Surprise poly desires in a monogamous relationship.
May 14, 2015 3:19 PM Subscribe
My wife has recently announced that she is likely polyamorous, complete with relatively long term poly-crush, while I am... not so much. This is........ a bit of a mess.
Dating 4.5 years, married slightly over one year or 6 months, depending which ceremony you go by. I'm mid 30's male, she's slightly older. She grew up in a rather repressive small town, but is pretty sex positive and had a few partners, either in monogamous relationships, or while single and free. She is much more self-judgmental and hard on herself for this than I ever could/would/will be.
However, the announcement of her poly-ness, while not ENTIRELY a surprise, was.... disconcerting in that she seems A, way more intense about it than I expected, and B, that shes got someone in mind for said poly-....seconds? Is that right? I have very little clue.
She does love me, and I do love her. She has not, I'm 99.999% sure, cheated. I'm trying very hard to be accepting, understanding, and patient... but the bottom line on my side is I'm pretty sure I can't or won't be willing to let her have her second.
She says she has been thinking about this (AND her second, bleah!) for at least several months, and that the wedding felt like she was 'trapped' from being able to explore this poly.
We do have therapy in two weeks (probably the nearest appointment, unless one or both of us skips work, which I'm..... considering now), with our usual therapist (ironically, we do indeed share one, and it has worked out for us) but I suspect she is going to gently, but stubbornly use this (and the local poly group I agreed to go visit) to try to get me to change my mind. Her general attitude towards not getting the poly seems to be that it would somehow hurt her emotionally. And she is trying to be equitable- she'd help me find someone to balance out her poly-crush sexytimes. She's been honest and miserable that this mess hurts me. Shes not happy she thinks she's poly. She does think, at this point, that the poly is likely to be her legitimate sexual orientation now, and that even if poly-crush vanished, one would rise to take his place sooner or later.
Shes not abusive or manipulative.... so I'm pretty stuck, here. Neither of us wants a divorce. I, for perfectly valid reasons, as well as jealousy, insecurity, and some childhood baggage, do not think that I will be ok with poly-sharing. She seems to really want it. I'm.... all sorts of lost, aside from trying to be supportive, not too mad, not too hurt... blah.
Worst bit, I strongly suspect the poly-crush is her direct supervisor at work... which... I can't even.....
Throwaway email: metanotsopoly@gmail.com
Dating 4.5 years, married slightly over one year or 6 months, depending which ceremony you go by. I'm mid 30's male, she's slightly older. She grew up in a rather repressive small town, but is pretty sex positive and had a few partners, either in monogamous relationships, or while single and free. She is much more self-judgmental and hard on herself for this than I ever could/would/will be.
However, the announcement of her poly-ness, while not ENTIRELY a surprise, was.... disconcerting in that she seems A, way more intense about it than I expected, and B, that shes got someone in mind for said poly-....seconds? Is that right? I have very little clue.
She does love me, and I do love her. She has not, I'm 99.999% sure, cheated. I'm trying very hard to be accepting, understanding, and patient... but the bottom line on my side is I'm pretty sure I can't or won't be willing to let her have her second.
She says she has been thinking about this (AND her second, bleah!) for at least several months, and that the wedding felt like she was 'trapped' from being able to explore this poly.
We do have therapy in two weeks (probably the nearest appointment, unless one or both of us skips work, which I'm..... considering now), with our usual therapist (ironically, we do indeed share one, and it has worked out for us) but I suspect she is going to gently, but stubbornly use this (and the local poly group I agreed to go visit) to try to get me to change my mind. Her general attitude towards not getting the poly seems to be that it would somehow hurt her emotionally. And she is trying to be equitable- she'd help me find someone to balance out her poly-crush sexytimes. She's been honest and miserable that this mess hurts me. Shes not happy she thinks she's poly. She does think, at this point, that the poly is likely to be her legitimate sexual orientation now, and that even if poly-crush vanished, one would rise to take his place sooner or later.
Shes not abusive or manipulative.... so I'm pretty stuck, here. Neither of us wants a divorce. I, for perfectly valid reasons, as well as jealousy, insecurity, and some childhood baggage, do not think that I will be ok with poly-sharing. She seems to really want it. I'm.... all sorts of lost, aside from trying to be supportive, not too mad, not too hurt... blah.
Worst bit, I strongly suspect the poly-crush is her direct supervisor at work... which... I can't even.....
Throwaway email: metanotsopoly@gmail.com
When you were getting married, it sounds like you signed up for a monogamous relationship. That meant you would have to make certain sacrifices, avoid certain temptations, reject crushes. I don't see how calling it "poly" makes what your wife wants any more consistent with your reasonable expectations or limits. You should be loving, but you shouldn't feel compelled to be tolerant here. I hope the counseling works for you both and that you both find happiness.
posted by Slap Factory at 3:37 PM on May 14, 2015 [25 favorites]
posted by Slap Factory at 3:37 PM on May 14, 2015 [25 favorites]
What is the question here? You don't have to go along with this. This is a perfectly legitimate dealbreaker and it sounds like if you did give into it, it would be because you are ignoring your needs and focusing only on hers. That's not healthy and you'll be miserable. If she needs this in her life, maybe your marriage has run its course? You got married and it meant something specific, and now she wants to change it into something you never signed up for.
