Is there anything concerning about this Tinder experience?
November 9, 2017 4:37 PM Subscribe
My friend's date suggested they rent a place in the city for two nights -- as their second date. I can't think of any specific concerns, but it's like nothing I've ever heard of. Two nights? Before they've even kissed? There's not some kind of well-known "Tinder Airbnb scam" I've never heard of, right?
His date is apparently extraordinarily beautiful and came on very strong, getting pretty handsy during the date and asking afterwards whether he'd like to spend the night. My friend is 27. He's sexually inexperienced, having never been in a relationship, and has been on other Tinder dates that didn't go that way pretty much at all, so he's obviously incredibly excited. It's not like I think he's a mark -- just, you know, backstory.
He didn't get any weird vibes from her on their first date, and the picture he painted makes it seem like she is a real person, just extraordinarily confident, cool and carefree. She paid for a $100 meal before even suggesting the second date, so I doubt there's some kind of money scam going on.
I'm not really concerned -- probably he has just met an incredibly cool person who really likes him, and is about to have a truly remarkable second date. Just... checking.
His date is apparently extraordinarily beautiful and came on very strong, getting pretty handsy during the date and asking afterwards whether he'd like to spend the night. My friend is 27. He's sexually inexperienced, having never been in a relationship, and has been on other Tinder dates that didn't go that way pretty much at all, so he's obviously incredibly excited. It's not like I think he's a mark -- just, you know, backstory.
He didn't get any weird vibes from her on their first date, and the picture he painted makes it seem like she is a real person, just extraordinarily confident, cool and carefree. She paid for a $100 meal before even suggesting the second date, so I doubt there's some kind of money scam going on.
I'm not really concerned -- probably he has just met an incredibly cool person who really likes him, and is about to have a truly remarkable second date. Just... checking.
I'm not sure what your question is. Yes, this is extremely concerning. It sounds like your friend is very likely about to get scammed. I would strongly advise him to slow things down and propose a safer second date. Someone this genuinely enthusiastic about him should be willing to do that.
posted by telegraph at 4:47 PM on November 9, 2017 [34 favorites]
posted by telegraph at 4:47 PM on November 9, 2017 [34 favorites]
this feels super weird unless they're both living at home with parents or both married.
posted by poffin boffin at 4:53 PM on November 9, 2017 [16 favorites]
posted by poffin boffin at 4:53 PM on November 9, 2017 [16 favorites]
Someone invited me to Paris for the weekend for a second date. Pretty sure we'd not kissed by that point.
I declined, and the most important thing was that that was no problem. We had an equally hedonistic weekend for our second date, without the air travel.
So no, I don't think this is weird, just perhaps unusual.
posted by DarlingBri at 4:53 PM on November 9, 2017 [10 favorites]
I declined, and the most important thing was that that was no problem. We had an equally hedonistic weekend for our second date, without the air travel.
So no, I don't think this is weird, just perhaps unusual.
posted by DarlingBri at 4:53 PM on November 9, 2017 [10 favorites]
The thing for me is the fact that this happens all the time in reverse, gender-wise. Man pays for the meal, gets handsy, wants woman to sleep over, suggests extravagant and kinda-inappropriate second date.
The fact that the roles are reversed is definitely unusual, and it kind of seems like the setup for a confidence scam, if your friend is wealthy and if this is a movie. This is real life, and my guess is your friend isn't that wealthy, or you would have mentioned it.
Obviously your friend should be careful and should avoid making sudden life changes like marrying this woman next weekend, buying her a car, signing anything, getting her pregnant, inviting her to move in with him, quitting his job, that sort of thing. Otherwise I would just go with the flow.
posted by Slinga at 5:01 PM on November 9, 2017 [5 favorites]
The fact that the roles are reversed is definitely unusual, and it kind of seems like the setup for a confidence scam, if your friend is wealthy and if this is a movie. This is real life, and my guess is your friend isn't that wealthy, or you would have mentioned it.
Obviously your friend should be careful and should avoid making sudden life changes like marrying this woman next weekend, buying her a car, signing anything, getting her pregnant, inviting her to move in with him, quitting his job, that sort of thing. Otherwise I would just go with the flow.
posted by Slinga at 5:01 PM on November 9, 2017 [5 favorites]
I absolutely think your friend is going to get hurt. She's creating a carefree persona but every detail is controlled and planned. Like, of course he didn't get 'weird vibes' from her--shes gorgeous and thrilling and he wants to fuck her. But he doesn't know a damn thing about this woman, what she's into or who she knows.
Throwing a hundo down for dinner doesn't mean she's not looking to take him for all he's worth, even if he's not rich. you can force a regular, middle-class guy to cough up everything in his checking at gunpoint if one is so inclined.
He's probably going to go through with this, because he wants to have two days of sex, but you should at the very least warn him. This is weird and unwise.
posted by queen_mob at 5:06 PM on November 9, 2017 [13 favorites]
Throwing a hundo down for dinner doesn't mean she's not looking to take him for all he's worth, even if he's not rich. you can force a regular, middle-class guy to cough up everything in his checking at gunpoint if one is so inclined.
He's probably going to go through with this, because he wants to have two days of sex, but you should at the very least warn him. This is weird and unwise.
posted by queen_mob at 5:06 PM on November 9, 2017 [13 favorites]
I’m probably more cautious than most, but here’s the scenario I’m imagining:
The woman is working for a criminal group that uses her good looks and perceived financial largesse to lure men into situations where their stuff can be stolen or worse.
posted by delight at 5:08 PM on November 9, 2017 [12 favorites]
The woman is working for a criminal group that uses her good looks and perceived financial largesse to lure men into situations where their stuff can be stolen or worse.
posted by delight at 5:08 PM on November 9, 2017 [12 favorites]
She paid for a $100 meal before even suggesting the second date, so I doubt there's some kind of money scam going on.
