How can one decrease Hydrogen Peroxide levels in the body?
December 8, 2015 8:15 AM Subscribe
I've read that as we age Hydrogen Peroxide levels in our bodies increase due to our body having a harder time keeping the levels low. It's also said to be the main cause of hair turning grey...
according to recent studies in Europe, as Hydrogen peroxide levels incresase in the hair follicles due to age it has a bleaching affect which turns hair grey and eventually white. I'm more interested in decreasing the levels in general and not just in my hair shaft as it seems to be healthier overall and was wondering if anyone knew how to do this or if it's possible.
according to recent studies in Europe, as Hydrogen peroxide levels incresase in the hair follicles due to age it has a bleaching affect which turns hair grey and eventually white. I'm more interested in decreasing the levels in general and not just in my hair shaft as it seems to be healthier overall and was wondering if anyone knew how to do this or if it's possible.
Response by poster: again I'm not looking for pills to prevent grays as I'm more interested in decreasing levels in the body. I only mentioned the grays as an example of one of the side effects. In truth hydrogen peroxide increases in all our cells as we age. I'd like to know for instance, Do antioxidants in foods keep HP levels down? If so what elements? Not sure if we know yet.
posted by rancher at 8:35 AM on December 8, 2015
posted by rancher at 8:35 AM on December 8, 2015
Despite your question being specific, the background you give is suspiciously vague and seems like popular-science understanding of more complex research. I'd suggest that this isn't something you should be worried about.
posted by beerbajay at 8:46 AM on December 8, 2015 [34 favorites]
posted by beerbajay at 8:46 AM on December 8, 2015 [34 favorites]
I don't think this is possible in any meaningful way, as peroxide is produced as a byproduct of regular, every-day metabolism, and will happen as long as you're alive and metabolizing things.
posted by Spathe Cadet at 8:49 AM on December 8, 2015 [7 favorites]
posted by Spathe Cadet at 8:49 AM on December 8, 2015 [7 favorites]
As HP decomposes in the body it gives off free radicals, which can be counterattacked with anti-oxidants. So perhaps try looking into foods and supplements which contain high levels of AO, and also clean up your diet to avoid things like bad fats and sugars and the like. Lots of research online should you care to look into it. Clean eating and eating AO-rich foods would most likely help with all aspects of aging, not just hair.
IANAD.
posted by the webmistress at 9:13 AM on December 8, 2015 [1 favorite]
IANAD.
posted by the webmistress at 9:13 AM on December 8, 2015 [1 favorite]
Related to the above comment, look into chlorophyll supplements.
posted by Iris Gambol at 9:16 AM on December 8, 2015 [2 favorites]
posted by Iris Gambol at 9:16 AM on December 8, 2015 [2 favorites]
I would not take supplements; latest metastudies suggest that anti-oxidant supplements can actually exacerbate cancer risks.
HP is part of your body's natural metabolic processes. There's absolutely no reason to attempt to reduce the overall amount of it in your body, or to target it, or consider the levels of this chemical as a specific indicator of something going wrong.
The hair-related study is interesting, but, after all, there's nothing *wrong* or unhealthy about having grey hair, so it's not a marker of 'bad stuff' going on.
posted by AFII at 9:18 AM on December 8, 2015 [7 favorites]
HP is part of your body's natural metabolic processes. There's absolutely no reason to attempt to reduce the overall amount of it in your body, or to target it, or consider the levels of this chemical as a specific indicator of something going wrong.
The hair-related study is interesting, but, after all, there's nothing *wrong* or unhealthy about having grey hair, so it's not a marker of 'bad stuff' going on.
posted by AFII at 9:18 AM on December 8, 2015 [7 favorites]
Could you maybe provide a link to the recent study? I'm very suspicious... hair doesn't turn white because it gets *bleached*, it turns white because the pigment-producing cells die as we age. I suppose hydrogen peroxide could be one of the things killing off the pigment cells, but actual bleaching of hair doesn't come into it at all.
