I hate it, the way I feel, but I just can't seem to shake it
December 31, 2014 9:24 AM Subscribe
My #1 goal for 2015 is to figure out a way to exist without being steamrolled by self-hatred on a daily basis. I don't think I can stop hating myself altogether, but I would like to find out how to hate myself somewhat less, or at least put myself on par with other awful people in order to internalize the possibly misguided idea that there is no such thing as a truly worthless person. If you've felt like this, how did you change your own mind about yourself? How did you come to believe that you were inherently worthy and deserving of life itself?
My first 18 years were spent with extremely miserable people who told me over and over that I did not deserve to be happy or successful because I ruined their lives by being born. They were always quick to remind me that as long as they were miserable, they were going to make sure I was miserable, too... and they never stopped being miserable, because I was the root of their misery and I never went away. I used to think they were trying to make me kill myself so they could get rid of me once and for all while avoiding the kind of responsibility that would come from having done so themselves. Fair play, I guess; I know my ill-timed arrival did actually ruin their lives, that's not up for debate, but at 32, enough time has passed that I really want to stop holding myself wholly responsible for a decision that was made (i.e. not to terminate the pregnancy) when I was still a clump of cells. It just feels inextricable from my knowledge of myself as a human being. How can you grow when your roots are so rotten?
I'm specifically not looking for ways to love or even like myself; I know myself well enough to understand that's probably not in the cards for me. But I want to stop wanting to literally destroy myself. I want to stop daydreaming about erasing myself from the face of the earth and only ever finding comfort in the notion that no one will remember me after I'm gone. I want to stop telling myself out loud that I'm a worthless piece of trash every time I look in the mirror. I want to stop forcing myself to suffer. I want to be able to tolerate the idea of letting myself have any kind of future at all. I want to be able to be appropriately grateful for my incredible luck and good fortune without feeling like I've done something wrong by possessing it.
If you asked me to name one good or redeemable thing about myself, I wouldn't be able to give you an answer. If someone tells me they love or even like me, I just feel weirdly sorry for them. I don't feel any compassion or hope for myself, just frustration and disgust. So I'm always stumbling, I never feel secure or stable or safe, and I can't even get upset enough to do something about it because I see myself as a walking pile of garbage that doesn't deserve peace or happiness -- taking time to work on my own bullshit seems especially myopic and stupid when there are so many good, worthy people who are suffering so much more than I am, and I have always preferred to use my limited energy to help them instead. I don't know how to break the cycle, it's like a snake eating its own tail.
I (obviously) do have severe depression that is mostly med-resistant, but my current script is working better than anything else ever has, so I'm hesitant to change it. I have a regular meditation practice, an unbelievably wonderful therapist who specializes in MBCT, a ridiculously amazing chosen family of friends all over the world and a good job and volunteer commitments and a house and a dog and everything I need to survive. I haven't spoken to or interacted with either of my birth parents in many years and it's awesome. But I still feel, in the marrow of my bones, that I do not deserve anything good (or even OK) and furthermore that any scrap of not-awfulness can and will be taken away as soon as I come to rely on it.
This is something I've struggled with since I was old enough to think, so I'm not expecting anything to change overnight, but if you've had the same struggles with overwhelming self-hatred that springs from the innermost core of your consciousness, can you suggest some of the tactics, ideas, habits, books, therapeutic modalities, etc. that have pulled you out of the rut? I saw these previouslies but the OPs' perspectives feel very different from mine.
Thanks so much, AskMe. Much love to everyone who's in the same boat. Happy new year.
My first 18 years were spent with extremely miserable people who told me over and over that I did not deserve to be happy or successful because I ruined their lives by being born. They were always quick to remind me that as long as they were miserable, they were going to make sure I was miserable, too... and they never stopped being miserable, because I was the root of their misery and I never went away. I used to think they were trying to make me kill myself so they could get rid of me once and for all while avoiding the kind of responsibility that would come from having done so themselves. Fair play, I guess; I know my ill-timed arrival did actually ruin their lives, that's not up for debate, but at 32, enough time has passed that I really want to stop holding myself wholly responsible for a decision that was made (i.e. not to terminate the pregnancy) when I was still a clump of cells. It just feels inextricable from my knowledge of myself as a human being. How can you grow when your roots are so rotten?
I'm specifically not looking for ways to love or even like myself; I know myself well enough to understand that's probably not in the cards for me. But I want to stop wanting to literally destroy myself. I want to stop daydreaming about erasing myself from the face of the earth and only ever finding comfort in the notion that no one will remember me after I'm gone. I want to stop telling myself out loud that I'm a worthless piece of trash every time I look in the mirror. I want to stop forcing myself to suffer. I want to be able to tolerate the idea of letting myself have any kind of future at all. I want to be able to be appropriately grateful for my incredible luck and good fortune without feeling like I've done something wrong by possessing it.
If you asked me to name one good or redeemable thing about myself, I wouldn't be able to give you an answer. If someone tells me they love or even like me, I just feel weirdly sorry for them. I don't feel any compassion or hope for myself, just frustration and disgust. So I'm always stumbling, I never feel secure or stable or safe, and I can't even get upset enough to do something about it because I see myself as a walking pile of garbage that doesn't deserve peace or happiness -- taking time to work on my own bullshit seems especially myopic and stupid when there are so many good, worthy people who are suffering so much more than I am, and I have always preferred to use my limited energy to help them instead. I don't know how to break the cycle, it's like a snake eating its own tail.
I (obviously) do have severe depression that is mostly med-resistant, but my current script is working better than anything else ever has, so I'm hesitant to change it. I have a regular meditation practice, an unbelievably wonderful therapist who specializes in MBCT, a ridiculously amazing chosen family of friends all over the world and a good job and volunteer commitments and a house and a dog and everything I need to survive. I haven't spoken to or interacted with either of my birth parents in many years and it's awesome. But I still feel, in the marrow of my bones, that I do not deserve anything good (or even OK) and furthermore that any scrap of not-awfulness can and will be taken away as soon as I come to rely on it.
This is something I've struggled with since I was old enough to think, so I'm not expecting anything to change overnight, but if you've had the same struggles with overwhelming self-hatred that springs from the innermost core of your consciousness, can you suggest some of the tactics, ideas, habits, books, therapeutic modalities, etc. that have pulled you out of the rut? I saw these previouslies but the OPs' perspectives feel very different from mine.
Thanks so much, AskMe. Much love to everyone who's in the same boat. Happy new year.
Take all your internalized hatred, and direct it outward at those who deserve it. The people who hurt you so badly that you've come to despise yourself are your enemies, and hating them will give you the strength you need to fight your way free of their influence and improve your life.
Remember this: you are not obligated to justify your continued existence. If anybody tells you otherwise, send them my way. My sledgehammer and I will be waiting; we haven't had a good excuse to indulge in gratuitous violence in years.
posted by starbreaker at 9:39 AM on December 31, 2014 [6 favorites]
Remember this: you are not obligated to justify your continued existence. If anybody tells you otherwise, send them my way. My sledgehammer and I will be waiting; we haven't had a good excuse to indulge in gratuitous violence in years.
posted by starbreaker at 9:39 AM on December 31, 2014 [6 favorites]
Part of learning to love and value yourself is recognizing the inherent value in all human beings. A good way to get out of your head and practice this is engaging in community service that puts you in touch with people who are less fortunate than you. I volunteer at a free clinic, but there are lots of opportunities around that may suit your interests or abilities.
posted by telegraph at 9:44 AM on December 31, 2014 [3 favorites]
posted by telegraph at 9:44 AM on December 31, 2014 [3 favorites]
From my understanding it's possible to change this. Unfortunately it's going to take work and time.
One technique you might find helpful is everyday to write down three things you did today and way they are proof of a good quality. Such as "bought a gift for an unhappy friend - I am thoughtful" or "solved a problem at work - I am good at problem solving." They don't have to be anything huge - there just has to be three.
The other mantra to go with this "fake it until you feel it." As you mentioned your gut reaction is to reject positive qualities about yourself. But right them down anyway even if you feel they are "lies."
(and yes this idea is on my 'I should do this...' list)
posted by Erberus at 9:47 AM on December 31, 2014 [4 favorites]
One technique you might find helpful is everyday to write down three things you did today and way they are proof of a good quality. Such as "bought a gift for an unhappy friend - I am thoughtful" or "solved a problem at work - I am good at problem solving." They don't have to be anything huge - there just has to be three.
The other mantra to go with this "fake it until you feel it." As you mentioned your gut reaction is to reject positive qualities about yourself. But right them down anyway even if you feel they are "lies."
(and yes this idea is on my 'I should do this...' list)
posted by Erberus at 9:47 AM on December 31, 2014 [4 favorites]
Well, personally, I feel that you're a wonderful person with many many outstanding qualities and we usually seem to have a pretty good time together, so maybe you just need to hang out with me more often. : )
posted by Fister Roboto at 9:49 AM on December 31, 2014 [11 favorites]
posted by Fister Roboto at 9:49 AM on December 31, 2014 [11 favorites]
What does "deserve" even mean? Who decides?
Kittens are adorable, but what good are they? If they make people feel happy, do those people "deserve" happiness? Why? Because they make still other people happy? Because they build something -- but use valuable natural resources in the process? Because they build more people? Because they are pretty to look at?
No one deserves anything. We're just lucky that most of us have an intrinsic desire to please others.
posted by amtho at 9:51 AM on December 31, 2014 [4 favorites]
Kittens are adorable, but what good are they? If they make people feel happy, do those people "deserve" happiness? Why? Because they make still other people happy? Because they build something -- but use valuable natural resources in the process? Because they build more people? Because they are pretty to look at?
No one deserves anything. We're just lucky that most of us have an intrinsic desire to please others.
posted by amtho at 9:51 AM on December 31, 2014 [4 favorites]
I always liked that line from Desiderata:
You are a child of the universe, no less than the trees and the stars;
you have a right to be here.
posted by mochapickle at 9:57 AM on December 31, 2014 [33 favorites]
You are a child of the universe, no less than the trees and the stars;
you have a right to be here.
posted by mochapickle at 9:57 AM on December 31, 2014 [33 favorites]
I read about a study a while ago that indicated that "positive thinking" or mantras tend to backfire when we don't already believe them; if someone hates themself and tries to force thoughts like "I love everything about myself!", they generally then argue with the positive thought ("No, I don't, I really hate everything about myself") in ways that actually reinforce the negative thoughts.
The recommendation was instead to come up with thoughts that challenge the negative belief but are believable. For me, it's generally some form of "I'm getting better at..." So when I notice an automatic negative thought about how awful I am at X, I try to stop and think, "No, I'm getting better at X." I've found that it also helps me see myself as a work-in-progress rather than always and forever one type of person.
I don't know what kind of meditation you're doing, but I've also found it helpful to focus on meditation traditions that emphasize how our sense of ourselves as stable unchanging beings is an illusion, because it once again opens up much more of a possibility for change and much less judgment about whatever's happening in the moment. Going to Pieces without Falling Apart was a book that helped me a lot with that concept.
posted by jaguar at 10:04 AM on December 31, 2014 [24 favorites]
The recommendation was instead to come up with thoughts that challenge the negative belief but are believable. For me, it's generally some form of "I'm getting better at..." So when I notice an automatic negative thought about how awful I am at X, I try to stop and think, "No, I'm getting better at X." I've found that it also helps me see myself as a work-in-progress rather than always and forever one type of person.
I don't know what kind of meditation you're doing, but I've also found it helpful to focus on meditation traditions that emphasize how our sense of ourselves as stable unchanging beings is an illusion, because it once again opens up much more of a possibility for change and much less judgment about whatever's happening in the moment. Going to Pieces without Falling Apart was a book that helped me a lot with that concept.
posted by jaguar at 10:04 AM on December 31, 2014 [24 favorites]
I think you're using all the best techniques. They just take time. I don't know if you've journaled in the past, but comparing my current journals to stuff I wrote long ago is just shocking in terms of how bad things used to be and how much progress I've made, although so gradually that sometimes I don't notice it.
For me, it's probably changing my self-talk that makes the biggest difference. When you find yourself mentally saying "I am..." or "I believe I am...," push back on the idea that those thoughts are coming from within you. They were planted in you. I mean, sure they've taken root, and they're some kind of ugly kudzu that grows fast and keeps coming back, but you just have to be hardworking and consistent about digging it out. Rephrase it as "you are..." or "my parent believes I am..." so that you--the real you--can argue back.
Question for you: why did you find yourself a good therapist and keep going to your appointments? Why did you get a dog, and put together a chosen family? Why did you write this ask, seeking to relieve some of your suffering? Maybe because you like yourself a little bit?
posted by Bentobox Humperdinck at 10:05 AM on December 31, 2014 [1 favorite]
For me, it's probably changing my self-talk that makes the biggest difference. When you find yourself mentally saying "I am..." or "I believe I am...," push back on the idea that those thoughts are coming from within you. They were planted in you. I mean, sure they've taken root, and they're some kind of ugly kudzu that grows fast and keeps coming back, but you just have to be hardworking and consistent about digging it out. Rephrase it as "you are..." or "my parent believes I am..." so that you--the real you--can argue back.
Question for you: why did you find yourself a good therapist and keep going to your appointments? Why did you get a dog, and put together a chosen family? Why did you write this ask, seeking to relieve some of your suffering? Maybe because you like yourself a little bit?
posted by Bentobox Humperdinck at 10:05 AM on December 31, 2014 [1 favorite]
I'm sure you have heard this before and will probably hear it again.
It used to annoy me to hear it.
Run.
I don't know why and I don't know how but running leveled me in a way nothing else ever did or could.
Running didn't fix the problems in my life or my self but it did give me the space to be able to breath.
posted by srboisvert at 10:08 AM on December 31, 2014 [11 favorites]
It used to annoy me to hear it.
Run.
I don't know why and I don't know how but running leveled me in a way nothing else ever did or could.
Running didn't fix the problems in my life or my self but it did give me the space to be able to breath.
posted by srboisvert at 10:08 AM on December 31, 2014 [11 favorites]
But I still feel, in the marrow of my bones, that I do not deserve anything good (or even OK) and furthermore that any scrap of not-awfulness can and will be taken away as soon as I come to rely on it.
Perhaps one first step is in recognizing this obvious lie for the lie that it is: your life and all of its blessings remain, despite this firm and false belief of yours. You do already rely on them, and yet they remain. Anything can be taken from us, yes, but it is taken by the nature of the universe, not by our inherent lack of worth. The universe is impersonal; it does not punish YOU, it merely does its thing and we all, sometimes, suffer, and we all, sometimes, rejoice at the results.
posted by We put our faith in Blast Hardcheese at 10:08 AM on December 31, 2014 [5 favorites]
Perhaps one first step is in recognizing this obvious lie for the lie that it is: your life and all of its blessings remain, despite this firm and false belief of yours. You do already rely on them, and yet they remain. Anything can be taken from us, yes, but it is taken by the nature of the universe, not by our inherent lack of worth. The universe is impersonal; it does not punish YOU, it merely does its thing and we all, sometimes, suffer, and we all, sometimes, rejoice at the results.
posted by We put our faith in Blast Hardcheese at 10:08 AM on December 31, 2014 [5 favorites]
I don't know if any of these things will work for you, because I feel like I have probably hated myself less than you hate yourself. But I do recognize the whole "you poor sucker, why would anyone like me" feeling and the "someday I will be dead and all this will stop, hooray" feeling.
