Help me land a job as a barista.
August 9, 2013 2:13 PM Subscribe
I am both severely over and terribly under qualified.
A barista job has opened up for graveyard shift in $up_and_coming_hip_area, a block away from where I live! I want it. Its a 15-20/week job. Problem is, they want a résumé, and want me to include Service Industry experience. And there in lies the problem:
I haven't worked in the service industry since I was 17 as a dishwasher, (I'm now in my early 30's). In fact, I haven't had a boss since I was 20 - since then, I've been working for myself as a computer consultant/hacker dude, that takes up residence at coffee shops and types away code. I'd like a change in $main_job, which means retool myself with new ways of doing things (languages, techniques, etc) but I can't do it, without income flow - my family cannot help out floating me, my friends have been absolutely the best, but I can't ask for any more.
Thus, the somewhat short-term (6 months, a year - who knows?) coffee shop job. Along with that (and because of my self-employed nature), I have also lived a very eclectic life of traveling and adventure, doing things that put me on covers (plural) of local magazines as somewhat of a Pretty Interesting Man of the World. That's great, but I need some financial stability to move on with life, whatever direction that is.
So, what do I do? I'd like to list my work experience, PLUS all my life experience (to show I'm interesting and that people want me to serve them coffee, I assume), and then, what? List my time working as a dishwasher, 3 summers in high school, as well as a pizza baker when I was 16?
I'm not worried at all about making coffee drinks, or dealing with customers, or handling stress. I'm a huge flirt - more so than most baristas (my "Type" used to BE baristas, which makes me feel I outflirt even them!).
Another interesting facet is that I know the owners of the shop, and they also just so happen to run a local web hosting company, and we know each other because of those ties - they've never offered me a job in their company. Do I leverage this? It sounds like such a stupid question, but I've been doing things myself for so long, that it's hard to understand how, "jobs" work.
Thank you for your patience, as I show my complete lack of knowledge, of what I think is something so mundane and easy for others. It's sort of a hit to the ol' ego to go from, "Self-Employeed, "business owner", to coffee slinger, but swallowing that, I need to make some money!
A barista job has opened up for graveyard shift in $up_and_coming_hip_area, a block away from where I live! I want it. Its a 15-20/week job. Problem is, they want a résumé, and want me to include Service Industry experience. And there in lies the problem:
I haven't worked in the service industry since I was 17 as a dishwasher, (I'm now in my early 30's). In fact, I haven't had a boss since I was 20 - since then, I've been working for myself as a computer consultant/hacker dude, that takes up residence at coffee shops and types away code. I'd like a change in $main_job, which means retool myself with new ways of doing things (languages, techniques, etc) but I can't do it, without income flow - my family cannot help out floating me, my friends have been absolutely the best, but I can't ask for any more.
Thus, the somewhat short-term (6 months, a year - who knows?) coffee shop job. Along with that (and because of my self-employed nature), I have also lived a very eclectic life of traveling and adventure, doing things that put me on covers (plural) of local magazines as somewhat of a Pretty Interesting Man of the World. That's great, but I need some financial stability to move on with life, whatever direction that is.
So, what do I do? I'd like to list my work experience, PLUS all my life experience (to show I'm interesting and that people want me to serve them coffee, I assume), and then, what? List my time working as a dishwasher, 3 summers in high school, as well as a pizza baker when I was 16?
I'm not worried at all about making coffee drinks, or dealing with customers, or handling stress. I'm a huge flirt - more so than most baristas (my "Type" used to BE baristas, which makes me feel I outflirt even them!).
Another interesting facet is that I know the owners of the shop, and they also just so happen to run a local web hosting company, and we know each other because of those ties - they've never offered me a job in their company. Do I leverage this? It sounds like such a stupid question, but I've been doing things myself for so long, that it's hard to understand how, "jobs" work.
Thank you for your patience, as I show my complete lack of knowledge, of what I think is something so mundane and easy for others. It's sort of a hit to the ol' ego to go from, "Self-Employeed, "business owner", to coffee slinger, but swallowing that, I need to make some money!
Submit your resume and the application, but do it in person with the people you know.
Also maybe look into whether or not you need to have a food handler's certification in the state where you're working. Having that sorted before you apply will help your case.
posted by carsonb at 2:22 PM on August 9, 2013
Also maybe look into whether or not you need to have a food handler's certification in the state where you're working. Having that sorted before you apply will help your case.
posted by carsonb at 2:22 PM on August 9, 2013
Also, whatever you do don't mention that you have an endpoint in mind for how long you'd like to work at the job. Your potential employers won't like hiring you as much if they know they'll just have to go through the process again in 6 months.
To be clear, I'm not encouraging you to lie about how long you intend to serve coffee for them (especially if asked directly). Only don't volunteer the information.
posted by carsonb at 2:24 PM on August 9, 2013 [1 favorite]
To be clear, I'm not encouraging you to lie about how long you intend to serve coffee for them (especially if asked directly). Only don't volunteer the information.
posted by carsonb at 2:24 PM on August 9, 2013 [1 favorite]
Response by poster: If you know the owners and want to work there, the obvious thing to do is to talk to them. Why stick your resume in with a pile of others when you can just ask for the job?
I hope to not threadsit, but in one word: Pride. It's embarrassing to me to have to ask for a job. This could be for a barista job, or a 50k/year programming job.
With the latter, I've had terrible experiences trying to play the Monster.com/recruiter game, or just trying to jobs from Craigslist. The one time I got an email reply, it was followed up by a successful phone interview, which was followed up by a successful sit-in interview (I'm that guy that can take total control of a conversation at a party, and get everyone bellowing with laughter), which lead to them GIVING me the job, only to rescind the offer a few days before I started. And then they posted the job up again? Very confusing - and hurtful to my, it seems, fragile ego.
