i'm sorry
December 14, 2005 1:06 AM Subscribe
Having good relationships with insecure/overly apologetic types?
A friend of mine has a habit of being overly apologetic about trivial things. She seems to be insecure and often of the conviction that she is a burden on others. Our mutual friends agree that her behavior is overly deprecating and we collectively sigh when she comes with another needless apology.
I didn't take it too seriously until tonight, when she was in a pretty serious car wreck. Someone driving a full-sized pickup ran a stoplight, t-boned her small car, hit & run. She went to the hospital with a broken rib, in a lot of pain. We told her were on our way to the hospital, to which she told us not to, she'd just get a ride or whatever, along the lines that it wasn't worth our time. We went to see her regardless, drove her home, got her prescription filled, and basically took care of her the way sensible people do for one another.
But during the whole ordeal, she was apologetic to everyone (nurse, doctor, us, her friends on the phone, etc). It's almost heartbreaking for me to think someone thinks so little of themselves in a situation like this. Although her needless apologies bothered me slightly in the past, it now seems this something that would really get in the way of a healthy relationship. It just feels weird.
My questions:
Why do some people have these feelings of inadequacy? What are the common parental/social/formative influences (or lack thereof) at play here?
It seems she's had unhealthy relationships in the past (taken advantage of emotionally) - is there a specific pschiatric term for this type of behavior and the resulting patterns of relationships she'd be inclined to seek out?
How can I kindly suggest to her that her apologetic ways make me (and others) feel weird? Is it something that should be addressed directly, subtly hinted at, or have a sit-down talk? I don't want it to come accross as criticism as I think that'd add to her insecurity.
Thanks for your thoughts.
A friend of mine has a habit of being overly apologetic about trivial things. She seems to be insecure and often of the conviction that she is a burden on others. Our mutual friends agree that her behavior is overly deprecating and we collectively sigh when she comes with another needless apology.
I didn't take it too seriously until tonight, when she was in a pretty serious car wreck. Someone driving a full-sized pickup ran a stoplight, t-boned her small car, hit & run. She went to the hospital with a broken rib, in a lot of pain. We told her were on our way to the hospital, to which she told us not to, she'd just get a ride or whatever, along the lines that it wasn't worth our time. We went to see her regardless, drove her home, got her prescription filled, and basically took care of her the way sensible people do for one another.
But during the whole ordeal, she was apologetic to everyone (nurse, doctor, us, her friends on the phone, etc). It's almost heartbreaking for me to think someone thinks so little of themselves in a situation like this. Although her needless apologies bothered me slightly in the past, it now seems this something that would really get in the way of a healthy relationship. It just feels weird.
My questions:
Why do some people have these feelings of inadequacy? What are the common parental/social/formative influences (or lack thereof) at play here?
It seems she's had unhealthy relationships in the past (taken advantage of emotionally) - is there a specific pschiatric term for this type of behavior and the resulting patterns of relationships she'd be inclined to seek out?
How can I kindly suggest to her that her apologetic ways make me (and others) feel weird? Is it something that should be addressed directly, subtly hinted at, or have a sit-down talk? I don't want it to come accross as criticism as I think that'd add to her insecurity.
Thanks for your thoughts.
Please just do Pigpen's last sentence.
This person is probably quite traumatized from something in their past and is likely trying very hard to live a normal life despite personal obstacles. Trust and confidence are built through time and constant reinforcement. Lots of hugs and positivity will make this person's day.
posted by By The Grace of God at 2:14 AM on December 14, 2005
This person is probably quite traumatized from something in their past and is likely trying very hard to live a normal life despite personal obstacles. Trust and confidence are built through time and constant reinforcement. Lots of hugs and positivity will make this person's day.
posted by By The Grace of God at 2:14 AM on December 14, 2005
You might be able to guilt her into stopping the apologising, actually, if you can convey that the constant apologising implies she has a low opinion of your qualities as a friend.
In my experience this sort of behavior will only exacerbate the problem. You can't make it go away by playing along. Just treat your friend like a normal person and when the apologetics get too much, gently remind her that everything is not, in fact, her fault.
posted by kjh at 2:25 AM on December 14, 2005
In my experience this sort of behavior will only exacerbate the problem. You can't make it go away by playing along. Just treat your friend like a normal person and when the apologetics get too much, gently remind her that everything is not, in fact, her fault.
posted by kjh at 2:25 AM on December 14, 2005
Response by poster: "...the constant apologising implies she has a low opinion of your qualities as a friend. Which is true, is it not?"