Of course, part of me has to wonder if poly is just code for having a crush on someone else and wanting it to be ok with you? Whatever her insistence that she is legit poly, her past behavior has not been in line with that. And I don't like how you seem to place "blame" on yourself for not being comfortable with this. You say you're insecure, have family baggage, whatever, and that's why you can't do this. When you frame it like that, you frame your tendency toward monogamy as a problem that needs to be fixed, which I just don't think is the case. Lots of people are monogamous, and it's not because they are killjoys or insecure.
posted by AppleTurnover at 3:40 PM on May 14, 2015 [43 favorites]
Of course, part of me has to wonder if poly is just code for having a crush on someone else and wanting it to be ok with you? Whatever her insistence that she is legit poly, her past behavior has not been in line with that. And I don't like how you seem to place "blame" on yourself for not being comfortable with this. You say you're insecure, have family baggage, whatever, and that's why you can't do this. When you frame it like that, you frame your tendency toward monogamy as a problem that needs to be fixed, which I just don't think is the case. Lots of people are monogamous, and it's not because they are killjoys or insecure.
posted by AppleTurnover at 3:40 PM on May 14, 2015 [43 favorites]
I don't want to give the impression here that I'm opposed to non-monogamy in any way; my girlfriend and I have an open relationship that we both find very satisfying. I believe, though, that the success of our partnership has been contingent on this being something that both of us wanted from the very beginning. In previous relationships I was open to the idea of non-monogamy, but I was with partners who preferred monogamy (and that was fine with me at the time). In two of those relationships, said partners eventually changed their minds and suggested non-monogamy, and in both of those cases they were monogamous with their new partners within the span of six months.
I can think of three other relationships in my social circle where the same thing has happened. I'm sure that exceptions exist, but if we were laying bets, I'd put dollars to donuts on any relationship where one partner suddenly changes hir mind on the subject of monogamy being terminated within a year.
So… Yeah. Poly is great, and I 100% endorse it to anyone who thinks that it might be for them, but if I were you, I would start getting my business in order and bracing for the possible end of the relationship. It might not happen (in which case, GREAT!), but it wouldn't hurt to consider the likelihood that it will.
posted by Parasite Unseen at 3:43 PM on May 14, 2015 [12 favorites]
I can think of three other relationships in my social circle where the same thing has happened. I'm sure that exceptions exist, but if we were laying bets, I'd put dollars to donuts on any relationship where one partner suddenly changes hir mind on the subject of monogamy being terminated within a year.
So… Yeah. Poly is great, and I 100% endorse it to anyone who thinks that it might be for them, but if I were you, I would start getting my business in order and bracing for the possible end of the relationship. It might not happen (in which case, GREAT!), but it wouldn't hurt to consider the likelihood that it will.
posted by Parasite Unseen at 3:43 PM on May 14, 2015 [12 favorites]
She may well be poly, but she's chosen to be in a monogamous relationship, asmany poly people do. She can try to re-negotiate that but that is not the default setting for your matrimonial agreement and you should not be bullied here. I would suggest you very quickly get ahold of two copies of The Ethical Slut so you have some vocabulary, more knowledge and a shared framework for your discussion.
posted by DarlingBri at 3:45 PM on May 14, 2015 [29 favorites]
posted by DarlingBri at 3:45 PM on May 14, 2015 [29 favorites]
Her general attitude towards not getting the poly seems to be that it would somehow hurt her emotionally.
And her getting it will "somehow" hurt you emotionally, too! Your feelings are just as valid! Her proposed solution of you getting your own second may be "equitable", as you say, but it's like (sorry for the bad metaphor) she wants to jump off a cliff and you say "no, I don't want you to jump off a cliff" and her response is "well, you can jump with me."
posted by karbonokapi at 3:47 PM on May 14, 2015 [22 favorites]
And her getting it will "somehow" hurt you emotionally, too! Your feelings are just as valid! Her proposed solution of you getting your own second may be "equitable", as you say, but it's like (sorry for the bad metaphor) she wants to jump off a cliff and you say "no, I don't want you to jump off a cliff" and her response is "well, you can jump with me."
posted by karbonokapi at 3:47 PM on May 14, 2015 [22 favorites]
The general advice for couples considering a poly lifestyle is it's not a good idea if one partner already has someone else in mind when bringing the subject up. It stops being a request for a lifestyle they would like to explore & more a request for permission have an affair.
posted by wwax at 4:00 PM on May 14, 2015 [95 favorites]
posted by wwax at 4:00 PM on May 14, 2015 [95 favorites]
I'm kind of the wife in your situation -- figured this out about 8 years into our currently almost-21 year marriage -- and my husband is monogamous and I just want to tell you that you do not have to agree to opening your relationship.
My husband didn't, exactly...we have come to a quirky monogamish agreement that works for us. He accepts my feelings; I regulate my behaviors; it's stood up pretty well with particular people who understand and get our stuff. But the reason it all works is that we both got clarity on each other's true selves. He knows I have people in my life I would get naked with in a New York minute if he were okay with it.
I know he really gave the consideration of that his all and he just plain is not okay with it. And I deeply get that is just fine; he is not holding me back or lacking enlightenment or would have more fun. He is monogamous and frankly, I married him that way with vows, and that counts for a heck of a lot.
So I don't, and the people I don't with also don't and we all walk some lines from time to time, like I go on an art getaway weekend with my other significant person and giggle in front of Chagall's windows and eat at Next and keep my clothes on. I don't recommend this necessarily, I'm just saying it is achievable.
You are very welcome to me
mail me :)
posted by warriorqueen at 4:13 PM on May 14, 2015 [15 favorites]
My husband didn't, exactly...we have come to a quirky monogamish agreement that works for us. He accepts my feelings; I regulate my behaviors; it's stood up pretty well with particular people who understand and get our stuff. But the reason it all works is that we both got clarity on each other's true selves. He knows I have people in my life I would get naked with in a New York minute if he were okay with it.