1. I found talk therapy - just talking until I was done - immensely helpful. Basically, we did not do any CBT/mindfulness stuff, although that was what my therapist specialized in. I just told my therapist the whole sorry story, over and over, until I was starting to feel done. Partly, I got along well with my therapist and felt like I could trust their judgment; somehow I felt that when I had been heard by my therapist there really was a sort of independent witness to my life and it wasn't just me being crazy and whiny. I don't even know why it worked, but just telling the whole thing in detail over the course of about two years really made me hate myself a lot less.
2. I have a few magic phrases that really help me because I believe them. "Even if I am stupid and awful, I still have to get up in the morning so there's no reason for me to seek out experiences that make me feel bad" is one of them. I feel like I have been able to get around the whole question of my stupidness and awfulness - at least some of the time - by saying that I have to get through this day, today, and anything (my own thoughts, other people) which is making me feel like I am not equal to the day is not doing me any favors and I don't have to listen to it. Basically, I try to remind myself that my primary problem is not Deciding Whether I Am Terrible or Making Myself A Worthwhile Person; it's getting through my day effectively. And that helps me to silence some of the thoughts.
3. Concentrating really hard on pleasant physical feelings helps me - I find that I can lie in bed and focus on how I am warm and the cat is there and I have a book to read and just sort of table the question of whether I am a worthwhile person or not. I don't try to decide it, I just try to ignore it.
4. I have also found that an aggressively anti-humanist philosophy helps. I look around at the world and it's so, so awful, but when I think about how there is no unified subject and human beings are not special and someday we will die out and the stars and planets and things will still exist, just without people, that really helps. I find that when I stop thinking about the universe in moral terms it helps me to not care so much, because I no longer have to blame myself or others. I mean, I do blame people and myself often enough, but just as a visualization exercise, the anti-humanism is really soothing.
posted by Frowner at 10:13 AM on December 31, 2014 [12 favorites]
1. I found talk therapy - just talking until I was done - immensely helpful. Basically, we did not do any CBT/mindfulness stuff, although that was what my therapist specialized in. I just told my therapist the whole sorry story, over and over, until I was starting to feel done. Partly, I got along well with my therapist and felt like I could trust their judgment; somehow I felt that when I had been heard by my therapist there really was a sort of independent witness to my life and it wasn't just me being crazy and whiny. I don't even know why it worked, but just telling the whole thing in detail over the course of about two years really made me hate myself a lot less.
2. I have a few magic phrases that really help me because I believe them. "Even if I am stupid and awful, I still have to get up in the morning so there's no reason for me to seek out experiences that make me feel bad" is one of them. I feel like I have been able to get around the whole question of my stupidness and awfulness - at least some of the time - by saying that I have to get through this day, today, and anything (my own thoughts, other people) which is making me feel like I am not equal to the day is not doing me any favors and I don't have to listen to it. Basically, I try to remind myself that my primary problem is not Deciding Whether I Am Terrible or Making Myself A Worthwhile Person; it's getting through my day effectively. And that helps me to silence some of the thoughts.
3. Concentrating really hard on pleasant physical feelings helps me - I find that I can lie in bed and focus on how I am warm and the cat is there and I have a book to read and just sort of table the question of whether I am a worthwhile person or not. I don't try to decide it, I just try to ignore it.
4. I have also found that an aggressively anti-humanist philosophy helps. I look around at the world and it's so, so awful, but when I think about how there is no unified subject and human beings are not special and someday we will die out and the stars and planets and things will still exist, just without people, that really helps. I find that when I stop thinking about the universe in moral terms it helps me to not care so much, because I no longer have to blame myself or others. I mean, I do blame people and myself often enough, but just as a visualization exercise, the anti-humanism is really soothing.
posted by Frowner at 10:13 AM on December 31, 2014 [12 favorites]
I don't like CBT for many things, but I've found CBT tools helpful in beating back the self loathing.
When you look in the mirror, if you can't find something nice to say, borrow something a friend said. Has a friend said you have nice eyes or you were kind to them? When you catch yourself thinking hateful things, firmly counter with "my friend, who is cool, said X nice thing about me". I found that eventually I could say kinder things to my own reflection and self instead of relying on what a friend had told me, but that falling back on friends' kind words can help when we have none for ourselves. The point is not to Believe the friend (because of course then we just argue with ourselves), it's to replace the hateful voice with a new, more humane voice.
Similarly, when you find yourself thinking about not being worthy of this life, you don't have to argue otherwise with yourself. Instead repeat some of the good things you've noted above, like, "I'm working on it with a good therapist" or "I try to help others who are suffering" or, (I'd add!) "I contribute good things to ask.metafilter.com to help people there". It breaks the chain of negative thoughts, and on good days it can distract you to doing a kindness for someone else (like making a compassionate comment on askme!), which is always nicer.
posted by ldthomps at 10:14 AM on December 31, 2014 [3 favorites]
When you look in the mirror, if you can't find something nice to say, borrow something a friend said. Has a friend said you have nice eyes or you were kind to them? When you catch yourself thinking hateful things, firmly counter with "my friend, who is cool, said X nice thing about me". I found that eventually I could say kinder things to my own reflection and self instead of relying on what a friend had told me, but that falling back on friends' kind words can help when we have none for ourselves. The point is not to Believe the friend (because of course then we just argue with ourselves), it's to replace the hateful voice with a new, more humane voice.
Similarly, when you find yourself thinking about not being worthy of this life, you don't have to argue otherwise with yourself. Instead repeat some of the good things you've noted above, like, "I'm working on it with a good therapist" or "I try to help others who are suffering" or, (I'd add!) "I contribute good things to ask.metafilter.com to help people there". It breaks the chain of negative thoughts, and on good days it can distract you to doing a kindness for someone else (like making a compassionate comment on askme!), which is always nicer.
posted by ldthomps at 10:14 AM on December 31, 2014 [3 favorites]
Start small. Instead of telling yourself that you're a worthless piece of trash every time you look in the mirror, tell yourself that you're an eminently worthwhile, good person. Feel free to do it with as much eye-rolling and sarcasm as you want. Even if you tell yourself you're worthless, tell yourself you're worthwhile right afterwards. Over time, you'll start to believe it. Eventually, it will start to sink in. It did for me, anyway. At the very least, I stopped abusing myself quite so much, which felt much better.
Something else that worked for me was taking a good hard look at what my brain was saying to me. When I'd have the thought "I can't do X" float through my head, I'd look for ways to learn how to do X. It might have been taking a class in X, or talking to someone who knew how to do X, and afterwards reminding myself that while I didn't know right there and then how to do X, I could and did learn how to do it. The next time I thought "I can't do Y", I'd remind myself of the time I thought that about X, but I managed to learn how to do it and that I could probably learn how to do Y too.
Consider that while you might lose the battle, you will, eventually, win the war. Your mental programming can be re-encoded just like a computer's can. The brain is a marvellously adaptive organ and it can absolutely learn new ways of thinking.
posted by Solomon at 10:14 AM on December 31, 2014 [1 favorite]
Something else that worked for me was taking a good hard look at what my brain was saying to me. When I'd have the thought "I can't do X" float through my head, I'd look for ways to learn how to do X. It might have been taking a class in X, or talking to someone who knew how to do X, and afterwards reminding myself that while I didn't know right there and then how to do X, I could and did learn how to do it. The next time I thought "I can't do Y", I'd remind myself of the time I thought that about X, but I managed to learn how to do it and that I could probably learn how to do Y too.
Consider that while you might lose the battle, you will, eventually, win the war. Your mental programming can be re-encoded just like a computer's can. The brain is a marvellously adaptive organ and it can absolutely learn new ways of thinking.
posted by Solomon at 10:14 AM on December 31, 2014 [1 favorite]
I would also say that if you're helping other people or other creatures, you simply cannot be worthless. By definition, it's not possible -- your actions are worth something to those people and those creatures.
posted by jaguar at 10:16 AM on December 31, 2014 [7 favorites]
posted by jaguar at 10:16 AM on December 31, 2014 [7 favorites]
One small thing I do that helps a lot is that I try to visualize my self-hate and see it something apart from me. The way mine works is that I'm usually toodling along, feeling like everything is basically okay, and then - whoosh - the maelstrom of self-loathing descends and flattens me, and I surface and realize I've spent days mentally shredding myself to pieces and tearing myself apart. So now I actually picture my self-hate as a maelstrom - a storm of black clouds that washes in from the horizon and lands on me, and the clouds are filled with knives. Melodramatic, yes, but when I picture myself cowering beneath an actual storm and I have sympathy for myself. I'm on my own side. And this helps me do what I need to do to get through the worst of it (meditate, exercise, go to therapy, let the ugly thoughts go).
I really love Adrienne Rich's poem Storm Warnings, especially the lines, "These are the things we have learned to do/Who live in troubled regions," in the way that it captures that sense of the almost sublime terror you can feel in the face of your ugliest emotional weather, and the pragmatic, small, lovely things you can do to survive.
posted by pretentious illiterate at 10:19 AM on December 31, 2014 [11 favorites]
I really love Adrienne Rich's poem Storm Warnings, especially the lines, "These are the things we have learned to do/Who live in troubled regions," in the way that it captures that sense of the almost sublime terror you can feel in the face of your ugliest emotional weather, and the pragmatic, small, lovely things you can do to survive.
posted by pretentious illiterate at 10:19 AM on December 31, 2014 [11 favorites]
Oh man. I hope I can express this in a helpful way. I went through a lot of what you have expressed so well here. And I did The Things: Physical activity, decent food, therapy, kinder thoughts, meaningful contribution.
One day I was down at the lake by my house and I realized...the lake could never be taken away from me. I could be the poorest of the poor and have to walk down and sit on a beach in rags; I could have destroyed everything and lied and thieved, anything. But the sun would rise over the water and the sand would feel warm and the air would smell the same.
It turned out that for me the self loathing meets self esteem equals happiness equation was off. I hated myself for being helpless and deprived of joy. And once I got it, to the core, that the beach -- insert metaphor here but for me it really is the beach too -- was both mine and not mine no matter what, there is no deserving equation out there -- my life became my own and not the past's to the same degree.
I would try to spend a little time every week finding your beach. Libraries, art, nature, breath, books, woodworking...that thing that is just there for you.
I hope that helps.
posted by warriorqueen at 10:22 AM on December 31, 2014 [24 favorites]
One day I was down at the lake by my house and I realized...the lake could never be taken away from me. I could be the poorest of the poor and have to walk down and sit on a beach in rags; I could have destroyed everything and lied and thieved, anything. But the sun would rise over the water and the sand would feel warm and the air would smell the same.
It turned out that for me the self loathing meets self esteem equals happiness equation was off. I hated myself for being helpless and deprived of joy. And once I got it, to the core, that the beach -- insert metaphor here but for me it really is the beach too -- was both mine and not mine no matter what, there is no deserving equation out there -- my life became my own and not the past's to the same degree.
I would try to spend a little time every week finding your beach. Libraries, art, nature, breath, books, woodworking...that thing that is just there for you.
I hope that helps.
posted by warriorqueen at 10:22 AM on December 31, 2014 [24 favorites]
Faking it 'til you make it is an entirely reasonable technique. Now, as someone who has also been lonely and dealt with depression, I know that this could describe large parts of my life already.
In your post, I saw about 85 different descriptions of how awful you think you are. Your first task could be trying to stop saying those things, or at least reducing their frequency. Yeah, you wanted to show us how bad things are, but then you kept slipping them in over and over again. That's not necessary.
I know how invalidating it can feel for someone to tell you to change the language you use to describe your own self. But I also feel like changing this kind of pattern could help you get into other patterns that are more positive (or at least not actively negative).
Also, fuck anyone who says that a kid ruined their lives. The kid may have added complications and all that, but it was your parents' choice to have sex, your parents' choice to keep gestating you, your parents' choice to keep taking care of you, and your parents' choice to be assholes. Sure, they had difficult lives that probably made it really hard NOT to make certain choices. But nobody has to be an asshole. Period.
My own mom (this is getting to be my new refrain here) told me that she felt like a failure because I had free will. What in the world do you do with information like that? There's nothing TO do.
The best advice I ever got was from my aunt, who is a therapist. I was a teenager and was complaining in great detail about some slight from my parents. "Suppose they actually DO love your brother more than you," she said. "What the fuck are you going to do about it?" Because obviously there was nothing TO do.
So I'm not saying life is all peaches and cream, but I have found so much freedom in just saying, "You know what? That part of life is a flaming pile of dog shit. It just IS. There's nothing I can do about it; it's just a fact." And then I move on to something else.
Finally: pity is pretty great when you don't know how to deal with difficult people and situations. Not to trivialize things, but it's sort of the "bless your heart" backhanded comment that acknowledges the difficulty of the situation while allowing you to say, "I'm not down there. They put themselves in that spot through their own actions, and then they chose to stay there." You can feel a bit uplifted, and eventually things might even fall into a pattern of compassion. Either way, it acknowledges the hurt without perpetuating it.
posted by Madamina at 10:22 AM on December 31, 2014 [6 favorites]
In your post, I saw about 85 different descriptions of how awful you think you are. Your first task could be trying to stop saying those things, or at least reducing their frequency. Yeah, you wanted to show us how bad things are, but then you kept slipping them in over and over again. That's not necessary.
I know how invalidating it can feel for someone to tell you to change the language you use to describe your own self. But I also feel like changing this kind of pattern could help you get into other patterns that are more positive (or at least not actively negative).
Also, fuck anyone who says that a kid ruined their lives. The kid may have added complications and all that, but it was your parents' choice to have sex, your parents' choice to keep gestating you, your parents' choice to keep taking care of you, and your parents' choice to be assholes. Sure, they had difficult lives that probably made it really hard NOT to make certain choices. But nobody has to be an asshole. Period.
My own mom (this is getting to be my new refrain here) told me that she felt like a failure because I had free will. What in the world do you do with information like that? There's nothing TO do.
The best advice I ever got was from my aunt, who is a therapist. I was a teenager and was complaining in great detail about some slight from my parents. "Suppose they actually DO love your brother more than you," she said. "What the fuck are you going to do about it?" Because obviously there was nothing TO do.
So I'm not saying life is all peaches and cream, but I have found so much freedom in just saying, "You know what? That part of life is a flaming pile of dog shit. It just IS. There's nothing I can do about it; it's just a fact." And then I move on to something else.
Finally: pity is pretty great when you don't know how to deal with difficult people and situations. Not to trivialize things, but it's sort of the "bless your heart" backhanded comment that acknowledges the difficulty of the situation while allowing you to say, "I'm not down there. They put themselves in that spot through their own actions, and then they chose to stay there." You can feel a bit uplifted, and eventually things might even fall into a pattern of compassion. Either way, it acknowledges the hurt without perpetuating it.
posted by Madamina at 10:22 AM on December 31, 2014 [6 favorites]
Oh, divinedbyradio, I'm so sorry you have this incredibly difficult burden to deal with. How absolutely shitty to have to deal with these feelings and thoughts all the time. I don't know if I can offer any good advice, but I wanted to say that I was surprised to get to the end of the question and see your username. I regularly notice and appreciate your comments on here and am impressed with how articulate, insightful and compassionate they are. I would never have guessed you are making those compassionate comments from underneath a steamroller of self-hate.