When setbacks occur, I tend to just keep doing what I've always done with my own stuff, knowing its past its expiration date, and I'd like to change. It's not a very healthy cycle.
posted by alex_skazat at 2:27 PM on August 9, 2013
I hope to not threadsit, but in one word: Pride. It's embarrassing to me to have to ask for a job. This could be for a barista job, or a 50k/year programming job.
With the latter, I've had terrible experiences trying to play the Monster.com/recruiter game, or just trying to jobs from Craigslist. The one time I got an email reply, it was followed up by a successful phone interview, which was followed up by a successful sit-in interview (I'm that guy that can take total control of a conversation at a party, and get everyone bellowing with laughter), which lead to them GIVING me the job, only to rescind the offer a few days before I started. And then they posted the job up again? Very confusing - and hurtful to my, it seems, fragile ego.
When setbacks occur, I tend to just keep doing what I've always done with my own stuff, knowing its past its expiration date, and I'd like to change. It's not a very healthy cycle.
posted by alex_skazat at 2:27 PM on August 9, 2013
foodgeek is right. I'd send them an email before doing anything else. "Hey, friends, crazy thing, but I saw there's a barista position opening up in your shop, and it'd actually be perfect for my schedule right now. I'm thinking of dropping my resume in the stack - any thoughts or suggestions?" And they may well give the job to you just like that - truthfully, the majority of jobs get distributed via connections, not through the resume slush pile. At worst, they'll say something like, "Hey, we didn't know you were a barista! Awesome. We've put X-the-manager in charge of hiring, but send along your application and we'll make sure he looks out for it."
It is worth noting, however, that depending on the type of place, barista may not be an entry-level position...there's a lot of people with a frightening amount of coffee experience running around, and just cause you think you'd can do the job doesn't mean you'll necessarily be "qualified."
posted by pretentious illiterate at 2:27 PM on August 9, 2013 [5 favorites]
It is worth noting, however, that depending on the type of place, barista may not be an entry-level position...there's a lot of people with a frightening amount of coffee experience running around, and just cause you think you'd can do the job doesn't mean you'll necessarily be "qualified."
posted by pretentious illiterate at 2:27 PM on August 9, 2013 [5 favorites]
If you're a freelancer, you service clients ALL THE TIME. Emphasize that.
Plus, also, the whole knowing the owners thing is probably the main thing you need to worry about.
posted by Kololo at 2:31 PM on August 9, 2013 [2 favorites]
Plus, also, the whole knowing the owners thing is probably the main thing you need to worry about.
posted by Kololo at 2:31 PM on August 9, 2013 [2 favorites]
You gotta get over your ego. Seriously! Take your pride off the table and be firm with yourself when it comes to these sorts of thing. There's no asking and giving here. You are applying for a position and either you're qualified or you aren't. It is going to behoove you to talk to the managers of the place you want to barista for. Don't let an immature view of how jobs work prevent you from getting the job you want.
posted by These Birds of a Feather at 2:32 PM on August 9, 2013 [13 favorites]
posted by These Birds of a Feather at 2:32 PM on August 9, 2013 [13 favorites]
This is what cover letters are for. Become a person with a story, and not just a resume. Make them enthusiastic about becoming key players in that story.
posted by malhouse at 2:34 PM on August 9, 2013 [2 favorites]
posted by malhouse at 2:34 PM on August 9, 2013 [2 favorites]
Approach the owners directly, and spin it that you've been looking for a barista job because you love coffee, you love people, and you are looking for a line of work to counterbalance your more solitary knowledge-worker career.
But I think you need to seriously dial back on how ever-so-awesome you are in terms of your travel adventures, and you DEFINITELY need to drop the idea that being a flirt is something an employer considers desirable. People skills, yes; flirting, no.
posted by nacho fries at 2:40 PM on August 9, 2013 [11 favorites]
But I think you need to seriously dial back on how ever-so-awesome you are in terms of your travel adventures, and you DEFINITELY need to drop the idea that being a flirt is something an employer considers desirable. People skills, yes; flirting, no.
posted by nacho fries at 2:40 PM on August 9, 2013 [11 favorites]
Another interesting facet is that I know the owners of the shop... Do I leverage this?
Yes, absolutely! If you don't want to tell them you need the money, say (assuming it's true) that you love coffee and the atmosphere in the coffee shop, and you want to learn about the business.
I'm not worried at all about making coffee drinks, or dealing with customers, or handling stress. I'm a huge flirt
In the nicest possible way I'd suggest you get worried about it and fast. 99% of people will not want to flirt with you, they'll want their damn drink. I've never been a barista per se, but I've done a lot of retail/customer service and I did once have a job involving making coffee drinks for customers. But if you've never done this kind of work in general it's HARD. Acting as if you're above it or prepared despite a lack of training will not help you with employers, customers, or co-workers.
posted by DestinationUnknown at 2:41 PM on August 9, 2013 [16 favorites]
Yes, absolutely! If you don't want to tell them you need the money, say (assuming it's true) that you love coffee and the atmosphere in the coffee shop, and you want to learn about the business.
I'm not worried at all about making coffee drinks, or dealing with customers, or handling stress. I'm a huge flirt
In the nicest possible way I'd suggest you get worried about it and fast. 99% of people will not want to flirt with you, they'll want their damn drink. I've never been a barista per se, but I've done a lot of retail/customer service and I did once have a job involving making coffee drinks for customers. But if you've never done this kind of work in general it's HARD. Acting as if you're above it or prepared despite a lack of training will not help you with employers, customers, or co-workers.
posted by DestinationUnknown at 2:41 PM on August 9, 2013 [16 favorites]
I hope to not threadsit, but in one word: Pride
Ever watch Pulp Fiction? Marsellus Wallace has the best quote in it regarding pride "the night of the fight, you may feel a slight sting. That's pride fucking with you. Fuck pride. Pride only hurts, it never helps".
