Shoring up a marriage once the kids are a bit bigger
September 24, 2015 3:18 PM
We have two little kids (almost 2 & 5). We love our two little kids. We're finally out of the pregnancy and infant stages, and maybe starting to get a little bit out of everything being in crisis mode all the time. But it's been a hard few years, and although our marriage isn't doing badly it feels like we really need to start working on us again. I'd like to hear from those of you a little further down the line of what you did to rebuild yourselves as a couple once your kids got a tad bigger and you could breathe again.
Like I said, it's been a hard few years. My husband's job and travel schedule exploded mid-second pregnancy and he was not all that functional at home for most of her infancy. This past year, we discovered that one child has special needs and we had a terrifying, prolonged health crisis with the other. It feels like we're starting to come out of the woods a little bit - my husband's gotten the hang of his new job role, travel has decreased a little, we got an after-school nanny who bathes them and feeds them dinner (and can fill in on sick days, which is a godsend). The kids are both doing really well right now with respect to their individual challenges. Although the toddler is exhausting to chase after, it's not quite as grueling as maintaining and breastfeeding an infant.
So it feels like we can breathe a little. FINALLY. But naturally, our relationship has suffered a bit. It's totally expected and reasonable given what we've been through. We've both needed more from each other than the other had to give. I've been resentful of my husband's long work hours and my status as the 'default parent'; he's been resentful when I complain about how hard it is for me when he travels because he's not off having fun. Neither of us gets enough time to ourself, but I think he gets a lot more than I do, and that causes tension. We've gotten in a lot of fights about housework lately because despite the maxim that if you each do 60% of the work, you'll be in good shape, neither of us trusts the other to do their part, we both overestimate how much we're doing, and we underestimate how much the other is contributing. There's just... a lot to do, y'know? (I'm still pretty sure I do more than half, though....) We're tired all the time and often frustrated and because we try hard to be happy and energetic for the kids, we're tapped out by the time they go to bed and we're not, shall we say, not as patient or kind with each other as we might be. We've neglected the little caring gestures that make a relationship thrive.
One additional problem for me is that now that I finally have a chance to get time to myself on occasion, it's never enough. I want an evening out alone to be refreshing, but instead it just reminds me of how locked down the rest of my schedule is and I find myself desperate for more.
Now I'm pretty sure this is all bog-ass normal. I've written 'it-gets-better' posts to mothers of young infants who are convinced they'll never sleep or leave the house again, and I guess I'm looking for a combination of reassurance, practical suggestions, and anecdotes regarding this flavor of it-gets-better. I think the foundation of our marriage is still solid. But there are definitely some renovations that need to be done.
I will say that although MeFi's answer to everything is THERAPY, my husband is not the feelings-talky type (and on top of that English is his second language; he's great at it but struggles with expressing and negotiating things that are already hard to express and negotiate) so if you're going to suggest therapy please explain how it worked for you even though you or your partner was really reluctant and not into the idea.
Thanks, guys!
Like I said, it's been a hard few years. My husband's job and travel schedule exploded mid-second pregnancy and he was not all that functional at home for most of her infancy. This past year, we discovered that one child has special needs and we had a terrifying, prolonged health crisis with the other. It feels like we're starting to come out of the woods a little bit - my husband's gotten the hang of his new job role, travel has decreased a little, we got an after-school nanny who bathes them and feeds them dinner (and can fill in on sick days, which is a godsend). The kids are both doing really well right now with respect to their individual challenges. Although the toddler is exhausting to chase after, it's not quite as grueling as maintaining and breastfeeding an infant.
So it feels like we can breathe a little. FINALLY. But naturally, our relationship has suffered a bit. It's totally expected and reasonable given what we've been through. We've both needed more from each other than the other had to give. I've been resentful of my husband's long work hours and my status as the 'default parent'; he's been resentful when I complain about how hard it is for me when he travels because he's not off having fun. Neither of us gets enough time to ourself, but I think he gets a lot more than I do, and that causes tension. We've gotten in a lot of fights about housework lately because despite the maxim that if you each do 60% of the work, you'll be in good shape, neither of us trusts the other to do their part, we both overestimate how much we're doing, and we underestimate how much the other is contributing. There's just... a lot to do, y'know? (I'm still pretty sure I do more than half, though....) We're tired all the time and often frustrated and because we try hard to be happy and energetic for the kids, we're tapped out by the time they go to bed and we're not, shall we say, not as patient or kind with each other as we might be. We've neglected the little caring gestures that make a relationship thrive.
One additional problem for me is that now that I finally have a chance to get time to myself on occasion, it's never enough. I want an evening out alone to be refreshing, but instead it just reminds me of how locked down the rest of my schedule is and I find myself desperate for more.
Now I'm pretty sure this is all bog-ass normal. I've written 'it-gets-better' posts to mothers of young infants who are convinced they'll never sleep or leave the house again, and I guess I'm looking for a combination of reassurance, practical suggestions, and anecdotes regarding this flavor of it-gets-better. I think the foundation of our marriage is still solid. But there are definitely some renovations that need to be done.
