That's a LOT of beef
December 19, 2014 6:14 AM Subscribe
I have 4 5-lb chuck roasts I'm cooking for a Hanukkah party tonight - too much to fit in my slow cooker or dutch oven. They've been sitting in the refrigerator overnight slathered in garlic, Dijon, and herbs. I've got a big roasting pan, a rack, carrots, potatoes, onions, herbs, wine, homemade broth...beyond searing them, what I don't have is a cooking method guaranteed to make them succulent and tender. Rack or no rack? How much liquid in the pan. Temperature and time? Veggies in the pan or roasted separately? Other tips or advice?
Best answer: I'm guessing you want slices. Definitely a braise-- half immersed in liquid. I would put some aromatics sliced into the braise, but not the potatoes. Put them in with 45 minutes or so remaining. Maybe some additional aromatics at that point too. Oven to maybe 275, I'd guess 3-4 hours, but should be done by temperature. If they get up to temp before you're ready to eat, take everything out and reheat at dinner time. It'll probably be better like that. Strain the braising liquid and reduce until it coats a spoon. If no one cares about fleisch+milch, make a dark-ish roux for the sauce.
posted by supercres at 6:28 AM on December 19, 2014 [3 favorites]
posted by supercres at 6:28 AM on December 19, 2014 [3 favorites]
Nthing braising. The liquid should come up at least halfway, and you should also tent the dish with foil to trap in steam for part of the cooking. Also, don't be afraid to cut the one giant piece into two smaller pieces, and even to put it into two different dishes (if you have the oven space. If something is too large, by the time you cook the center to your desired doneness (assuming it isn't completely rare, which is my desire), the outside can be a barren wasteland. Even at a low temperature, even submerged in liquid.
As for liquid, my mother's famous brisket is braised in Manischewitz, but I recognize that most people think poorly of Manischewitz. Given that the rub contains mustard, I'm not certain that would be good anyway. Low sodium broth, or broth thinned with water might be fine. As for veggies, if you want to eat them, don't put them in at the beginning, otherwise they will be mush by the time you're done. However, putting some heartier root stuff and aromatics (onions) on the bottom of the pan to act as a bed for the meat is a good idea. Then, you don't need a rack.
posted by X-Himy at 6:50 AM on December 19, 2014
As for liquid, my mother's famous brisket is braised in Manischewitz, but I recognize that most people think poorly of Manischewitz. Given that the rub contains mustard, I'm not certain that would be good anyway. Low sodium broth, or broth thinned with water might be fine. As for veggies, if you want to eat them, don't put them in at the beginning, otherwise they will be mush by the time you're done. However, putting some heartier root stuff and aromatics (onions) on the bottom of the pan to act as a bed for the meat is a good idea. Then, you don't need a rack.
posted by X-Himy at 6:50 AM on December 19, 2014
If you're going the braising route - I'd put them in the pan rack-less and cover it with foil. (I'd also do a little hotter, closer to 325, but that's just my guess, not SCIENCE!)
posted by mercredi at 6:51 AM on December 19, 2014
posted by mercredi at 6:51 AM on December 19, 2014
Best answer: Oh, and the gravy you desire is going to be a reduction of the braising liquid, possibly thickened with a slurry of water and cornstarch, on the stovetop. But if you go with the vegetables on the bottom root, they and the fat from the roast will contribute a bit to the thickness of the sauce. This is especially why you want low sodium liquid, because otherwise you're going to reduce the liquid into something unpalatably briny.
posted by X-Himy at 6:54 AM on December 19, 2014
posted by X-Himy at 6:54 AM on December 19, 2014
Best answer: I have always roasted beef at somewhere in the 225F range, slowly, and then used some heat at the end to give it color. This is the method Alton Brown describes for roast beef (though I think he uses a standing rib, but it doesn't matter).
