Get over it.
August 6, 2015 12:26 PM   Subscribe

Previously abusive parent expresses this sentiment to their adult child: people make mistakes; that doesn't make them bad, it makes them human, and they shouldn't have to pay for it the rest of their lives. What is a healthy internal response? What is a healthy response to the parent?

This was directed publicly, online, to my sibling. Parent was definitely referring to their own "mistakes." I don't know what prompted it, but I'm reacting emotionally to it, and I can easily see it being directed to me at some point, especially if I decide to break contact in the future or otherwise explicitly limit involvement. (So far, I've limited contact in a fairly passive way.) I'd like to have something useful to say in support of my sibling if they need it, too.

Last time I responded to gross behavior during a visit by leaving, and parent expressed dismay that they didn't realize I was so sensitive. Parent does not get it. I am confident that parent will not ever get it.

Really trying not to sink into anger about who exactly is paying for the rest of their lives, but rather stand in a position of strength with healthy boundaries.
posted by Eolienne to Human Relations (41 answers total) 31 users marked this as a favorite
 
This might be a little simplistic, but as far as something that you can internalize and say externally in support of your sibling: You and your sibling(s) do not owe your parent forgiveness, regardless of how much Parent may be demanding it.

Maybe it will come some day, and maybe it will be something that you do privately in your heart that never gets communicated to Parent. And if that makes Parent sad, so be it.

Good luck.
posted by sparklemotion at 12:34 PM on August 6, 2015 [9 favorites]


"Hmm, Parent, maybe you want to consult a lawyer before basically confessing to abusing your child on the internet, i.e. publicly."
posted by sexyrobot at 12:37 PM on August 6, 2015 [3 favorites]


Best answer: Unless and until parent has heard, acknowledged, and made amends for the harm their abusive behavior has caused, this kind of statement should be seen for what it is: denial, avoidance, and victim-blaming.

Parent's manipulative reactions to your setting boundaries are parent's problem, not yours. Don't let it in, don't take it on, and above all don't let them guilt you into any level of contact that leaves you feeling shitty.
posted by ottereroticist at 12:38 PM on August 6, 2015 [53 favorites]


Best answer: It's true. People make mistakes; that doesn't make them bad, it makes them human, and they shouldn't have to pay for it the rest of their lives. Those are not necessarily wrong sentiments, generally. It's okay to agree with those sentiments, generally.

But that doesn't mean that you owe them anything. Your parent may believe that they are owed forgiveness because of the universal human experience of making mistakes. They are not. They are not owed anything by anyone. They can forgive themselves, and they can reexamine their own humanity, and they can choose to move forward. Or not. It's on them. You cannot bestow it upon them or do the work for them. It is not conveyed, it comes from within.

You can choose to acknowledge the common humanity of another person without giving them a piece of you. That's a healthy boundary regardless of who that other person is.
posted by juniperesque at 12:41 PM on August 6, 2015 [35 favorites]


1. People wanting forgiveness need to earn it - recognize their mistakes, take responsibility, make amends, make steps to insure they don't repeat their mistakes again and again. Don't see the parent doing any of that - so no, hasn't earned any forgiveness. (just saying "sorry" is only one small part of the process. "sorry" is not a "get out jail free" card)

2. Even if you choose to forgive a person, that just means that you don't bear malice towards them - it is about letting go of anger and hatred. Forgiveness does NOT mean that you need to be in a current relationship - you can forgive but still keep your distance, particularly if the person is likely to repeat their mistakes again in the future. Forgiving does not mean forgetting or erasing the past. So, even if you do some day decide to forgive, your parent might still be unhappy that you aren't wiling to just pretend everything is fine - and that unhappiness is their problem, not yours.
posted by metahawk at 12:42 PM on August 6, 2015 [7 favorites]


I just saw this quote: "Sorry" works when a mistake is made, but not when trust is broken. So in life, make mistakes but never break trust. Because forgiving is easy, but forgetting and trusting again is sometimes impossible.