Not so much...rather, I think it implies she has a low opinion of herself as a person. The apologies act as a means for her to put herself down to her perceived level and perhaps gain approval (e.g. "no, you don't need to be sorry", "it's not your fault", etc).
But these reassurances, much like the apologies, have become banal.
posted by masymas at 2:52 AM on December 14, 2005
Not so much...rather, I think it implies she has a low opinion of herself as a person. The apologies act as a means for her to put herself down to her perceived level and perhaps gain approval (e.g. "no, you don't need to be sorry", "it's not your fault", etc).
But these reassurances, much like the apologies, have become banal.
posted by masymas at 2:52 AM on December 14, 2005
I was a bit this way as a teenager (although not to the point where I would have apologised to a doctor for being in a position where they were required to give me care!).
It's partly insecurities, and after a while it's also partly habit. "Sorry" just ends up being one of those words that comes out of your mouth so frequently that when you don't have anything to say, it just pops out... which starts to make the word quite meaningless.
This realisation, coupled with increased self confidence, is what made me "cut down" on the apologies...
My two cents is: let her know how much she means to you, and yes, do tell her how you feel when she apologises all the time (frustrated, sad, awkward, like she doesn't think you value her friendship, like she doesn't value herself, etc). I think you can easily do this without criticising her, make sure the vibe is that you're a concerned and loving friend, rather than someone slapping her across the wrist...
posted by ancamp at 3:41 AM on December 14, 2005
It's partly insecurities, and after a while it's also partly habit. "Sorry" just ends up being one of those words that comes out of your mouth so frequently that when you don't have anything to say, it just pops out... which starts to make the word quite meaningless.
This realisation, coupled with increased self confidence, is what made me "cut down" on the apologies...
My two cents is: let her know how much she means to you, and yes, do tell her how you feel when she apologises all the time (frustrated, sad, awkward, like she doesn't think you value her friendship, like she doesn't value herself, etc). I think you can easily do this without criticising her, make sure the vibe is that you're a concerned and loving friend, rather than someone slapping her across the wrist...
posted by ancamp at 3:41 AM on December 14, 2005
I'm one of those eternal apologists. And yes, it does come from some kind of deep-rooted insecurity, but I also use it as some kind of spooling - in the absence of any other words being spoken, it kinda breaks the silence.
Also, I just feel incredibly uneasy whenever anyone does anything for me. I'm used to doing things for myself, my own way to a large extent, to retain my "power" - and when someone does something for me, it knocks me from my nice comfy spot, and it's one way to react. Not the best way, admittedly.
The way I see it - if she means no harm by her constant apologising, then either let it go or, if she has a sense of humour about herself, gently joke with her and mock her about it. That's what my friends do with me. Although I wouldn't do it right now, obviously.
posted by badlydubbedboy at 3:50 AM on December 14, 2005 [1 favorite]
Also, I just feel incredibly uneasy whenever anyone does anything for me. I'm used to doing things for myself, my own way to a large extent, to retain my "power" - and when someone does something for me, it knocks me from my nice comfy spot, and it's one way to react. Not the best way, admittedly.
The way I see it - if she means no harm by her constant apologising, then either let it go or, if she has a sense of humour about herself, gently joke with her and mock her about it. That's what my friends do with me. Although I wouldn't do it right now, obviously.
posted by badlydubbedboy at 3:50 AM on December 14, 2005 [1 favorite]
Sitting her down for a "serious talk" (as it seems you would like to do) is just going to make her apologize more for your effort.
So when she apologizes for everything, just laugh it off, gently, and use it as an opportunity to make her feel good about her abilities as a friend. example: "Oh, stop apologizing for everything! [laugh] It's really no big deal. You'd do the same for me, right?"
posted by elisabeth r at 4:29 AM on December 14, 2005
So when she apologizes for everything, just laugh it off, gently, and use it as an opportunity to make her feel good about her abilities as a friend. example: "Oh, stop apologizing for everything! [laugh] It's really no big deal. You'd do the same for me, right?"
posted by elisabeth r at 4:29 AM on December 14, 2005
Another vote for joking about it. With a big grin, a laugh and a hug (once her ribs don't hurt!): "Man, for such a lovely person, you certainly apologise a lot, instead of a swear box, I'm gonna have to set up a sorry box...!"
She probably knows she's doing it, but with habits like this it's sometimes a verbal tic or reflex you don't even notice you're doing half the time, and achieving mindfulness of it is the first step to stopping.
