Try not to become a success, but rather try to become someone of value.

March 6, 2018 12:44 PM

How do I come to terms with my child having absolutely no interest in all in participating in any extra-curricular activities at his school?

Important: This question is about me. It is not about him.

My son (11, academically gifted, non-neurotypical) has zero interest in doing any of the dozens of super cool clubs and organizations offered afterschool at his very excellent school. No sports, no clubs, no organization -- all encouragement to get involved is met with a flat NO. He did participate in the invitation-only math team for about six or seven weeks, but then quit, saying it was all older kids and he didn't fit in.

Although I'm cool about it on the outside - I continue to encourage without pushing, reminding him of opportunities but not requiring him to join or get involved, offering small ways (I'll pick you up so you don't have to take the late bus) to make it easier - internally I'm flipping out.

Again, this is about me, not about him.

How do I get to a place where I'm at peace with this choice? He's a fantastic (and fast) runner who would do well in track, and track would, I think, help him by making him more physically active, but he is completely uninterested. Emails from the school tell me about the great things the math team is doing, and the cool places they're going, but he's not going with them because he quit. Drama sounds super fun and was a way for me to make friends, but he will not consider it. Model UN - no. Lego club - nope. Chess club - no. I'm heavily involved in post-Trump activism locally, and there is a March for our Lives chapter forming at his school -- would he like to go to the first meeting? No way.

His complete disinterest in participating in anything makes me by turns very sad and super frustrated. It is sometimes tempting to go all tiger mom on him and require a sport and a club each term, but I think that would end up being a miserable experience for anyone. On the other hand, having him sit at home in the afternoons is making me miserable. But at least its just me.

Too add to this, my son decided a couple of years ago (on his own, based on research for a class project about college aspirations) that he wants to attend University of Chicago. I totally support this goal, and we've talked about how its not just grades that matter in college admissions but showing that you are well rounded as a person. For a school like U of C this is especially true. I realize this is just middle school, but I suspect that if he doesn't get in the habit now of getting involved, it will only get more difficult as his cohort all get older, and they've all been doing things together for several years.

I realize that parenting advice on mefi is dicey at best, but I'm interested in knowing how other parents come to terms with this -- not just that their kid doesn't want to what they did but that their kid doesn't apparently want to do ANYTHING. Because right now I'm increasingly finding myself disappointed in him, and that's not the parent I want to be.

posted by anastasiav to Education (91 answers total)

I think you are well within your rights as a parent to require a sport. It's healthy to get outside and move and most kids need to be forced to do it. Completely normal and you are helping him build good habits for life, same as requiring chores and that he keeps his belongings and space in good shape and clean.

What does he do with his free time now? If it's all leisure activities on his terms and he never has to do anything he doesn't like or accommodate other humans into his day, I'd fix that asap. Chores, regular exercise, maintaining his clothing, belongings and beginning to take on more household tasks like helping care for pets or the yard are all important at that age. He also needs to learn to get along with others, even if he thinks he doesn't. Other kids and other adults.

I woukd have hated all those clubs as a kid and refused to participate too. I think hobbies are much more individual and more often found outside school. Which also introduces him to new people, a bonus. But kid needs some exercise and social interaction and requiring one sport of an 11 year old is a good idea.

If he spends all day outside helping you run your hobby farm and has delightful neighborhood friends ignore the above but I'm guessing that's not the case
posted by fshgrl at 12:53 PM on March 6, 2018 [5 favorites]

Why is it so important to you? You've given all the reasons you think he should be interested and they may or may not be valid, but why are you getting so emotionally invested in this?
posted by Gnella at 1:00 PM on March 6, 2018 [22 favorites]

Would it help to investigate more thoroughly WHY he’s not interested in anything? You might feel less disappointed if you have a better idea of where he’s coming from.
posted by bimbam at 1:00 PM on March 6, 2018 [12 favorites]

Best answer: I know the American tendency to push kids into extracurriculars starts earlier and earlier every year, but you have to keep telling yourself: little dude is only eleven years old. A lot of us, neurotypical and non-NT alike, really benefit from having unstructured time for thinking, dreaming, and non-organised play, particularly at such a young age. It's great to have so many options available for kids, but all those options can create a lot of pressure, too. When he gets to high school age, if he still hasn't picked up something extra-curricular (not necessarily through school), you can start having more talks about what admissions officers look for, and what his educational goals are, but eleven is still pretty early for those things. Social groups and individual interests will change a lot in those few years; the transition from middle school to high school often totally shakes up even established cliques. He will perhaps have some trouble if he wants to start a competitive activity kids begin at a really early age, like orchestra, but he will have no troubles falling in with the chess club or lego club or robot club or what-have-you. And if he has interests in those areas but doesn't want to pursue them through the school club system, that's fine too! Maybe he'd have more fun playing chess online and studying chess problems on his own, or teaching himself to code.

What is he doing with his after-school time at present? Computer stuff, games, reading, riding his bike? Just keep on giving him the space to do those things, and he'll figure out what he needs.

(And heck, maybe he's not actually *doing* anything! But, as a non-neurotypical kid myself, I really needed some unwinding time at the end of a school day, to chill out and have a snack and just kind of... be... in a quiet space. Especially between grades 6-9. Middle school is stressssssssssful. My middle school actually required all students to join a sport or club, and it went badly. Please don't do this, even if you're frustrated; it put me off clubs in high school, even clubs I'd have been interested in joining.)
posted by halation at 1:01 PM on March 6, 2018 [43 favorites]

Parent of a neurologically interesting kid here. For a neurotypical kid I might sign on to "require a sport and an instrument," but when I feel this way (and I do feel this way!) there are two lenses that help me:

1) Prioritization: your kid has some specific needs that have to be met, and meeting those needs takes up a lot of his energy. He may not have the energy to go so far outside of his comfort zone in this specific way as well, at least with the energy he'd need to get any benefit from it.

2) What does he like to do? Does he pursue his interests on his own time, in his own ways? Are there ways you can funnel him toward them? We have "Screen time break", which is ... what it sounds like, and cruelly forces our children to do crafts, earn money from chores, join us for a hike, practice large brass instruments (I am not joking) and talk incessantly.

3) Identify when those interests are actually my interests! Either because I am actually the one interested in needlepoint club, or because I'm the one with the adults-eye view of school, and wishing I'd taken advantage of more extracurriculars.
posted by chesty_a_arthur at 1:04 PM on March 6, 2018 [11 favorites]

THREE LENSES! And I actually deleted a fourth. Look at me, I'm a regular optometrist.
posted by chesty_a_arthur at 1:05 PM on March 6, 2018 [16 favorites]

There's a sweet little blog I look in on now and then, run by a woman in Australia. Recently she had a post about "advice I'd give to younger readers" - and something she said really stuck with me:

...know that fame and visible success are not the only goal. Living a gentle, fun, compassionate life is an excellent goal too. Not everybody has to know your name. Sometimes it’s better to just know yourself and have a few ace friends and family buddies and pets.

It sounds thus far like you've been the pro-active one in your relationship (you're the one who's going to him and asking "you wanna join the chess club?...No? How about the shop club?") instead of him being the one to come to you ("...Mom, can I take piano lessons?") Maybe let him be the one to come to you. Maybe let him know that "you know, I realize I've kinda been up in your case about getting you to join certain clubs, but from now on I'm gonna let you let me know when and if you want to do anything like that," and then back off.

Another thing to consider: it might be possible that he's not wanted to join in on other clubs because he's harboring a desire to join in on something you haven't mentioned yet, because he's afraid it's too weird. If that's the case, your continuing to suggest these other "normal" clubs may be making him more afraid. Which is all the more reason to say that "I just want you to be happy, and I realize I may be trying to persuade you to do things you may not want to. It's up to you, and I'll back off." Or whatever.
posted by EmpressCallipygos at 1:06 PM on March 6, 2018 [24 favorites]

I know this is about you and not him, but has he ever been evaluated for anxiety? Because this is a bit me, or was and has been at various points in my life where I felt a baseline level of different, weird, intimidated, overwhelmed by change. Extracurriculars require you to enter a whole different social milieu, with other kids that you normally don't associate with, and there's probably participants there who have been doing the thing for months/years/ever and it's scary as shit for a newcomer. I hated swim team despite being an excellent swimmer in part because competing is terrifying. Going to a swim meet is terrifying. There's rules and procedures and you go here and do that then go over there and wait and then you go to that place and how do you know when it's your turn and what your lane is and what if you do something wrong and that's not even getting into, like, losing your race in front of everyone. Same with any kind of activity where there's people who have been doing it for a while and then there's me, the newbie.


Anyway, what I'm saying is that it might help for you to reframe this as not him being stubborn or lazy but being anxious.
posted by soren_lorensen at 1:07 PM on March 6, 2018 [13 favorites]

Is your kid super into anything? Engines or bugs or baking?

Can you get him involved in other things in the community related to something he is truly passionate about? Colleges will be impressed with his ongoing creation of the bug collection at your local children's museum. Maybe you can switch to just encouraging a couple of his unique passions and try to get him involved anywhere?
posted by Kalmya at 1:08 PM on March 6, 2018

Response by poster: Why is it so important to you? You've given all the reasons you think he should be interested and they may or may not be valid, but why are you getting so emotionally invested in this?

I am aware that Ask is not for back and forth, but I do want to answer this:

Because I want him to grow up to be an interesting and well rounded person who thinks about the world. I want him to meet people that might be his friends, but also people who are different from him. I want him to have lots of new experiences. I want him to be willing to try stuff, and find stuff he likes. And stuff he doesn't like. And because I want him to be able to find things he'll both love and be successful at, but he'll never find them if he never tries any of them.
posted by anastasiav at 1:09 PM on March 6, 2018 [11 favorites]

What is the root of his disinterest. Is he anxious? Is he being teased, or afraid of being teased? Does he lack social skills, is he uncertain how to make friends? Does the activity itself bore him? Is this a phase where he is learning to assert "No." and thus his own independence? Does he need extra time to decompress? Does he prefer self-guided learning?