Seriously, if you hang out at the coffee shop enough - just ask them. We all have to do what is needed when it comes to paying bills. You said you already reached your limit with friends and family, start earning your money until you get your dream job.
posted by lpcxa0 at 2:42 PM on August 9, 2013 [1 favorite]
Ever watch Pulp Fiction? Marsellus Wallace has the best quote in it regarding pride "the night of the fight, you may feel a slight sting. That's pride fucking with you. Fuck pride. Pride only hurts, it never helps".
Seriously, if you hang out at the coffee shop enough - just ask them. We all have to do what is needed when it comes to paying bills. You said you already reached your limit with friends and family, start earning your money until you get your dream job.
posted by lpcxa0 at 2:42 PM on August 9, 2013 [1 favorite]
Pride. It's embarrassing to me to have to ask for a job.
This is stupid. This is how you get jobs. Handing someone a resume is asking for a job. Talking to the owner who you already know is asking for a job too, but in a way that's a lot more likely to succeed. If you want the job, ask. If you don't want the job, sit around worrying about how to list a magazine cover appearance on a resume.
posted by tylerkaraszewski at 2:43 PM on August 9, 2013 [14 favorites]
This is stupid. This is how you get jobs. Handing someone a resume is asking for a job. Talking to the owner who you already know is asking for a job too, but in a way that's a lot more likely to succeed. If you want the job, ask. If you don't want the job, sit around worrying about how to list a magazine cover appearance on a resume.
posted by tylerkaraszewski at 2:43 PM on August 9, 2013 [14 favorites]
Former overly-qualified barista here: I got the job because I got the interview; I got the interview because I knew one of the store managers. I did have retail/customer service experience, and I had experience working as a leader and member of a team.
Do you really want this job, or do you want some platonic ideal of what it means to be a barista? It's not about flirting and putting on a one-person show. People like someone who is friendly and engaging, but really, they want their coffee, they want it right, and they want it now. The customer is the star of the show; the customer takes charge of the tip jar and makes it bellow with dollars (or ring hollowly with pennies.)
You have been your own boss; are you prepared to give due deference and respect to your supervisor, who may be younger/less credentialed/less experienced in other aspects of life than you? Are you prepared to take out trash, clean up spills, perform routine cleaning and maintenance instead of interacting with customers? If so, great :-)
Good luck!
posted by Schielisque at 2:44 PM on August 9, 2013 [11 favorites]
Do you really want this job, or do you want some platonic ideal of what it means to be a barista? It's not about flirting and putting on a one-person show. People like someone who is friendly and engaging, but really, they want their coffee, they want it right, and they want it now. The customer is the star of the show; the customer takes charge of the tip jar and makes it bellow with dollars (or ring hollowly with pennies.)
You have been your own boss; are you prepared to give due deference and respect to your supervisor, who may be younger/less credentialed/less experienced in other aspects of life than you? Are you prepared to take out trash, clean up spills, perform routine cleaning and maintenance instead of interacting with customers? If so, great :-)
Good luck!
posted by Schielisque at 2:44 PM on August 9, 2013 [11 favorites]
"I am both severely over and terribly under qualified."
I don't see how this is true. Can you competently do what a barista does and show up every day? Then you're probably qualified. Are you planning to leave the job for something "better"? Then you're not really overqualified.
Also, asking for the job is networking. That's a normal thing.
posted by dosterm at 2:47 PM on August 9, 2013
I don't see how this is true. Can you competently do what a barista does and show up every day? Then you're probably qualified. Are you planning to leave the job for something "better"? Then you're not really overqualified.
Also, asking for the job is networking. That's a normal thing.
posted by dosterm at 2:47 PM on August 9, 2013
I would want to know what you will bring to the table besides flirting (seriously?), and I'd be concerned from what you've written that you're so independent that getting you to take instruction and direction is going to be its own learning curve, on top of learning the machines. If that comes up, you should have some way to demonstrate that's not going to be a problem. And then not let it be a problem.
posted by bleep at 2:56 PM on August 9, 2013 [3 favorites]
posted by bleep at 2:56 PM on August 9, 2013 [3 favorites]
From what you've said here it really sounds only like you're underqualified for this job; no matter how you write that resume you basically have no relevant experience to offer and you've never done any work that suggests one way or the other how you'll cope with being a barista. I think this is a case for swallowing your pride and begging, essentially, for a favor. You need to talk to the owners and say "look, my resume really doesn't make the case for me as a barista, I know, but I have #REASONS why I really need a job like this, I'm pretty sure I can learn fast and I'm definitely committed to doing the best job I can do." If they know you then they know everything they need to know about your personal charisma and how much of an asset they think that will be for you in the job. But in this case making the humble pitch is definitely going to help you because the very, very LAST person you ever want to hire for any job is the person whose CV and cover letter gives off the "I'm too good for this crap job" vibe.
posted by yoink at 2:57 PM on August 9, 2013 [7 favorites]
posted by yoink at 2:57 PM on August 9, 2013 [7 favorites]
Another interesting facet is that I know the owners of the shop
Yeah, you ask them...or sort of just apply directly TO them. I honestly can't think of a barista that I know who hasn't gotten their job without being a longtime customer, friend of a fellow employee, or a friend of the owner. Barista jobs are just sort of like that.
posted by furnace.heart at 2:58 PM on August 9, 2013
Yeah, you ask them...or sort of just apply directly TO them. I honestly can't think of a barista that I know who hasn't gotten their job without being a longtime customer, friend of a fellow employee, or a friend of the owner. Barista jobs are just sort of like that.
posted by furnace.heart at 2:58 PM on August 9, 2013
As others have already noted, it would be tremendously silly if you DIDN'T just ask the owners for the job, given that you know them.