Don't actually set up the sorry box of course, but if you think it wouldn't leave her a gibbering wreck, follow up with a few "Ah! Penny in the box!" comments when she apologises for a few times after that, but only when she's in good humour. Don't persist indefinitely with it but a few times might be enough to make the point without making her feel like a freak. If she hasn't got it by then, let it lie and love her.
posted by penguin pie at 6:28 AM on December 14, 2005 [1 favorite]
She probably knows she's doing it, but with habits like this it's sometimes a verbal tic or reflex you don't even notice you're doing half the time, and achieving mindfulness of it is the first step to stopping.
Don't actually set up the sorry box of course, but if you think it wouldn't leave her a gibbering wreck, follow up with a few "Ah! Penny in the box!" comments when she apologises for a few times after that, but only when she's in good humour. Don't persist indefinitely with it but a few times might be enough to make the point without making her feel like a freak. If she hasn't got it by then, let it lie and love her.
posted by penguin pie at 6:28 AM on December 14, 2005 [1 favorite]
I get the feeling that there are two types who exhibit this behavior. One, as suggested above, has low self esteem. Another variation is a general timorousness, with an associated conversational tic, as badlydubbedboy describes.
In the second case I don't get the same kind of impression of pathology. Its just part of their style.
posted by StickyCarpet at 7:10 AM on December 14, 2005
In the second case I don't get the same kind of impression of pathology. Its just part of their style.
posted by StickyCarpet at 7:10 AM on December 14, 2005
Stuff like that is due to an overly critical, obsessive parent, in my experience. (My mother was bizarrely picky and made a big deal about how I did some of the most minor things--little things that I'm now learning most people would just shrug off.)
A friend trained me out of constant apologizing by simply saying "Don't apologize" firmly but with a clear smile in her voice (if you will) and on her face. I think she also asked me, at one point "Are you actually sorry?" after I apologized for something minor, and then helped me realize that it wasn't a big deal and didn't really necessitate feeling apologetic or throwing off an "I'm sorry." I wasn't quite where your friend is, though.
I would not stress the "your apologies make me feel weird" angle, because I doubt that's your major concern here, and it could actually make her feel guilty ("Oh, I'm sorry for apologizing so much!") and won't help her chill out.
posted by needs more cowbell at 7:19 AM on December 14, 2005 [1 favorite]
A friend trained me out of constant apologizing by simply saying "Don't apologize" firmly but with a clear smile in her voice (if you will) and on her face. I think she also asked me, at one point "Are you actually sorry?" after I apologized for something minor, and then helped me realize that it wasn't a big deal and didn't really necessitate feeling apologetic or throwing off an "I'm sorry." I wasn't quite where your friend is, though.
I would not stress the "your apologies make me feel weird" angle, because I doubt that's your major concern here, and it could actually make her feel guilty ("Oh, I'm sorry for apologizing so much!") and won't help her chill out.
posted by needs more cowbell at 7:19 AM on December 14, 2005 [1 favorite]
I have a slightly different view of this -- if you're really her good friend, then you should try to have a good talk with her about her insecurity. The focus should be not on how you feel when she apologizes, but rather why she feels like she has to apologize, why she thinks she doesn't deserve your friendship. After all, it's not the words that are getting in the way of friendship, it's her insecurity. On a superficial level the constant apologies might be a social faux pas, but the point's not to engineer her behavior into a more socially accepted form, is it? This isn't about habits, but about getting to know her better.
It seems like the accident is a perfect trigger for this discussion -- "you know, you seemed to feel like you couldn't accept our help -- why is that? we love you and that's just what friends do for each other." etc. Done not in an accusatory/trying to fix her way, but rather as a heart-to-heart between friends.
posted by footnote at 7:21 AM on December 14, 2005
It seems like the accident is a perfect trigger for this discussion -- "you know, you seemed to feel like you couldn't accept our help -- why is that? we love you and that's just what friends do for each other." etc. Done not in an accusatory/trying to fix her way, but rather as a heart-to-heart between friends.
posted by footnote at 7:21 AM on December 14, 2005
I once had a boyfriend who complained I apologized too much. I put it down to growing up in England, where everyone is so damn apologetic all the time.
posted by CunningLinguist at 8:04 AM on December 14, 2005
posted by CunningLinguist at 8:04 AM on December 14, 2005
well, we're sorry about that English trait. Dashed annoying.
posted by badlydubbedboy at 9:26 AM on December 14, 2005
posted by badlydubbedboy at 9:26 AM on December 14, 2005
Second the overly critical parenting. Lack of social skills leading to limited peer interaction. Growing up feeling like people didn't like you will also help, depending on how deeply-rooted the insecurity is she may even be feeling like she has to apologize for her presence.
