like the drink? AA?

October 3, 2005 3:10 PM

So...can I keep drinking and go to AA at the same time?

So, I think and actually am pretty sure, that my drinking either could be a problem, or is a problem. But, the damn monkey and the way it makes me feel good want me to keep drinking. I drink some most nights, which i know is a red flag. But I don't feel like I've hit the rock bottom point and drink like I'm aware of that. I know where this could go, and I know the drink doesn't affect me like other folks (see, the meetings have taught me some things), but don't know if it's ok to keep going to the AA meetings. I know I'm and alcoholic in that that I freaking love the stuff like nobodies business. But at the same time, there are big ole strikes one the checklist I never hit.

Still, I know I drink more that most people do. Which worries me i guess. Which is why I've been going to the AA meetings. To hear other people's experiences with it.

And I have to say, it was very interesting to sit in a room of folks who understood how the drinking worked. What raised an issue with me, was that most of them had hit a bottom point, no job, no life, drinking 24/7, ect. which I'm not at.

Pre-emptive stike?

posted by anonymous to society & culture (31 comments total)

I'd be willing to bet that if you keep going you'll run into plenty of people whose bottom wasn't all that low. Also, nobody's going to kick you out for drinking, though I've never known anyone to go to meetings who wasn't at least trying to quit. Sounds like you just aren't ready to stop.
posted by cali at 3:23 PM on October 3, 2005

In all honesty your opening question sounds rhetorical and I don't sense a follow up query in anything else you said. Are you asking if it's unethical to drink and go to AA? That's a non-issue. You have to drink problem. Go to AA. The question is a non-issue.
posted by nthdegx at 3:24 PM on October 3, 2005

First of all I've known people who have gone to AA and still drank. I've known an alchoholic who felt it was safe for her to go back to drinking. All were successful.

Everyone has their own process of dealing with this, and I think you are right in the middle of your process. You don't seem to accept fully that you even are an alchoholic because you haven't hit bottom or you don't fit the standard in your mind. Lots of people can have a middle of the road version of a disease, but they still have it. I had a shrink who didn't want to test to confirm whether his diagnosis was definitely right, he just wanted to see if treating me for it made me better. What I mean is, if the treatment is helping, that is what is important.

Keep going. Definitely.
posted by scazza at 3:26 PM on October 3, 2005

I'm sure there are alot of people going to AA meetings who still drink but they're generally trying to kick their addiction. It sounds like you've admitted an addiction but aren't quite ready to try and kick it yet.

I don't think it can hurt to go to the meetings and maybe you'll find some reasons why you should get a handle on it before you hit rock bottom.
posted by fenriq at 3:29 PM on October 3, 2005

I'm more in the camp that you're using AA to learn more about your situation. Going cold turkey when you don't particularly want to might sour you towards AA which would be detrimental to your learning more about your situation.

I think it's your own decision. As cali said, AA isn't going to bar you from the meetings if you do continue to imbibe. Do you know if everyone else at the meetings are currently and solidly on the wagon?

OTOH, do you really want to hit rock bottom before you stop drinking? Maybe try to give yourself some goals, kind of like a game. Go two days without drinking. If you make it, reward yourself (not with alcohol). Next time, try three days, four days, the workweek, &c.
posted by PurplePorpoise at 3:31 PM on October 3, 2005

If you have a drinking problem, why do you continue drinking?

If you don't think you have a drinking problem, why are you going to AA meetings?

At an AA meeting, do you claim you are an alcoholic?

If you are going to AA meetings, would you accept that your drinking may have an adverse effect on alcoholics present at those meetings?
posted by Rothko at 3:34 PM on October 3, 2005

Yeah... what PurplePorpoise said. You don't have to be at "rock bottom" to be an alcoholic. If you know it's a problem, surely the best idea would be to sort it before you hurt yourself/others?

Also, if you're not really ready to stop drinking, try cutting down gradually instead.
posted by Lotto at 3:36 PM on October 3, 2005

ever heard "keep coming back - it works if you work it"

keep going back. get a sponsor. talk. be honest at the meetings, as you are in this post. you are not unique in this - what you are talking about is what most alcoholics feel.

so keep going to meetings. if the meetings that you are going to are not helping, then find another meeting.

there's a part of you that knows the answer to your question.
posted by seawallrunner at 3:48 PM on October 3, 2005

I don't know, I get drunk every night but show up to work on time every morning. I also recently went two months without a drink, so don't be so quick to think you're "out of control."
posted by The Jesse Helms at 3:49 PM on October 3, 2005

fwiw - disclaimer: I am a very heavy drinker.
posted by PurplePorpoise at 3:49 PM on October 3, 2005

Rothko, you're irritating me.