I know he really gave the consideration of that his all and he just plain is not okay with it. And I deeply get that is just fine; he is not holding me back or lacking enlightenment or would have more fun. He is monogamous and frankly, I married him that way with vows, and that counts for a heck of a lot.
So I don't, and the people I don't with also don't and we all walk some lines from time to time, like I go on an art getaway weekend with my other significant person and giggle in front of Chagall's windows and eat at Next and keep my clothes on. I don't recommend this necessarily, I'm just saying it is achievable.
You are very welcome to me
mail me :)
posted by warriorqueen at 4:13 PM on May 14, 2015 [15 favorites]
You've had a monogamous relationship and mutually agreed to a monogamous marriage. If she wants to be poly now and already has someone in mind (this factor screams crush and request for sanctioned affair, IMO), it's fine to say no if that's not how you whole-heartedly want this relationship to change. Poly relationships require a tremendous amount of communication, honesty, and boundary respect. I'd argue that she's already failing in some of these areas. Her reluctance to bring this up before the marriage despite feeling "trapped" and being aware of her possibly poly feelings is not a great endorsement of how well she's managing honest communication. Additionally, she's not being very respectful of her monogamous commitments to you by essentially telling you that you'll be hurting her emotionally by not agreeing to opening your relationship.
It's absolutely fine for you to say no to this proposal. I know of several marriages/long-term partnerships where one partner is poly or bi, but the relationship is absolutely monogamous. It's possible and a reality for many couples. Of the people I know in this arrangement, none would claim that they're somehow being damaged or not being allowed to be their truest selves.
How a couple negotiates the parameters of their marriage/relationship is highly individual. My partner and I had extended conversations about the very real possibility that both of us would get crushes on others through the course of our monogamous relationship. This is a natural occurrence and one that should be planned for. There will be astonishingly attractive people who cross your path as you go through life. Having a desire to indulge those attractions while safeguarding the partnership that you've already invested so much in is also natural. Who doesn't like the fantasy of having their cake and eating it, too? However, if you've agreed to a monogamous relationship, each partner's responsibility is to deflate and minimize the crushes, not declare that you now need to have an open relationship.
I'd move the appointment with the therapist up. And, if you're interested in learning more about poly, the book "Opening Up" is a fine place to start. I'd also recommend that you don't do a club visit until you have gone through some joint therapy and read some books together and come to an understanding that both of you can live with. While she may be enthusiastic about getting permission, you do not have to rush through the evaluation process.
posted by quince at 4:38 PM on May 14, 2015 [8 favorites]
It's absolutely fine for you to say no to this proposal. I know of several marriages/long-term partnerships where one partner is poly or bi, but the relationship is absolutely monogamous. It's possible and a reality for many couples. Of the people I know in this arrangement, none would claim that they're somehow being damaged or not being allowed to be their truest selves.
How a couple negotiates the parameters of their marriage/relationship is highly individual. My partner and I had extended conversations about the very real possibility that both of us would get crushes on others through the course of our monogamous relationship. This is a natural occurrence and one that should be planned for. There will be astonishingly attractive people who cross your path as you go through life. Having a desire to indulge those attractions while safeguarding the partnership that you've already invested so much in is also natural. Who doesn't like the fantasy of having their cake and eating it, too? However, if you've agreed to a monogamous relationship, each partner's responsibility is to deflate and minimize the crushes, not declare that you now need to have an open relationship.
I'd move the appointment with the therapist up. And, if you're interested in learning more about poly, the book "Opening Up" is a fine place to start. I'd also recommend that you don't do a club visit until you have gone through some joint therapy and read some books together and come to an understanding that both of you can live with. While she may be enthusiastic about getting permission, you do not have to rush through the evaluation process.
posted by quince at 4:38 PM on May 14, 2015 [8 favorites]
Who doesn't like the fantasy of having their cake and eating it, too? However, if you've agreed to a monogamous relationship, each partner's responsibility is to deflate and minimize the crushes, not declare that you now need to have an open relationship.
I think this bears repeating.
posted by jesourie at 4:59 PM on May 14, 2015 [5 favorites]
I think this bears repeating.
posted by jesourie at 4:59 PM on May 14, 2015 [5 favorites]
I'm not against polyamory in any way, but I'm sorry to say your wife is going at this ass-backwards. You don't get a crush on someone and then announce you're poly.
It's great you're going to therapy, but I will echo the other commenters and say I think you might have to be prepared for the end of the relationship.
posted by Specklet at 5:05 PM on May 14, 2015 [9 favorites]
It's great you're going to therapy, but I will echo the other commenters and say I think you might have to be prepared for the end of the relationship.
posted by Specklet at 5:05 PM on May 14, 2015 [9 favorites]
Like quince, I recommend you two skip the club visit until you've discussed it more and had those therapy appointments. I also recommend you see the therapist sooner rather than later but also try to find a couples therapist who is neither your nor her personal therapist. It might be fine, of course, but something feels off about it to me.
I feel for you. I also feel for her because people are being awfully harsh here. Yes, it sucks but it also is what it is. Can you find some compassion for her in this situation? The timing sucks, yes, but at least the truth is finally coming out. (It's not like her feelings weren't there before.) And how good that she feels comfortable telling it to you. Are you feeling ready to examine yourself and your own behavior? Perhaps she's just excited about the thrill of a new relationship energy but perhaps she also feels something is missing from her relationship with you. Perhaps it'll be something you can and would be willing to "change" but perhaps it isn't; regardless, it's something to consider when you go into counseling. Are you ready to hear the good, bad, and ugly about your relationship with her? Are you ready to truly listen and try to see where she's coming from? (If not, it's OK because I know you're feeling sad, angry, and hurt right now. However, I think it'll be essential for continuing the relationship, whatever form that may take.)