I will say that although MeFi's answer to everything is THERAPY, my husband is not the feelings-talky type (and on top of that English is his second language; he's great at it but struggles with expressing and negotiating things that are already hard to express and negotiate) so if you're going to suggest therapy please explain how it worked for you even though you or your partner was really reluctant and not into the idea.
Thanks, guys!
If you can afford a cleaning service, even only once a month, hire one. So worth it.
posted by dinnerdance at 3:40 PM on September 24, 2015
posted by dinnerdance at 3:40 PM on September 24, 2015
I think making structural changes that prioritize the family would help the most, e.g. your husband looking for a new job involving less travel, and/or getting a live-in nanny or inviting a willing and able grandparent to move in to help, and maybe getting a job for yourself so that you feel you have something of your own going on outside the home (if that's possible, given the caregiving demands you have).
posted by cotton dress sock at 4:08 PM on September 24, 2015
posted by cotton dress sock at 4:08 PM on September 24, 2015
My kids are 4.5 and 2, so I'm sort of where you are. It helps *me* maintain my end of the relationship to prioritize self care a lot. I'm a work-from-home mom, with little outside childcare. My partner works a lot. I'm a morning person, so I get up before everyone else and go running or do yoga, take a shower and get ready for the day alone. (My kids wake up around 7; I get up at 6.) What this means is that in the evenings, after the kids are in bed, even though we only have maybe an hour together, I feel like I can prioritize spending time with my partner. I'm not trying to squeeze in time for me, too.
On weeknights, finding something little to do together can be really helpful. For us, this has been things like listening to a podcast together while we clean the kitchen, or having a TV show that we only watch together, or reading aloud to each other. These things can be pretty short, if needed, but they also give us something to talk about.
We've gotten a lot of mileage out of daytime weekend dates. I find evening dates frustrating -- we have two or three hours, and our younger kid doesn't sleep well without Mama home, so he's often still awake when we come home, which messes with the entire next day. Plus we're always exhausted, even on a Saturday night. We have WAY more fun together when we go out during the day. So we'll drop the kids with the grandparents and go to the bookstore, go bowling, go for a hike, out to brunch. One day we scheduled an entire day and did one of those ropes courses. That was probably the most connected we've felt in the last year or so: we got to play together, way outside our daily environment. It was GREAT.
Otherwise, I just need to keep trusting that if we're kind to each other, keep talking, and stay connected at a basic level, we'll be able to deepen and strengthen that as time goes by and the kids fend for themselves even more.
posted by linettasky at 4:09 PM on September 24, 2015
On weeknights, finding something little to do together can be really helpful. For us, this has been things like listening to a podcast together while we clean the kitchen, or having a TV show that we only watch together, or reading aloud to each other. These things can be pretty short, if needed, but they also give us something to talk about.
We've gotten a lot of mileage out of daytime weekend dates. I find evening dates frustrating -- we have two or three hours, and our younger kid doesn't sleep well without Mama home, so he's often still awake when we come home, which messes with the entire next day. Plus we're always exhausted, even on a Saturday night. We have WAY more fun together when we go out during the day. So we'll drop the kids with the grandparents and go to the bookstore, go bowling, go for a hike, out to brunch. One day we scheduled an entire day and did one of those ropes courses. That was probably the most connected we've felt in the last year or so: we got to play together, way outside our daily environment. It was GREAT.
Otherwise, I just need to keep trusting that if we're kind to each other, keep talking, and stay connected at a basic level, we'll be able to deepen and strengthen that as time goes by and the kids fend for themselves even more.
posted by linettasky at 4:09 PM on September 24, 2015
(Sorry for the long response before, I'm reading into some things you've said that sound similar to other AskMe questions and things I've read about---but if your husband is reluctant to at least talk it through with a professional or put in as much effort as you...in the end, you're going to be carrying the whole show. There are these books where wives are encouraged to treat their husbands like children essentially, instead of partners (fluff up his ego! Make him feel like a man! Compliment him! Let him know you want him sexually!) but it's occurred to me that both partners have to be equally invested in bettering the relationship, and believing in the importance of the relationship. It just sounds like he's left it to you to figure out how to improve things with just an idea of what he won't do, and that seems like so much work on top of all the work you're putting in already!)
posted by discopolo at 4:13 PM on September 24, 2015
posted by discopolo at 4:13 PM on September 24, 2015
(Sorry. Not suggesting anyone's not prioritizing family; obviously your husband's income is doing that - I meant prioritizing time with family, which may well involve financial tradeoffs, which might make access to needed care even harder. Please ignore my previous suggestion, my apologies.)
