How to be more present and interested in my marriage?
May 12, 2018 5:44 AM Subscribe
I am a 33F who has been married to a 40F for 10 months. Though I was excited to marry my husband, afterwards I became disinterested. I have written here before only 4 months after the wedding but was not ready to open up and now I am.
Hello! This was my first stab at being open:
How to be content in a new marriage?
I didn't put a lot of details but the things I did all still apply:
-Have been to therapy
-I know I am not self-actualized
-still daydream by looking up one bedroom apartments
-have been engaged 3 times before this (to 3 different men) but always called off wedding. I did not have the feeling to run before my marriage and did it, and I don't have the feeling to run now but more a "apathetic go through the motions life"
-I am on anti depressants/anti anxiety meds
Anyways.
I used to be a very in-touch emotional person. After my 2nd engagement ended, I decided to grow a backbone and not sweat or coddle anyone's problems and looking back, perhaps I went too much the other way. I don't know how to get to a happy medium: of having a backbone but being a loving person. With kids and animals and my parents and siblings, I have no issue being loving though.
I don't have urges to have sex with or help my husband anymore. Frequently, when he seems overly emotional (to me) or overwhelmed, I just wish he would toughen up. I realize this isn't an empathetic response. For example:
-he sometimes has nightmares that he cries from and wants me to rub his back to go back to sleep. I feel upset that he woke me up to tell it to me and that he can't self-soothe.
-He feels wounded when I point out different reasons, etc. For example, I think we may be having a good philosophical discussion where we disagree, and he thinks we are fighting even though no voices or put-downs occur. Any disagreement=we are fighting to him. So I just don't talk and do my own thing because having deep philosophical discussions out loud isn't very important to me. It is fun, but I am also ok with just reading an article by myself.
-often times I want to decompress after work in silence and he talks a mile a minute (his way to decompress), even though I just give "uh huh, sure, oh really?" responces, he keeps going. He sometimes complains I am not listening but I point out that his way to decompress shouldn't be valued over my way to decompress.
-He is often exhausted or spent to the point he can't do anything. I have pointed out that working a standard 40 hr work week is something everyone has to do but he is always dead tired from it and likes to describe how dead tired he is often in great detail. It does annoy me because we work the same job and I am not dead tired. I just feel by this point we should accept work is part of life and move on.
-Monetarily he asks money from his parents a lot. They always give. This is a turn off to me. We make the exact same salary and work the same job and I am able to live within my means and he cannot. He has asked that I take care of the money and put him on an allowance but that makes me respect him less (I am fine with joint accounts, not fine with the allowance part. Since he can't manage his money well, we have separate accounts for now). SO right now it feels like two different economies in our house. One where I count all my dollars and he really doesn't have to because his parent will give money to him if he asks. I have asked his parents not to give money, that maybe tough love is needed. They wouldn't agree to that but were understanding and said they definitely see my side.
-CLeaning wise he thinks i am not neat enough. I am not. I am fine with houses being happily lived in and it's really hard for me to get with the program there, but I am trying when I remember specifics he wants.
-Daydreaming, he daydreams and texts and tells me these ideas on other jobs he can do, most more time consuming than our current one. When I tell him I am not sure because he is physically and mentally exhausted from this job, he feels I am not supporting his ideas. By the way, he loves his current job too. Just feels more spent than I do.
Like me, he is on meds and he is up to date on them and does talk therapy. For the tiredness, he has been checked out and is fine. He is actually the most kind person I have met and everyone loves him. He sincerely cares about people.
I don't know MeFi. I just feel like I can't give him the amount of emotional support he craves. I think I am a horrible wife and feel very disinterested...how can I get more "into" it?
-
Hello! This was my first stab at being open:
How to be content in a new marriage?
I didn't put a lot of details but the things I did all still apply:
-Have been to therapy
-I know I am not self-actualized
-still daydream by looking up one bedroom apartments
-have been engaged 3 times before this (to 3 different men) but always called off wedding. I did not have the feeling to run before my marriage and did it, and I don't have the feeling to run now but more a "apathetic go through the motions life"
-I am on anti depressants/anti anxiety meds
Anyways.
I used to be a very in-touch emotional person. After my 2nd engagement ended, I decided to grow a backbone and not sweat or coddle anyone's problems and looking back, perhaps I went too much the other way. I don't know how to get to a happy medium: of having a backbone but being a loving person. With kids and animals and my parents and siblings, I have no issue being loving though.
I don't have urges to have sex with or help my husband anymore. Frequently, when he seems overly emotional (to me) or overwhelmed, I just wish he would toughen up. I realize this isn't an empathetic response. For example:
-he sometimes has nightmares that he cries from and wants me to rub his back to go back to sleep. I feel upset that he woke me up to tell it to me and that he can't self-soothe.
-He feels wounded when I point out different reasons, etc. For example, I think we may be having a good philosophical discussion where we disagree, and he thinks we are fighting even though no voices or put-downs occur. Any disagreement=we are fighting to him. So I just don't talk and do my own thing because having deep philosophical discussions out loud isn't very important to me. It is fun, but I am also ok with just reading an article by myself.
-often times I want to decompress after work in silence and he talks a mile a minute (his way to decompress), even though I just give "uh huh, sure, oh really?" responces, he keeps going. He sometimes complains I am not listening but I point out that his way to decompress shouldn't be valued over my way to decompress.
-He is often exhausted or spent to the point he can't do anything. I have pointed out that working a standard 40 hr work week is something everyone has to do but he is always dead tired from it and likes to describe how dead tired he is often in great detail. It does annoy me because we work the same job and I am not dead tired. I just feel by this point we should accept work is part of life and move on.
-Monetarily he asks money from his parents a lot. They always give. This is a turn off to me. We make the exact same salary and work the same job and I am able to live within my means and he cannot. He has asked that I take care of the money and put him on an allowance but that makes me respect him less (I am fine with joint accounts, not fine with the allowance part. Since he can't manage his money well, we have separate accounts for now). SO right now it feels like two different economies in our house. One where I count all my dollars and he really doesn't have to because his parent will give money to him if he asks. I have asked his parents not to give money, that maybe tough love is needed. They wouldn't agree to that but were understanding and said they definitely see my side.
-CLeaning wise he thinks i am not neat enough. I am not. I am fine with houses being happily lived in and it's really hard for me to get with the program there, but I am trying when I remember specifics he wants.
-Daydreaming, he daydreams and texts and tells me these ideas on other jobs he can do, most more time consuming than our current one. When I tell him I am not sure because he is physically and mentally exhausted from this job, he feels I am not supporting his ideas. By the way, he loves his current job too. Just feels more spent than I do.
Like me, he is on meds and he is up to date on them and does talk therapy. For the tiredness, he has been checked out and is fine. He is actually the most kind person I have met and everyone loves him. He sincerely cares about people.
I don't know MeFi. I just feel like I can't give him the amount of emotional support he craves. I think I am a horrible wife and feel very disinterested...how can I get more "into" it?
-
Is there anything you like about this guy other than "he's nice" and "everyone else thinks he's nice?"
It sounds to me like you really wanted to be married, not married TO HIM. (I assume you weren't living together before the wedding... )
posted by kingdead at 6:20 AM on May 12, 2018 [3 favorites]
It sounds to me like you really wanted to be married, not married TO HIM. (I assume you weren't living together before the wedding... )
posted by kingdead at 6:20 AM on May 12, 2018 [3 favorites]
Do you like him?
posted by warriorqueen at 6:27 AM on May 12, 2018 [10 favorites]
posted by warriorqueen at 6:27 AM on May 12, 2018 [10 favorites]
The things you're describing would annoy me too if they all happened at the same time. Giving a grown adult an allowance?! When you live on the same salary and his is supplemented with handouts? That would enrage me, personally.