So for what it's worth: you are managing not only to deal with all that constant crap in your head without falling apart, but also to contribute something valuable to others despite it. I'm sure this also must be true in other parts of your life beyond just Metafilter comments. That is pretty damn impressive.
just one other thought to share:
taking time to work on my own bullshit seems especially myopic and stupid when there are so many good, worthy people who are suffering so much more than I am, and I have always preferred to use my limited energy to help them instead.
Fighting past all the self-hate every day must use up a lot of energy. Reducing the self-hate will take energy too, but then you'll have more freed up to put to good use helping others. The fortunate things in your life allow you to be stable enough to help other people. If you can get even more stable and in a good place, you'll be able to help others even more.
I'm sorry I don't have more advice for you, but you're strong and smart for wanting to make this better, and I wish you success.
posted by aka burlap at 10:27 AM on December 31, 2014 [20 favorites]
So for what it's worth: you are managing not only to deal with all that constant crap in your head without falling apart, but also to contribute something valuable to others despite it. I'm sure this also must be true in other parts of your life beyond just Metafilter comments. That is pretty damn impressive.
just one other thought to share:
taking time to work on my own bullshit seems especially myopic and stupid when there are so many good, worthy people who are suffering so much more than I am, and I have always preferred to use my limited energy to help them instead.
Fighting past all the self-hate every day must use up a lot of energy. Reducing the self-hate will take energy too, but then you'll have more freed up to put to good use helping others. The fortunate things in your life allow you to be stable enough to help other people. If you can get even more stable and in a good place, you'll be able to help others even more.
I'm sorry I don't have more advice for you, but you're strong and smart for wanting to make this better, and I wish you success.
posted by aka burlap at 10:27 AM on December 31, 2014 [20 favorites]
I'm so sorry you're dealing with this kind of crushing shame. I ardently wish I could tell you that one magic thing that will take it away, but I have to say that even in my mid-fifties, I can be felled by it. I decompensate in the worst way possible, which leads to more shame, and the cycle starts all over. Eventually, usually in a few days, I come back to some reasonable semblance of a functioning adult, because something in me keeps me going. There are two things that seem to help. One is the thought that if the pain really does get unbearable, there is an option of self-destruction. No one is supposed to say this but there it is anyway. But that thought invariably leads to the next one, which is that there is a big difference between the pain I'm feeling, and the "me" that is feeling it, who deserves compassion and kindness. I think about my little six- or seven-year-old self and realize that little kid is hurt and needs comfort and loving kindness. Just as would any kid who's being treated badly.
I still hope to find that magic bullet someday, and I suspect it has to do with accessing that which is beyond my ego...my little tiny view of the world around me. It happened one time for a few weeks in my twenties. It coincided with a time that I lost everything I had, literally. Although I haven't been able to recover that state of grace yet, I "knew" in feeling way, not a thinking way, that this place, or state of being, is always available to me, it's just behind a veil of my own making. And the only thing to do in life is to serve. So all I can tell you is that there is a divined by radio standing beside the one in pain, and that has so very much to give. I wish you continued luck in life, work, and friends and offer you the idea that you are not your pain. The real you is there, anytime, and is full of love.
posted by Gusaroo at 10:32 AM on December 31, 2014 [6 favorites]
I still hope to find that magic bullet someday, and I suspect it has to do with accessing that which is beyond my ego...my little tiny view of the world around me. It happened one time for a few weeks in my twenties. It coincided with a time that I lost everything I had, literally. Although I haven't been able to recover that state of grace yet, I "knew" in feeling way, not a thinking way, that this place, or state of being, is always available to me, it's just behind a veil of my own making. And the only thing to do in life is to serve. So all I can tell you is that there is a divined by radio standing beside the one in pain, and that has so very much to give. I wish you continued luck in life, work, and friends and offer you the idea that you are not your pain. The real you is there, anytime, and is full of love.
posted by Gusaroo at 10:32 AM on December 31, 2014 [6 favorites]
There are support groups for adult survivors of child abuse.
The recommendation was instead to come up with thoughts that challenge the negative belief but are believable.
Very true. Can you come up with a mantra that doesn't feel fake but feels true? Like "I'm no worse than most people" or "I try harder than a lot of people" or something?
I wish you had had an adult in your life when you were a kid who stopped your parents from treating you the way they did -- who, in fact, had intervened in the moments when the bad treatment was flying. As an adult, you can invent that person and station them in your head. When the attacks start coming, that person can gently say to the internal voice "hey hey hey, now, let's not have any of that," and then turn to you and say with a smile and wink "don't flatter yourself now; you're no worse than all the rest of us," or whatever works for you.
posted by salvia at 10:33 AM on December 31, 2014 [3 favorites]
The recommendation was instead to come up with thoughts that challenge the negative belief but are believable.
Very true. Can you come up with a mantra that doesn't feel fake but feels true? Like "I'm no worse than most people" or "I try harder than a lot of people" or something?
I wish you had had an adult in your life when you were a kid who stopped your parents from treating you the way they did -- who, in fact, had intervened in the moments when the bad treatment was flying. As an adult, you can invent that person and station them in your head. When the attacks start coming, that person can gently say to the internal voice "hey hey hey, now, let's not have any of that," and then turn to you and say with a smile and wink "don't flatter yourself now; you're no worse than all the rest of us," or whatever works for you.
posted by salvia at 10:33 AM on December 31, 2014 [3 favorites]
It sounds a bit weird and out there but the three things that have been most healing for me are spending time with art, nature and dogs.
posted by Middlemarch at 10:43 AM on December 31, 2014 [3 favorites]
posted by Middlemarch at 10:43 AM on December 31, 2014 [3 favorites]
I just want to support you, because I know how it feels. I was the opposite of what my parents wanted! I was like the anti-ideal child. Ha. They hated me! And still do.
posted by Punctual at 10:47 AM on December 31, 2014 [1 favorite]
posted by Punctual at 10:47 AM on December 31, 2014 [1 favorite]
I used to feel more or less the same way. One day I picked up Slaughterhouse Five. Within a year I had read pretty much everything Kurt Vonnegut had ever written, and by that point I was completely sick of Kurt Vonnegut, but I felt a hell of a lot better about myself.
posted by prize bull octorok at 10:58 AM on December 31, 2014 [3 favorites]
posted by prize bull octorok at 10:58 AM on December 31, 2014 [3 favorites]
I don't know what it will mean to you, but I've also noted your contributions here, and have always found them to show insight, empathy, intelligence... I have to assume those belong to you.
Listen to your friends. Why would they waste time with someone they thought wasn't worthwhile? Make a leap of faith that they are saying true things, and love you for good reasons.
I was lucky, too, I didn't get the kind of messages you got from parents, but I did wind up going through a long period of feeling similar things anyway, and I know they burn a deep groove. You have to step outside of that, though, outside of your first-person perspective altogether. Look at the little girl you were, like she was someone else. Did she deserve the treatment she got? Could you really blame her for anything she did or felt in response, then or later? Didn't she do what she had to, to get by?
posted by cotton dress sock at 11:00 AM on December 31, 2014 [3 favorites]
Listen to your friends. Why would they waste time with someone they thought wasn't worthwhile? Make a leap of faith that they are saying true things, and love you for good reasons.
I was lucky, too, I didn't get the kind of messages you got from parents, but I did wind up going through a long period of feeling similar things anyway, and I know they burn a deep groove. You have to step outside of that, though, outside of your first-person perspective altogether. Look at the little girl you were, like she was someone else. Did she deserve the treatment she got? Could you really blame her for anything she did or felt in response, then or later? Didn't she do what she had to, to get by?
posted by cotton dress sock at 11:00 AM on December 31, 2014 [3 favorites]
I know my ill-timed arrival did actually ruin their lives, that's not up for debate,
Because I was sexually abused and then had my first child earlier than I planned, I have spent a whole lot of time thinking about what I frame as "sexual morality." Humans reproduce sexually and sex feels good in order to promote reproduction. Societies and individuals have struggled with how to balance all that and deal with it compassionately, humanely and practically since time immemorial.
My son has always been honestly told he wasn't really planned, I was just trying to have a good time. He has been told he showed up unfashionably early. He has also been told I adore him and I worked really hard at trying to figure out how to be honest with him -- that I didn't want to have kids so early -- without hurting him.
I am so sorry that your parents never rose to the occasion, never really took responsibility for the consequences of their own actions. Your framing seems to indicate they chose to be sex partners and chose to stay together and chose to raise you, but also chose to be utter and complete assholes about it every step of the way.
You were born innocent. You did nothing to get here. Unless your framing is somehow inaccurate: Two people chose to have sex. When that resulted in a child, they chose to keep that child and raise that child together while being abusive every step of the way.
You have no responsibility whatsoever for that choice. None. NONE. NONE. You did nothing at all wrong. You were not there when they made choices that resulted in your existence.
I suggest you start by finding a way to emotionally let go of your sense of responsibility in how miserably they chose to live. They made that choice again and again and again, for many years. They kept getting up and choosing to be assholes, to be ...the only term I can come up with is emotional vampires and that doesn't seem to begin to capture how very emotionally destructive they were to their own child.
My parents were a lot more decent than yours were. But that was basically one of the things I had to do at some point: To let go of feeling like I had some responsibility for them feeling burdened by my existence. They chose to have sex. They chose to keep me. Sex comes with risks for everyone. Rising to the occasion to either find a way to get your needs met such that no child results OR, if a child does result, rising to the occasion to do right by that child is part of the human journey. It is part of living a moral and decent life. It is a growth experience and many people find it gratifying. The children who suffer the consequences when consenting sexually active adults reproduce and then are utterly loathsome towards their progeny have to understand this as a failing not on their own part but on the part of their parents.
That's where I would try to start if I were you. And then maybe find some tear-jerk movies and watch a few of those and begin grieving what you have been through. I watched tear-jerk movies in my twenties for about 2 or 3 years and wailed like a banshee. After that, I stopped being sad all the time.
FWIW, I have positive associations with your mefi name, though I can't say specifically why.
posted by Michele in California at 11:03 AM on December 31, 2014 [4 favorites]
Because I was sexually abused and then had my first child earlier than I planned, I have spent a whole lot of time thinking about what I frame as "sexual morality." Humans reproduce sexually and sex feels good in order to promote reproduction. Societies and individuals have struggled with how to balance all that and deal with it compassionately, humanely and practically since time immemorial.
My son has always been honestly told he wasn't really planned, I was just trying to have a good time. He has been told he showed up unfashionably early. He has also been told I adore him and I worked really hard at trying to figure out how to be honest with him -- that I didn't want to have kids so early -- without hurting him.
I am so sorry that your parents never rose to the occasion, never really took responsibility for the consequences of their own actions. Your framing seems to indicate they chose to be sex partners and chose to stay together and chose to raise you, but also chose to be utter and complete assholes about it every step of the way.
You were born innocent. You did nothing to get here. Unless your framing is somehow inaccurate: Two people chose to have sex. When that resulted in a child, they chose to keep that child and raise that child together while being abusive every step of the way.
You have no responsibility whatsoever for that choice. None. NONE. NONE. You did nothing at all wrong. You were not there when they made choices that resulted in your existence.
I suggest you start by finding a way to emotionally let go of your sense of responsibility in how miserably they chose to live. They made that choice again and again and again, for many years. They kept getting up and choosing to be assholes, to be ...the only term I can come up with is emotional vampires and that doesn't seem to begin to capture how very emotionally destructive they were to their own child.
My parents were a lot more decent than yours were. But that was basically one of the things I had to do at some point: To let go of feeling like I had some responsibility for them feeling burdened by my existence. They chose to have sex. They chose to keep me. Sex comes with risks for everyone. Rising to the occasion to either find a way to get your needs met such that no child results OR, if a child does result, rising to the occasion to do right by that child is part of the human journey. It is part of living a moral and decent life. It is a growth experience and many people find it gratifying. The children who suffer the consequences when consenting sexually active adults reproduce and then are utterly loathsome towards their progeny have to understand this as a failing not on their own part but on the part of their parents.
That's where I would try to start if I were you. And then maybe find some tear-jerk movies and watch a few of those and begin grieving what you have been through. I watched tear-jerk movies in my twenties for about 2 or 3 years and wailed like a banshee. After that, I stopped being sad all the time.
FWIW, I have positive associations with your mefi name, though I can't say specifically why.
posted by Michele in California at 11:03 AM on December 31, 2014 [4 favorites]
You have had a tape in your head for your entire life telling you these awful things about yourself. It's time to change the tape.
Every time you hear the tape start up, you have to actively yank it out. When you hear a negative thought in your head, you have to challenge it. Say, "I'm worthwhile, I'm loved and I'm loveable." Say it as an affirmation anywhere, anytime. Write it 100 times a night. Say it to yourself as you're falling asleep.
At some point your brain can't hold these two contradictory thoughts together, and hopefully, we'll ditch the nasty, evil, lying thoughts clean out of there.
Start treating yourself with love and respect. Buy beautiful clothing, the best soaps and lotions you can afford, eat well, cherish yourself. Again, these physical actions will reinforce the notion that you're physical body is loved and cared for.
Your surroundings should be comforting, warm and inviting. Get rid of broken things, keep your home clean, get things organized. Your home should be a sanctuary, physical evidence of how well loved and cared for you are.
Give lots of compliments, notice and appreciate what others do for you. Say thank you often. When you in turn are complimented, take the compliment. Smile and say, "thank you."
As for the whole, ruined my life thing, what a load of shit! You know who ruined your parents life? Your parents! You had nothing to do with it. They were miserable people before they conceived you, and they were miserable to you, and they're miserable without you. You had nothing to do with anything. You were the focus of their anger, disappointment and frustrations. They are horrible people for doing that to you.
You're not with them because they are terrible humans. They don't deserve to have YOU in their lives.
Be nice to your friends friend. Be kind to yourself. Practice saying nice things to yourself, hear the nice things people say to you. You don't have to believe it today, but keep saying them. I promise, your world will change for the better.
posted by Ruthless Bunny at 11:15 AM on December 31, 2014 [7 favorites]
Every time you hear the tape start up, you have to actively yank it out. When you hear a negative thought in your head, you have to challenge it. Say, "I'm worthwhile, I'm loved and I'm loveable." Say it as an affirmation anywhere, anytime. Write it 100 times a night. Say it to yourself as you're falling asleep.
At some point your brain can't hold these two contradictory thoughts together, and hopefully, we'll ditch the nasty, evil, lying thoughts clean out of there.
Start treating yourself with love and respect. Buy beautiful clothing, the best soaps and lotions you can afford, eat well, cherish yourself. Again, these physical actions will reinforce the notion that you're physical body is loved and cared for.
Your surroundings should be comforting, warm and inviting. Get rid of broken things, keep your home clean, get things organized. Your home should be a sanctuary, physical evidence of how well loved and cared for you are.
Give lots of compliments, notice and appreciate what others do for you. Say thank you often. When you in turn are complimented, take the compliment. Smile and say, "thank you."
As for the whole, ruined my life thing, what a load of shit! You know who ruined your parents life? Your parents! You had nothing to do with it. They were miserable people before they conceived you, and they were miserable to you, and they're miserable without you. You had nothing to do with anything. You were the focus of their anger, disappointment and frustrations. They are horrible people for doing that to you.
You're not with them because they are terrible humans. They don't deserve to have YOU in their lives.