I was a shy, anxious kid. I found large groups intimidating and was dreadfully afraid of public attention. I really wanted more friends but I didn't click well with other kids. We didn't share the same interests or concerns and I didn't have the social skills yet to bridge that gap. My mum forced me to pick a sport, a music and a club. I didn't have to do all of them all the time, and if I truly didn't like one I could quit – but I had to give it a real try, and I had to keep one activity no matter what.

I remember feeling alienated, always alone in a crowd. The depressingly slow rate of instruction bored me to tears. Sometimes I hated it, sometimes I disassociated a bit, sometimes I was glad for the company. But it forced me to engage, which many years later I am grateful for. I wish I had done more, sooner. I was never teased or bullied though. Just seen as the benign odd kid.
posted by fritillary at 1:10 PM on March 6, 2018 [4 favorites]

As you surely know, kids need both academic skills and social skills, and a good school helps with both. For academically gifted kids, quite often what happens is that what's "normal" in terms of development swaps, so they get a lot of academic skills down really fast while the social skills don't really come in until later. And by that point, all the other kids are really socially advanced and it's easy for everyone to fall into stereotypes and isolating behaviors. They might still be struggling with reading comprehension or math but socially they're adept, especially in comparison to "gifted" kids who are struggling, and to add to this they've been told how smart they are and impressively fast at being good at new things for years, so they don't have the skill of, say, trying again after a failure, or slowly building a dependable reputation, or being a gracious loser. It's a whole thing. Add on top of that your kid being non-NT and you've got a textbook example of someone who has some growing left to do. Basically, he's only 11. Give it time, my dude.
posted by Mizu at 1:11 PM on March 6, 2018 [6 favorites]

It really depends on what he does at home and how he feels about it, IMHO. Assuming he just zones out and stares at a wall, or whines about being bored...I understand your dilemma and am not 100% sure how I would deal with it myself. I just want to respectfully suggest that requiring him to take up one or two activities isn’t ‘Going all Tiger mom on him.’ It seems like a decent and fair compromise to me, especially if he gets to pick the activity. I don’t think the current situation is doing him or you any favors, since you say you’re miserable (and he’ll pick up on that for sure).

If the activities available are all not OK, due to him not being neurotypical, can he come up with his own activity? Could be a project at home - like learning to sew or woodwork -, could be meditation, yoga, gardening, reading a novel that’s a bit above his level...there’s lots of stuff to do that’s not a stereotypical group activity, not super exhausting or stimulating, and still builds important skills.

If he’s already doing stuff like this in the afternoons, it might really be a matter of you needing to readjust your expectations. Not everyone needs to like group activities. I know I don’t...
posted by The Toad at 1:15 PM on March 6, 2018 [7 favorites]

I realize this is about you, not him, but part of the problem is that, if he wants to go to U of Chicago, you're letting him make a bad decision that he doesn't understand the ramifications of. So of course, this is hard for you. With the best of intentions, you're letting him do something that you know isn't good for him.

I forced my child to take piano lessons because I believed that it was important to learn a musical instrument. He hated it, and lots of people told me I should let him quit, but he hated math too, and nobody was suggesting it was OK to quit that. As an adult, he got interested in piano again, and he thanked me for making him take lessons. (His literal words were "thank you for making me take piano lessons against my will.")

Your child might also dislike math or English class or gym class, but he still has to take those classes. Requiring one extracurricular activity a semester does not make you Tiger Mom. In most respects, I was the most laid-back parent in the world, but I stuck to my guns on the piano lessons, and I'm glad I did. And more importantly, my child was glad I did.

I do want to say this just reflects my thoughts on this, and of course, you are free to think I'm crazy.
posted by FencingGal at 1:17 PM on March 6, 2018 [23 favorites]

Our kids didn't have a choice. Being physically active is important, Being involved in something, anything is important. We weren't trying to change the "rules" at age 11, which is probably more problematic though. However, do you want to do X is something he can say no to. You have to participate in a sport or physical activity, so pick one by next Friday, is a fundamentally different question. In fact, it's not a question. Our only rule was try it, stick with it through one cycle, season, class, whatever, and move on to something else if you want.

Both kids are adults now. We don't appear to have done any permanent damage. In fact, both seem to have developed lifelong passions for things they originally tried before age 12.
posted by COD at 1:18 PM on March 6, 2018 [2 favorites]

Because I want him to grow up to be an interesting and well rounded person who thinks about the world. I want him to meet people that might be his friends, but also people who are different from him. I want him to have lots of new experiences. I want him to be willing to try stuff, and find stuff he likes. And stuff he doesn't like. And because I want him to be able to find things he'll both love and be successful at, but he'll never find them if he never tries any of them.

Non-neurotypical former kid here who rarely if ever participated in extracurricular activities. A couple of points that come to mind:

A) if he's neurodivergent and you're neurotypical, you don't know what his experience is like. (This is actually true even if you're both ND or both NT, but it's particularly pronounced when there's a difference. The most loving, caring, empathetic non-autistic parent can't truly understand what an autistic child's experience is, for example, because their neurology is different.)

B) if he already feels overwhelmed by life, it makes sense that he wouldn't want to add on to that. If getting through daily experience is difficult, time alone to recharge might be what he most needs.

C) if he's doing any kind of therapy, lessons, or treatment related to being non-neurotypical, he's already doing extra work, just not the kind that's typically described as "extracurricular". When I was spending two hours a week in therapy, I felt like that took care of two hours worth of "you should be doing something outside the house" from my parents.
posted by Lexica at 1:19 PM on March 6, 2018 [9 favorites]

I took seven years of piano lessons - no options. After I was allowed to stop I never touched the piano. I am terrible at music. In fact, almost nothing that I did as an extracurricular carried over to any point where I had the choice of what to do, and even now I still basically like to go home, sit around and read. Reading is my extracurricular. And yet I'd like to think that I'm not history's greatest monster.

It might help to sit with the idea that doing extracurriculars does not have the actual personality-determining power that college admissions boards and the sellers of extracurriculars would like us to believe.

Also, do you demonstrate good adulting qualities? The good habits that I have and most of the pleasant ones are the ones that I lived as a kid. My parents loved to read, ate regular meals with lots of vegetables, exercised regularly and wrote various things for hobbies and money, often bringing me along or involving me in some way - those are the things that have really shaped what I do in my spare time. You can help your child build good habits just by maintaining them yourself - if you're doing that, you can afford to worry less about extracurriculars.
posted by Frowner at 1:20 PM on March 6, 2018 [26 favorites]

I was helpfully identified as gifted, and received the many benefits of being gifted--namely, being moved ahead a grade, making me younger and smaller than the people I went through school with my whole life. I was NOT helpfully identified as introverted and anxiety-prone. I experienced twelve years of public school as an exercise in constant exposure and humiliation, a kind of unrelieved torture. I'm a middle-aged man and I still get chills down my spine in August when I see back-to-school ads. If anybody had suggested to me that I should voluntarily hang around in school longer than was required I would have thought that they were really insane. It'd be like saying, 'Hey, hold your hand in this fire longer, it'll look great on your college applications.' I have no idea what your child's experience of school is like, but that's what mine was like.

I'm now a father and a professional artist; I did eventually find people I wanted to be around and things I wanted to do. But I found them myself, in my own time.

>I want him to meet people that might be his friends, but also people who are different from him. I want him to have lots of new experiences. I want him to be willing to try stuff, and find stuff he likes. And stuff he doesn't like. And because I want him to be able to find things he'll both love and be successful at, but he'll never find them if he never tries any of them.

It would be lovely if you could make people do these things, but I think in some cases you just have to let them come around themselves.
posted by Sing Or Swim at 1:20 PM on March 6, 2018 [16 favorites]

My school required at least one sport OR participation in one performing arts activity each year from 7th grade on. I think that's a totally reasonable requirement for most kids (you could make it even more generous by including participation in any club for a full semester as a third option), but it does run the risk of backfiring, as halation said. You might think about whether your son tends to enjoy new experiences after you immerse him in them or if he hates and resents them forever as a result (I was totally the second kind of kid, and the piano is dead to me now as a result. My mom was 100% a tiger mom and I'm actually thankful for a lot of it, as stressful and demoralizing as it was at the time, but not the stupid piano lessons).

But, answering your actual question -- kids aren't always the people their parents hope they'll be. So, I'll second everyone suggesting that you ask your son what he's interested in and watch how he chooses to spend his time. Your goals for him are good long-term goals, but they're big for an eleven year old.

Can you pick one area at a time to work on with him? For example, practicing getting along with different types of people: maybe he would be a great tutor for younger kids struggling with a subject in school; maybe he'd really love to go on hikes with a multi-generational group and forget all about school for the day; maybe he'd like volunteering at the local animal shelter or food bank. Any of those would expose him to different people without the same kind of social pressure of clubs of his peers (if you suspect that's the problem with clubs) and could all build into impressive extracurriculars if he sticks with them for a few years.
posted by snaw at 1:23 PM on March 6, 2018 [2 favorites]

His complete disinterest in participating in anything makes me by turns very sad and super frustrated. It is sometimes tempting to go all tiger mom on him and require a sport and a club each term, but I think that would end up being a miserable experience for anyone. On the other hand, having him sit at home in the afternoons is making me miserable. But at least its just me.

Hey I want to unpack this a bit to try to understand what's up with you. I see a few things here.

1. You believe that for your son to succeed in his goals he will need to have extracurricular interests. And you just clarified: And because I want him to be able to find things he'll both love and be successful at, but he'll never find them if he never tries any of them.

If this is truly about him then I think you're sad and frustrated because you feel like your family is not living in line with your goal of "having lots of new experiences." I think you will feel better if your family lives in line with your goals.

So I do not suggest pushing him to participate at school, but I suggest that as a family you make a short bucket list of things to try (in sort of one-afternoon segments) over the next three months and then go do those things. Then you can keep talking to him about the time he tried X New Thing and liked it. But recognize that he may not end up using the school extracurriculars at this age.