I feel like it's premature to make any decisions yet but your options may well be 1) get divorced right away or 2) let her explore her attraction to others with some boundaries and then see. Perhaps maintaining the relationship as is will be a possibility but it's unlikely it'll ever be quite the same. However, it really could possibly get better in the end, too. I wish you both luck.
posted by smorgasbord at 5:07 PM on May 14, 2015 [1 favorite]
I feel for you. I also feel for her because people are being awfully harsh here. Yes, it sucks but it also is what it is. Can you find some compassion for her in this situation? The timing sucks, yes, but at least the truth is finally coming out. (It's not like her feelings weren't there before.) And how good that she feels comfortable telling it to you. Are you feeling ready to examine yourself and your own behavior? Perhaps she's just excited about the thrill of a new relationship energy but perhaps she also feels something is missing from her relationship with you. Perhaps it'll be something you can and would be willing to "change" but perhaps it isn't; regardless, it's something to consider when you go into counseling. Are you ready to hear the good, bad, and ugly about your relationship with her? Are you ready to truly listen and try to see where she's coming from? (If not, it's OK because I know you're feeling sad, angry, and hurt right now. However, I think it'll be essential for continuing the relationship, whatever form that may take.)
I feel like it's premature to make any decisions yet but your options may well be 1) get divorced right away or 2) let her explore her attraction to others with some boundaries and then see. Perhaps maintaining the relationship as is will be a possibility but it's unlikely it'll ever be quite the same. However, it really could possibly get better in the end, too. I wish you both luck.
posted by smorgasbord at 5:07 PM on May 14, 2015 [1 favorite]
My general feeling on the matter that is that people are not polyamorous, relationships are. Until you both agree otherwise, you are in a monogamous relationship. Looked at it from that light, it looks as though she has come to you and confessed a desire to cheat. She is asking your permission to do so, maybe a bit aggressively. This is not permission you have to give.
Anyway, how much better her asking your permission to cheat rather than just doing it? Many many (most?) people in monogamous relationships are occasionally taken by the desire to cheat. Not cheating involves a certain amount of emotional strife, but this is the sort of things adults have to deal with. It sounds like you have a good basis for a productive conversation with your therapist and I see no reason you can't just ask your wife to table the whole thing for two weeks.
posted by 256 at 5:10 PM on May 14, 2015 [12 favorites]
Anyway, how much better her asking your permission to cheat rather than just doing it? Many many (most?) people in monogamous relationships are occasionally taken by the desire to cheat. Not cheating involves a certain amount of emotional strife, but this is the sort of things adults have to deal with. It sounds like you have a good basis for a productive conversation with your therapist and I see no reason you can't just ask your wife to table the whole thing for two weeks.
posted by 256 at 5:10 PM on May 14, 2015 [12 favorites]
It's not a "poly-crush," she just wants to have an affair. I would find her use of the term "poly" very annoying here.
It's not like her feelings weren't there before
What the hell was she doing entering into a monogamous marriage, then? She needs to adult up here.
posted by kmennie at 5:10 PM on May 14, 2015 [31 favorites]
It's not like her feelings weren't there before
What the hell was she doing entering into a monogamous marriage, then? She needs to adult up here.
posted by kmennie at 5:10 PM on May 14, 2015 [31 favorites]
Opening up. Having seconds. Monogomish... like everything else with sex is dependent on mutual consent.
You don't consent. Period, end of fucking story.
I am not personally a big fan of monogamy, but you can be! Being monogamous is not uncool or sex negative or repressed or lame. It's a great thing for people who want it and 100% incompatible with polyamory. It's not a venn diagram, it's two perfect circles.
posted by French Fry at 5:32 PM on May 14, 2015 [6 favorites]
You don't consent. Period, end of fucking story.
I am not personally a big fan of monogamy, but you can be! Being monogamous is not uncool or sex negative or repressed or lame. It's a great thing for people who want it and 100% incompatible with polyamory. It's not a venn diagram, it's two perfect circles.
posted by French Fry at 5:32 PM on May 14, 2015 [6 favorites]
You know, people encounter situations they hadn't expected and confront things they hadn't known about themselves, after they've married, all the time. It is par for the course. This may be the first time you two encounter a big surprise about one or the other of you in your married life but it will almost certainly not be the last.
Your wife may well have a big crush on someone and want to act on it. She has told you about it instead of cheating on you, which many many people would do. She's proposing the idea of acting under an open relatiojship agreement wih you--she's pitching the idea of poly--because she loves you. And that's a good thing, right?
You don't have to think it's great that she's feeling this way, and you don't have to agree to open your relationship, but I do think that you two will be better served in the long run if you can find a way to respect *that* she's having this attraction and that she loves and respects you enough to be upfront about it. And that's a good thing, right?
Lastly, know that what she's talking about--her self-concept, her feelings of attraction--are about her, not you. It's not that this other person has something you don't (though because they are not you, there are bound to be differences between you and him) or that you are deficient in some way or that she has lost love for you. You do sound surprised and shaken up and that's not unusual--but know that you can steady yourself about this.
Good luck to both of you!
posted by Sublimity at 6:05 PM on May 14, 2015 [10 favorites]
Your wife may well have a big crush on someone and want to act on it. She has told you about it instead of cheating on you, which many many people would do. She's proposing the idea of acting under an open relatiojship agreement wih you--she's pitching the idea of poly--because she loves you. And that's a good thing, right?
You don't have to think it's great that she's feeling this way, and you don't have to agree to open your relationship, but I do think that you two will be better served in the long run if you can find a way to respect *that* she's having this attraction and that she loves and respects you enough to be upfront about it. And that's a good thing, right?
