way my landlords/building management would approve of getting into the walls but there are SO MANY MICE I think it may be a lost cause.
I'm sorry this is everywhere. This is just making me really anxious and the thought of losing more money (but for the sake of sanity) and also the mice has me reeling. Thanks in advance for your help.
If you go through previous asks, I've had some troubles with my apartment. Nothing rent withholding worthy, I don't think. But the dog poop situation earlier has not/will not resolve, and building management and my landlord have no desire to do anything further than notify condo owners of the situation again (like they did a month ago.) I am also having a multiplying number of mice living in my walls (and now they have seemed to move to my air vents) which has triggered a lot of allergies/coughing when I come home. My landlords are responsive and they're really fond of me (in their words "because I'm so sweet to not get angry at them and be a trooper through this all"), but they only will do so much. They now defer it to building management because the pest control has cost them too much ($400 total in the past year) and since they won't enter the walls, they say that building management must take care of it because it's a building wide issue. But building management won't take care of it. So I'm left with mice waking me up in the night/morning/afternoon and having parties in what sounds like the vents by my bedroom. The mice might as well pay rent, they're roommates by this point. On top of that, I would rather find someplace with lower rent (I found a very similar apartment to mine with the same amenities, but it was $300 less!)
The obvious solution would probably be to move? But this is where I'm sort of stuck. I don't know anyone else who has dealt with mice (surprisingly) so I don't know who to turn to. My neighbor is dealing with it as well, but she's moving next month for a new job in another state.
I'm putting up with the mice/indoor poop/other issues because my current place is month to month, giving me great flexibility. I'm at a crossroads at my career and life where I'm unsatisfied with my current job and city. I am looking to move either back to my home state or to another city halfway across the country where some friends and my boyfriend lives, and probably would not stay in this current city unless I landed some amazing job.
It doesn't seem to make sense to pay for moving services ($400-$700) to move to another apartment when I don't intend to live in this city for the next year. It could cost me more money to break a lease if I leave the new apartment, right? I'm afraid to ask about subletting at the showing of apartments because I'm afraid that will make me look like a flake of a tenant.
I can't move to another city or state until I interview and am offered another job, and who knows, that could take up to a year! Staying at my current job for another year makes me feel sick, but I may have to do it. I don't have enough savings to move away without another job lined up. So I essentially feel stuck at my apartment just because it's flexible. It's flexible, but it costs too much. I could look into moving in with a roommate, but I also would have to tell them the caveat of "I'm trying to leave this city, but I don't know when that will be--could be in August, could be in 2019, but I just wanted to let you know" and that seems shitty to them as well.
The only options I am seeing here are these:
-Stay at current place, look into getting inhaler because coughing is getting worse while at apartment. Continue to politely bug them about mice in the walls/vents with the risk of them getting tired of me. Possibly ask for a rent reduction given there are very similar apartments in the nearby area and I've been a good tenant? Is that a thing renters can ask? I mean, if I could pay $200 less than I do now, maybe I could feel monetarily better about staying here.
-Eat the cost of moving and move somewhere else in this city, hopefully cheaper, so that I can eventually get back the money lost from moving? Pray that subletting is ok with that landlord.
-Riskily move somewhere without a job in hopes that I will find another one there, but ultimately would be closer to my end goal of moving + new job.
-Learn to become the pied piper and flute the mice out of the walls.
To be fair, I have not seen mice *inside* my apartment in the past few months like on the floors or in the cabinets as they previously were, thanks to pest control. I'm not sure if my coughing/breathing can be affected by mice living inside the walls. Would you just put up with it and am I being too sensitive? I wish there was some way my landlords/building management would approve of getting into the walls but there are SO MANY MICE I think it may be a lost cause.
I'm sorry this is everywhere. This is just making me really anxious and the thought of losing more money (but for the sake of sanity) and also the mice has me reeling. Thanks in advance for your help.
Response by poster: Thanks for the suggestion. I did contact my states tenant rights group and my options are to withold rent or get a housing inspector because the reason to not take care of the pests (historical building) is not a real reason. However, I’m exhausted and that’s gonna take a lot of fight. I am quite sure my landlord would terminate my lease without cause if I went that route. The only neighbor that has issues that I’ve spoken to are people who are moving out, so I’m not sure how much of a unified front I will have.
posted by buttonedup at 8:50 AM on May 18, 2018
posted by buttonedup at 8:50 AM on May 18, 2018
If your intention is to leave this city, my advice would be - start looking for jobs elsewhere. Apply, apply, apply. It's the ultimate move you will have to make and the faster you get on that, the faster you will be out of this place.