If you have a drinking problem, why do you continue drinking?

Because alcoholism is an addiction. Anonymous cant'/won't just stop, at least not at this moment. Don't be deliberately obtuse and pretend you think it's that simple.

If you don't think you have a drinking problem, why are you going to AA meetings?

Anonymous clearly stated that: "I think and actually am pretty sure, that my drinking either could be a problem, or is a problem." and "I know I'm and alcoholic ..." Seems like a good reason to go to AA meetings to me.

At an AA meeting, do you claim you are an alcoholic?

This is an invalid point. It's not a requirement that you admit this when you attend a meeting. It is a requirement (I believe) when you begin the 12 step program.

If you are going to AA meetings, would you accept that your drinking may have an adverse effect on alcoholics present at those meetings?

As long as Anonymous isn't drinking at the meeting, I don't see what the problem is. If an alcoholic had to stop drinking before he or she ever attended a meeting, don't you think that would be a kind of self-defeating system?
posted by Specklet at 3:53 PM on October 3, 2005

can I keep drinking and go to AA at the same time?

Yes. You may be more along the lines of a functioning alcoholic, or you might just be a heavy drinker without a problem. Going to the meetings is a good way to figure out which is which, and there are definitely people at the meetings who are still drinking besides you. Some meetings are more for "I've hit rock bottom" types and some are more for "I have a day job and a family and this monkey on my back..." types. You don't have to be the same type as everyone in the meeting in order to get something out of it, but it's good to know sort of where you stand w/r/t the rest of the group. If you go, participate and are honest, I think that's much more important than whether you're currently drinking or not. You don't drink at the meetings right? Assuming not, you may just be closer to your next drink than other people there, it's an expected part of the process.
posted by jessamyn at 4:04 PM on October 3, 2005

It's anonymous so you don't have to lie.
It's always the lying that bugged me, because if you're drinking and lying about it, people who care to be aware know you are lying and it's just annoying. People are then forced to confront you on it or ignore you.
posted by philida at 4:06 PM on October 3, 2005

be honest at the meetings, as you are in this post.

This is the best and only advice to listen to here.

Go to your meeting, and when it's your turn to talk, just say exactly what you said in your post. Describe your thinking fully. That's what the meeting is for. Asking here is a total dodge - it's like asking counter staff at a hot dog stand how to brew a cappucino. Use the meeting to do what it does: help you find the answers to these questions. If you don't belong there, eventually you will know.

Another possible scenario: you decide right now it isn't for you, stop going to meetings, then you do hit bottom later and go back. A lot of alcoholics have that experience.

Whatever. Just keep going to the meetings, and instead of keeping mum, say exactly what your doubts and questions are. Someone may be able to identify with what you're saying, and you may get some insight, on any given night.
posted by Miko at 4:53 PM on October 3, 2005

You might want to look into Rational Recovery (sorry, no link at hand, but Google Is Your Friend) - it's like AA, but is more of a drinking-management program rather than a drinking-quitting program. As I understand it, the folks at RR recognize that you can recover from alcoholism without completely quitting drinking. So maybe there's your answer.
posted by salad spork at 5:01 PM on October 3, 2005

jessamyn I don't know if you just wrote this quickly, but what's the difference between a functioning alcoholic and a heavy drinker without a problem?
posted by geoff. at 6:02 PM on October 3, 2005

"The only requirement for A.A. membership is a desire to stop drinking" -Tradition Three, the "Big Book", Alchoholics Anonymous.
posted by exlotuseater at 6:09 PM on October 3, 2005

geoff., I don't mean to speak for jessamyn, but my understanding is that a functional alcoholic is an alcoholic whose alcoholism has not become obvious to those around him or her.
posted by amro at 6:16 PM on October 3, 2005

Rational Recovery totally sets off the bullshit meter, seeing as how one of their important steps is "Get authentic Rational Recovery® learning materials.", and a cursory look seems to have all rational recovery materials pointing to one parent company.

I have heard of non-AA recovery groups and programs (mostly for folks who don't want to tie some sort of sprituality into dealing with an addiction), but they all seem to be free or low-cost.