I do mine in a very heavy cast iron skillet, but you can use any pan really. The key is to have some liquid in the pan ... I do not braise the meat, in fact I put some vegetables in the pan specifically to keep the meat out of the liquid, but the liquid keeps the drippings from the meat from burning. If the pan goes dry, you have basically lost your opportunity to make pan gravy. So some stock or beer or even just water in the pan along with the mirepoix (carrot, celery, onion) will let you make gravy afterwards.
posted by Kadin2048 at 7:08 AM on December 19, 2014
I do mine in a very heavy cast iron skillet, but you can use any pan really. The key is to have some liquid in the pan ... I do not braise the meat, in fact I put some vegetables in the pan specifically to keep the meat out of the liquid, but the liquid keeps the drippings from the meat from burning. If the pan goes dry, you have basically lost your opportunity to make pan gravy. So some stock or beer or even just water in the pan along with the mirepoix (carrot, celery, onion) will let you make gravy afterwards.
posted by Kadin2048 at 7:08 AM on December 19, 2014
Best answer: 225 as per Kadin 2048, above. Everything else that supercress recommended!
You are using red wine, right?
Tip: I put in a container of washed unsliced crimini mushrooms AND dried shitaki (or dried gourmet mix) of mushrooms in the braising liquid at the beginning. The fresh mushrooms will be tiny by end of cooking, better to leave them whole.
All other veg goes in last 45 to 1 hour.
The mushrooms round out the flavor of the wine and improves your jus or gravy at the end. Trust.
posted by jbenben at 7:24 AM on December 19, 2014 [1 favorite]
You are using red wine, right?
Tip: I put in a container of washed unsliced crimini mushrooms AND dried shitaki (or dried gourmet mix) of mushrooms in the braising liquid at the beginning. The fresh mushrooms will be tiny by end of cooking, better to leave them whole.
All other veg goes in last 45 to 1 hour.
The mushrooms round out the flavor of the wine and improves your jus or gravy at the end. Trust.
posted by jbenben at 7:24 AM on December 19, 2014 [1 favorite]
Response by poster: Just to clarify - I have 20 lbs. of meat all together. Four separate 5-lb roasts, and one oven with two racks. Based on your awesome and specific suggestions, here's what I'm thinking. Sear all pieces and put in a roasting pan directly on a base of mirapoix with mushrooms added , no rack. Add a couple inches of red wine and bone broth, and tent. Cook at 250 for 5 or so hours. I'll check it 1/2 way through to make sure there's still liquid. When it comes out to rest and while making gravy, crank the heat and roast some carrots and potatoes (and maybe some beets I have.)
posted by ms_rasclark at 8:27 AM on December 19, 2014 [2 favorites]
posted by ms_rasclark at 8:27 AM on December 19, 2014 [2 favorites]
Response by poster: Jenben, I have already added magic mushroom powder to the rub, but can't really have to much umami, right?
posted by ms_rasclark at 8:51 AM on December 19, 2014
posted by ms_rasclark at 8:51 AM on December 19, 2014
I'd assume you'll have multiple roasting pans and want to reposition and rotate them a few times if you're doing so much at once for the sake of evenly cooking everything... just a guess, though, since I have never had such ambition myself. Climb Mount Beeferest for all of us!
posted by XMLicious at 9:56 AM on December 19, 2014 [1 favorite]
posted by XMLicious at 9:56 AM on December 19, 2014 [1 favorite]
Best answer: I think that sounds like a good plan. If you have a probe thermometer that will let you track the internal temperature of the meat as it cooks, so much the better.
My only other tip is to start early, leave much more time than you need to for the meat to cook. It is fairly easy to keep the meat warm (just don't slice it, tent it under foil) for up to several hours before serving; if you find yourself running short on cooking time and the meat is still 120F, the temptation to turn the heat up and either dry the meat out or ruin the gravy/jus will be very high.
Honestly with that much meat in the oven I don't think you really need to tent the cooking pans while you are roasting; the oven itself will get pretty moist... but I don't think it'll really hurt either.