Be nice to your friends friend. Be kind to yourself. Practice saying nice things to yourself, hear the nice things people say to you. You don't have to believe it today, but keep saying them. I promise, your world will change for the better.
posted by Ruthless Bunny at 11:15 AM on December 31, 2014 [7 favorites]
I am so sorry.
My dog is helping me with these feelings. He is so happy to see me and so in love with me even if I accidentally step on his foot or something. I am the best person ever to him and I try to come home and hug him and focus on that love for even just a few seconds.
I wish people loved like dogs.
Also you are very inspiring for trying so hard.
Thank You!
posted by blueberrypicasso at 11:23 AM on December 31, 2014 [2 favorites]
My dog is helping me with these feelings. He is so happy to see me and so in love with me even if I accidentally step on his foot or something. I am the best person ever to him and I try to come home and hug him and focus on that love for even just a few seconds.
I wish people loved like dogs.
Also you are very inspiring for trying so hard.
Thank You!
posted by blueberrypicasso at 11:23 AM on December 31, 2014 [2 favorites]
Fair play, I guess; I know my ill-timed arrival did actually ruin their lives, that's not up for debate
Your ill-timed arrival is nothing you could possibly have chosen to do any different. If your parents fucked up their lives by having you, that's on them, not you, and for them to have flat lied to you about that for years and years is all kinds of indescribably shitty.
YOUR EXISTENCE IS NOT YOUR FAULT.
posted by flabdablet at 11:34 AM on December 31, 2014 [4 favorites]
Your ill-timed arrival is nothing you could possibly have chosen to do any different. If your parents fucked up their lives by having you, that's on them, not you, and for them to have flat lied to you about that for years and years is all kinds of indescribably shitty.
YOUR EXISTENCE IS NOT YOUR FAULT.
posted by flabdablet at 11:34 AM on December 31, 2014 [4 favorites]
Thank you for writing this post. It really touched my heart. I hope you will be able to accept and love yourself sooner than later. When I finally decided to love myself so much of my suffering went away. I wish I had been able to do it at an earlier age. Things happened to the young me and I told myself stories of what that meant. What kind of worthless person I was. Really it was the adults in my life doing what they did. I had nothing to do with it. I did write them letters of forgiveness because I was using the story of what happened to chicken out of living the life I wanted. I destroyed the letters because the people are all dead anyway. I felt a release and was able to put more of it behind me.
Be as kind to yourself as you can. When you are kind to yourself then the lives of the people around you will be made better too. That's a wonderful and amazing thing that is definitely worth pursuing. If you can turn the self talk into something humorous that helps too.
For resources, I like Pema Chodron's CD "Getting Unstuck". If you don't mind a fat, white male monk there is Anjahn Brahm's online talk on the "Four Ways of Letting Go".
posted by goodsearch at 11:36 AM on December 31, 2014 [2 favorites]
Be as kind to yourself as you can. When you are kind to yourself then the lives of the people around you will be made better too. That's a wonderful and amazing thing that is definitely worth pursuing. If you can turn the self talk into something humorous that helps too.
For resources, I like Pema Chodron's CD "Getting Unstuck". If you don't mind a fat, white male monk there is Anjahn Brahm's online talk on the "Four Ways of Letting Go".
posted by goodsearch at 11:36 AM on December 31, 2014 [2 favorites]
taking time to work on my own bullshit seems especially myopic and stupid when there are so many good, worthy people who are suffering so much more than I am, and I have always preferred to use my limited energy to help them instead. I don't know how to break the cycle, it's like a snake eating its own tail.
Putting your own oxygen mask on first will keep you around and useful to those good, worthy people for a lot longer.
posted by flabdablet at 11:38 AM on December 31, 2014 [3 favorites]
Putting your own oxygen mask on first will keep you around and useful to those good, worthy people for a lot longer.
posted by flabdablet at 11:38 AM on December 31, 2014 [3 favorites]
I know my ill-timed arrival did actually ruin their lives
Well, you didn't consciously do anything to bring that about, so it's not fair to blame you for it. You could also argue that it wasn't your arrival that ruined their lives. Lots of people have unplanned babies without their lives being ruined, lots of others have abortions without theirs being ruined. How they reacted to your ill-timed arrival might have ruined your life. Again, you are not responsible for what they did or do.
I find it helpful to think of the part of me that says stuff like that I'm worthless as a sort-of separate thing called my inner critic. I've started keeping a mental journal (may become a written journal at some point), "Shit My Inner Critic Says." Kind of in the spirit of a "weird things kids/parents say" blog. Your inner critic is still going to say nasty things, that's what it does. You won't be able to stop it (or at least I haven't succeeded at that), the next best thing is to not obsess on it when it happens. Your inner critic does not do this because you're really that much worse than other people, it does it because that's what inner critics do.
Your inner critic isn't always right. What inner critics say doesn't necessarily even make sense. I had to have one of my cats put down earlier this week (she had cancer). My inner critic was beating me up, alternately for doing it too soon, and for waiting too long. I realized it had to be one or the other, it can't possibly be both. But my inner critic said both of those things. Yours has been beating you up for ruining your parents' lives, though that makes no logical sense either. If it can be wrong about one thing, it can be wrong about others, too.
posted by Anne Neville at 11:40 AM on December 31, 2014
Well, you didn't consciously do anything to bring that about, so it's not fair to blame you for it. You could also argue that it wasn't your arrival that ruined their lives. Lots of people have unplanned babies without their lives being ruined, lots of others have abortions without theirs being ruined. How they reacted to your ill-timed arrival might have ruined your life. Again, you are not responsible for what they did or do.
I find it helpful to think of the part of me that says stuff like that I'm worthless as a sort-of separate thing called my inner critic. I've started keeping a mental journal (may become a written journal at some point), "Shit My Inner Critic Says." Kind of in the spirit of a "weird things kids/parents say" blog. Your inner critic is still going to say nasty things, that's what it does. You won't be able to stop it (or at least I haven't succeeded at that), the next best thing is to not obsess on it when it happens. Your inner critic does not do this because you're really that much worse than other people, it does it because that's what inner critics do.
Your inner critic isn't always right. What inner critics say doesn't necessarily even make sense. I had to have one of my cats put down earlier this week (she had cancer). My inner critic was beating me up, alternately for doing it too soon, and for waiting too long. I realized it had to be one or the other, it can't possibly be both. But my inner critic said both of those things. Yours has been beating you up for ruining your parents' lives, though that makes no logical sense either. If it can be wrong about one thing, it can be wrong about others, too.
posted by Anne Neville at 11:40 AM on December 31, 2014
There is a book about c-ptsd with surviving to thriving in the title that I can't remember the author of but was eye opening to me about this issue.
Was it Complex PTSD: From Surviving to Thriving by Pete Walker?
posted by Anne Neville at 12:01 PM on December 31, 2014 [2 favorites]
Was it Complex PTSD: From Surviving to Thriving by Pete Walker?
posted by Anne Neville at 12:01 PM on December 31, 2014 [2 favorites]
Something I've found helpful - though it's by no means the right approach for everyone - is having a reliable source of external positive reinforcement. Not in the sense of relying on it instead of building self esteem of my own, but more as a different external perspective which can't be overcome by my brain's dumb "logic".
The person who fills this role in my life is my SO, but it could equally be a friend or non-abusive family member. He does it from a place of loving encouragement, and it generally takes the form of praising me for achievements (in a broad sense) that my perma-depressed brain thinks are way too stupid and inconsequential to be deserving of praise. So a lot of the time, he'll say something nice about a thing that I did and I'll think "but it was stupid and I'm a gigantic weenie nonetheless". And then I'll talk those feelings out with him.
Where I struggled with trying to positively reinforce myself was that as soon as I was done trying to be positive, I still thought I was a worthless idiot, and the "logic"/"fact" of this then convinced even the part of me that had tried to do the positive reinforcement/self-talk in the first place that the positive bit was indeed bullshit and the negative stuff was definitely still "true" and I ended up feeling worse about myself than before. With the reinforcement coming from a loving external perspective, all the negative stuff I believe about myself has to argue with someone who does not ab initio think that I'm the worst, and thus it's much harder for me to get stuck in a self-defeating spiral.
It's working, albeit very very slowly - I will now occasionally acknowledge that I did a good job on something or that I'm not an inherently bad person, and I'm much more willing to go along with the idea that the nice things my partner says about me might be true rather than immediately rejecting them based on I don't deserve/I'm awful/other insecurity.
I have no idea if this would work for others, and it does rely on having a safe and loving person who's willing to provide the encouragement, but I've found it (with another big emphasis on how slow progress has been) much more helpful than any work I've tried to do on my own, which would always inevitably get sabotaged by how much I hate myself and how ingrained that is.
posted by terretu at 12:06 PM on December 31, 2014 [1 favorite]
The person who fills this role in my life is my SO, but it could equally be a friend or non-abusive family member. He does it from a place of loving encouragement, and it generally takes the form of praising me for achievements (in a broad sense) that my perma-depressed brain thinks are way too stupid and inconsequential to be deserving of praise. So a lot of the time, he'll say something nice about a thing that I did and I'll think "but it was stupid and I'm a gigantic weenie nonetheless". And then I'll talk those feelings out with him.
Where I struggled with trying to positively reinforce myself was that as soon as I was done trying to be positive, I still thought I was a worthless idiot, and the "logic"/"fact" of this then convinced even the part of me that had tried to do the positive reinforcement/self-talk in the first place that the positive bit was indeed bullshit and the negative stuff was definitely still "true" and I ended up feeling worse about myself than before. With the reinforcement coming from a loving external perspective, all the negative stuff I believe about myself has to argue with someone who does not ab initio think that I'm the worst, and thus it's much harder for me to get stuck in a self-defeating spiral.
It's working, albeit very very slowly - I will now occasionally acknowledge that I did a good job on something or that I'm not an inherently bad person, and I'm much more willing to go along with the idea that the nice things my partner says about me might be true rather than immediately rejecting them based on I don't deserve/I'm awful/other insecurity.
I have no idea if this would work for others, and it does rely on having a safe and loving person who's willing to provide the encouragement, but I've found it (with another big emphasis on how slow progress has been) much more helpful than any work I've tried to do on my own, which would always inevitably get sabotaged by how much I hate myself and how ingrained that is.
posted by terretu at 12:06 PM on December 31, 2014 [1 favorite]
Whenever you have a bad thought picture it coming from Oscar the Grouch leaning out of his garbage can. And find ways round, rather than trying to fight it; you can't fight yourself because it is you, just an oscar the grouchy part of you. but you can learn to just roll your eyes at it.
'Of course he'd say that. He lives in a literal garbage can.'
posted by Sebmojo at 12:11 PM on December 31, 2014 [7 favorites]
'Of course he'd say that. He lives in a literal garbage can.'
posted by Sebmojo at 12:11 PM on December 31, 2014 [7 favorites]
My heart goes out to you. I hope that just writing that down helped you to exorcise some of the pain.
To quote the poet, we contain multitudes. Proust said it too: each of us is many. And one of the consciousnesses inside you, loudest and clearest, is a child who dearly needs you to care for him/her. Your stronger self has the duty and the heart to slowly, steadily help heal the hurt, however long it takes and however dark the road ahead may be. If you can't help revisiting the past, imagine how in a parallel universe things could have turned out worse, and how you steered clear of that. Set small goals for yourself, and appreciate your success in living up to them. People everywhere are rooting for you, whoever you are.
posted by mmiddle at 12:53 PM on December 31, 2014 [2 favorites]
To quote the poet, we contain multitudes. Proust said it too: each of us is many. And one of the consciousnesses inside you, loudest and clearest, is a child who dearly needs you to care for him/her. Your stronger self has the duty and the heart to slowly, steadily help heal the hurt, however long it takes and however dark the road ahead may be. If you can't help revisiting the past, imagine how in a parallel universe things could have turned out worse, and how you steered clear of that. Set small goals for yourself, and appreciate your success in living up to them. People everywhere are rooting for you, whoever you are.
posted by mmiddle at 12:53 PM on December 31, 2014 [2 favorites]
Hi divined_by_radio. I like you. I've been lurking here for a while and I really appreciate your wealth of knowledge about vegan cooking, and the fact that we have similar tastes in music. I also appreciate your sensible advice about abusive relationships, having been in one myself. It has helped me immensely to read your perspective on this issue. As a former Texan, I applaud you for having the guts to be an outspoken liberal in the Dallas area, which is redder than Mars and almost as alien to people of our mindset. I perk up when I see you've answered a question because I really appreciate your wisdom.
Now, onto what you are doing to work on your self-esteem. It sounds AWESOME. You're in therapy, you're reaching out on Metafilter, you're meditating, and you're functioning as an adult. Yay you! You are beating this shitty low-self-esteem monster. It's going to take some time, but you WILL win.
How do I know? I was you, at 32. I'm 47 now. It has taken a long time to stop hating myself. I worked like you are doing. Years of therapy. Years of self-help books. Years of reaching out to online communities. Years of building families of choice. My self-esteem gradually improved. Celebrate those incremental improvements. One of the biggest things I did was learn about how to avoid entering friendships or relationships with narcissists by recognizing their red flags early on. "Before you diagnose yourself with depression or low self-esteem, first make sure that you are not, in fact, just surrounded by assholes." That's attributed to SF author William Gibson, and it's often quoted for truth. Get those jerks out of your life and don't be afraid to overcorrect by being stricter than you ever thought you could be about what kind of people you allow into your life. I operated under the Geek Fallacy for years, that it wasn't okay to reject anyone "because bullying." However, it IS okay to reject others FOR bullying...or just for making you feel bad whether they mean to or not. Or for any reason that makes sense to you. This is the single biggest thing that helped me increase my self-esteem. Once I got the negative nay-sayers out of my life and only invited positive and warm people in (to the best of my ability, as everyone has bad days etc.) my self-esteem improved. I am now able to deal with the Negative Neils and Nellies of the world without taking their pessimism and put-downs so deeply to heart, but I could not have done that without prior housecleaning.
I've also been helped by MoodGym.com, which teaches you how to identify cognitive distortions, as well as St. John's Wort and turmeric/curcumin. Prescription meds never helped but the natural stuff really seems to. Everyone responds differently to chemicals, but you may want to try something more plant-based if you haven't already.
Can you start seeing yourself the positive way I and others see you? Or do you immediately want to dismiss me as someone who doesn't know what she's talking about because we've never met IRL and I've only seen your online persona? If so, you may want to try a technique my therapist taught me called simply "Thought-Stopping." I scorned it until I actually tried it. It sounded too bootstrappy and judgmental, but I found that it's not. It takes practice and doesn't always work, but it does help. I often find that using puzzles or projects helps, as does imagining my self-critical voice as another entity, like my father when he used to belittle me. It feels good to say, "shut the fuck up, Dad," if I get an intrusive, critical thought that sounds like him.
Your parents are idiots to not appreciate you because you're awesome. Tell that to that little voice when it lashes out to you. Also, the fact that other people might be suffering more than you in no way negates your pain. You are entitled to put yourself first. You can't really help anyone else if you aren't already helped, anyway.