Lastly, know that what she's talking about--her self-concept, her feelings of attraction--are about her, not you. It's not that this other person has something you don't (though because they are not you, there are bound to be differences between you and him) or that you are deficient in some way or that she has lost love for you. You do sound surprised and shaken up and that's not unusual--but know that you can steady yourself about this.
Good luck to both of you!
posted by Sublimity at 6:05 PM on May 14, 2015 [10 favorites]
She has not cheated on you even though she clearly could have. She has been very honest about having a crush. She wants to stay married to you and remain sexually active with you. She's attempting to communicate proactively with you, and work towards a solution you can both live with. She's willing to attend even more counseling sessions with you. These are all super duper positive things, even though at first glance they certainly may not seem like it. These are all signs of a fairly high functioning marriage and a spouse who is demonstrating integrity. Try not to lose sight of that. Hang in there. Keep it real with her and don't settle.
posted by hush at 6:21 PM on May 14, 2015 [4 favorites]
posted by hush at 6:21 PM on May 14, 2015 [4 favorites]
What the hell was she doing entering into a monogamous marriage, then? She needs to adult up here.
Seconded! You've been together at least 5 years and it's only NOW come up as her "orientation?" Really? Does smell a bit fishy/emotional affair-y, though to be fair it might not be. (Also, hell no don't date someone at work! Especially your supervisor! Even if they were both single, that is bad!)
Her general attitude towards not getting the poly seems to be that it would somehow hurt her emotionally. And she is trying to be equitable- she'd help me find someone to balance out her poly-crush sexytimes.
While it's fair to say what's good for the goose is good for the gander...it's also not a selling point to you to offer you exactly what you don't want. "You can get a second too!" isn't an awesome treat if you didn't want one in the first place. And it sounds like she's being kinda emotionally blackmail-y to insist on getting to boink this dude.
I...honestly, I think this is already heading towards divorce country here. warriorqueen's solution sounds like it would be manageable if your wife was willing to curb it, but she sounds pretty forceful about wanting to nail the other guy, and you're just not okay with that. And "giving it a try" on your part will probably only make it even worse if you hate the idea of it now.
posted by jenfullmoon at 6:32 PM on May 14, 2015 [8 favorites]
Seconded! You've been together at least 5 years and it's only NOW come up as her "orientation?" Really? Does smell a bit fishy/emotional affair-y, though to be fair it might not be. (Also, hell no don't date someone at work! Especially your supervisor! Even if they were both single, that is bad!)
Her general attitude towards not getting the poly seems to be that it would somehow hurt her emotionally. And she is trying to be equitable- she'd help me find someone to balance out her poly-crush sexytimes.
While it's fair to say what's good for the goose is good for the gander...it's also not a selling point to you to offer you exactly what you don't want. "You can get a second too!" isn't an awesome treat if you didn't want one in the first place. And it sounds like she's being kinda emotionally blackmail-y to insist on getting to boink this dude.
I...honestly, I think this is already heading towards divorce country here. warriorqueen's solution sounds like it would be manageable if your wife was willing to curb it, but she sounds pretty forceful about wanting to nail the other guy, and you're just not okay with that. And "giving it a try" on your part will probably only make it even worse if you hate the idea of it now.
posted by jenfullmoon at 6:32 PM on May 14, 2015 [8 favorites]
So your wife's been thinking about this for months, yet you've only been married for six months and her marrying you has made her feel trapped that she can't sleep with whoever she feels like? And that if you don't let her have an affair with her crush, you'll be hurting her emotionally and, anyway, she'll just find someone else to replace him after that, if you say no? Look, other people have called this honesty, but seriously, this is so, so manipulative. She's trying every angle she can find to get her way, and even therapy sounds like it's just a tool to get you to come around.
It sounds like the reality of marriage has hit - one person for the rest of her life and while she likes you just fine and probably likes the security you represent, she wants her cake too. From the sounds of it, she knew this about herself before she got married but chose not to share this inconsequential piece of information and now she's holding you hostage with it, or you know, you'll hurt her emotionally and basically, if you don't let her do this, you don't love her. Because you don't have feelings at all.
Maybe you could get on board with it, but it would wear down your soul. And I'm not against poly relationships at all, I just think there's no integrity or love behind how this is being presented. I just thinks she wants to have affairs, and you can do better.
posted by Jubey at 6:37 PM on May 14, 2015 [29 favorites]
It sounds like the reality of marriage has hit - one person for the rest of her life and while she likes you just fine and probably likes the security you represent, she wants her cake too. From the sounds of it, she knew this about herself before she got married but chose not to share this inconsequential piece of information and now she's holding you hostage with it, or you know, you'll hurt her emotionally and basically, if you don't let her do this, you don't love her. Because you don't have feelings at all.
Maybe you could get on board with it, but it would wear down your soul. And I'm not against poly relationships at all, I just think there's no integrity or love behind how this is being presented. I just thinks she wants to have affairs, and you can do better.
posted by Jubey at 6:37 PM on May 14, 2015 [29 favorites]
Response by poster: A lot of good advice here. Non-monogamy is a real and legitimate choice, but "I have a crush, now I'm poly" is just the worst way to explore it for everyone involved.