posted by cotton dress sock at 4:24 PM on September 24, 2015
posted by cotton dress sock at 4:24 PM on September 24, 2015
I recognize a lot in your question, as well as a few things that used to be problems but aren't anymore. Housework: you can remove the scorekeeping and estimating if you make it task-based. Work out the list of what needs doing, on what timetable, and assign to each. Mother's night out: I have found it similarly unfulfilling and a frustrating reminder of how curtailed my free time is. What actually works is giving myself time to do something that is either highly productive, or specific to who I am as a person. Somehow it shores me up much more. I don't know your interests, but something like a drawing class, rock climbing, a trip to a museum to see art and spend as much time as I want with it... those things restore me much better than a glass of wine and talking about work with a pal does. ...These things together make me a happier person who doesn't have to think much about housework, which frees me up to enjoy time with my spouse when we are both available.
posted by xo at 4:27 PM on September 24, 2015
posted by xo at 4:27 PM on September 24, 2015
if you're going to suggest therapy please explain how it worked for you even though you or your partner was really reluctant and not into the idea
I don't have kids, but I can maybe shed some light on this aspect a bit. I've had health issues and started seeing a therapist. I found it important for my husband to got to a session to a) check in on our relationship b) communicate about the stressful things that were happening and c) have my therapist get to know him a bit.
He's kinda anti-therapist for himself, due to some childhood issues, (but was not opposed to me going.) So, if you aren't seeing a therapist yourself, you can at least go and say that you want help in your relationship and it IS something that you can start to do on your own. You can bring home communication tools from therapy to use together. AND/OR you can do a couple sessions with him.
I found it really helpful to get some ideas from the therapist on how to approach my relationship and even would sit him down and say, "Hey, I talked about this today and she suggested we do...." That helped. Then the one session with him actually went amazingly! I felt like we kinda got on the same page, and it was useful for him to meet my therapist too. He also said he was glad that she didn't just take my side - and I said "Of course not, she calls me on my crap." So perhaps you can find a happy medium in therapy in terms of going on your own but maybe getting him into a session every once in awhile.
Overall it really has helped me handle my stress which made my relationship go much smoother because it wasn't all [health stuff]+[work stuff]+[stress]+[why are there dishes in the sink] = [angry relationship]. I could at least start managing my own stress and goals which lead to smoother discussions when we have disagreed on stuff or been annoyed at each other.
And yeah, I do agree with planning some low-key alone time, and low-key together time. Maybe you can trade off like you get to pick the movie one night, and he gets to pick one the next. So then you can get a mix of stuff you each want to do while spending time together (and it avoids arguments about what to watch!)
posted by Crystalinne at 4:34 PM on September 24, 2015
I don't have kids, but I can maybe shed some light on this aspect a bit. I've had health issues and started seeing a therapist. I found it important for my husband to got to a session to a) check in on our relationship b) communicate about the stressful things that were happening and c) have my therapist get to know him a bit.
He's kinda anti-therapist for himself, due to some childhood issues, (but was not opposed to me going.) So, if you aren't seeing a therapist yourself, you can at least go and say that you want help in your relationship and it IS something that you can start to do on your own. You can bring home communication tools from therapy to use together. AND/OR you can do a couple sessions with him.
I found it really helpful to get some ideas from the therapist on how to approach my relationship and even would sit him down and say, "Hey, I talked about this today and she suggested we do...." That helped. Then the one session with him actually went amazingly! I felt like we kinda got on the same page, and it was useful for him to meet my therapist too. He also said he was glad that she didn't just take my side - and I said "Of course not, she calls me on my crap." So perhaps you can find a happy medium in therapy in terms of going on your own but maybe getting him into a session every once in awhile.
Overall it really has helped me handle my stress which made my relationship go much smoother because it wasn't all [health stuff]+[work stuff]+[stress]+[why are there dishes in the sink] = [angry relationship]. I could at least start managing my own stress and goals which lead to smoother discussions when we have disagreed on stuff or been annoyed at each other.
And yeah, I do agree with planning some low-key alone time, and low-key together time. Maybe you can trade off like you get to pick the movie one night, and he gets to pick one the next. So then you can get a mix of stuff you each want to do while spending time together (and it avoids arguments about what to watch!)
posted by Crystalinne at 4:34 PM on September 24, 2015
You have a really great perspective on all of this.
I agree that doing some low-stress things as a couple -- takeout and a glass of wine after the kids go to bed, date nights when you can, just hugging each other more and making an effort to be extra nice to each other -- would probably go a long way.
It seems like the thing you're most craving is alone time. Is there any way you could get more childcare, like an occasional babysitter, daycare, family member who regularly watches the kids, neighbor kid / mother's helper, extra hours from your nanny, whatever? Or, do you have a gym nearby that offers childcare? If you could schedule a few times a week of time to yourself, and make it part of your regular schedule and not a once in a blue moon special occasion, it might alleviate some of that exhaustion.
You said you had an after-school nanny, which makes me think you're working outside the home -- is there any way you could use your lunch break or commute to do something restorative, like meditate (not while driving) or listening to your favorite music or podcast? If you're not working, could you have some time to yourself while the nanny is there?
I think you should focus on having a more loving relationship right now and try to accept the amount of chores you do. Once you feel like you're on track, then you can sit down and talk about all the things you each do and see if you can come up with a plan that feels fair to both of you.