When you're insecure, especially that insecure, you just want to be in a corner and not cause any trouble. So the idea of people not only spending time with you, but going out of their way to spend time with or help you is a terrifying and awful prospect. "I'm not good enough for this! Go home, please! No, it's OK, you have better things to do than take care of me! I know I'm just trouble, so please don't worry about anything!"
And man, when they insist that can make you feel even worse because it proves just what wonderful, nice people they are and so they really, really shouldn't have to deal with the awful, annoying person that is you.
This kind of insecurity will take years to uproot. I'm still working on it. Friends can be a lot of help--realizing that people want to spend time with you and like you goes a long way to helping you like yourself.
So, um, probably the best thing to do is to keep spending time with her. Keep acting like a friend, y'know, inviting her to the movies, offering to pick her up if you find out she needs a ride, stuff like that. And when she apologizes, remind her it's no problem, apologies aren't necessary, and you're doing it because you want to because you're her friend.
And if there is a point when she apologizes and the moment is right to bring up the topic, ask her why she apologizes. Explain that you're her friend, you value her presence and whatever, and you're afraid she's too insecure about herself and you really want to see her happy and whatever. And do mention the constant apologies are weird, because I gotta say I never thought of it that way and knowing that would help me catch myself when I'm apologizing.
posted by Anonymous at 11:51 AM on December 14, 2005
When you're insecure, especially that insecure, you just want to be in a corner and not cause any trouble. So the idea of people not only spending time with you, but going out of their way to spend time with or help you is a terrifying and awful prospect. "I'm not good enough for this! Go home, please! No, it's OK, you have better things to do than take care of me! I know I'm just trouble, so please don't worry about anything!"
And man, when they insist that can make you feel even worse because it proves just what wonderful, nice people they are and so they really, really shouldn't have to deal with the awful, annoying person that is you.
This kind of insecurity will take years to uproot. I'm still working on it. Friends can be a lot of help--realizing that people want to spend time with you and like you goes a long way to helping you like yourself.
So, um, probably the best thing to do is to keep spending time with her. Keep acting like a friend, y'know, inviting her to the movies, offering to pick her up if you find out she needs a ride, stuff like that. And when she apologizes, remind her it's no problem, apologies aren't necessary, and you're doing it because you want to because you're her friend.
And if there is a point when she apologizes and the moment is right to bring up the topic, ask her why she apologizes. Explain that you're her friend, you value her presence and whatever, and you're afraid she's too insecure about herself and you really want to see her happy and whatever. And do mention the constant apologies are weird, because I gotta say I never thought of it that way and knowing that would help me catch myself when I'm apologizing.
posted by Anonymous at 11:51 AM on December 14, 2005
Why do some people have these feelings of inadequacy? What are the common parental/social/formative influences (or lack thereof) at play here?
My self-esteem is non-existent. Family influences (I'd rather not be too specific) made sure I knew I wasn't worth much. As an adult I've been told this is untrue, but it's very hard to break out of this mind-set.
posted by deborah at 12:30 PM on December 14, 2005
My self-esteem is non-existent. Family influences (I'd rather not be too specific) made sure I knew I wasn't worth much. As an adult I've been told this is untrue, but it's very hard to break out of this mind-set.
posted by deborah at 12:30 PM on December 14, 2005
I'm giving the following advice with a word of caution and only because it worked for me.
I have spent years as a low-self-esteem apologizer and one thing that has really helped me out is a little tough-love. Most of my friends now know to reply to my pointless apologies with "Oh yes, it is all your fault" while smiling/laughing/being positive and it almost always seems to "reset" me.
Be cautious with this one, if it is clearly not going to help then cut it out, just saying what works for me.
posted by Cosine at 12:36 PM on December 14, 2005
I have spent years as a low-self-esteem apologizer and one thing that has really helped me out is a little tough-love. Most of my friends now know to reply to my pointless apologies with "Oh yes, it is all your fault" while smiling/laughing/being positive and it almost always seems to "reset" me.
Be cautious with this one, if it is clearly not going to help then cut it out, just saying what works for me.
posted by Cosine at 12:36 PM on December 14, 2005
This thread is closed to new comments.
posted by Pigpen at 1:32 AM on December 14, 2005