Weird grinding from steering column
April 9, 2013 5:20 PM Subscribe
I have a 2005 Mazda 6 with about 170,000 miles. Over the past few days it first developed a weird, low-toned clicking sound whenever I made a turn (left or right), which seemed to come from the steering column area... maybe around my feet under the car. I drove it yesterday and today, and that sound has seemed to turn in to a grinding. It's also making a similar sound whenever I press the brakes. From what I could see the power steering fluid is above-level, but the reservoir is also really dirty which makes it hard to check accurately. To complicate matters, I was at a tire shop over the weekend (thought it had a leak - someone had just let the air out) and they had taken the tire off and put it back on - not sure if they're at all related.
To make matters worse, I definitely can't get to an auto-body shop until Thursday, and I'm pretty sure I can't afford anything beyond (maybe) 400 dollars or so. Is it unsafe to drive this? I have some incredibly important stuff to do tomorrow that I basically can't skip, and need to drive about ~60 miles there and back.
To make matters worse, I definitely can't get to an auto-body shop until Thursday, and I'm pretty sure I can't afford anything beyond (maybe) 400 dollars or so. Is it unsafe to drive this? I have some incredibly important stuff to do tomorrow that I basically can't skip, and need to drive about ~60 miles there and back.
Your brakes may be wearing out, which would explain the grinding. The clicking could be coming from a dust shield that was accidentally bent by a tech when removing/replacing a tire. They're pretty thin metal and bend easily.
posted by InsanePenguin at 5:40 PM on April 9, 2013 [1 favorite]
posted by InsanePenguin at 5:40 PM on April 9, 2013 [1 favorite]
Response by poster: Just to be clear, the grinding is also there when I turn, not just when I'm braking.
posted by codacorolla at 5:45 PM on April 9, 2013
posted by codacorolla at 5:45 PM on April 9, 2013
I think you may have a either a bad rack and pinion or inner/outer tie rod (or both). It is impossible to say since their is so much going on around there. If you notice any notchiness when you turn the wheel (meaning you will feel (not hear) some clicks as you turn the wheel) you definitely have a bad rack and pinion and that is a really dangerous situation. The rack and pinion are what mechanically changes the steering wheel movement to the tires turning so you can see what a failure in that could do...
However it could just be a bent dust shield on the back of your brakes or loose lug nuts. Things I would do immediately: check to make sure your lug nuts are tightened adequately (take out the tool the car came with for changing a tire and tighten the lug nuts as tight as you can with that tool-you really can't over tighten them by hand with that tool). It could be as simple as that.
A bent dust shield is pretty easy to fix also. That link is for a honda civic but basically all cars have a very similair front brake setup these days. To fix a bent shield you don't have to take apart the brakes you just need to check that the dust shield part isn't rubbing on anything-just bend the shield away from the disc anywhere where it is rubbing.
That may be more than you are willing to take on, I don't know how comfortable you are in DIY car stuff.
Your brake pads may need changing, but that is usually a high pitched squeel that goes away when you press the brakes so that doesn't sound likely from your description.
Something else that can help is to thoroughly wash out the wheels (the area inside the rim around the brakes) and the wheel wells and around the suspension parts. Go to a DIY car wash place and use one of the wands to get in there and rinse the area out really, really good (till the water runs clear). Sometimes a bit of crud gets caught in the bits and makes some horrendous noise.
As to safe to drive? no idea, it will take a more careful inspection from an experienced eye if it isn't just loose lug nuts.
posted by bartonlong at 5:57 PM on April 9, 2013 [1 favorite]
However it could just be a bent dust shield on the back of your brakes or loose lug nuts. Things I would do immediately: check to make sure your lug nuts are tightened adequately (take out the tool the car came with for changing a tire and tighten the lug nuts as tight as you can with that tool-you really can't over tighten them by hand with that tool). It could be as simple as that.
A bent dust shield is pretty easy to fix also. That link is for a honda civic but basically all cars have a very similair front brake setup these days. To fix a bent shield you don't have to take apart the brakes you just need to check that the dust shield part isn't rubbing on anything-just bend the shield away from the disc anywhere where it is rubbing.
