Laptop for life
August 15, 2015 4:37 PM Subscribe
Another should-I-buy-a-new-machine question, plus: what laptop would you buy if the main consideration was how long it would last?
I'm using a Macbook Pro 3,1 from 2007 (original 2GB RAM) with OS X 10.6.8. The DVD drive has failed and keeping it plugged into AC power all the time has killed the battery, but I'm ok with all that. The fan rattles like a diesel engine. My usage profile is mostly just surfing the web, honestly - this is not my work machine. Sometimes videos, but I'm not really a movie or TV watcher. What bothers me is that lately I can't even browse with Firefox without excessive hanging.
Would upgrading the RAM to 4GB make a significant enough difference to restore performance to acceptable levels? Consider that I'd prefer to upgrade to the latest OS X but I'm afraid this machine can't handle it.
OR, would it be better to just give in and buy a new machine? If so, what would I be looking for to maximize the number of years I get out of the new one for a reasonable cost? Let's assume I know how computers work but have not kept up with the latest terminology or hardware since the 90s.
I'm using a Macbook Pro 3,1 from 2007 (original 2GB RAM) with OS X 10.6.8. The DVD drive has failed and keeping it plugged into AC power all the time has killed the battery, but I'm ok with all that. The fan rattles like a diesel engine. My usage profile is mostly just surfing the web, honestly - this is not my work machine. Sometimes videos, but I'm not really a movie or TV watcher. What bothers me is that lately I can't even browse with Firefox without excessive hanging.
Would upgrading the RAM to 4GB make a significant enough difference to restore performance to acceptable levels? Consider that I'd prefer to upgrade to the latest OS X but I'm afraid this machine can't handle it.
OR, would it be better to just give in and buy a new machine? If so, what would I be looking for to maximize the number of years I get out of the new one for a reasonable cost? Let's assume I know how computers work but have not kept up with the latest terminology or hardware since the 90s.
Best answer: Assuming you want a laptop that will last a long time because you want to save money, I would recommend changing your approach and buying a very cheap laptop. Web technology is evolving so rapidly that no matter how durable the machine, the ability to rapidly browse the modern internet will be lost long before the machine physically breaks down. Something like a Chromebook will last physically about as long as a Macbook and significantly reduce the financial burden of upgrading in 2-3 years.
posted by telegraph at 5:06 PM on August 15, 2015 [6 favorites]
posted by telegraph at 5:06 PM on August 15, 2015 [6 favorites]
I am at the moment writing on a mid-2007 iMac (7,1) running OS X 10.10 with a slightly slower processor than your MacBook. I've upgraded the ram to 4GB and, more significantly, swapped out the hard drive for an SSD -- I'm pretty sure that with a hard drive this machine would be intolerable, but with an SSD I have absolutely no complaints about speed. given that SSDs are both relatively cheap and easy to install, it'd likely be worth considering as a way to extend the usable life of your laptop.
posted by spindle at 5:20 PM on August 15, 2015 [4 favorites]
posted by spindle at 5:20 PM on August 15, 2015 [4 favorites]
Having upgraded my wife’s Macbook (it was a 2010, non-pro mode), RAM and SSD, a couple of years ago — the extra RAM definitely helped, but the SSD was a night and day improvement. She went from endless spinning beachball hell to pleasantly useable, even running the latest version of OSX. Doing both ups the ante, of course.
posted by Quinbus Flestrin at 5:35 PM on August 15, 2015 [2 favorites]
posted by Quinbus Flestrin at 5:35 PM on August 15, 2015 [2 favorites]
Amazon has the Samsung 850 EVO 250GB for $90 now. A great deal and will make a huge difference in performance.
posted by LoveHam at 5:38 PM on August 15, 2015 [2 favorites]
posted by LoveHam at 5:38 PM on August 15, 2015 [2 favorites]
I also have a 2007 MacBook that probably won't last much longer, but is still doing okay. When it finally goes, my plan is to buy a new Macbook and expect that it will last 8+ years as well.
posted by hydropsyche at 5:41 PM on August 15, 2015
posted by hydropsyche at 5:41 PM on August 15, 2015
Web technology is evolving so rapidly that no matter how durable the machine, the ability to rapidly browse the modern internet will be lost long before the machine physically breaks down.
