I have three cats. Cat three hates cat one.
June 27, 2017 7:01 AM Subscribe
This is a question about cat behavior in a multi-cat household. I don't want to rehome anyone but things can't continue like this. Details and pictures below the fold.
First, let me introduce the cats.
Zatanna is my sweet old lady cat. She is at least 13, a rescue with a rough early life, who likes to sleep, snuggle, sleep near my side, and not be bothered too much. She's a Maine coon and has that general disposition, and she weighs about eight pounds. I have had her for over 5 years.
Rembrandt, my big sweet baby. He is 7 years old but acts like a kitten. He loves to have his belly rubbed, to sleep next to my head, attention, and food. I've had him for three and a half years.
Stitch is the new guy. He is sweet and affectionate and wants to be carried around and sit in my lap and sleep on my feet. He also loves belly rubs. He is six and I got him in December, via a rather long story involving a friend in prison. He weighs about 12 pounds.
Rembrandt gets along with both the other cats. Both of the other cats get along with him. Stitch and Rembrandt play together and groom each other. Zatanna will happily eat with Rembrandt and she will tolerate him next to her, but she's elderly and not up for his kitten shenanigans. The problem is that if I let Stitch into the same space as Zatanna, he will attack her, and it's not play fighting. Once he starts, the only way to stop the situation is to physically pull him off of her, and where he is normally incredibly gentle with me in this situation he is completely focused on attacking her and he will hurt me or Rembrandt to get to her. In the last few fights, Rembrandt has actually attacked him to try to get him to stop. In the fight that prompted this post today, I ended up with a bunch of bloody scratches on my hands and chest.
What I've been doing is making sure a door is closed between Stitch and Zatanna. One is in the bedroom/bathroom and one gets the run of the rest of the house. I have a feliway diffuser in the bedroom because it's a small enough room to be effective. On the days when I'm working from home (this is all non-travel days), I'll take one cat into the office with me and close the kitchen door, so that one cat has lots of space and the other cat gets to be with me. I'm trying to give everyone lots of attention. There are two cat trees out in the main space that all the cats have access to, so there is substantial vertical space. My apartment is the bottom floor of a duplex, so it's a large two bedroom and big enough for three cats.
Stitch is taking an anti-anxiety med, which I do think is helping him in some ways (he no longer pees on my couch!) but is perhaps not helping him play well with others. He needs to go for his annual appointment soon and I will be talking to the vet about this - he is seeing the same vet as before I adopted him, so they are very familiar with him but he hasn't previously lived with other cats.
Please help. I really do not want to rehome anyone, but I can't have things continue like this.
First, let me introduce the cats.
Zatanna is my sweet old lady cat. She is at least 13, a rescue with a rough early life, who likes to sleep, snuggle, sleep near my side, and not be bothered too much. She's a Maine coon and has that general disposition, and she weighs about eight pounds. I have had her for over 5 years.
Rembrandt, my big sweet baby. He is 7 years old but acts like a kitten. He loves to have his belly rubbed, to sleep next to my head, attention, and food. I've had him for three and a half years.
Stitch is the new guy. He is sweet and affectionate and wants to be carried around and sit in my lap and sleep on my feet. He also loves belly rubs. He is six and I got him in December, via a rather long story involving a friend in prison. He weighs about 12 pounds.
Rembrandt gets along with both the other cats. Both of the other cats get along with him. Stitch and Rembrandt play together and groom each other. Zatanna will happily eat with Rembrandt and she will tolerate him next to her, but she's elderly and not up for his kitten shenanigans. The problem is that if I let Stitch into the same space as Zatanna, he will attack her, and it's not play fighting. Once he starts, the only way to stop the situation is to physically pull him off of her, and where he is normally incredibly gentle with me in this situation he is completely focused on attacking her and he will hurt me or Rembrandt to get to her. In the last few fights, Rembrandt has actually attacked him to try to get him to stop. In the fight that prompted this post today, I ended up with a bunch of bloody scratches on my hands and chest.
What I've been doing is making sure a door is closed between Stitch and Zatanna. One is in the bedroom/bathroom and one gets the run of the rest of the house. I have a feliway diffuser in the bedroom because it's a small enough room to be effective. On the days when I'm working from home (this is all non-travel days), I'll take one cat into the office with me and close the kitchen door, so that one cat has lots of space and the other cat gets to be with me. I'm trying to give everyone lots of attention. There are two cat trees out in the main space that all the cats have access to, so there is substantial vertical space. My apartment is the bottom floor of a duplex, so it's a large two bedroom and big enough for three cats.