That may be more than you are willing to take on, I don't know how comfortable you are in DIY car stuff.
Your brake pads may need changing, but that is usually a high pitched squeel that goes away when you press the brakes so that doesn't sound likely from your description.
Something else that can help is to thoroughly wash out the wheels (the area inside the rim around the brakes) and the wheel wells and around the suspension parts. Go to a DIY car wash place and use one of the wands to get in there and rinse the area out really, really good (till the water runs clear). Sometimes a bit of crud gets caught in the bits and makes some horrendous noise.
As to safe to drive? no idea, it will take a more careful inspection from an experienced eye if it isn't just loose lug nuts.
posted by bartonlong at 5:57 PM on April 9, 2013 [1 favorite]
Response by poster: I just checked the lugnuts, and they're all tight. Unfortunately I just realized that the tire shop didn't give me back the wheel lock key. I can probably get it back from them, but it's far away and there's no way I'd be able to get it any time soon. That's pretty bad if I have to get it looked at, isn't it?
posted by codacorolla at 6:44 PM on April 9, 2013
posted by codacorolla at 6:44 PM on April 9, 2013
Unless you take it to a dealer where potentially they might have a similar wheel lock/key, that's sort of a deal breaker for having anyone do anything significant to the car. Any work or really even a decent inspection of the brakes is going to involve removing the wheels.
It's not hard to check the brake pads if you can get the wheels off ... you need a lug nut wrench, jack, and either blocks or jackstands (preferably the latter) to put under the frame. If you have an automotively-inclined friend it's the sort of thing that could be done in your driveway. But you can't really get started without the wheel lock.
I'd start asking around in the meantime if there's anyone who's good with cars who'd be willing to at least rule out simple stuff in exchange for a six-pack of beer or something. If they can't immediately put their finger on the problem after dropping the wheels you'll need to take it into a shop (steering or brake issues are no joke), but you might as well look for low-hanging fruit.
That would be my strategy anyway.
posted by Kadin2048 at 6:56 PM on April 9, 2013
It's not hard to check the brake pads if you can get the wheels off ... you need a lug nut wrench, jack, and either blocks or jackstands (preferably the latter) to put under the frame. If you have an automotively-inclined friend it's the sort of thing that could be done in your driveway. But you can't really get started without the wheel lock.
I'd start asking around in the meantime if there's anyone who's good with cars who'd be willing to at least rule out simple stuff in exchange for a six-pack of beer or something. If they can't immediately put their finger on the problem after dropping the wheels you'll need to take it into a shop (steering or brake issues are no joke), but you might as well look for low-hanging fruit.
That would be my strategy anyway.
posted by Kadin2048 at 6:56 PM on April 9, 2013
Noise while turning is almost always the constant velocity joint. Pretty common at that mileage.
posted by hwyengr at 7:02 PM on April 9, 2013 [2 favorites]
posted by hwyengr at 7:02 PM on April 9, 2013 [2 favorites]
A lost wheel lock key is no biggie. You can buy a universal wheel lock remover at just about any auto parts store. It's sort of a grippy socket that slides over the wheel lock and grips around it. You can accomplish the same by using a 12-point socket that is juuuust too small to slip over the wheel lock, hammer it on, and then use a breaker bar followed by a ratchet to remove the lock. (Bonus, use a Craftsman socket--lifetime warranty!) It's a little shocking how simple it is to remove wheel locks without the key.
"Clicking" (or popping) makes me think CV joints. If the clicking is only when making a fairly sharp turn, even more so. If you can peek under the car, the half-shafts (one on each side) run from the transaxle to each front wheel. There will be a rubber boot that looks like an accordion at each end of each half-shaft. If you can, inspect these boots (aka "CV boots"). If they are torn or cracked, it's almost certainly that. This is something you'll want to get fixed ASAP, as once they're clicking, you're about to start losing bearings out of it. Not a good thing. You're looking at about $120 or so a pop for the shafts, and 2 or 3 hours labor for the pair of them. If you're comfortable doing your own brakes, you can do your own half-shafts. Otherwise, take it to your trusted mechanic.