It sounds like you're pretty self-sufficient and he's naturally more dependent, and you find that a turn-off, especially when it happens in multiple areas of his life (money, sleep, planning, decompression... he needs you as a valve, and that's not how you want to interact).
That's ok. It might mean you're not a good match. Therapy together might help, worth trying that first. But ultimately... it's also ok if the best answer is just to "not be married to this person any more".
posted by pseudostrabismus at 6:35 AM on May 12, 2018 [2 favorites]
It sounds like you're pretty self-sufficient and he's naturally more dependent, and you find that a turn-off, especially when it happens in multiple areas of his life (money, sleep, planning, decompression... he needs you as a valve, and that's not how you want to interact).
That's ok. It might mean you're not a good match. Therapy together might help, worth trying that first. But ultimately... it's also ok if the best answer is just to "not be married to this person any more".
posted by pseudostrabismus at 6:35 AM on May 12, 2018 [2 favorites]
Response by poster: I'm sorry to page sit. I realize from initial question that it appears I dislike my husband. My initial post focused on the negative however and I realize that gives an incomplete picture.
-I didn't marry him just to marry, I left three engagements before and was not afraid to leave a forth.
-I was the one who initially asked him out and pursued him. He has this attractive quality I can't put a finger on but when I met him I knew immediately that he was special and wanted to be with him.
-He is kind and loving and gives a 110%.
-He is interesting and creative
-He would give his shirt off his back to you, a complete stranger.
-I do like him, I did live with him a year before engagement. I knew these things about him but it seems after marriage it has become more aggravating and I don't know why.
I realize life can be frustrating. I am writing because I feel horrible that I am frustrated with him.
posted by ilyilynot at 6:35 AM on May 12, 2018 [1 favorite]
-I didn't marry him just to marry, I left three engagements before and was not afraid to leave a forth.
-I was the one who initially asked him out and pursued him. He has this attractive quality I can't put a finger on but when I met him I knew immediately that he was special and wanted to be with him.
-He is kind and loving and gives a 110%.
-He is interesting and creative
-He would give his shirt off his back to you, a complete stranger.
-I do like him, I did live with him a year before engagement. I knew these things about him but it seems after marriage it has become more aggravating and I don't know why.
I realize life can be frustrating. I am writing because I feel horrible that I am frustrated with him.
posted by ilyilynot at 6:35 AM on May 12, 2018 [1 favorite]
From your description, he doesn’t sound like a mature adult at all. The bottom line is that he makes his needs into other people’s responsibilities—he wakes YOU up to soothe him from nightmares, he won’t manage his own money and wants you and his parents to do it for him, he complains when you’re not meeting his needs but feels attacked every time you disagree or point out the practicalities of his daydreams. He expects you to behave a certain way to support him as a spouse, but has excuses for why he shouldn’t be expected to support you as a spouse the way you would prefer.
And...yeah. You don’t want to have sex with him because he acts like a child. It’s a documented thing that when a woman is obligated to “parent” her partner, she loses desire for the partner.
Some of these may be fair expectations of you, and could be worked out with discussion and effort (the cleaning, for example, or the decompressing disparity) but you should ask yourself where the center of the relationship dynamic is. Does he provide you with emotional support and help when you need it? If you have a problem that you need to process out loud, does he listen and validate you? Is he willing to compromise or take on a duty you really don’t like in exchange for you taking on a duty he doesn’t like? For example, would it work if, say, he did the lion’s share of cleaning in exchange for you doing the lion’s share of the budgeting? Could you complement each other in areas like this?
Or is his expectation of the relationship that you be there for him, to decompress at and listen to his daydreams and soothe his nightmares and meet his expectations, but that he doesn’t have to be there for you in the same way?
I’m certainly not going to claim that I’m the most emotionally healthy person around, but I’ve dated high-maintenance guys like this before and I just couldn’t tolerate it. It’s one thing to be more emotionally in touch, but I can’t deal with a partner who needs me to be his mother. You are not the only one who is aggravated by this dynamic.
posted by Autumnheart at 6:37 AM on May 12, 2018 [25 favorites]
Have you talked to him about any of this? I imagine it might be hard for him to hear this kind of feedback, even if you mustered up all the empathy you could in telling him this (the example re: philosophical discussion seems predictive of a defensive response from him). And maybe you're already aware of this, and are afraid you'll come off too strong and provoke that kind of response from him. I'm not sure that strangers on the internet can really meaningfully address your relationship issues; only he and you together can do that. (But these habits of his do sound annoying, especially the money thing and his aversion to disagreement).
Since you're both in individual therapy for yourselves, would you consider adding in a couple's therapist for the two of you together? It might become a place where the two of you can learn to productively communicate and address these issues as a team.
posted by obliterati at 6:42 AM on May 12, 2018 [1 favorite]
Since you're both in individual therapy for yourselves, would you consider adding in a couple's therapist for the two of you together? It might become a place where the two of you can learn to productively communicate and address these issues as a team.
posted by obliterati at 6:42 AM on May 12, 2018 [1 favorite]
Do you love him?
posted by Salamander at 6:47 AM on May 12, 2018 [5 favorites]
posted by Salamander at 6:47 AM on May 12, 2018 [5 favorites]
How do you feel about yourself? Do you like and respect yourself? Is it your habit to project your internal conflicts about yourself onto your romantic partners?
Because, yeah. The disrespect for your husband really jumps off the page, as does the pattern of dissatisfaction with previous romantic partners. Is it about you or your partners?
posted by Doc_Sock at 6:51 AM on May 12, 2018 [15 favorites]
Because, yeah. The disrespect for your husband really jumps off the page, as does the pattern of dissatisfaction with previous romantic partners. Is it about you or your partners?
posted by Doc_Sock at 6:51 AM on May 12, 2018 [15 favorites]
It seems like you don't have a lot of respect for him and are tipping more towards contempt. Respect is earned by one person doing things that another person lauds. And contempt can be tallied by one person doing things another person resents or denigrates. It's not a single axis, RESPECT <> CONTEMPT, but you definitely seem to be more on the contempt side.
It seems like maybe this guy, who needs a lot of handling, and depends on handouts from his parents, expects the house to be clean (but maybe doesn't contribute much to cleaning it?) maybe never had to deal with being on his own and seeing to his own self care? He may still be kind of a child. It would be pretty hard for me to respect someone like that.
It's hard to love someone you don't respect. There's nothing wrong with not respecting him; though there's something a little silly about staying in a relationship with someone you don't respect. Did you ever respect him? Does he do things that you admire / care about? Or does the constant neediness just seem to get in the way?
The question about love is relevant, and twoo wuv can forgive a lot of silly behaviour, but if you don't respect someone, the shine is going to wear off really fast.
What would you respect in a partner? Have you met someone who is like that? Definitely some questions to ask yourself in consultation with your therapist.
posted by seanmpuckett at 6:53 AM on May 12, 2018 [4 favorites]
It seems like maybe this guy, who needs a lot of handling, and depends on handouts from his parents, expects the house to be clean (but maybe doesn't contribute much to cleaning it?) maybe never had to deal with being on his own and seeing to his own self care? He may still be kind of a child. It would be pretty hard for me to respect someone like that.
It's hard to love someone you don't respect. There's nothing wrong with not respecting him; though there's something a little silly about staying in a relationship with someone you don't respect. Did you ever respect him? Does he do things that you admire / care about? Or does the constant neediness just seem to get in the way?
The question about love is relevant, and twoo wuv can forgive a lot of silly behaviour, but if you don't respect someone, the shine is going to wear off really fast.
What would you respect in a partner? Have you met someone who is like that? Definitely some questions to ask yourself in consultation with your therapist.
posted by seanmpuckett at 6:53 AM on May 12, 2018 [4 favorites]
SO right now it feels like two different economies in our house...