I actually disagree with this. It used to be that I'd buy a new computer every 2 years or so, to get the massive leaps in performance and keep up with the requirements of modern software. In the last 5 years, the improvements in hardware and the demands of software (at least the stuff I use, but that includes most of Adobe Creative Suite) have both seemed to plateau. I recently replaced my 2010 MacBook Pro only because it broke. It was performing more than acceptably until then. The 2015 MacBook Pro is better but not that much better. I notice it for stuff like Photoshop and compiling software, but not for web browsing. If my previous machine hadn't broken, the new one definitely would not have been worth the investment for the modest improvements.
I don't think that someone who mostly browses the web is going to have to upgrade a 2015 computer for performance reasons any time soon...
posted by primethyme at 5:52 PM on August 15, 2015 [10 favorites]
I actually disagree with this. It used to be that I'd buy a new computer every 2 years or so, to get the massive leaps in performance and keep up with the requirements of modern software. In the last 5 years, the improvements in hardware and the demands of software (at least the stuff I use, but that includes most of Adobe Creative Suite) have both seemed to plateau. I recently replaced my 2010 MacBook Pro only because it broke. It was performing more than acceptably until then. The 2015 MacBook Pro is better but not that much better. I notice it for stuff like Photoshop and compiling software, but not for web browsing. If my previous machine hadn't broken, the new one definitely would not have been worth the investment for the modest improvements.
I don't think that someone who mostly browses the web is going to have to upgrade a 2015 computer for performance reasons any time soon...
posted by primethyme at 5:52 PM on August 15, 2015 [10 favorites]
If you want longevity and durability Thinkpads are a good choice. Built like bricks and easy to get inside to repair and replace parts. They're not Macs, though.
posted by Anonymous at 7:33 PM on August 15, 2015
posted by Anonymous at 7:33 PM on August 15, 2015
Best answer: I was pleasantly surprised when I went laptop shopping recently how cheap a decent laptop can be. I got a Toshiba, 6MB RAM, 500GB hard drive, all the standard stuff (USB ports including 3.0, webcam, mic, internal wireless card, etc.) for $249. So far I am quite pleased with it, and at that price point, if it only lasts 2 years I will be OK with that. Considering new Mac laptops are over a grand, I can replace the Toshiba 4-6 times over for the price of one Mac.
posted by rabbitrabbit at 7:58 PM on August 15, 2015 [2 favorites]
posted by rabbitrabbit at 7:58 PM on August 15, 2015 [2 favorites]
Web technology is evolving so rapidly that no matter how durable the machine, the ability to rapidly browse the modern internet will be lost long before the machine physically breaks down.
I also don't think this is the case--if anything, the deprecation of NPAPI plugins (soon to be gone from Google Chrome) and the move toward responsive sites intended to work on both computers and relatively less powerful mobile devices make the future internet seem way less demanding than it did a few years ago.
posted by pullayup at 8:12 PM on August 15, 2015 [3 favorites]
I also don't think this is the case--if anything, the deprecation of NPAPI plugins (soon to be gone from Google Chrome) and the move toward responsive sites intended to work on both computers and relatively less powerful mobile devices make the future internet seem way less demanding than it did a few years ago.
posted by pullayup at 8:12 PM on August 15, 2015 [3 favorites]
I have a 2009 MacBook and a 2014 Air, and the both do well. I think one thing about apple hardware is the well chosen screen and keyboard elements. You could upgrade the RAM, replace the hard drive with an SSD, and get a new battery, these are all replaceable components. With latter models everything is welded shut.
posted by nickggully at 8:55 PM on August 15, 2015
posted by nickggully at 8:55 PM on August 15, 2015
In the last few months Lenovo has pulled two worrying insecurity stunts. And you've already got a Mac...