The single best thing that helped us overcome resentment and get back on the same team was that we switched places. I was on maternity leave while he was the breadwinner, then he was home for a few months while I was the breadwinner. That experience really made us appreciate each other and see all the hidden work that we each did. It doesn't sound like that's possible for you, but maybe you could find some other way to feel more empathy with each other.
posted by chickenmagazine at 5:50 PM on September 24, 2015
I agree that doing some low-stress things as a couple -- takeout and a glass of wine after the kids go to bed, date nights when you can, just hugging each other more and making an effort to be extra nice to each other -- would probably go a long way.
It seems like the thing you're most craving is alone time. Is there any way you could get more childcare, like an occasional babysitter, daycare, family member who regularly watches the kids, neighbor kid / mother's helper, extra hours from your nanny, whatever? Or, do you have a gym nearby that offers childcare? If you could schedule a few times a week of time to yourself, and make it part of your regular schedule and not a once in a blue moon special occasion, it might alleviate some of that exhaustion.
You said you had an after-school nanny, which makes me think you're working outside the home -- is there any way you could use your lunch break or commute to do something restorative, like meditate (not while driving) or listening to your favorite music or podcast? If you're not working, could you have some time to yourself while the nanny is there?
I think you should focus on having a more loving relationship right now and try to accept the amount of chores you do. Once you feel like you're on track, then you can sit down and talk about all the things you each do and see if you can come up with a plan that feels fair to both of you.
The single best thing that helped us overcome resentment and get back on the same team was that we switched places. I was on maternity leave while he was the breadwinner, then he was home for a few months while I was the breadwinner. That experience really made us appreciate each other and see all the hidden work that we each did. It doesn't sound like that's possible for you, but maybe you could find some other way to feel more empathy with each other.
posted by chickenmagazine at 5:50 PM on September 24, 2015
To clarify a few points:
- I work full-time, which is simultaneously great and terrible for my mental health. I work in a highly specialized research job, and though it can be frustrating at times, it's absolutely a net plus.
- The after-school nanny stays til 7 every day, which is when the younger child goes to bed. So I have extra hands when my husband's late or traveling. She also does the laundry. For $reasons, having her pick my son up earlier and feed him earlier has improved his behavior to an astounding degree. This has been life altering and is what has given me the mental space to want to be a better partner to my husband. There was a long time where I was so overwhelmed with keeping myself and the kids alive (and figuring out what the hell was wrong with first one and then the other) that I just couldn't care about my husband. I genuinely want to come back from that.
- In the past year, my husband has made a real, quantifiable effort to be more present, more involved, and do more. I still do the bulk of the emotional labor - and yes, this question is me shouldering more of it - but I've started pointing it out to him and he's started listening and making a visible effort. We were raised differently - I come from a 2-working-parent household where everyone had to pull their own weight, and he's an only child of a stay at home mom and was never expected to do house stuff as a kid. So, it's less that he feels he doesn't need to help and more that there's a lot of hidden work he just doesn't see. But I presume he's telling the truth that there are things in his life I don't see either. I appreciate the effort he's making and this is also part of why I want to give him less cold shoulder.
- I feel like things will improve further once the toddler gets past leaving a trail of chaos wherever she goes. It's completely useless to try and pick up while she's awake - she can pull stuff out faster than you can put it away. We're teaching her to 'help' us, but her help currently creates far more work than it saves. We're seeing glimpses of dividends with the preschooler, though.
I love my kids. Now we've put some structural supports in place and I want to get back to really loving my husband. Thanks for the comments thus far - I enjoy reading others' stories of how they navigate these challenges. It helps me feel less alone.
posted by telepanda at 7:54 PM on September 24, 2015
- I work full-time, which is simultaneously great and terrible for my mental health. I work in a highly specialized research job, and though it can be frustrating at times, it's absolutely a net plus.
- The after-school nanny stays til 7 every day, which is when the younger child goes to bed. So I have extra hands when my husband's late or traveling. She also does the laundry. For $reasons, having her pick my son up earlier and feed him earlier has improved his behavior to an astounding degree. This has been life altering and is what has given me the mental space to want to be a better partner to my husband. There was a long time where I was so overwhelmed with keeping myself and the kids alive (and figuring out what the hell was wrong with first one and then the other) that I just couldn't care about my husband. I genuinely want to come back from that.
- In the past year, my husband has made a real, quantifiable effort to be more present, more involved, and do more. I still do the bulk of the emotional labor - and yes, this question is me shouldering more of it - but I've started pointing it out to him and he's started listening and making a visible effort. We were raised differently - I come from a 2-working-parent household where everyone had to pull their own weight, and he's an only child of a stay at home mom and was never expected to do house stuff as a kid. So, it's less that he feels he doesn't need to help and more that there's a lot of hidden work he just doesn't see. But I presume he's telling the truth that there are things in his life I don't see either. I appreciate the effort he's making and this is also part of why I want to give him less cold shoulder.
