Business Class- Unshared vs Consumer Cable?
November 3, 2014 1:39 AM
Is it true that the advertised cable internet speed is just a burst and then drops and is also shared with other users on one node causing slowdowns when its busy?
Hi,
We are moving to a new location in Ojai, CA and are looking for a very good ISP. Both of use work from home and are very dependent on the internet for email, video conferencing, remote IT support etc etc.
Is it true that the advertised cable internet speed is just a burst and then drops and is also shared with other users on one node causing slowdowns when its busy?
An fiber based ISP (last mile in in copper...) claims that their Business Class- Unshared | 10/2 MBPS will outperform the consumer cable ISP user experience.
I am not talking about just what speedtest.net shows but true every day use. Including large downloads like movies or software packages....
Does the much more expensive "business class" cable form Comcast make a true difference other than their customer support? From what I see it doesn't make much difference in speed other then their support when you call them.
I can counter downtime with a dual WAN router and a 2nd ISP for back-up so having a bit faster tech support is not my criteria.
Looking forward to your input.
Roger
Hi,
We are moving to a new location in Ojai, CA and are looking for a very good ISP. Both of use work from home and are very dependent on the internet for email, video conferencing, remote IT support etc etc.
Is it true that the advertised cable internet speed is just a burst and then drops and is also shared with other users on one node causing slowdowns when its busy?
An fiber based ISP (last mile in in copper...) claims that their Business Class- Unshared | 10/2 MBPS will outperform the consumer cable ISP user experience.
I am not talking about just what speedtest.net shows but true every day use. Including large downloads like movies or software packages....
Does the much more expensive "business class" cable form Comcast make a true difference other than their customer support? From what I see it doesn't make much difference in speed other then their support when you call them.
I can counter downtime with a dual WAN router and a 2nd ISP for back-up so having a bit faster tech support is not my criteria.
Looking forward to your input.
Roger
Cable is an inherently shared access technology. Advertised cable speed merely means the rate that your cable modem is provisioned to allow, and that may include "speed boost" options depending on the specifics of the setup.
A fiber/copper based ISP may be better in that you have dedicated copper going to your house, which is then aggregated onto fiber. You're sharing that fiber with many other subscribers, however, so in some ways it isn't terribly different than cable. "Unshared" is effectively a lie - in the best case, it means the service provider has actually reserved bandwidth throughout their network and is guaranteeing availability of bandwidth to the Internet.
The "business class" services typically share the same physical plant as the consumer services, but it is possible - not at all guaranteed - that the service provider may prioritize your traffic. This is more important on cable, where the bandwidth available on the cable plant is a significant issue.
If you are in an area with poor broadcast TV coverage and everybody is doing Netflix, this can be hard on a service provider. In such cases, getting your traffic prioritized would be nice. Especially for cable.
But the real problem in the service provider business isn't just the access technology, it is also what sort of bandwidth is available from the local CMTS/DSLAM out to the public Internet as well. In many outlying areas, this can be the limiting factor, and the speed your line is provisioned for is rather irrelevant if the service provider cannot back that with Internet bandwidth. This problem exists for both cable and DSL providers.
In short, it is a complex multidimensional problem that has no clear-cut answer. In general, the lower-priced option (which is often cable) will tend to be more congested because many more people opt for it. However, cable is often contract-free while the DSL based solutions typically have contracts. In such a case, the best solution is to actually try the cable and see if it is acceptable. If not, then use it as the backup for your dual WAN router and go with the DSL.
posted by jgreco at 3:44 AM on November 3, 2014
A fiber/copper based ISP may be better in that you have dedicated copper going to your house, which is then aggregated onto fiber. You're sharing that fiber with many other subscribers, however, so in some ways it isn't terribly different than cable. "Unshared" is effectively a lie - in the best case, it means the service provider has actually reserved bandwidth throughout their network and is guaranteeing availability of bandwidth to the Internet.
The "business class" services typically share the same physical plant as the consumer services, but it is possible - not at all guaranteed - that the service provider may prioritize your traffic. This is more important on cable, where the bandwidth available on the cable plant is a significant issue.
If you are in an area with poor broadcast TV coverage and everybody is doing Netflix, this can be hard on a service provider. In such cases, getting your traffic prioritized would be nice. Especially for cable.