I say this gently: get over yourself, honey. There's a connection between this and your self-described "fragile ego." Everybody asks for jobs. Turning in a resume is asking for a job, whether it's being turned in to someone you know, or to a complete stranger. When you ask someone you know for a job, it's not like you show up empty-handed and just expect them to give it to you; you bring your resume along and hand it to that person.
What's more embarrassing: asking for a job, or having no job merely because you were afraid to ask for one?
posted by sevensnowflakes at 3:05 PM on August 9, 2013 [2 favorites]
I say this gently: get over yourself, honey. There's a connection between this and your self-described "fragile ego." Everybody asks for jobs. Turning in a resume is asking for a job, whether it's being turned in to someone you know, or to a complete stranger. When you ask someone you know for a job, it's not like you show up empty-handed and just expect them to give it to you; you bring your resume along and hand it to that person.
What's more embarrassing: asking for a job, or having no job merely because you were afraid to ask for one?
posted by sevensnowflakes at 3:05 PM on August 9, 2013 [2 favorites]
The whole bit about your ego getting in the way of asking the owners for a job seems completely absurd - assuming you got the job by applying with everyone else, how do you expect the owners to not know that you work there?
posted by foodgeek at 3:17 PM on August 9, 2013 [1 favorite]
posted by foodgeek at 3:17 PM on August 9, 2013 [1 favorite]
Response by poster: Schielisque : Do you really want this job, or do you want some platonic ideal of what it means to be a barista?
It's for the money - def. for the money. I don't want my self-created job anymore, but I need some sort of cash flow, to give me a window to figure out something better for myself. If some exceptionally boring office job opened up that was of some sort of living wage - even doing something similar to what I'm doing now, and it was offered to me, I'd take it too. I've had no luck figuring how that works.
dosterm: Also, asking for the job is networking. That's a normal thing.
Agreed, but I'm abnormal. I made up a job that works by mostly selling software (passive income). I've not needed to network, outside an email or two. I find people that go hard on the networking angle when out almost conniving, or at the very least dishonest. These types of people, who I do help, seem to me, just to be using me.
It seems that disaster happens anytime I try to do the network dance in software-related fields. For example, I was asked to speak at a Ignite Boulder of my travels and adventures and such, which I accepted (networking!). It was a talk I did at a ">Pecha Kucha i had done, a few months before - it went great, I've been asked back, twice again.
The formats are similar, so with a little editing, I'm good to go. My turn to speak, and they screw up my slides: all out of order. They refuse to fix it, and I have to ad-lib this mess of a deck on the spot, in front of hundreds of people, while the timer is going. This is when (do they still do this?) they had basically a live group tweet feed ragging on me, the entire time in back of me, projected right up against my own slides.
This doesn't harbor anything positive for me, especially: trust. It's almost like they want a shit-show. I don't want to work for anyone like that, so off I go, doing my own stuff, again.
So, why barista? It's a job that could travel (I like to travel, live abroad), and coffee, after one, MAYBE two things, is one of my favorite things in the world. As DEVO says, I'm through, being cool.
posted by alex_skazat at 3:28 PM on August 9, 2013
It's for the money - def. for the money. I don't want my self-created job anymore, but I need some sort of cash flow, to give me a window to figure out something better for myself. If some exceptionally boring office job opened up that was of some sort of living wage - even doing something similar to what I'm doing now, and it was offered to me, I'd take it too. I've had no luck figuring how that works.
dosterm: Also, asking for the job is networking. That's a normal thing.
Agreed, but I'm abnormal. I made up a job that works by mostly selling software (passive income). I've not needed to network, outside an email or two. I find people that go hard on the networking angle when out almost conniving, or at the very least dishonest. These types of people, who I do help, seem to me, just to be using me.
It seems that disaster happens anytime I try to do the network dance in software-related fields. For example, I was asked to speak at a Ignite Boulder of my travels and adventures and such, which I accepted (networking!). It was a talk I did at a ">Pecha Kucha i had done, a few months before - it went great, I've been asked back, twice again.
The formats are similar, so with a little editing, I'm good to go. My turn to speak, and they screw up my slides: all out of order. They refuse to fix it, and I have to ad-lib this mess of a deck on the spot, in front of hundreds of people, while the timer is going. This is when (do they still do this?) they had basically a live group tweet feed ragging on me, the entire time in back of me, projected right up against my own slides.
This doesn't harbor anything positive for me, especially: trust. It's almost like they want a shit-show. I don't want to work for anyone like that, so off I go, doing my own stuff, again.
So, why barista? It's a job that could travel (I like to travel, live abroad), and coffee, after one, MAYBE two things, is one of my favorite things in the world. As DEVO says, I'm through, being cool.
posted by alex_skazat at 3:28 PM on August 9, 2013
The main obstacle between you and this job is you. This is seriously a no brainer and you have built up the whole job search into what is basically an excerpt from a Gothic novel where you're the tragic hero whose hubris is both his greatest gift and his most tragic flaw.
Based on what you've said thus far I would like to recommend that you NOT apply for the barista position for the following reasons:
1) You are unwilling to let go of your pride and do the things necessary to get the job even though said things are neither complicated nor truly ego damaging despite your insistence otherwise.
2) You lack professional social skills and do not seem able to perform the duties of a service oriented position without making those duties all about you rather than about meeting the needs of your customers.
3) You are a self-proclaimed flirt and don't seem to get that such a thing is not an appropriate thing to be in the line of work you wish to pursue.
4) You are showing a lot of narcissistic tendencies that I think are your real root issue and the real thing that is hindering your career and job search in general.
Please do not seek a job in the service industry until you are willing to be properly serviceful regardless of your ulterior motives for pursuing such a job. If you think you can get over yourself and really do want this job, talk to the managers and let them know you are interested in applying, and regardless of what they say in response, submit your application that day and rejoice because you will have succeeded in your quest to apply for the barista position with no part of your ego or self worth bruised.