As for your specific question, there is a logical argument that antioxidants (either dietary or supplements) will counteract the effects of oxidizing agents like H2O2, although the actual effects in real humans are more complicated. Antioxidant supplements do seem to have some demonstrated effect on age-related eye disease (macular degeneration) for instance, but they seem to actually increase the risk of certain types of cancer.
posted by mskyle at 9:18 AM on December 8, 2015 [8 favorites]
As for your specific question, there is a logical argument that antioxidants (either dietary or supplements) will counteract the effects of oxidizing agents like H2O2, although the actual effects in real humans are more complicated. Antioxidant supplements do seem to have some demonstrated effect on age-related eye disease (macular degeneration) for instance, but they seem to actually increase the risk of certain types of cancer.
posted by mskyle at 9:18 AM on December 8, 2015 [8 favorites]
Response by poster: I didn't really look into the gray hair study because again- I'm not really interested in the hair- but I got this from the Huffington Post published on 3/2014
"In 2009, European researchers finally discovered the true mechanism responsible for graying. Our hair cells naturally produce hydrogen peroxide. But when the cells produce too much, rather than turning us blonde as it would out of a bottle, it turns us gray.
Scientists say everyone's hair cells produce some hydrogen peroxide, regardless of age. But as we get older, our cells aren't able to break down the chemical as well.
"The whole mechanism is upset by too much hydrogen peroxide," researcher Gerald Weissman told Newsweek. Hydrogen peroxide is "a very concentrated form of oxygen. We need oxygen and sunlight to live, but they also bleach us. Maybe the best analogy is that we're like a color photograph fading to black and white," Weissman said" and here's a link I found http://www.uni-mainz.de/eng/13060.php "Hydrogen peroxide attacks the enzyme tyrosinase by oxidizing an amino acid, methionine, at the active site. As a consequence, this key enzyme, which normally starts the synthesizing pathway of the coloring pigment melanin, does not function anymore."
posted by rancher at 9:29 AM on December 8, 2015
"In 2009, European researchers finally discovered the true mechanism responsible for graying. Our hair cells naturally produce hydrogen peroxide. But when the cells produce too much, rather than turning us blonde as it would out of a bottle, it turns us gray.
Scientists say everyone's hair cells produce some hydrogen peroxide, regardless of age. But as we get older, our cells aren't able to break down the chemical as well.
"The whole mechanism is upset by too much hydrogen peroxide," researcher Gerald Weissman told Newsweek. Hydrogen peroxide is "a very concentrated form of oxygen. We need oxygen and sunlight to live, but they also bleach us. Maybe the best analogy is that we're like a color photograph fading to black and white," Weissman said" and here's a link I found http://www.uni-mainz.de/eng/13060.php "Hydrogen peroxide attacks the enzyme tyrosinase by oxidizing an amino acid, methionine, at the active site. As a consequence, this key enzyme, which normally starts the synthesizing pathway of the coloring pigment melanin, does not function anymore."
posted by rancher at 9:29 AM on December 8, 2015
If there were a pill that really kept your hair from turning grey, and it was safe to use, you'd already know about it. It'd be featured on every other TV commercial you see, like Viagra/Cialis ads. You wouldn't be able to escape them.
Think about how many Rogaine ads you've seen. And that's just for a subset of humanity that's losing their hair. Grey hair affects everyone. So, double the number of Rogaine ads, at least.
posted by Cool Papa Bell at 9:33 AM on December 8, 2015 [1 favorite]
Think about how many Rogaine ads you've seen. And that's just for a subset of humanity that's losing their hair. Grey hair affects everyone. So, double the number of Rogaine ads, at least.
posted by Cool Papa Bell at 9:33 AM on December 8, 2015 [1 favorite]
Taking "let's reduce the levels of H2O2 in the body" from that study represents an extreme and inaccurate over-simplification of the biochemical processes that lead to its accumulation. This is really nothing to worry about. There is no specific thing you can do to prevent this. If you are concerned about aging the advice is the same it has always been: stay physically active, stay intellectually active, form strong social networks, get plenty of sleep, reduce stress, and eat healthfully.
posted by Anonymous at 9:36 AM on December 8, 2015
posted by Anonymous at 9:36 AM on December 8, 2015
Always click through to the sources. The Newsweek article in that Huffington one actually says "Unlike the bottled stuff that creates bleach blondes, the hydrogen peroxide produced in your scalp bleaches your hair gray." Also: "As to reversing the graying process, Weissmann says he expects researchers to focus on all three of the involved enzymes [not just H2O2], as well as the role of antioxidants and free radicals." They conclude by saying there's no known way to help yet.