And I'd like to add that forgiving is often NOT easy.

And "mistake" is not in anyway synonymous with abuse, in my book.
posted by Sassyfras at 12:43 PM on August 6, 2015 [17 favorites]


Forgiveness is given - it is never taken, never demanded.
It is not the parents place (as the abuser) to decide when, where, why, or even if, forgiveness occurs.
posted by Flood at 12:45 PM on August 6, 2015 [12 favorites]


maybe this isn't helpful, but... the way you phrase the question is a little odd. anger isn't necessarily something to be avoided. it can be used as a way to gain the strength you need.

there's definitely something cultural here, and perhaps class-based too. educated americans i know seem to be very wary of being angry. which is admirable. but sometimes it feels like they're missing out on something.

in my world, it's kind-of ok to be angry, sometimes. it's kind-of ok to show you're angry, sometimes. although obviously it shouldn't be common. and if the experiences you had as a child involved anger then it may understandably feel very wrong.

anger management counselling goes both ways. it's for people who are "too" angry (duh). but it's also for people who aren't angry enough - or maybe are angry at the "wrong level" and in the "wrong way".

so i think one possible solution to the situation you found yourself in would have been to accept that anger and use it to your advantage. exactly how would depend on you, and on the situation. but if you could do that, you maybe wouldn't feel so trapped and / or helpless (if i am reading that right).

so kind of a meta-answer. sorry if it's not helpful.
posted by andrewcooke at 12:47 PM on August 6, 2015 [3 favorites]


Best answer: In both examples, the parent seeks to control the emotions and responses of the child. "You must not punish me for old mistakes, you must not be so sensitive."

The parent has no right to dictate the emotional responses of anyone, even their child. The healthy internal response is, "That is not up to you. You have no right to decide that, or anything, for me."
posted by Squeak Attack at 12:51 PM on August 6, 2015 [25 favorites]


My personal opinion, based on my interaction with an abusive alcoholic family member:

I can accept their apology, and accept they regret their past action, but that does not prevent me from using these past experiences to predict future actions on the part of the person apologizing. An apology is no indicator that the apologizer won't do the same thing again in the future.

Now, if the apologizer's future actions do show that they've put the mistakes behind them and won't repeat them, then forgiveness is earned. How long it takes to assess their future actions depends on the severity of the mistake.
posted by AzraelBrown at 12:51 PM on August 6, 2015 [11 favorites]


If your sibling has broken off contact, or if you break off contact in the future, the response is, "It's too late, I've already moved on to a life without you. What you do is your own concern. Please don't contact me again."
posted by alms at 12:56 PM on August 6, 2015 [3 favorites]


Best answer: "This was directed publicly, online, to my sibling."

Yep, that line is all I needed to read. Public criticism/shaming by one's own parent because the adult child abuse survivor is enforcing boundaries? Nope, nope, nope. What this is is actually a continuation of the original pattern of abuse right there. A parent publicly attacking their adult child clearly means this is not really about the parent seeking absolution from the child for their past wrongs, it's about manipulating the adult child by exposing them to the judgment of internet bystanders in order to coerce the adult child into bending to the parent's will, and dropping their current boundaries. So this is really about the parents not being able to face themselves, and being way more concerned that others might see them as a shitty person. This recent post on the Blue is essential reading.

"rather stand in a position of strength with healthy boundaries."

Reach out to your sibling and offer support. Refuse to engage with your parents or any other non-sibling on this.
posted by hush at 1:06 PM on August 6, 2015 [37 favorites]


Best answer: You should definitely read this series of posts about 'estranged parents forums': Down the Rabbit Hole. From this page, "We're not perfect, and neither are they!":
The idea comes up over and over and over again, in wording so similar you'd think they were reading from a script. It's the rare estranged parent who gets through an entire recounting of her backstory without some version of, "I wasn't a perfect mother, but..."

The underlying logic is:

1. The changes you want me to make in how I treat you are unreasonable. You're demanding perfection.
2. You have no right to demand perfection of me unless you yourself are perfect.
3. Therefore, unless you yourself are perfect, you cannot ask me to make any changes.

