Well, I used to be a 0 and now I'm a 6
December 3, 2015 8:22 AM Subscribe
Can one’s sexuality change?
Sexuality is fluid, but can one’s sexuality completely change due to external factors?
I know people can identify as different things at different times in their lives, or never change their sexual identity depending on where they fall on the Kinsey scale*. But is it possible for one’s sexual orientation to change completely? Can someone go from being bisexual to exclusively heterosexual or homosexual, or from heterosexual to asexual because of external factors such as conditioning, sexual trauma, choice, or anything else?
*I don’t think the Kinsey scale is a universal truth, but I feel it accurately expresses a (n admittedly binary) range of sexuality.
Sexuality is fluid, but can one’s sexuality completely change due to external factors?
I know people can identify as different things at different times in their lives, or never change their sexual identity depending on where they fall on the Kinsey scale*. But is it possible for one’s sexual orientation to change completely? Can someone go from being bisexual to exclusively heterosexual or homosexual, or from heterosexual to asexual because of external factors such as conditioning, sexual trauma, choice, or anything else?
*I don’t think the Kinsey scale is a universal truth, but I feel it accurately expresses a (n admittedly binary) range of sexuality.
Sure, particularly when you think about different things you want out of your sexual relationships with other people at different times in your life -- which itself can be affected by external factors.
I know a guy, for example, who seems to exclusively prefer relationships with women (and having children), but he has enjoyed sex with men. I wouldn't call him straight, gay OR bisexual; however, if he were in a position where his desire for sexual enjoyment of particular activities superseded his desire for a romantic relationship, perhaps he would end up more on the same-sex side than the opposite-sex side. Who knows.
Cynthia Nixon is an example of someone who states that *even though she believes that it is not necessarily a choice for most people* she made a choice to be with a woman.
More specifically, I don't think you should necessarily worry about "can it change" or "will it change" unless it actually does. And when that happens... well, it's happened, and you can't change THAT. So be gentle with yourself (or with the person in your life who is thinking about this type of thing). It's true that being perceived as straight is different than being perceived as not-straight... but when you get down to it, being with someone you care about and enjoy doing stuff with (sexually or not) is more indicative of being happy than a lot of other things.
Focus on what is important for YOU, not whether things are happening as you perceive society thinks they should.
posted by St. Hubbins at 8:38 AM on December 3, 2015 [1 favorite]
I know a guy, for example, who seems to exclusively prefer relationships with women (and having children), but he has enjoyed sex with men. I wouldn't call him straight, gay OR bisexual; however, if he were in a position where his desire for sexual enjoyment of particular activities superseded his desire for a romantic relationship, perhaps he would end up more on the same-sex side than the opposite-sex side. Who knows.
Cynthia Nixon is an example of someone who states that *even though she believes that it is not necessarily a choice for most people* she made a choice to be with a woman.
More specifically, I don't think you should necessarily worry about "can it change" or "will it change" unless it actually does. And when that happens... well, it's happened, and you can't change THAT. So be gentle with yourself (or with the person in your life who is thinking about this type of thing). It's true that being perceived as straight is different than being perceived as not-straight... but when you get down to it, being with someone you care about and enjoy doing stuff with (sexually or not) is more indicative of being happy than a lot of other things.
Focus on what is important for YOU, not whether things are happening as you perceive society thinks they should.
posted by St. Hubbins at 8:38 AM on December 3, 2015 [1 favorite]
as someone who is fluid and who has moved around the scale somewhat, i think that some people are fluid and some people are binary and both can exist under the "born this way" view - i was born fluid, that doesn't mean other people weren't born 100% straight or 100% gay or 100% right down the center. people who have sexualities that can "change" because of external factors, in my view, were born fluid.
posted by nadawi at 8:46 AM on December 3, 2015 [11 favorites]
posted by nadawi at 8:46 AM on December 3, 2015 [11 favorites]
There are those who are born to change and there are those who are changed by outside influences such as trauma, hormonal issues, brain tumors, etc.