But get over your unnecessarily dramatic view on this first.
posted by These Birds of a Feather at 4:05 PM on August 9, 2013 [19 favorites]
Based on what you've said thus far I would like to recommend that you NOT apply for the barista position for the following reasons:
1) You are unwilling to let go of your pride and do the things necessary to get the job even though said things are neither complicated nor truly ego damaging despite your insistence otherwise.
2) You lack professional social skills and do not seem able to perform the duties of a service oriented position without making those duties all about you rather than about meeting the needs of your customers.
3) You are a self-proclaimed flirt and don't seem to get that such a thing is not an appropriate thing to be in the line of work you wish to pursue.
4) You are showing a lot of narcissistic tendencies that I think are your real root issue and the real thing that is hindering your career and job search in general.
Please do not seek a job in the service industry until you are willing to be properly serviceful regardless of your ulterior motives for pursuing such a job. If you think you can get over yourself and really do want this job, talk to the managers and let them know you are interested in applying, and regardless of what they say in response, submit your application that day and rejoice because you will have succeeded in your quest to apply for the barista position with no part of your ego or self worth bruised.
But get over your unnecessarily dramatic view on this first.
posted by These Birds of a Feather at 4:05 PM on August 9, 2013 [19 favorites]
Response by poster: JOB POSITION UPDATE:
Well, according to a post from the contact I know, the job went from, "Service Industry Experienced Required" to, "We'll Train You, No Experience Necessary".
That makes me feel as if there's no reason to not try for the job, and a little better about contacting my buddy about it, and needing to beg him to pull a string or two and be on my side of the ring about this whole, "experience" thing.
It also makes me very curious on why they haven't been able to fill this position that's been open for weeks. The graveyard hours is probably why (11pm - 5am on weekends).
posted by alex_skazat at 4:05 PM on August 9, 2013
Well, according to a post from the contact I know, the job went from, "Service Industry Experienced Required" to, "We'll Train You, No Experience Necessary".
That makes me feel as if there's no reason to not try for the job, and a little better about contacting my buddy about it, and needing to beg him to pull a string or two and be on my side of the ring about this whole, "experience" thing.
It also makes me very curious on why they haven't been able to fill this position that's been open for weeks. The graveyard hours is probably why (11pm - 5am on weekends).
posted by alex_skazat at 4:05 PM on August 9, 2013
A barista is not a passive position for art. A barista is selling coffee. Every really good salesman asks "Would you like fries with that?" with everything they sell. If you aren't willing to walk up to the owner and sell yourself to them, how the heck do you expect to shlep coffee? Every job I have ever had has required that I offer them the dreaded 'value proposition' and I don't work sales - in the least bit. Either I'm selling my ideas, my opinions, my philosophy or whatever it is that I need to convince somebody to do. That's my job. That's everyone's job.
I've been a barista and a roaster (1994-1995 so it's been a few years). I landed the job not because I knew the owners, but because I sold the fact that I worked 3rd shift freight the year before and they happened to also run a market. I landed the job working freight because I knew the owner and he knew I was a good kid, and he hired good kids. He was even willing to work with the fact that I was washing dishes at a second job.
When I graduated college, I landed my first job because I was a damn good project programmer and my roommate's company happened to need a software engineer. His favorable introduction of me and a killer interview was me selling myself.
A few years later when I left engineering and went back to the kitchen and somebody sat me down and said 'your diploma means you've got options. Options mean that you won't last. If you want any job in a kitchen, you're going to have to prove it by getting a culinary degree.' He was right. I got the degree and landed a kitchen job almost instantly - and by networking through my school through one of my instructors who had left the school to work where I was going to. Notice a theme here? Its scatterbrained and ill-advised to go the exact route I took, but every step along the way I was networking to get what I wanted. Later on, when I left cooking, proving that chef that told me I'd wash out because I had options correct, I networked into a great company that I was far overqualified for my initial position. Four positions, and eight years later with that company, I've networked out of that company and into my next company while also networking with others with a modestly successful consultancy business on the side. Every. step. has. been. networking. and. selling.
It doesn't matter how interesting you are, or how witty people think you are - if you aren't willing to actually network to what you want, you aren't going to help the business you want to be part of grow.
And that means they won't hire you. truth.
posted by Nanukthedog at 4:05 PM on August 9, 2013 [2 favorites]
I've been a barista and a roaster (1994-1995 so it's been a few years). I landed the job not because I knew the owners, but because I sold the fact that I worked 3rd shift freight the year before and they happened to also run a market. I landed the job working freight because I knew the owner and he knew I was a good kid, and he hired good kids. He was even willing to work with the fact that I was washing dishes at a second job.
When I graduated college, I landed my first job because I was a damn good project programmer and my roommate's company happened to need a software engineer. His favorable introduction of me and a killer interview was me selling myself.
A few years later when I left engineering and went back to the kitchen and somebody sat me down and said 'your diploma means you've got options. Options mean that you won't last. If you want any job in a kitchen, you're going to have to prove it by getting a culinary degree.' He was right. I got the degree and landed a kitchen job almost instantly - and by networking through my school through one of my instructors who had left the school to work where I was going to. Notice a theme here? Its scatterbrained and ill-advised to go the exact route I took, but every step along the way I was networking to get what I wanted. Later on, when I left cooking, proving that chef that told me I'd wash out because I had options correct, I networked into a great company that I was far overqualified for my initial position. Four positions, and eight years later with that company, I've networked out of that company and into my next company while also networking with others with a modestly successful consultancy business on the side. Every. step. has. been. networking. and. selling.
It doesn't matter how interesting you are, or how witty people think you are - if you aren't willing to actually network to what you want, you aren't going to help the business you want to be part of grow.