They do talk about the other things schroedinger mentions. Live well and healthily.
posted by fraula at 9:40 AM on December 8, 2015 [1 favorite]
They do talk about the other things schroedinger mentions. Live well and healthily.
posted by fraula at 9:40 AM on December 8, 2015 [1 favorite]
i must admit i thought this sounded like "woo" when i read the question. but after poking around it does seem to be a reasonable description of what the original paper claimed. however, history has not been so kind to the hypothesis - this paper is the only recent reference i can find to the work, and it lists it as one amongst many competing explanations for prematurely greying hair.
so it seems that further work did not confirm that this is the "one true" explanation of grey hair.
posted by andrewcooke at 10:03 AM on December 8, 2015 [1 favorite]
so it seems that further work did not confirm that this is the "one true" explanation of grey hair.
posted by andrewcooke at 10:03 AM on December 8, 2015 [1 favorite]
Can you measure it? If you can't measure it, then any product which claims to reduce it is a fake.
Ask you doctor to measure your peroxide levels, then look at medical data to see what the good/bad/expected levels are, and then finally look for products which have a reasonable claim to improve the levels. Finally, after some period of use, get your doctor to measure your peroxide levels again.
If you can't do the above, then it's not science.
posted by jpeacock at 10:10 AM on December 8, 2015 [1 favorite]
Ask you doctor to measure your peroxide levels, then look at medical data to see what the good/bad/expected levels are, and then finally look for products which have a reasonable claim to improve the levels. Finally, after some period of use, get your doctor to measure your peroxide levels again.
If you can't do the above, then it's not science.
posted by jpeacock at 10:10 AM on December 8, 2015 [1 favorite]
Hydrogen peroxide is a very important part of your metabolism and especially your immune system. For example, chronic granulomatous disease arises when the body is unable to generate an adequate amount of hydrogen peroxide and related compounds (e.g. superoxide) and causes a pretty broad range of nasty symptoms. Whether its sufferers also have hair that is less likely to grey is, as far as I know, not a question that has ever been studied.
In any case, CGD is a good example to illustrate the concept that you cannot simply reduce hydrogen peroxide levels across the board in hopes of achieving an anti-aging or other health benefit.
posted by telegraph at 10:21 AM on December 8, 2015 [13 favorites]
In any case, CGD is a good example to illustrate the concept that you cannot simply reduce hydrogen peroxide levels across the board in hopes of achieving an anti-aging or other health benefit.
posted by telegraph at 10:21 AM on December 8, 2015 [13 favorites]
I find this question interesting, but I will suggest that if there is a good answer, it will be found by exploring the mechanisms in the body that result in higher peroxide levels.
So you would need to study the mechanism for how and why the body produces peroxide. Then you would need to determine the exact cause of increased production in elderly people. Keep in mind, people start going gray at different ages and to different degrees. It is entirely possible that there are multiple different triggering mechanisms that lead to higher production.
So you would need to establish a pathology. Only after establishing that can you determine a good answer. Because if the reason the body has increased production of peroxide is rooted in protecting itself from something worse, then you would be harming your health if you disrupted production. But it would be okay to find a means to reduce the threat the body was responding to in order to discourage it from increasing production.
This is complicated by the fact that establishing a general pathology doesn't necessarily say anything about your specific pathology. If there are multiple different factors contributing to this process, after determining what all those factors are AND some means to redress each one individually, you would then need to determine which ones specifically applied in your case. Then and only then could you determine an effective means to reduce peroxide production or avert increased production without shooting yourself in the foot in the process.
posted by Michele in California at 11:08 AM on December 8, 2015
So you would need to study the mechanism for how and why the body produces peroxide. Then you would need to determine the exact cause of increased production in elderly people. Keep in mind, people start going gray at different ages and to different degrees. It is entirely possible that there are multiple different triggering mechanisms that lead to higher production.