That is what the scam artist wants you to believe - that they don't need your money. The $100 is their investment in their scam, whether they're going to rob his apartment while he's away, or whatever else they might have planned. There's no crime in taking things slow, so I'd suggest to your friend that he slows things down, just to weed out any other motives she might have, and plan a casual second date.
posted by NoraCharles at 5:09 PM on November 9, 2017 [56 favorites]
That is what the scam artist wants you to believe - that they don't need your money. The $100 is their investment in their scam, whether they're going to rob his apartment while he's away, or whatever else they might have planned. There's no crime in taking things slow, so I'd suggest to your friend that he slows things down, just to weed out any other motives she might have, and plan a casual second date.
posted by NoraCharles at 5:09 PM on November 9, 2017 [56 favorites]
Right, if this were a movie, I would believe that's a possibility. It just seems unlikely that this is going to happen in real life.
If you want to rob someone's apartment, you just kick down the door and walk in there when they're not home. If you want to rob someone at gunpoint, you do so. This seems a little elaborate for a scam, unless we're in a movie, in which case it's normal.
Your friend is free to suggest a casual second date, whatever. I think he should definitely go in with both eyes open, and maybe leave his credit cards at home.
posted by Slinga at 5:12 PM on November 9, 2017 [1 favorite]
If you want to rob someone's apartment, you just kick down the door and walk in there when they're not home. If you want to rob someone at gunpoint, you do so. This seems a little elaborate for a scam, unless we're in a movie, in which case it's normal.
Your friend is free to suggest a casual second date, whatever. I think he should definitely go in with both eyes open, and maybe leave his credit cards at home.
posted by Slinga at 5:12 PM on November 9, 2017 [1 favorite]
Best answer: Even if it's not a scam... this sounds like not such a great idea?
Like, trying to go from "sexually inexperienced" to "bone machine" over the course of one weekend might be setting the both of them up for frustration.
Even if she just wants him for the sexytimes, well...it's good to have enough emotional intimacy to smooth over the inevitable awkward parts. Some people can bluster with a mix of experience and (over)confidence as well, but if your friend hasn't had a long term relationship yet, let's be honest, he's not that sort of person.
Do something casual. Build up some interest and excitement and emotional connection. It'll make things better when they do happen.
posted by Zalzidrax at 5:16 PM on November 9, 2017 [21 favorites]
Like, trying to go from "sexually inexperienced" to "bone machine" over the course of one weekend might be setting the both of them up for frustration.
Even if she just wants him for the sexytimes, well...it's good to have enough emotional intimacy to smooth over the inevitable awkward parts. Some people can bluster with a mix of experience and (over)confidence as well, but if your friend hasn't had a long term relationship yet, let's be honest, he's not that sort of person.
Do something casual. Build up some interest and excitement and emotional connection. It'll make things better when they do happen.
posted by Zalzidrax at 5:16 PM on November 9, 2017 [21 favorites]
People will absolutely run elaborate scams to rob horny rubes. It happens all the time. Just ask John Bolaris.
posted by queen_mob at 5:19 PM on November 9, 2017 [9 favorites]
posted by queen_mob at 5:19 PM on November 9, 2017 [9 favorites]
Fuck no. I can't even believe people think this could possibly be a good idea.
posted by lyssabee at 5:24 PM on November 9, 2017 [15 favorites]
posted by lyssabee at 5:24 PM on November 9, 2017 [15 favorites]
Yeah, it’s possible they’ll just have a good time but it seems over-the-top suspicious to me, I wouldn’t risk it.
posted by STFUDonnie at 5:28 PM on November 9, 2017 [1 favorite]
posted by STFUDonnie at 5:28 PM on November 9, 2017 [1 favorite]
She paid for a $100 meal before even suggesting the second date, so I doubt there's some kind of money scam going on.
Are Tinder first dates usually this extravagant? This whole thing stinks to high heaven. Hard pass.
posted by Room 641-A at 5:29 PM on November 9, 2017 [7 favorites]
Are Tinder first dates usually this extravagant? This whole thing stinks to high heaven. Hard pass.
posted by Room 641-A at 5:29 PM on November 9, 2017 [7 favorites]
The more I think about this, the more convinced I am that your friend will come to significant bodily or financial harm if he complies with her plans.
posted by delight at 5:45 PM on November 9, 2017 [8 favorites]
posted by delight at 5:45 PM on November 9, 2017 [8 favorites]
IDK why people think bad things only happen in the movies. Confidence scams, elaborate robberies, organ harvesting etc. are real things that happen every day in the real world. Maybe that's not happening here but something definitely feels off about this.
Tell your friend to
a) Ignore his genitals and slowwwww things down
b) Get her full name (if possible seeing some form of id) and do some internet sleuthing
posted by mannequito at 5:59 PM on November 9, 2017 [12 favorites]
Tell your friend to
a) Ignore his genitals and slowwwww things down
b) Get her full name (if possible seeing some form of id) and do some internet sleuthing
posted by mannequito at 5:59 PM on November 9, 2017 [12 favorites]
When my husband and I met, I was perpetually weirded out by how he wanted us to spend our time. Turns out we just we were just coming from very different financial capacities. As much as I was uncomfortable going to a restaurant with a dress code and a minimum $80 meal, sans drinks, he was uncomfortable swilling Miller High Life in the smoky dive bar that I fancied.
You're not hearing red flags, you're hearing recommendations from different people, of different means and experiences. No weird vibes aside from this? Sounds like they might be different enough as to have a lot to talk about, at the very least.
I think the self-selected respondents you might encounter here tend to err on the side of extreme caution, so maybe keep that in mind? By their judgment I wouldn't have lasted long enough to get to know the man I married. He did not harvest my organs.
posted by late afternoon dreaming hotel at 6:01 PM on November 9, 2017 [16 favorites]
You're not hearing red flags, you're hearing recommendations from different people, of different means and experiences. No weird vibes aside from this? Sounds like they might be different enough as to have a lot to talk about, at the very least.