2. Having him sit home is making you miserable. Are you miserable because you're worried?

Or are you miserable because he really is just sitting at home and not engaging with little projects of his own, etc. Or is it miserable because you feel like you have to entertain him? I would think that through and decide how to make the afternoons less miserable. If you aren't working from home/balancing other responsibilities, that's a good opportunity to introduce him to things.

If it is really making you miserable from the childcare aspect of it, it seems to me it wouldn't be a terrible thing to say "you need to have one activity period a week, whether at school or something else" to give you that breathing room.
posted by warriorqueen at 1:23 PM on March 6, 2018 [29 favorites]

I wish my parents had made me do something instead of letting me retreat further and further into myself. It's had a huge impact on me as an adult - both on my social skills, and on my difficulty with finishing anything. So I think it's okay that you're not okay with this and I think it's okay for you to be pushy. Setting limits like this is not domineering or abusive. You're not his friend.
posted by AFABulous at 1:24 PM on March 6, 2018 [20 favorites]

Response by poster: He does not have stuff going on in the afternoons. He has an appointment one hour one afternoon a week, and goes to father-son D&D one evening a week. Other than that he's home after school playing video games online with friends who live in other states. He will do the chores he's asked to do. He steadfastly refuses to do crafts or science projects or really anything else at home beyond some reading.
posted by anastasiav at 1:24 PM on March 6, 2018

Would it help you to realize that what is true now doesn’t have to be true in the future? I didn’t do any real activities in middle school and then became heavily involved in extracurriculars in high school and college.
posted by raccoon409 at 1:28 PM on March 6, 2018 [12 favorites]

Hello me of several years ago! I had all the same feelings about my non-NT etc kid, who wasn't interested in any of the activities his school had at that age. I don't know if this is helpful, since your kid might keep on the same trajectory he's on now, but my non-NT kid is now in high school and is on two athletic teams (yes, this violates state policy, please don't report us) and more clubs than he has time for. So, it might be a matter of time, and you don't have to get used to it at all.

I did force him to pick one team / group / social activity when he was in 6th or 7th grade; he was allowed to drop physical therapy but had to do something else instead so his life wasn't just coming home and sorting Magic cards. It worked! He chose archery lessons and is now on a travel team. And Magic is also now a social event as well as a relaxing hobby at home.

I know you're trying to adjust your feelings to the situation at hand, and I don't want to minimize that. I apologize if I seem insensitive to what you're currently going through. Part of having a special needs child, as I'm sure you know, is mourning the kid you thought you would have. Blah blah blah welcome to Holland blah blah blah, but there's some truth to it.
posted by The corpse in the library at 1:29 PM on March 6, 2018 [5 favorites]

> Other than that he's home after school playing video games online with friends who live in other states

Maybe limit the amount of time he's allowed to do that? Like, it isn't allowed until after 5:00, when after-school activities end?
posted by The corpse in the library at 1:31 PM on March 6, 2018 [16 favorites]

So two days a week he has after school or evening stuff? I know it's not the nineties anymore, but I remember that having three days a week of after school stuff felt like a LOT when I was in junior high - I'm a really introverted person and school took a lot out of me.

Honestly, if he's getting some exercise this really doesn't seem that bad for an eleven-year-old, with daily exercise (like walking or biking) being, IMO, preferred over sports once a week.

Is this his first year of junior high, too? Junior high is a nightmare! For a non-neurotypical kid it's probably extra ghastly (I was gifted and would probably have qualified for some kind of mild spectrumy thing if that had been a thing and man did junior high wear me out.)

Is he happy? It's not that we can't be happy while making poor choices, but for a junior high kid who has some social ties and a couple of activities a week, happiness seems like a pretty good metric.
posted by Frowner at 1:33 PM on March 6, 2018 [14 favorites]

I think you are well within your rights as a parent to require a sport.

I am very glad fshgrl wasn't one of my parents. Forcing a non-sporty kid into a sport won't make a non-sporty kid sporty, but it might well make a non-sporty kid hate and resent you, with good reason.
posted by uberchet at 1:34 PM on March 6, 2018 [34 favorites]

He already is someone of value, regardless of whether or not he joins any extracurricular clubs.

Understand that he is what he is. You can’t make him be a particular type of person, or not be a particular type of person. He might just have less desire for novelty than you do.

Could it be teenage rebellion? If extracurricular activities are so important to you, one way to rebel is to not do them. If it’s that, your only real option is to back off.
posted by Anne Neville at 1:34 PM on March 6, 2018 [7 favorites]

Requiring some regular physical activity is reasonable. Requiring a sport is not. There are lots of ways to exercise that aren’t sports, and competitive sports aren’t fun for everybody.
posted by Anne Neville at 1:37 PM on March 6, 2018 [20 favorites]

I want him to grow up to be an interesting and well rounded person who thinks about the world. I want him to meet people that might be his friends, but also people who are different from him. I want him to have lots of new experiences. I want him to be willing to try stuff, and find stuff he likes. And stuff he doesn't like. And because I want him to be able to find things he'll both love and be successful at, but he'll never find them if he never tries any of them.

Well, of course you do! I'm a parent and a teacher and here's the thing:

HE'S 11.

You need to reframe your thinking from what he does at 11 into a life sentence. He has plenty of time to pick up hobbies and activities. The stuff he's doing now as a pre-teen does not equal a lifetime of the exact same thinking.

Having said that, though, I want you to consider more of a middle road. While an 11 year old certainly does not need extracurriculars, coming home from school and spending hours every day playing video games is not doing him any favors. That's an awful lot of video time. A bit of unwinding is good, but what you're describing isn't the healthiest thing for a kid that age.

If nothing else, cut back on the online gaming. What you're describing is a situation that will hardly entice your kid to explore the world.
posted by yes I said yes I will Yes at 1:38 PM on March 6, 2018 [17 favorites]

If it makes you feel better, I never participated in any school-related extracurriculars, and I turned out ok :) I went to a good university, have close, rewarding friendships, and developed both physical and creative hobbies. All of this happened later for me than most people (I am non-neurotypical as well) but I am very glad I was able to grow into those things when I was ready rather than being forced to spend time doing things and around people that made me uncomfortable -- I didn't really like my school or my classmates, so spending extra time with them held zero interest for me. Instead, my parents sent me to non-school related things like private piano lessons and horseback riding.

So maybe just try to be patient and remember that everyone grows at their own pace.
posted by ananci at 1:38 PM on March 6, 2018 [4 favorites]

Other than that he's home after school playing video games online with friends who live in other states.

Neurodivergent kid here who did the same thing all of high school. I grew up to be a successful, well-rounded adult who started making $75k out the door in my first real job BECAUSE I had spent so much time playing video games in my youth. It made me HAPPY. My language and logic skills are much higher than my peers. My leadership skills are excellent. I ended developing my other interests in college when I was free to do so on my own terms and without pressure from parents. Your son can do all the things you want him to do in so many other ways than the framework you think is the only way. This is the good news I want to share with you.

Also, I am going to politely but emphatically disagree with the assertion above that you are "well within your rights as a parent" to insist that your son do a sport. Do not do this. Do not. I cannot even begin to delve into why this is not a Thing To Do.
posted by Hermione Granger at 1:41 PM on March 6, 2018 [24 favorites]

My tiger-mentality Asian mother made this shy, nervous, neurotypical pre-teen pick two extracurricular group activities, and her alternative was that if I didn't, I'd have to give up the same amount of time going with her to her activities - volunteering, mosque, school-related events (she was a headmistress.)

Over the course of middle and high school, I took drama, basketball, academic decathlon, and embroidery. I can safely say I was miserable for about the first year or so, until it became clear to me that there were other kids who hated it as much as I did, but were also there because of their terrible, wicked, cruel, mean parents who made them do it. It was a nice, if unwanted, sense of camaraderie.

Ten years later, I found myself at a top tier university, thanking my stars that my mom had made me do all those things. I'm a scientist involved in community theater. My interests in art and literature are wide, and I seek out things that are a direct result of having exposure to different activities.

So, to your question on how other parents come to terms with this - for my own son (who is two years old right now, and so far neurotypical), I would not come to terms with this.

Other than that he's home after school playing video games online with friends who live in other states. [...] He steadfastly refuses to do crafts or science projects or really anything else at home beyond some reading.

This would not be acceptable to me, as a parent. Clearly he's able to interact with his peers in this way (and there are extracurricular activities that allow for online interaction in a group setting), and he seems to also be refusing to do anything 'extra' even in the safety of his home. My recourse if this were my child, would be to seek therapy for him in an attempt to tease out whether his refusal stems from a true neurological source (anxiety, his non-NT characteristics), or whether this is just normal pre-teen refusal.

If it were the latter, and this was my child, I'd probably require him to understand that at least one activity, for an hour a week, is non-negotiable (some may disagree with this as 'punishment', but for me refusal may very likely mean he forfeits some of his gaming time); then follow some of the wonderful suggestions upthread for activities in small doses or that you can at least initiate as a family.
posted by Everydayville at 1:41 PM on March 6, 2018 [9 favorites]

I'm pulling a couple quotes of yours here and putting them next to each other, since they jumped out at me:

I want him to meet people that might be his friends, but also people who are different from him.
--
Other than that he's home after school playing video games online with friends who live in other states.

It sounds like he's doing just fine meeting people different from him who have nevertheless become his friends.
posted by EmpressCallipygos at 1:44 PM on March 6, 2018 [16 favorites]

Because I want him to grow up to be an interesting and well rounded person who thinks about the world. I want him to meet people that might be his friends, but also people who are different from him. I want him to have lots of new experiences.