- I feel like things will improve further once the toddler gets past leaving a trail of chaos wherever she goes. It's completely useless to try and pick up while she's awake - she can pull stuff out faster than you can put it away. We're teaching her to 'help' us, but her help currently creates far more work than it saves. We're seeing glimpses of dividends with the preschooler, though.
I love my kids. Now we've put some structural supports in place and I want to get back to really loving my husband. Thanks for the comments thus far - I enjoy reading others' stories of how they navigate these challenges. It helps me feel less alone.
posted by telepanda at 7:54 PM on September 24, 2015
What really helped me (and my relationship) was to take up an evening class once a week. Now my husband knows that Tuesdays are my nights and if he has to work late or wants to do something too, he needs to arrange a babysitter.
This also has the bonus that he has gotten used to running evenings himself.
Perhaps Saturday evening could be your night off if he travels a lot during the week?
(The flip side is that my husband gets nights for his hobbies too and we try to have a few nights a week where we chat and generally spend time together. The house is often a mess.)
posted by brambory at 11:27 PM on September 24, 2015
This also has the bonus that he has gotten used to running evenings himself.
Perhaps Saturday evening could be your night off if he travels a lot during the week?
(The flip side is that my husband gets nights for his hobbies too and we try to have a few nights a week where we chat and generally spend time together. The house is often a mess.)
posted by brambory at 11:27 PM on September 24, 2015
My son will be seven in a few weeks, so I can still vividily remember when he was 5 or even when he was 2, and how difficult that was. I only have one child to look after, and no major medical issues, but I can still really empathize with several of your points.
I just wanted to tell you, yes as the child gets older, things change and for me at least, improve.
We have some of the same issues - who does more around the house is a big one, since I am back to full time work. He spends his time in hotels, and also, he grew up with a housekeeper. So his general idea of housekeeping still is that it just sort of "happens". And yes, who gets more time alone, and just the general tiredness and lack energy to invest into the relationship. He travels a lot, and does not see the day to day struggles as much. And yes an evening off never seems enough.
So how has it practically changed as my son is getting older?
My biggest problem these last 6 months was to comprehend that we are actually at a point now where it is me who needs to back off/let go as a mom. My son now does not need me anymore all the time, and since our son is older my husband finds it so much easier share in the care for him (brush teeth with him etc). They actually do stuff together now without me instigating it, etc.
When my son was 4 and 5 I was at a real low point and constantly felt that all my energy is required to keep myself and him above the water, dressed, fed and somewhat sane, and no time to myself and I was constantly drained and just fed up. Now, almost two years on I am in the process of learning how to pull back and let go which is an interesting challenge.
Re the relationsship with husband, this means that I am trying to refocus myself on my husband as my partner, not just father of my child and switch off "survivor mode" and boy, it is hard.
What is helping me so much here is seeing a therapist on my own and for my own needs. My husband is not interested at all in couples therapy. He actually just barely tolerates me going. He sees it as a waste of (my) money and time. Also, he is not someone who particularly enjoys talking about his or my emotions, so I need someone to to do that with and preferably not a friend.
Seeing a therapist for myself has had strong and direct impact on the qualitiy of our relationsship - because through my therapist I can see some of my own behaviour patterns so much better. Yet, it is hard to explain how exactly therapy helps me - it is more to do with learning and understanding how I communicate and what I say and what I keep to myself (but actually should say). How to get out of mommy survivor mode.
Our relationship has definitely benefitted and become more tender again, through me going to therapy for me.
Anyway, I hope I can give you some encouragement that things will improve , I always read you posts and you come across as a strong and committed person.
posted by 15L06 at 4:41 AM on September 25, 2015
I just wanted to tell you, yes as the child gets older, things change and for me at least, improve.
We have some of the same issues - who does more around the house is a big one, since I am back to full time work. He spends his time in hotels, and also, he grew up with a housekeeper. So his general idea of housekeeping still is that it just sort of "happens". And yes, who gets more time alone, and just the general tiredness and lack energy to invest into the relationship. He travels a lot, and does not see the day to day struggles as much. And yes an evening off never seems enough.
So how has it practically changed as my son is getting older?
My biggest problem these last 6 months was to comprehend that we are actually at a point now where it is me who needs to back off/let go as a mom. My son now does not need me anymore all the time, and since our son is older my husband finds it so much easier share in the care for him (brush teeth with him etc). They actually do stuff together now without me instigating it, etc.
When my son was 4 and 5 I was at a real low point and constantly felt that all my energy is required to keep myself and him above the water, dressed, fed and somewhat sane, and no time to myself and I was constantly drained and just fed up. Now, almost two years on I am in the process of learning how to pull back and let go which is an interesting challenge.
Re the relationsship with husband, this means that I am trying to refocus myself on my husband as my partner, not just father of my child and switch off "survivor mode" and boy, it is hard.
What is helping me so much here is seeing a therapist on my own and for my own needs. My husband is not interested at all in couples therapy. He actually just barely tolerates me going. He sees it as a waste of (my) money and time. Also, he is not someone who particularly enjoys talking about his or my emotions, so I need someone to to do that with and preferably not a friend.