I think the self-selected respondents you might encounter here tend to err on the side of extreme caution, so maybe keep that in mind? By their judgment I wouldn't have lasted long enough to get to know the man I married. He did not harvest my organs.
posted by late afternoon dreaming hotel at 6:01 PM on November 9, 2017 [16 favorites]
Yeah, um, she has some issue she wants to force.
1. Does he have a high security clearance?
2. Does he work in tech where he is in a creative group working on new patents?
3. Does he work in diplomacy or in some area where embarrassing images would hurt him?
4. Is he an attorney working on a high profile case?
5. Is he a broker who can be shaken down for info.
Advances in dating anesthesiology make a two day date, an forgettable experience. He can wake up without a kidney, remember that nightmare? Are his parents wealthy? Is he being kidnapped?
posted by Oyéah at 6:06 PM on November 9, 2017 [8 favorites]
1. Does he have a high security clearance?
2. Does he work in tech where he is in a creative group working on new patents?
3. Does he work in diplomacy or in some area where embarrassing images would hurt him?
4. Is he an attorney working on a high profile case?
5. Is he a broker who can be shaken down for info.
Advances in dating anesthesiology make a two day date, an forgettable experience. He can wake up without a kidney, remember that nightmare? Are his parents wealthy? Is he being kidnapped?
posted by Oyéah at 6:06 PM on November 9, 2017 [8 favorites]
It’s not the wealth alone, it’s the confluence of conspicuous spending + otherworldly beauty + enthusiasm that the guy doesn’t usually attract + urgency to get him alone. Sometimes things are too good to be true. And if it’s not a scam, it’ll be worth the wait.
posted by delight at 6:06 PM on November 9, 2017 [25 favorites]
posted by delight at 6:06 PM on November 9, 2017 [25 favorites]
Yes, RED FLAGS! But good luck convincing your friend to not go on a second date with a sexy lady who seems to be into him.
posted by a strong female character at 6:17 PM on November 9, 2017
posted by a strong female character at 6:17 PM on November 9, 2017
You people are fucking paranoid. She’s eccentric, maybe, but this is totally within the realm of (fun) normalcy. The biggest concern is that it would turn out being awkward.
Organ harvesting. My god.
posted by mr_roboto at 6:18 PM on November 9, 2017 [33 favorites]
Organ harvesting. My god.
posted by mr_roboto at 6:18 PM on November 9, 2017 [33 favorites]
Best answer: Yeah, I am not a fan of the kidney theft myth thing showing up here.
I dated a guy who came on strong like this once and he didn't want to steal my organs, he was just a fucking creep. This woman sounds like a creep of some kind.
posted by sockermom at 6:20 PM on November 9, 2017 [21 favorites]
I dated a guy who came on strong like this once and he didn't want to steal my organs, he was just a fucking creep. This woman sounds like a creep of some kind.
posted by sockermom at 6:20 PM on November 9, 2017 [21 favorites]
I wonder if she saw the Nashville episode of Master of None. That's the first thing I thought of when I read this. Odds are she's just trying to be the person her social media is selling: extraordinarily confident, cool and carefree.
Regardless, I wouldn't go. Because like, I think it's 70/30 that she's living her Manic Pixie Dream Girl dreams, but the 30% is definitely she robs you, so.
posted by goodbyewaffles at 6:28 PM on November 9, 2017 [9 favorites]
Regardless, I wouldn't go. Because like, I think it's 70/30 that she's living her Manic Pixie Dream Girl dreams, but the 30% is definitely she robs you, so.
posted by goodbyewaffles at 6:28 PM on November 9, 2017 [9 favorites]
Best answer: It will cost him nothing to take things a bit slower - if she's genuinely keen now, she will be later too. It could cost a fair bit in some other way though, if he ignores the red flags and throws caution to the wind.
posted by Jubey at 6:33 PM on November 9, 2017 [14 favorites]
posted by Jubey at 6:33 PM on November 9, 2017 [14 favorites]
I don't think anyone is seriously suggesting that he's going to get an organ stolen. But he will probably get robbed. That's a realistic concern.
posted by a strong female character at 6:35 PM on November 9, 2017 [2 favorites]
posted by a strong female character at 6:35 PM on November 9, 2017 [2 favorites]
This seems too good to be true.
The $100 dinner actually makes me more suspicious.
One thing missing is the connection between the two people— this frankly sounds like she was forcing some sort of “sexy” act, not like two people who hit it off famously.
I know a lot of “confident, carefree, cool” people but only the predatory ones try to force a relationship so strongly before there’s a connection.
posted by kapers at 6:42 PM on November 9, 2017 [3 favorites]
The $100 dinner actually makes me more suspicious.
One thing missing is the connection between the two people— this frankly sounds like she was forcing some sort of “sexy” act, not like two people who hit it off famously.
I know a lot of “confident, carefree, cool” people but only the predatory ones try to force a relationship so strongly before there’s a connection.
posted by kapers at 6:42 PM on November 9, 2017 [3 favorites]
Yeah that reads really fishy to me in a too-good-to-be-true sort of way. He should suggest a smaller date and see what happens.
FWIW I immediately pictured a scene from an episode of Seinfeld where George is handcuffed to a bed while his wallet and clothes were stolen by a woman that wooed him on the subway.
posted by littlesq at 6:47 PM on November 9, 2017 [11 favorites]
FWIW I immediately pictured a scene from an episode of Seinfeld where George is handcuffed to a bed while his wallet and clothes were stolen by a woman that wooed him on the subway.
posted by littlesq at 6:47 PM on November 9, 2017 [11 favorites]
If something seems too good to be true, it almost always is. He loses nothing by slowing things down, except maybe a great fantasy date.
Agree that this sounds both creepy and predatory.
posted by dancing_angel at 6:47 PM on November 9, 2017 [3 favorites]
Agree that this sounds both creepy and predatory.
posted by dancing_angel at 6:47 PM on November 9, 2017 [3 favorites]
Response by poster: He has zero money and lives on financial aid.