Giving your wife the benefit of the doubt: do you think, in light of her repressive upbringing, that she may not realize it is totally normal to get crushes on people outside your relationship? I don't want to infantalize her, but I've met people from sex-negative upbringings who assumed in a strong relationship both parties are never emotionally or physically attracted to anyone else (save, like, movie stars). And if one of them is, then it means something is seriously wrong. So perhaps she's got this crush going and she's thinking "This is so terrible and abnormal! My relationship must be all wrong! Maybe I'm poly?" instead of "Woo boy, this is totally normal but time for me to back off my crush until things cool down."
posted by Anonymous at 7:32 PM on May 14, 2015
Giving your wife the benefit of the doubt: do you think, in light of her repressive upbringing, that she may not realize it is totally normal to get crushes on people outside your relationship? I don't want to infantalize her, but I've met people from sex-negative upbringings who assumed in a strong relationship both parties are never emotionally or physically attracted to anyone else (save, like, movie stars). And if one of them is, then it means something is seriously wrong. So perhaps she's got this crush going and she's thinking "This is so terrible and abnormal! My relationship must be all wrong! Maybe I'm poly?" instead of "Woo boy, this is totally normal but time for me to back off my crush until things cool down."
posted by Anonymous at 7:32 PM on May 14, 2015
I think you may want to consider finding a specifically poly-friendly counselor to talk about this with, as a couple. Note that some of the harshest posts about the way your wife is going about exploring polyamory are coming from people who are themselves in non-monogamous realtionships. She is handling this in a way that us massively unfair to you. For yourself, I would recommend Ethical Slut or some other short primer that's been suggested so you aren't at an information and vocabulary disadvantage. Good luck. Crush on her work supervisor though? Hell naw.
posted by moonlight on vermont at 7:34 PM on May 14, 2015 [2 favorites]
posted by moonlight on vermont at 7:34 PM on May 14, 2015 [2 favorites]
I'm thinking of alternatives but there doesn't seem to be anything else but the two of you being fundamentally incompatible. Making you happy will hurt her. Making her happy will hurt you.
I'm almost certain this supervisor crush will end horrifically if she acts on it. This could be a live bomb in your marriage.
posted by CyborgHag at 8:14 PM on May 14, 2015
I'm almost certain this supervisor crush will end horrifically if she acts on it. This could be a live bomb in your marriage.
posted by CyborgHag at 8:14 PM on May 14, 2015
I'm in a situation much like yours right now (right down to the trapped feeling), except that we are engaged, she warned me that she didn't think she could do monogamy long ago, and she did cheat. I think we are going to break up, although not because of the cheating directly.
I don't know your wife or whether she is willing or capable to resist her desires. But I do think she introduced this in a shitty, manipulative way (even if that was not her intention).
But what is most important, I think, is that you have to decide what you are and are not okay with. Can you do this for your wife? Only you can figure that out, but it's SUPER IMPORTANT to keep in mind that it's okay for you to want (or need) to be monogamous. Don't let her make you think that your desires are wrong, or less important than hers, or just the product of weird hang ups. Your feelings are valid!
posted by J. Wilson at 8:24 PM on May 14, 2015 [3 favorites]
I don't know your wife or whether she is willing or capable to resist her desires. But I do think she introduced this in a shitty, manipulative way (even if that was not her intention).
But what is most important, I think, is that you have to decide what you are and are not okay with. Can you do this for your wife? Only you can figure that out, but it's SUPER IMPORTANT to keep in mind that it's okay for you to want (or need) to be monogamous. Don't let her make you think that your desires are wrong, or less important than hers, or just the product of weird hang ups. Your feelings are valid!
posted by J. Wilson at 8:24 PM on May 14, 2015 [3 favorites]
So during my first year of marriage I got a huge crush on a guy at work. I had it for a couple of months at least. Eventually I came home one day and asked my husband if we could have affairs with other people. He was all, "No. Absolutely not." And I was like, "Okay."
I didn't stop having crushes on different men from time to time, but I never acted on them in the 20+ years that we lived together. Later, after I left him, I was a serial monogamist until I decided that I was, in fact, poly at heart. I took a year off from sex to work on myself and then starting dating other poly people. It was good to find my tribe.
That your wife wants to have sex with other people doesn't make her horrible, it makes her normal. That you don't want to have sex with anyone but your wife and don't want her to either also makes you normal. You have a disagreement but the two of you might well work through this issue as my husband and I did. Best of luck in working things out.
posted by Bella Donna at 9:09 PM on May 14, 2015 [2 favorites]
I didn't stop having crushes on different men from time to time, but I never acted on them in the 20+ years that we lived together. Later, after I left him, I was a serial monogamist until I decided that I was, in fact, poly at heart. I took a year off from sex to work on myself and then starting dating other poly people. It was good to find my tribe.
That your wife wants to have sex with other people doesn't make her horrible, it makes her normal. That you don't want to have sex with anyone but your wife and don't want her to either also makes you normal. You have a disagreement but the two of you might well work through this issue as my husband and I did. Best of luck in working things out.
posted by Bella Donna at 9:09 PM on May 14, 2015 [2 favorites]
On the one hand, not doing something is easier than doing it and should be the default behavior to respect someone else's limits. She needs to respect yours.
On the other hand, regret and longing, or the inability to deny one's desire for more partners, can damage monogamous relationships and end marriages. It did mine.
It's not a foregone conclusion, but it's a very difficult deal-breaker to reconcile. As hard as kids or country of residence.
posted by ead at 1:03 AM on May 15, 2015 [1 favorite]
On the other hand, regret and longing, or the inability to deny one's desire for more partners, can damage monogamous relationships and end marriages. It did mine.
It's not a foregone conclusion, but it's a very difficult deal-breaker to reconcile. As hard as kids or country of residence.
posted by ead at 1:03 AM on May 15, 2015 [1 favorite]
Bella Donna, the difference here is that when your husband told you absolutely not, no poly for you, you respected his point of view and your vows, you didn't then tell him that your marriage made you feel trapped and that not getting to sleep with your ℅ worker would destroy you emotionally, forcing him to choose your happiness over his.
