Sleepless in Seattle: Must landlord get rid of mice?
February 22, 2016 3:20 AM Subscribe
We pay through the nose for a so-called luxury apartment in the middle of our city (we're carless and wanted to live close to our jobs). We feel our place should be rodent-free. Do we have any recourse, legal or otherwise?
We've been living in a remodeled older building for almost three years under the thumb of an on-site manager who is pretty awful about responding to our maintenance issues. This guy is an over-promiser who assures us he'll "get right on" stuff and then forgets about us entirely. We document our concerns in multiple email messages, and he just ignores them -- unless he can figure out a way to blame us for anything he can find. It happened recently when our washing machine went haywire...he's still letting us know how lucky we are that he didn't charge us "thousands of dollars" for the damage we apparently did when running the thing caused flooding in another unit. We can't figure out who his boss is or who our property management company is -- it's not in our contract documentation or anywhere online -- so we don't have a lot of recourse when something needs attention. The guy's a liar who doesn't do shit, basically, and we dislike dealing with him so much that when things go wrong in our place we've fixed what we could on our own dime, and just dealt with everything else.
Since discovering mice running up our bedroom curtains, though, we've had to involve him. My husband and I are both wimps where rodents are concerned. The first time we saw a mouse we came unglued (they're so cute but I don't want them in my bed), so we left our place over the weekend and stayed a few nights at a hotel, after pleading with the manager to set some traps. Dude assured us that he's great at catching mice because he's from Idaho. (Oh, well of course you are then.) He set one trap in the bathroom and another in the kitchen, but on our return the critters are still rooming with us.
My question -- to what extent is the landlord responsible for dealing with this? We plan to move out asap since this guy's track record for resolving issues has been dismal. Are there any other options? I did my research before asking this question, and saw responses to other mice-related questions that said mice are just a fact of city life. Yet it's a quality of life issue. We live in an expensive city in the middle of town, and we feel like we pay so much for this place, it should be rodent free. Can we charge the property management company (whoever they are) for the days we've been unable to stomach sleeping in our apartment? It's a really terrible time for us to contemplate moving and we're in a tizzy. Would just appreciate any thoughts or random advice.
We've been living in a remodeled older building for almost three years under the thumb of an on-site manager who is pretty awful about responding to our maintenance issues. This guy is an over-promiser who assures us he'll "get right on" stuff and then forgets about us entirely. We document our concerns in multiple email messages, and he just ignores them -- unless he can figure out a way to blame us for anything he can find. It happened recently when our washing machine went haywire...he's still letting us know how lucky we are that he didn't charge us "thousands of dollars" for the damage we apparently did when running the thing caused flooding in another unit. We can't figure out who his boss is or who our property management company is -- it's not in our contract documentation or anywhere online -- so we don't have a lot of recourse when something needs attention. The guy's a liar who doesn't do shit, basically, and we dislike dealing with him so much that when things go wrong in our place we've fixed what we could on our own dime, and just dealt with everything else.
Since discovering mice running up our bedroom curtains, though, we've had to involve him. My husband and I are both wimps where rodents are concerned. The first time we saw a mouse we came unglued (they're so cute but I don't want them in my bed), so we left our place over the weekend and stayed a few nights at a hotel, after pleading with the manager to set some traps. Dude assured us that he's great at catching mice because he's from Idaho. (Oh, well of course you are then.) He set one trap in the bathroom and another in the kitchen, but on our return the critters are still rooming with us.
My question -- to what extent is the landlord responsible for dealing with this? We plan to move out asap since this guy's track record for resolving issues has been dismal. Are there any other options? I did my research before asking this question, and saw responses to other mice-related questions that said mice are just a fact of city life. Yet it's a quality of life issue. We live in an expensive city in the middle of town, and we feel like we pay so much for this place, it should be rodent free. Can we charge the property management company (whoever they are) for the days we've been unable to stomach sleeping in our apartment? It's a really terrible time for us to contemplate moving and we're in a tizzy. Would just appreciate any thoughts or random advice.