But it's true, there's no reason not to decline (for now). Instead of spending a weekend together they can go to the zoo, or something. If she likes him and isn't creepy, that won't be a problem; if it's a problem, he shouldn't be doing this anyhow, whether you believe in kidney-stealing or not.
Declining a weekend of sex would be tough, I'm sure; but he's not declining it, just postponing. I'll tell him to go with the no-risk option and tell her he'd rather do [normal thing occurring during daylight hours] first.
posted by a birds at 6:53 PM on November 9, 2017 [8 favorites]
But it's true, there's no reason not to decline (for now). Instead of spending a weekend together they can go to the zoo, or something. If she likes him and isn't creepy, that won't be a problem; if it's a problem, he shouldn't be doing this anyhow, whether you believe in kidney-stealing or not.
Declining a weekend of sex would be tough, I'm sure; but he's not declining it, just postponing. I'll tell him to go with the no-risk option and tell her he'd rather do [normal thing occurring during daylight hours] first.
posted by a birds at 6:53 PM on November 9, 2017 [8 favorites]
Nobody's going to get their kidney harvested, but if she had a specific Airbnb in mind, and that Airbnb's an especially pricy one, can't be cancelled, and she expects your friend to put it on his credit card (even if she promises to pay it back), I'd place bets that your friend will get stood up and that Airbnb is owned by someone in cahoots with your friend's date.
posted by eschatfische at 7:09 PM on November 9, 2017 [14 favorites]
posted by eschatfische at 7:09 PM on November 9, 2017 [14 favorites]
I came back to say something similar to what eschatfische said— Airbnb in particular is rife with scam listings and lookalike phishing sites and links or people who won’t accept payment through the site and “need” you to wire the money, etc. If he does go through with this, he should be very wary of anything having to do with Airbnb payment, and especially any situation in which he’s asked to pay outside the site, where he’s given a link instead of finding it himself, where she has found the listing, etc.
posted by kapers at 7:22 PM on November 9, 2017 [5 favorites]
posted by kapers at 7:22 PM on November 9, 2017 [5 favorites]
Like attracts like. Why would a wealthy, confident, gorgeous, worldly woman be falling all over herself to spend time and money and energy on a broke, inexperienced, awkward dude she met yesterday and hasn't had any time to forge an actual connection with? Makes no sense. Scam. I don't know what the scam is, but it's a scam.
posted by pseudostrabismus at 7:24 PM on November 9, 2017 [28 favorites]
posted by pseudostrabismus at 7:24 PM on November 9, 2017 [28 favorites]
And why an AirBnB and not a hotel? And who's renting it? Weird. I don't like it.
posted by vivzan at 7:28 PM on November 9, 2017 [9 favorites]
posted by vivzan at 7:28 PM on November 9, 2017 [9 favorites]
Thanks for the update, because I think 90% of people's concerns could be assuaged with a "just be poor" defense. The best way not to get ripped off is to have nothing to take. Cept his heart, but he can be warned beforehand that it might not last.
I have a higher risk tolerance than a lot of people, so my first impression was that she's a good lookin' career woman who knows what she wants. Is your friend good lookin', too?
posted by rhizome at 7:34 PM on November 9, 2017
I have a higher risk tolerance than a lot of people, so my first impression was that she's a good lookin' career woman who knows what she wants. Is your friend good lookin', too?
posted by rhizome at 7:34 PM on November 9, 2017
Also, if by “sexually inexperienced” you mean “virgin,” or pretty close to being one, even if this isn’t a scam, there no small chance he’d have a terrible time. A two day sexathon sounds amazing in theory but in reality it’s really rare to be up to the task/compatible that way right off the bat.
posted by kapers at 7:37 PM on November 9, 2017 [3 favorites]
posted by kapers at 7:37 PM on November 9, 2017 [3 favorites]
A woman with whom I went to HS and did not see in about 7 years called me out of the blue to invite me to an all expenses paid weekend in the Bahamas that she won for performance at work. I went. It was worth it.
If he has nothing to lose, I would seriously consider participating.
posted by AugustWest at 7:39 PM on November 9, 2017 [7 favorites]
If he has nothing to lose, I would seriously consider participating.
posted by AugustWest at 7:39 PM on November 9, 2017 [7 favorites]
He's sexually inexperienced, having never been in a relationship, and has been on other Tinder dates that didn't go that way pretty much at all,
So maybe he's a bit socially inept and misread an offhand "oh yeah we should totally rent a place for the weekend" as a bit more serious than it actually was?
Renting a place for a weekend affair is hardly outside of the realm of ordinary though. Like a weekend in a hotel is... Not exactly that big of a deal?
Why would a wealthy, confident, gorgeous, worldly woman be falling all over herself to spend time and money and energy on a broke, inexperienced, awkward dude she met yesterday and hasn't had any time to forge an actual connection with?
Because gorgeous, apparently confident and worldly women who are ok with spending money on a date are still people they still get lonely, they still get horny, they still have trouble finding people that they enjoy being around, they are not neccesarily all vapid money hungry monsters, people can be attracted to all kinds of different people, and confident people are confident about pursuing that attraction. An invitation is hardly "falling all over yourself".
Jesus, this place sometimes.
It's a weekend away, she's not asking for his power of attorney. I mean yeah, leave your credit cards at home and don't get married, but come on. She isn't going to harvest your organs or a spy to get secret high clearance info. Good lord.
The worst scenarios that seem realistic I can come up with are a) she's manic b) she is revenge cheating on her significant other c) she is just horny and wants to go for it with someone totally low-stakes and he will be hurt when she's done using him because he will get way too invested.
posted by windykites at 8:13 PM on November 9, 2017 [31 favorites]
So maybe he's a bit socially inept and misread an offhand "oh yeah we should totally rent a place for the weekend" as a bit more serious than it actually was?
Renting a place for a weekend affair is hardly outside of the realm of ordinary though. Like a weekend in a hotel is... Not exactly that big of a deal?