Sounds like folks have been able to put a 2gb and 4gb dimm in their MacBook Pro 3,1s, to get the ram up to 6gb. That's enough to give it a bit of life. And SSDs are cheap, so get one of those. I've got a roughly contemporary ThinkPad, and is totally fine for web and videos.
posted by wotsac at 9:09 PM on August 15, 2015
Sounds like folks have been able to put a 2gb and 4gb dimm in their MacBook Pro 3,1s, to get the ram up to 6gb. That's enough to give it a bit of life. And SSDs are cheap, so get one of those. I've got a roughly contemporary ThinkPad, and is totally fine for web and videos.
posted by wotsac at 9:09 PM on August 15, 2015
Nothing you buy now will run anything significant seven years from now. That is the nature of the industry and has been for about twenty years now. Nothing you can do to your current Macbook will make it run significantly better. Source: former AppleCare employee.
Your eight year old Macbook , running an obsolete version of OS X, that is not being updated for security leaks and is now very susceptible to leaking everything you type into it, is now not even able to reliably surf the internet properly.
Your choices are to purchase another expensive laptop, such as a Macbook, that will last a long time (physically) or get a cheapo Chromebook that will last 2 or 3 years. The Chromebook might be your better option if you want to just surf. Don't plan on using it for effective video or photo editing though and movie playback is not going to be comparable to a better machine but for websurfing and reading email it will work just fine.
posted by AGameOfMoans at 9:30 PM on August 15, 2015
Your eight year old Macbook , running an obsolete version of OS X, that is not being updated for security leaks and is now very susceptible to leaking everything you type into it, is now not even able to reliably surf the internet properly.
Your choices are to purchase another expensive laptop, such as a Macbook, that will last a long time (physically) or get a cheapo Chromebook that will last 2 or 3 years. The Chromebook might be your better option if you want to just surf. Don't plan on using it for effective video or photo editing though and movie playback is not going to be comparable to a better machine but for websurfing and reading email it will work just fine.
posted by AGameOfMoans at 9:30 PM on August 15, 2015
Don't forget to factor in the potential selling price of a new Macbook, if you choose to go that route. You could buy a new SSD Macbook (I'd get one via Apple's refurb site), use it for a few years, and then still sell it for a significant portion of what you paid. Other laptop brands don't tend to have that option.
But if you don't want to put down that kind of money upfront, I'd go with a Chromebook.
posted by littlegreen at 12:44 AM on August 16, 2015
But if you don't want to put down that kind of money upfront, I'd go with a Chromebook.
posted by littlegreen at 12:44 AM on August 16, 2015
I have a 2011 MacBook and a 2011 Air 11.6". I put a bigger HD in the Air, and I will use it until I can't put new versions of MacOS in it. I expect I'll get 8-9 years out of it. It's super fast.
I plan on putting an SSD in the MacBook, and I export I'll be able to keep it until 2019-20 as well.
posted by persona au gratin at 1:21 AM on August 16, 2015
I plan on putting an SSD in the MacBook, and I export I'll be able to keep it until 2019-20 as well.
posted by persona au gratin at 1:21 AM on August 16, 2015
Best answer: My 2007 imac was working perfectly fine when i sold it to my friend a few months ago. She's still using it, and it still handles the modern internet well. Nothing really chokes it up.
It was the absolute balls to the wall maxed out model back then.
The only thing i'd max out on a modern machine now is ram. I'd buy the most basic macbook pro 13, which is currently a generation ahead of the 15 in several areas, and just select 16gb of ram.
Everyone i know, for the most part, still using machines that old without aftermarket upgrades has a machine that was totally maxed out from the factory. That's a pretty failsafe method.