If you're not willing/able to fight for your rights in your existing place, do not want to pay to move, then this is the one thing that is entirely within your control to do and that leverages the flexibility being month-to-month in a shitty apartment can provide.
posted by notorious medium at 9:05 AM on May 18, 2018 [2 favorites]
If you're not willing/able to fight for your rights in your existing place, do not want to pay to move, then this is the one thing that is entirely within your control to do and that leverages the flexibility being month-to-month in a shitty apartment can provide.
posted by notorious medium at 9:05 AM on May 18, 2018 [2 favorites]
Call code enforcement today and report your unit. You don't say what state you're in, but I'm pretty sure all of them require pest and vermin proofing. Your landlords say you're nice because you don't force the issue, but the opinions of people who allow you to live in this situation do not have your interests in mind and they aren't your friends.
posted by rhizome at 9:15 AM on May 18, 2018 [14 favorites]
posted by rhizome at 9:15 AM on May 18, 2018 [14 favorites]
Seconding that this is the time to start looking for a job elsewhere. You don't have a signed lease keeping you, so you actually can do this! This is literally the reason to have a month to month lease: when stuff gets crappy you can get out quickly. Take advantage of your freedom and find a job elsewhere.
Definitely get an inhaler and air filter now though.
And do think about escalating to your local housing inspectors / whoever enforces tenants rights and building codes. Your landlords are hoping you will take compliments instead of a safe living environment because they are lazy and don't want to fulfill their legal responsibilities. Don't fall for that.
Your ability to breathe is more important than their wish to avoid doing what they signed up to do when they became landlords.
posted by Ahniya at 9:16 AM on May 18, 2018 [2 favorites]
Definitely get an inhaler and air filter now though.
And do think about escalating to your local housing inspectors / whoever enforces tenants rights and building codes. Your landlords are hoping you will take compliments instead of a safe living environment because they are lazy and don't want to fulfill their legal responsibilities. Don't fall for that.
Your ability to breathe is more important than their wish to avoid doing what they signed up to do when they became landlords.
posted by Ahniya at 9:16 AM on May 18, 2018 [2 favorites]
Perhaps this is more tolerable than I think.
IMO your living situation is actually less tolerable than you think. Mice in the air vents is a health hazard--you definitely do not want to be inhaling aerosolized bits of mouse feces.
It might seem inconvenient, but if I were you and determined not to move, I'd get help from the tenants' rights association in contacting the housing inspector. I'm sure they'd be interested in a building with a serious, unaddressed rodent problem and an unaddressed lobby pooper.
Your landlord and building management are shocking in their unresponsiveness. That's not likely to change without external impetus.
posted by hurdy gurdy girl at 9:17 AM on May 18, 2018 [12 favorites]
IMO your living situation is actually less tolerable than you think. Mice in the air vents is a health hazard--you definitely do not want to be inhaling aerosolized bits of mouse feces.
It might seem inconvenient, but if I were you and determined not to move, I'd get help from the tenants' rights association in contacting the housing inspector. I'm sure they'd be interested in a building with a serious, unaddressed rodent problem and an unaddressed lobby pooper.
Your landlord and building management are shocking in their unresponsiveness. That's not likely to change without external impetus.
posted by hurdy gurdy girl at 9:17 AM on May 18, 2018 [12 favorites]
They now defer it to building management because the pest control has cost them too much ($400 total in the past year) and since they won't enter the walls, they say that building management must take care of it because it's a building wide issue.
OK, this is still making me so mad. This is such garbagey BS. Unexpected expenses like this is literally part of the deal for being a landlord! They're whining about expense is just...what did they think they were doing? How do they think landlording works?
My only real question about these people is: Are they exploitative opportunists, or exploitative morons? Because it's one or the other.
posted by Ahniya at 9:30 AM on May 18, 2018 [2 favorites]
OK, this is still making me so mad. This is such garbagey BS. Unexpected expenses like this is literally part of the deal for being a landlord! They're whining about expense is just...what did they think they were doing? How do they think landlording works?