The scenario you describe would drive me nuts. If you are not ready to walk, try to clear this up. Go to a financial planner and see if you are making enough money to live-- and save/invest appropriately-- without parental subsidy, and then address it by either a) telling his parents you don't need money from them or b) taking money from them only for specific things and hopefully things that pertain to the both of you. But he needs to know, the bank of Mom and Dad is not going to stay open forever.
If he can't deal with making a financial plan, then this is not a good sign. If he can, this might reassure you in terms of being able to work on the relationship more generally.
posted by BibiRose at 7:00 AM on May 12, 2018 [1 favorite]
The scenario you describe would drive me nuts. If you are not ready to walk, try to clear this up. Go to a financial planner and see if you are making enough money to live-- and save/invest appropriately-- without parental subsidy, and then address it by either a) telling his parents you don't need money from them or b) taking money from them only for specific things and hopefully things that pertain to the both of you. But he needs to know, the bank of Mom and Dad is not going to stay open forever.
If he can't deal with making a financial plan, then this is not a good sign. If he can, this might reassure you in terms of being able to work on the relationship more generally.
posted by BibiRose at 7:00 AM on May 12, 2018 [1 favorite]
It sounds to me like you've fallen into a trap that's very common in hetero pairings--you're organizing things and taking care of things, and he would like to be one of the things you're taking care of. I think that a lot of people get married expecting that their partner, when in a joint household, will step up to the plate and compromise--that they'll be a responsible adult, and you'll be a responsible adult, and you'll be roughly equal partners. That doesn't sound like it's what you got, though.
You're expected to do the finances, and give him an allowance so he doesn't have to learn how to operate as a financially responsible adult. You're expected to sooth him through his nightmares at the expense of your own sleep. You're expected to help him decompress at the expense of your own ability to do so. You're expected to compromise about your preferred living situations (though he's presumably compromising some about this, one hopes). You're expected to have deep philosophical conversations with him, but only if you're in total agreement with everything he says.
I've been in this relationship, and I hated it. He sounds like he's very depressed or very immature and not handling it well, and you sound like someone who's been as supportive as you can be, but still find that it's not enough, and you're perpetually expected to sacrifice your needs and wants on the altar of his feelings.
I suspect strongly that this isn't a thing that you, personally, can fix. Unless you're misrepresenting things pretty dramatically here, this sounds to me like something that he has to want to fix, and then has to actually make steps towards fixing. He has to learn to have a conversation in which you disagree. He has to learn basic money management skills. He has to learn to self sooth. He has to learn how to decompress without you to act as a steam release valve.
And all of those things are probably possible, but they have to be things that he does, not that you do. You can force yourself to seem happier and more available and have sex no matter what and support all his wild fantasies and have a secret backup bank account for when he runs out of money, and he'll feel like things are better, but you'll lose yourself in the process. You need to either have a serious talk with him about this, or you need to cut your losses and leave. This isn't a situation that you can make better by force of willpower.
posted by mishafletch at 7:19 AM on May 12, 2018 [14 favorites]
You're expected to do the finances, and give him an allowance so he doesn't have to learn how to operate as a financially responsible adult. You're expected to sooth him through his nightmares at the expense of your own sleep. You're expected to help him decompress at the expense of your own ability to do so. You're expected to compromise about your preferred living situations (though he's presumably compromising some about this, one hopes). You're expected to have deep philosophical conversations with him, but only if you're in total agreement with everything he says.
I've been in this relationship, and I hated it. He sounds like he's very depressed or very immature and not handling it well, and you sound like someone who's been as supportive as you can be, but still find that it's not enough, and you're perpetually expected to sacrifice your needs and wants on the altar of his feelings.
I suspect strongly that this isn't a thing that you, personally, can fix. Unless you're misrepresenting things pretty dramatically here, this sounds to me like something that he has to want to fix, and then has to actually make steps towards fixing. He has to learn to have a conversation in which you disagree. He has to learn basic money management skills. He has to learn to self sooth. He has to learn how to decompress without you to act as a steam release valve.
And all of those things are probably possible, but they have to be things that he does, not that you do. You can force yourself to seem happier and more available and have sex no matter what and support all his wild fantasies and have a secret backup bank account for when he runs out of money, and he'll feel like things are better, but you'll lose yourself in the process. You need to either have a serious talk with him about this, or you need to cut your losses and leave. This isn't a situation that you can make better by force of willpower.
posted by mishafletch at 7:19 AM on May 12, 2018 [14 favorites]
I'm not going to focus on his flaws here, because they don't really sound very unusual and in many partnerships are not destructive at all, just garden variety relationship problems that are eminently responsive to problem-solving.
Instead, I'm going to suggest that you sound a bit like someone who's carrying around some PTSD. In particular, the values of toughness/independence you have internalized, and your belief that he's not tough enough, can be indicators of that, along with anxiety/depression and emotional detachment. Trauma does not have to be objectively extreme or dramatic to affect you in this way - it can be caused by long-term, low-level stressors too.
You say you have been in therapy but not that you are in therapy right now. Are you? This is a question to bring to a pro.
posted by Miko at 7:20 AM on May 12, 2018 [30 favorites]
Instead, I'm going to suggest that you sound a bit like someone who's carrying around some PTSD. In particular, the values of toughness/independence you have internalized, and your belief that he's not tough enough, can be indicators of that, along with anxiety/depression and emotional detachment. Trauma does not have to be objectively extreme or dramatic to affect you in this way - it can be caused by long-term, low-level stressors too.
You say you have been in therapy but not that you are in therapy right now. Are you? This is a question to bring to a pro.
posted by Miko at 7:20 AM on May 12, 2018 [30 favorites]
I don't think you sound like you have PTSD. I think you sound like you don't respect your husband.
When the first excitement of new romance wears off, and the long term reality of making a life together replaces it, respect is key. It is at least as fundamental as affection or physical attraction. It's what keeps the partnership going during those times when you're irritated with each other, when things aren't going smoothly enough to feel loving: at least you can feel safe. But you can't be safe with, you can't -trust- someone, that you don't respect; you're automatically going to be looking to protect yourself from their poor judgment, etc.
I gotta tell you, we have some folks here on the green who post about their marriages to people they don't respect and it sounds just awful. Very quickly the spouse becomes just another burden to manage, and of course it's compounded when there are kids in the mix.
I think you should divorce this guy. I really do. If it were just an isolated thing like "my guy isn't as good with money as I am, but I feel weird about putting him on an allowance" but he was otherwise someone you respected, you'd never have written this question.
posted by fingersandtoes at 8:08 AM on May 12, 2018 [10 favorites]
When the first excitement of new romance wears off, and the long term reality of making a life together replaces it, respect is key. It is at least as fundamental as affection or physical attraction. It's what keeps the partnership going during those times when you're irritated with each other, when things aren't going smoothly enough to feel loving: at least you can feel safe. But you can't be safe with, you can't -trust- someone, that you don't respect; you're automatically going to be looking to protect yourself from their poor judgment, etc.
I gotta tell you, we have some folks here on the green who post about their marriages to people they don't respect and it sounds just awful. Very quickly the spouse becomes just another burden to manage, and of course it's compounded when there are kids in the mix.
I think you should divorce this guy. I really do. If it were just an isolated thing like "my guy isn't as good with money as I am, but I feel weird about putting him on an allowance" but he was otherwise someone you respected, you'd never have written this question.
posted by fingersandtoes at 8:08 AM on May 12, 2018 [10 favorites]
To me, the beauty of being married, is that there is another human on the planet who has your back as much as you have your own and that you can be vulnerable with.
If you two are partners...
>-he sometimes has nightmares that he cries from and wants me to rub his back to go back to sleep. I feel upset >that he woke me up to tell it to me and that he can't self-soothe.
He needs your help. Rub his back in the moment, but in the following days, kindly say to him, "honey, I'm worried about your nightmares. We need to work on this. I want you to work on things you can do to help get yourself back to sleep. This is especially concerning for me because when you wake up, it wakes me up, and I can't get back to sleep either. Let's google around for some ways to help you get yourself back to sleep after a nightmare."
