Setting boundaries re my friends' love lives
October 6, 2015 9:12 PM
When is it appropriate to set a boundary regarding how much time you spend dealing with your friends’ romantic turmoil? And how do you set healthy boundaries? I’m not referring to things like supporting a friend through a breakup, but, rather, more ongoing situations. More inside.
I’m 33 and have been single for quite a while, though I have dated recently. The friends I’m thinking about are around my age and include men and women, gay and straight.
I have a few people that I care about a lot who tend to get really intense/obsessive about their love lives, can only talk about their significant other, etc. And these friends also have a habit of becoming very unhappy in their relationships but staying with their SO for months afterward, often monopolizing our conversations to complain. I am not talking about abuse, just unhappiness.
I want to support them, but frankly I am worn out by this, I’m tired of seeing them get hurt, and I also just find it frustrating that these amazing people can be so wrapped up in that. I don’t expect that they will change and that their love lives will be less of a priority. But I am trying to tease out what boundaries are fair to set. I don’t want to lose these friendships because these people can also be wonderful. Some of them are in really draining cycles, and I don’t know how to break them without coming off like a selfish asshole.
I’m 33 and have been single for quite a while, though I have dated recently. The friends I’m thinking about are around my age and include men and women, gay and straight.
I have a few people that I care about a lot who tend to get really intense/obsessive about their love lives, can only talk about their significant other, etc. And these friends also have a habit of becoming very unhappy in their relationships but staying with their SO for months afterward, often monopolizing our conversations to complain. I am not talking about abuse, just unhappiness.
I want to support them, but frankly I am worn out by this, I’m tired of seeing them get hurt, and I also just find it frustrating that these amazing people can be so wrapped up in that. I don’t expect that they will change and that their love lives will be less of a priority. But I am trying to tease out what boundaries are fair to set. I don’t want to lose these friendships because these people can also be wonderful. Some of them are in really draining cycles, and I don’t know how to break them without coming off like a selfish asshole.
"Hey friend, I've noticed that we spend a lot of our time together talking about your relationship with X. I want you to be happy, but I'm feeling kind of worn out on that topic. Could we talk about other things more?"
posted by ottereroticist at 9:29 PM on October 6, 2015
posted by ottereroticist at 9:29 PM on October 6, 2015
I want to talk with you, but not about anyone else. If they persist, then mention they should be taking this up with their beloved.
posted by Oyéah at 10:02 PM on October 6, 2015
posted by Oyéah at 10:02 PM on October 6, 2015
It's a pretty touchy fine line, because y'know, put yourself in their shoes. As Irma Thomas sings, "Nobody wants to hear nobody's troubles and nobody wants their troubles left unheard."
I would probably say something like "I really want to be the good friend and I know you need to vent and express yourself and figure your stuff out, and I'm really listening...and therefore I'm feeling a little overwhelmed and worn out since I can't really do anything BUT listen. Maybe we could figure out some other things to do together that would be beneficial to your brain/heart and give you some fresh perspective." (Such as yoga, long bike ride, cathartic movie marathon, cleaning/reorganizing/repairing a neglected part of their home, etc.)
posted by desuetude at 10:50 PM on October 6, 2015
I would probably say something like "I really want to be the good friend and I know you need to vent and express yourself and figure your stuff out, and I'm really listening...and therefore I'm feeling a little overwhelmed and worn out since I can't really do anything BUT listen. Maybe we could figure out some other things to do together that would be beneficial to your brain/heart and give you some fresh perspective." (Such as yoga, long bike ride, cathartic movie marathon, cleaning/reorganizing/repairing a neglected part of their home, etc.)
posted by desuetude at 10:50 PM on October 6, 2015
I'm not sure if there is a good way to give this kind of thing the soft-sell. But if I'm understanding you correctly, you're essentially unhappy at being used as an audience (and possibly an enabler) by people who thrive on relationship drama.
I've been in this position, and I think it's important to understand that you're not being a selfish asshole because you don't want to play this role anymore. There is a difference between being there for a friend who just had a bad break-up, and being a convenient witness / audience for The Daily Drama.
I'm sorry, but I do not know of any "magic answer" to your question. The most efficient scheme I could come up with involved leaving whenever they started up with the latest drama. And it might be worthwhile to re-evaluate some of these friendships: are you really getting something out of this?
posted by doctor tough love at 11:13 PM on October 6, 2015
I've been in this position, and I think it's important to understand that you're not being a selfish asshole because you don't want to play this role anymore. There is a difference between being there for a friend who just had a bad break-up, and being a convenient witness / audience for The Daily Drama.