So you would need to establish a pathology. Only after establishing that can you determine a good answer. Because if the reason the body has increased production of peroxide is rooted in protecting itself from something worse, then you would be harming your health if you disrupted production. But it would be okay to find a means to reduce the threat the body was responding to in order to discourage it from increasing production.
This is complicated by the fact that establishing a general pathology doesn't necessarily say anything about your specific pathology. If there are multiple different factors contributing to this process, after determining what all those factors are AND some means to redress each one individually, you would then need to determine which ones specifically applied in your case. Then and only then could you determine an effective means to reduce peroxide production or avert increased production without shooting yourself in the foot in the process.
posted by Michele in California at 11:08 AM on December 8, 2015
To add on to schroedinger's excellent response, I want to be even clearer to say that even if hydrogen peroxide levels in the body do increase over time and are involved in the aging process, it remains very unclear what effect decreasing those levels would have and whether it would be good or not.
As an example, consider a few recent cases that I think are somewhat similar in primary care medicine.
- The case of postmenopausal estrogen therapy. This used to be much more widely recommended for women suffering from menopause symptoms, and it was thought that the estrogen also could protect against heart disease. The reasoning behind this was that pre-menopausal women do have decreased risk of heart disease compared to men, and some studies, including a large nurses' health study, had shown beneficial effects for your heart if you took hormonal therapy. Then the Women's Health Initiative, a gold standard, randomized placebo controlled trial showed that hormone replacement therapy's risks, including an increased risk of heart attacks, exceeded its benefits. Therefore no one's using hormone replacement therapy anymore, right? Nope. This article from the NYT delves into some of the thorny issues involved in studying a problem like this.
- The case of calcium supplements. It used to be widely believed that it was a good idea to take calcium supplements when you were older, due to concerns about osteoporosis. The same study that upended prevailing assumptions about HRT, the Women's Health Initiative, showed no benefit to taking calcium supplements. In fact, women who take calcium supplements appear to actually have higher risk of heart attacks, and also of kidney stones.
Both of these issues have been studied heavily, far far more so than hydrogen peroxide levels have, which is further to say that there is really zero conclusion you can draw on what hydrogen peroxide levels in your body actually mean and whether having more or less of it is good or bad. Having high hydrogen peroxide levels in your body could make your hair cells produce less hydrogen peroxide for all we know. The study concludes that hair cells produce more hydrogen peroxide because of a lack of the enzyme catalase, which to me suggests that hydrogen peroxide levels in your body have nothing to do with the levels in your hair (it's the presence or lack of the enzyme to break it down that matters).
I know you said that the hair issue isn't really what's troubling you, but the point is that stuff in your body is doing a lot of complex things, and it can be really hard to say whether a substance in your body is "good" or "bad." For example, hydrogen peroxide is used by your body to fight infections. It's also a messenger that helps to control gene expression. Maybe not something we should be messing with unless we really understand what messing with it is going to do.
How about the recent evidence showing that low cholesterol diets don't translate to you having a low cholesterol? Further proof that trying to increase or reduce levels of something in your body for a health outcome is not as straightforward as "eat more or less of X" or "eat more of something else that ought to reduce X."
I'm thoroughly on board with the recommendation that in general if you want to be healthier, exercise and trying to get more plants into your diet are some of the best places to start (and quitting smoking and sugar if those are habits of yours).... these are some of the general health recommendations that have the strongest evidence backing them for the human race as a whole.
posted by treehorn+bunny at 9:22 PM on December 8, 2015 [7 favorites]
As an example, consider a few recent cases that I think are somewhat similar in primary care medicine.
- The case of postmenopausal estrogen therapy. This used to be much more widely recommended for women suffering from menopause symptoms, and it was thought that the estrogen also could protect against heart disease. The reasoning behind this was that pre-menopausal women do have decreased risk of heart disease compared to men, and some studies, including a large nurses' health study, had shown beneficial effects for your heart if you took hormonal therapy. Then the Women's Health Initiative, a gold standard, randomized placebo controlled trial showed that hormone replacement therapy's risks, including an increased risk of heart attacks, exceeded its benefits. Therefore no one's using hormone replacement therapy anymore, right? Nope. This article from the NYT delves into some of the thorny issues involved in studying a problem like this.