Anyone who experiences an extreme change in personality or sexual preference should be evaluated by a doctor, as this could indicate a medical condition.
posted by myselfasme at 8:47 AM on December 3, 2015
Anyone who experiences an extreme change in personality or sexual preference should be evaluated by a doctor, as this could indicate a medical condition.
posted by myselfasme at 8:47 AM on December 3, 2015
Yes, humans can change.
posted by lunastellasol at 8:49 AM on December 3, 2015 [3 favorites]
posted by lunastellasol at 8:49 AM on December 3, 2015 [3 favorites]
Best answer: There's what I think are two parts to this question, one of which is probably unanswerable.
If there's an "underlying" or "hardwired" sexuality (maybe? maybe not?), can that change? I think that's unanswerable at this point, and a question that I think really doesn't need to be pursued - it seems like one of those questions that leads to bad things for marginalized groups.
The expression of sexuality can definitely change, at random or in response to all kinds of things. Maybe this is because the people whose sexuality changes are "underlyingly" pansexual/bisexual/something different from what they thought, and the conditions to express that sexuality change. Maybe it's because there is no absolutely hardwired sexuality for most people and it's all social.
Example: I often think of Maynard Keynes, who was enthusiastically gay until his early forties, when he fell in passionately in love with a ballerina, married her and never looked back.
posted by Frowner at 8:50 AM on December 3, 2015 [6 favorites]
If there's an "underlying" or "hardwired" sexuality (maybe? maybe not?), can that change? I think that's unanswerable at this point, and a question that I think really doesn't need to be pursued - it seems like one of those questions that leads to bad things for marginalized groups.
The expression of sexuality can definitely change, at random or in response to all kinds of things. Maybe this is because the people whose sexuality changes are "underlyingly" pansexual/bisexual/something different from what they thought, and the conditions to express that sexuality change. Maybe it's because there is no absolutely hardwired sexuality for most people and it's all social.
Example: I often think of Maynard Keynes, who was enthusiastically gay until his early forties, when he fell in passionately in love with a ballerina, married her and never looked back.
posted by Frowner at 8:50 AM on December 3, 2015 [6 favorites]
This is not a popular opinion, but I think that this is a gendered question. Yes, there have been gay men that have gotten into relationships with woman, but we know about them because they're the exceptions that prove the rule. Whereas it seems that female sexuality is a lot more fluid, for whatever reason.
I also believe that bisexuality is more common that people like to admit, and that there are people (men and women) out there that are sexually attracted to both sexes, but only fall in love with one, but that this is probably more common with men.
posted by Automocar at 8:58 AM on December 3, 2015 [2 favorites]
I also believe that bisexuality is more common that people like to admit, and that there are people (men and women) out there that are sexually attracted to both sexes, but only fall in love with one, but that this is probably more common with men.
posted by Automocar at 8:58 AM on December 3, 2015 [2 favorites]
I think some parts of change also hinge on awareness that alternatives are available. I had no idea that even the concept of asexuality existed until maybe five years ago, and I've been living as an ace for several years now.
posted by mochapickle at 9:02 AM on December 3, 2015 [3 favorites]
posted by mochapickle at 9:02 AM on December 3, 2015 [3 favorites]
Absolutely.
posted by town of cats at 9:16 AM on December 3, 2015
posted by town of cats at 9:16 AM on December 3, 2015
I've gone from asexual to pansexual to queer leaning lesbian. It's possible. The not-knowing-alternatives factor is strong: once I grew in sexual experience, I had a better understanding of what it is I'm really after sexuality-wise.
posted by divabat at 9:20 AM on December 3, 2015 [1 favorite]
posted by divabat at 9:20 AM on December 3, 2015 [1 favorite]
I always assumed that we've been saying "sexuality is innate" and "born this way" with a good helping of wink wink nudge nudge. The lack of acceptance of any sexual identity other than heterosexuality has required adoption of this stance, but now that our culture is a tiny bit more open to the idea that sexual expression outside of that is okay, we're starting to be more upfront that things are really a bit more complicated. Not that sexuality is a choice per se, more that these things can change and, really, there is nothing wrong with that.