My only real question about these people is: Are they exploitative opportunists, or exploitative morons? Because it's one or the other.
posted by Ahniya at 9:30 AM on May 18, 2018 [2 favorites]
I'd also read over the classic "ask vs guess" stuff on metafilter. If I'm reading your profile correctly you came from Minnesota to Maryland for work. I'm a Michigander transplanted to Northern VA and HOLY CRAP I cannot believe how aggressive you have to be around here to get anyone to pay attention to you. I've lived here 13 years and I'm still routinely astonished. I think it's entirely possible that your landlords don't even realize you have a problem yet. Also if they get mad at you for not wanting to breathe aerosolized mouse feces it is not the end of the world, so don't be afraid to speak up louder than you think you should.
posted by selfmedicating at 9:30 AM on May 18, 2018 [5 favorites]
posted by selfmedicating at 9:30 AM on May 18, 2018 [5 favorites]
I dunno; it seems to me that it couldn't hurt to explain your situation to potential landlords in your city and ask if they'd be willing to do month-to-month or a short lease. Worst they can do is say no, and you hang on where you are until you get a job out of town.
posted by The Underpants Monster at 10:11 AM on May 18, 2018
posted by The Underpants Monster at 10:11 AM on May 18, 2018
You said the other apartment would be $300 less - just 2 months living there would cover the cost of movers. It sounds like you also could use the reduction in rent to save more money, which would allow you to do things like move somewhere else without a job/leave your current job without something lined up. Since your job is also making you miserable, I bet even just knowing you're working towards getting to leave sooner would be a big improvement for your happiness. I think moving is the right choice, even if you weren't currently living among animal feces in two different ways!
As far as subletting goes, the first step is to ask to see the lease agreement - it should outline what the lease break fee would be (from which you can then calculate how many months it would take to break even with the lower rent), as well as the potential for subletting. I'd also suggest trying to contact a current tenant at the new complex/asking around in your social network for anyone who lived under that management company - I lived in apartment where there was a fee for breaking the lease, but in practice as long as you found a replacement tenant they wouldn't charge you.
On preview, I also agree with The Underpants Monster - many apartments will go month to month or shorter term leases for an increase in rent, so you could end up paying the same amount you are now but in a mice and poop-free apartment. (I would still do the math here first though - make sure you won't end up paying a ton more than the lease-break fee, since in that case it would be better to stick with a year lease and break it if you need to)
posted by jouir at 10:22 AM on May 18, 2018 [2 favorites]
As far as subletting goes, the first step is to ask to see the lease agreement - it should outline what the lease break fee would be (from which you can then calculate how many months it would take to break even with the lower rent), as well as the potential for subletting. I'd also suggest trying to contact a current tenant at the new complex/asking around in your social network for anyone who lived under that management company - I lived in apartment where there was a fee for breaking the lease, but in practice as long as you found a replacement tenant they wouldn't charge you.
On preview, I also agree with The Underpants Monster - many apartments will go month to month or shorter term leases for an increase in rent, so you could end up paying the same amount you are now but in a mice and poop-free apartment. (I would still do the math here first though - make sure you won't end up paying a ton more than the lease-break fee, since in that case it would be better to stick with a year lease and break it if you need to)
posted by jouir at 10:22 AM on May 18, 2018 [2 favorites]
I'm afraid to ask about subletting at the showing of apartments because I'm afraid that will make me look like a flake of a tenant.
If one of your options is to stay in your current place, then what do you have to lose by asking? You could also ask about short-term or month-to-month leases.
I could look into moving in with a roommate, but I also would have to tell them the caveat of "I'm trying to leave this city, but I don't know when that will be--could be in August, could be in 2019, but I just wanted to let you know" and that seems shitty to them as well.
That's for them to decide, and again, what's the harm in asking? You can also look for subletting situations where you're taking over a few months of someone's lease, either at the end or in the middle of their term.
Riskily move somewhere without a job in hopes that I will find another one there, but ultimately would be closer to my end goal of moving + new job.
I'm not sure I get this. If you want to move to the city where your boyfriend and friends are, why not move there with no job instead of some third "somewhere?" Also, can you live with some friends or your boyfriend, if only temporarily, while you look for a job?
My landlords are responsive and they're really fond of me (in their words "because I'm so sweet to not get angry at them and be a trooper through this all"), but they only will do so much. They now defer it to building management because the pest control has cost them too much ($400 total in the past year) and since they won't enter the walls, they say that building management must take care of it because it's a building wide issue.