It's the perfect (ahem) way to bring any discussion to a standstill. The child's concerns are dismissed, the parent is relieved of any need to change, the child is reminded that he or she is at least as imperfect as the parent, and the parent scores a subtle moral victory. No wonder estranged parents roll around in this theme like it's catnip.
posted by showbiz_liz at 1:06 PM on August 6, 2015 [45 favorites]


Best answer: Having faced a similar situation, I can say that something just clicked one day when a therapist told me that I could be loving and caring and generous and still maintain my boundaries. Sort of like what AzreaelBrown says. I guess my script is something like, "I hear you. What you're saying is that this shouldn't bother me anymore and that you feel like you're paying for mistakes that should be buried in the past. I understand that this makes you unhappy. I also wish things weren't this way. But I'm not ready/But [doing/feeling x] won't work for me."

This might be too accommodating for other peoples' taste, especially in abusive situations. But I feel like this allows me to be my best self, to model the kind of behavior I wish [problematic relative] could adopt, and to still say, essentially, "No. Stop." Especially when dealing with relatives who just don't get it and won't get it, this kind of script means that, really, I just repeat what [problematic relative] says back to [problematic relative] - I don't get into much of a back and forth and don't have to be too creative with what I have to say. "I hear you. But that won't work for me" gets me very far. If pressed with "what would work for you, then" I tend to say, "I've thought about this a lot, and I don't think we can come up with a solution that meets both of our needs right now." The latter really never happens, though - if it did, we wouldn't likely be in [problematic relationship] in the first place.
posted by pinkacademic at 1:11 PM on August 6, 2015 [11 favorites]


Best answer: What is a healthy internal response?

"That statement was another piece of evidence that this relationship is about them, the parents, and their need to control its narrative, and is coming from a place of minimizing my/our experience and demanding a particular emotion in return, and this is not how a good faith apology works."

You may never get an authentic, organic, deeply thought out apology from your parents, and while that is painful and not OK, it may also be the fact of the matter. It is true that people (generally speaking) make mistakes. It is true that people (generally speaking) want forgiveness. Neither one of these things is the same as a specific person acknowledging guilt and regret about specific actions. This is an ask without an accompanying self-reflection, a kind of "get-out-of-jail-free" card because hey, we're all adults here, and we know that people screw up, so what's the big deal? But there IS a big, silent, invisible deal here and it belongs to you and your sibling, and your meaningful forgiveness can only count for something when you're ready to give it wholeheartedly, without it being cajoled or emotionally extorted from you.

What is a healthy response to the parent?

"Huh. I'll have to think about that."

I'd like to have something useful to say in support of my sibling if they need it, too.

For official use: "People do make mistakes. And dealing with their fallout takes time." Privately, to sibling: "We know what we know. And you'll know if and when you're ready to forgive."

I wish you both luck. Good for you for being a supportive sibling.
posted by MonkeyToes at 1:13 PM on August 6, 2015 [7 favorites]


Response by poster: Regarding making amends: parent did apologize once years ago, but at the time (I was still young and very angry) I felt it was not enough of an apology. It's too long ago to remember what was actually said. The abuse only stopped once we were old enough to defend ourselves or leave. These days, they take pains to be solicitous to me, but I find their constant contempt for others repulsive. I don't think they've ever been abusive to their grandchildren, but I wouldn't trust them alone with my child.

I don't know what constitutes amends for abuse. What does that look like? I'm afraid my dislike of their behavior in general may make amends pointless.

(On preview, thank you so much for the additional perspectives.)
posted by Eolienne at 1:13 PM on August 6, 2015


Mistakes are human, but that doesn't mean that mistakes are without consequences. If you made the mistake of stealing a little money every day from the same place, were caught, and needed the rest of your life to repay it, that would be in consequence of those actions. They took a little bit of life from you and your sibling every day for years, and they are not paying it back, cannot pay it back. Those actions have consequences too.