I've know a few middle-aged women who started dating women exclusively after ending long marriages to men. And it's not like they were in the closet during their marriages. It was more that, once they got out of them, they reevaluated dating, romance and relationships and decided that women were a much more appealing option than they had ever before considered. Although part of that might have to do with how unappealing it is to date men as a late middle-aged woman. I've heard it is kind of soul-crushing.
posted by scantee at 9:31 AM on December 3, 2015 [4 favorites]
I've know a few middle-aged women who started dating women exclusively after ending long marriages to men. And it's not like they were in the closet during their marriages. It was more that, once they got out of them, they reevaluated dating, romance and relationships and decided that women were a much more appealing option than they had ever before considered. Although part of that might have to do with how unappealing it is to date men as a late middle-aged woman. I've heard it is kind of soul-crushing.
posted by scantee at 9:31 AM on December 3, 2015 [4 favorites]
Best answer: Of course, and people can choose to only express certain facets of their sexual orientation or gender, or be forced by circumstance, or only have the self-awareness to express certain facets because of culture or lack of exposure or perspective.
At 43 I certainly have a much more nuanced understanding of my own wiring than I did at 23, and also enough life experience to know that wiring is quite a different thing from what I'd actually be willing to make an effort to do or be or identify as in the real world. There's a lot of choices I have and/or would make in there, and it's political and economic and personal and also a factor of what I know now versus what I used to know (and finally being old enough to know that I don't actually know everything yet).
People also have the ability to choose to do something that's completely separate from their personal private feelings about it, for reasons. Probably the most obvious example is people who proclaim/perform rigid heterosexuality because of social pressure rather than personal preference, but there are other variations.
posted by Lyn Never at 9:33 AM on December 3, 2015 [1 favorite]
At 43 I certainly have a much more nuanced understanding of my own wiring than I did at 23, and also enough life experience to know that wiring is quite a different thing from what I'd actually be willing to make an effort to do or be or identify as in the real world. There's a lot of choices I have and/or would make in there, and it's political and economic and personal and also a factor of what I know now versus what I used to know (and finally being old enough to know that I don't actually know everything yet).
People also have the ability to choose to do something that's completely separate from their personal private feelings about it, for reasons. Probably the most obvious example is people who proclaim/perform rigid heterosexuality because of social pressure rather than personal preference, but there are other variations.
posted by Lyn Never at 9:33 AM on December 3, 2015 [1 favorite]
The scientific research on this differs from the current cultural and political timbre (in the U.S., at least). In some instances this leads to statements that seem very correct but that do not relate well. For instance, we (almost?) all criticize the concept of sexual orientation conversion therapy as a demonstrable, empirical failure and impossibility. The same goes for peri-natal or pre-pubescent gender assignment (especially among intersex people whose medical caregivers or parents make the decision to do so). Yet there is an equal desire to assume the fluidity of sexual preference, as well as gender, in self-directing adults. We haven't quite sorted this out in the research world, but researchers recognize the common thread: we don't know much about sexuality but we (culturally speaking) are moving toward a desire for it to be under the control of an individual's will and consent.
Someone above mentions that which is demonstrably true, and that is that the expression of sexuality can certainly change. This is a complex thought, though, and doesn't necessarily mean that a fundamental, uncontrollable orientation must change (a classical example is a person raised with the expectation of being heterosexual, who perhaps marries and has children, but ultimately realizes their orientation to be in conflict with experience followed by behaviors that change accordingly). There's a lot of literature out there on this subject (here's a good starter link, there are loads of useful references within; the Journal of Sex research would be a good resource, too, they have lots of papers like this one on the subject).