I really think what you're going through now -- the struggle to just be okay with yourself but not expecting to ever love yourself; the search for resources; the listing of all the stuff you are grateful for like friends and your home and self-sufficiency and removal from your godawful parents -- all these things are part of the difficult process of growing to value yourself. Of course you will doubt you ever will heal. Low self-esteem is like a monster in the brain that wants to eat you alive, and it will argue with you all day and insist it will win. That seems like such a typical stage of the journey toward wholeness. You are not going through this alone. I've been where you are and so have many, many others. Sometimes it feels like a slog, but keep on keepin' on. You're getting there.
posted by Beethoven's Sith at 12:56 PM on December 31, 2014 [17 favorites]
Now, onto what you are doing to work on your self-esteem. It sounds AWESOME. You're in therapy, you're reaching out on Metafilter, you're meditating, and you're functioning as an adult. Yay you! You are beating this shitty low-self-esteem monster. It's going to take some time, but you WILL win.
How do I know? I was you, at 32. I'm 47 now. It has taken a long time to stop hating myself. I worked like you are doing. Years of therapy. Years of self-help books. Years of reaching out to online communities. Years of building families of choice. My self-esteem gradually improved. Celebrate those incremental improvements. One of the biggest things I did was learn about how to avoid entering friendships or relationships with narcissists by recognizing their red flags early on. "Before you diagnose yourself with depression or low self-esteem, first make sure that you are not, in fact, just surrounded by assholes." That's attributed to SF author William Gibson, and it's often quoted for truth. Get those jerks out of your life and don't be afraid to overcorrect by being stricter than you ever thought you could be about what kind of people you allow into your life. I operated under the Geek Fallacy for years, that it wasn't okay to reject anyone "because bullying." However, it IS okay to reject others FOR bullying...or just for making you feel bad whether they mean to or not. Or for any reason that makes sense to you. This is the single biggest thing that helped me increase my self-esteem. Once I got the negative nay-sayers out of my life and only invited positive and warm people in (to the best of my ability, as everyone has bad days etc.) my self-esteem improved. I am now able to deal with the Negative Neils and Nellies of the world without taking their pessimism and put-downs so deeply to heart, but I could not have done that without prior housecleaning.
I've also been helped by MoodGym.com, which teaches you how to identify cognitive distortions, as well as St. John's Wort and turmeric/curcumin. Prescription meds never helped but the natural stuff really seems to. Everyone responds differently to chemicals, but you may want to try something more plant-based if you haven't already.
Can you start seeing yourself the positive way I and others see you? Or do you immediately want to dismiss me as someone who doesn't know what she's talking about because we've never met IRL and I've only seen your online persona? If so, you may want to try a technique my therapist taught me called simply "Thought-Stopping." I scorned it until I actually tried it. It sounded too bootstrappy and judgmental, but I found that it's not. It takes practice and doesn't always work, but it does help. I often find that using puzzles or projects helps, as does imagining my self-critical voice as another entity, like my father when he used to belittle me. It feels good to say, "shut the fuck up, Dad," if I get an intrusive, critical thought that sounds like him.
Your parents are idiots to not appreciate you because you're awesome. Tell that to that little voice when it lashes out to you. Also, the fact that other people might be suffering more than you in no way negates your pain. You are entitled to put yourself first. You can't really help anyone else if you aren't already helped, anyway.
I really think what you're going through now -- the struggle to just be okay with yourself but not expecting to ever love yourself; the search for resources; the listing of all the stuff you are grateful for like friends and your home and self-sufficiency and removal from your godawful parents -- all these things are part of the difficult process of growing to value yourself. Of course you will doubt you ever will heal. Low self-esteem is like a monster in the brain that wants to eat you alive, and it will argue with you all day and insist it will win. That seems like such a typical stage of the journey toward wholeness. You are not going through this alone. I've been where you are and so have many, many others. Sometimes it feels like a slog, but keep on keepin' on. You're getting there.
posted by Beethoven's Sith at 12:56 PM on December 31, 2014 [17 favorites]
Running didn't fix the problems in my life or my self but it did give me the space to be able to breath.
I'll second this, with the caveat that not everyone is really physically equipped to fall in love with running for a number of reasons. Even as a relatively seasoned runner, getting back into it after a longish break is hard, and getting into it for the first time is harder still. That said, even if a run itself hasn't gone well, I have never regretted going for a run.
You can get a lot of the benefits of running from walking, too. Being out in nature, focusing on your environment instead of yourself, increased fitness, better sleep. All great things.
posted by Jon Mitchell at 1:00 PM on December 31, 2014 [1 favorite]
I'll second this, with the caveat that not everyone is really physically equipped to fall in love with running for a number of reasons. Even as a relatively seasoned runner, getting back into it after a longish break is hard, and getting into it for the first time is harder still. That said, even if a run itself hasn't gone well, I have never regretted going for a run.
You can get a lot of the benefits of running from walking, too. Being out in nature, focusing on your environment instead of yourself, increased fitness, better sleep. All great things.
posted by Jon Mitchell at 1:00 PM on December 31, 2014 [1 favorite]
Self hate means there are still tears and/or (I would guess "and") anger inside of you. I would seek experiences and therapy to get that out. Worked for me. I did psycho motor therapy where we had sessions where we simply had to shout "no". It went from feeling silly to a point where something surfaces inside of you. I'm nowhere past self-hatred, but that kind of therapy made it a little lighter. Good luck. You are probably awesome.
posted by hz37 at 1:37 PM on December 31, 2014
posted by hz37 at 1:37 PM on December 31, 2014
I've never hated myself, but given the way I was treated during my formative years by almost everyone except my parents, I am perpetually shocked that that's the case. I really believe the only reason why I never hated myself is that by some fluke I figured something out at a young age. It sounds simple, and I suppose it is. It's this: hating you is someone's else's job. People who told you you were worthless when you were younger, people who still tell you that, people who insult you, people who don't believe in you, people who back-stab you or mock you or make your life harder on purpose, people you've never even met who hate you just because of your race/gender/nationality/whatever...hating you is their job and they're always going to be great at it whether you agree with them or not. You, on the other hand, have a different job, and that's to respect yourself enough to be a counter-weight to all that hatred. Don't even worry about liking or loving yourself or comparing yourself to others. Just step back enough to see that regardless of the specifics, you don't deserve to be hated simply for existing as yourself. Even the worst people (and I'm sure you're not one of them) deserve someone to advocate for them. And since you can't count on anyone else to do that all the time (nobody can count on that) you have to do it yourself. You don't even have to do it out loud yet. Just, when you think something hateful about yourself, stop and think "wait a minute, they don't need my help doing their job."
posted by DestinationUnknown at 1:51 PM on December 31, 2014 [7 favorites]
posted by DestinationUnknown at 1:51 PM on December 31, 2014 [7 favorites]
A few years ago, I went to see a quadriplegic talk about his experiences. He told all these stories about his years as a wayward youth -- like starting some fire with his friends that they thought they could keep under control but couldn't -- and then told about how failing to put away the pool cleaning stuff is how he ended up breaking his neck in his teens and ended up a quadriplegic. One of the jokes in his routine was that when people ask him what he thinks he would be doing if he hadn't broken his neck, he replies "Probably 10-20 in the state pen, given all the crap I did as a kid."
You likely have no idea what path your parents would have taken had you not come along. I will suggest that simply agreeing with their toxic assessment that you ruined their lives really isn't logical at all. Given what irresponsible, horrible assholes they were about the path life presented them, they likely would have messed up anything given to them. And perhaps without the responsibilities of parenthood, they would have had far worse lives.
So please let us talk you out of this thing you say is not up for debate. I think it is HIGHLY debatable and other people here seem to agree.
posted by Michele in California at 1:52 PM on December 31, 2014 [3 favorites]
You likely have no idea what path your parents would have taken had you not come along. I will suggest that simply agreeing with their toxic assessment that you ruined their lives really isn't logical at all. Given what irresponsible, horrible assholes they were about the path life presented them, they likely would have messed up anything given to them. And perhaps without the responsibilities of parenthood, they would have had far worse lives.
So please let us talk you out of this thing you say is not up for debate. I think it is HIGHLY debatable and other people here seem to agree.
posted by Michele in California at 1:52 PM on December 31, 2014 [3 favorites]
How can you grow when your roots are so rotten?
Would it work to look at things as "the soil was bad" instead? Because regardless of what your parents wanted, the forces of nature took that bundle of cells and knit them together into fingernails, skin, a beating heart... It's beautiful, really. Then, in spite of everything, you managed to grow taller and eventually into this competent and compassionate adult person who cares for others and cares enough about herself to ask this question. I don't think your roots could possibly be rotten; I think you must be like one of those amazing trees ... lIke this foxtail pine, say... that survives in the most inhospitable places.
The other question I had for you is, given how tough it has been to make traction via the cognitive stuff, have you made any inroads with pure behavioral approaches? "The hand teaches the heart;" sometimes we don't learn things until we experience them. Behaving kindly toward yourself, nurturing yourself -- good food, good toiletries, listening to your own wants -- when mean thoughts attack, sympathetically giving yourself a nice bath, making yourself comforting food, or lighting a candle...
posted by salvia at 2:12 PM on December 31, 2014 [8 favorites]
Would it work to look at things as "the soil was bad" instead? Because regardless of what your parents wanted, the forces of nature took that bundle of cells and knit them together into fingernails, skin, a beating heart... It's beautiful, really. Then, in spite of everything, you managed to grow taller and eventually into this competent and compassionate adult person who cares for others and cares enough about herself to ask this question. I don't think your roots could possibly be rotten; I think you must be like one of those amazing trees ... lIke this foxtail pine, say... that survives in the most inhospitable places.
The other question I had for you is, given how tough it has been to make traction via the cognitive stuff, have you made any inroads with pure behavioral approaches? "The hand teaches the heart;" sometimes we don't learn things until we experience them. Behaving kindly toward yourself, nurturing yourself -- good food, good toiletries, listening to your own wants -- when mean thoughts attack, sympathetically giving yourself a nice bath, making yourself comforting food, or lighting a candle...
posted by salvia at 2:12 PM on December 31, 2014 [8 favorites]
Oh crap, I'm so sorry this is happening. It genuinely sucks. My brain is chemically hard-wired to be an asshole. Sometimes when it's being particularly mean, it helps me to say or think really hard at that nasty voice, "Fuck you! There's nothing wrong with me!" In other words, there's nothing wrong with me being here. Me being me is just fine. There's a lot of faking-it-'til-I-make-it. It's something I have to work at all the time, but sometimes it helps to cast that mean voice in the role of someone jerky to defend myself against.
Exercise helps too, but of course when I need it most all I wanna do is roll up in a ball of self-hatred. That's when I call or text a friend and say, "My brain is being an asshole and I need to (go do this thing) so I'm gonna do that now." It helps me detach a bit and stay accountable.
FWIW, this internet stranger has read many of your posts and thinks this site would be a much poorer place if you were to disappear. You are A-OK. Keep fighting the good fight.
posted by Orange Dinosaur Slide at 3:16 PM on December 31, 2014 [6 favorites]
Exercise helps too, but of course when I need it most all I wanna do is roll up in a ball of self-hatred. That's when I call or text a friend and say, "My brain is being an asshole and I need to (go do this thing) so I'm gonna do that now." It helps me detach a bit and stay accountable.
FWIW, this internet stranger has read many of your posts and thinks this site would be a much poorer place if you were to disappear. You are A-OK. Keep fighting the good fight.
posted by Orange Dinosaur Slide at 3:16 PM on December 31, 2014 [6 favorites]
Hi there,
I'm sorry you are in such pain.
People have given you a great list of things to try. I would suggest that you approach this like a scientist and systematically try out the various suggestions and see which ones help. You might want to begin by simply listing all the suggestions that your question has inspired; there will obviously some repetition, but I think you will end up with quite a long list. Then work your way down the list and see which suggestions actually help. Most probably won't, but it is likely that at least some will.
One thing I think you will notice is that the suggestions will fall into two broad categories: those that encourage you to change your thoughts about yourself (e.g., making a list of all your good qualities) and those that take you out of yourself, so to speak (e.g., volunteering with those less fortunate). I imagine than suggestions of the second type will have a better chance of success.
Part of the problem with this kind of self-loathing is that too much attention is paid to the self. Activities such as meditation, listening to music, rigorous exercise, looking at art, playing with animals, walking in nature, and so on all help people to escape themselves to varying degrees, and I think this is precisely what is needed in your case. Once you become a bit less self-focused, then changing your thoughts about yourself is likely to be more successful, but if you try and start by challenging these false beliefs about yourself, I suspect it will backfire.
Good luck, and all good wishes for the new year.
posted by girl flaneur at 5:01 PM on December 31, 2014 [1 favorite]
I'm sorry you are in such pain.
People have given you a great list of things to try. I would suggest that you approach this like a scientist and systematically try out the various suggestions and see which ones help. You might want to begin by simply listing all the suggestions that your question has inspired; there will obviously some repetition, but I think you will end up with quite a long list. Then work your way down the list and see which suggestions actually help. Most probably won't, but it is likely that at least some will.
One thing I think you will notice is that the suggestions will fall into two broad categories: those that encourage you to change your thoughts about yourself (e.g., making a list of all your good qualities) and those that take you out of yourself, so to speak (e.g., volunteering with those less fortunate). I imagine than suggestions of the second type will have a better chance of success.
Part of the problem with this kind of self-loathing is that too much attention is paid to the self. Activities such as meditation, listening to music, rigorous exercise, looking at art, playing with animals, walking in nature, and so on all help people to escape themselves to varying degrees, and I think this is precisely what is needed in your case. Once you become a bit less self-focused, then changing your thoughts about yourself is likely to be more successful, but if you try and start by challenging these false beliefs about yourself, I suspect it will backfire.
Good luck, and all good wishes for the new year.
posted by girl flaneur at 5:01 PM on December 31, 2014 [1 favorite]
There's a book by Cheri Huber called "There is Nothing Wrong with You". I'm just getting into it but it breaks down very clearly how we're all taught (to lesser and greater extents obviously) to hate ourselves when we're children, how this persists, and what to do about it. It's very hands-on and clear and actually has suggestions for what to do (and thankfully the solutions are not "become a better person, try to be perfect", etc.).
posted by lafemma at 6:41 PM on December 31, 2014 [2 favorites]
posted by lafemma at 6:41 PM on December 31, 2014 [2 favorites]
You are accepting the narrative your parents constructed for themselves and passed on to you. It's a really bullshit narrative. I think you should work with your therapist on deconstructing this shitty narrative.
It just feels inextricable from my knowledge of myself as a human being. How can you grow when your roots are so rotten?
All the time. People -- ordinary people, like you or like me -- do this all the time. What you are as a 32 year old autonomous adult is not where you came from.
posted by DarlingBri at 6:46 PM on December 31, 2014 [1 favorite]
It just feels inextricable from my knowledge of myself as a human being. How can you grow when your roots are so rotten?
All the time. People -- ordinary people, like you or like me -- do this all the time. What you are as a 32 year old autonomous adult is not where you came from.
posted by DarlingBri at 6:46 PM on December 31, 2014 [1 favorite]
I acknowledge that this is an offbeat suggestion, but: is performing something you'd be into? Or maybe a roleplaying game of some kind? I struggle with this too, and sometimes it can help to just be someone else for a while. I really feel like the stage is healing for me partly because of this.
One time I got a role custom-made for me to be the extra exaggerated version of the obnoxious, loud, over-the-top, overbearing creature I sometimes get accused of being - and that energy was given space as a necessary part of the production. It was totally fun and some people really appreciated my character.