I never did anything in school or after school (including homework), and I've grown up to do some interesting things. I rode a motorcycle ocean to ocean when I was 18 or 19. I built an old truck, starting with rectangular steel tubing and welding up a new frame. Now I'm a professional scientist with many publications.
I have found that kids have a good feel for authenticity. My kids have been all over the country, and seen many museums and parks, but when someone asked one of them what the most fun thing was, they answered "putting up hay". I was shocked, we had used pitchforks to gather hay the way it was done before mechanized farming and it was not pleasant work - hot, dusty and tiring. On the other hand, it was real - we used that hay in the winter for our animals.
Just make him tag along as you do some real stuff, and if you aren't doing any thing interesting as a family then you are not setting a good example. Get a drone, or a 3D printer, or try to visit ever place with X in the name, or go to the animal shelter and take some dogs for a walk.
posted by 445supermag at 1:44 PM on March 6, 2018 [14 favorites]

I 100% understand (and agree with) your reasons for wanting your son to be involved in extracurriculars. I was an introverted kid and being involved in clubs challenged me and opened up my world in a way that regular school did not, at all.

However, I absolutely loved the Sims and if I had been allowed to play it after school every day there is no way in hell I would have chose my drama club or my circus club over the sims :)
posted by pintapicasso at 1:45 PM on March 6, 2018 [3 favorites]

Maybe a bit of quid pro quo? Limit the online gaming hours, with a higher limit if he’s in extracurricular activities.

But bear in mind that some autistic people find it less difficult to socialize online than in real life. There’s less reliance on nonverbal communication online, and a lot of autistic people struggle with nonverbal communication. It’s kind of nice to be in an environment where other people don’t have that advantage.
posted by Anne Neville at 1:48 PM on March 6, 2018 [3 favorites]

Where I grew up - both time and place - extra curricular activities were non-existent, this was not just me or my family but an entire society, rural Austria in the 1970s.
Rest assured, we all grew up persons of value and of varied wide-ranging interests. My cousin is a prof at university of Notre dame just to give a silly example.

I do realise you live in the US in 2018, but what i try to day is generations of people who did not do any extra curricular activities grew into well rounded people. after school activities are not a prerequisite for a fulfilled and good adult life.

I don't want sound to harsh, i do get the sense of frustration. My son is nine, and he could do any number of activities, but prefers not to, with exception of tennis he took up recently, influence d by a school friend.
You want the very best for him, and of course it is frustrating.
I was not only frustrated but downright angry when my son stopped violin lessons after 6 months. His teacher told me it was such a shame he really had potential.
What helped me getting a grip on my anger was talking to my therapist about my fears for him. And to deal with those fears helped me. And to acknowledge the anger and frustration , especially the anger but also fear.
I would say if you can, see a therapist or counselor to explore your fears for him.
posted by 15L06 at 1:59 PM on March 6, 2018 [6 favorites]

I'm still focusing here on you.

What are your own thoughts about online gaming? I know what mine are,* but I'm not sure that's of help to you. Do you see gaming with others as pro-social or anti-social? What games are they playing? Do they encourage skills development, world-building, cooperation? Or are they more combative? Do they trash-talk? Would you consider the fellow gamers friends?

I am guessing that at the base of all this you are worried he is going to get stuck. I think this is a good worry but you have some time here. So I would work on thinking about what you believe the pros and cons are of his chosen activity (gaming) and talk to him about it, maybe brainstorm together. Along with that family bucket list because I do agree with you that the only real way for him to discover what his real passions are is to come in contact with some.

*I met my husband, many of my best friends, and indirectly started my career on an online game I played obsessively. However I also missed many other opportunities. I don't have a lot of regret but I will never play online games, particularly immersive ones, again. I have given all the hours of my life to gaming that I wish to. What I want for my own kids is balance. 8-10 hours is a LOT of hours a week.

However I do spent some time here on MeFi each day...
posted by warriorqueen at 2:04 PM on March 6, 2018 [5 favorites]

Best answer: PS: You are a good parent. Just wanted to tell you so.
posted by Hermione Granger at 2:11 PM on March 6, 2018 [7 favorites]

Best answer: Fellow parent of a neurodivergent and very bright 11 year old here.

I feel you so very much. But you must let. this. go. He sounds like he's doing just fine - you're the one who is frustrated. From my experience this happens to me when I'm refusing to let go of the "normal kid plans" I had in my head. It takes a while to really adjust your expectations - and everyone else's! If I had a nickel for every time some well meaning adult relative asked my son about playing sports or some such and looked at me ASTONISHED that we didn't go to soccer every week or whatever.....I'd be a wealthy mom. He just hates anything like that. And I had to quit trying to die on that hill.

FWIW I work at a super-competitive liberal arts college and these undergraduates are just amazing with all their different "neuro-typical/atypical-ness." They figure it out. He will find a way to be excellent on his own terms.
posted by pantarei70 at 2:12 PM on March 6, 2018 [12 favorites]

Classes at school are structured or unstructured in a defined way. Activities vary a lot and there may be less of a safety net for a kid who's atypical in any way. I asked my son to learn an instrument, because it's excellent brain exercise and a great adult skill, but lessons were on days his Dad had him and his Dad would always forget and I couldn't afford lessons he couldn't attend. I pushed for sports because fitness, and he ended liking track a lot. Good coach and independent activity within a group. Early on, he did a ski program, and loves skiing really a lot, but would never join the group or team at school.

Activities after school can be a break for you on after school worries, kids get exposed to different activities, they learn to try new things. Maybe it feels weird to you and you want the benefits of those things for him. Other parents can be weirdly judgmental.

I'll bet you've explained all this to him. I think it's fair to ask him to consider his reasons and try to articulate them to you, because that's part of how family works. You can tell him you want him to have the habit of exercise, which could be riding his bike, walking, or a team. That you want him to spend time outdoors. That you want him to be exposed to different music, activities, cultures, and you can plan how what might happen.
posted by theora55 at 2:32 PM on March 6, 2018

How do I get to a place where I'm at peace with this choice?

Keep reminding yourself that this is simply his 11-year-old choice, not a lifetime declaration. If all goes well, becoming "an interesting and well rounded person who thinks about the world" will be a life-long process, but he doesn't necessarily need to start working on this immediately.

I know you stressed that this is about you, not him, but perhaps a few changes on his part will help you feel better about his choice and also benefit him in other ways. E.g., if you haven't already done so, establish reasonable game time limits, which will leave him with more free time that he will have to fill with something—see what he does with the extra time.

Maybe ease up on making him aware of options/activities you think he would enjoy, which might make him feel like you're pressuring him. Naturally, you don't want him to develop a knee-jerk negative reaction to any idea that comes from you.

He will do the chores he's asked to do.

Great (some parents will tell you you're ahead of the game here). Give him more responsibilities (chores), but allow him some freedom regarding exacting when/how these tasks will be done.

Re insisting he participate in a sport, club, whatever—I think this only works when you're dealing with kids that aren't all that opposed to the idea in the first place, but I doubt it's a viable option for you. You can force an 11-year-old to sign up for an activity, maybe you can force him to actually show-up, but you cannot make him participate in any meaningful way.

I think your best option right now is to continue modeling the behavior you want to see in him, e.g., go to the gym, participate in local politics, etc. And keep reminding yourself that he's only 11—the next few years will be filled with profound changes.
posted by she's not there at 2:37 PM on March 6, 2018 [5 favorites]

As an introverted child, the school day was exhausting enough for me. Socializing past that would have been too much. I sometimes played with friends ( going over to each other's houses and watching cartoons or playing legos or barbies or with the neighborhood kids riding bikes and building sandcastles. ) In high school I did join clubs I was interested in, but I think if my parents had required it I would have pushed back. If you're worried about exercise, take walks or hike or ride bikes on the weekends as a family. Not everybody has to play soccer.
posted by Green Eyed Monster at 2:37 PM on March 6, 2018 [8 favorites]

Have you thought about seeing a therapist for yourself? It seems like this is really bothering you and that you're spending a non-insignificant amount of time worrying about it. It's almost as though you're taking his rejection of activities personally and perhaps even seeing it as a negative reflection on your parenting or how you do things. You know enough to know that it's about you and not him, so why not take the extra step and spend some time with a therapist figuring this out?
posted by catwoman429 at 2:39 PM on March 6, 2018 [3 favorites]

Just wanting to emphasise the point that being physically active is not the same as doing a sport. For example I was never a child that ran around much, climbed on stuff or knocked a ball about because it was fun. So to encourage healthy habits I was enrolled in a gymnastics class after school when I was about 6/7 years old. I rather enjoyed going because it wasn’t very pressured although I was objectively bad at it. As in, most other kinds were more coordinated and controlled in their movements or had greater strength when needed. But nobody ever made an issue about that so I wasn’t bothered by it either. Then we were told there was going to be a competition. We were told everybody had to compete and represent the team.

That was a problem. I didn’t mind doing poorly in this group because it was such a non issue. But even at that age it was clear to me that the point of a competition is to establish a ranking and I didn’t have to be at/near the bottom of that for every activity to know I was no kind of gymnast. So after being told participation was mandatory I feigned illness on the day, the event was at or near the end of term and I never went back to that class again. I also refused to engage in sport again beyond PE at school until I was almost grown up. So by all means require a degree of physical activity but be very clear about what you’re trying to achieve here because this can easily backfire.
posted by koahiatamadl at 2:47 PM on March 6, 2018 [6 favorites]

Whoooooooooa holy shit. I think your perspective on things is skewed from the competitive school environment you are in - my junior high didn't even have extra-curriculars. I had a great time going home and doing activities on the internet and teaching myself photoshop. My mom didn't really care about extracurriculars and just trusted I need to find my own path to something. For perspective, I was 11 years old only 14 years ago. I will forever love and cherish all the free time in my life that my mom gave me and how she never pressured me to do things, but only gave me encouragement to seek out what piqued my curiosity. Now I'm applying to a badass MFA program when it wasn't even my initial undergrad major, because I was able to figure out and discover and think on my own what I wanted to do, things my mom wasn't even aware of. I am so grateful for her faith in me, and her efforts to let go of her need to overly control my life.

Let it go, let it go~
posted by yueliang at 3:01 PM on March 6, 2018 [8 favorites]

Other than that he's home after school playing video games online with friends who live in other states.

That amount of time online and interacting with strangers unsupervised would not be acceptable to me either for an 11 year old. I think it would be unacceptable to most parents. Everyone I know with kids that rage strongly limits both screen time AND does not allow them to participate in public servers. And I have two nieces who are completely addicted to minecraft so I know the struggle is real.