>-He feels wounded when I point out different reasons, etc. For example, I think we may be having a good >philosophical discussion where we disagree, and he thinks we are fighting even though no voices or put-downs >occur. Any disagreement=we are fighting to him. So I just don't talk and do my own thing because having deep >philosophical discussions out loud isn't very important to me. It is fun, but I am also ok with just reading an >article by myself.
Yeah, different people have different sense of what is fighting/yelling/etc. Overtime many couples learn to match each other. Both of you need to work on this. You need to be more sensitive to his sensitivity and when having a discussion, really watch your tone of voice, etc. And calmly explain to him (in a different moment) that sometimes you get a little loud/aggressive/whatever during a discussion and that it isn't a slight against him. Making him aware that you have this tendency and that you are working on it will help.
>-often times I want to decompress after work in silence and he talks a mile a minute (his way to decompress), >even though I just give "uh huh, sure, oh really?" responces, he keeps going. He sometimes complains I am not >listening but I point out that his way to decompress shouldn't be valued over my way to decompress.
So make something works for both of you - make a deal that for the first ~15 or whatever minutes after you get home, that you want to be by yourself, but that after that ~15 minutes is up, you two will sit down and share about your days. Also do you need to decompress in the house? Maybe you could go for a walk before you enter the house?
>-He is often exhausted or spent to the point he can't do anything. I have pointed out that working a standard 40 >hr work week is something everyone has to do but he is always dead tired from it and likes to describe how dead >tired he is often in great detail. It does annoy me because we work the same job and I am not dead tired. I just >feel by this point we should accept work is part of life and move on.
If he is tired, he is tired. It doesn't matter if he worked 40 hours, 10 hours, or 100 hours. His feeling tired is valid. Also, people are different, and jobs are different. 2 hours of being a trauma nurse is probably as exhausting as 10 hours of being an accountant or whatever. You're invalidating his feelings. Next time he says "I am so tired" be sympathetic and ask what you can do to help. This situation seems strange that when you need something (to decompress) you're upset that he wants to talk but when he needs something (to vent about being tired), you're upset.
>-Monetarily he asks money from his parents a lot. They always give. This is a turn off to me. We make the exact >same salary and work the same job and I am able to live within my means and he cannot. He has asked that I >take care of the money and put him on an allowance but that makes me respect him less (I am fine with joint >accounts, not fine with the allowance part. Since he can't manage his money well, we have separate accounts >for now). SO right now it feels like two different economies in our house. One where I count all my dollars and he >really doesn't have to because his parent will give money to him if he asks. I have asked his parents not to give >money, that maybe tough love is needed. They wouldn't agree to that but were understanding and said they >definitely see my side.
Money is a tough one as everyone has different feelings about how to manage it. But it sounds like you all aren't collectively managing well. Maybe you guys can set up a plan where you figure out what you NEED each month (rent, utilities, etc.) and you set up your paychecks to evenly go into a bank account for that. Then the rest is your own money?
And you guys need to talk about spending rules. For example, if either of you wants to spend over $150 on something, they need to check in with the other person or something.
You might be in 2 different economies in your home, but legally you're not. Any debt he acquires is your responsibility too, so it is in your best interest to work this out with him.
Regarding his parents, you're benefiting from that too. If he didn't have his parents giving him money he might want to take it from you.
>-CLeaning wise he thinks i am not neat enough. I am not. I am fine with houses being happily lived in and it's >really hard for me to get with the program there, but I am trying when I remember specifics he wants.
Yeah, people have to compromise on this too. One "solution" is to get a monthly or 2x a month cleaning service. This takes the less fun chores (cleaning toilet, mopping, dusting) out of the equation. This is often money well spent.
But if it is about tidying - like leaving dishes out or whatever, you two have to compromise. You need to be decent - like dishes are only in the sink for a day, laundry is not put away for a day, whatever. And he has to know that you're working on it.
Also in terms of responsibility, Gottman and others have these chore list charts. Make a list of all the stuff that needs to be done and each take some responsibilities. If you hate laundry but don't mind grocery shopping, do that one.
>-Daydreaming, he daydreams and texts and tells me these ideas on other jobs he can do, most more time >consuming than our current one. When I tell him I am not sure because he is physically and mentally exhausted >from this job, he feels I am not supporting his ideas. By the way, he loves his current job too. Just feels more >spent than I do.
Again, your job as a partner is to be supportive. Think about why he is daydreaming (he doesn't like particular aspects) and just nod.
posted by k8t at 8:29 AM on May 12, 2018 [29 favorites]
If you two are partners...
>-he sometimes has nightmares that he cries from and wants me to rub his back to go back to sleep. I feel upset >that he woke me up to tell it to me and that he can't self-soothe.
He needs your help. Rub his back in the moment, but in the following days, kindly say to him, "honey, I'm worried about your nightmares. We need to work on this. I want you to work on things you can do to help get yourself back to sleep. This is especially concerning for me because when you wake up, it wakes me up, and I can't get back to sleep either. Let's google around for some ways to help you get yourself back to sleep after a nightmare."
>-He feels wounded when I point out different reasons, etc. For example, I think we may be having a good >philosophical discussion where we disagree, and he thinks we are fighting even though no voices or put-downs >occur. Any disagreement=we are fighting to him. So I just don't talk and do my own thing because having deep >philosophical discussions out loud isn't very important to me. It is fun, but I am also ok with just reading an >article by myself.
Yeah, different people have different sense of what is fighting/yelling/etc. Overtime many couples learn to match each other. Both of you need to work on this. You need to be more sensitive to his sensitivity and when having a discussion, really watch your tone of voice, etc. And calmly explain to him (in a different moment) that sometimes you get a little loud/aggressive/whatever during a discussion and that it isn't a slight against him. Making him aware that you have this tendency and that you are working on it will help.
>-often times I want to decompress after work in silence and he talks a mile a minute (his way to decompress), >even though I just give "uh huh, sure, oh really?" responces, he keeps going. He sometimes complains I am not >listening but I point out that his way to decompress shouldn't be valued over my way to decompress.
So make something works for both of you - make a deal that for the first ~15 or whatever minutes after you get home, that you want to be by yourself, but that after that ~15 minutes is up, you two will sit down and share about your days. Also do you need to decompress in the house? Maybe you could go for a walk before you enter the house?
>-He is often exhausted or spent to the point he can't do anything. I have pointed out that working a standard 40 >hr work week is something everyone has to do but he is always dead tired from it and likes to describe how dead >tired he is often in great detail. It does annoy me because we work the same job and I am not dead tired. I just >feel by this point we should accept work is part of life and move on.
If he is tired, he is tired. It doesn't matter if he worked 40 hours, 10 hours, or 100 hours. His feeling tired is valid. Also, people are different, and jobs are different. 2 hours of being a trauma nurse is probably as exhausting as 10 hours of being an accountant or whatever. You're invalidating his feelings. Next time he says "I am so tired" be sympathetic and ask what you can do to help. This situation seems strange that when you need something (to decompress) you're upset that he wants to talk but when he needs something (to vent about being tired), you're upset.
>-Monetarily he asks money from his parents a lot. They always give. This is a turn off to me. We make the exact >same salary and work the same job and I am able to live within my means and he cannot. He has asked that I >take care of the money and put him on an allowance but that makes me respect him less (I am fine with joint >accounts, not fine with the allowance part. Since he can't manage his money well, we have separate accounts >for now). SO right now it feels like two different economies in our house. One where I count all my dollars and he >really doesn't have to because his parent will give money to him if he asks. I have asked his parents not to give >money, that maybe tough love is needed. They wouldn't agree to that but were understanding and said they >definitely see my side.