Why would a wealthy, confident, gorgeous, worldly woman be falling all over herself to spend time and money and energy on a broke, inexperienced, awkward dude she met yesterday and hasn't had any time to forge an actual connection with?
Because gorgeous, apparently confident and worldly women who are ok with spending money on a date are still people they still get lonely, they still get horny, they still have trouble finding people that they enjoy being around, they are not neccesarily all vapid money hungry monsters, people can be attracted to all kinds of different people, and confident people are confident about pursuing that attraction. An invitation is hardly "falling all over yourself".
Jesus, this place sometimes.
It's a weekend away, she's not asking for his power of attorney. I mean yeah, leave your credit cards at home and don't get married, but come on. She isn't going to harvest your organs or a spy to get secret high clearance info. Good lord.
The worst scenarios that seem realistic I can come up with are a) she's manic b) she is revenge cheating on her significant other c) she is just horny and wants to go for it with someone totally low-stakes and he will be hurt when she's done using him because he will get way too invested.
posted by windykites at 8:13 PM on November 9, 2017 [31 favorites]
Sex doesn't have to be off the table. They could go on a normal date and they can come back to his place or her place for sex if they are both having a good time and want to have sex. It's not like two people absolutely have to rent an expensive hotel room for two nights to consummate a relationship.
posted by brookeb at 8:23 PM on November 9, 2017 [1 favorite]
posted by brookeb at 8:23 PM on November 9, 2017 [1 favorite]
i'm still not hearing a reason why this situation isn't he invites her back to his home or she invites him back to hers? why is the commercial interaction of renting a 3rd party's home for two nights required for a second date?
posted by poffin boffin at 8:26 PM on November 9, 2017 [12 favorites]
posted by poffin boffin at 8:26 PM on November 9, 2017 [12 favorites]
even if she is not some kind of alien spider queen out to steal his innards, and good luck to her if she is because Tinder is hard for everybody, but even if not, she has extraordinarily bad judgment, even if the money is nothing to her. because why? because you do not put yourself in a position to sleep with a dude multiple times over many many hours until you have slept with him the first time and know it is worth your while. any heterosexual woman with any experience at all knows that. spider queen might be the less awkward option, all things considered.
posted by queenofbithynia at 8:31 PM on November 9, 2017 [29 favorites]
posted by queenofbithynia at 8:31 PM on November 9, 2017 [29 favorites]
why is the commercial interaction of renting a 3rd party's home for two nights required for a second date?
I don't get the impression that it's required, just desired. My only misgiving is that two nights seems ambitious, but what do we know? She could be a great judge of character and is confident they won't hate each other.
You can also tell a lot from a person's response to the question, "are you going to murder me?" I mean, it's an unusual thing, this kind of date, right? Ask a couple of direct "are you going to rip me off?" questions. If she's really this canny she'll know why and at any rate it's totally reasonable to cover that ground in whatever way makes the invitee comfortable. It also puts the other person on notice that you'll be on the lookout for any funny business.
posted by rhizome at 9:21 PM on November 9, 2017 [1 favorite]
I don't get the impression that it's required, just desired. My only misgiving is that two nights seems ambitious, but what do we know? She could be a great judge of character and is confident they won't hate each other.
You can also tell a lot from a person's response to the question, "are you going to murder me?" I mean, it's an unusual thing, this kind of date, right? Ask a couple of direct "are you going to rip me off?" questions. If she's really this canny she'll know why and at any rate it's totally reasonable to cover that ground in whatever way makes the invitee comfortable. It also puts the other person on notice that you'll be on the lookout for any funny business.
posted by rhizome at 9:21 PM on November 9, 2017 [1 favorite]
Response by poster: I didn't expect this to be so popular or I would have added more details to begin with. Was trying to err on the side of brevity so someone would actually read it. I'm usually too long-winded. Sorry about that -- should have at least included the money thing.
Things that were asked or assumed, and which could use clarification:
He has neither money nor security clearance, but is actually very cool, and has over the past few years done enough gym and diet stuff that he's gotten pretty cute. I probably made him sound like a loser since all I said about him was he's sexually inexperienced. No, he's awesome. The coolest. If this doesn't work out, one of you should date him.
She said she is paying for everything, and I had already told him that he had better not go on this date, and had better plan to return early, if that turns out not to be true. After reading these replies I extended that to an insistence that he text her to make sure she knows that he straight up has no money, and that he fully intends to take her up on her offer to pay for everything. "That's cool, right? If not, let's do [fun cheap daytime thing] instead!"
The sex awkwardness thing was discussed thoroughly. That's actually most of what we talked about, not whether it was a scam. The strategy will be less "Pretend you're already a sex god and have a successful two-day fuckfest" and more "Don't even go on this date if you aren't comfortable telling her you're a virgin, and make sure she knows before she books anything that it's unlikely to be a two-day fuckfest."
I do agree it is almost incomprehensibly weird that anyone, regardless of gender and wealth, would plan a two-night stay with someone before even kissing them. One night -- OK, sure. Two?
Could still be somehow sketchy, and I still think he should just say "Hey, actually no" to this one and suggest a more normal second date instead, just because... why not? It should be fine. But he wants to do this, of course. And if he tells her he has no money and she's OK with it, and he tells her he's a virgin and she's OK with it, then I'm kind of out of realistic worries. I don't think anyone is going to get their kidney stolen. So I'll make sure both of those things happen.
posted by a birds at 9:29 PM on November 9, 2017 [5 favorites]
Things that were asked or assumed, and which could use clarification:
He has neither money nor security clearance, but is actually very cool, and has over the past few years done enough gym and diet stuff that he's gotten pretty cute. I probably made him sound like a loser since all I said about him was he's sexually inexperienced. No, he's awesome. The coolest. If this doesn't work out, one of you should date him.