And that means they won't hire you. truth.
posted by Nanukthedog at 4:05 PM on August 9, 2013 [2 favorites]
Response by poster: These Birds of a Feather : The main obstacle between you and this job is you. This is seriously a no brainer and you have built up the whole job search into what is basically an excerpt from a Gothic novel where you're the tragic hero whose hubris is both his greatest gift and his most tragic flaw.
I meant to post this before, but I need you to follow me around and "reality check" me for a few weeks. I'm need of a serious tune up. :)
I know I've got a extra-large amount of pride and stubbornness. When all you've got is yourself (I became an orphan early in my life, after many snowflake episodes of loss), all you've got is yourself and what seems easy for others, isn't so easy for you.
posted by alex_skazat at 4:09 PM on August 9, 2013
I meant to post this before, but I need you to follow me around and "reality check" me for a few weeks. I'm need of a serious tune up. :)
I know I've got a extra-large amount of pride and stubbornness. When all you've got is yourself (I became an orphan early in my life, after many snowflake episodes of loss), all you've got is yourself and what seems easy for others, isn't so easy for you.
posted by alex_skazat at 4:09 PM on August 9, 2013
I'm having a lot of trouble parsing what you are saying in your followup. Does this coffee shop have other locations abroad? How does travel factor into this job? I'm also unsure what you are trying to say about the conference you presented in.
It seems like social skills might not be your strength, which will not help you in a barista position. However, having previous barista training is not something that is 100% necessary - it's definitely nice, but barista is a common first job for high schoolers, and most people can be trained quickly. You want to highlight your people skills, ability to work in a team, any coffee or food prep/safety experience you have. Be prepared to explain why you are making a career transition. Do NOT mention any desire to flirt or date fellow baristas - huge red flag to employers.
You would be crazy not to talk to the owners/any staff you are friendly with in person. It will look very strange to see the resume of someone they know, who someone never mentioned his application. This is mutually beneficial - they need someone to do the work, you need work. People often prefer to hire someone they know, so they know what they are getting into.
posted by fermezporte at 4:11 PM on August 9, 2013
It seems like social skills might not be your strength, which will not help you in a barista position. However, having previous barista training is not something that is 100% necessary - it's definitely nice, but barista is a common first job for high schoolers, and most people can be trained quickly. You want to highlight your people skills, ability to work in a team, any coffee or food prep/safety experience you have. Be prepared to explain why you are making a career transition. Do NOT mention any desire to flirt or date fellow baristas - huge red flag to employers.
You would be crazy not to talk to the owners/any staff you are friendly with in person. It will look very strange to see the resume of someone they know, who someone never mentioned his application. This is mutually beneficial - they need someone to do the work, you need work. People often prefer to hire someone they know, so they know what they are getting into.
posted by fermezporte at 4:11 PM on August 9, 2013
Response by poster: fermezporte: I'm having a lot of trouble parsing what you are saying in your followup. Does this coffee shop have other locations abroad? How does travel factor into this job? I'm also unsure what you are trying to say about the conference you presented in.
Meaning, I can sling coffee in France, at a resort if I needed to. Knowing French and English could certainly help.
It seems like social skills might not be your strength, which will not help you in a barista position.
I'm a dyed-in-wool introvert, but upon meeting me, you'd probably wonder where the hell I get all this self-confidence from. Perhaps like many introverts I've learned to put on a "Now I'm going to act social" mask. It drains my pyschic-battery quicker than acting distant and awkward, but it seems to get me through those occasions.
Being thrust in the spotlight: having feature articles written about me (and getting the cover), being a speaker, sharing my life, etc is natural: 3 weeks ago, I performed, along with my band to 4500 people, as a surprise guest on a stop of a huge music tour, for an act that you've heard of (and I want to keep mum, as is band rules - but: Rock and Roll Hall of Famer). Couldn't have been any less nervous about it.
Attending to the wants/needs/desires of a line of costumers for a luxury product wouldn't phase me one bit.
...and now I'm threadsitting. So I'll hold off replying every 15 minutes. I appreciate all your (continued!) answers and the Reality Check. It's wonderful to get an opinion that's not wrapped around my, you know, insecurities.
posted by alex_skazat at 4:37 PM on August 9, 2013
Meaning, I can sling coffee in France, at a resort if I needed to. Knowing French and English could certainly help.
It seems like social skills might not be your strength, which will not help you in a barista position.
I'm a dyed-in-wool introvert, but upon meeting me, you'd probably wonder where the hell I get all this self-confidence from. Perhaps like many introverts I've learned to put on a "Now I'm going to act social" mask. It drains my pyschic-battery quicker than acting distant and awkward, but it seems to get me through those occasions.
Being thrust in the spotlight: having feature articles written about me (and getting the cover), being a speaker, sharing my life, etc is natural: 3 weeks ago, I performed, along with my band to 4500 people, as a surprise guest on a stop of a huge music tour, for an act that you've heard of (and I want to keep mum, as is band rules - but: Rock and Roll Hall of Famer). Couldn't have been any less nervous about it.
Attending to the wants/needs/desires of a line of costumers for a luxury product wouldn't phase me one bit.
...and now I'm threadsitting. So I'll hold off replying every 15 minutes. I appreciate all your (continued!) answers and the Reality Check. It's wonderful to get an opinion that's not wrapped around my, you know, insecurities.
posted by alex_skazat at 4:37 PM on August 9, 2013
You're over thinking this. Talk to the owners and ask them for a job. That's how people get jobs. I regularly ask all of my friends about job availability where they work, even through I won't be in the job market for another six months.