So maybe if you had a role where you could go "FINE, IF PEOPLE ARE GOING TO SAY I AM A HORRIBLE WASTE OF SPACE THEN I AM JUST GOING TO EMBRACE THE SHIT OUT OF IT" and just really waaalllllooooowwwwwww in it for a while. Draw it all out. Play with it. Get it out of your system.
Then once you get off stage and back to the "real" world you could probably snap back to some kind of fairer equilibrium.
posted by divabat at 8:38 PM on December 31, 2014
One time I got a role custom-made for me to be the extra exaggerated version of the obnoxious, loud, over-the-top, overbearing creature I sometimes get accused of being - and that energy was given space as a necessary part of the production. It was totally fun and some people really appreciated my character.
So maybe if you had a role where you could go "FINE, IF PEOPLE ARE GOING TO SAY I AM A HORRIBLE WASTE OF SPACE THEN I AM JUST GOING TO EMBRACE THE SHIT OUT OF IT" and just really waaalllllooooowwwwwww in it for a while. Draw it all out. Play with it. Get it out of your system.
Then once you get off stage and back to the "real" world you could probably snap back to some kind of fairer equilibrium.
posted by divabat at 8:38 PM on December 31, 2014
I just want to say that I actually get some sense of healthy self-regard in your post. You want to stop hating yourself, and that, in itself, suggests at least a sliver of genuine self-care. Even the wish to be free of the shit you were force fed makes it clear that the capacity is already in you.
Are there times in the day, even brief moments of respite when you feel sort of okay about yourself? Even five minutes when you feel the absence of self-hatred? Does it seem possible to take note of those moments when they occur, so you can see that you are more than your feelings of self-hatred?
I know you said that self-compassion feels beyond you, but still, I'll recommend Kristin Neff's book. Try the exercises.
I'm wishing you a brighter 2015.
posted by swheatie at 9:48 PM on December 31, 2014 [3 favorites]
Are there times in the day, even brief moments of respite when you feel sort of okay about yourself? Even five minutes when you feel the absence of self-hatred? Does it seem possible to take note of those moments when they occur, so you can see that you are more than your feelings of self-hatred?
I know you said that self-compassion feels beyond you, but still, I'll recommend Kristin Neff's book. Try the exercises.
I'm wishing you a brighter 2015.
posted by swheatie at 9:48 PM on December 31, 2014 [3 favorites]
Bene Brown's writing on shame and vulnerability was very helpful.
I found it useful to think about two ways of understanding - intellectual and emotional. I started to challenge the thoughts of self-hatred and examine them if they were true or not. Therapy helped loads for talking over the assumptions. Simulatenously, I started a process of examining the feelings, and sort of accepting their existance whilst saying they were not true. This was quite hard because actually facing those emotions was terrifying. But when I saw them in safe environments with people I trusted to check in on them, they became less scary and easier to cope with. The idea that feelings weren't facts, and that they could be false was helpful here. And as people wrote above, the idea that an inner critic wasn't really me, and was full of shit.
Best of luck - it is possible to challenge this stuff and be happier.
posted by eyeofthetiger at 3:46 AM on January 1, 2015 [2 favorites]
I found it useful to think about two ways of understanding - intellectual and emotional. I started to challenge the thoughts of self-hatred and examine them if they were true or not. Therapy helped loads for talking over the assumptions. Simulatenously, I started a process of examining the feelings, and sort of accepting their existance whilst saying they were not true. This was quite hard because actually facing those emotions was terrifying. But when I saw them in safe environments with people I trusted to check in on them, they became less scary and easier to cope with. The idea that feelings weren't facts, and that they could be false was helpful here. And as people wrote above, the idea that an inner critic wasn't really me, and was full of shit.
Best of luck - it is possible to challenge this stuff and be happier.
posted by eyeofthetiger at 3:46 AM on January 1, 2015 [2 favorites]
I can very much relate to what you are going through. I have a comment and a suggestion.
I wanted to comment on the idea of the inner critic and your characterization of your problems as "bullshit". I feel like the inner critic is the internalized voices of one's parents (or any other significant person from one's youth). Likely, having this was an evolutionary advantage to our ancestors that allowed them to carry the wisdom and teachings of their parents with them when they weren't there. Unfortunately, it also means we can carry their negativity (in your case, it sounds like, unrelenting negativity). You might find it helpful to think of your inner critic as trying to control you, which is how I think of mine.
When you say
taking time to work on my own bullshit seems especially myopic and stupid when there are so many good, worthy people who are suffering so much more than I am, and I have always preferred to use my limited energy to help them instead.
that is your inner critic trying to maintain control in the face of your attempts to assert control through the positive things you have been doing (meds, therapy, your chosen family, etc.). When my inner critic says my problems aren't real, that I don't need to take my meds or go to therapy, it is reacting to the fact that it's voice will lose influence in my life if I do those positive things for myself. It's trying to run me, and it can't do that if I take care of myself mentally.
You are already doing so many of the right things to quiet your inner critic, I hope that you will see the positive things you have done to take care of yourself and others as recognition that some part of yourself already knows that you have value. As people have asked me, with your life history, why aren't you under an underpass taking drugs? The fact that you aren't is a testament to your recognition that you have some inherent worth.
Now to my suggestion. Have you considered EMDR? It's supposed to be helpful for dealing with PTSD, which I now realize I have been dealing with unsuccessfully for 56 years and it sounds like you are dealing with too. I just started doing it with my new therapist and I'm finding it very helpful for allowing me to get past the extreme negativity that I have towards myself and replacing the negative thoughts with positive ones.
You are clearly an intelligent, articulate and self-aware person who is well thought of on this site. You already have many things going for you. I hope that this will be the year that you are able to make progress on not just not hating yourself , but actually coming to caring for or even loving yourself.
posted by trurl1030 at 4:58 AM on January 1, 2015 [2 favorites]
I wanted to comment on the idea of the inner critic and your characterization of your problems as "bullshit". I feel like the inner critic is the internalized voices of one's parents (or any other significant person from one's youth). Likely, having this was an evolutionary advantage to our ancestors that allowed them to carry the wisdom and teachings of their parents with them when they weren't there. Unfortunately, it also means we can carry their negativity (in your case, it sounds like, unrelenting negativity). You might find it helpful to think of your inner critic as trying to control you, which is how I think of mine.
When you say
taking time to work on my own bullshit seems especially myopic and stupid when there are so many good, worthy people who are suffering so much more than I am, and I have always preferred to use my limited energy to help them instead.
that is your inner critic trying to maintain control in the face of your attempts to assert control through the positive things you have been doing (meds, therapy, your chosen family, etc.). When my inner critic says my problems aren't real, that I don't need to take my meds or go to therapy, it is reacting to the fact that it's voice will lose influence in my life if I do those positive things for myself. It's trying to run me, and it can't do that if I take care of myself mentally.
You are already doing so many of the right things to quiet your inner critic, I hope that you will see the positive things you have done to take care of yourself and others as recognition that some part of yourself already knows that you have value. As people have asked me, with your life history, why aren't you under an underpass taking drugs? The fact that you aren't is a testament to your recognition that you have some inherent worth.
Now to my suggestion. Have you considered EMDR? It's supposed to be helpful for dealing with PTSD, which I now realize I have been dealing with unsuccessfully for 56 years and it sounds like you are dealing with too. I just started doing it with my new therapist and I'm finding it very helpful for allowing me to get past the extreme negativity that I have towards myself and replacing the negative thoughts with positive ones.
You are clearly an intelligent, articulate and self-aware person who is well thought of on this site. You already have many things going for you. I hope that this will be the year that you are able to make progress on not just not hating yourself , but actually coming to caring for or even loving yourself.
posted by trurl1030 at 4:58 AM on January 1, 2015 [2 favorites]
So I'm always stumbling, I never feel secure or stable or safe, and I can't even get upset enough to do something about it because I see myself as a walking pile of garbage that doesn't deserve peace or happiness
Yeah, been there. I think that's actually "learned helplessness."
It's paralyzing and frankly, I'm not sure how to combat it -- but maybe recognizing what it is could be helpful?
if you've had the same struggles with overwhelming self-hatred that springs from the innermost core of your consciousness, can you suggest some of the tactics, ideas, habits, books, therapeutic modalities, etc. that have pulled you out of the rut?
The things that have been helpful to me are all pretty basic. The key has been consistency. It's not so much that I notice myself feeling better if I keep up with them, it's more that I start spiraling out if I don't.
The things that I find helpful that have been "prescribed":
-- running outside every day.
-- scheduling/allowing myself time to do stuff that's purely for my own pleasure and amusement -- stuff that is NOT productive in any way.
-- taking as much time as necessary to do the boring mundane shit (aka, self-care?) that makes my body and environment comfortable rather than just minimally "deal-able." I mean things like keeping things as clean as I like them rather than just clean "enough," doing my hair so I like how it looks rather than just getting it minimally presentable, etc.
That's all stuff that's possible to do mindlessly, which is key for me personally. I've given up trying to control my thoughts or feelings, it's stressful and counterproductive imo. But it's not that tough to make yourself put on shoes or get out the blow-dryer regardless of what's going on in your head.
Also, it's all stuff where my performance isn't subject to anyone else's judgment. I'm sort of always waiting for a judge's gavel to come down and declare everything "not good enough" (and sentence me to [vague doom]). So in order for an activity to actually be enjoyable, I've got to feel like *I'm* the judge, and if I declare something good enough for me, then it by definition *is* good enough. It feels good in and of itself to know that something will not be subject to judgment or criticism or held against me (even by me!). I literally can't screw it up. It's the brain equivalent of a demilitarized zone, I guess?
If someone tells me they love or even like me, I just feel weirdly sorry for them.
divined by radio, for what it's worth -- I like you. Please don't feel weird about that, let alone think I'm pitiable for it! Maybe it gives you vertigo that other people like and respect you more than you do yourself? Nothing to do about that except accept it, though, until you can work yourself up to liking yourself as much as your acquaintances and friends and loved ones do. Just because liking you is something that *you* struggle with doesn't mean that everyone else struggles with it. Liking you has been 0% of a struggle for me, and probably for many, many others.
You're being exceptionally cruel to yourself, but just because you're treating yourself like that doesn't mean that you deserve it (you don't!) or that other people would ever want to treat you like that, too (I don't want to!). It's possible for you to hate yourself and for other people *not* to hate you -- more than possible, it's occurring right now.
Step one is probably accepting/trusting that people genuinely like you and genuinely want to be nice to you, and allowing them to behave that way, even if you can't fully understand it.
In terms of a specific technique, I just try to remind myself to take people at face value, in terms of believing what they say and how they're behaving. My instinct is to try to "mind read," and I'm always looking for signs that someone is (secretly) disgruntled or angry or something. (Which is very handy for customer service! Not so handy for actually having fun socializing). On the flip side, I also make a conscious effort to tell people outright what I want and to be honest about it. I don't want them to feel as though they have to "mind read" with me, either.
If you asked me to name one good or redeemable thing about myself, I wouldn't be able to give you an answer.
For what it's worth, I can name some for you. I look for your comments specifically because they're insightful and eloquent. And I also admire you, because of the aforementioned insight and eloquence, and because you've got grit. Who is able to be vegan for ethical reasons and not have grit? Probably you can think of experiences/situations in your life that required much more grit than going vegan, but that you're got integrity and mental toughness even when it comes to something as relatively minor and voluntary as what you eat says something great about your character imo.
Not to blather on about it since you specifically asked people not to, but I couldn't not respond at least somewhat to all the horrible things you said about yourself in your question, because it's very upsetting to hear you talked about that way, and especially to hear you referred to as garbage. Even if you're too down on yourself to believe that you're not garbage, you STILL AREN'T. You aren't.
There's also literally nothing you could do to even become garbage. People aren't garbage or vermin or anything like that, they're all people. It's hate-mongering to talk about people as though they're garbage or vermin or subhuman or don't deserve to live, and there's no reason for you to try to drum up hate against yourself. That's the kind of language people use to scapegoat.
It sounds like your parents maybe scapegoated you for all their problems, but you don't have to behave that way just because they did. I doubt that you're OK (ethically or morally) with scapegoating in general or that you would ever do that to any other group or any other person.
If you've felt like this, how did you change your own mind about yourself? How did you come to believe that you were inherently worthy and deserving of life itself?
Nobody deserves life, nobody can "earn" life. It's just something we have.
Like I said, I don't think it's possible to control thoughts and feelings, so I've given up on trying to control them and now only try to control my actions. My goal is generally just to not actively fuck myself over. If I have the impulse to do something that I know intellectually isn't in my best interest, I just try to ride that impulse out.
It can be pretty tough to know if you genuinely want something or if you want to fuck yourself over by doing/having that thing, but I guess sorting those out is where the therapist could come in?
posted by rue72 at 5:24 AM on January 1, 2015 [3 favorites]
Yeah, been there. I think that's actually "learned helplessness."
It's paralyzing and frankly, I'm not sure how to combat it -- but maybe recognizing what it is could be helpful?
if you've had the same struggles with overwhelming self-hatred that springs from the innermost core of your consciousness, can you suggest some of the tactics, ideas, habits, books, therapeutic modalities, etc. that have pulled you out of the rut?
The things that have been helpful to me are all pretty basic. The key has been consistency. It's not so much that I notice myself feeling better if I keep up with them, it's more that I start spiraling out if I don't.
The things that I find helpful that have been "prescribed":
-- running outside every day.
-- scheduling/allowing myself time to do stuff that's purely for my own pleasure and amusement -- stuff that is NOT productive in any way.
-- taking as much time as necessary to do the boring mundane shit (aka, self-care?) that makes my body and environment comfortable rather than just minimally "deal-able." I mean things like keeping things as clean as I like them rather than just clean "enough," doing my hair so I like how it looks rather than just getting it minimally presentable, etc.
That's all stuff that's possible to do mindlessly, which is key for me personally. I've given up trying to control my thoughts or feelings, it's stressful and counterproductive imo. But it's not that tough to make yourself put on shoes or get out the blow-dryer regardless of what's going on in your head.
Also, it's all stuff where my performance isn't subject to anyone else's judgment. I'm sort of always waiting for a judge's gavel to come down and declare everything "not good enough" (and sentence me to [vague doom]). So in order for an activity to actually be enjoyable, I've got to feel like *I'm* the judge, and if I declare something good enough for me, then it by definition *is* good enough. It feels good in and of itself to know that something will not be subject to judgment or criticism or held against me (even by me!). I literally can't screw it up. It's the brain equivalent of a demilitarized zone, I guess?
If someone tells me they love or even like me, I just feel weirdly sorry for them.
divined by radio, for what it's worth -- I like you. Please don't feel weird about that, let alone think I'm pitiable for it! Maybe it gives you vertigo that other people like and respect you more than you do yourself? Nothing to do about that except accept it, though, until you can work yourself up to liking yourself as much as your acquaintances and friends and loved ones do. Just because liking you is something that *you* struggle with doesn't mean that everyone else struggles with it. Liking you has been 0% of a struggle for me, and probably for many, many others.
You're being exceptionally cruel to yourself, but just because you're treating yourself like that doesn't mean that you deserve it (you don't!) or that other people would ever want to treat you like that, too (I don't want to!). It's possible for you to hate yourself and for other people *not* to hate you -- more than possible, it's occurring right now.
Step one is probably accepting/trusting that people genuinely like you and genuinely want to be nice to you, and allowing them to behave that way, even if you can't fully understand it.