She said she is paying for everything, and I had already told him that he had better not go on this date, and had better plan to return early, if that turns out not to be true. After reading these replies I extended that to an insistence that he text her to make sure she knows that he straight up has no money, and that he fully intends to take her up on her offer to pay for everything. "That's cool, right? If not, let's do [fun cheap daytime thing] instead!"
The sex awkwardness thing was discussed thoroughly. That's actually most of what we talked about, not whether it was a scam. The strategy will be less "Pretend you're already a sex god and have a successful two-day fuckfest" and more "Don't even go on this date if you aren't comfortable telling her you're a virgin, and make sure she knows before she books anything that it's unlikely to be a two-day fuckfest."
I do agree it is almost incomprehensibly weird that anyone, regardless of gender and wealth, would plan a two-night stay with someone before even kissing them. One night -- OK, sure. Two?
Could still be somehow sketchy, and I still think he should just say "Hey, actually no" to this one and suggest a more normal second date instead, just because... why not? It should be fine. But he wants to do this, of course. And if he tells her he has no money and she's OK with it, and he tells her he's a virgin and she's OK with it, then I'm kind of out of realistic worries. I don't think anyone is going to get their kidney stolen. So I'll make sure both of those things happen.
posted by a birds at 9:29 PM on November 9, 2017 [5 favorites]
So, I have actually /totally done this exact fucking thing/. It’s not necessarily indicative of a scam, sometimes just...of a need to keep shit separate. For me, renting a hotel for two nights meant I didn’t have to risk dude being in my shitty NY apt and ruining it or being judgey, and it meant I didn’t have to go to dude’s potential murder palace. 100$ on a meal is totally a thing you can do if your only dating is like, once every month or so.
Like, this is not a great way to build a relationship but I don’t think it’s nefarjous, you know?
posted by corb at 10:23 PM on November 9, 2017 [9 favorites]
Like, this is not a great way to build a relationship but I don’t think it’s nefarjous, you know?
posted by corb at 10:23 PM on November 9, 2017 [9 favorites]
Best answer: Maybe you should not interfere in your friend’s life? Not everyone’s experience is ordinary, and not every scenario that isn’t perfectly mundane is a scam. I can counter every piece of “common sense” in here with a personal experience I actually had that according to the handwringers should have left me dead in a ditch missing organs and credit cards.
If he is as you describe, he has nothing to lose and you’re being a bad friend by introducing anxiety he doesn’t already have. Why would you do this?
posted by danny the boy at 10:47 PM on November 9, 2017 [6 favorites]
If he is as you describe, he has nothing to lose and you’re being a bad friend by introducing anxiety he doesn’t already have. Why would you do this?
posted by danny the boy at 10:47 PM on November 9, 2017 [6 favorites]
I took a cross-country road trip to Brooklyn as my "second date." We stayed for a week and had a blast! Things that made it great: instant chemistry, clear communication, reasonable expectations about fun, sex and money... and a planned escape route for both of us if anything went off the rails.
Could be a great memory. But if you don't feel it, don't do it
posted by fritillary at 11:34 PM on November 9, 2017 [3 favorites]
Could be a great memory. But if you don't feel it, don't do it
posted by fritillary at 11:34 PM on November 9, 2017 [3 favorites]
Be careful. Go for it. Please wear a condom.
posted by Red Desk at 12:16 AM on November 10, 2017 [2 favorites]
posted by Red Desk at 12:16 AM on November 10, 2017 [2 favorites]
She might have kids at home she's not comfortable taking a no strings attached sex partner about, let alone having him over to her place (or a crabby elderly relative! Or an unruly pet!) Hence the need for a third place.
And to some women, the idea of being the instructor to a relatively inexperienced man who is older, consenting and also interested is a very very keen scenario worth a two day date.
posted by dorothyisunderwood at 1:08 AM on November 10, 2017 [4 favorites]
And to some women, the idea of being the instructor to a relatively inexperienced man who is older, consenting and also interested is a very very keen scenario worth a two day date.
posted by dorothyisunderwood at 1:08 AM on November 10, 2017 [4 favorites]
I don’t blame you or anyone for being suspicious. Sounds suspicious to me.
However, surprising things happen in life.
I met a lady on a dating site. First date: dinner and a movie. (And, spending the night at my apartment.) Second date: she moved in. We’ve been ecstatically married seven years. She must be in it for the long con.
Point being, I would never recommend anyone else to follow my example. It’s too fast and too risky. But it worked out great for us.
I agree with suggesting a more modest second date, but I’m a stranger on the internet. If there’s real reason for concern, pre-arrange code words to text for “things are great” or “halp kidney thief!” He may be able to give you permission to see his location on his phone.
posted by The Deej at 5:09 AM on November 10, 2017 [4 favorites]
However, surprising things happen in life.
I met a lady on a dating site. First date: dinner and a movie. (And, spending the night at my apartment.) Second date: she moved in. We’ve been ecstatically married seven years. She must be in it for the long con.
Point being, I would never recommend anyone else to follow my example. It’s too fast and too risky. But it worked out great for us.
I agree with suggesting a more modest second date, but I’m a stranger on the internet. If there’s real reason for concern, pre-arrange code words to text for “things are great” or “halp kidney thief!” He may be able to give you permission to see his location on his phone.
posted by The Deej at 5:09 AM on November 10, 2017 [4 favorites]
Really it sounds like your friend has little to lose; no significant assets, not in a position of power or employed in some way where he could be blackmailed. Doesn't seem like he'd be a target for human trafficking. Suggest he keep someone informed where he is going with maybe an agreement to check at a set interval. Even if the sexy times are a disaster and she ghosts afterwards he's got nothing invested in this relationship. I say go for it with caution. And definitely bring an update.
I'm reminded of this thread on selling a car.
posted by Mitheral at 6:39 AM on November 10, 2017 [1 favorite]
I'm reminded of this thread on selling a car.
posted by Mitheral at 6:39 AM on November 10, 2017 [1 favorite]
Some practical advice for your friend:
* Apply standard safety practices for meeting up with strangers from the internet that women use all the time: let a trusted friend know where you will be and when, and give them some info about the person you are meeting.