He's spending all his free time doing something highly addictive and he's never outdoors and gets almost no exercise. Metafilter is not a typical group of people regarding online activities and health/ physical activity. I'd encourage you to ask this question somewhere that is no metafilter and a bit more diverse. If also encourage you to discuss this behavior with a therapist or to research it more. It's not optimal, your instincts are correct.

Also he's 11, forget college applications much less his input on them. It's a long way in the future and he doesn't know what he's talking about. You do.
posted by fshgrl at 3:02 PM on March 6, 2018 [40 favorites]

What does he think about getting involved in *something* outside of school? Middle schoolers can be... well.. jerks.

I would also suggest finding opportunities where he can be part of an (all ages) community. (Maybe it's a religious group, community theatre, gaming org, volunteer group, parent-child art class.) Alternatively, can you find him a coach/ instructor/ tutor/ for one-on-one sessions on an activity of interest?

Have you talked at all about what he wants to do this summer?
posted by oceano at 3:03 PM on March 6, 2018 [1 favorite]

Because I want him to grow up to be an interesting and well rounded person who thinks about the world. I want him to meet people that might be his friends, but also people who are different from him.

I am a non-neurotypical person who got pushed into doing a lot of stuff when I was young, and some of it gave me some fun stories but like--there were a lot of bad things that happened because of all that stuff, too. I wish I could say that I loved being in band, that I loved being a Girl Scout, that I loved playing softball, but I was never as good as I wanted to be at anything, and I got picked on a lot, and a lot of the friends I thought I made turned out to be people who were not good for me in the long run.

On the other hand, one of the things about my brain working in kind of challenging ways is that as I got into my 20s and 30s, I was more mature and more able to both control my own behavior and actually evaluate other people and figure out what I wanted to do with myself and who I wanted to be around. Not having friends now does not mean he will never have good friends. Not being "well rounded" now doesn't mean he never will be. It is totally possible to explore stuff about people who're different from you through things like books and television and video games, in spaces that can be safer.

I'm not saying there's no problems with his current way of spending all his time, I'm just saying--being the weird kid on the track team is not necessarily going to leave him feeling empowered and well-rounded. You don't have an either/or choice here between him doing a lot of organized activities that leave him socially vulnerable and what he's currently doing.
posted by Sequence at 3:08 PM on March 6, 2018 [3 favorites]

Oh yeah, I'm also neuroatypical and my mother was an introvert who hates social norms of behavior. Was definitely grateful to not be a soccer mom and never tried to push us into sports, we both loved being at home and just chilling out from a long day. Where are your priorities and concerns coming from? It's worth examining where the external pressure comes from - my mom always told me about how her anxious as hell friends would freak out that she didn't make my brother and I do things, and my mom was like "Why? What kind of comfort are you trying to give yourself by doing that?"
posted by yueliang at 3:09 PM on March 6, 2018 [1 favorite]

Response by poster: That amount of time online and interacting with strangers unsupervised would not be acceptable to me either for an 11 year old

Just to clarify - they're not strangers and they're not adults. They are the kids of our adult friends. The kids all know each other IRL. It's a closed Slack channel. They do play some games online with the general public, but aren't talking to them online.
posted by anastasiav at 3:35 PM on March 6, 2018 [6 favorites]

So... could the kids actually get together in person and play board games? That sounds a bit more like a halfway point between being an internet hermit and forced participation in a completely structured activity.
posted by Green Eyed Monster at 3:58 PM on March 6, 2018 [4 favorites]

Oh ok, that's different. If he knows and interacts with them in real life too and the online relationship is an extension of that I'd call it a positive, socially. But that's still a lot of screen time/ gaming time and being sedentary. And they will find a way around those limitations sooner or later if they haven't already, be warned! One of my nephews unlocked his dad's phone, installed Skype, found and called me at age 7. Alone! Kids now 12 and a straight evil genius.

I was an introverted kid and my parents made me do one activity at a time till I found stuff I liked. It was sometimes unpleasant and yes, other kids were sometimes mean or whatever but I also made lifelong friends and interests that allow me to meet people wherever I go. And all the forced outdoor time (if it wasn't raining we were kicked outside) I know made us healthier and happier. After all the whining subsided. My mom wouldn't have bothered but my dad insisted and I'm glad.
posted by fshgrl at 4:03 PM on March 6, 2018 [2 favorites]

Beside the political activism (which is awesome!) I wonder what other hobbies you have, how you spend your downtime, what example you set. For me, I had habits similar to your son because I was relentlessly bullied, and shy, and an anxious mess at that time. I wasn't encouraged to take up hobbies – I did, eventually, in high school, on my own, but I do wish my parents had encouraged me by showing me a variety of healthy ways to spend downtime, rather than zoning out in front of the TV or a book. He's doing D&D with his father – maybe you might do something physical with him separately, since you've honed in on the running?
posted by thirdletter at 4:36 PM on March 6, 2018 [3 favorites]

He does not have stuff going on in the afternoons.

is not the same as

He has an appointment one hour one afternoon a week, and goes to father-son D&D one evening a week. Other than that he's home after school playing video games online with friends who live in other states.

He has stuff going on. It just doesn't sound like stuff you value. And since you asked about making this about you, I would encourage you to find the positives in the things he enjoys. And to also be mindful of the possibility that your son, due to being atypical or just as a part of his personality type, may need a lot of time spent away from the demands of other 3D humans.

Your son sounds great, and like he knows himself. Let him be that person without having to worry that he's not what you want.
posted by DarlingBri at 4:54 PM on March 6, 2018 [17 favorites]

I spent my childhood alone reading and ended up less healthy, less socially skilled, and going to a worse school than my intellectual peers whose parents forced them to participate in sports and other extracurriculars. In hindsight, I wish my parents had forced me to do that stuff too. I might have hated it at the time but I would be better off now. Sometimes you have to make kids eat their vegetables.
posted by Jacqueline at 5:25 PM on March 6, 2018 [8 favorites]

Some autistic people have difficulties with spatial awareness and with being klutzy. If your son is like that, it would almost be cruel to pressure him into sports. He could get his physical activity in other ways, ways that don’t involve having to throw or catch a ball or perform in front of others.

I’m terrible at sports. The exercise that I found that is tolerable for me is a stationary bike under my computer desk. Then I can focus on something actually interesting while exercising, and I don’t have to perform in front of anybody. Especially middle school kids can be cruel to kids who have trouble with sports. A lot of people who are not physically active as adults will, when asked why they’re not physically active, cite bad experiences in PE classes in school. Forcing kids to do sports can backfire, is what I’m saying here.
posted by Anne Neville at 5:34 PM on March 6, 2018 [1 favorite]

I was terrible at PE and hated it. I was well into adulthood before took tai chi and figured out I didn’t hate moving my body. What I hated was gym class. I also figured out that a lot of the kids who were good at gym were good at it because they were doing extracurricular athletics. They were learning athletic skills outside of gym class.

Sports don’t have to be team sports with a ball. Those are problematic for some people because your team members depend on you having a certain level of skill. But sports can be martial arts or archery or dance or gymnastics. And developing skills in something like that is good for you physically and mentally. There are long-term health risks to being sedentary, and if your only exposure to movement is a hated gym class, you’re probably more likely to be a sedentary adult. At least that was my experience.
posted by FencingGal at 5:46 PM on March 6, 2018 [8 favorites]

It's okay to force kids to pick a sport, but you need to broaden your idea of sport. I chose horseback riding since its solitary and I love animals, and it was a wonderful experience. Kayaking, hiking, rock climbing, golf, archery.. there are lots of things kids can get into that are not traditional soccer/baseball/track. It can be something the family does together on weekends instead of after school; my parents loved the stables and we all have tons of great memories driving out to the country every weekend for my lessons.

I also spent a lot of time talking to internet people at that age (and, uh.. now, too, apparently...hi) and it was a godsend. If I had been limited to my school for friends I would almost assuredly become a sad statistic. Just keep an eye out for if he is suffering from depression, anxiety, etc. My parent's only failing at that age was not exploring medication for me, but that was not nearly as prevalent in the mid90s as it is today so I don't actually blame them... i just wish things had been different.
posted by gatorae at 6:03 PM on March 6, 2018 [2 favorites]

Remembering how long the years are from the kid perspective is hard and also helpful.

At almost 40, a year goes so fast yet..10 to 14 took an eternity and the what seem like small slights now stung pretty deep. At 11 spending time with other kids that accept you may be worth more than the alternative.
posted by typecloud at 6:08 PM on March 6, 2018 [6 favorites]

All of these activities are held at this excellent school, where he says he doesn't fit in? (Sorry if I missed this point above.)

And he's 11? (Worst age to be, imo - that was the age of peak nasty, iirc. Hormones + increasing social skills make most average kids absolute monsters around then)

I had a miserable time with most kids at school around that age (was odd and brainy and clutzy, definitely last picked for any team). Ballet class, though - totally different atmosphere, culture, social organization - different kids, too. None of the dynamics from school followed me there. (I lucked out in that I responded strongly to the music, which actually helped organize my movements and develop some kind of kinesthetic awareness. I wasn't the best, wasn't the worst, but loved it enough to tolerate agonizing muscle cramps after the fact :/)

He should have *some* time outside. (Sunlight is good for his eyes and bones; exposure to green things will help calm him.) If kids in the neighbourhood aren't spontaneously playing tag or whatever outside like in the olden days, it's got to be organized. He should have *some* opportunity to move his body, and be in physical proximity to kids he feels ok with. No reason that has to happen at the school, though. Let him try different activities in different settings, with other kids.