Another important detail your parent is glossing over is that and your sibling are ALSO human, not memory-free fairness machines, and if cutting off contact with your parent is a mistake, it is your mistake to make. (Not that I think it's a mistake, but this sounds like your parent is giving a heavy dose of "what I say still goes".)
posted by tchemgrrl at 1:14 PM on August 6, 2015 [9 favorites]


Best answer: To me (someone with 9 years of 12 step experience), the most genuine amends come through changed behavior. An apology is just words. If your parent is still doing stuff like publicly shaming their children on the internet in an effort to wheedle forgiveness through manipulation and guilt - well, I wouldn't call that changed behavior, even if there is no longer physical abuse.
posted by something something at 1:17 PM on August 6, 2015 [12 favorites]


That's just wrong. Child abuse is not a "mistake". It's the intentional act of a bad person. Good people do not harm or neglect their children - instinctive care and protection of children is hardwired into the people who merit the title of "good person." This parent is a bad person and should work on accepting that.
posted by Mallenroh at 1:22 PM on August 6, 2015 [8 favorites]


Ignore parent. Parent is behaving contemptibly and is beneath your notice. Only you and sibling matter. Ask sibling how you can help and do whatever is asked as long as it doesn't involve your getting entangled with/wounded by parent. Do ask first because if you haul off and do what you think is best, you might inadvertently make the situation worse for sibling. If sibling wants to forgive parent, that's fine. If sibling wants to shun parent, that's also fine. Do what you can to comfort and protect the people who are vulnerable--you, your children, your sibling. Parent not in that set. Parent be damned.
posted by Don Pepino at 1:25 PM on August 6, 2015 [3 favorites]


Janis Abrams Spring wrote an excellent book called "How Can I Forgive You" that is an excellent meditation on how to deal with situations like this. She covers "cheap forgiveness," which is just sweeping it all under the rug; not forgiving; acceptance; and genuine forgiveness. Highly recommend.
posted by Sublimity at 1:36 PM on August 6, 2015


Forgiveness means you harbor no ill-will toward that person. It does not mean the forgiver is no longer entitled to self-preservation. One can forgive a person they have no intention of making room for in their life.
posted by cecic at 1:37 PM on August 6, 2015 [3 favorites]


Best answer: I used to work for Charles Hirsch when he was the Chief Medical Examiner of New York City and he was the only person I've ever met who I thought was a great man. Once I made a mistake in middle of a crisis and his response was that it's always OK to make a mistake, what's not OK is making it again. This is not what your parents are doing.

One time, when my daughter was about three, she was lying on the bed and I was sitting next to her and she reared back her leg and kicked me in the thigh as hard as she could. Without thinking I reached out and smacked her leg. Hard. (I won't tell you that at this point, when I was filled with horror and dread at my behavior, she laughed). This was a mistake. And honestly, it's a mistake I made more twice more. This is different from being abusive.

You know, I teach sociology and I got into a debate with one of my students the other day about the confederate flag. This student was saying that it's just a flag and she just writes off people who fly it as rednecks and doesn't think anything about it. She said this after I had told the class that I when I moved back to Virginia I did not move to a rural area where I wanted to live because when we went to look at property there were so many confederate flags flying.

I was thinking on my way home about what kind of person wants to fly a symbol that is hurtful to other people. Taking everything else out of it. Who would do that? To me it sound like your parents would. Some people feel bad and they need other people to feel bad as well.

"Don't be so sensitive" is the catch phrase of the passive aggressive asshole. They chant it at meetings and wear it on their undergarments like Mormons. My response to "I didn't know you were so sensitive" would be "I didn't know you were so mean."

Parents fuck up. I know that. I'm a parent. My daughter is eight. I'm already apologizing. Just other day I said something to her and then later said "I wasn't being the kind of Mommy I want to be and I'm sorry." It sounds like your parents want to be let off the hook without any kind of acknowledgement that they put themselves there. They sound like crybabies to me. And it doesn't sound like they were just shitty parents and now they want that in the past, it sounds like they are still being shitty.