No, your landlords are not responsive, and frankly they're taking advantage of you and your demureness. Being a landlord entails taking on the financial risk of solving known and unknown property issues. $400 is probably a drop in the bucket against their overall revenue, and frankly, it doesn't matter what they've spent, they need to keep spending until the problem is solved. They need to enter the walls or force their hand with building management. Your landlords are making a profit off your health and suffering. Yes, at the very least you should absolutely ask for a rent decrease if it's not in your nature to be combative and go through a tenants' rights organization. I do think you need to be that aggressive, but I get being tired.
posted by unannihilated at 10:51 AM on May 18, 2018 [1 favorite]
If one of your options is to stay in your current place, then what do you have to lose by asking? You could also ask about short-term or month-to-month leases.
I could look into moving in with a roommate, but I also would have to tell them the caveat of "I'm trying to leave this city, but I don't know when that will be--could be in August, could be in 2019, but I just wanted to let you know" and that seems shitty to them as well.
That's for them to decide, and again, what's the harm in asking? You can also look for subletting situations where you're taking over a few months of someone's lease, either at the end or in the middle of their term.
Riskily move somewhere without a job in hopes that I will find another one there, but ultimately would be closer to my end goal of moving + new job.
I'm not sure I get this. If you want to move to the city where your boyfriend and friends are, why not move there with no job instead of some third "somewhere?" Also, can you live with some friends or your boyfriend, if only temporarily, while you look for a job?
My landlords are responsive and they're really fond of me (in their words "because I'm so sweet to not get angry at them and be a trooper through this all"), but they only will do so much. They now defer it to building management because the pest control has cost them too much ($400 total in the past year) and since they won't enter the walls, they say that building management must take care of it because it's a building wide issue.
No, your landlords are not responsive, and frankly they're taking advantage of you and your demureness. Being a landlord entails taking on the financial risk of solving known and unknown property issues. $400 is probably a drop in the bucket against their overall revenue, and frankly, it doesn't matter what they've spent, they need to keep spending until the problem is solved. They need to enter the walls or force their hand with building management. Your landlords are making a profit off your health and suffering. Yes, at the very least you should absolutely ask for a rent decrease if it's not in your nature to be combative and go through a tenants' rights organization. I do think you need to be that aggressive, but I get being tired.
posted by unannihilated at 10:51 AM on May 18, 2018 [1 favorite]
Response by poster: Do I need to notify my landlord that a housing inspector is coming by? Get their permission before they come?
posted by buttonedup at 11:17 AM on May 18, 2018
posted by buttonedup at 11:17 AM on May 18, 2018
Pretty sure your landlord’s comments about how accommodating you’ve been are meant to disarm you, in much the same way that I might try to disarm a collaborator I’ve put off for weeks by saying “thanks for your patience” instead of “sorry, here’s that thing I owe you.” They’re manipulating you, in other words.
posted by eirias at 11:32 AM on May 18, 2018 [2 favorites]
posted by eirias at 11:32 AM on May 18, 2018 [2 favorites]
I am quite sure my landlord would terminate my lease without cause if I went that route.
Did the tenants rights group directly tell you that? When is your lease up? If you have, say, six months left, I would be a thorn in their side. It's a difficult, lengthy process to evict people in most places if they are paying their rent on time. Check again with the tenants rights group.
Do I need to notify my landlord that a housing inspector is coming by? Get their permission before they come?
What? No. Fuuuck them, they are affecting your health and they don't care. You have given them plenty of warning. Not just the disease risk and asthma, but also the anxiety and lack of sleep.
If you really want to give them one more chance, tell them that building management needs to take care of it within two weeks or you will call the housing inspector. They cannot summarily throw your stuff out on the curb.
posted by AFABulous at 11:34 AM on May 18, 2018 [1 favorite]
Did the tenants rights group directly tell you that? When is your lease up? If you have, say, six months left, I would be a thorn in their side. It's a difficult, lengthy process to evict people in most places if they are paying their rent on time. Check again with the tenants rights group.
Do I need to notify my landlord that a housing inspector is coming by? Get their permission before they come?
What? No. Fuuuck them, they are affecting your health and they don't care. You have given them plenty of warning. Not just the disease risk and asthma, but also the anxiety and lack of sleep.