Seeing a therapist for myself has had strong and direct impact on the qualitiy of our relationsship - because through my therapist I can see some of my own behaviour patterns so much better. Yet, it is hard to explain how exactly therapy helps me - it is more to do with learning and understanding how I communicate and what I say and what I keep to myself (but actually should say). How to get out of mommy survivor mode.
Our relationship has definitely benefitted and become more tender again, through me going to therapy for me.
Anyway, I hope I can give you some encouragement that things will improve , I always read you posts and you come across as a strong and committed person.
posted by 15L06 at 4:41 AM on September 25, 2015
Exercise together. Not only does it reduce stress, but completing a difficult work-out together creates a sense of being part of a team. Getting comfortable with being physical with one another is also helpful in, ahem, other arenas. I know this seems like simplistic advice compared to all of the above but in my experience it is basically a truism that couples who work out together, stay together.
posted by BuddhaInABucket at 6:06 AM on September 25, 2015
posted by BuddhaInABucket at 6:06 AM on September 25, 2015
I got a job where I stopped traveling. I'd probably be divorced by now or really unhappy if I hadn't.
It pays less and isn't as important sounding as my old job. But it turns out being happy and feeling good and enjoying my family and having sex with my wife are all more fulfilling than being a "VP" instead of a "Director"
Work travel is war on family.
posted by French Fry at 7:04 AM on September 25, 2015
It pays less and isn't as important sounding as my old job. But it turns out being happy and feeling good and enjoying my family and having sex with my wife are all more fulfilling than being a "VP" instead of a "Director"
Work travel is war on family.
posted by French Fry at 7:04 AM on September 25, 2015
Our Saturday morning nanny was a great marriage investment for us when we were kind of where you are. You didn't mention mornings, but we had been in a phase where our toddler would wake up at 6 and start needing our attention every weekend morning, and so I had this nanny work from 6-9 am on Saturdays. It let my husband and me have that time together in bed or out, just the two of us together for three hours every weekend, and by the time the nanny left the kid had already been to the park and had a bath and we were all refreshed to start the weekend as a family.
Also cleaning service is absolutely key.
posted by fingersandtoes at 7:42 AM on September 25, 2015
Also cleaning service is absolutely key.
posted by fingersandtoes at 7:42 AM on September 25, 2015
We've gotten in a lot of fights about housework lately because despite the maxim that if you each do 60% of the work, you'll be in good shape, neither of us trusts the other to do their part, we both overestimate how much we're doing, and we underestimate how much the other is contributing.
Sounds basic, but we had a moment when we just hashed out who hates doing what and traded chores until we each had what we kinda liked to manage. I hate, hate, putting away dishes. I have no problem washing them. Ta-dah, a magic agreement about who gets which role is born.
Also this:
I've been resentful of my husband's long work hours and my status as the 'default parent'; he's been resentful when I complain about how hard it is for me when he travels because he's not off having fun.
Coupled with these:
Neither of us gets enough time to ourself, but I think he gets a lot more than I do...
(I'm still pretty sure I do more than half, though....)
are doing you no favors. Drop them, please. My partner and I have three kids and both travel extensively, constantly, for work. He travels more frequently, and routinely, and to more cities than I do, but his travel is mostly to the same six US cities. I travel irregularly, and usually with limited advance notice, but my destinations tend to be more international and include government cities with a lot of culture. The net result is that I resent his perceived "time off" in cities where he gets to become familiar and comfortable in a routine and predictable way, and he resents my perceived "time off" in exotic locations. Neither of these are accurate readings of the work travel experience in the slightest, and we know it because we both do it for a living. There's something in the brain that seems keen to insist that cohabitating folks are unfairly balanced, and stress makes this part of the brain angrier and more irrational than usual.
Fortunately our kids are older now--all teens--and their increasing self-sufficiency has gradually let us find the time and space to be critical about all of these feelings and tensions. It's good to talk about what you perceive as sleights, even unintentional ones, because the ones you retain quietly and privately can gnaw at you and grow quietly. Maybe if you talk to your partner about those perceived imbalances, you can address them better together. Maybe he'll pick up some additional duties around the house, maybe you'll listen to the hour-by-hour schedule of his travel days, and in the end recognize that you're both giving more than either understands.
Welcome out of the baby years! It gets better, and you know it!
posted by late afternoon dreaming hotel at 8:29 AM on September 25, 2015
Sounds basic, but we had a moment when we just hashed out who hates doing what and traded chores until we each had what we kinda liked to manage. I hate, hate, putting away dishes. I have no problem washing them. Ta-dah, a magic agreement about who gets which role is born.
Also this:
I've been resentful of my husband's long work hours and my status as the 'default parent'; he's been resentful when I complain about how hard it is for me when he travels because he's not off having fun.
Coupled with these:
Neither of us gets enough time to ourself, but I think he gets a lot more than I do...