If it's more of a grinding than a clicking/popping noise, I'd be thinking either brake drag, or a bad wheel bearing.
posted by xedrik at 8:12 PM on April 9, 2013
"Clicking" (or popping) makes me think CV joints. If the clicking is only when making a fairly sharp turn, even more so. If you can peek under the car, the half-shafts (one on each side) run from the transaxle to each front wheel. There will be a rubber boot that looks like an accordion at each end of each half-shaft. If you can, inspect these boots (aka "CV boots"). If they are torn or cracked, it's almost certainly that. This is something you'll want to get fixed ASAP, as once they're clicking, you're about to start losing bearings out of it. Not a good thing. You're looking at about $120 or so a pop for the shafts, and 2 or 3 hours labor for the pair of them. If you're comfortable doing your own brakes, you can do your own half-shafts. Otherwise, take it to your trusted mechanic.
If it's more of a grinding than a clicking/popping noise, I'd be thinking either brake drag, or a bad wheel bearing.
posted by xedrik at 8:12 PM on April 9, 2013
Fourthing CV joint(s). I have a 1994 Mazda Protege that needs new transaxles every five years or so because an accident bent the frame in front just enough to stress the CV joints. I know the clicking that turns to grinding on turns very well. The rubber boots around the joints may not show any cracks or anything wrong, the noise is a better diagnostic and a good mechanic will know that sound. Go to a mechanic, not a body shop.
Drive as little as possible until you can get it checked. Do get that checked out very soon. A bad CV joint can break at any time. A friend had one break at freeway speed and says that it was the scariest experience she's ever had. Wheel comes off, car out of control, lucky it was on a deserted highway at night. So very serious, indeed.
posted by monopas at 9:19 PM on April 9, 2013
Drive as little as possible until you can get it checked. Do get that checked out very soon. A bad CV joint can break at any time. A friend had one break at freeway speed and says that it was the scariest experience she's ever had. Wheel comes off, car out of control, lucky it was on a deserted highway at night. So very serious, indeed.
posted by monopas at 9:19 PM on April 9, 2013
CV axles vote
I just changed mine on a 1999 Volvo with 116K miles. The price I was quoted from the garage was pretty high. Believe it or not, I read some forums for my model car and found a video on Youtube for my exact car! I changed out both front axles myself. I have very little car repair experience, but didn't have the $600 extra for labor.
posted by JujuB at 10:53 PM on April 9, 2013
I just changed mine on a 1999 Volvo with 116K miles. The price I was quoted from the garage was pretty high. Believe it or not, I read some forums for my model car and found a video on Youtube for my exact car! I changed out both front axles myself. I have very little car repair experience, but didn't have the $600 extra for labor.
posted by JujuB at 10:53 PM on April 9, 2013
Another strong vote for CV joints. And if these noises have come on as suddenly as you say, accompanied by grinding, there may well be something catastrophic going on down there. I would not drive it more than a few blocks, at slow speed, to a competent shop.
Case in point: I had a VW Rabbit years ago, noticed a bit of clunking on a trip. Just a little, turning a corner. After I'd parked for about an hour, I got in the car and backed out of a parking place. Noticed a very slight jerking on the steering wheel, accompanied by some clicking. Headed to another town, 40 miles away, over the mountains. Coming in to that town, all of a sudden the steering wheel jerked out of my hands, the car headed for a (whooie!) fortunately-placed parking lot on the right side of the road, and the right front wheel AND AXLE came off!
If that had happened only five miles earlier, I might not be typing this.
Rent a car for your trip tomorrow, or borrow one if you can. Be safe.
posted by drhydro at 11:09 PM on April 9, 2013
Case in point: I had a VW Rabbit years ago, noticed a bit of clunking on a trip. Just a little, turning a corner. After I'd parked for about an hour, I got in the car and backed out of a parking place. Noticed a very slight jerking on the steering wheel, accompanied by some clicking. Headed to another town, 40 miles away, over the mountains. Coming in to that town, all of a sudden the steering wheel jerked out of my hands, the car headed for a (whooie!) fortunately-placed parking lot on the right side of the road, and the right front wheel AND AXLE came off!
If that had happened only five miles earlier, I might not be typing this.