Having crushes and wanting to sleep with other people is normal and human but the way his wife approached it, I think, is pretty selfish and disrespectful. I hope they work it out but she's already told him that even if she gets over this crush, she's seemingly determined to replace it with another one so the husband will always be competing with the competition of other men in his wife's mind for her affections. That's just miserable, and how lovely of her to let him know that this will be their marriage from now on.
posted by Jubey at 1:10 AM on May 15, 2015 [4 favorites]
Having crushes and wanting to sleep with other people is normal and human but the way his wife approached it, I think, is pretty selfish and disrespectful. I hope they work it out but she's already told him that even if she gets over this crush, she's seemingly determined to replace it with another one so the husband will always be competing with the competition of other men in his wife's mind for her affections. That's just miserable, and how lovely of her to let him know that this will be their marriage from now on.
posted by Jubey at 1:10 AM on May 15, 2015 [4 favorites]
I'm among the group that sees her being upfront with you as opposed to just having an affair, at least, as a positive thing. But regardless of whether the two of you ultimately renegotiate the boundaries of your relationship, if it's true that she's thinking about having sex with her direct supervisor at work, that's a terrible, horrible, no-good, very bad idea. I recognize that you aren't sure it's who she intends, but if it is, it has the potential to affect not only your emotional lives but also your family's livelihood.
Even if you do reach the point where you're willing to agree to her exploring her poly side, you're still well within your rights to establish ground rules and boundaries -- no one from work, no one we know, no one we don't know, or whatever you feel comfortable with. In fact, it's essential. I'm nth-ing the recommendation for both of you to read The Ethical Slut.
posted by Gelatin at 5:46 AM on May 15, 2015 [1 favorite]
Even if you do reach the point where you're willing to agree to her exploring her poly side, you're still well within your rights to establish ground rules and boundaries -- no one from work, no one we know, no one we don't know, or whatever you feel comfortable with. In fact, it's essential. I'm nth-ing the recommendation for both of you to read The Ethical Slut.
posted by Gelatin at 5:46 AM on May 15, 2015 [1 favorite]
For what it's worth, a colleague was feeling down about her recent divorce a few weeks ago and we encouraged her to attend the "Divorce Support Group" run by our workplace for employees. She went and said she wouldn't be going back because the entire group session was about how each of the participants had decided that they were polyamorous and their ex-spouses were not and how everyone was shocked SHOCKED! that their formers had a problem when they acted upon said polyamory without agreement or consent.
posted by The 10th Regiment of Foot at 5:53 AM on May 15, 2015 [8 favorites]
posted by The 10th Regiment of Foot at 5:53 AM on May 15, 2015 [8 favorites]
everyone was shocked SHOCKED! that their formers had a problem when they acted upon said polyamory without agreement or consent.
The Ethical Slut points out that lots of people since time immemorial have been polyamorous; they just did so without their partners' consent, and that isn't too cool.
As I said, I think it's admirable that she brought her request to you openly, but by doing so, she needs to be prepared for you not to consent, and to recognize and respect those boundaries. It's clear that your current reaction is not favorable, but I suppose that it's at least possible that you work through the jealousy, insecurity, and childhood baggage you mentioned. In fact, if this issue being in the open leads you ultimately to overcome your feelings of jealousy and insecurity, that'd be A Good Thing! But again, part of that is that if you do say no right now, she abides by your wishes.
She also should recognize that while she may have been dealing with these feelings for some time, for you this is a new situation and you're entitled to time to process it all. She definitely should cool her jets for the time being and not act on these impulses while you're figuring things out, or pressure you to give permission before you're ready.
I hope you're able to work something out that works for both of you.
posted by Gelatin at 6:08 AM on May 15, 2015 [1 favorite]
The Ethical Slut points out that lots of people since time immemorial have been polyamorous; they just did so without their partners' consent, and that isn't too cool.
As I said, I think it's admirable that she brought her request to you openly, but by doing so, she needs to be prepared for you not to consent, and to recognize and respect those boundaries. It's clear that your current reaction is not favorable, but I suppose that it's at least possible that you work through the jealousy, insecurity, and childhood baggage you mentioned. In fact, if this issue being in the open leads you ultimately to overcome your feelings of jealousy and insecurity, that'd be A Good Thing! But again, part of that is that if you do say no right now, she abides by your wishes.
She also should recognize that while she may have been dealing with these feelings for some time, for you this is a new situation and you're entitled to time to process it all. She definitely should cool her jets for the time being and not act on these impulses while you're figuring things out, or pressure you to give permission before you're ready.
I hope you're able to work something out that works for both of you.
posted by Gelatin at 6:08 AM on May 15, 2015 [1 favorite]
I am poly, and am upset by the way she has approached this with you. I don't think she has a good sense of what either being a spouse or being poly means. Her belief that it would be "equitable" if she helped you find another partner suggests a huge disregard for the feelings and agency of both you and the imaginary other person she would like to use as a consolation prize for you.