Otherwise, no, current thinking is that orientation is likely mostly fixed and not as variable as the expression of sexuality. There are few cases, for example, of people whose sexuality has changed on a self-reported basis following brain injury. Nevertheless, there are dynamics involved, but they're hard to pin down because this all more or less comes down to self-reported data, which we know is prone to significant bias Again, there's a lot of research out there that can help you get a handle on this nascent, growing field of study (the Journal of Homosexuality, for one, is a great resource).
posted by late afternoon dreaming hotel at 9:41 AM on December 3, 2015 [11 favorites]
Someone above mentions that which is demonstrably true, and that is that the expression of sexuality can certainly change. This is a complex thought, though, and doesn't necessarily mean that a fundamental, uncontrollable orientation must change (a classical example is a person raised with the expectation of being heterosexual, who perhaps marries and has children, but ultimately realizes their orientation to be in conflict with experience followed by behaviors that change accordingly). There's a lot of literature out there on this subject (here's a good starter link, there are loads of useful references within; the Journal of Sex research would be a good resource, too, they have lots of papers like this one on the subject).
Otherwise, no, current thinking is that orientation is likely mostly fixed and not as variable as the expression of sexuality. There are few cases, for example, of people whose sexuality has changed on a self-reported basis following brain injury. Nevertheless, there are dynamics involved, but they're hard to pin down because this all more or less comes down to self-reported data, which we know is prone to significant bias Again, there's a lot of research out there that can help you get a handle on this nascent, growing field of study (the Journal of Homosexuality, for one, is a great resource).
posted by late afternoon dreaming hotel at 9:41 AM on December 3, 2015 [11 favorites]
It's super common in the trans male community to go from "lesbian" to bisexual or even gay after starting hormones (testosterone).
I personally identified as bisexual before I realized I was trans, because I somehow associated my gender presentation with sexuality (i.e. women who wore men's clothes must not be straight). When I figured out I was a trans guy, I realized that I was never really sexually attracted to women at all, only men (though I did have romantic crushes on women Call me, Gillian Anderson). So now I identify as gay.
But I'm just starting testosterone and other trans men tell me I'm likely to start noticing women more.... so who knows.
posted by desjardins at 10:50 AM on December 3, 2015 [9 favorites]
I personally identified as bisexual before I realized I was trans, because I somehow associated my gender presentation with sexuality (i.e. women who wore men's clothes must not be straight). When I figured out I was a trans guy, I realized that I was never really sexually attracted to women at all, only men (though I did have romantic crushes on women Call me, Gillian Anderson). So now I identify as gay.
But I'm just starting testosterone and other trans men tell me I'm likely to start noticing women more.... so who knows.
posted by desjardins at 10:50 AM on December 3, 2015 [9 favorites]
Re: your question about external circumstances changing sexual orientation, I feel it's commonly documented that in some circumstances people will have gay/queer sex or relationships but only until their circumstances change. Ie: "gay for the stay" at all-women's college or private school, etc.
posted by SassHat at 12:21 PM on December 3, 2015
posted by SassHat at 12:21 PM on December 3, 2015
One semi-external circumstance that changed for me (cis woman) was that I moved away from home and began to rid myself of the internalized misogyny that I'd picked up in childhood. Turns out I'm like a 5 despite having dated/slept with men exclusively.
posted by coppermoss at 6:30 PM on December 3, 2015
posted by coppermoss at 6:30 PM on December 3, 2015
In my experience, people in the middle of the spectrum tend to have fluid sexuality. But people who are solely heterosexual or solely homosexual are more fixed over time.
Also: clearly middle aged women are more attractive than middle aged men. /not biased.
posted by jb at 8:10 PM on December 3, 2015 [1 favorite]
Also: clearly middle aged women are more attractive than middle aged men. /not biased.
posted by jb at 8:10 PM on December 3, 2015 [1 favorite]
Absolutely. The thing is, sexuality is a complicated and shifting thing with different aspects. Just for starters, there's who you desire, how you behave, and how you identify. You might have a guy who desires and has sex with men, but totally identifies as straight because he also identifies as male and men don't have sex with men, they have sex with women. Someone might have the theoretical desire for both men and women but be in a monogamous relationship with one person and not want anyone other than that person. That might or might not affect their identity.
I started life assuming I was straight because, well, wasn't everyone? At some point I started desiring women but was in denial about it for several years. Then I came out as bisexual and was really vociferous about claiming it as an identity, even while in a poly relationship with a man (and the occasional other partner who might have been male or female or possibly both). Then things changed and I identified mostly as lesbian and monogamous, though queer was a more comfortable label.