Best answer: If you have mice climbing up your curtains, you got a real problem. For your own health and safety, how about you call an exterminator. Yes, you'll have to pay for it, but it's better than living with bloody mice climbing up the portieres. The exterminator can tell you how bad the infestation is etc. After that, call the city/county health dept. and report your landlord.
PS: get those curtains down and cleaned.
posted by james33 at 3:55 AM on February 22, 2016 [4 favorites]
PS: get those curtains down and cleaned.
posted by james33 at 3:55 AM on February 22, 2016 [4 favorites]
> We can't figure out who his boss is or who our property management company is
Then you have not done enough investigating. Who is the payee on rent checks? Have you tracked down that company? (I'm sure it's not Joe Slow, your onsite guy.)
Who owns the building? The city's tax assessor knows, and it's public information.
posted by megatherium at 4:17 AM on February 22, 2016 [5 favorites]
Then you have not done enough investigating. Who is the payee on rent checks? Have you tracked down that company? (I'm sure it's not Joe Slow, your onsite guy.)
Who owns the building? The city's tax assessor knows, and it's public information.
posted by megatherium at 4:17 AM on February 22, 2016 [5 favorites]
Best answer: As you've noticed, the mice don't care how much you pay for your place. They're very egalitarian that way.
I have been in a situation with mice and an unresponsive landlord. It matters a little bit what kind of building you're in. If it's just you, then you might be able to take matters into your own hands with some success. If there are other units in the building, then you really need the landlord's cooperation to address the problem — otherwise the mice will just live happily in the walls and your neighbours' units. (In my case, the building had other units in it that were vacant, which must have been great for the mice: Come over to my place for a snack and then retreat to another unit where there's no one chasing them with a broom and screaming obscenities.)
The details of deducting anything from your rent are going to vary by jurisdiction. You're going to have a really hard time getting anyone to pay for the nights you slept outside your home. Possibly if the problem goes on long enough and you follow the procedure and document it, you could get reimbursed for some mouse traps. But those are like... 99¢ for a package. In principle you shouldn't have to pay for it. In practice, you should follow the advice on past ask.me questions about fighting mice and spend $10 or so laying down and baiting traps so you can get a jump on this situation.
So to summarize: You should pursue getting the landlord to get an exterminator to your place, absolutely. In the meantime, you should be setting traps yourself and making plans to move. (Mice and lousy landlords are always a possibility, but it sounds like you've found a terrible combo here.) And don't get too attached to the idea of deducting much from the rent.
I'm sorry you're going through this. If I sound at all flip now, it's only because I made it out alive and tried to develop a sense of humour about these things. Part of it is psychological. In the thick of it, I spent way too much time thinking about and dealing with mice. It sucked.
They might live in your building; don't let them live in your head.
Good luck
posted by veggieboy at 4:39 AM on February 22, 2016 [3 favorites]
I have been in a situation with mice and an unresponsive landlord. It matters a little bit what kind of building you're in. If it's just you, then you might be able to take matters into your own hands with some success. If there are other units in the building, then you really need the landlord's cooperation to address the problem — otherwise the mice will just live happily in the walls and your neighbours' units. (In my case, the building had other units in it that were vacant, which must have been great for the mice: Come over to my place for a snack and then retreat to another unit where there's no one chasing them with a broom and screaming obscenities.)
The details of deducting anything from your rent are going to vary by jurisdiction. You're going to have a really hard time getting anyone to pay for the nights you slept outside your home. Possibly if the problem goes on long enough and you follow the procedure and document it, you could get reimbursed for some mouse traps. But those are like... 99¢ for a package. In principle you shouldn't have to pay for it. In practice, you should follow the advice on past ask.me questions about fighting mice and spend $10 or so laying down and baiting traps so you can get a jump on this situation.
So to summarize: You should pursue getting the landlord to get an exterminator to your place, absolutely. In the meantime, you should be setting traps yourself and making plans to move. (Mice and lousy landlords are always a possibility, but it sounds like you've found a terrible combo here.) And don't get too attached to the idea of deducting much from the rent.
I'm sorry you're going through this. If I sound at all flip now, it's only because I made it out alive and tried to develop a sense of humour about these things. Part of it is psychological. In the thick of it, I spent way too much time thinking about and dealing with mice. It sucked.