I used a pretty muscular desktop by 2003 specs until about 2012. My work is still using 2008~ish workstations that were almost the maximum available at the time and cost a buttload of money, but they still handle everything fine.
For what it's worth, overall as someone who works as a sysadmin/network engineer and has been repairing laptops for almost 15 years now, i would still buy a mac. They're not as modular as they used to be, but they just have too good of a track record for aging gracefully and getting meaningful updates that don't totally gum them up. The main trick is having lots of RAM, often and early.
I really think current machines with SSDs are going to age so much better than older machines performance wise. Also, if you want the longest possible life out of an SSD, you should buy a bigger one than you need and make an effort to just dump stuff on an external drive and never fill it up more than say, half way.
Would upgrading the RAM to 4GB make a significant enough difference to restore performance to acceptable levels?
I don't think so, because that model has endemic problems with the GPU failing, killing the entire motherboard. It could die at any moment, and just because it lasted this long doesn't mean it's "safe".
At this point even a $200 windows tablet has a stronger CPU than that, as well. Time has really moved on. Would one of those with maxed out ram(6gb on that model) and an SSD still perform pretty admirably? Yea, but it's done its duty, and you wont regain enough performance for it to matter. It's being held up by the CPU at this point.
On windows laptops... Thinkpads are good, yes, but navigating which one to buy and what's worth it is labyrinthine. The most basic macbook pro, or even macbook air is a worthwhile machine. The basic thinkpads are junk. The next model up of most apple machines is a great machine, but you have to pick and choose with thinkpads... or most other quality brands. Even dell makes some good machines, but you need to do some research to find out what those are. And the worth-buying stuff? It's at most a hundred or two dollars less than apple, especially refurbished apple from their online store, which is just as good as buying new. It also often has issues in comparison, like crappier trackpads, a plasticy case, or an inferior screen.
I only end up recommending windows laptops anymore when someone says "what's the best machine i can get for $dollars". When the question is "what's the best machine i can get", and lots of handholding isn't going to be involved, it's basically "start with this mac and buy the coolest one you can afford in that series". The retina macbook pros are at this point, a mature chassis and design that just works so smoothly. I have one of the earliest ones, and it can be vaguely janky(but has been reliable). My friend has the very newest one and it's never had an issue and runs incredibly fluid, cool, and silent in a way even my older macbook pros didn't when they were brand new.
Also, the screen will ruin you for any other screen forever. It's seriously that good. I don't really see where they're going to be able to go within 7 years that will blow me away that hard again unless we get holographic displays or something.
posted by emptythought at 3:29 AM on August 16, 2015 [1 favorite]
It was the absolute balls to the wall maxed out model back then.
The only thing i'd max out on a modern machine now is ram. I'd buy the most basic macbook pro 13, which is currently a generation ahead of the 15 in several areas, and just select 16gb of ram.
Everyone i know, for the most part, still using machines that old without aftermarket upgrades has a machine that was totally maxed out from the factory. That's a pretty failsafe method.
I used a pretty muscular desktop by 2003 specs until about 2012. My work is still using 2008~ish workstations that were almost the maximum available at the time and cost a buttload of money, but they still handle everything fine.
For what it's worth, overall as someone who works as a sysadmin/network engineer and has been repairing laptops for almost 15 years now, i would still buy a mac. They're not as modular as they used to be, but they just have too good of a track record for aging gracefully and getting meaningful updates that don't totally gum them up. The main trick is having lots of RAM, often and early.
I really think current machines with SSDs are going to age so much better than older machines performance wise. Also, if you want the longest possible life out of an SSD, you should buy a bigger one than you need and make an effort to just dump stuff on an external drive and never fill it up more than say, half way.
Would upgrading the RAM to 4GB make a significant enough difference to restore performance to acceptable levels?
I don't think so, because that model has endemic problems with the GPU failing, killing the entire motherboard. It could die at any moment, and just because it lasted this long doesn't mean it's "safe".