Money is a tough one as everyone has different feelings about how to manage it. But it sounds like you all aren't collectively managing well. Maybe you guys can set up a plan where you figure out what you NEED each month (rent, utilities, etc.) and you set up your paychecks to evenly go into a bank account for that. Then the rest is your own money?
And you guys need to talk about spending rules. For example, if either of you wants to spend over $150 on something, they need to check in with the other person or something.
You might be in 2 different economies in your home, but legally you're not. Any debt he acquires is your responsibility too, so it is in your best interest to work this out with him.
Regarding his parents, you're benefiting from that too. If he didn't have his parents giving him money he might want to take it from you.
>-CLeaning wise he thinks i am not neat enough. I am not. I am fine with houses being happily lived in and it's >really hard for me to get with the program there, but I am trying when I remember specifics he wants.
Yeah, people have to compromise on this too. One "solution" is to get a monthly or 2x a month cleaning service. This takes the less fun chores (cleaning toilet, mopping, dusting) out of the equation. This is often money well spent.
But if it is about tidying - like leaving dishes out or whatever, you two have to compromise. You need to be decent - like dishes are only in the sink for a day, laundry is not put away for a day, whatever. And he has to know that you're working on it.
Also in terms of responsibility, Gottman and others have these chore list charts. Make a list of all the stuff that needs to be done and each take some responsibilities. If you hate laundry but don't mind grocery shopping, do that one.
>-Daydreaming, he daydreams and texts and tells me these ideas on other jobs he can do, most more time >consuming than our current one. When I tell him I am not sure because he is physically and mentally exhausted >from this job, he feels I am not supporting his ideas. By the way, he loves his current job too. Just feels more >spent than I do.
Again, your job as a partner is to be supportive. Think about why he is daydreaming (he doesn't like particular aspects) and just nod.
posted by k8t at 8:29 AM on May 12, 2018 [29 favorites]
Regarding his asking for an allowance. I see this as him saying "I know that I have a problem with spending. I'd like you, my partner, to help me with this."
Is this the BEST or most sustainable way for him to work on his overspending? Probably not. But it isn't outrageous. Lots of people I know do this to themselves with separate bank accounts.
posted by k8t at 9:40 AM on May 12, 2018 [7 favorites]
Is this the BEST or most sustainable way for him to work on his overspending? Probably not. But it isn't outrageous. Lots of people I know do this to themselves with separate bank accounts.
posted by k8t at 9:40 AM on May 12, 2018 [7 favorites]
All of these things - except asking for money from his parents - sound like normal marital things that people do for each other and I’d expect all of them could be worked out over time with communication and effort. It’s definitely not unusual for one partner to be in charge of the finances and determine what a practical amount of spending money is - but if that’s not something you’re comfortable with, find a different path for your marriage.
However, I notice that your specific question is about how to be more present and interested in your marriage. I have three suggestions.
1) put some effort into demonstrating affection to your husband. You may not feel loving all the time, but you can still behave in a loving way, and if you do this mindfully it will affect your relationship and feelings positively.
2) plan some exciting activities you can do with your partner. Something you can enjoy doing in each other’s company. Create some fun new memories. Go to a jazz festival or indoor sky diving or on a road trip.
3) make long term goals. Marriage is a partnership - what do you want to do together? Buy a house? Have kids? Travel? Make some goals together for things you both want and start working towards them - together. This will reinforce the team relationship. Marriage is awesome for having someone you like to hang out with, but it can also be about achieving things together.
posted by bq at 9:48 AM on May 12, 2018 [2 favorites]
However, I notice that your specific question is about how to be more present and interested in your marriage. I have three suggestions.
1) put some effort into demonstrating affection to your husband. You may not feel loving all the time, but you can still behave in a loving way, and if you do this mindfully it will affect your relationship and feelings positively.
2) plan some exciting activities you can do with your partner. Something you can enjoy doing in each other’s company. Create some fun new memories. Go to a jazz festival or indoor sky diving or on a road trip.
3) make long term goals. Marriage is a partnership - what do you want to do together? Buy a house? Have kids? Travel? Make some goals together for things you both want and start working towards them - together. This will reinforce the team relationship. Marriage is awesome for having someone you like to hang out with, but it can also be about achieving things together.
posted by bq at 9:48 AM on May 12, 2018 [2 favorites]
Honestly, if your partner wakes up crying from a nightmare and your response is not concern, but annoyance, I think the relationship is already over in every meaningful way.
posted by halation at 10:18 AM on May 12, 2018 [48 favorites]
posted by halation at 10:18 AM on May 12, 2018 [48 favorites]
I just feel like I can't give him the amount of emotional support he craves.
You describe him as someone who is very emotionally immature, needy, and self-centered. You, on the other hand, come across as pretty emotionally stable as well as fairly stoic, self-reliant, and at least somewhat introverted. All details aside, those are simply not compatible qualities for a healthy, long-term relationship between two adults who view each other as equal partners.
posted by the return of the thin white sock at 10:52 AM on May 12, 2018 [6 favorites]
You describe him as someone who is very emotionally immature, needy, and self-centered. You, on the other hand, come across as pretty emotionally stable as well as fairly stoic, self-reliant, and at least somewhat introverted. All details aside, those are simply not compatible qualities for a healthy, long-term relationship between two adults who view each other as equal partners.
posted by the return of the thin white sock at 10:52 AM on May 12, 2018 [6 favorites]
My partner is a similarly kind, gentle, and loving person with anxiety issues; and she requests reassurance from me a fair amount. Perhaps like you, my knee jerk response to this stuff can be frustration or annoyance, or wishing she’d “toughen up” and somehow not need me. Therapy has helped me understand why I’m having these reactions - generally for me, they’re covering up my own anxieties about feeling helpless.
Here are some questions I’d pose to you: did anyone ever describe you as too emotional or too sensitive? When were you told, explicitly or implicitly, that you needed to toughen up and stop relying on others? When have you been given the message that leaning on someone for reassurance is something “weak” people do?
Obviously I recommend addressing this stuff in therapy. I can’t know whether it’s also just that you’d be more compatible with someone better at self-soothing, or just someone different. The variance in responses points to the same question, too. But I agree with the folks who think that these traits of your husband’s are not necessarily dealbreakers.
posted by fast ein Maedchen at 10:58 AM on May 12, 2018 [10 favorites]
Here are some questions I’d pose to you: did anyone ever describe you as too emotional or too sensitive? When were you told, explicitly or implicitly, that you needed to toughen up and stop relying on others? When have you been given the message that leaning on someone for reassurance is something “weak” people do?
Obviously I recommend addressing this stuff in therapy. I can’t know whether it’s also just that you’d be more compatible with someone better at self-soothing, or just someone different. The variance in responses points to the same question, too. But I agree with the folks who think that these traits of your husband’s are not necessarily dealbreakers.
posted by fast ein Maedchen at 10:58 AM on May 12, 2018 [10 favorites]
He sometimes complains I am not listening but I point out
I have pointed out that working a standard 40 hr work week is something everyone has to do but he is always dead tired from it
what is the functional difference between the state you're in after work when you can't stand to hear his voice, and the state he's in after work when he's dead tired? he might say: working a 40 hour week and then coming home to be with your spouse is something everyone has to do, but you are always so 'exhausted or spent' that you can't pay attention to him. or he might not just say it but 'point it out,' as if it were an obvious fact and not his opinion and value system. that would be unfair, of course.
I have asked his parents not to give money, that maybe tough love is needed. They wouldn't agree to that but were understanding and said they definitely see my side.