(Another thought - all these kids your son's playing this game with are also in their rooms? What about getting in touch with their parents - maybe you all, and/or the kids could organize an IRL game tournament [? no idea] themselves, make it a regular event?)
posted by cotton dress sock at 6:16 PM on March 6, 2018

OP said that the kids he's playing games with online are in other states so having them just play together in person is probably not a real option.
posted by the agents of KAOS at 6:40 PM on March 6, 2018 [3 favorites]

I think there's a certain amount of anxiety driven language that you're using to describe the situation--he's not doing anything, he's not going to be able to keep up, he needs to try to become someone of value (or else...he'll be worthless?). You sound very stressed out.

I don't have a kid so I am probably missing a lot of context, but I do understand having anxiety and how it can play tricks on you until you think that the worst case scenario is the only real possibility and that you can only be one of two extremes--either perfect, or worthless.

I think it might help you to examine the most extreme thinking you've written down here and refute it until it's more balanced--for example, you mentioned that you're worried that even if he does pick up extracurriculars in a couple of years, he'll be "behind" the kids who are doing it now. How do you know that's going to happen? He's academically gifted and is willing to put a lot of time into his hobbies; wouldn't that usually translate to him being pretty good at what he does when he's motivated to do it? Also, he'll be a little more mature when he's older and better able to handle the pressure of competing with others. So he might actually do better than he would if he started at the age of 11. Sure, it might not happen this way, but why should it happen the way you're imagining either? Both scenarios seem plausible. No one can predict the future, and yeah--that's really scary when it comes to your kid--but imagining the worst is making you unhappy with him when nothing has actually gone wrong yet. He might seem less disappointing to you if you can picture better outcomes for him.

Another suggestion--have you ever tried playing video games, D&D, or reading books with him? It might help you better understand him and his motivations, since you can kind of talk while playing instead of having a big pressurized conversation all at once, and you'll get a better idea of what's going on inside his head if you see what he's looking at and thinking about in his free time. It's hard to tell from what you've written if his reluctance is based on not knowing how to handle bad or uncomfortable situations (not fitting in could have been a way of saying some of the kids were jerks, for example), genuine lack of interest, or a lack of exposure to the reasons that something is interesting and relevant. I know that at his age college didn't seem real to me since it was seven years away, and seven years was more than half the time I'd been alive. It probably doesn't seem like something he really needs to deal with yet. Maybe you know his reasons, but if not, could it hurt to find out?

And finally--it doesn't make you a tiger mom to bluntly and lovingly tell him at some point that if he doesn't meet the requirements, he won't get into the school he wants to get into even though he has the potential to do it. I wish someone had given me that reality check when I was 13 or 14, instead of letting me coast and find out the hard way.
posted by rhythm and booze at 6:47 PM on March 6, 2018 [7 favorites]

Does he like the kids in his school at all? I had to go to a catholic school up until grade 8 and had basically no friends. They didn't like me and I didn't like them. I didn't ever get involved with anything outside of school hours because you couldn't have paid me to spend another goddamned minute with those little shits. One I was able to go to a normal school and the people there weren't awful, I was in the art and drama clubs, and involved with the student council. The constant with all of the activities you are pushing him into is they will be full of his classmates, and if he's not friends with them, then of course they are going to suck!

I, like your son, had friends outside of school, and activities with them were great.
posted by 5_13_23_42_69_666 at 6:54 PM on March 6, 2018

He's 11. He doesn't need to start building his high school resume for U of Chicago until he enters high school. I think I agree with you that at some point if he doesn't want to he's going to have to, and it won't serve him to just be allowed to go home and game all day every day come age 14 or whatever. But until he enters high school, he can still get away with this behavior because I don't think colleges care what you did in middle school. I think right now you can "allow" it (more or less), but have a talk with him about how this state of affairs cannot continue once he moves on in school.

I wonder if there was some kind of gaming club at school, would he join that? If there was anything HE was interested in (since nothing else interests him), would he be into it, or does he just not wanna join anything at all a la Groucho?

This whole thing is reminding me of reading The Rah Rah Girl as a kid, because the narrator is a teenage girl from an overachieving family who gets sick of constantly being busy, so she clears her schedule so she can go home and watch Santa Barbara after school every day. Except this makes her parents think she's seriously mentally ill or doing drugs or some OMG TRAUMA SOMETHING IS WRONG WITH YOU IF YOU ARE IDLE, so she gets the idea to take up cheerleading as an interest because she thinks her parents would hate it. Much to her surprise, both she and the parents get into it.
posted by jenfullmoon at 7:14 PM on March 6, 2018

How do I get to a place where I'm at peace with this choice?

You have to make peace with the fact that you can't control him; you have to accept the limits of your control. It's healthy that your son is becoming more independent as he grows up and that he is starting to make his own decisions.

If the decisions he's making for himself were too dangerous or awful, then you'd have to step in, but it sounds like he's doing OK. E.g., it's OK that he's deciding to spend time chatting/gaming with his clique rather than running track. Maybe not optimal from your perspective, but not dangerous or awful. So you just have to let go, and keep letting go more and more as he becomes an adult.

Doubling down at this point would probably be counterproductive anyway.
posted by rue72 at 7:45 PM on March 6, 2018 [5 favorites]

Maybe something to try for one semester is to have him make a video game. Say require him to work on it 45 minutes every other day. He doesn't have to dive into Unity from scratch, there are a few game creation platforms that abstract a lot of the coding.
posted by Sophont at 7:52 PM on March 6, 2018 [1 favorite]

"Be kind, for everyone you meet is fighting a hard battle you know nothing about."

My daughter has pretty severe social anxiety/GAD, which wasn't even diagnosed and I didn't even begin to have the slightest understanding of until she was in her mid-teens. I spent so many years, and probably wounded her in small ways, not understanding and getting frustrated and even angry when she couldn't do simple, basic age-appropriate things. I do cut myself a little bit of slack, because it took her a long time for her to even be able to articulate the feelings she experienced in certain situations, rather than just refusing or panicking when confronted with something that overwhelmed her and not being able to explain why. There were a lot of years when we went on cool, awesome vacations and she'd wind up spending much of the trip in a hotel room or staying in the car. As someone who loves to travel and explore, it was not easy to turn off my judgment and just allow her to experience the trip in the way that was most enjoyable to her, and take some consolation in little things like spending time watching a new movie with her every night after dinner.
It's still not always easy, and I'm still learning to turn off my instinctive expectations, but the more I do the more she's able to describe her mental processes to me and turn to me for genuine support and understanding when she needs it. And I still need to remind myself to be proud and excited when she successfully tackles things that "most kids" are able to take in stride but that reflect huge challenges for her. Like, her cousin who's 5 years younger than her is probably going to get a driver's license before she does, but last week she drove for nearly an hour on the interstate and nobody cried and nobody died and I'm proud of her for that and for all the other little things that she's figuring out how to do, on her own timeline, with her own motivation.
Finally, take some consolation in the knowledge that kids change a LOT over the time period between early middle school and mid/late high school when all this will become a little more impactful.
posted by drlith at 9:09 PM on March 6, 2018 [6 favorites]

I didn't do extracurriculars in middle school, and did relatively little in high school, and I did supposedly get rejected from at least one school for lack of roundedness. Then again I also got accepted into a bunch of equally excellent schools, and of all the things I regret not doing while I was in high school, extracurriculars isn't really one of them. I think I grew up to be an interesting and well rounded person who thinks about the world (ymmv) and I do try new things. But I'm also still an introvert with social anxiety (considerably less than in high school) who needs a lot of time alone to be okay. I have no idea if doing more during school would have changed that. I don't think so, though.

To your point about colleges, I think it's kind of mad to be intent on a specific university when he's so young (or any age, really). I mean he could just as easily go to a UC school or an international school, where extracurriculars are either much less important or not even considered at all - or to any of the many other American schools that would have him, of course, possibly including the University of Chicago. But so what if he doesn't go to Chicago? Or even one of the "top" schools? If the goal is for him to be interesting and thoughtful, that's fairly orthogonal to what kind of school he ends up going to.

It really depends on the individual kid, and it's hard to say on the basis of reading a few paragraphs. Maybe it would turn out well to ask him to try one activity every year. Maybe it would just make him miserable. Maybe he'd enjoy it but not actually get much out of it (there's no lack of boring and relatively thoughtless people who did plenty of extracurriculars). I think if you do require him to do it, try to avoid framing it as being Character Building, because that's both likely to antagonize him and quite possibly untrue. Whatever you end up doing, remember that he's 11, that interesting people have grown up around the world and throughout history just hanging out after school with friends (which is basically what he's doing), and that there's no magic inherent to any particular university, even the ones that cultivate a mythos.
posted by trig at 9:24 PM on March 6, 2018 [3 favorites]

I have two anecdotes from my life that might be more or less useful; I have trouble drawing concrete conclusions from them, but perhaps you may recognize your son in them and maybe it can help you find some peace or direction?

My brother and I both spent a LOT of time on the internet as kids (still do). I am neurotypical; my brother has high-functioning autism. I was in 5th grade when my parents let me stay home alone after school and basically gave me unrestricted internet access (oh, the '90s....). It was probably the single best thing they could have done for me. I usually describe it as a "waking up," or where my life began -- it was that important, I'm not exaggerating. I played silly computer games and met other people who played the same games and forged some deep bonds with them. Some were older (mid-20s), some were younger. From probably 6th-9th grade, I lived online; I'm talking up until 3 am every weekend giggling with my online friends. It was so good for me to carve out a space where I could set my own identity, communicate with people older than me, have a wider pool of people who had my same beliefs/interests/sense of humor, and really have something I could call my own. It fell away when I entered high school. My middle school was 7th-9th grade, and so high school didn't truly begin until my sophomore year. I joined clubs and the bigger pool of people in high school meant I was more likely to find others like me. I 100% attribute whatever confidence & self-worth I have to those formative years; they planted a lot of seeds for me.