* Practice using condoms alone before using them with a partner. (And do use condoms.)
posted by eviemath at 6:58 AM on November 10, 2017 [2 favorites]
* Apply standard safety practices for meeting up with strangers from the internet that women use all the time: let a trusted friend know where you will be and when, and give them some info about the person you are meeting.
* Practice using condoms alone before using them with a partner. (And do use condoms.)
posted by eviemath at 6:58 AM on November 10, 2017 [2 favorites]
I'm reminded of this thread on selling a car. I love this :-)
Op, I'd probably take the lady up on her offer but then I'm generally foolhardy and promiscuous. This may not be good advice for your seemingly innocent friend.
posted by Kwadeng at 9:12 AM on November 10, 2017 [1 favorite]
Op, I'd probably take the lady up on her offer but then I'm generally foolhardy and promiscuous. This may not be good advice for your seemingly innocent friend.
posted by Kwadeng at 9:12 AM on November 10, 2017 [1 favorite]
>His date is apparently extraordinarily beautiful and came on very strong, getting pretty handsy during the date and asking afterwards whether he'd like to spend the night. My friend is 27. He's sexually inexperienced, having never been in a relationship, and has been on other Tinder dates that didn't go that way pretty much at all, so he's obviously incredibly excited.
Is your friend extraordinarily beautiful? If not, it's a scam, or she's absolutely crazy and something bad is going to happen.
posted by GiveUpNed at 10:20 AM on November 10, 2017
Is your friend extraordinarily beautiful? If not, it's a scam, or she's absolutely crazy and something bad is going to happen.
posted by GiveUpNed at 10:20 AM on November 10, 2017
REALLY want to hear how this goes down the line.
posted by gottabefunky at 10:30 AM on November 10, 2017 [5 favorites]
posted by gottabefunky at 10:30 AM on November 10, 2017 [5 favorites]
declining a weekend of sex would be tough, I'm sure; but he's not declining it, just postponing.
yeah, I wanted to focus on this bit too. he's cool but is he sex-positive? does he know what that means? what are his hang-ups regarding his virginity? is he capable of openly and honestly telling her that?
he needs to be able to have insight into that aspect of his life and then also have the ability to be honest about it. if he can be due diligent, I don't think there's much to worry about. the pros is that they get it out of the way real quick and they'll have established a mutual trust over like a pretty major part of any new relationship, the cons are it'll give him the willies to say it out loud because it's hard to be vulnerable about things that society claims are shameful because shaming is the predominant result
posted by runt at 10:42 AM on November 10, 2017 [1 favorite]
yeah, I wanted to focus on this bit too. he's cool but is he sex-positive? does he know what that means? what are his hang-ups regarding his virginity? is he capable of openly and honestly telling her that?
he needs to be able to have insight into that aspect of his life and then also have the ability to be honest about it. if he can be due diligent, I don't think there's much to worry about. the pros is that they get it out of the way real quick and they'll have established a mutual trust over like a pretty major part of any new relationship, the cons are it'll give him the willies to say it out loud because it's hard to be vulnerable about things that society claims are shameful because shaming is the predominant result
posted by runt at 10:42 AM on November 10, 2017 [1 favorite]
This is a neutral comment re: the woman, but I do want to point out that people with no assets can still have their bank accounts drained, identities stolen, etc. I had next to nothing in my checking when my debit card number was stolen and that created a lot of expensive awful stressful havoc for months and months.
posted by kapers at 12:04 PM on November 10, 2017 [2 favorites]
posted by kapers at 12:04 PM on November 10, 2017 [2 favorites]
REALLY want to hear how this goes down the line.
Yeah, please do post a follow-up after there are further developments!
posted by tenderly at 12:15 PM on November 10, 2017 [6 favorites]
Yeah, please do post a follow-up after there are further developments!
posted by tenderly at 12:15 PM on November 10, 2017 [6 favorites]
Definitely gonna vote for "slow it down" even if it doesn't scream "outright scam" to me.
I think a lot of folks in this thread have forgotten just how easy it is to run through $100 in an evening, though:
Two $20 entrees, plus 2 drinks/person at $10 each comes to $80. Plus tax and tip, that's a $100 bill. In a lot of big cities, that's just what you're gonna have to pay for a decent meal and mixed drinks.
posted by explosion at 12:23 PM on November 10, 2017 [2 favorites]
I think a lot of folks in this thread have forgotten just how easy it is to run through $100 in an evening, though:
Two $20 entrees, plus 2 drinks/person at $10 each comes to $80. Plus tax and tip, that's a $100 bill. In a lot of big cities, that's just what you're gonna have to pay for a decent meal and mixed drinks.
posted by explosion at 12:23 PM on November 10, 2017 [2 favorites]
Dating has gotten so... unpredictable, even in the five years since I've left the scene, that I'm not raising an eyebrow reading this story. Most of my close (financially independent, attractive) girlfriends are still single and hearing some of their stories actually makes me think this girl's offer is totally legit and what she probably wants, depending on where they're going, is maybe a companion to take some cute Instagram pictures with or something. On top of the fuckfest, that is.
Sure, it's not exactly commonplace and bold and not something many women would do. But, it looks like she has money to spend, and if she's anywhere close to as beautiful as described, is probably very confident. Heck, I might have done the same thing with my current partner after the amazing first date we had where we talked for hours and didn't kiss except for a quick peck on the lips, except I wouldn't have stayed in the city - I mean, shit, go somewhere nice. There was a time when I'd started making pretty good money and didn't want to settle down when ordinary dating practices like dinner and a movie were just blase and boring. If a potential date was up for it, we'd have driven from LA to Vegas for a Darius Rucker concert within a week of knowing each other - with close friends aware of what we were doing - and had a lot of fun. Oh, wait.