Does he know you did this? You can always refuse to accept a gift offered to you. but you're maintaining separate finances (fine), refusing his requests to help in managing his own money (fine) -- and then this hard reverse on all those stances, going to his parents and asking them to cut him off, like you and they are on the same level of authority over him, a little boy. If you don't want to be his mom and put him on an allowance, don't try controlling his income like this. this is not something you can have both ways.
you could choose to divide labor up so that you're the household money manager and he's the household cleaner, if that seemed acceptable and equal to both of you. you certainly don't have to do that, and you sound like you don't want to, but you could. then, neither of you would have to resent the other's deficiencies in your own area of authority. but unless you have that agreement, interfering in his financial relationships is just not acceptable unless you thought he was exploiting or defrauding his parents. if you can't respect a man who accepts money as a gift, that is also fair and fine. leave him over it if it bothers you enough. but you can't go to his parents and tell them not to give him things, as if it's your right to keep him from receiving gifts you don't think he deserves. doesn't matter if it was only a one-time attempt and you respected their refusal, a mindset where that's acceptable is not sustainable in a marriage.
posted by queenofbithynia at 10:58 AM on May 12, 2018 [11 favorites]
I have pointed out that working a standard 40 hr work week is something everyone has to do but he is always dead tired from it
what is the functional difference between the state you're in after work when you can't stand to hear his voice, and the state he's in after work when he's dead tired? he might say: working a 40 hour week and then coming home to be with your spouse is something everyone has to do, but you are always so 'exhausted or spent' that you can't pay attention to him. or he might not just say it but 'point it out,' as if it were an obvious fact and not his opinion and value system. that would be unfair, of course.
I have asked his parents not to give money, that maybe tough love is needed. They wouldn't agree to that but were understanding and said they definitely see my side.
Does he know you did this? You can always refuse to accept a gift offered to you. but you're maintaining separate finances (fine), refusing his requests to help in managing his own money (fine) -- and then this hard reverse on all those stances, going to his parents and asking them to cut him off, like you and they are on the same level of authority over him, a little boy. If you don't want to be his mom and put him on an allowance, don't try controlling his income like this. this is not something you can have both ways.
you could choose to divide labor up so that you're the household money manager and he's the household cleaner, if that seemed acceptable and equal to both of you. you certainly don't have to do that, and you sound like you don't want to, but you could. then, neither of you would have to resent the other's deficiencies in your own area of authority. but unless you have that agreement, interfering in his financial relationships is just not acceptable unless you thought he was exploiting or defrauding his parents. if you can't respect a man who accepts money as a gift, that is also fair and fine. leave him over it if it bothers you enough. but you can't go to his parents and tell them not to give him things, as if it's your right to keep him from receiving gifts you don't think he deserves. doesn't matter if it was only a one-time attempt and you respected their refusal, a mindset where that's acceptable is not sustainable in a marriage.
posted by queenofbithynia at 10:58 AM on May 12, 2018 [11 favorites]
I recently left a five year relationship, after resolution of certain autism-linked issues left me suddenly able to perceive the deep contempt my partner held for me. It turned out that for the final 3 years they’d been airing their contempt with friends but then ignoring all of their advice and staying with me anyways. The contempt was for autism-linked concerns, but the outcomes for contempt are all terminal to a relationship. We were lucky, I suppose, that when I perceived the contempt I broke things off within a month; otherwise I don’t know how long we would have continued without ending it. Long-term contempt from my partner left deep emotional and confidence scars that I’m still healing from a year later; while we did love each other, in hindsight, I wish we’d split up when the contempt was just beginning.
(Also: In that final month where I could perceive her contempt, I dreamed of having a one bedroom house. I ended up with a 400 sq.ft apartment, and it’s been good for me beyond my wildest dreams. Not too much to clean, not too much rent. Don’t be afraid to chase that dream.)
posted by crysflame at 11:00 AM on May 12, 2018 [5 favorites]
(Also: In that final month where I could perceive her contempt, I dreamed of having a one bedroom house. I ended up with a 400 sq.ft apartment, and it’s been good for me beyond my wildest dreams. Not too much to clean, not too much rent. Don’t be afraid to chase that dream.)
posted by crysflame at 11:00 AM on May 12, 2018 [5 favorites]
> if your partner wakes up crying from a nightmare and your response is not concern, but annoyance, I think the relationship is already over in every meaningful way
This is an area where reasonable people can disagree. There isn't a right or wrong response (well, mockery would be wrong); the problem is that the two people involved have different expectations. If I woke up crying from a nightmare I would be freaked out for a minute or two, then read a book and go back to sleep. I wouldn't want Mr Corpse to help me process it, because it's just a nightmare and I'm not in a superhero movie. But other people might want to be held, or to talk it out, and if that's what both people in the bed think should be the reaction, then that's fine.
I recommend that you guys talk it over during the day. You explain how being woken up makes you cranky, he explains how being scared in the night makes him feel lonely (or whatever) and see if there's a compromise. Maybe he can snuggle up with you but not deliberately wake you up. Maybe if he's having nightmares frequently, he needs to figure out why.
posted by The corpse in the library at 11:09 AM on May 12, 2018 [4 favorites]
This is an area where reasonable people can disagree. There isn't a right or wrong response (well, mockery would be wrong); the problem is that the two people involved have different expectations. If I woke up crying from a nightmare I would be freaked out for a minute or two, then read a book and go back to sleep. I wouldn't want Mr Corpse to help me process it, because it's just a nightmare and I'm not in a superhero movie. But other people might want to be held, or to talk it out, and if that's what both people in the bed think should be the reaction, then that's fine.
I recommend that you guys talk it over during the day. You explain how being woken up makes you cranky, he explains how being scared in the night makes him feel lonely (or whatever) and see if there's a compromise. Maybe he can snuggle up with you but not deliberately wake you up. Maybe if he's having nightmares frequently, he needs to figure out why.
posted by The corpse in the library at 11:09 AM on May 12, 2018 [4 favorites]
I'm not sure this applies to you, but to throw out another possibility, since you both speak of loving him and of being very annoyed:
Sometimes people are attracted to people because they feel comfortable or familiar from their past but then start trying to work out the pains of their past via the new relationship.
Example: someone's father was never around. She feels attracted to an aloof workaholic in part because it feels similar to her familial relationship; that's what love feels like. But she is also very sensitive about this issue and gets really upset whenever he works late.
Anyway, not to get all Psychology 101 on you, you might talk to a therapist about this and/or get a couple's therapist with him. Most of these things sound like minor things that might be able to be overcome either by understanding why you're reacting to them the way you are or by talking to him about them.
One other thing to add to the mix. How's your mental health otherwise? A sign of depression is irritability.
posted by salvia at 11:16 AM on May 12, 2018 [2 favorites]
Sometimes people are attracted to people because they feel comfortable or familiar from their past but then start trying to work out the pains of their past via the new relationship.
Example: someone's father was never around. She feels attracted to an aloof workaholic in part because it feels similar to her familial relationship; that's what love feels like. But she is also very sensitive about this issue and gets really upset whenever he works late.
Anyway, not to get all Psychology 101 on you, you might talk to a therapist about this and/or get a couple's therapist with him. Most of these things sound like minor things that might be able to be overcome either by understanding why you're reacting to them the way you are or by talking to him about them.
One other thing to add to the mix. How's your mental health otherwise? A sign of depression is irritability.
posted by salvia at 11:16 AM on May 12, 2018 [2 favorites]
The main issue here is that you were fine with your partner before marriage, and became intensely annoyed and emotionally cut off after marriage. Your partner did not change, your issues with your partner did not change, your marital status changed.
I absolutely know people who have felt their responses to their partners change after marriage. It's not because of the partner, it's because of unconscious ideas about what a "husband" or "wife" should be. Like, a boyfriend can be vulnerable, tired, and bad with money, but a "husband" shouldn't.
(I know someone who lived with his girlfriend for 3 years. As soon as they were married he became infuriated that sh was a "bad housekeeper." She could barely believe it, but his internalized/family-of-origin beliefs about marriage permeated their relationship and made things toxic.)