My brother likes online interactions for the same reasons I did -- it is easier to plan your words out ahead of time and you have less subtext with body language/social cues online to muddy the waters. That makes a huge difference for him because of his autism. It has done a lot to help him form bonds with other people with less of the anxiety that in-person socializing brings. He also had a few weekly non-screen activities that he did 2-3x/week. He had an absolutely miserable time in junior high, and still carries some major scars from that time. Since he finished college, most of his non-working time is spent online. I think he has some very good friendships, though he's pretty secretive about his online life. To an extent, I think the simplicity/directness of online communication has hurt him. He doesn't exercise the "social cues" muscles as much, so I think they are not as strong as they could be. I wonder if it would be easier for him to navigate the social world if he was in it more often. But -- he's happy, and his friends accept him. It is a tool that helps him connect with others, and that is so important. I do struggle with the tension, though. Will pushing him into anxiety-provoking situations help in the long run, or just make him miserable? I am uncertain. I go back and forth.

I guess, my advice for you: the no-structured-activities-all-screentime-diet can work wonders for kids of your son's age. It also can become a tool for retreat from the world. Middle school is an amazing time to figure out which it might be for your son. How are his skills progressing? Does he become more confident over the next few years, or less so? What parts of his brain is he using when he's hanging out at home, extracurricular-less? Are those the parts that he needs to grow? He has so much to figure out about himself and the world while he's in middle school. Is he finding some answers? Is he refreshed after long periods of doing what he loves now, or does it stimulate bad habits? Observe the evidence that he gives you, not what evidence the Platonic ideal of an 11-year-old offers.
posted by lilac girl at 9:46 PM on March 6, 2018 [3 favorites]

UChicago alum here who's mostly neurotypical.

At 11, the only extracurriculars I did was music (everyone was forced to do music in 6th grade/Asian parents had me on piano) and the quiz bowl team. These were the only extracurriculars I did until high school, where I added on speech/debate and a ton of community service stuff.

My spare time at home was mostly spent reading or continuing some interminably long Monopoly game with my brother. And then 7th grade came along and I got sucked into Neopets. So then, my extracurriculars basically were music, quiz bowl, and Neopets.

To be honest, your son sounds more ahead of the curve than I was. I'd never declared I wanted to go to any particular school, much less heard of UChicago.

And now that I've been through UChicago, I'd really only recommend that you encourage him to read and learn about anything under the sun that he's interested in. It doesn't matter if he goes on long jags of some fantasy series or if he's trying to teach himself Finnish on a whim. Just let him know that any knowledge is really worth learning.

(Also, weekly D&D sounds wonderful for a kid. I'd never played it until a few months ago and holy crap the creativity/communication/problem solving that can go on in a game!)
posted by astapasta24 at 11:07 PM on March 6, 2018 [5 favorites]

I really wanted to nth the notion stated above that unstructured time for children is a gift. When you're daydreaming, you're making these little unconscious connections, processing your experiences.

When/where I was growing up, there wasn't much in the way available for extracurricular activities for children (I didn't grow up in the West). The only acceptable, available after-school activity for girls was singing and/or dancing and I wasn't into either. I really don't think that those boring afternoons spent playing with the dog or reading while my brother played video games did us any harm at all, in fact it made us really comfortable with our own company, and comfortable in the lack of any kind of external stimulation. This is so important and something that I think that many children growing up in the West now lack because their childhood has such a focus on 'filling the unforgiving minute with sixty seconds worth of distance run'. Being comfortable simply with yourself and the world inside your head is a huge asset in adulthood when you can't always rely on the external world to meet your needs for companionship or stimulation. I've grown up a creative sort, which I completely attribute to those afternoons spent daydreaming and telling myself stories.

Your son has his father/son D&D, he has his friends from online video games, but don't think that just because he doesn't appear to be actively engaging with the world, his brain isn't clicking along processing things. I think it's seriously impressive that at the age of 11, he already knows he wants to go to UChicago! At that age I had no knowledge of universities beyond random mention of Oxbridge.
posted by Ziggy500 at 2:42 AM on March 7, 2018 [7 favorites]

Consider that he may just want a break from social activities. I'm autistic - just got diagnosed - and I'm just now coming to the realisation that I've spent the last couple of decades learning to do Social Things but at severe cost to my own mental wellbeing. I actually do a lot of things outside work now, but they also TOTALLY EXHAUST me. Yesterday I facilitated a meeting at a political group I care a lot about. It came after an afternoon of back to back meetings. This morning I woke up totally flat out exhausted and haven't been able to get out of bed. The first and most important skill a non-neurotypical person can learn is how to not push past limits and how to replenish themselves and refill the battery. For a lot of us, this means having ample alone time without sensory distractions or social demands.
posted by Acheman at 4:10 AM on March 7, 2018 [4 favorites]

Extrapolating into the future you are both, in different ways, envisioning for him, imagine this: he applies to Chicago and doesn't get in because he doesn't have enough extracurriculars. It's a shitty lesson to learn, but a valuable one to learn directly -- and it's not the end of the world, either.

But also consider that in the years between now and college, a million things could change and a million new ideas could occur to him about his life and interests.

It sounds like you've been clear with him that if he really wants to achieve goal A, he needs to do tasks x, y and z. The ball's in his court. Continue to support him but let him do the work to get there and otherwise let him explore his own world, in his own time.
posted by Mrs. Rattery at 4:47 AM on March 7, 2018

Are you sure he wasn’t being bullied at math team? It isn’t just jocks that bully (if, indeed, it ever was). If he was, bringing it up might be stirring some unpleasant memories for him. Maybe look for activities that aren’t at his school and aren’t with other middle school age kids.
posted by Anne Neville at 6:01 AM on March 7, 2018 [1 favorite]

Being open to what your son finds interesting is the best thing you can do as a parent. 11 is young and he's finding his way. As long as you are prepared to help him when he finds what he wants to do, even if it's not apparent now, that means you are being a good parent.

As you said, this question is about you. I'm constantly surprised at what my kids are and are not interested in. The best thing my parents did for me was give me agency. The worst thing was when they expected me to react to things the same way they did, because I was me and not them. Now that I'm a parent I can empathise a bit more with their frustration but I still remember what it was like when I was a kid. I would encourage you to to try and remember that too.

He's not doing nothing. He's interacting with friends and what he does now does not necessarily represent what he'll do next. Keep offering him options and listen to him when he talks to you about what he's interested in and things will hopefully work out.

You may have to hide your frustration from him but that's okay. Hopefully your friends and/or your partner will be there for you to vent to and as your son gets older you'll be able to work together to find something that works for him. It's a long game you're playing and he'll need your support in all kinds of ways as time goes on.
posted by h00py at 6:37 AM on March 7, 2018 [2 favorites]

For whatever another personal reminiscence is worth: I was an 11 year old with a lot of undiagnosed and untreated anxiety and depression, and quite likely some other issues that never have been fully diagnosed, at a time when the internet wasn't really a thing yet and I was the only kid I knew offline who had it. But I had it and I spent a lot of time immersed in it and it, quite literally, saved my life. My school social life was miserable and when I thought I was completely alone and always would be, and when just trying to get my difficult brain through the way was exhausting, knowing there were people like me *somewhere* out in the world and that I could go home and talk to them was the main thing that kept me anything like functional.

I'm sure to my parents it looked like "kid is fooling around on the internet doing nothing", but I was finding my people, learning to write and tell stories with them, learning to be emotionally open and vulnerable with other people and give and accept support, and making friendships that I have to this day, long after I've lost touch with anyone in my actual school life. Which is to say that as others have said above: your child may not be "doing nothing" even if it looks like it to you. It might be worth having some dialogue about what he is doing and what he's excited about and what it means to him.

As another thought, though, one thing that did at least sort of work for me was getting me involved in an outside activity that was not with my school friends, and was only tangentially social in nature. For me it was art classes. Once a week I went to my art teacher's house with ten or so other kids, and we all worked on our individual projects with whatever medium/subject matter suited us. We chatted a bit with each other and mostly with our teacher, and it was a way to get some social interaction in without being overwhelming to my anxious-and-bad-at-social-stuff self. It was critical that it not be people from school; there was, after all a reason, I wasn't into doing at-school clubs, and it was partly about those kids. Potentially there might be something like that, that would work for you kid.

Basically, it sounds to me like maybe he needs to take a few steps toward you if he can by being open to some changes in how he spends his time, if his neuroatypical brain will let him do that, but you need to take several really big steps toward rethinking your idea of what an "interesting" person is, of the value of new experiences, and of whether your wants for your son are about him or about you. His specialists, and possibly a therapist of your own, might be good resources here. That you're asking the question is great; you sound like an engaged and caring parent. You just also sound like one who may need to recalibrate a little bit what your specific child needs.
posted by Stacey at 7:10 AM on March 7, 2018 [2 favorites]

Since you asked about advice for yourself, it made me think of something I've heard some mothers say. "Love the kid you have, not the kid you want." Of course, we know you love him! This saying is about accepting your child as they are and their limitations. You know your kid better than any of us--sometimes a child's limitations are something that just have to be accepted, sometimes they can stretch against those limitations and change them somewhat. I do not know where your kid's limitations and ability to stretch are, but maybe this saying will help you when you're super frustrated.
posted by purple_bird at 9:19 AM on March 7, 2018 [3 favorites]

Don't force your kid to do anything. He will only resent you for it. I mean, chores and such are fine and should be expected, but making him do sports or a mandatory instrument will probably backfire.

Do take a step back and let him come to you with their interests, even if it takes a few years, instead of breathing down his neck. The best way to kill your son's interest in doing anything is to watch him like a hawk and put opportunities in front of him like bait. It becomes about you, not him. Kids know it. They'll bury themselves in books, as I did, to escape the pressure, or, in this day and age, gaming.

I would also take a look at your home environment and see if there are factors there, such as a dysfunctional relationship with a partner or spouse, that may be contributing to his need/desire to shut out the present.
posted by Crystal Fox at 9:24 AM on March 7, 2018 [2 favorites]

Chiming back in - as someone who discovered and started playing D&D at the ripe age of 25, I am so jealous that your son already has weekly D&D sessions at such a young age. It is really hard to regularly plan for them when your peers gets older. See The Onion article here: Group Finally Schedules Conversation about How Much Fun It Would Be to Play D&D Some Time
posted by yueliang at 2:15 PM on March 7, 2018

I also am echoing Crystal Fox - my classmates were consistently jealous of how my mom parented me and how I had so much free time, because their childhoods were exactly like how Crystal Fox described it. They just didn't have much downtime to themselves or have space to breathe or to contemplate. Just don't do it!
posted by yueliang at 2:23 PM on March 7, 2018

Again, this is about me, not about him.