My advice is to call the shit when you see it. This tends to work 10000% better than trying to sit down and have long discussions about cumulative stuff. If they say something mean, say "ouch." When you do big confrontations people tend to flood with adrenaline and when people flood with adrenaline the last thing they are going to do is be vulnerable. And taking responsibility for your shit makes you vulnerable. And this is why, in the history of arguing, no one has every said, "Honey, you know what, you're right. I do that and I'll stop."

And them not getting it doesn't mean there isn't an it there. One of the things I teach in my classes is that people in power often get to define reality. This is why parents and parenting is so important. They don't get to define reality.

Alright. I need to define my reality and realize I need to take a shower and go teach, even though this is more fun.
posted by orsonet at 1:37 PM on August 6, 2015 [23 favorites]


people make mistakes [...] and they shouldn't have to pay for it the rest of their lives

And neither you or your brother should pay for it. You have the right to establish boundaries and protect yourselves.
posted by clearlydemon at 1:40 PM on August 6, 2015 [2 favorites]


I don't have time to read all the response, but my standard line is "Forgiveness is a gift, trust is earned." Forgiveness is about what happened in the past. Trust is about judging how to deal with them in the present and future. These are completely different issues and abusive assholes try to obfuscate that fact all the fucking time.

Abusive people consistently ask that you "forgive and forget" so that they can continue to abuse and not be asked to change. They are asking for a clean slate so their prior offenses don't get used against them. They are basically asking you to be a professional victim. No one in their right mind says "Yeah, sure, I will totally disregard your long track record of behavior in trying to judge your current action."

I have thought long and hard about this. I am not a fan of apologies. Words are cheap. Actions are worth far more. You either make amends or, if that is not possible, as a minimum, you make damn sure you change your behavior and stop the abusive bullshit. You go to pains to make sure to really respect the boundaries of the person you have hurt. If you cannot do that, then leave them the hell alone. Expecting someone YOU hurt to "be nice" to you and forget what you did is just a bullshit abusive position.

And this is not me being bitchy. I was raped by a relative when I was 12 years old. He spent many years both leaving me the hell alone and giving me my space any time I was in town visiting family and ALSO fixing expensive problems of mine that he learned of through the grape vine. I now expect anyone who wants to call themselves a decent human being to meet the standard of the man that raped me and either make amends or leave me the hell alone after wronging me or both. If you can't do that, you are not a decent human being.

He never apologized. He just spent a lot of years trying to do right by me. I eventually really forgave him and I also don't have a high opinion of apologies these days. Most of them are manipulative bullshit. I mean, sometimes they matter and I occasionally apologize when I screw up and I mean it when I do apologize. But I also try hard to back up my apologies by not continuing to step on their toes. No, I am not perfect. I just am a big believer in Actions Speak Louder Than Words.
posted by Michele in California at 1:43 PM on August 6, 2015 [7 favorites]


Reasonable parent mistakes that they owe apologies for are things like "I thought at the time I should keep you in kindergarten a second year because your reading was behind but I see today that that was a wrong decision," or "I should have let you go to prom but I didn't because my own insecurities about giving you freedom clouded my judgment." What happened in your house (I'm guessing) was persistent, intentional abuse over time, not a mistake that any reasonable parent might make with their children.

I don't speak to my parents today because of exactly what you describe. The abuse was just bad people doing bad things to children, and their "get over it, that's the way parents did things back then" rationale is more hurtful than the actual abuse at the time.
posted by archimago at 1:50 PM on August 6, 2015 [4 favorites]


Best answer: Internally, I would think about this as such:

1. Yes, all people make mistakes of some sort, but not all people choose to abuse children. As a society, we've decided that certain types of "mistakes" do, in fact, merit lifelong punishment -- see, for example, crimes that result in life sentences or lifelong registry on a sex offender list. As a general rule, there are certain behaviors that go beyond "Oh, I made a mistake, but I feel bad so it's all okay now!"
2. Whether or not your parent did anything that could be classified as criminal, it is certainly your right as the victim to decide what type of relationship -- if any -- you wish to have in the future. Because there is inherent "right" to a particular sort of relationship with ones' children, denying them that relationship is not a "punishment" that they are "paying for" for the rest of their lives. It's just the natural consequence of being an abusive parent.
posted by rainbowbrite at 1:52 PM on August 6, 2015 [4 favorites]


I think it's only the child who can know what is appropriate and whether the parent should "pay for the rest of their lives". The parent can only be clueless as to what is or is not an appropriate result from this.
posted by Blitz at 1:55 PM on August 6, 2015 [1 favorite]


Best answer: Parent needs to check their shit at the door.
  1. Several acts elicit life-long punishment. Formally, in the justice system.
  2. Many punishments complete without forgiveness from the victim.
  3. Nobody owes anyone (at least no other independent adult) their participation in an ongoing relationship. Cutting someone out of your life is not "punishment"; it's a choice you get to make about your own use of time and energy.

posted by ead at 2:14 PM on August 6, 2015 [5 favorites]


The correct response to this is to ignore it. If they have said it because you have broken off contact, they are specifically saying shit like this to try & get you to break the "no contact" rule.

They are positioning themselves as the victim, possibly to make it easier to try & control you guys, or maybe simply so that if other people find out the parent can play themselves off as the good guy in the scenario.

The correct response from a parent to finding out their child feels this way, would be I am sorry, how can I make it up to you and then they change their behaviour, anything else is mind games. Btw don't fall for the "I'm sorry you feel that way." fake apology either.
posted by wwax at 2:24 PM on August 6, 2015 [2 favorites]


Why force yourself to try to make amends if you don't think the parent gets it, is remorseful, etc. and never will be? Personally, I would cut off contact, block, ignore, filter, etc. and remove them from my life entirely. Why constantly force yourself to try to resolve something that may not have a good resolution? I'd just try to get rid of it. As an adult, you don't really need your parents anymore -- if they are in your life, it's because you want them to be.

But that's just me and this is coming from a person who has not spoken to a parent in like 10 years. My siblings do talk to said parent, but they are very ambivalent about it and their relationship seems to upset them more than it makes them feel better.

As for the public message to the sibling, I question whether the parent will take to heart anything you can say in response. Normal people, remorseful people, changed people, don't publicly announce someone's abuse to the world or publicly pick private fights. I would private just reach out to sibling and let them know that what parent did by posting that message was awful and you're around for support, to talk or listen, if sibling needs it.
posted by AppleTurnover at 2:40 PM on August 6, 2015 [2 favorites]


Best answer: I'm appalled by your parent's grandstanding and attempts to publicly shame your sibling. Clearly, they're not someone who will ever be able to show love and respect to her or you. Their apology means nothing considering that their concern is all about them and not at all for their adult children.

Regarding your sibling: be supportive by listening and offering empathy. The important thing is how your sibling feels -- not what your parent has done or is thinking. Don't tell sibling what to do. Instead, you can talk about whatever you are considering about how/whether to interact with the parent.

Don't engage with the parent about any of it. The parent is likely enjoying the drama and attention, since they chose to publicly blare their opinions about a very private matter. I suggest that you consider not even talking to them about it. You're correct that they will never get it.

For yourself -- put your needs, present and future, first. Try thinking about it in terms of life principles. For me, this helps:
"I am independent from my parent. Their words and actions will have no influence or relevance regarding how I live. I will not expect them to show respect for me in any way. I will look to myself for validation, and to those who do care about me."

Back in the eighties, "inner child" psychologizing was very popular. Even though it became a cliché, it was based on very sound ideas. One of them was basically that each adult can learn to be their own parent; that we need to care for ourselves the way a loving father or mother would. It can be hard to learn to be kind and forgiving towards yourself if you were never treated that way by the most important people in your childhood. It can take a long time, and lots of small steps.