I mean, "To take the strongest action, call 530-621-2667 to register for the next session of AVRT: The Course."

I wouldn't be surprised if the Scientologists are busily writing up plans to acquire them.
posted by fishfucker at 6:37 PM on October 3, 2005

oh, and regarding the question

"What raised an issue with me, was that most of them had hit a bottom point, no job, no life, drinking 24/7, ect. which I'm not at."

i imagine that most people don't *want* to go to AA until they have absolutely no other choice. That is, most folks who drink like you do are going to be thinking "fuck that AA noise, I don't have a problem", and either 1) change their behavior slowly over time as they get older or 2) eventually do hit rock bottom or 3) continue a "low level" alcoholism. Either way, you're probably less likely to see people with that sort of behavior at an AA meeting -- i mean, most people don't feel they have to quit something (and need support to help quit it) until it start causes catastrophic events to occur in their life.

Personally, I don't think having beers every night is a good indicator of alcoholism. I think the best indicator is having a few beers and then NOT being able to stop. In fact, most of the alcoholics I know don't drink every day, because they know if they did that they'd be drinking A LOT. If you drink, say, a couple beers each day but don't feel like you have to finish the case after finishing the second one, I wouldn't really worry about it, because you don't sound like a compulsive drinker -- just someone who likes alcohol.
posted by fishfucker at 6:44 PM on October 3, 2005

What Miko said. Be open, listen to what other people have to say, and don't be *afraid* of judgment on their part - you are all there to help each other, after all.
posted by lorrer at 6:52 PM on October 3, 2005

Rothko, you're irritating me.

Specklet, no offense, but as someone with a violent alcoholic sibling, I could really care less about irritating you and care more about getting Anonymous to answer some hard questions about him or herself.

"If you have a drinking problem, why do you continue drinking?"

Because alcoholism is an addiction. Anonymous cant'/won't just stop, at least not at this moment. Don't be deliberately obtuse and pretend you think it's that simple.

The question is deliberate and specific: If you have a drinking problem, why do you keep drinking and not acknowledge the problem fully?

"If you don't think you have a drinking problem, why are you going to AA meetings?"

Anonymous clearly stated that: "I think and actually am pretty sure, that my drinking either could be a problem, or is a problem." and "I know I'm and alcoholic ..." Seems like a good reason to go to AA meetings to me.

Specklet: If you are an alcoholic and you go to AA, why do you keep trying to rationalize continuing your condition?

"At an AA meeting, do you claim you are an alcoholic?"

This is an invalid point. It's not a requirement that you admit this when you attend a meeting. It is a requirement (I believe) when you begin the 12 step program.

No, it is completely valid. Do you acknowledge your condition? Anonymous' question hems and haws around this.

"If you are going to AA meetings, would you accept that your drinking may have an adverse effect on alcoholics present at those meetings?"

As long as Anonymous isn't drinking at the meeting, I don't see what the problem is. If an alcoholic had to stop drinking before he or she ever attended a meeting, don't you think that would be a kind of self-defeating system?
posted by Specklet at 3:53 PM PST on October 3 [!]

No, I really don't. Acknowledging you have a problem starts by making an effort to change your environment. And continuing to drink while rationalizing the condition is almost as bad when doing so sitting in a room with people genuinely trying to repair their lives.

Specklet, I respect you, but after years of codependency, I'll tell you in no uncertain terms that at some point you have to ask the people you care about some hard, serious questions and hope they figure it out, or you continue enabling the disease.
posted by Rothko at 7:10 PM on October 3, 2005

Hm. My danger sense is a bit tingled by some things you said. It sounds as if one of the things you're getting out of AA is a confidence that you're not as bad off as you could be. By being around some really messed up people, you make yourself feel better about your life and your drinking. That's actually counterproductive, if anything. Go to AA because you want to stop drinking, not to get permission to drink. You should set your own standards for what is okay, not compare yourself to the worst-off people you can find.

I'd suggest comparing your resolve and discipline to that of the AA folks who are now completely sober. You might not look so hot in that light anymore.
posted by scarabic at 8:55 PM on October 3, 2005

I don't drink, and when I do I don't have a drinking problem, and they let me go to the occasional AA meeting.

You will have no prolbem going to AA. Indeed, I have it on authority from a close source who knows AA *very* well that one of the saddest things is when people quit going to AA because they are drinking. AA is there to help you, through thick and thin. It'll do something for you or it won't, but they're not in the habit of kicking people out, from what I've seen.