Stitch is taking an anti-anxiety med, which I do think is helping him in some ways (he no longer pees on my couch!) but is perhaps not helping him play well with others. He needs to go for his annual appointment soon and I will be talking to the vet about this - he is seeing the same vet as before I adopted him, so they are very familiar with him but he hasn't previously lived with other cats.
Please help. I really do not want to rehome anyone, but I can't have things continue like this.
If Stitch isn't catrated, perhaps that might help. Beyond that, from your brief description I think you need to rehome Stitch. Zatanna deserves to be safe at home.
We're a 4 cat household, and kinda similar. Older lady cat who was the first, and an only cat for a year. She's not a fighter/player with other cats. 4th cat does not like her, and will growl and swat at her anytime she needs to get by him (meal times / door ways). However he generally doesn't do more than growl or swat at her. And fortunately as he's less mobile than her the few times he chases her she can get away without issue.
It sounds like you have something well beyond different personalities, and think it's great that you're trying to provide a home for Stitch. But unless this is a very temporary thing (3-12 months) and you're willing to keep the cats physically separated for all that time, I think rehoming Stitch is your priority.
posted by nobeagle at 7:19 AM on June 27, 2017 [4 favorites]
We're a 4 cat household, and kinda similar. Older lady cat who was the first, and an only cat for a year. She's not a fighter/player with other cats. 4th cat does not like her, and will growl and swat at her anytime she needs to get by him (meal times / door ways). However he generally doesn't do more than growl or swat at her. And fortunately as he's less mobile than her the few times he chases her she can get away without issue.
It sounds like you have something well beyond different personalities, and think it's great that you're trying to provide a home for Stitch. But unless this is a very temporary thing (3-12 months) and you're willing to keep the cats physically separated for all that time, I think rehoming Stitch is your priority.
posted by nobeagle at 7:19 AM on June 27, 2017 [4 favorites]
Get the cats in the bathroom. Open two cans of tuna. Dump the oil from one can on each of the cats. Leave the bathroom. Check back in a half hour or so.
(Wet cat food is a sub-optimal substitute.)
posted by Etrigan at 7:27 AM on June 27, 2017 [1 favorite]
(Wet cat food is a sub-optimal substitute.)
posted by Etrigan at 7:27 AM on June 27, 2017 [1 favorite]
Feliway works pretty well too to help de-escalate any cat wars.
posted by answergrape at 7:53 AM on June 27, 2017
posted by answergrape at 7:53 AM on June 27, 2017
Seconding Feliway. The number of plug-ins depends on the size of your house or apartment. You probably want one plug-in for the main space and one for each bedroom.
It sounds like you have enough vertical space - make sure you have enough litterboxes and food dishes as well. Sometimes bully cats will guard litterboxes or try to ambush a subordinate cat in the box.
posted by Rosie M. Banks at 8:03 AM on June 27, 2017
It sounds like you have enough vertical space - make sure you have enough litterboxes and food dishes as well. Sometimes bully cats will guard litterboxes or try to ambush a subordinate cat in the box.
posted by Rosie M. Banks at 8:03 AM on June 27, 2017
Response by poster: All cats are fixed. There are four litterboxes.
posted by bile and syntax at 8:19 AM on June 27, 2017
posted by bile and syntax at 8:19 AM on June 27, 2017
Because this new male cat attacks your female cat but not your other male cat, I wonder whether this might be a case of sexual aggression (which, yes, can happen in some neutered males-- I once had a definitely neutered male cat who persisted in attacking and/or trying to mount a definitely spayed female cat at least once a week for several years after he was neutered).