I'm not just saying, "pay no attention to those parents." As you ignore them, you should also think about what you want in life -- what will be fun and fulfilling for you.

Boundaries are hugely important. My husband read two books that he found helpful when he'd decided to set boundaries for interacting with his mother. They are Stop Walking on Eggshells and I Hate You, Don't Leave Me. Both are aimed at adult children of parents with Borderline Personality Disorder, but can relate to any difficult parent. Always remind yourself that the boundaries you set are for you. "If you ________, I will end the conversation or leave." "I will not see you because it's better for me if I don't." You won't get anywhere by telling a parent what to do. You might get some mileage out of, "If you will speak to me as you'd like to be spoken to, I will visit you." BUT that doesn't mean you even have to see or talk to them at all. You owe them no explanation, but if you choose to give one. put it in terms of what YOU want and how YOU feel.
posted by wryly at 3:20 PM on August 6, 2015 [4 favorites]


Your parents got to decide how to behave. You get to decide how you react.
posted by Capri at 4:27 PM on August 6, 2015 [4 favorites]


Best answer: This is exactly what sucky parents do. When you kids were small, they abused you because they chose, over and over, to ignore that you were human being deserving of dignity and respect. They probably had/have elaborate reasons to believe their anger/frustration/desire trumped your pain/fear/suffering. And because kids are basically hard wired to survive by figuring out how to get along with the larger primates who control their food supply (and well as your live and spirit), they were able to maintain their worldview.

Well they are now deciding that their feelings & beliefs trump yours. And they are still maintaining their world view.

I think anger is an appropriate response but if can be a relatively grounded anger. What helps me is stating out loud "I am justifiably angry right now." And sometimes I rant or go for a run. And then I file it under more proof of how messed up things are.

A good outside response could be any number of things. If you want to publicly come out defending your sibling I would say something like "I don't think this discussion is respectful of my and sibling's experiences." Then disengage.
posted by warriorqueen at 4:57 PM on August 6, 2015 [7 favorites]


Best answer: My neglectful and emotionally abusive parent will sometimes try to enlist other people to the "Kids are too sensitive and they are being cold and heartless to me in my old age as a result!" bandwagon. And you know what? She feels what she feels. I am lucky that I have a sibling who shares my feelings about the things we dealt with and if my mom doesn't share those feelings because of her own (incorrect imo) feelings, then that's how it's going to happen. I can't control her. I can, however, block her from making inappropriate comments on my facebook page and I can respond directly to her if she tries that shit with me. Usually with some variant of "That's not how I remember things and your feelings on whether or not I am too sensitive are not relevant here" I reply pretty much in deadpan, I don't start the drama, and I make it very clear I would prefer not to be talking about this. If it goes on past that I just say the same thing again. If she pushes (and she'll push) I just leave. My stock phrase has become "Awww, I thought we were having a nice time" which strongly implies, if not outright says, that she is the one who is ruining it by continuing to be awful.

So to my mind the response to the parent is, only if they are talking to you, some flat version of "I heard you, I disagree" broken record. Don't engage. You're not going to get anywhere with people who are out and out abusive. If they want to make amends, let them if you want to. If they just want to badger and belittle, fuck 'em. Your sibling will have to reach their own decisions. The personal emotional response I have been having lately (and this took DECADES, and therapy) is "Wow, what kind of person would treat a child that way? That is really sad. Poor kid jessamyn." Acknowledge your hurt feelings, to yourself, but don't turn it into a continued unsatisfying relationship with your parent.
posted by jessamyn at 5:22 PM on August 6, 2015 [12 favorites]


Best answer: and they shouldn't have to pay for it the rest of their lives.

Why not? Actions have consequences. If the particular actions of your parents have consequences that last for the rest of their lives, then that's just the way it is. It's not a question of what they deserve or what they're owed. It's just cause and effect. They treated their kids like dirt, and now their kids hate them. That's just the way it is.
posted by sam_harms at 5:32 PM on August 6, 2015 [13 favorites]


people make mistakes; that doesn't make them bad, it makes them human, and they shouldn't have to pay for it the rest of their lives.