At this point even a $200 windows tablet has a stronger CPU than that, as well. Time has really moved on. Would one of those with maxed out ram(6gb on that model) and an SSD still perform pretty admirably? Yea, but it's done its duty, and you wont regain enough performance for it to matter. It's being held up by the CPU at this point.
On windows laptops... Thinkpads are good, yes, but navigating which one to buy and what's worth it is labyrinthine. The most basic macbook pro, or even macbook air is a worthwhile machine. The basic thinkpads are junk. The next model up of most apple machines is a great machine, but you have to pick and choose with thinkpads... or most other quality brands. Even dell makes some good machines, but you need to do some research to find out what those are. And the worth-buying stuff? It's at most a hundred or two dollars less than apple, especially refurbished apple from their online store, which is just as good as buying new. It also often has issues in comparison, like crappier trackpads, a plasticy case, or an inferior screen.
I only end up recommending windows laptops anymore when someone says "what's the best machine i can get for $dollars". When the question is "what's the best machine i can get", and lots of handholding isn't going to be involved, it's basically "start with this mac and buy the coolest one you can afford in that series". The retina macbook pros are at this point, a mature chassis and design that just works so smoothly. I have one of the earliest ones, and it can be vaguely janky(but has been reliable). My friend has the very newest one and it's never had an issue and runs incredibly fluid, cool, and silent in a way even my older macbook pros didn't when they were brand new.
Also, the screen will ruin you for any other screen forever. It's seriously that good. I don't really see where they're going to be able to go within 7 years that will blow me away that hard again unless we get holographic displays or something.
posted by emptythought at 3:29 AM on August 16, 2015 [1 favorite]
Its time to retire the 2007 Macbook. It has served you well.
The current 13" MB Pro retina is an amazing machine. Just make sure you order it with the maximum amount of memory (ram) since you cannot upgrade this later.
posted by Mac-Expert at 3:32 AM on August 16, 2015
The current 13" MB Pro retina is an amazing machine. Just make sure you order it with the maximum amount of memory (ram) since you cannot upgrade this later.
posted by Mac-Expert at 3:32 AM on August 16, 2015
Response by poster: Thanks everyone. I think it's time to retire the 2007 model. I can actually afford to, I just have a thing about buying new things when the old one still works. At some point, though, not having to put up with annoying experiences all the time is worth something too.
I'm going to try the chromebook first, because if I end up hating it, it's not a very expensive experiment. I have my doubts, having used cloud-based Google and Microsoft apps. My experience is that, at least in MS's case, they're crippled versions of the real thing, and the slowness is annoying. Google watching everything I do seems a bit creepy. But like I said, it's rare that I do anything (on my home computer) other than browse the web anyway.
If all else fails, I'll get the shiniest MacBook Air with all the RAM later.
posted by ctmf at 12:53 PM on August 16, 2015
I'm going to try the chromebook first, because if I end up hating it, it's not a very expensive experiment. I have my doubts, having used cloud-based Google and Microsoft apps. My experience is that, at least in MS's case, they're crippled versions of the real thing, and the slowness is annoying. Google watching everything I do seems a bit creepy. But like I said, it's rare that I do anything (on my home computer) other than browse the web anyway.
If all else fails, I'll get the shiniest MacBook Air with all the RAM later.
posted by ctmf at 12:53 PM on August 16, 2015
Installing a lightweight linux distro can dramatically increase the lifespan of your laptop, whatever brand you may have.
posted by stonetongue at 4:38 PM on August 16, 2015
posted by stonetongue at 4:38 PM on August 16, 2015
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It certainly couldn't hurt to try the memory upgrade first. RAM is incredibly cheap nowadays. You might also try using Safari instead, as the recent version of Firefox seem to be very resource hungry in comparison.
posted by tkolstee at 5:03 PM on August 15, 2015 [2 favorites]