I'm sorry, but I do not know of any "magic answer" to your question. The most efficient scheme I could come up with involved leaving whenever they started up with the latest drama. And it might be worthwhile to re-evaluate some of these friendships: are you really getting something out of this?
posted by doctor tough love at 11:13 PM on October 6, 2015
It's the same thing when you're single and everyone you know has kids or pets and they only ever talk about their kids or pets and it's draining and uninteresting and you feel like those passengers in Airplane! sitting next to Ted Stryker complain about Elaine and you just want to pour gasoline on your head and light a match....
YOU CHANGE THE SUBJECT and force them to talk about something else. That's the nicest way of saying STOP TALKING ABOUT YOUR KIDS ALL THE TIME and it's the nicest way to say STOP TALKING ABOUT YOUR LOVE LIFE ALL THE TIME.
Surely you have other things to talk about.
posted by three blind mice at 12:24 AM on October 7, 2015
YOU CHANGE THE SUBJECT and force them to talk about something else. That's the nicest way of saying STOP TALKING ABOUT YOUR KIDS ALL THE TIME and it's the nicest way to say STOP TALKING ABOUT YOUR LOVE LIFE ALL THE TIME.
Surely you have other things to talk about.
posted by three blind mice at 12:24 AM on October 7, 2015
Well, my go to answer is, "that sounds bad. What are you going to do now?" I likeit because it puts the focus on them acting instead of being a victim. And sometimes they want to put together a plan and it turns into something productive.
Usually, however, the answer will be something like "I don't know! Everything is awful! No reasonable suggestion I have ever received will work because Reasons! Waaaaaaah."
I'll say, "that sucks." Or "uhuh."
And then I'll change the subject whenever I can.
If you do that a couple of times people will stop complaining to you so much because they won't remember you as a good dispenser of sympathy. So only do this with regular drama queens.
posted by Omnomnom at 12:53 AM on October 7, 2015
Usually, however, the answer will be something like "I don't know! Everything is awful! No reasonable suggestion I have ever received will work because Reasons! Waaaaaaah."
I'll say, "that sucks." Or "uhuh."
And then I'll change the subject whenever I can.
If you do that a couple of times people will stop complaining to you so much because they won't remember you as a good dispenser of sympathy. So only do this with regular drama queens.
posted by Omnomnom at 12:53 AM on October 7, 2015
Yes! Just don't give these people the sympathy they're used to, and they'll stop using you as a sounding board because they're not getting what they want from you. Source: I've been that sounding board. You can feel strangely invisible, and drained afterwards.
posted by Ziggy500 at 2:43 AM on October 7, 2015
posted by Ziggy500 at 2:43 AM on October 7, 2015
Give them the real advice you've been wanting to give, not platitudes. They'll VERY quickly change subjects. One of the reasons they can drone on like this is that because you're habitually single they think you don't have the relationship expertise to recognize and call them on their BS.
Practice saying it into a mirror. "He's not that into you. She's a cruel narcissist. People lie on OKCupid. Try dating an accountant not a bartender next time." Etc.
posted by MattD at 4:09 AM on October 7, 2015
Practice saying it into a mirror. "He's not that into you. She's a cruel narcissist. People lie on OKCupid. Try dating an accountant not a bartender next time." Etc.
posted by MattD at 4:09 AM on October 7, 2015
I've been in that situation a few times, and found a very straightforward approach best when the other person can't see or break the pattern they repeat in relationships, including the pattern of going to the friend to lament the tales of woe. I say something to the effect of, "Friend, we've been down this road before, and you asked for my advice, none of which you have taken/used, and I don't have any other perspective to offer than the one I already have. Let's get a pizza!"
posted by archimago at 4:31 AM on October 7, 2015
posted by archimago at 4:31 AM on October 7, 2015
Yes, it's one thing when friends fall into unforeseen pitfalls, and another when they keep repeating the same mistakes. I had one particular friend who tended to date the same kind of guy -- not ones I thought were particularly nice -- and she had a similar pattern: Several months of telling me how wonderful everything was during the courtship, followed by several months of complaining once the relationship was established.