They might live in your building; don't let them live in your head.
Good luck
posted by veggieboy at 4:39 AM on February 22, 2016 [3 favorites]
Mod note: One comment deleted. Folks, let's try to focus on the main question, which is about renters' rights regarding this situation in Seattle (or other advice that might help OP resolve the situation with the building management).
posted by taz (staff) at 4:45 AM on February 22, 2016
posted by taz (staff) at 4:45 AM on February 22, 2016
Best answer: Landlords are required by state law to keep a unit inhabitable, including free of vermin. The tenants' union of Washington has your back on this.
posted by blnkfrnk at 5:51 AM on February 22, 2016 [5 favorites]
posted by blnkfrnk at 5:51 AM on February 22, 2016 [5 favorites]
Catching mice is surprisingly hard. Unless your place is basically covered in mouse traps, it could take weeks to get them all. The best remedy (short of a cat) is to be stupidly, meticulously clean about food for a couple weeks until they go away. No crumbs or dirty dishes out, ever. The landlord can't do that for you.
posted by miyabo at 6:41 AM on February 22, 2016 [1 favorite]
posted by miyabo at 6:41 AM on February 22, 2016 [1 favorite]
Best answer: Who is your rental agreement with? What does it say about pest control?
If the maintenance guy sucks this much, can you coordinate with other tenants on this?
posted by k8t at 6:56 AM on February 22, 2016 [1 favorite]
If the maintenance guy sucks this much, can you coordinate with other tenants on this?
posted by k8t at 6:56 AM on February 22, 2016 [1 favorite]
Best answer: blnkfrnk has it; RCW 59.18.060 requires the landlord to control infestations. The landlord was actually legally required to give you a copy of the Seattle Landlord-Tenant Laws when you signed your rental agreement, but it sounds like he knows as much about the law as he does about catching mice.
RCW 59.18.090 covers what your recourses are if the problem isn't dealt with in a timely manner. It's summarized on page 8 of the linked PDF. I think you're out of luck when it comes to being reimbursed for your hotel stay. If you had no heat in your place during a below-freezing cold snap, maybe. But mice don't make a unit unlivable.
posted by cirocco at 6:56 AM on February 22, 2016 [1 favorite]
RCW 59.18.090 covers what your recourses are if the problem isn't dealt with in a timely manner. It's summarized on page 8 of the linked PDF. I think you're out of luck when it comes to being reimbursed for your hotel stay. If you had no heat in your place during a below-freezing cold snap, maybe. But mice don't make a unit unlivable.
posted by cirocco at 6:56 AM on February 22, 2016 [1 favorite]
Best answer: You can look up the property owner at the King County Assessor's web page.
posted by Blue Jello Elf at 7:07 AM on February 22, 2016 [5 favorites]
posted by Blue Jello Elf at 7:07 AM on February 22, 2016 [5 favorites]
Best answer: We rent in a chic part of town and also pay through our nose. Mice were a serious problem and our landlord was obligated to take care of it.
Bit exterminators often use crazy chemicals or set down glue traps- I didn't want to have chemicals affect us or worry about dead mice then being in our walls. I guess an exterminator should be able to do the job so I don't have to worry about that, but I wasn't convinced.
So we tried some of our own tricks including traps. What finally ended up working wa very inexpensive and relatively humane (compared to traps and poison): mouse pepper spray. After spraying the concerned areas a couple of times over the course of the week, we've been mouse free for several months.
posted by cacao at 8:01 AM on February 22, 2016
Bit exterminators often use crazy chemicals or set down glue traps- I didn't want to have chemicals affect us or worry about dead mice then being in our walls. I guess an exterminator should be able to do the job so I don't have to worry about that, but I wasn't convinced.
So we tried some of our own tricks including traps. What finally ended up working wa very inexpensive and relatively humane (compared to traps and poison): mouse pepper spray. After spraying the concerned areas a couple of times over the course of the week, we've been mouse free for several months.
posted by cacao at 8:01 AM on February 22, 2016
The landlord will need to deal with it . The way that reads, the on-site guy might try to say that you're responsible for the mice, so its important that you take steps to make sure all your food is stored away, but once you've done your part and it'll be up to the landlord to do the rest.