Is it worth making this about him? Support his choices, be on his side. Maybe it's the wrong choice, but at least he knows you'll have his back and will work together to make it right.

Also, get therapy and forgive yourself imo.
posted by fullerine at 8:28 PM on March 7, 2018 [1 favorite]

I know you say it's about you not him... but it's difficult to separate since you are reacting to him and vice versa. You mentioned his peer group (or lack therof?) a couple of times. If I were a parent I would be very concerned if my kid didn't have friends. Is this the case here?

There's nothing wrong in my view with a parent forcing a kid to play a sport or force them to at least pick one social activity to do outside of school. Especially in this age where kids are losing so many of their social skills due to the proliferation of daily interaction with technology.

I always thought that if I had a kid in this situation I'd say something like this "You're not sitting home playing video games all day so here's a list of available options. You pick one or I'll pick one for you." My aunt did this with her kids and they turned out better for it.
posted by fantasticness at 9:58 PM on March 7, 2018 [1 favorite]

Speaking as a former kid who was forced to participate in a sport, don't do this to your child. I'm sure the other answerers mean well, but if your kid doesn't want to do it, all they'll learn from being forced into something like that is resentment.
posted by Aleyn at 11:26 PM on March 7, 2018 [3 favorites]

I am "an interesting and well rounded person who thinks about the world". Literally that's how most people describe me. I'm a "do ALL the things!" kind of person and am also extroverted (though often anxious). And I am that person not because of school, but despite school.

My school (and well the national education system of the country I grew up in) did not treat 'outsiders' all that well: as a racial minority, I was vilified for doing well and being active in school because "how can the minority kid do better than us Majority-Race people". I was expected to conform to Straight A High Achiever standards like everyone else in the country, but I was also punished for doing so. I entered a lot of competitions and did well, but besides trophies I'd only get resentment. I nearly took my life in school at age 11 because I couldn't handle it anymore - all that happened was that another student there told me I'd go to hell. I dimly remember being involved in extra curricular activities, but the overarching memory was that my presence was unwanted.

There was also this overarching attitude that applied to everyone that you're sorta allowed one 'hobby' but otherwise you have to devote your energies to studies, and you're only allowed to pursue a sport or specialised skill if you were immediately talented at it. I was hopeless at sports so didn't last very long since no one was motivated to help me get better (I did swimming in primary school but nearly drowned one class and never went back), and I wasn't allowed to pursue physical stuff that I would have actually been interested in, like dance or gymnastics, because either they just didn't exist or they wouldn't let the "fat kid" do it.

When I went into secondary school, there were more opportunities to get involved in things and the racial pressures were a little less intense but they were still sorta there. I did find a handful of clubs to really get involved in, more so than primary school, but my main entertainment was always outside school. My family had also moved to somewhere far away from the city, and between the lack of public transport in my area and my parents pretty much not letting me do anything alone for fear of me being killed every five seconds, I pretty much stayed home. I spent a lot of time on the Internet - it was my main social outlet. I got a lot done online - met tons of people, wrote a ton, even got involved with a TV station that ended up being where I had my first job many years later.

I was in a situation that didn't really encourage me to be an "interesting person"; I had to figure that out for myself, and that was usually through the Internet or books. You haven't talked about how he is being treated at school - is he an outcast? Does he have friends? Is he also in an environment of "if you're not immediately good at something you might as well not try"? Can he trust the teachers? Is he being bullied? Is school safe for him?

The "interesting" things I did around school age mostly happened outside school; almost all of them were online. If it weren't for the Internet I'd be dead. I found more opportunities for my interestingness after I was done with school - I had slightly more mobility and there were more opportunities that didn't care about my newbie status so much.

Your kid's 11. He'll be fine. He may not be "interesting enough" for you yet (he sounds plenty interesting to me) but he sounds like he knows how to keep himself interested.

Why not do things that make you interesting? Are you trying to live vicariously through him? Maybe some of your anxiety can be relieved by you getting involved in things. (My mum became 10000000000x more bearable to deal with when she got so involved in a new project that she actually asks me permission to ignore me for a while. OMG YES GO DO YOUR THING) Let your son grow in his own time while you be the interesting person you want him to be.
posted by divabat at 2:23 AM on March 8, 2018 [3 favorites]

Aleyn: But what if you had the option to pick anything you wanted? The forcing being only that you are forced to pick from a plethora of sports or other activities? I don't think resentment would ensue then.

I know tons of people who grew resentful from being forced into things as children, but they all had one thing in common- They didn't have any say in the matter at all. If you tell a kid they can pick whatever they want to do, but they do have to DO something, it's very different.

Also I'm having a hard time figuring how a parent can go out and find her own interests and activities if she has a kid in the house doing nothing all day. Isn't it easier to do that while he's out being watched by a baseball coach, drama teacher or piano instructor? Maybe I'm not seeing the whole picture.
posted by fantasticness at 11:51 AM on March 8, 2018 [1 favorite]

As mentioned a few times, the kid isn't "doing nothing" - he has appointments, a regular father/son night, and keeps himself busy with video games with friends across the country. And Mum doesn't have to find stuff that involves leaving the house either! My mum did an interior design course by correspondence when I was growing up and it kept the both of us entertained.
posted by divabat at 2:03 PM on March 8, 2018

Best answer: I'm interested by your ending your question with "that's not the parent I want to be." Well all right, he's not the kid you want him to be either. But both of you are the people you are. So step one for you is maybe to recognize that you're not maybe exactly the person you thought?

FWIW I don't think being a parent who is perplexed and frustrated by their kid is a BAD kind of parent, or person. I just think you maybe have some preconceived values and ideas that bear scrutiny. Like, what it means to be well-rounded. What it means to be engaged. Are your ideas of what that looks like truly universal? Are you possibly missing the forest for the trees, because while you're flipping your shit because your kid isn't a drama nerd, he's quietly plotting to, like, start his own business? Or possibly he's just white knuckling it through his life, and needing literally 10 hours of pure decompression so he doesn't implode?

You might also take a second to think about what it means when a kid sets a goal for college at age 11 (Hint: it means absolutely zilch. When I was 11 I said I was going to join the FBI, lol).

BUT: you are also a parent, and you get to decide what that means.

Maybe for you being a parent means you actually do push the kid out of his comfort zone and that's your right and obligation as a parent. It's a completely valid way to parent.

I say all this as someone whose parents leaned so heavily on the "kids are self-determining" side that I never even had (desperately needed) orthodontia. They were happy to let me live with the pure consequences of all my own choices, insofar as I wasn't putting myself in active danger. Honestly, apart from the orthodontia, it all worked out fine. I got fine grades, eventually figured out that I'd have to do the Dreaded Extracurriculars (which I did dozens of, and HATED, so MUCH, oh my GOD, did I HATE them, but I did them) to get into my good desired college, and then got into, attended, and graduated from that college.

Even so, if one of them had said "quit your whining, you're taking piano" I would still love them, and I would know how to play piano, to boot.

So yeah I guess my advice to you is:
1) honestly assess what kind of parent you ARE, not what kind of parent you expected to be
2) decide what that means re: your ability to lay down the law

and possibly 3: model doing extracurricular stuff for your kid. You want him to join drama? Well there's plenty of community theater for grownups, and if you start gettin' involved, and the kid has to hang out at your rehearsals, etc., well...he might just find himself interested.
posted by We put our faith in Blast Hardcheese at 2:54 PM on March 8, 2018

Not really an answer, exactly, but a couple of thoughts from a non-neurotypical who sounds quite a bit like your son; I spent most of my childhood reading, and now I'm an engaged and enthusiastic adult with many weird hobbies and many weird friends that make me very happy.
- Your kid's probably tired. I know 8 hours of school wiped me right out as a kid. School is stressful, loud and exhausting. He probably desperately needs some unstructured time away from face to face social interaction.
- This isn't a universal truth, but I don't think lots of structured activities necessarily make for a well-rounded or interesting person. Often the most passionate and interesting and colourful people are the ones who had the time and space to find out what made them light up for themselves.
I don't mean it's not good to encourage kids to look for new things to try, but time to rest and recharge and just be without having someone else decide what you'll do next is precious and necessary. Try to think of downtime as productive time for him, not wasted time.
- Maybe look (or let him look) for stuff that has nothing to do with school. I know the only extracurriculars I ever enjoyed and stuck with weren't school based. Even if he's not actually bullied at school, I've never met a neuroatypical who wanted to spend a second more at school than they absolutely had to. Even the nicest schools tend to be hard work to cope with.
I'm really glad that you're thinking about this the way you are, and I honestly think if you let him have his breathing space, he'll be fine.
posted by BlueNorther at 4:03 PM on March 18, 2018 [4 favorites]

This is a really interesting thread, I've enjoyed reading the range of perspectives. I agree with most of the above, especially:

1) It's clear you're coming from a place of love and wanting all the best for your kiddo
2) Wanting him to get involved with something is not a bad goal, especially if it's something active/outside
3) Just because he doesn't want to get involved NOW, that doesn't mean he won't find things to get involved in as he gets older

A couple more thoughts on these things:
-Remember that he's at a particular developmental stage. Kids go through all sorts of stages where their behaviours or attitudes are frustrating to us as parents. The good news is that they keep growing and changing, and often grow out of whatever it was that was stressing you out
-I don't think it's bad at all to require he become involved in something. Like other posters have pointed out, this opens up new experiences and peer groups, and gives kid some data to figure out what he actually likes/doesn't like. It might be good to do some looking into different types of things available in your city, and provide him the maximum amount of choice, as he might have very good reasons for wanting to avoid school-based activities. He also just might have key interests that are not reflected in school.

Best of luck OP!
posted by DTMFA at 11:15 AM on November 8, 2018