Now I've fallen in love again and it's with someone who is genderqueer and who has another partner. I still don't really identify as poly, but it seems to be working. And does it make me lesbian? Or straight? Neither? Both? Why should I define my identity based on who I am sleeping with? Since it's an LDR and we haven't yet met in the flesh, is this even a real thing (according to some people, no; according to me and my parter, definitely it is!)
Like I said, it's complicated. Gender can be complicated and hard to label. Sexuality can be complicated and hard to label. When you combine the two - trying to give yourself a label based on your gender and the gender of the person or people you desire, it winds up sometimes being so complicated and indefinable as to be meaningless. Ultimately, it's all love between people and that's all that really matters.
posted by Athanassiel at 8:46 PM on December 3, 2015 [1 favorite]
I started life assuming I was straight because, well, wasn't everyone? At some point I started desiring women but was in denial about it for several years. Then I came out as bisexual and was really vociferous about claiming it as an identity, even while in a poly relationship with a man (and the occasional other partner who might have been male or female or possibly both). Then things changed and I identified mostly as lesbian and monogamous, though queer was a more comfortable label.
Now I've fallen in love again and it's with someone who is genderqueer and who has another partner. I still don't really identify as poly, but it seems to be working. And does it make me lesbian? Or straight? Neither? Both? Why should I define my identity based on who I am sleeping with? Since it's an LDR and we haven't yet met in the flesh, is this even a real thing (according to some people, no; according to me and my parter, definitely it is!)
Like I said, it's complicated. Gender can be complicated and hard to label. Sexuality can be complicated and hard to label. When you combine the two - trying to give yourself a label based on your gender and the gender of the person or people you desire, it winds up sometimes being so complicated and indefinable as to be meaningless. Ultimately, it's all love between people and that's all that really matters.
posted by Athanassiel at 8:46 PM on December 3, 2015 [1 favorite]
And of course then there is asexuality, grey-asexual, romantic asexuality vs aromantic asexuality. So the desire thing isn't an automatic component either. I just didn't talk much about that because it's not really part of my experience and I don't want to speak for others. But that's totally part of the spectrum too.
posted by Athanassiel at 8:48 PM on December 3, 2015
posted by Athanassiel at 8:48 PM on December 3, 2015
How fluid someone's identity is over time is one of the variables in human sexuality. Like anything else, it can be represented as a spectrum (though I'd like to acknowledge than I'm not a huge fan of the "gender spectrum" with masculine & feminine as entirely opposite binary poles).
Sexual Identity Fluidity Spectrum
Very fixed -------------------------- Very Fluid
Some people are over on one side of the spectrum, with very very very fixed sexualities, always knew, not a huge fan of imagining things any different, stop asking me questions. On the other side, yes, there are people whose identities have changed very substantially over time; even just this thread will provide anecdotal evidence for that.
posted by Juliet Banana at 12:45 AM on December 4, 2015 [1 favorite]
Sexual Identity Fluidity Spectrum
Very fixed -------------------------- Very Fluid
Some people are over on one side of the spectrum, with very very very fixed sexualities, always knew, not a huge fan of imagining things any different, stop asking me questions. On the other side, yes, there are people whose identities have changed very substantially over time; even just this thread will provide anecdotal evidence for that.
posted by Juliet Banana at 12:45 AM on December 4, 2015 [1 favorite]
It depends on what you mean by sexuality. Do you mean sexual feelings or do you mean people you can actually, physically have sex with? I think lots of people are 'fluid' when it comes to having sexual feelings for someone but when it comes down to the actual act of sex, I think it's difficult to change whether or not you are physically attracted to specific private parts. You can be sexually aroused by an idea but not want to act it out. Does this make you fluid?