(I'm still pretty sure I do more than half, though....)
are doing you no favors. Drop them, please. My partner and I have three kids and both travel extensively, constantly, for work. He travels more frequently, and routinely, and to more cities than I do, but his travel is mostly to the same six US cities. I travel irregularly, and usually with limited advance notice, but my destinations tend to be more international and include government cities with a lot of culture. The net result is that I resent his perceived "time off" in cities where he gets to become familiar and comfortable in a routine and predictable way, and he resents my perceived "time off" in exotic locations. Neither of these are accurate readings of the work travel experience in the slightest, and we know it because we both do it for a living. There's something in the brain that seems keen to insist that cohabitating folks are unfairly balanced, and stress makes this part of the brain angrier and more irrational than usual.
Fortunately our kids are older now--all teens--and their increasing self-sufficiency has gradually let us find the time and space to be critical about all of these feelings and tensions. It's good to talk about what you perceive as sleights, even unintentional ones, because the ones you retain quietly and privately can gnaw at you and grow quietly. Maybe if you talk to your partner about those perceived imbalances, you can address them better together. Maybe he'll pick up some additional duties around the house, maybe you'll listen to the hour-by-hour schedule of his travel days, and in the end recognize that you're both giving more than either understands.
Welcome out of the baby years! It gets better, and you know it!
posted by late afternoon dreaming hotel at 8:29 AM on September 25, 2015
I only have the one kid, and she's the same age as your youngest, but we've had a similarly stressful past couple years (though different stressors) and I could have written your question.
My husband and I have been talking about this very issue a lot lately as we're slowly (sloooowly) starting to get our bearings back. Like you, we both feel that our foundation is good but we've definitely slacked off all the little niceties we do for each other that used to come so easily pre-baby. It feels like it takes much more conscious effort now. One of John and Julie Gottman's strongest indicators of marital happiness is couples who do nice things for each other vs. those that don't. They've found a direct correlation between lack of divorce and doing 50-100 nice things for your partner per day (has to go both ways). Fifty sounds like a lot, but really, anything counts, and it's not as hard as it sounds to get to 50 - holding the door open when your partner is coming through with their hands full, touching their arm or hand while watching TV, asking if they want more water as long as you're getting up, buying their favorite snack when you go grocery shopping, taking the hair out of the shower drain after you get out because you know they hate that, etc. So, we've been working on upping that number, and trying to communicate the little things the other could easily be doing but isn't, or that they used to but now don't for whatever reason. For example, my husband leaves for work first and used to kiss me goodbye while I was still in bed, but stopped doing that because he said he didn't want to wake me. He was trying to be kind by NOT doing that. Well, he evidently didn't realize it but I'm always awake anyway, and watching him walk out without saying anything felt like shit, so I told him that, and now he does. I used to give him backrubs at bedtime but stopped doing that because, well, exhausted, but have made an effort to step it up even if it's just for a few minutes and he drifts off noticeably more contentedly.
Couple other things that have been varying degrees of helpful:
- Monthly (or so) overnights for the kiddo at Grandma's. Whenever I started to feel overly exasperated with my life or relationship, I look and the calendar and indeed, exactly a month has gone by since our last baby-free overnight and I know it's time to get the ball rolling on scheduling another one. We get a whole weekend day and night together and try to do something non-routine/errand-y with that time - mini-golf, a scenic drive, walking around a giant sculpture garden, kayaking. They're not all like that, but the times we've been outdoors + active on our dates have been most invigorating/memorable/connected days in recent memory.
- Finding the right setting in our home for "us time." In our house, that tends to be sitting out in the garden or on the porch and drinking a bottle of wine or a couple of beers together. Something about the ambiance of the yard or the porch is like relationship magic for us. Cooking a nice meal together after the kiddo is in bed also feels special since it's not a daily thing. I most definitely do NOT get and give the same warm fuzzies from sitting on the couch with takeout watching Netflix, to me that's boringly depressing daily life, not a date. YMMV.
- The Saturday morning nanny is a fucking brilliant idea. Or, instead of taking your me time as an evening out, could your partner or a babysitter take the kids out on a weekend morning until lunchtime or so? I too have learned that weeknights out aren't all that awesome in the moment as you think they will be - I had two this week (which never happens, just happened to line up that way) and I was exhausted from work and didn't enjoy myself as much as I thought I would and then on top of it I get to come home to a house that looks like a bomb went off. But on Saturday mornings when my husband takes our daughter on an outing and I get the place to myself, I am rested and feel noticeably happier, and am so much more likely to do something personally enriching with that time. Sometimes I even exercise with that time!
- Prioritizing personal care and anything that frees up mental headspace, for both of us. My husband finally figured out and implemented a regular exercise routine and gets massages every couple months, and he comes home acting like a new man when he's had either of those things. I gave up caffeine because it was making me overly anxious and reactive, and started practicing meditation. We just hired a house cleaner who comes twice a month - don't get me wrong, there's still plenty of shit to do even with her help, but I'm less wound up about it all.