That being said, AA is sort of a franchise thing, so it could conceivably vary by which meeting you go to. If you live in a bigger city, you will likely have many choices of AA meetings to attend. You could try several, and find one that works for you. Or maybe you'll see alcoholics and realize you aren't one. But it won't hurt you to go, and they won't kick you out. There's no guarantee that everyone will be nice to you, but you don't ever get that.

(And you don't have to talk at all, let alone say "my name is Jonh, and I'm an alcoholic." I've heard many simply say their name).
posted by teece at 10:51 PM on October 3, 2005

Rothko, while I sympathize with your situation, I strongly disagree with what you seem to be implying with your last question:

If you are going to AA meetings, would you accept that your drinking may have an adverse effect on alcoholics present at those meetings?

That is a dangerous attitude, and one which needs to be slapped down. Even drunk-right-now people are welcome at meetings and do not adversely affect the meetings. They are not unwelcome in any way. As quoted above, the only requirement for membership is a desire to stop drinking, and AA is quite serious about that statement.
posted by Invoke at 11:32 PM on October 3, 2005

In AA speak 'the only requirement for membership is a desire to stop drinking'.

Pick a few different meetings. Hang out and listen. Read up on the Big Book and the 12/12. Observe it and do your homework and then make the decision if you want to follow through with working the 12 steps.
posted by pieoverdone at 6:21 AM on October 4, 2005

I don't mean to speak for jessamyn, but my understanding is that a functional alcoholic is an alcoholic whose alcoholism has not become obvious to those around him or her.

That's it more or less. I have a functioning alcoholic in my family. Successful, holds down a job, doesn't drink in public, but comes home every night and starts drinking at 6 and doesn't stop until he goes to bed. Every night. Most people who know him don't even know he drinks at all but if the wine runs out, he can not function at all. Heavy drinkers in my book enjoy drinking and drink often and heavily but if they're stuck someplace without alcohol they won't go to extreme measures just to have a drink, don't break out in a sweat, don't get abusive towards other people. At that point it goes beyond strong preference and spills over into addiction. Sorry if I was unclear, I didn't mean to split hairs over definitions and I know for many people the definitions fall out in different ways.

The key for me with the world of AA is that however you drink, you've lost control over it and that is diminishing your life in some way. For some people that's because they can't keep a job, stay healthy/alive, whatever. For others it's just because it's causing them to fight with their family, or be unable to drive themselves places, or costing them too much, or embarassing them, or some other more minor than life-threatening concern. AA [and other recovery mechanisms, but that's the one I'm most familiar with] help give you something you can control [ go to meetings, talk to people etc] to try to help with the things you can't control.
posted by jessamyn at 7:00 AM on October 4, 2005

on hitting bottom ... it's pretty much where you define the bottom to be ... in other words, when you hit it, you don't have to keep digging, even if it doesn't seem that bad to other people

it's a myth that all alcoholics are in denial ... some know they are alcoholics but don't care enough about themselves to stop drinking ... or they think the worst of the consequences may pass them by ... and they could even be right

you know why you like drinking ... possibly you should ask yourself why you don't like it
posted by pyramid termite at 8:36 AM on October 4, 2005

Rothko, I gotcha. I think if you had said at the beginning of your initial comment something like "I have experience with this, and it's time for you to ask yourself some tough questions", I wouldn't have taken umbrage with your tone.

But if you'd done that, you'd run the risk of being accused of giving Anonymous unasked for advice and not answering the question outright...
posted by Specklet at 10:32 AM on October 4, 2005

In my experience "drunk-right-now" people are not welcome at meetings. People who are obviously under the influence are usually asked to leave. Most often someone with some extended sobriety leaves with them to make sure they are safe. People who are still drinking but not under the influence at the time of the meeting are completely welcome.

scarabic's point My danger sense is a bit tingled by some things you said. It sounds as if one of the things you're getting out of AA is a confidence that you're not as bad off as you could be. is completely valid but it can also have the opposite effect. When I heard how bad it could get my immediate thought was "I don't want that to be me".
posted by Carbolic at 10:43 AM on October 4, 2005

Wow, really Carbolic? Unless the person was actively being disruptive, I'd never stand for that at any meeting where I was present, nor I dare say would anyone I know.

Different areas of the country vary in attitude, I suppose.
posted by Invoke at 4:19 PM on October 4, 2005