With her most recent fella, the boundary I set was that I didn't want to meet him or discuss him for a year. (I've figured that's pretty much the sell-by date for her to figure out he's manipulative and self-centered.) I stuck to that boundary, but it made her angry and we currently aren't speaking much. I'm sure I will in the future, but for now, while I do miss her, I do not miss the drama.
posted by Gelatin at 4:37 AM on October 7, 2015
With her most recent fella, the boundary I set was that I didn't want to meet him or discuss him for a year. (I've figured that's pretty much the sell-by date for her to figure out he's manipulative and self-centered.) I stuck to that boundary, but it made her angry and we currently aren't speaking much. I'm sure I will in the future, but for now, while I do miss her, I do not miss the drama.
posted by Gelatin at 4:37 AM on October 7, 2015
Well, my go to answer is, "that sounds bad. What are you going to do now?"
I've used that exact line a few times, along with just sort of not engaging with the drama. More "uh huh, uh huh, ok, so what are you going to do about it?" rather than reinforcing and engaging with each item.
And when people really insist on the drama, I'll spend less time with them for a while until the current issues play out.
posted by Dip Flash at 4:58 AM on October 7, 2015
This is not about your relationship status. This keeps happening because you are giving them what they want and because what they want feels good. I've had friends like yours. If I ha a nickel for every "friend" who has gushed to me that talking to me is as good as or better than talking to a therapist I would be rich (and I would probably have more bad friends who liked me for my money, but I digress).
You've got to set the boundary. And here's the trickiest thing about setting boundaries: a boundary is just another way of saying "no." And no one likes to be told "no." Some of us - people like me, like you - don't like even saying the word no! So, it can be difficult. And you can't control their reaction. No matter how nicely you say it, some people might not do well with the boundary because you're taking away something that feels good to them when you take your ears away from these conversations.
So your first step is taking some deep breaths and realizing that it's ok to say no and some people might not like it but that doesn't make it any less ok or important for you to do in order to take care of yourself.
The book Codependent No More was very helpful when I learned about boundaries.
Coming to terms with the fact that I may lose some friends when I set those boundaries was hard. But the hard part is over now and I'm no longer being woken up with "crises" about their failed dates or being interrupted at work because a "friend" saw someone who looked like their (non-violent, just didn't want to deal with the codependency any longer) ex. And my life is better. Sure, I miss them! I miss the good parts! But it's like... when I discovered a bunch of mold along the side of a delicious expensive slice of bakery cake. It was creeping into the icing and I couldn't tell but possibly the whole thing was ruined. So I threw it out. Yeah, I missed the delicious unscathed parts of that cake! But I moved on and got better cake that wasn't moldy, and at this point I've got an entire bakery in my contacts list of real friends with whom I have real relationships.
Take care.
posted by sockermom at 5:45 AM on October 7, 2015
You've got to set the boundary. And here's the trickiest thing about setting boundaries: a boundary is just another way of saying "no." And no one likes to be told "no." Some of us - people like me, like you - don't like even saying the word no! So, it can be difficult. And you can't control their reaction. No matter how nicely you say it, some people might not do well with the boundary because you're taking away something that feels good to them when you take your ears away from these conversations.
So your first step is taking some deep breaths and realizing that it's ok to say no and some people might not like it but that doesn't make it any less ok or important for you to do in order to take care of yourself.
The book Codependent No More was very helpful when I learned about boundaries.
Coming to terms with the fact that I may lose some friends when I set those boundaries was hard. But the hard part is over now and I'm no longer being woken up with "crises" about their failed dates or being interrupted at work because a "friend" saw someone who looked like their (non-violent, just didn't want to deal with the codependency any longer) ex. And my life is better. Sure, I miss them! I miss the good parts! But it's like... when I discovered a bunch of mold along the side of a delicious expensive slice of bakery cake. It was creeping into the icing and I couldn't tell but possibly the whole thing was ruined. So I threw it out. Yeah, I missed the delicious unscathed parts of that cake! But I moved on and got better cake that wasn't moldy, and at this point I've got an entire bakery in my contacts list of real friends with whom I have real relationships.
Take care.
posted by sockermom at 5:45 AM on October 7, 2015
My wife was in a similar situation last year; eventually she had a sit-down with the friend and told her (in so many words) "I am your friend, and I am here for you, but this situation has been going on for a long time and there doesn't seem to be anything else I can do for you. It's time for you to start helping yourself."
posted by The Card Cheat at 6:57 AM on October 7, 2015
posted by The Card Cheat at 6:57 AM on October 7, 2015
Depressed people will talk and talk. A good way to be a friend is to say Listen, I've reached my saturation point on this for today, let's go for a walk/ see a movie/ some other activity. Being active is better for them, and for you, too.
posted by theora55 at 7:11 AM on October 7, 2015
posted by theora55 at 7:11 AM on October 7, 2015
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posted by Ruki at 9:20 PM on October 6, 2015