Good luck! It sounds like you're both aware of the situation and the other's POV, which is a huge step in the right direction.
posted by anderjen at 10:56 AM on September 25, 2015
My husband and I have been talking about this very issue a lot lately as we're slowly (sloooowly) starting to get our bearings back. Like you, we both feel that our foundation is good but we've definitely slacked off all the little niceties we do for each other that used to come so easily pre-baby. It feels like it takes much more conscious effort now. One of John and Julie Gottman's strongest indicators of marital happiness is couples who do nice things for each other vs. those that don't. They've found a direct correlation between lack of divorce and doing 50-100 nice things for your partner per day (has to go both ways). Fifty sounds like a lot, but really, anything counts, and it's not as hard as it sounds to get to 50 - holding the door open when your partner is coming through with their hands full, touching their arm or hand while watching TV, asking if they want more water as long as you're getting up, buying their favorite snack when you go grocery shopping, taking the hair out of the shower drain after you get out because you know they hate that, etc. So, we've been working on upping that number, and trying to communicate the little things the other could easily be doing but isn't, or that they used to but now don't for whatever reason. For example, my husband leaves for work first and used to kiss me goodbye while I was still in bed, but stopped doing that because he said he didn't want to wake me. He was trying to be kind by NOT doing that. Well, he evidently didn't realize it but I'm always awake anyway, and watching him walk out without saying anything felt like shit, so I told him that, and now he does. I used to give him backrubs at bedtime but stopped doing that because, well, exhausted, but have made an effort to step it up even if it's just for a few minutes and he drifts off noticeably more contentedly.
Couple other things that have been varying degrees of helpful:
- Monthly (or so) overnights for the kiddo at Grandma's. Whenever I started to feel overly exasperated with my life or relationship, I look and the calendar and indeed, exactly a month has gone by since our last baby-free overnight and I know it's time to get the ball rolling on scheduling another one. We get a whole weekend day and night together and try to do something non-routine/errand-y with that time - mini-golf, a scenic drive, walking around a giant sculpture garden, kayaking. They're not all like that, but the times we've been outdoors + active on our dates have been most invigorating/memorable/connected days in recent memory.
- Finding the right setting in our home for "us time." In our house, that tends to be sitting out in the garden or on the porch and drinking a bottle of wine or a couple of beers together. Something about the ambiance of the yard or the porch is like relationship magic for us. Cooking a nice meal together after the kiddo is in bed also feels special since it's not a daily thing. I most definitely do NOT get and give the same warm fuzzies from sitting on the couch with takeout watching Netflix, to me that's boringly depressing daily life, not a date. YMMV.
- The Saturday morning nanny is a fucking brilliant idea. Or, instead of taking your me time as an evening out, could your partner or a babysitter take the kids out on a weekend morning until lunchtime or so? I too have learned that weeknights out aren't all that awesome in the moment as you think they will be - I had two this week (which never happens, just happened to line up that way) and I was exhausted from work and didn't enjoy myself as much as I thought I would and then on top of it I get to come home to a house that looks like a bomb went off. But on Saturday mornings when my husband takes our daughter on an outing and I get the place to myself, I am rested and feel noticeably happier, and am so much more likely to do something personally enriching with that time. Sometimes I even exercise with that time!
- Prioritizing personal care and anything that frees up mental headspace, for both of us. My husband finally figured out and implemented a regular exercise routine and gets massages every couple months, and he comes home acting like a new man when he's had either of those things. I gave up caffeine because it was making me overly anxious and reactive, and started practicing meditation. We just hired a house cleaner who comes twice a month - don't get me wrong, there's still plenty of shit to do even with her help, but I'm less wound up about it all.
Good luck! It sounds like you're both aware of the situation and the other's POV, which is a huge step in the right direction.
posted by anderjen at 10:56 AM on September 25, 2015
My kid just turned two so I feel ya.
What we are trying to do: hug more and watch something low key but equally interesting that we both have opinions on, like House Hunters. (Probably stuff like cooking shows or Ninja Warrior would work just as well.) It gives us even ground to reconnect and the hugs are an undemanding way to get some quick physical affection in.
Baby steps for us.
posted by jillithd at 5:55 AM on September 26, 2015
What we are trying to do: hug more and watch something low key but equally interesting that we both have opinions on, like House Hunters. (Probably stuff like cooking shows or Ninja Warrior would work just as well.) It gives us even ground to reconnect and the hugs are an undemanding way to get some quick physical affection in.
Baby steps for us.
posted by jillithd at 5:55 AM on September 26, 2015
Oh, and also saying "thank you" for what the other person does around the house. Acknowledging the things they do around the house makes them feel, well, acknowledged that their efforts were made. This really seems to go a long way in helping the "well, I've done more stuff than you" feeling.
posted by jillithd at 6:40 AM on September 26, 2015
posted by jillithd at 6:40 AM on September 26, 2015
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So now on Saturday nights we pit the kids to bed, order takeout or make appetizers, and watch streaming media together + get naked together.
posted by warriorqueen at 3:27 PM on September 24, 2015