That's really just a thought-terminating cliche, something to say so they don't have to think the bad thoughts. Engaging with real dialog would be a mistake; just answer with thought-terminating cliches of your own and move on. I suggest "some mistakes can't be undone."
posted by ctmf at 7:40 PM on August 6, 2015 [2 favorites]


And if you ever get to the point where you have sympathy for them in the "I can see how their own circumstances and the way they were raised led them to behave this way" sense, remember that just because there is a reason behind something it doesn't make the end result ok or mean YOU have to be ok with it. People have given some good examples above of what it looks like when a parent owns a mistake and makes amends. Your parent hasn't done that.
posted by MsMolly at 6:10 AM on August 7, 2015 [1 favorite]


Best answer: they shouldn't have to pay for it the rest of their lives

Bad news, that's not how life works. We pay for most the terrible shit we do, most of our lives.

This is classic post abusive manipulation. My recommendation, reduce contact, you owe them nothing you owe yourself and your children a rich and well developed life. They don't have to be a part of that.

Abuse is a critical failure of parenting, you've lost the game.
posted by French Fry at 7:52 AM on August 7, 2015 [2 favorites]


I had a very difficult relationship with my mother, who, when I was about 21, made amends with me and vastly improved our relationship. Like she sat down and heard a long list of grievances that were real and difficult for her to hear and she apologized sincerely for the affects her behavior had had on my life and on our relationship. After it happened there was a sea change in our relationship because it was as if she heard and really understood. If your mother decides to change and make an effort to repair her wrongdoing, you will know because you will feel it and feel like deaf ears are finally hearing you.

What your mom is doing right now is trying to manipulate you by providing an appealing sounding argument ("everyone makes mistakes!") as to why you should change your feelings and forgive her. She's putting the onus on you t try to angle her into recognizing your feelings, which shouldn't be a fight, and bat away her bullshit. It sounds crazy making.

Your (legitimate) options range from any of the below:
- Ask her to not post on your Facebook in the future or unfriend her. You can choose to provide an explanation or not. Or your explanation can be your emotional well-being.
- Limit or cease contact with her. You can choose to provide an explanation or not.
- Express that you want to have a solid trusting relationship with her, but cannot do this when she is not accepting responsibility and ownership for her past behavior, not recognizing your feelings, and trying to punish you for your emotional responses to her behavior.
- Continue your relationship with her and express what you will and will not accept according to your personal limitations. Stay or go as you feel necessary.

Try to untangle yourself from any dismay or indignation she might feel as a result of you articulating healthy boundaries. It isn't about you or your choices. Ultimately, it's good for her because it's good for people to be held accountable to their actions.
posted by mermily at 7:32 AM on August 10, 2015


Best answer: people make mistakes; that doesn't make them bad, it makes them human, and they shouldn't have to pay for it the rest of their lives.

I've been reflecting on this wording, and I don't see *your sibling* or their feelings acknowledged anywhere. A sincere apology would seek to sit with the pain, and admit its existence and validity. But this? This says just shut up about what happened, why do you have to have feelings about it, stop making me feel bad. So FWIW, I'll add to the chorus of nope, this is not what it says it is, and is instead an attempt to manipulate sibling into making abusive parent feel better. It's more than a matter of wording, too, because this behavior is of a piece with parent's inability to get it. And I totally get that even though this wasn't (primarily) directed at you, you are upset by it. Upset! By an apology! But as it was never meant to make sibling or you feel better, or heard and valued, this seems an utterly understandable response. This "apology" was a gotcha tactic to put sibling on the spot and compel a particular answer. You can roll your eyes on the other side of the screen and think "Nice try, thanks for playing." Which is probably better for your internal state than "This is RANK BULLSHIT." Tough situation, Eolienne; good luck.
posted by MonkeyToes at 11:46 AM on August 10, 2015 [2 favorites]


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