If you really want to give them one more chance, tell them that building management needs to take care of it within two weeks or you will call the housing inspector. They cannot summarily throw your stuff out on the curb.
posted by AFABulous at 11:34 AM on May 18, 2018 [1 favorite]
Nope, the inspectors will let the building owner know what they need to do after they inspect the place. Be sure to point out any spots in the common areas that also might do with some attention.
Depending on where you are, trying to evict you after you call the building inspector might qualify as a retaliatory eviction, which is a no-no.
posted by rhizome at 11:36 AM on May 18, 2018
Depending on where you are, trying to evict you after you call the building inspector might qualify as a retaliatory eviction, which is a no-no.
posted by rhizome at 11:36 AM on May 18, 2018
Response by poster: Just as a reminder, I’m currently month to month, which is why they can kick me out without reason (at least I thought that’s how it worked from researching laws.)
posted by buttonedup at 11:59 AM on May 18, 2018
posted by buttonedup at 11:59 AM on May 18, 2018
Mt first thought I'd try to get the neighbors that are leaving to report. It makes sense, they are leaving, and if your landlord is an asshole, they can't blame you.
However, f you both report you may get the city out there faster.
posted by AlexiaSky at 12:34 PM on May 18, 2018 [1 favorite]
However, f you both report you may get the city out there faster.
posted by AlexiaSky at 12:34 PM on May 18, 2018 [1 favorite]
Like with jobs in at-will states, they can kick you out for no reason but they can't kick you out for a prohibited reason.
posted by rhizome at 12:38 PM on May 18, 2018 [3 favorites]
posted by rhizome at 12:38 PM on May 18, 2018 [3 favorites]
They can certainly give you the notice required in your lease and require you to vacate (subject to state law, which may either require a longer notice period or disallow nonrenewal in the case of retaliation), just as you could in a month to month arrangement. That said, some states don't provide for any statutory penalty for holding over regardless, in which case they'd have to formally evict you, which they may well fail to do properly.
I can't even count the number of times my last landlord told me to GTFO, but we paid rent every month and she never provided the required notice in writing nor bothered to even try to do what was necessary to pursue an actual eviction. (It's relatively easy, but the form and timing of the notice is precisely prescribed by law and the courts don't tolerate any deviance, considering defective notice no notice) The crazy ones rarely do anything serious, it's the ones who carefully ensure they are doing the bare minimum that are the most trouble.
If your landlord is willing to let this infestation continue, it's a near certainty that there are other housing code violations you can use as leverage if need be. It's likely that they will not be allowed to rent the place again until everything is fixed and the place is reinspected should you bring those violations to the attention of the authorities.
If you do end up getting in a tiff with the landlord, don't ruminate about it. Make plans for any outcome and then it doesn't matter what they do. If you've got the money to move you can do it if need be, and if you have a plan and some help, it's not even that hard. Armed with that security you can demand that the landlord remediate the unsanitary conditions with no worry about how they might respond.
posted by wierdo at 12:56 AM on May 19, 2018
I can't even count the number of times my last landlord told me to GTFO, but we paid rent every month and she never provided the required notice in writing nor bothered to even try to do what was necessary to pursue an actual eviction. (It's relatively easy, but the form and timing of the notice is precisely prescribed by law and the courts don't tolerate any deviance, considering defective notice no notice) The crazy ones rarely do anything serious, it's the ones who carefully ensure they are doing the bare minimum that are the most trouble.
If your landlord is willing to let this infestation continue, it's a near certainty that there are other housing code violations you can use as leverage if need be. It's likely that they will not be allowed to rent the place again until everything is fixed and the place is reinspected should you bring those violations to the attention of the authorities.
If you do end up getting in a tiff with the landlord, don't ruminate about it. Make plans for any outcome and then it doesn't matter what they do. If you've got the money to move you can do it if need be, and if you have a plan and some help, it's not even that hard. Armed with that security you can demand that the landlord remediate the unsanitary conditions with no worry about how they might respond.
posted by wierdo at 12:56 AM on May 19, 2018
This thread is closed to new comments.
You should understand the applicable laws in your jurisdiction regarding mice and other vermin, as well as the relevant clause in your lease. A local tenants rights group can help.
I suggest talking to your neighbors, as mice in shared walls affects them as well -your local tenants right group can help with this.
posted by the man of twists and turns at 8:28 AM on May 18, 2018 [2 favorites]