I'd bring up this possibility with the vet and see whether the vet thinks it's a plausible explanation. The vet might be able to give you a pheromone spray to disguise your female cat's scent, or calming medications for the new male cat. There's also a slim possibility that Stitch's neutering was "incomplete" (sometimes they, er, miss a testicle) and the vet might be able to test for that.
posted by BlueJae at 8:52 AM on June 27, 2017 [3 favorites]
I'd bring up this possibility with the vet and see whether the vet thinks it's a plausible explanation. The vet might be able to give you a pheromone spray to disguise your female cat's scent, or calming medications for the new male cat. There's also a slim possibility that Stitch's neutering was "incomplete" (sometimes they, er, miss a testicle) and the vet might be able to test for that.
posted by BlueJae at 8:52 AM on June 27, 2017 [3 favorites]
I think you should protect 1 and 2. As nice as 3 is to you, I think we owe it to the kitties that came first to make them feel safe. Rehome Mr. Stitch.
posted by feste at 9:24 AM on June 27, 2017 [2 favorites]
posted by feste at 9:24 AM on June 27, 2017 [2 favorites]
In our 4 cat household, all of which were strays which wouldn't take "no" for an answer, the big black neutered male which, we think, has some bobcat lineage, tends to be aggressive if we don't keep up with Feilaway and prozac.
posted by path at 9:42 AM on June 27, 2017
posted by path at 9:42 AM on June 27, 2017
EDIT: rephrased for clarity
My cats and I went through a similar experience. We used Feliway and Tryptophan, but we found that the best results came from a really strict schedule of behaviour modification.
Just re-read my post, and it might seem like a lot of effort, but I promise it's easier than it sounds. You should notice improvements quite soon, which makes it easy to continue. In case you need any further encouragement, let me assure you that we managed to rehab our loving fat cat back from a sustained period of truly viscous and distressing spell of attacks on his brothers and us.
Try something like this:
- separate Stitch from the other two (we used the basement, a bedroom works). Make Stitch's room as plush and comfortable as possible - treats, toys, $5 fleece blankets, etc. Do the same for Z & R [EDIT: Z&R should share a space. I mostly refer to S and Z below as it seems like they ahve the most beef] . The idea is that there is as little stress as possible for each cat. Feliway helps. Tryptophan is good if they get agitated.
- after they're all settled, take a towel and rub it over Stitch. Take that towel and leave it somewhere Z will notice it. Do the same with a towel rubbed on Z and left in S's room. Repeat for 3/4 days.
- keep it up with the towels, but consider occasionally petting Z with the towel that was rubbed on S, and vice versa. After a couple of days, they should be pretty chill with the towel smells - look for signs of agitation in the beginning of the process, like puffy tails and noises.
- feed the cats simultaneously on either side of a closed door. Keep it up with the towels. 2/3 days.
- Now you can start re-introducing the cats to each others' spaces. Lock Z in the bathroom (for example) and let S stroll around your house for an hour or so. Do the same with Z in S's space. Repeat for a couple of days, building up time and frequency of the visits.
- Intro S and Z, with S in a cat box. Repeat a few times. Intro Z and S with S in a catbox. We did this for a couple of days.
- After this, you can start letting them hang out in your presence.
- If all is well, you should be good to leave them alone.
posted by MikePemulis at 10:03 AM on June 27, 2017 [5 favorites]
My cats and I went through a similar experience. We used Feliway and Tryptophan, but we found that the best results came from a really strict schedule of behaviour modification.
Just re-read my post, and it might seem like a lot of effort, but I promise it's easier than it sounds. You should notice improvements quite soon, which makes it easy to continue. In case you need any further encouragement, let me assure you that we managed to rehab our loving fat cat back from a sustained period of truly viscous and distressing spell of attacks on his brothers and us.
Try something like this:
- separate Stitch from the other two (we used the basement, a bedroom works). Make Stitch's room as plush and comfortable as possible - treats, toys, $5 fleece blankets, etc. Do the same for Z & R [EDIT: Z&R should share a space. I mostly refer to S and Z below as it seems like they ahve the most beef] . The idea is that there is as little stress as possible for each cat. Feliway helps. Tryptophan is good if they get agitated.
- after they're all settled, take a towel and rub it over Stitch. Take that towel and leave it somewhere Z will notice it. Do the same with a towel rubbed on Z and left in S's room. Repeat for 3/4 days.
- keep it up with the towels, but consider occasionally petting Z with the towel that was rubbed on S, and vice versa. After a couple of days, they should be pretty chill with the towel smells - look for signs of agitation in the beginning of the process, like puffy tails and noises.
- feed the cats simultaneously on either side of a closed door. Keep it up with the towels. 2/3 days.
- Now you can start re-introducing the cats to each others' spaces. Lock Z in the bathroom (for example) and let S stroll around your house for an hour or so. Do the same with Z in S's space. Repeat for a couple of days, building up time and frequency of the visits.