In terms of a specific technique, I just try to remind myself to take people at face value, in terms of believing what they say and how they're behaving. My instinct is to try to "mind read," and I'm always looking for signs that someone is (secretly) disgruntled or angry or something. (Which is very handy for customer service! Not so handy for actually having fun socializing). On the flip side, I also make a conscious effort to tell people outright what I want and to be honest about it. I don't want them to feel as though they have to "mind read" with me, either.
If you asked me to name one good or redeemable thing about myself, I wouldn't be able to give you an answer.
For what it's worth, I can name some for you. I look for your comments specifically because they're insightful and eloquent. And I also admire you, because of the aforementioned insight and eloquence, and because you've got grit. Who is able to be vegan for ethical reasons and not have grit? Probably you can think of experiences/situations in your life that required much more grit than going vegan, but that you're got integrity and mental toughness even when it comes to something as relatively minor and voluntary as what you eat says something great about your character imo.
Not to blather on about it since you specifically asked people not to, but I couldn't not respond at least somewhat to all the horrible things you said about yourself in your question, because it's very upsetting to hear you talked about that way, and especially to hear you referred to as garbage. Even if you're too down on yourself to believe that you're not garbage, you STILL AREN'T. You aren't.
There's also literally nothing you could do to even become garbage. People aren't garbage or vermin or anything like that, they're all people. It's hate-mongering to talk about people as though they're garbage or vermin or subhuman or don't deserve to live, and there's no reason for you to try to drum up hate against yourself. That's the kind of language people use to scapegoat.
It sounds like your parents maybe scapegoated you for all their problems, but you don't have to behave that way just because they did. I doubt that you're OK (ethically or morally) with scapegoating in general or that you would ever do that to any other group or any other person.
If you've felt like this, how did you change your own mind about yourself? How did you come to believe that you were inherently worthy and deserving of life itself?
Nobody deserves life, nobody can "earn" life. It's just something we have.
Like I said, I don't think it's possible to control thoughts and feelings, so I've given up on trying to control them and now only try to control my actions. My goal is generally just to not actively fuck myself over. If I have the impulse to do something that I know intellectually isn't in my best interest, I just try to ride that impulse out.
It can be pretty tough to know if you genuinely want something or if you want to fuck yourself over by doing/having that thing, but I guess sorting those out is where the therapist could come in?
posted by rue72 at 5:24 AM on January 1, 2015 [3 favorites]
Acknowledging this, and writing it down and expressing it so clearly, is a major, big, courageous, thing that is part of doing the healing/work (however you want to frame it) you want to do. There are more exhaustive responses in this thread, but here's a couple of things that helped me:
- Practice complimenting people - complete strangers - in my head. Not comparing myself to them, just taking a second to find something there I can like (from 'nice shoes' to flights of fancy - 'I bet that guy is really sweet to his kids').
- Getting my head around the brain's narrative function that doesn't just make me bad, but Teh Worst. AKA the 'I'm the piece of shit at the centre of the universe' syndrome. For whatever reason, we're guided to organise our thoughts like this - I'm not just a lousy human, I'm the lousiest and deserve to die and the world would be better without me - on reflection, this is a massively egocentric viewpoint (I've also heard it called 'King Baby syndrome' - King Ego, Baby Self Esteem).
Neither of these may be any good for you, but I want to stress again that putting this down in words is a commitment and an act of bravery, feel as good as you can about it. I used to believe 'liking myself' was the stuff of sheerest fantasy, but several good shrinks, friends, and doing the hard yards on my history, mindset, self-care regime, and art practice all got me to it.
posted by Gin and Broadband at 7:17 AM on January 1, 2015 [2 favorites]
- Practice complimenting people - complete strangers - in my head. Not comparing myself to them, just taking a second to find something there I can like (from 'nice shoes' to flights of fancy - 'I bet that guy is really sweet to his kids').
- Getting my head around the brain's narrative function that doesn't just make me bad, but Teh Worst. AKA the 'I'm the piece of shit at the centre of the universe' syndrome. For whatever reason, we're guided to organise our thoughts like this - I'm not just a lousy human, I'm the lousiest and deserve to die and the world would be better without me - on reflection, this is a massively egocentric viewpoint (I've also heard it called 'King Baby syndrome' - King Ego, Baby Self Esteem).
Neither of these may be any good for you, but I want to stress again that putting this down in words is a commitment and an act of bravery, feel as good as you can about it. I used to believe 'liking myself' was the stuff of sheerest fantasy, but several good shrinks, friends, and doing the hard yards on my history, mindset, self-care regime, and art practice all got me to it.
posted by Gin and Broadband at 7:17 AM on January 1, 2015 [2 favorites]
Fair play? Opposite Day Fair Play.
I have noticed that adults who were abused as children, they tend to think of their childhood in a way which grants the constant central first person narrator all the burdens and wisdom of their current central first person narrator. It ain't so.
You were a baby when you were born. Even in the most difficult circumstances today, would you look at a baby and say "you ruiner of lives!"? No. You would see that the way babies 'ruin lives' cannot be the agency of the baby.
Even though you are the agent of action in your own life today, you were not so when you were a baby. And you maybe felt like you were when you were ten years old, but it was illusory, you were actually just practicing.
Adults have the agency and are able to ruin babies lives. They tried to do that to you. As an adult you are taking that away from them. But you never ruined their lives. You never had the capacity to do such a thing.
<3
posted by The Noble Goofy Elk at 8:35 AM on January 1, 2015 [3 favorites]
I have noticed that adults who were abused as children, they tend to think of their childhood in a way which grants the constant central first person narrator all the burdens and wisdom of their current central first person narrator. It ain't so.
You were a baby when you were born. Even in the most difficult circumstances today, would you look at a baby and say "you ruiner of lives!"? No. You would see that the way babies 'ruin lives' cannot be the agency of the baby.
Even though you are the agent of action in your own life today, you were not so when you were a baby. And you maybe felt like you were when you were ten years old, but it was illusory, you were actually just practicing.
Adults have the agency and are able to ruin babies lives. They tried to do that to you. As an adult you are taking that away from them. But you never ruined their lives. You never had the capacity to do such a thing.
<3
posted by The Noble Goofy Elk at 8:35 AM on January 1, 2015 [3 favorites]
In order to hate yourself you must first split yourself in two: 1- The "you" that's being hated and 2- The "you" that is judging and doing the hating. Solution: Stop splitting yourself in two.
Focus on being only one person instead of two and focus on simply being #1. If #2 "you" isn't around to hate, then there is no hating to be done.
Try this mindfulness exercise. Everytime you start feeling those feelings and having thoughts of self hatred say "Thinking" or "Judging". Label what it is. This is the #1 "you" simply calling out the extra entity and treating it for what it is... just a silly thing that's on the side and makes no difference. It's kind-of like biting your nails... before you can break the habit you first have to be able to notice when you're doing it. Labeling your thoughts helps you do just that. It helps you to notice when and how often you're having them so that you can eventually give up the habit.
posted by rancher at 8:54 AM on January 1, 2015 [2 favorites]
Focus on being only one person instead of two and focus on simply being #1. If #2 "you" isn't around to hate, then there is no hating to be done.
Try this mindfulness exercise. Everytime you start feeling those feelings and having thoughts of self hatred say "Thinking" or "Judging". Label what it is. This is the #1 "you" simply calling out the extra entity and treating it for what it is... just a silly thing that's on the side and makes no difference. It's kind-of like biting your nails... before you can break the habit you first have to be able to notice when you're doing it. Labeling your thoughts helps you do just that. It helps you to notice when and how often you're having them so that you can eventually give up the habit.
posted by rancher at 8:54 AM on January 1, 2015 [2 favorites]
I used to feel like a peach that was rotting from the inside out and now I don't.
Two things that have helped me:
1. As other people have been saying: stop talking to yourself like you're a worthless piece of shit. If you are like me, you are now thinking: "But I am worthless, so talking to myself differently isn't going to change anything!" But it does make a difference somehow.
You don't have to start saying daily affirmations to yourself, if those just feel like hateful lies right now. Just stop saying the awful stuff. When you catch yourself starting up with it again, examine those words and challenge the assumptions behind them. You are currently living in a headspace where you believe that everything nasty you say to yourself is 100% true, and I highly doubt that, actually. It is helpful to interrogate those nasty thoughts and figure out that they're not as logical as you think they are. MoodGYM is a helpful, free resource that can help you start changing how you're talking to yourself.
The goal is to talk to yourself the way you would talk to your best friend. If you wouldn't say it to them, don't say it to yourself.
2. Start telling the people closest to you and people who you trust how you really feel and what you are really afraid of. It's harder to feel like a secretly awful person when other people know your secrets and don't think they're shameful or awful.
posted by colfax at 10:27 AM on January 1, 2015 [3 favorites]
Two things that have helped me:
1. As other people have been saying: stop talking to yourself like you're a worthless piece of shit. If you are like me, you are now thinking: "But I am worthless, so talking to myself differently isn't going to change anything!" But it does make a difference somehow.
You don't have to start saying daily affirmations to yourself, if those just feel like hateful lies right now. Just stop saying the awful stuff. When you catch yourself starting up with it again, examine those words and challenge the assumptions behind them. You are currently living in a headspace where you believe that everything nasty you say to yourself is 100% true, and I highly doubt that, actually. It is helpful to interrogate those nasty thoughts and figure out that they're not as logical as you think they are. MoodGYM is a helpful, free resource that can help you start changing how you're talking to yourself.
The goal is to talk to yourself the way you would talk to your best friend. If you wouldn't say it to them, don't say it to yourself.
2. Start telling the people closest to you and people who you trust how you really feel and what you are really afraid of. It's harder to feel like a secretly awful person when other people know your secrets and don't think they're shameful or awful.
posted by colfax at 10:27 AM on January 1, 2015 [3 favorites]
I can tell you that I had had a child with one of these kind of people and my mother was one of these kind of people. Whwn I turned 13 she was angry when I asked her if I was going to have a birthday cake. She made me use my allowance to pay for my birthday present because it cost your too much for a child she didn't need. I was the oldest of 6. She loved her boys. I tried to act like one of the boys and I got the hell out of that house at 18, but I always believed I was the one who was wrong when any issue came up.
Unlike you I didn't really realize I had a problem until I was much older. I had relationship issues I didn't really have friends fortunately I had siblings who understood, at about 40 it dawned on me because of the way my husband was treatingmy children. I got rid of the man who was treating my children in such an awful way. I have told them time and time again that any statements he makes are just ridiculous I hope they believe it,
you have a head start on me at least you have friends across the world people who care for you and they think great things about you.
I adopted a pretty simple method of helping myself. You've heard it from other people here. " I have a right to be here I have a right to be respected and I have things to contribute."
unfortunately one of my children has decided to just not talk to any of her family anymore because she was so traumatized. I hope I can reconnect someday but I understand why she feels this way.
I'm sorry your parents said stupid things to you ,"stupid is as stupid does " and they are stupid. I hope you start believing what other people say and not them. Good luck.
posted by OhSusannah at 2:19 PM on January 1, 2015 [2 favorites]
Unlike you I didn't really realize I had a problem until I was much older. I had relationship issues I didn't really have friends fortunately I had siblings who understood, at about 40 it dawned on me because of the way my husband was treatingmy children. I got rid of the man who was treating my children in such an awful way. I have told them time and time again that any statements he makes are just ridiculous I hope they believe it,
you have a head start on me at least you have friends across the world people who care for you and they think great things about you.
I adopted a pretty simple method of helping myself. You've heard it from other people here. " I have a right to be here I have a right to be respected and I have things to contribute."
unfortunately one of my children has decided to just not talk to any of her family anymore because she was so traumatized. I hope I can reconnect someday but I understand why she feels this way.
I'm sorry your parents said stupid things to you ,"stupid is as stupid does " and they are stupid. I hope you start believing what other people say and not them. Good luck.
posted by OhSusannah at 2:19 PM on January 1, 2015 [2 favorites]
divined by radio, I admire you immensely and I always enjoy reading your comments and perspectives on the blue & green.
I read your question and glanced at a few of the responses before I realised the whole thread was triggering me. Fortunately, just before I closed my tab, I came across kanata's and Anne Neville's comments and references to Complex PTSD: From Surviving to Thriving by Pete Walker .
I had read something before about complex-ptsd stemming from childhood neglect and abuse and I was interested to see if it could be applied to my own situation. So I bought the ebook and have been reading it all morning. I think there has already been a change. After only 20 pages, something small has already shifted for me. And all through those 20 pages I was noticing parts that seem distinctly relevant to the issues you have raised in your question.
A someone who can relate very closely to your expressed experiences and situation, I think this book could be very helpful for you and I urge you to give it a look if you haven't already.
posted by Kerasia at 4:19 PM on January 1, 2015 [1 favorite]
I read your question and glanced at a few of the responses before I realised the whole thread was triggering me. Fortunately, just before I closed my tab, I came across kanata's and Anne Neville's comments and references to Complex PTSD: From Surviving to Thriving by Pete Walker .
I had read something before about complex-ptsd stemming from childhood neglect and abuse and I was interested to see if it could be applied to my own situation. So I bought the ebook and have been reading it all morning. I think there has already been a change. After only 20 pages, something small has already shifted for me. And all through those 20 pages I was noticing parts that seem distinctly relevant to the issues you have raised in your question.
A someone who can relate very closely to your expressed experiences and situation, I think this book could be very helpful for you and I urge you to give it a look if you haven't already.
posted by Kerasia at 4:19 PM on January 1, 2015 [1 favorite]
I haven't been able to assassinate my inner critic but I am able to shut her in the closet on occasion. Feels great when I pull it off. I have no advice, only admiration and best wishes. I admire your courage and honesty in reaching out. Your MetaFilter fans are rooting for you.
posted by Bella Donna at 4:22 PM on January 1, 2015 [3 favorites]
posted by Bella Donna at 4:22 PM on January 1, 2015 [3 favorites]
I'll second Bella Donna. I too admire your courage and honesty for reaching out. I imagine there are at least a thousand people right now who, like me, would love to give you a hug and express our gladness that you were born.
posted by Kerasia at 4:57 PM on January 1, 2015 [3 favorites]
posted by Kerasia at 4:57 PM on January 1, 2015 [3 favorites]
that is your inner critic trying to maintain control in the face of your attempts to assert control through the positive things you have been doing (meds, therapy, your chosen family, etc.). When my inner critic says my problems aren't real, that I don't need to take my meds or go to therapy, it is reacting to the fact that it's voice will lose influence in my life if I do those positive things for myself. It's trying to run me, and it can't do that if I take care of myself mentally.
Every entrenched system treats change as death, and fights against it.
posted by Sebmojo at 7:29 PM on January 1, 2015 [3 favorites]
Every entrenched system treats change as death, and fights against it.
posted by Sebmojo at 7:29 PM on January 1, 2015 [3 favorites]
So much of our mental turmoil is just habits of the mind. For as long as I can remember I've struggled with feelings of pointlessness and hopelessness with life, even though today I follow the formula of what should provide happiness and contentment, but only recently have started to realize that I'm just a victim of my brains habits and patterns of thinking. If you dwell on something for long enough those neural pathways in the brain get bigger and bigger, finding more and more efficient ways to dwell on those thoughts. You start to obsess over them. The habit gets stronger and suddenly like any habit it's impossible to stop.