SO... I think that since this is the one factor that has changed, you need to examine your deep-seated beliefs about what a husband is supposed to be, how ideas of masculinity attach themselves to "husband" but let a "boyfriend" be more of an individual. It would be great to do this in therapy if you can; if not it's still worth some deep introspection.
posted by velveeta underground at 11:17 AM on May 12, 2018 [15 favorites]
I absolutely know people who have felt their responses to their partners change after marriage. It's not because of the partner, it's because of unconscious ideas about what a "husband" or "wife" should be. Like, a boyfriend can be vulnerable, tired, and bad with money, but a "husband" shouldn't.
(I know someone who lived with his girlfriend for 3 years. As soon as they were married he became infuriated that sh was a "bad housekeeper." She could barely believe it, but his internalized/family-of-origin beliefs about marriage permeated their relationship and made things toxic.)
SO... I think that since this is the one factor that has changed, you need to examine your deep-seated beliefs about what a husband is supposed to be, how ideas of masculinity attach themselves to "husband" but let a "boyfriend" be more of an individual. It would be great to do this in therapy if you can; if not it's still worth some deep introspection.
posted by velveeta underground at 11:17 AM on May 12, 2018 [15 favorites]
Are you sure you want to be with a man? Not snark; honestly asking.
posted by TryTheTilapia at 11:23 AM on May 12, 2018 [3 favorites]
posted by TryTheTilapia at 11:23 AM on May 12, 2018 [3 favorites]
You dated for however long, you lived with him (possibly in the house you share now) and it's all different now?
Sounds like you.
Did you think things would be different when you were actually married, or did one of you change after the I do?
How is living with him as a wife different than life was when you were cohabitating?
If you think he changed, did he start having nightmares? Suddenly decide you should pick up after yourself?
posted by Lesser Shrew at 11:37 AM on May 12, 2018
Sounds like you.
Did you think things would be different when you were actually married, or did one of you change after the I do?
How is living with him as a wife different than life was when you were cohabitating?
If you think he changed, did he start having nightmares? Suddenly decide you should pick up after yourself?
posted by Lesser Shrew at 11:37 AM on May 12, 2018
You mention that you are "not self-actualized". If you're self-aware enough to know that, but also to know that something critical is missing, then you're struggling with something major, and you deserve to be able to work that out.
If you're fantasizing about living alone and know that something is missing within you, not just within your marriage, you should strongly consider a separation. That's a thing that people do to reevaluate their needs and desires in a safe space.
From my own personal experience, true love comes very naturally once you are committed. This is not to say to love is easy; it is to say that, with the right person, it does not feel like work. It does not feel like a chore to stay connected. It doesn't feel so difficult to find baseline caring. It feels more inevitable than that, more natural, even though it can be initially scary because of many of us fear intimacy that is at the core of real love.
Good luck.
posted by TryTheTilapia at 11:38 AM on May 12, 2018 [4 favorites]
If you're fantasizing about living alone and know that something is missing within you, not just within your marriage, you should strongly consider a separation. That's a thing that people do to reevaluate their needs and desires in a safe space.
From my own personal experience, true love comes very naturally once you are committed. This is not to say to love is easy; it is to say that, with the right person, it does not feel like work. It does not feel like a chore to stay connected. It doesn't feel so difficult to find baseline caring. It feels more inevitable than that, more natural, even though it can be initially scary because of many of us fear intimacy that is at the core of real love.
Good luck.
posted by TryTheTilapia at 11:38 AM on May 12, 2018 [4 favorites]
Came here to say what rock ‘em sock ‘em and trythetilapia said. Something to consider anyway.
posted by kapers at 12:12 PM on May 12, 2018
posted by kapers at 12:12 PM on May 12, 2018
I'm also married to gentle man who requires a lot of care and feeding (I haven't been woken up because of a nightmare, but I have been woken up to cuddle away some anxiety), and I'm also the more emotionally self-sufficient (or as some may say, chilly) person in the relationship. I also sometimes get annoyed, but what tempers it is that I regularly find myself impressed with some aspect of him: he'll do math really fast in his head or come up with a very funny joke or be able to bravely and effortlessly make a scary phone call on my behalf (I guess I also require care and feeding, just different care and feeding).
This helps me not see him as a helpless child, but rather see him as a quirky human whose quirks are different and, this is key, symbiotic with mine.
It doesn't sound like you and your husband are living in a symbiotic system. You can, though, if you want. It sounds like he needs you a lot. Do you need him? Can you need him?
posted by millipede at 12:28 PM on May 12, 2018 [9 favorites]
This helps me not see him as a helpless child, but rather see him as a quirky human whose quirks are different and, this is key, symbiotic with mine.
It doesn't sound like you and your husband are living in a symbiotic system. You can, though, if you want. It sounds like he needs you a lot. Do you need him? Can you need him?
posted by millipede at 12:28 PM on May 12, 2018 [9 favorites]
Just one aspect. You say your husband is on medication. Is he in competent care and have they explored different avenues? Appearing overly emotional, overwhelmed, taking disagreement as rejection, talking a lot, daydreaming, impulsive and disorganized spending, but needing a neat (not distracting) environment, sleep trouble, many ideas, being tired after a normal workload, all these are very common with ADHD. The nightmares and tiredness could also be a symptom of disturbed sleep, eg from sleep apnea. What looks annoying or immature to you and several of the commenters might not be an immutable personality trait but improve with the right treatment.
posted by meijusa at 12:33 PM on May 12, 2018 [5 favorites]
posted by meijusa at 12:33 PM on May 12, 2018 [5 favorites]
Response by poster: Thank you all for the advice so far. I am taking it to heart. Just two tidbits- one on sexual orientation- I identify as straight. My fantasies and attractions have always been male. Second in regards to PTSD- I haven’t had a major issue to warrant ptsd. I had garden variety heartbreak when younger but that’s it. In my first few relationships me being overly sensitive and emotional and anxious about letting the men I love out of my sight was a thing. I did cognitive behavioral therapy and really worked hard to not be dependent or dramatic (and yes it was dramatic- I would cry over hypotheticals). Meds and CBT really helped. I would say that I am now described as analytical and pragmatic.
posted by ilyilynot at 2:27 PM on May 12, 2018
posted by ilyilynot at 2:27 PM on May 12, 2018
I would say that the primary distinction here is that you recognized detrimental patterns in yourself, sought out treatment and learned to counter them in a healthy way. Whereas your husband is not doing that for himself for whatever reason, and furthermore putting the burden on you/his parents to do it for him. It would be good for him to find out why he does that, but the more immediate concern is that he does it, to the detriment of you and potentially his parents, unless they’re wealthy.
I think that at the minimum, it is time for a long talk to go over these conflicts and see if you can determine a way to compromise. Since he feels attacked in the face of this sort of discussion, I would suggest a marriage counselor to act as a mediator. It couldn’t hurt. If he’s not willing to hear things coming from you, he may respond better if he hears it from an objective third party, and you can also get a third-party perspective about your own expectations. Worst case scenario, you find out that he isn’t willing to become less dependent and you have an informed basis for your next move.
posted by Autumnheart at 2:59 PM on May 12, 2018
I think that at the minimum, it is time for a long talk to go over these conflicts and see if you can determine a way to compromise. Since he feels attacked in the face of this sort of discussion, I would suggest a marriage counselor to act as a mediator. It couldn’t hurt. If he’s not willing to hear things coming from you, he may respond better if he hears it from an objective third party, and you can also get a third-party perspective about your own expectations. Worst case scenario, you find out that he isn’t willing to become less dependent and you have an informed basis for your next move.
posted by Autumnheart at 2:59 PM on May 12, 2018
There may be underlying issues that are not fixable, but on the surface it sure sounds like y'all are awful at communicating with each other. Happily, this is the one thing that marriage counseling is actually for! You guys might learn to communicate well and then figure out for sure that you're a bad match, but that's preferable to just being irritated as shit all the time at the person who's supposed to be your partner.
posted by Lyn Never at 3:30 PM on May 12, 2018 [3 favorites]
posted by Lyn Never at 3:30 PM on May 12, 2018 [3 favorites]
Is your partner doing things that make you happy? Do you need gifts to feel happy or compliments. It sounds like you've lost that loving feeling and maybe you can specifically ask partner to do thing that makes you feel loved. Then you may feel less like smacking him and more able to compromise so that you both get some of what you need.
posted by Kalmya at 3:41 PM on May 12, 2018 [1 favorite]
posted by Kalmya at 3:41 PM on May 12, 2018 [1 favorite]
Is this one of those things where when a certain part of yourself was shamed or criticized or you felt like you had to cut that part out of you and turn away from it... when it appears in another person, you then reject it in them too? E.g., you used to cry in a sensitive way, and now you're critical and annoyed when he does?
posted by salvia at 5:27 PM on May 12, 2018 [7 favorites]
posted by salvia at 5:27 PM on May 12, 2018 [7 favorites]
(Continuing my thought...)