And by the way, your on-stage success is irrelevant - the owners want a responsible guy who will show up on time, won't steal, won't use the place a meth lab and if possible make decent coffee. If they know you and think you're reliable, your chances of getting this job are pretty good.
posted by sockpuppetdirect at 4:56 PM on August 9, 2013
And by the way, your on-stage success is irrelevant - the owners want a responsible guy who will show up on time, won't steal, won't use the place a meth lab and if possible make decent coffee. If they know you and think you're reliable, your chances of getting this job are pretty good.
posted by sockpuppetdirect at 4:56 PM on August 9, 2013
FYI, irrelevant bragging isn't a good way to demonstrate social skills.
posted by bleep at 4:58 PM on August 9, 2013 [25 favorites]
posted by bleep at 4:58 PM on August 9, 2013 [25 favorites]
The question boils down to do you want this job or not? If your answer is yes the most effective way to get the job it to talk to the owner. If you don't do that then you don't really want the job.
posted by plastic_animals at 5:18 PM on August 9, 2013
posted by plastic_animals at 5:18 PM on August 9, 2013
It's embarrassing to me to have to ask for a job.
I find people that go hard on the networking angle when out almost conniving, or at the very least dishonest. These types of people, who I do help, seem to me, just to be using me.
Perhaps you don't mean it this way, but this is a big, fat "fuck you" to the 99% of the human race that DOES rely on other people to help them out. Because that's how human society functions. We live in a society, we make friends, we help each other out. In what way, exactly, is this supposed to be humiliating?
I have never gotten a single solitary job without "asking for it," and I'm not embarrassed about it, and you shouldn't be either.
posted by showbiz_liz at 5:27 PM on August 9, 2013 [1 favorite]
I find people that go hard on the networking angle when out almost conniving, or at the very least dishonest. These types of people, who I do help, seem to me, just to be using me.
Perhaps you don't mean it this way, but this is a big, fat "fuck you" to the 99% of the human race that DOES rely on other people to help them out. Because that's how human society functions. We live in a society, we make friends, we help each other out. In what way, exactly, is this supposed to be humiliating?
I have never gotten a single solitary job without "asking for it," and I'm not embarrassed about it, and you shouldn't be either.
posted by showbiz_liz at 5:27 PM on August 9, 2013 [1 favorite]
Jesus, please do not list your "life experiences" and high school positions. You will come off as an idiot and a blowhard. You don't say "All my clients love me, check out my awesomeness, blah blah blah", you say "Through my position doing X I have developed a keen interest in the niceties of applying my skills to fill client needs". Or something more specific. You seem to be under the impression that your bosses give a shit about your awesome life and how the job will be making it more awesome. They do not. They care about whether you will do exactly as told, and do it happily and with a smile.
By the way--if you want to be successful in the service industry you'll have to get over yourself. The first time you get a cranky customer because they think you didn't give enough foam on their cappuccino you'll find out whether you have the ability to smile and swallow your retorts.
Oh, and also, what showbiz_liz says. You've been living in a box when it comes to your understanding of the working world. Human beings form relationships. That's networking. The service industry is all about relationships. You forming a five-second relationship with the customer where the base of the relationship is making them happy.
posted by Anonymous at 5:28 PM on August 9, 2013
By the way--if you want to be successful in the service industry you'll have to get over yourself. The first time you get a cranky customer because they think you didn't give enough foam on their cappuccino you'll find out whether you have the ability to smile and swallow your retorts.
Oh, and also, what showbiz_liz says. You've been living in a box when it comes to your understanding of the working world. Human beings form relationships. That's networking. The service industry is all about relationships. You forming a five-second relationship with the customer where the base of the relationship is making them happy.
posted by Anonymous at 5:28 PM on August 9, 2013
Mod note: OP, you do not need to reply to every comment, nor should you make this a general discussion. You can post specific updates and clarifications (which you have) but beyond that, please step back.
posted by restless_nomad (staff) at 6:40 PM on August 9, 2013
posted by restless_nomad (staff) at 6:40 PM on August 9, 2013
I don't want my self-created job anymore, but I need some sort of cash flow...I made up a job that works by mostly selling software (passive income)
If you have passive income, just let the passive income continue to come in while you do your other stuff!
I know I've got a extra-large amount of pride and stubbornness... became an orphan early in my life
Look, there's an orphan I know very very well who managed to do very well with getting jobs and doesn't have the sort of pride where they feel the need to brag about their band and travel experiences when asking how to get a barista job. Quit telling yourself there's some unchangeable story behind why you can't change or control your pride and stubbornness, if you want to change yourself you can.
You'll probably have a difficult time persuading These Birds of a Feather to follow you around, and even if you did, no one can change you but YOU.
sort of a hit to the ol' ego to go from, "Self-Employeed, "business owner", to coffee slinger, but swallowing that, I need to make some money
If all you've got is yourself, do what needs to be done here. Let go of the labels, let go of the pride, let go of your feelings around others finding it easy to apply for jobs. Surely as a business owner you've had to wear a number of hats, some of which weren't very fun, and some of which might have resulted in blows to your ego. You know you've got to go ahead and apply for jobs, so go do it.
Yeah, you might not get this one. If you're self-employed, you should already know that sort of thing is just business. Want to know why it seems mundane to others to apply for jobs? It's because one often has to apply to a lot of them.
posted by yohko at 8:11 PM on August 9, 2013 [1 favorite]
If you have passive income, just let the passive income continue to come in while you do your other stuff!
I know I've got a extra-large amount of pride and stubbornness... became an orphan early in my life
Look, there's an orphan I know very very well who managed to do very well with getting jobs and doesn't have the sort of pride where they feel the need to brag about their band and travel experiences when asking how to get a barista job. Quit telling yourself there's some unchangeable story behind why you can't change or control your pride and stubbornness, if you want to change yourself you can.