I'm not sure what the solution is since I still struggle but at least recognizing this fact has helped separate me from that anguish to some extent. I will continue writing, meditating and thinking positively and hopefully those pathways will start to shrink. There's also a book called Peace is Every Step which is the book equivalent to walking through a beautiful sunny meadow. PM me and I'll send you mine.
posted by dep at 4:06 AM on January 2, 2015 [1 favorite]
I'm not sure what the solution is since I still struggle but at least recognizing this fact has helped separate me from that anguish to some extent. I will continue writing, meditating and thinking positively and hopefully those pathways will start to shrink. There's also a book called Peace is Every Step which is the book equivalent to walking through a beautiful sunny meadow. PM me and I'll send you mine.
posted by dep at 4:06 AM on January 2, 2015 [1 favorite]
Several people have mentioned the value of witnessing up-thread and I'm here to nth that. I recently started confiding in a friend who is a peer, not a therapist and not a "teacher". I don't think I've spoken as much in 13 years as I have over the last three months. I talk until I get it all out. Then she talks. I feel like my thoughts and feelings matter, that they aren't just symptoms.
Oddly enough, I've received several viable social invitations over the last couple of weeks. That wasn't happening six months ago. Does that mean I matter more as a person? Hell no. What it probably means is that I know now that I matter enough to manifest my presence in a room by making a comment, staying with a conversation a little longer than the Boo Radley in me is comfortable with, etc.
divined_by_radio, I don't know you personally, but you matter to me and I care about your suffering. Keep talking about it here and elsewhere.
posted by Sheydem-tants at 5:44 AM on January 2, 2015 [1 favorite]
Oddly enough, I've received several viable social invitations over the last couple of weeks. That wasn't happening six months ago. Does that mean I matter more as a person? Hell no. What it probably means is that I know now that I matter enough to manifest my presence in a room by making a comment, staying with a conversation a little longer than the Boo Radley in me is comfortable with, etc.
divined_by_radio, I don't know you personally, but you matter to me and I care about your suffering. Keep talking about it here and elsewhere.
posted by Sheydem-tants at 5:44 AM on January 2, 2015 [1 favorite]
I've experienced emotional child abuse, I was severely and constantly bullied at school and I may have (or have had) something bipolar going on though it was never diagnosed.
Things that helped me:
posted by rjs at 7:48 AM on January 2, 2015 [1 favorite]
Things that helped me:
- looking at my feelings of self-hatred from a meta-level: "this is internalised child abuse" ... "this is internalised bullying" ... "this is the depression talking, and not me"
- getting older - I grew into accepting myself and into believing that my life doesn't need to be determined by my past
posted by rjs at 7:48 AM on January 2, 2015 [1 favorite]
I am a lurker now and rarely post anymore so I don't recognize your handle from previous posts. What I do recognize is the ember of your courage which burns brightly for me. Though it may be buried under ashes it is is still fire. I assume it was the the spark that allowed you to post so openly and honestly. It may be a spark that you can't see or acknowledge, but let me assure you that it is fire, it glows inside you and that I and others see it clearly even if you can't today. Courage is your friend and can be your guide and light in a dark world.
posted by Xurando at 10:06 AM on January 2, 2015 [1 favorite]
posted by Xurando at 10:06 AM on January 2, 2015 [1 favorite]
Going all the way from self-hatred to self-compassion in one jump is really hard, so sometimes I find it helps just to try to make the self-criticism more realistic. I mean, isn't it a bit arrogant to claim responsibility for entirely ruining the lives of two people? Isn't it kind of presumptuous to feel pity for your friends for liking you, instead of admitting that they know their own minds and can take responsibility for themselves? You're just a person muddling along like the rest of us; you're going to have to give up these grandiose ideas of being History's Greatest Monster.
If your inner voice of self-hatred won't let you believe that you are special in any good ways, at least force it to admit that you are not special in your badness either.
posted by fermion at 12:51 AM on January 3, 2015 [5 favorites]
If your inner voice of self-hatred won't let you believe that you are special in any good ways, at least force it to admit that you are not special in your badness either.
posted by fermion at 12:51 AM on January 3, 2015 [5 favorites]
Sorry, me again. I keep thinking about you and the pain you have been suffering. I want to tell you a story. I don't know if it will help but you asked for tactics and this is one I use.
You were a scapegoat, like I was. I had a mother and eldest brother who both enacted random and unexpected vengeance and cruelty upon me for reasons of their own inadequacies. I understand that now but I didn't then. I didn't understand much at all except that they caused me pain while my father and just-elder brother were kinder and gentler and acted as buffers when they could. Then when I was an early teen, in the space of six weeks, both my father and just-elder brother died unexpectedly and I was left alone as a scapegoat with the pain-makers.
It's a very painful time to remember because I had nobody on my side. My life was very lonely in the immediacy of my grief. My cortisol levels must have been cranked to eleven but I felt myself that I was in a cocoon amongst an earth lacking familial gravity. I was nowhere. I was no-one. I no longer had anyone I wanted to belong to.
Yet without knowing it, I did have someone on my side. My perceptive English teacher decided that all students should produce a poetry portfolio which, of course, was the perfect outlet for a grieving pre-pubescent literature nerd like me. And so when I walked the roads and bush tracks around my home at dusk, as was my need, I could do it with a purpose, I could do it for poetry.
And that's when I discovered a truth that has helped me through years of hurt and pain and self-loathing. Trees. Especially, trees and me. Trees are beautiful and no matter their shape or kind; regardless of their battered wind twists or poor-soil induced truncated growth, they are what they are and their beauty is intrinsic.
Trees and me; the grass and me; stars and me; you and me. We are really all made up of the same matter. We are all really just part of the same one big genesis of energy that is the universe as we know it. We are, all of us, literally star dust. And in the whole damn scheme of the whole damn universe we are just a blip. Just a blob of animated carbon that lived for a moment. We are, beautifully, perfectly, insignificant. Insignificance is our salvation.
For me this means a number of things. As I am of the universe and the earth I therefore inherently belong here; birth parent opinion be damned. And as a natural being on earth, I contain the beauty of nature. Tree and I are kin, therefore I am, with all my imperfections, as beautiful as a tree, no matter if I have been stunted or shaped by forces beyond my control. My insignificance is part of my beauty. I am here, I belong, and I will go on to become atoms of star dust again. We are millions of little lights burning through time and although my little light makes an insignificant difference, it's still my light and it has every right to shine.
So trees have taught me that my existence is separate and independent from my progenitors. They may have spawned and birthed me but they did not create me, the universe did. And I belong to it, not them.
And finally, trees taught me that it is ok to bend out of shape when forces are great. It doesn't make them any less of a tree. Being moulded by outside forces stronger than me doesn't make me any less of a person, or any less worthy of living in the universe that created those forces.
So this is my tactic. When I recognise that I feel isolated, unwelcome, unbelonging, adrift, rejected, and out of place, I look to trees. I walk or drive or look for forests on the internet or go to gardens or somewhere, anywhere there are trees and I look at them I think about all the universal star-dust ways that trees and I are kin and then I absorb their self-acceptance into myself and it calms me down and brings me back and grounds me back into the important, vital, life-anchoring knowledge that I am not only welcome here on earth but I belong to it.
posted by Kerasia at 2:59 AM on January 3, 2015 [12 favorites]
You were a scapegoat, like I was. I had a mother and eldest brother who both enacted random and unexpected vengeance and cruelty upon me for reasons of their own inadequacies. I understand that now but I didn't then. I didn't understand much at all except that they caused me pain while my father and just-elder brother were kinder and gentler and acted as buffers when they could. Then when I was an early teen, in the space of six weeks, both my father and just-elder brother died unexpectedly and I was left alone as a scapegoat with the pain-makers.
It's a very painful time to remember because I had nobody on my side. My life was very lonely in the immediacy of my grief. My cortisol levels must have been cranked to eleven but I felt myself that I was in a cocoon amongst an earth lacking familial gravity. I was nowhere. I was no-one. I no longer had anyone I wanted to belong to.
Yet without knowing it, I did have someone on my side. My perceptive English teacher decided that all students should produce a poetry portfolio which, of course, was the perfect outlet for a grieving pre-pubescent literature nerd like me. And so when I walked the roads and bush tracks around my home at dusk, as was my need, I could do it with a purpose, I could do it for poetry.
And that's when I discovered a truth that has helped me through years of hurt and pain and self-loathing. Trees. Especially, trees and me. Trees are beautiful and no matter their shape or kind; regardless of their battered wind twists or poor-soil induced truncated growth, they are what they are and their beauty is intrinsic.
Trees and me; the grass and me; stars and me; you and me. We are really all made up of the same matter. We are all really just part of the same one big genesis of energy that is the universe as we know it. We are, all of us, literally star dust. And in the whole damn scheme of the whole damn universe we are just a blip. Just a blob of animated carbon that lived for a moment. We are, beautifully, perfectly, insignificant. Insignificance is our salvation.
For me this means a number of things. As I am of the universe and the earth I therefore inherently belong here; birth parent opinion be damned. And as a natural being on earth, I contain the beauty of nature. Tree and I are kin, therefore I am, with all my imperfections, as beautiful as a tree, no matter if I have been stunted or shaped by forces beyond my control. My insignificance is part of my beauty. I am here, I belong, and I will go on to become atoms of star dust again. We are millions of little lights burning through time and although my little light makes an insignificant difference, it's still my light and it has every right to shine.
So trees have taught me that my existence is separate and independent from my progenitors. They may have spawned and birthed me but they did not create me, the universe did. And I belong to it, not them.
And finally, trees taught me that it is ok to bend out of shape when forces are great. It doesn't make them any less of a tree. Being moulded by outside forces stronger than me doesn't make me any less of a person, or any less worthy of living in the universe that created those forces.
So this is my tactic. When I recognise that I feel isolated, unwelcome, unbelonging, adrift, rejected, and out of place, I look to trees. I walk or drive or look for forests on the internet or go to gardens or somewhere, anywhere there are trees and I look at them I think about all the universal star-dust ways that trees and I are kin and then I absorb their self-acceptance into myself and it calms me down and brings me back and grounds me back into the important, vital, life-anchoring knowledge that I am not only welcome here on earth but I belong to it.
posted by Kerasia at 2:59 AM on January 3, 2015 [12 favorites]
How did you come to believe that you were inherently worthy and deserving of life itself?
I'll be honest: I didn't. What has kept me going is mostly contempt for everybody and everything else. But the good thing is, when you think everything else is disgusting (even if you have to manufacture the stories yourself, with no evidence), all you really need to do is stay one inch in front, and suddenly you don't feel quite so bad.
posted by turbid dahlia at 3:00 PM on January 4, 2015
I'll be honest: I didn't. What has kept me going is mostly contempt for everybody and everything else. But the good thing is, when you think everything else is disgusting (even if you have to manufacture the stories yourself, with no evidence), all you really need to do is stay one inch in front, and suddenly you don't feel quite so bad.
posted by turbid dahlia at 3:00 PM on January 4, 2015
I too, recognize your name as someone whose voice I like to listen to here. I am so sorry the demon in your head is so loud and so cruel.
After lots of years I somehow was able to learn/accept that that voice inside my head was not actually -me- or not all of me, that I, you, everyone is made up of more than that--the wisdom in your heart, the actions that you take despite the howling in your head, your thoughts that are not those mean thoughts, those are all honestly -you- and you *can* nurture being able to identify with those other parts and the bad voice will get quieter and less powerful. Vipassana meditation helped me, as well as pieces that stuck with me from various teachers--Radical Acceptance by Tara Brach, The Power of Now by Eckhart Tolle some Pema Chodron. I believe that you too, will find the pieces that will bring you some peace, I am sure of it. Your voice is too kind and wise for it to be any other way.
May you be filled with lovingkindness,
May you be well,
May you be peaceful and at ease,
May you be happy.
posted by eggkeeper at 12:41 PM on January 6, 2015
After lots of years I somehow was able to learn/accept that that voice inside my head was not actually -me- or not all of me, that I, you, everyone is made up of more than that--the wisdom in your heart, the actions that you take despite the howling in your head, your thoughts that are not those mean thoughts, those are all honestly -you- and you *can* nurture being able to identify with those other parts and the bad voice will get quieter and less powerful. Vipassana meditation helped me, as well as pieces that stuck with me from various teachers--Radical Acceptance by Tara Brach, The Power of Now by Eckhart Tolle some Pema Chodron. I believe that you too, will find the pieces that will bring you some peace, I am sure of it. Your voice is too kind and wise for it to be any other way.
May you be filled with lovingkindness,
May you be well,
May you be peaceful and at ease,
May you be happy.
posted by eggkeeper at 12:41 PM on January 6, 2015
How did you come to believe that you were inherently worthy and deserving of life itself?
A previous answer of mine elsewhere on AskMe:
posted by Michele in California at 1:00 PM on January 6, 2015 [2 favorites]
A previous answer of mine elsewhere on AskMe:
FWIW, I made my peace with existential crisis with this flippant but serious conclusion:I don't need to prove that I am "worthy" of existence. I happen to be here, so, clearly the universe has "approved" my existence, whether I like it or not. I still spend plenty of time cussing at the sky about how I would like to get better treatment (or just effin let me die already -- enough with the suffering, yeesh) but I don't need to justify my existence. In my opinion, neither do you.
The Christian bible indicates god was lonely and decided to create humankind to alleviate his loneliness. Thus, I exist as entertainment for a cosmic intelligence beyond my comprehension. I am probably more entertaining when I am screwing up. Therefore, I cannot get this piece of it wrong.
(I am not a Christian. I am someone who gets hung up about Doing The Right Thing. This works for me.)
posted by Michele in California at 1:00 PM on January 6, 2015 [2 favorites]
How can you grow when your roots are so rotten?
There is a good refutation of this in Gary Jennings' book Aztec, of all places. This book is a novel and has nothing to do with self esteem (though you might enjoy it if you like historical fiction). At one point in the book, Mixtli (the main character), an Aztec, has been trying to find Aztlan, the mythical land where the ancestors of the Aztecs originated from. He finds it, and he is not impressed. But he realizes this doesn't detract from what the Aztecs of his time (immediately pre-Conquest) were:
Gradually, I came to a new realization. People are not plants. They are not fixed to any roots or dependent on them. People are mobile and free to move far from their beginnings- far away, if that satisfies them- far upward, if they have the ambition and ability
posted by Anne Neville at 1:42 PM on January 12, 2015 [1 favorite]
There is a good refutation of this in Gary Jennings' book Aztec, of all places. This book is a novel and has nothing to do with self esteem (though you might enjoy it if you like historical fiction). At one point in the book, Mixtli (the main character), an Aztec, has been trying to find Aztlan, the mythical land where the ancestors of the Aztecs originated from. He finds it, and he is not impressed. But he realizes this doesn't detract from what the Aztecs of his time (immediately pre-Conquest) were:
Gradually, I came to a new realization. People are not plants. They are not fixed to any roots or dependent on them. People are mobile and free to move far from their beginnings- far away, if that satisfies them- far upward, if they have the ambition and ability
posted by Anne Neville at 1:42 PM on January 12, 2015 [1 favorite]
This thread is closed to new comments.
Once, when I was at a particularly low point, the tel3mum said to me "you have a right to be here".
I just talked to her about it and she wants me to tell you the same thing, on her behalf.
You have a right to be here.
posted by tel3path at 9:39 AM on December 31, 2014 [22 favorites]