- Intro S and Z, with S in a cat box. Repeat a few times. Intro Z and S with S in a catbox. We did this for a couple of days.
- After this, you can start letting them hang out in your presence.
- If all is well, you should be good to leave them alone.
posted by MikePemulis at 10:03 AM on June 27, 2017 [5 favorites]
One other thing you could try that has really worked for me in addition to the Feliway, separation and keeping them busy is a Thundershirt type shirt for the aggressor cat. I don't know if you can always tell when Stitch is ready for a fight, but if you can and he's grabbable, I'd wrap him up in that. I've also heard people use toddler t shirts for the same effect.
The cat can still move fine. Mine does that low to the ground walk and goes to nap. I've used this enough that if I see he's about to start "hunting," I get the shirt out and he walks away to another room. It has greatly, greatly decreased his aggression. It's not 100 percent, but seriously, like 95% of what it was.
posted by not that mimi at 12:18 PM on June 27, 2017
The cat can still move fine. Mine does that low to the ground walk and goes to nap. I've used this enough that if I see he's about to start "hunting," I get the shirt out and he walks away to another room. It has greatly, greatly decreased his aggression. It's not 100 percent, but seriously, like 95% of what it was.
posted by not that mimi at 12:18 PM on June 27, 2017
We went through the same scenario with our 3 female cats. We tried everything - Feliway, rubbing the cloth on the other cat and putting it with the bully or victim cat, giving bully cat lots of attention etc.
Feliway was totally ineffective and nothing else worked so we kept the bully cat separated from the victim cat. We alternated who was locked in the master bedroom suite and the neutral cat went either way. This went on for many, many months and when we were home we often put the victim cat with us but she was afraid and ran back into our room but we left the door open then. Many months went by and victim cat would peek out of our room and eventually slowly inched her way down the hall and after about a year (yes, a year!) they learned to mostly co-exist. Interestingly, the victim cat died last year and bully cat will every so often go after the neutral cat so we have to put bully cat in our room for 30-60 min. with the door closed until the moment has passed.
posted by Flacka at 1:31 PM on June 27, 2017
Feliway was totally ineffective and nothing else worked so we kept the bully cat separated from the victim cat. We alternated who was locked in the master bedroom suite and the neutral cat went either way. This went on for many, many months and when we were home we often put the victim cat with us but she was afraid and ran back into our room but we left the door open then. Many months went by and victim cat would peek out of our room and eventually slowly inched her way down the hall and after about a year (yes, a year!) they learned to mostly co-exist. Interestingly, the victim cat died last year and bully cat will every so often go after the neutral cat so we have to put bully cat in our room for 30-60 min. with the door closed until the moment has passed.
posted by Flacka at 1:31 PM on June 27, 2017
I've found the Sentry Calming Collar to be more effective than Feliway. There's no chance of it being sucked away by drafts or being concerned it's not concentrated enough.
This might sound dumb, but Jackson Galaxy, the cat whisperer guy, actually has really excellent advice for cat issues, including feuding cats. I would check out episodes of his show. Early seasons are more helpful, since when his show took off his general advice was still good but he started hocking herbal scents and stuff and who knows what he's doing now.
But seriously, I could give you a whole list of things to try and caveats and alternatives based on one layout or another, but I think seeing how he handles different cats and environments and using them as case studies would be more informative. It's one of the few animal care shows where the host seems to actually know what they're doing.
posted by Anonymous at 11:10 PM on June 27, 2017
This might sound dumb, but Jackson Galaxy, the cat whisperer guy, actually has really excellent advice for cat issues, including feuding cats. I would check out episodes of his show. Early seasons are more helpful, since when his show took off his general advice was still good but he started hocking herbal scents and stuff and who knows what he's doing now.
But seriously, I could give you a whole list of things to try and caveats and alternatives based on one layout or another, but I think seeing how he handles different cats and environments and using them as case studies would be more informative. It's one of the few animal care shows where the host seems to actually know what they're doing.
posted by Anonymous at 11:10 PM on June 27, 2017
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In the end, the female did end up tolerating--barely--the newcomer. The babygates were able to come down, they stopped fighting, they came to an understanding.
Good luck. Fighting pets are stressful!
posted by soren_lorensen at 7:11 AM on June 27, 2017 [1 favorite]