For now, answer no. Both of you read at least one book about the subject before anything happens. Talk about what you learned from the book with therapists or sane trusted friends, both separately and in person. Try to decide whether this is something you can work with, and what parameters you would need for it to work. The answer may be that it's not for you, and she will need to decide whether she's going to stick to her vows to you or leave.
posted by metasarah at 11:47 AM on May 15, 2015 [8 favorites]
For now, answer no. Both of you read at least one book about the subject before anything happens. Talk about what you learned from the book with therapists or sane trusted friends, both separately and in person. Try to decide whether this is something you can work with, and what parameters you would need for it to work. The answer may be that it's not for you, and she will need to decide whether she's going to stick to her vows to you or leave.
posted by metasarah at 11:47 AM on May 15, 2015 [8 favorites]
Divorce? You might well have grounds for annulment here.
posted by Scram at 3:04 PM on May 15, 2015 [1 favorite]
posted by Scram at 3:04 PM on May 15, 2015 [1 favorite]
She has been very honest about having a crush. - Hush
To add to this, actually, it sounds like she hasn't at all been "very" honest, given that she still hasn't told you who it is, has had it for a long time, and is only presenting it in the context of basically, an ultimatum.
Consider your horses held.
If she wants to be in an equitable poly relationship, it will be because you are coming at it from a place of safety and security. That means trying to make sure you are as safe and secure with it as possible, and letting you know that her being poly, does not in any way weaken her commitment to you.
It may have been terrible mismanagement on her part in the way she presented this to you, which is NOT from a place of safety and security, but maybe overwhelm and emotion got to her.
However, if she cares for you, she will be willing to dial this right back, and go to therapy with you while you get to grips with this.
If she doesn't care enough about your well being to do that, and has decided she is already too frustrated... well. That isn't a good sign for your past communication or your present relationship.
And the supervisor thing? Oh dang. Such a ridiculously bad idea. AND she hasn't told you who it is!
[From someone who has been in many poly relationships]
posted by Elysum at 3:15 PM on May 15, 2015 [1 favorite]
To add to this, actually, it sounds like she hasn't at all been "very" honest, given that she still hasn't told you who it is, has had it for a long time, and is only presenting it in the context of basically, an ultimatum.
Consider your horses held.
If she wants to be in an equitable poly relationship, it will be because you are coming at it from a place of safety and security. That means trying to make sure you are as safe and secure with it as possible, and letting you know that her being poly, does not in any way weaken her commitment to you.
It may have been terrible mismanagement on her part in the way she presented this to you, which is NOT from a place of safety and security, but maybe overwhelm and emotion got to her.
However, if she cares for you, she will be willing to dial this right back, and go to therapy with you while you get to grips with this.
If she doesn't care enough about your well being to do that, and has decided she is already too frustrated... well. That isn't a good sign for your past communication or your present relationship.
And the supervisor thing? Oh dang. Such a ridiculously bad idea. AND she hasn't told you who it is!
[From someone who has been in many poly relationships]
posted by Elysum at 3:15 PM on May 15, 2015 [1 favorite]
She has not, I'm 99.999% sure, cheated.
I don't want to be overly flip but this is kind of famous last words. I'm missing a lot of information but if I was a betting man, she's already in a relationship and she's looking to make it easier to maintain.
posted by ftm at 3:20 PM on May 15, 2015 [2 favorites]
I don't want to be overly flip but this is kind of famous last words. I'm missing a lot of information but if I was a betting man, she's already in a relationship and she's looking to make it easier to maintain.
posted by ftm at 3:20 PM on May 15, 2015 [2 favorites]
Part of being a grown up is realizing that you can't have everything you want. Either your wife needs to grow up, or you need to leave her so you can find a grown up.
She doesn't get to change the rules of the game to suit her when you're already half way through the game. That's called...are you ready for it?...cheating!
posted by MexicanYenta at 7:50 PM on May 15, 2015 [4 favorites]
She doesn't get to change the rules of the game to suit her when you're already half way through the game. That's called...are you ready for it?...cheating!
posted by MexicanYenta at 7:50 PM on May 15, 2015 [4 favorites]
Given your tag of "nojustno" I think you have a pretty clear reaction, even though you're still in a bit of shock.
It is totally fine to be monogamous, the same way it is fine to be straight in this wonderful new world of LBGT2SQQIA acceptance. Being a monogamous straight is not the same as being intolerant.
It is what it is. I'm bi but I am SUPER monogamous. This is not a defect. When I get a crush I change things around so I'm away from that person until it fades. I bring the energy home to my marriage. My partner is mine mine mine and I am theirs theirs theirs. Changing this would be an injury, not a release.
So don't waver. You might read a book or attend a thing, but be clear that so far you've said NO. Nothing other than a clear yes is consent. If she is really poly and you are her primary, your enthusiastic consent will be paramount.
If she's just looking to get pre-approval for cheating, then we're playing a different game. Be clear: it's cheating. No consent. No permission. Nojustno.
posted by heatherann at 4:58 AM on May 20, 2015 [2 favorites]
It is totally fine to be monogamous, the same way it is fine to be straight in this wonderful new world of LBGT2SQQIA acceptance. Being a monogamous straight is not the same as being intolerant.
It is what it is. I'm bi but I am SUPER monogamous. This is not a defect. When I get a crush I change things around so I'm away from that person until it fades. I bring the energy home to my marriage. My partner is mine mine mine and I am theirs theirs theirs. Changing this would be an injury, not a release.
So don't waver. You might read a book or attend a thing, but be clear that so far you've said NO. Nothing other than a clear yes is consent. If she is really poly and you are her primary, your enthusiastic consent will be paramount.
If she's just looking to get pre-approval for cheating, then we're playing a different game. Be clear: it's cheating. No consent. No permission. Nojustno.
posted by heatherann at 4:58 AM on May 20, 2015 [2 favorites]
This thread is closed to new comments.
Can you rule out this one guy and see if she's still into the idea? For goodness sake she should NOT sleep with her direct supervisor at work if she wants to stay in that job. Poly, not poly, cheating, single, whatever, it makes no difference. That's a really bad idea.
posted by quincunx at 3:32 PM on May 14, 2015 [16 favorites]