Whereas it seems that female sexuality is a lot more fluid, for whatever reason
I think the reason is obvious in that we're raised with images of women being objectified and not men (a man baring just his chest in a magazine is not sexual objectification, sorry). We view our sexuality through the eyes of straight men meaning that we imagine the female body men lust for as if we were the men were looking at it. Do that enough times and you'll find yourself 'fluid' too. To complicate matters, we are also the 'female body' in the fantasy. We are both the objectifying man and the objectified woman rather than having our own subjective gaze and lusting after the men directly. Right now in our culture, for younger girls and alert women, it's very slowly becoming a combination of both. There is still nowhere near enough female gaze in the culture. No 'magazines for straight girls to wank to' etc. If straight men were fed sexualised images of men only and never women, I think they'd find themselves in the same situation. Add to that the fact that women don't develop characters based upon 'shutting everything out' and are instead encouraged to be open as people and you have your reason.
posted by ihaveyourfoot at 3:33 AM on December 4, 2015 [4 favorites]
Whereas it seems that female sexuality is a lot more fluid, for whatever reason
I think the reason is obvious in that we're raised with images of women being objectified and not men (a man baring just his chest in a magazine is not sexual objectification, sorry). We view our sexuality through the eyes of straight men meaning that we imagine the female body men lust for as if we were the men were looking at it. Do that enough times and you'll find yourself 'fluid' too. To complicate matters, we are also the 'female body' in the fantasy. We are both the objectifying man and the objectified woman rather than having our own subjective gaze and lusting after the men directly. Right now in our culture, for younger girls and alert women, it's very slowly becoming a combination of both. There is still nowhere near enough female gaze in the culture. No 'magazines for straight girls to wank to' etc. If straight men were fed sexualised images of men only and never women, I think they'd find themselves in the same situation. Add to that the fact that women don't develop characters based upon 'shutting everything out' and are instead encouraged to be open as people and you have your reason.
posted by ihaveyourfoot at 3:33 AM on December 4, 2015 [4 favorites]
Whereas it seems that female sexuality is a lot more fluid, for whatever reason
For all I know it might actually be the case, but it assuredly does not seem that way. The entire seeming cultural construction of male sexuality is about how men are so strong in their inchoate appetites but so weak in their directed desires that their sexuality is genuinely indiscriminate: women are reminded from all sides not to think that being lusted after by a man actually means anything, since men supposedly lack the experience of specific longings: a man's visceral experience of attraction, so we are told, is so meaningless that you cannot conclude that a man is attracted to you, much less the sex you belong to, simply because he makes every effort to have sex with you and then does so and even derives pleasure from it. If women are 'fluid', men are gaseous. Militaries and boarding schools the world over attest to men's sexual fluidity as regards gender preference. Men are so fluid that they can even trade off dominance and sexuality so as to get the pleasures of one from the other, when needed, the way you can trade food and sleep for while when you're deprived of one or the other. If you went by what seems,, you'd have to conclude that men are so fluid they don't have what we understand to be a sexuality at all.
and all this isn't even outright nonsense the way claims about women's sexuality generally are.
posted by queenofbithynia at 5:41 AM on December 4, 2015 [4 favorites]
For all I know it might actually be the case, but it assuredly does not seem that way. The entire seeming cultural construction of male sexuality is about how men are so strong in their inchoate appetites but so weak in their directed desires that their sexuality is genuinely indiscriminate: women are reminded from all sides not to think that being lusted after by a man actually means anything, since men supposedly lack the experience of specific longings: a man's visceral experience of attraction, so we are told, is so meaningless that you cannot conclude that a man is attracted to you, much less the sex you belong to, simply because he makes every effort to have sex with you and then does so and even derives pleasure from it. If women are 'fluid', men are gaseous. Militaries and boarding schools the world over attest to men's sexual fluidity as regards gender preference. Men are so fluid that they can even trade off dominance and sexuality so as to get the pleasures of one from the other, when needed, the way you can trade food and sleep for while when you're deprived of one or the other. If you went by what seems,, you'd have to conclude that men are so fluid they don't have what we understand to be a sexuality at all.
and all this isn't even outright nonsense the way claims about women's sexuality generally are.
posted by queenofbithynia at 5:41 AM on December 4, 2015 [4 favorites]
Best answer: Some historical stuff about male sexuality that might be of use:
Consider ancient Greece, certain parts of samurai culture, all-male boarding schools, various tribal societies....there are many, many examples of male social groupings where it was normal to have sex with and be attracted to men either concurrently with women or prior to getting involved with women. All you have to do is read the memoirs of men who were basically straight in adulthood but who describe crushes, desire and sexual relationships in boarding school to see that male sexual desire certainly can be very fluid over time and circumstance. (Or consider that "why do straight men have sex with each other" article and accompanying furor earlier this year.)