...You "really worked hard to not be dependent or dramatic" so now you're disgusted by the dependent and dramatic parts of him?
Is part of the solution to find a way to give those parts of yourself more compassion so that you can be compassionate to him, too? Or, do you want him to better understand why you made that change for yourself and why you want you guys as a couple to not be dependent on others?
posted by salvia at 5:32 PM on May 12, 2018 [12 favorites]
...You "really worked hard to not be dependent or dramatic" so now you're disgusted by the dependent and dramatic parts of him?
Is part of the solution to find a way to give those parts of yourself more compassion so that you can be compassionate to him, too? Or, do you want him to better understand why you made that change for yourself and why you want you guys as a couple to not be dependent on others?
posted by salvia at 5:32 PM on May 12, 2018 [12 favorites]
Just two tidbits- one on sexual orientation- I identify as straight. My fantasies and attractions have always been male.
Not to give you a hard time, but this is literally the first sentence of your question: I am a 33F who has been married to a 40F for 10 months.
I think that after 3 broken engagements to men and a marriage that you are, at best, disinclined to move towards a higher level of commitment (mortgage, children, shared finances) and, at worst, feel trapped and resentful of, you owe it to yourself to consider if you are interested in a) a romantic relationship with b) a man that leads to c) cohabitation or d) marriage. All of those things are negotiable,and none of them are required for any of the others or for you to have a happy life.
posted by Snarl Furillo at 12:14 AM on May 13, 2018 [2 favorites]
Not to give you a hard time, but this is literally the first sentence of your question: I am a 33F who has been married to a 40F for 10 months.
I think that after 3 broken engagements to men and a marriage that you are, at best, disinclined to move towards a higher level of commitment (mortgage, children, shared finances) and, at worst, feel trapped and resentful of, you owe it to yourself to consider if you are interested in a) a romantic relationship with b) a man that leads to c) cohabitation or d) marriage. All of those things are negotiable,and none of them are required for any of the others or for you to have a happy life.
posted by Snarl Furillo at 12:14 AM on May 13, 2018 [2 favorites]
How you are reacting sounds an awful lot like how I become when my own needs aren’t being met. I start to lash out at my partner over *everything.* I become intensely critical. Are your needs being met? If you don’t know your own needs, figure them out. Then, ask your partner to help you get there. Your husband should also be taking care of you. Give him a job.
posted by shalom at 1:02 AM on May 13, 2018 [1 favorite]
posted by shalom at 1:02 AM on May 13, 2018 [1 favorite]
If you formerly had issues of dependency in relationships and seemed tp have 'solved' them with CBT, you may still have unresolved feelings of neglect or abandonment that stem from childhood (CBT does not usually explore/resolve these things, focusing instead on practicable workarounds to try to rewrite feedback loops. Sometimes this isn't enough to address underlying issues). This could be supporting the PTSD-like reaction of withdrawal. As I mentioned, you don't need a large, extreme trauma to develop PTSD-like symptoms of detachment and repression of emotion. Again, if you're not now in therapy, singly, it would be recommended in this case, as well as perhaps couples therapy.
I would say that I am now described as analytical and pragmatic.
Another thought: have you been evaluated for adult Asperger's?
posted by Miko at 7:54 AM on May 13, 2018 [2 favorites]
I would say that I am now described as analytical and pragmatic.
Another thought: have you been evaluated for adult Asperger's?
posted by Miko at 7:54 AM on May 13, 2018 [2 favorites]
I think mishafletch hit it out of the ballpark, great answer.
Here's what I have to add, first about sleep and then generally:
I have a sleep disorder which includes both insomnia and frequent nightmares. I would never wake up a partner because I had a nightmare on purpose. If you haven't said to him "hey, I know you have nightmares, you can wake me up" then it's not okay for him to wake you up. He is 40 years old - what's he been doing when he was single? He can handle this himself, and expecting you to wake up with him when you haven't agreed to that is not okay.
In general I think he is really immature and wants a partner so he has someone to take care of him, like a lot of cis straight men seem to. The ways that you've described his expectation to prioritize his needs is really telling - he doesn't want to compromise, he wants a mommy who also provides sex.
I have no idea why it's different since you got married, but it could be something where the expectations have increased, or where you've just coincidentally hit the point where it's super aggravating when he should have understood that he needs to step it up, but whatever the reason is, you need to stop blaming yourself for not being enchanted with his immaturity. If you want to give him another chance to step up and be a partner to you, you can do that, but set a deadline and specific goals, don't move the goalposts, and if he doesn't meet them and stop demanding that you baby him, move on.
posted by bile and syntax at 8:35 AM on May 13, 2018
Here's what I have to add, first about sleep and then generally:
I have a sleep disorder which includes both insomnia and frequent nightmares. I would never wake up a partner because I had a nightmare on purpose. If you haven't said to him "hey, I know you have nightmares, you can wake me up" then it's not okay for him to wake you up. He is 40 years old - what's he been doing when he was single? He can handle this himself, and expecting you to wake up with him when you haven't agreed to that is not okay.
In general I think he is really immature and wants a partner so he has someone to take care of him, like a lot of cis straight men seem to. The ways that you've described his expectation to prioritize his needs is really telling - he doesn't want to compromise, he wants a mommy who also provides sex.
I have no idea why it's different since you got married, but it could be something where the expectations have increased, or where you've just coincidentally hit the point where it's super aggravating when he should have understood that he needs to step it up, but whatever the reason is, you need to stop blaming yourself for not being enchanted with his immaturity. If you want to give him another chance to step up and be a partner to you, you can do that, but set a deadline and specific goals, don't move the goalposts, and if he doesn't meet them and stop demanding that you baby him, move on.
posted by bile and syntax at 8:35 AM on May 13, 2018
A lot of what you describe sounds like SSRI-induced apathy. And possibly medication-related lack of empathy.
Has you changed antidepressants/anti-anxiety meds since getting married, or around the time of marriage? Both these emotional effects and sexual side effects are very common on antidepressants/anti-anxiety meds.
. . . As for the things that annoy you about your husband, the money thing, the nightmares thing -- yeah you knew all this before you married him. Maybe you just feel stuck now that you're legally bound? . . . I also found that some things about my beloved husband annoyed me more for a bit shortly after we married, but that evaporated fairly quickly (like a month).
posted by ElisaOS at 9:11 AM on July 13, 2018
Has you changed antidepressants/anti-anxiety meds since getting married, or around the time of marriage? Both these emotional effects and sexual side effects are very common on antidepressants/anti-anxiety meds.
. . . As for the things that annoy you about your husband, the money thing, the nightmares thing -- yeah you knew all this before you married him. Maybe you just feel stuck now that you're legally bound? . . . I also found that some things about my beloved husband annoyed me more for a bit shortly after we married, but that evaporated fairly quickly (like a month).
posted by ElisaOS at 9:11 AM on July 13, 2018
This thread is closed to new comments.
posted by Sweetie Darling at 6:12 AM on May 12, 2018 [28 favorites]