Like others have said, its time for you to get serious about your living situation. Who owns the property you rent? Who are you paying every month? When you signed your lease, who was there? What sort of contact information can you find for that person/company? The sooner you sort out how to escalate concerns, the (potentially) easier your life will be.
posted by GilvearSt at 8:19 AM on February 22, 2016
Like others have said, its time for you to get serious about your living situation. Who owns the property you rent? Who are you paying every month? When you signed your lease, who was there? What sort of contact information can you find for that person/company? The sooner you sort out how to escalate concerns, the (potentially) easier your life will be.
posted by GilvearSt at 8:19 AM on February 22, 2016
Absolutely find the landlord and make them deal with it. It is their responsibility. I had a mice problem in my apartment. I made sure there were glue traps everywhere and not a crumb could be found on any surface. It didn't help at all. The little f**krs came in anyway. What finally worked was a combo of an exterminator putting out poison near the areas where the mice were finding their way in, and plugging the holes where the mice found their way in. They are not always looking for food. It's often just trying to get someplace warm and dry. After the 3rd visit by the exterminator the landlords finally found the time and money to fix the baseboard behind my stove and NO MORE MICE! But guess who has mice now? The lady who lives above me.
posted by pjsky at 8:21 AM on February 22, 2016 [2 favorites]
posted by pjsky at 8:21 AM on February 22, 2016 [2 favorites]
Best answer: The thing with mice in multifamily dwellings is that you can be scrupulously clean about food and trash, but your neighbor may not be. The entire building needs to be dealt with to stop an infestation of mice. That is a job for your landlord and it is also his legal responsibility.
Don't waste your time with glue traps, etc. The building has the infestation - not your unit - the building. Find your landlord and inform him of the problem. It sounds like your dealing with the super/property manager and that is the wrong person. You want the person who has legal accountability. That is the landlord.
posted by 26.2 at 11:57 AM on February 22, 2016 [2 favorites]
Don't waste your time with glue traps, etc. The building has the infestation - not your unit - the building. Find your landlord and inform him of the problem. It sounds like your dealing with the super/property manager and that is the wrong person. You want the person who has legal accountability. That is the landlord.
posted by 26.2 at 11:57 AM on February 22, 2016 [2 favorites]
You need to be absolutely spotlessly clean. Nothing else will work for long if you slip up on cleanliness.
That said, get traps. Snap traps and and glue traps (make sure you kill the mice quickly with a frying pan) are good.
Find the holes and plug them with steel wool.
I've had a landlord pay for traps and bulk steel wool.
posted by esprit de l'escalier at 9:31 PM on February 22, 2016
That said, get traps. Snap traps and and glue traps (make sure you kill the mice quickly with a frying pan) are good.
Find the holes and plug them with steel wool.
I've had a landlord pay for traps and bulk steel wool.
posted by esprit de l'escalier at 9:31 PM on February 22, 2016
This might not be an option, but have you considered a cat? We were having mice problems, and were leaning towards a cat, and then we had a cat and no mice problem. Definitely wouldn't say get a cat specifically because of the mice (because a cat is probably more work in the end then whatever you do about the mice, and you can't be cavalier about the responsibility for a little guy), but cats are wonderful and if you were considering it, then this might be a good time.
posted by Stilling Still Dreaming at 8:07 AM on February 23, 2016
posted by Stilling Still Dreaming at 8:07 AM on February 23, 2016
Cats can help, but I personally would not get a cat until I was certain that my landlord or exterminator would not be using poison to control the mice. A cat that chews on/eats a dead/dying mouse that ate poison can in turn be poisoned.
Also, some cats are great mousers and some are just not, and you can't tell just by looking which one you'll get.
posted by blnkfrnk at 3:35 PM on February 23, 2016
Also, some cats are great mousers and some are just not, and you can't tell just by looking which one you'll get.
posted by blnkfrnk at 3:35 PM on February 23, 2016
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You should also make sure that food is well sealed and that there aren't any easy food sources lying around.
posted by nalyd at 3:34 AM on February 22, 2016 [1 favorite]