We have a homophobic, misogynist narrative which pressures men to deny sexual fluidity whether we're talking about gay or straight men (consider Dan Savage and his former "there are no bisexual men" nonsense) and which pressures women to be "fluid" when "fluid" means "accommodating" - I know several straight women who routinely get all the "why don't you just date women if you're having trouble with men" stuff, and there's the whole thing of how women are supposed to be cool with threesomes with another woman, but it's okay if men are squicked out by the idea of a threesome with a woman and a man. This set of ideas is changing, but still powerful and pervasive.
posted by Frowner at 6:10 AM on December 4, 2015 [5 favorites]
Consider ancient Greece, certain parts of samurai culture, all-male boarding schools, various tribal societies....there are many, many examples of male social groupings where it was normal to have sex with and be attracted to men either concurrently with women or prior to getting involved with women. All you have to do is read the memoirs of men who were basically straight in adulthood but who describe crushes, desire and sexual relationships in boarding school to see that male sexual desire certainly can be very fluid over time and circumstance. (Or consider that "why do straight men have sex with each other" article and accompanying furor earlier this year.)
We have a homophobic, misogynist narrative which pressures men to deny sexual fluidity whether we're talking about gay or straight men (consider Dan Savage and his former "there are no bisexual men" nonsense) and which pressures women to be "fluid" when "fluid" means "accommodating" - I know several straight women who routinely get all the "why don't you just date women if you're having trouble with men" stuff, and there's the whole thing of how women are supposed to be cool with threesomes with another woman, but it's okay if men are squicked out by the idea of a threesome with a woman and a man. This set of ideas is changing, but still powerful and pervasive.
posted by Frowner at 6:10 AM on December 4, 2015 [5 favorites]
fluid" when "fluid" means "accommodating
yeah. A fluid conforms its shape to fit the container it's confined in. "Sexuality is fluid," while it may be true when preceded by a "my," has no business being traded around like a comforting homily or a global truth.
posted by queenofbithynia at 8:33 AM on December 4, 2015 [1 favorite]
yeah. A fluid conforms its shape to fit the container it's confined in. "Sexuality is fluid," while it may be true when preceded by a "my," has no business being traded around like a comforting homily or a global truth.
posted by queenofbithynia at 8:33 AM on December 4, 2015 [1 favorite]
I don't know about external factors, but I've certainly known people whose experience of their sexuality and who they were attracted to has changed over time.
I think external factors may change how people express their sexuality, but I don't think that one can, for example, pray away the gay, or choose to be lesbian because men are terrible, or similar.
posted by bile and syntax at 6:20 PM on December 4, 2015
I think external factors may change how people express their sexuality, but I don't think that one can, for example, pray away the gay, or choose to be lesbian because men are terrible, or similar.
posted by bile and syntax at 6:20 PM on December 4, 2015
If you're interested in this subject, I want to recommend Lisa Diamond's excellent book Sexual Fluidity. She did a long-term study on the attachments and attractions of a group of about a hundred women (her initial premise was that fluidity is more common in women than in men and this has contributed to its being under-studied, but she's been reevaluating that idea since the book came out and now thinks it is common in men as well). I'm not really doing this justice, but she determined that sexual orientation and sexual fluidity are actually different dimensions of sexuality; that is, fluidity is pretty common over a lifespan, but it doesn't indicate that most people are bisexual or that their sexual orientation has itself changed (though it sometimes may). This article explains it better than I am doing here. Anyway, it's a complex subject (the answer to your question is probably "sometimes, but usually not by choice") but that book is a great place to start.
posted by thetortoise at 10:51 PM on December 5, 2015 [2 favorites]
posted by thetortoise at 10:51 PM on December 5, 2015 [2 favorites]
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