As long as she understands that he's not in a position to pay for this Airbnb, and is likely not going to be having the best sex of her life, I'd say your friend should go for it. If he has a smartphone he can let you or someone else track his location, and send you the address of the Airbnb they rent. You could ask him to text you every couple hours or so to make sure he's still in possession of his organs.
posted by Everydayville at 1:43 PM on November 10, 2017
Sure, it's not exactly commonplace and bold and not something many women would do. But, it looks like she has money to spend, and if she's anywhere close to as beautiful as described, is probably very confident. Heck, I might have done the same thing with my current partner after the amazing first date we had where we talked for hours and didn't kiss except for a quick peck on the lips, except I wouldn't have stayed in the city - I mean, shit, go somewhere nice. There was a time when I'd started making pretty good money and didn't want to settle down when ordinary dating practices like dinner and a movie were just blase and boring. If a potential date was up for it, we'd have driven from LA to Vegas for a Darius Rucker concert within a week of knowing each other - with close friends aware of what we were doing - and had a lot of fun. Oh, wait.
As long as she understands that he's not in a position to pay for this Airbnb, and is likely not going to be having the best sex of her life, I'd say your friend should go for it. If he has a smartphone he can let you or someone else track his location, and send you the address of the Airbnb they rent. You could ask him to text you every couple hours or so to make sure he's still in possession of his organs.
posted by Everydayville at 1:43 PM on November 10, 2017
Good Lord, the concern trolls are up in arms over here. First of all, $100 on a dinner for two in San Fran (your profile says you're in the Bay Area) is not extravagant.
Second of all, this idea that homeboy is going to be robbed/organ-harvested/otherwise used as a pawn in some sinister spy plot is totally absurd.
He should go. He should make clear to this woman all his friends know just where he's staying, and he should check in while he's there (unless it's too great to do so). As others have suggested, he should leave credit cards at home along with general valuables.
Otherwise, I'm with some of the more cogent answers that state the most likely scenario here is that the woman in question is married and wants a weekend of toy-boy action. The idea this is "too good to be true" just because it's just slightly unusual and could be lots of fun is nuts.
As a data point, I know someone in NYC who went on her third Tinder date to Spain with a guy she barely knew, as his wedding guest. Sounded pretty crazy, but they're still together 2 years later. Her organs are in tact.
posted by nonmerci at 2:04 PM on November 10, 2017 [8 favorites]
Second of all, this idea that homeboy is going to be robbed/organ-harvested/otherwise used as a pawn in some sinister spy plot is totally absurd.
He should go. He should make clear to this woman all his friends know just where he's staying, and he should check in while he's there (unless it's too great to do so). As others have suggested, he should leave credit cards at home along with general valuables.
Otherwise, I'm with some of the more cogent answers that state the most likely scenario here is that the woman in question is married and wants a weekend of toy-boy action. The idea this is "too good to be true" just because it's just slightly unusual and could be lots of fun is nuts.
As a data point, I know someone in NYC who went on her third Tinder date to Spain with a guy she barely knew, as his wedding guest. Sounded pretty crazy, but they're still together 2 years later. Her organs are in tact.
posted by nonmerci at 2:04 PM on November 10, 2017 [8 favorites]
He has neither money nor security clearance, but is actually very cool, and has over the past few years done enough gym and diet stuff that he's gotten pretty cute. I probably made him sound like a loser since all I said about him was he's sexually inexperienced. No, he's awesome. The coolest. If this doesn't work out, one of you should date him.
She said she is paying for everything, and I had already told him that he had better not go on this date, and had better plan to return early, if that turns out not to be true. After reading these replies I extended that to an insistence that he text her to make sure she knows that he straight up has no money, and that he fully intends to take her up on her offer to pay for everything. "That's cool, right? If not, let's do [fun cheap daytime thing] instead!"
The sex awkwardness thing was discussed thoroughly. That's actually most of what we talked about, not whether it was a scam. The strategy will be less "Pretend you're already a sex god and have a successful two-day fuckfest" and more "Don't even go on this date if you aren't comfortable telling her you're a virgin, and make sure she knows before she books anything that it's unlikely to be a two-day fuckfest."
So he's a pretty cute guy on the nearing 30's dating scene who's not a jerkward and not taken? ... Yes, wanting to drag him off for a weekend in the city and do all the sexy things to him is tooootally understandable. And if she's paying for everything and you two have talked about the sex stuff already, it sounds like he has all the bases covered. I hope they have a very good time!
posted by Zalzidrax at 4:09 PM on November 10, 2017 [4 favorites]
It is also remotely possible that this attractive woman with money wants to get a room in the city because she likes your friend and wants to sleep with him but also doesn't want to let a stranger know where she lives or go to a stranger's place. Renting a neutral venue under one's control for sexytimes is hardly a novel proposition or the sole domain of the married and the organ-harvesting. Renting it for two days is a little unusual, but maybe she has a couple days off from work and your friend is free. There are so many more innocent explanations for all of this than that the woman is an international identity thief. As a person who dates in a city almost as expensive as the Bay Area, the only thing odd about this story is that they haven't kissed yet, but maybe he didn't want to on the first date because of reasons? If she didn't want to kiss him but did want to spend two nights with him, that's a little strange and I'd ask about that. But otherwise, $100 is a fairly average dinner for two at a nice restaurant, and many people prefer AirBnBs to hotels these days. If he was uncomfortable with jumping into something physical, maybe she suggested renting a place for a couple days so that they could take their time and go at his pace, without deadlines or distractions. Of course he should be safe and take the standard precautions, but she's probably just into him. It does happen, you know, even to the virgins among us. It's often how they get to be not-virgins.
posted by Errant at 5:45 PM on November 14, 2017
posted by Errant at 5:45 PM on November 14, 2017
Any update on this one?
posted by Slinga at 4:25 AM on November 23, 2017 [5 favorites]
posted by Slinga at 4:25 AM on November 23, 2017 [5 favorites]
This thread is closed to new comments.
posted by Slinga at 4:43 PM on November 9, 2017 [3 favorites]