But the real problem in the service provider business isn't just the access technology, it is also what sort of bandwidth is available from the local CMTS/DSLAM out to the public Internet as well. In many outlying areas, this can be the limiting factor, and the speed your line is provisioned for is rather irrelevant if the service provider cannot back that with Internet bandwidth. This problem exists for both cable and DSL providers.
In short, it is a complex multidimensional problem that has no clear-cut answer. In general, the lower-priced option (which is often cable) will tend to be more congested because many more people opt for it. However, cable is often contract-free while the DSL based solutions typically have contracts. In such a case, the best solution is to actually try the cable and see if it is acceptable. If not, then use it as the backup for your dual WAN router and go with the DSL.
posted by jgreco at 3:44 AM on November 3, 2014
I have a Comcast Commercial connection. Here is what I've noticed that's different:
First, I've been assigned a permanent IP for my server.
Second, it is assumed that I will use a lot more uplink than a regular user. They have the carrier frequency balanced differently, to allocate more bandwidth for uplink for commercial users. (We don't share the same carrier as home users.)
Third, customer service is definitely better.
Fourth, I pay twice as much per month as a regular user.
Fifth, commercial carrier frequencies around here aren't as crowded, so I've never noticed any dropoff due to congestion. Whether that's by design or simply because there aren't very many of us, I couldn't say.
Sixth, the Commercial and the Home companies (they are separate) don't communicate well. Three times I've had Home technicians notice my connection, check their records, decide that I wasn't supposed to have service, and disconnect me. All three times I called Commercial's tech support and they had a tech out the next day to reconnect me. The last time that happened was several years ago, and maybe they've gotten their act together.
posted by Chocolate Pickle at 4:43 AM on November 3, 2014
First, I've been assigned a permanent IP for my server.
Second, it is assumed that I will use a lot more uplink than a regular user. They have the carrier frequency balanced differently, to allocate more bandwidth for uplink for commercial users. (We don't share the same carrier as home users.)
Third, customer service is definitely better.
Fourth, I pay twice as much per month as a regular user.
Fifth, commercial carrier frequencies around here aren't as crowded, so I've never noticed any dropoff due to congestion. Whether that's by design or simply because there aren't very many of us, I couldn't say.
Sixth, the Commercial and the Home companies (they are separate) don't communicate well. Three times I've had Home technicians notice my connection, check their records, decide that I wasn't supposed to have service, and disconnect me. All three times I called Commercial's tech support and they had a tech out the next day to reconnect me. The last time that happened was several years ago, and maybe they've gotten their act together.
posted by Chocolate Pickle at 4:43 AM on November 3, 2014
Is it true that the advertised cable internet speed is just a burst and then drops and is also shared with other users on one node causing slowdowns when its busy?
At the end of the day it sounds like you don't care if it's the product you buy is called consumer level, business, wideband, fiber, whatever, you just want a guaranteed level of service. In that case, you'll want to ask about a bandwidth/capacity SLA. This will probably end up getting you directed to the Business Class department, but maybe your local ISPs can do something on the home user side of things.
posted by Nonsteroidal Anti-Inflammatory Drug at 6:42 AM on November 3, 2014
At the end of the day it sounds like you don't care if it's the product you buy is called consumer level, business, wideband, fiber, whatever, you just want a guaranteed level of service. In that case, you'll want to ask about a bandwidth/capacity SLA. This will probably end up getting you directed to the Business Class department, but maybe your local ISPs can do something on the home user side of things.
posted by Nonsteroidal Anti-Inflammatory Drug at 6:42 AM on November 3, 2014
Thank you so much for al the answers!
At least I don't feel stupid any more. I am supposed to know this stuff but its obviously a dark mystery about finding out what service works best.
I have noticed that at some locations the Comcast connection just flies using the same router / switch configuration as in other places...
The best answer was probably the one suggesting to try the service who doesn't want to lock you in and hold you hostage... Now lets hope there are options to choose from.
Roger
posted by Mac-Expert at 8:48 AM on November 3, 2014
At least I don't feel stupid any more. I am supposed to know this stuff but its obviously a dark mystery about finding out what service works best.
I have noticed that at some locations the Comcast connection just flies using the same router / switch configuration as in other places...
The best answer was probably the one suggesting to try the service who doesn't want to lock you in and hold you hostage... Now lets hope there are options to choose from.