- The case of calcium supplements. It used to be widely believed that it was a good idea to take calcium supplements when you were older, due to concerns about osteoporosis. The same study that upended prevailing assumptions about HRT, the Women's Health Initiative, showed no benefit to taking calcium supplements. In fact, women who take calcium supplements appear to actually have higher risk of heart attacks, and also of kidney stones.
Both of these issues have been studied heavily, far far more so than hydrogen peroxide levels have, which is further to say that there is really zero conclusion you can draw on what hydrogen peroxide levels in your body actually mean and whether having more or less of it is good or bad. Having high hydrogen peroxide levels in your body could make your hair cells produce less hydrogen peroxide for all we know. The study concludes that hair cells produce more hydrogen peroxide because of a lack of the enzyme catalase, which to me suggests that hydrogen peroxide levels in your body have nothing to do with the levels in your hair (it's the presence or lack of the enzyme to break it down that matters).
I know you said that the hair issue isn't really what's troubling you, but the point is that stuff in your body is doing a lot of complex things, and it can be really hard to say whether a substance in your body is "good" or "bad." For example, hydrogen peroxide is used by your body to fight infections. It's also a messenger that helps to control gene expression. Maybe not something we should be messing with unless we really understand what messing with it is going to do.
How about the recent evidence showing that low cholesterol diets don't translate to you having a low cholesterol? Further proof that trying to increase or reduce levels of something in your body for a health outcome is not as straightforward as "eat more or less of X" or "eat more of something else that ought to reduce X."
I'm thoroughly on board with the recommendation that in general if you want to be healthier, exercise and trying to get more plants into your diet are some of the best places to start (and quitting smoking and sugar if those are habits of yours).... these are some of the general health recommendations that have the strongest evidence backing them for the human race as a whole.
posted by treehorn+bunny at 9:22 PM on December 8, 2015 [7 favorites]
(Primary care doctors of Askme, feel free to correct me if I've misworded anything above - I think I've gotten the general point across, but I'm not a primary care doctor and as such am not as familiar with your literature).
posted by treehorn+bunny at 9:23 PM on December 8, 2015
posted by treehorn+bunny at 9:23 PM on December 8, 2015
disclaimer: posting well outside my area of expertise
Another vote for (1) there doesn't seem to be enough information out there to really know how to do it and (2) not necessarily a good idea anyway.
On (2) my understanding is that a lot of the current sentiment among researchers is that oxidative species are actually good in certain contexts, since they trigger beneficial pathways to repair the damage the damage they cause and have net positive effect (again, maybe, in certain contexts). Hydrogen peroxide specifically seems to be a species that can both cause damage *and* a specific signalling mechanism critical to preventing damage. See this short article or click through to the review paper for a bit on that as well as the "we have a lot learn before we give a recommendation" side of the equation.
OTOH if you think of H2O2 as an oxidative species, and decide to eat lots of fresh vegetables to try and keep those levels down (which is probably the best you can do), it's not like that's a *bad* thing.
posted by mark k at 9:32 PM on December 8, 2015
Another vote for (1) there doesn't seem to be enough information out there to really know how to do it and (2) not necessarily a good idea anyway.
On (2) my understanding is that a lot of the current sentiment among researchers is that oxidative species are actually good in certain contexts, since they trigger beneficial pathways to repair the damage the damage they cause and have net positive effect (again, maybe, in certain contexts). Hydrogen peroxide specifically seems to be a species that can both cause damage *and* a specific signalling mechanism critical to preventing damage. See this short article or click through to the review paper for a bit on that as well as the "we have a lot learn before we give a recommendation" side of the equation.
OTOH if you think of H2O2 as an oxidative species, and decide to eat lots of fresh vegetables to try and keep those levels down (which is probably the best you can do), it's not like that's a *bad* thing.
posted by mark k at 9:32 PM on December 8, 2015
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posted by eas98 at 8:26 AM on December 8, 2015