I'd season the outside of the meat with some combination of garlic / onion / kosher salt / rosemary / whatever pleases you before cooking (after browning, if you are "brown first" vs. "brown last"). If you are lucky it'll form a nice appealing crust. If you are not lucky it'll just end up flavoring the jus.
posted by Kadin2048 at 10:27 AM on December 19, 2014
My only other tip is to start early, leave much more time than you need to for the meat to cook. It is fairly easy to keep the meat warm (just don't slice it, tent it under foil) for up to several hours before serving; if you find yourself running short on cooking time and the meat is still 120F, the temptation to turn the heat up and either dry the meat out or ruin the gravy/jus will be very high.
Honestly with that much meat in the oven I don't think you really need to tent the cooking pans while you are roasting; the oven itself will get pretty moist... but I don't think it'll really hurt either.
I'd season the outside of the meat with some combination of garlic / onion / kosher salt / rosemary / whatever pleases you before cooking (after browning, if you are "brown first" vs. "brown last"). If you are lucky it'll form a nice appealing crust. If you are not lucky it'll just end up flavoring the jus.
posted by Kadin2048 at 10:27 AM on December 19, 2014
Sounds good.
But! You'll only want to rest for about 25 minutes, no longer, and you'll want to take it out before your core temp reaches whatever level of doneness you prefer--15 degreesF before. Beets take longer than that to roast, usually, though should be good for carrots.
posted by feckless fecal fear mongering at 10:42 AM on December 19, 2014
But! You'll only want to rest for about 25 minutes, no longer, and you'll want to take it out before your core temp reaches whatever level of doneness you prefer--15 degreesF before. Beets take longer than that to roast, usually, though should be good for carrots.
posted by feckless fecal fear mongering at 10:42 AM on December 19, 2014
I suggested 275 only because I'm not sure how much you trust your oven. If it's running 25 degrees cool (not unheard of), 225 is going to be bad news. I do 225 +/- on the smoker when I have a digital thermometer in there the whole time.
posted by supercres at 12:05 PM on December 19, 2014
posted by supercres at 12:05 PM on December 19, 2014
Response by poster: So, math is not my strong suit. I actually have a total of 10 pounds of meat. It's still barely fit in my big Calphalon roasting pan.
I may be missing it, but what should the internal temperature of the meat be when it's done?
posted by ms_rasclark at 3:17 PM on December 19, 2014
I may be missing it, but what should the internal temperature of the meat be when it's done?
posted by ms_rasclark at 3:17 PM on December 19, 2014
Response by poster: So I'm pretty sure we're going to be having shoe leather. I just checked it after 3 1/2 hours at 275 degrees and the meat thermometer is registering almost 200 degrees. I don't know if I should turn it down, take it out, or what. I doubt the connective tissues and whatever magic is supposed to happen has done so. We don't really have a back-up plan and we have 20 people showing up for dinner in a couple hours.
posted by ms_rasclark at 4:33 PM on December 19, 2014
posted by ms_rasclark at 4:33 PM on December 19, 2014
I hope you took it out! Beef you want no more than like 160F internal temperature. And braising should be <250F.
posted by feckless fecal fear mongering at 7:56 PM on December 19, 2014
posted by feckless fecal fear mongering at 7:56 PM on December 19, 2014
Response by poster: Somehow, the meat was tender and juicy. Still not make favorite, but other people loved it. Three of the four roasts were eaten and now I have one left for shredded beef. I already enjoyed some in a hash yesterday morning for breakfast with sweet potatoes and leftover broccoli. Now I just need to figure out what to do with the rest. Taco? Shepherd's pie? Off to look for recipes.
posted by ms_rasclark at 6:33 AM on December 21, 2014 [1 favorite]
posted by ms_rasclark at 6:33 AM on December 21, 2014 [1 favorite]
Open faced sandwiches with gravy.
posted by feckless fecal fear mongering at 9:12 AM on December 21, 2014
posted by feckless fecal fear mongering at 9:12 AM on December 21, 2014
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Please clarify!!
posted by jbenben at 6:24 AM on December 19, 2014