Roger
posted by Mac-Expert at 8:48 AM on November 3, 2014
If by some chance the copper/fiber provider happens to be Sonic.net, they're very well thought of in the industry and you are unlikely to be unhappy with them.
posted by jgreco at 11:47 AM on November 3, 2014
posted by jgreco at 11:47 AM on November 3, 2014
One thing to consider is the quality of service (if/when you need it). I have Comcast Business Class at my office and at home. It isn't any faster than my old Comcast residential service, but when there's a problem, I get much better support from the business techs. (The support is still awful, but at least the techs speak English and will escalate if you can show that you're doing the right things and still not having joy. Consumer-level support is nothing more than wasting your time on the phone in hopes that the connection will come back up while you're away from the computer.)
posted by spacewrench at 4:57 PM on November 3, 2014
posted by spacewrench at 4:57 PM on November 3, 2014
Unfortunately no Sonic.net in that area :-/
Indeed it has been my observation as well that there is little difference between business and consumer Comcast. Other than the option for Static IP and the access to more ports.
Dont care about their tech support. Please connect my modem and leave my property please..
For 100% uptime I can always add a cheap DSL plan or use 4G LTE and feed it into a Multi WAN router. I prefer to use Peplink for that.
posted by Mac-Expert at 6:37 PM on November 3, 2014
Indeed it has been my observation as well that there is little difference between business and consumer Comcast. Other than the option for Static IP and the access to more ports.
Dont care about their tech support. Please connect my modem and leave my property please..
For 100% uptime I can always add a cheap DSL plan or use 4G LTE and feed it into a Multi WAN router. I prefer to use Peplink for that.
posted by Mac-Expert at 6:37 PM on November 3, 2014
I've got news for you: yes, you do care about customer support, including tech support. You'd be surprised what kind of things can come up.
posted by Chocolate Pickle at 8:33 PM on November 3, 2014
posted by Chocolate Pickle at 8:33 PM on November 3, 2014
Is this SLA any good?
http://www.cainternet.net/legal/sla.pdf
posted by Mac-Expert at 9:10 PM on November 3, 2014
http://www.cainternet.net/legal/sla.pdf
posted by Mac-Expert at 9:10 PM on November 3, 2014
It's nothing exciting, especially with the 30 day metrics. I'm guessing that's a standard residential or small business service.
If you encounter an issue with capacity not being what you feel you're paying for are you fine waiting 30 days? If you aren't fine with that, how much more would you be willing to pay to get to the level of service where problems are measured in hours or minutes?
posted by Nonsteroidal Anti-Inflammatory Drug at 5:59 PM on November 4, 2014
If you encounter an issue with capacity not being what you feel you're paying for are you fine waiting 30 days? If you aren't fine with that, how much more would you be willing to pay to get to the level of service where problems are measured in hours or minutes?
posted by Nonsteroidal Anti-Inflammatory Drug at 5:59 PM on November 4, 2014
The Cainternet service is expensive.
I have decided to go with the maximum plan offered by Comcast (150Mbps). If needed I will add a 2nd ISP. Also will apply some Qos rules on the network to make sure the most critical services have priority.
posted by Mac-Expert at 8:07 AM on November 5, 2014
I have decided to go with the maximum plan offered by Comcast (150Mbps). If needed I will add a 2nd ISP. Also will apply some Qos rules on the network to make sure the most critical services have priority.
posted by Mac-Expert at 8:07 AM on November 5, 2014
Before you put in much effort with setting up QoS, be aware that if you're using a standard residential connection there's a good chance that all your carefully chosen DSCP markings will be completely ignored by the next router upstream from you. So if your WAN link is enough of a bottleneck that QoS looks like it's going to be necessary, it might well remain so even when everything emerging from your own router is nicely marked and prioritized.
posted by flabdablet at 9:32 PM on November 5, 2014
posted by flabdablet at 9:32 PM on November 5, 2014
This thread is closed to new comments.
I don't recall ever having spoken to an ISP willing to disclose actual numbers about backhaul capacity vs cable capacity vs number of subscribers sharing a cable segment vs promised end-user bandwidth. They're all cagey as hell about those numbers because the people best equipped to understand their implications are not their customers but their competitors.
I know of no better way to gauge ISP quality than just trying them out. As a guideline for which order to do that in: ISPs who will sell you service at competitive prices without requiring you to sign up for lengthy service contracts are the ones most likely to offer satisfactory performance levels. If an ISP has to lock you in hard to stop you jumping ship after a few months, there's a good chance you're going to find their service sucks.
posted by flabdablet at 3:40 AM on November 3, 2014