You'll probably have a difficult time persuading These Birds of a Feather to follow you around, and even if you did, no one can change you but YOU.
sort of a hit to the ol' ego to go from, "Self-Employeed, "business owner", to coffee slinger, but swallowing that, I need to make some money
If all you've got is yourself, do what needs to be done here. Let go of the labels, let go of the pride, let go of your feelings around others finding it easy to apply for jobs. Surely as a business owner you've had to wear a number of hats, some of which weren't very fun, and some of which might have resulted in blows to your ego. You know you've got to go ahead and apply for jobs, so go do it.
Yeah, you might not get this one. If you're self-employed, you should already know that sort of thing is just business. Want to know why it seems mundane to others to apply for jobs? It's because one often has to apply to a lot of them.
posted by yohko at 8:11 PM on August 9, 2013 [1 favorite]
Your only prayer is to ask the owners personally. Seriously, you are not qualified.
Alternately, you could go here or here and get some relevant experience.
Before doing any of those things, I would recommend seriously cultivating some respect and compassion for the people who would be your coworkers.
Try printing just the question portion of this, and showing it to a person who currently works as a barista. Don't tell them it's you, just absorb the feedback.
If, by some miracle or nepotism, you end up getting an interview with a manager at this location, just don't say this:
I have also lived a very eclectic life of traveling and adventure, doing things that put me on covers (plural) of local magazines as somewhat of a Pretty Interesting Man of the World.
or this:
I'm not worried at all about making coffee drinks, or dealing with customers, or handling stress. I'm a huge flirt - more so than most baristas (my "Type" used to BE baristas, which makes me feel I outflirt even them!).
posted by current occupation: at 9:21 PM on August 9, 2013 [1 favorite]
Alternately, you could go here or here and get some relevant experience.
Before doing any of those things, I would recommend seriously cultivating some respect and compassion for the people who would be your coworkers.
Try printing just the question portion of this, and showing it to a person who currently works as a barista. Don't tell them it's you, just absorb the feedback.
If, by some miracle or nepotism, you end up getting an interview with a manager at this location, just don't say this:
I have also lived a very eclectic life of traveling and adventure, doing things that put me on covers (plural) of local magazines as somewhat of a Pretty Interesting Man of the World.
or this:
I'm not worried at all about making coffee drinks, or dealing with customers, or handling stress. I'm a huge flirt - more so than most baristas (my "Type" used to BE baristas, which makes me feel I outflirt even them!).
posted by current occupation: at 9:21 PM on August 9, 2013 [1 favorite]
"My turn to speak, and they screw up my slides: all out of order. They refuse to fix it, and I have to ad-lib this mess of a deck on the spot, in front of hundreds of people, while the timer is going. This is when (do they still do this?) they had basically a live group tweet feed ragging on me, the entire time in back of me, projected right up against my own slides."
I offer this insight as a helpful tip for life, the universe and everything:
the problem here is not that the slides got screwed up. It's that 1. you weren't prepared to be flexible and adapt to unforeseen circumstances while on the spot 2. the lesson you learned from this event was not that you should work on that, but that other people are out to get you.
Control does not equal goodness. One can be disciplined, talented, and conscientious and still not be 100% in control; one can, however, develop good and bad habits for responding to life's chaos. It sounds like you have had your share of chaos without really learning to cope with it. If you get this barista gig, it could be a good education for you; keep your self-respect and integrity, but don't confuse them with always being right or always having the upper hand. Let the customer be the winner, let your boss be the director, let yourself enjoy not being "on."
posted by Schielisque at 12:35 PM on August 10, 2013 [5 favorites]
I offer this insight as a helpful tip for life, the universe and everything:
the problem here is not that the slides got screwed up. It's that 1. you weren't prepared to be flexible and adapt to unforeseen circumstances while on the spot 2. the lesson you learned from this event was not that you should work on that, but that other people are out to get you.
Control does not equal goodness. One can be disciplined, talented, and conscientious and still not be 100% in control; one can, however, develop good and bad habits for responding to life's chaos. It sounds like you have had your share of chaos without really learning to cope with it. If you get this barista gig, it could be a good education for you; keep your self-respect and integrity, but don't confuse them with always being right or always having the upper hand. Let the customer be the winner, let your boss be the director, let yourself enjoy not being "on."
posted by Schielisque at 12:35 PM on August 10, 2013 [5 favorites]
Response by poster: Thanks for everyone's comments and replies.
I'm really sorry that I didn't seem to give you the best insight on myself, or my life. I'm not one to brag - far from it, I'm just trying to stoke myself to take on this new challenge. I love to do unique things, and I write about it - an sometimes others take note of that - that's all.
Maybe applying for a job as a barista seems way easy for some, but for me, it's a lot harder than many of the other things I've done in my life - things others wouldn't dream of even attempting. I just don't know where to start. "you can't do that (you're not qualified)" hasn't ever stopped me from stopping, before.
Messaged my friend. Thanks!
posted by alex_skazat at 10:26 PM on August 12, 2013
I'm really sorry that I didn't seem to give you the best insight on myself, or my life. I'm not one to brag - far from it, I'm just trying to stoke myself to take on this new challenge. I love to do unique things, and I write about it - an sometimes others take note of that - that's all.
Maybe applying for a job as a barista seems way easy for some, but for me, it's a lot harder than many of the other things I've done in my life - things others wouldn't dream of even attempting. I just don't know where to start. "you can't do that (you're not qualified)" hasn't ever stopped me from stopping, before.
Messaged my friend. Thanks!
posted by alex_skazat at 10:26 PM on August 12, 2013
People love to pile on here, so don't feel too bad about the scolding tone of the comments. You really didn't come across as some kind of irredeemable asshole--just like you hadn't quite fully thought through how to frame this next step in the most clear-sighted or useful way. I hope you get the job and that being a barista opens all kinds of fun doors for you.
posted by yoink at 7:29 AM on August 13, 2013
posted by yoink at 7:29 AM on August 13, 2013
This thread is closed to new comments.
posted by foodgeek at 2:16 PM on August 9, 2013 [17 favorites]