Rent a car for your trip tomorrow, or borrow one if you can. Be safe.
posted by drhydro at 11:09 PM on April 9, 2013
CV joints are easy to sniff out if they're still in the clicking stage, because if you go around in constant circles (the steering wheel held in one position) in a parking lot the clicking will be proportional to speed. If it's something like a tie rod, etc., you'll get noise when you move the steering wheel or hit bumps. The fact that it makes a (constant) grinding noise when you apply the breaks (presumably in a straight line) strongly implies it's something with the brakes / suspension / wheels. It could be something hazardous like a pad disintegrating and you're braking on the pad back, etc., so probably not a great idea to go driving until someone checks out the vitals. That won't involve more than pulling the front wheels, though, so will be a cheap check.
posted by introp at 11:10 PM on April 9, 2013
posted by introp at 11:10 PM on April 9, 2013
Just to be clear, the grinding is also there when I turn, not just when I'm braking.
I have seen cars where the brakes wear out in a specific way that causes this symptom. It doesn't seem logical, but it happens. What is probably going on is that one of the bearings has a little slack in it and when you turn, this allows the worn brakes to make contact even though you aren't touching the brake pedal.
My experience with CV joints is that you'll get different behavior depending on whether you are in neutral or drive, and accelerating or decelerating. Especially when you do things like slow down and turn into a driveway.
Grinding is not a good noise for a car. This means something is making contact that shouldn't, and is wearing down pretty quickly. I wouldn't trust it for more than local trips to repair shops, personally.
Worn tie rods will clunk when you turn the wheel, hit bumps or accelerate. You'd probably also notice torque steer or pulling when braking. I've had it where it pulls to the left when accellerating, to the right when braking, and rides mostly smooth when going steady, but also with a bit of wander. But you probably won't get a rhythmic clicking while in a static turn unless your tires are particularly lumpy.
posted by gjc at 3:05 AM on April 10, 2013
I have seen cars where the brakes wear out in a specific way that causes this symptom. It doesn't seem logical, but it happens. What is probably going on is that one of the bearings has a little slack in it and when you turn, this allows the worn brakes to make contact even though you aren't touching the brake pedal.
My experience with CV joints is that you'll get different behavior depending on whether you are in neutral or drive, and accelerating or decelerating. Especially when you do things like slow down and turn into a driveway.
Grinding is not a good noise for a car. This means something is making contact that shouldn't, and is wearing down pretty quickly. I wouldn't trust it for more than local trips to repair shops, personally.
Worn tie rods will clunk when you turn the wheel, hit bumps or accelerate. You'd probably also notice torque steer or pulling when braking. I've had it where it pulls to the left when accellerating, to the right when braking, and rides mostly smooth when going steady, but also with a bit of wander. But you probably won't get a rhythmic clicking while in a static turn unless your tires are particularly lumpy.
posted by gjc at 3:05 AM on April 10, 2013
Over the past few days it first developed a weird, low-toned clicking sound whenever I made a turn (left or right),
Do you mean it clicks once as you turn the wheel? In which case it is steering related (Tie rod, rack or wheel bearing).
The grinding sounds like it is an end result rather than a symptom - something is getting rubbed because something else is touching where it shouldn't.
If you mean it clicks in a rhythmically when the wheel is turned away from straight ahead, then it is most likely the CV joints (axle).
Either way, if the symptoms have arrived and worsened in just a few days, you need to treat it as very serious and get it seen to as a priority - no big trips, no trips at all further than your local shop. They will be able to diagnose steering play and axle issues without even taking the wheel off. At the very least they will be able to tell you if it is safe to drive for your trip. Explain the situation clearly and fully and ask them if they can tell you one way or another.
Be prepared that the result of their inspection (without the wheel nut key) may well be one of the three:
1: It's safe to drive until you get the key
2: It's not safe to drive
3: We can't tell definitely without taking the wheel off.
2 or 3 means don't drive it. 1 means drive it to the shop with the key. A relatively sudden fault symptom that also changes quickly is a big red flag for me. Take it to your nearest shop. It may be something minor like a brake pad shim, but it could also be something very serious and so being as we are unable to tell over the internet, assume the worst. It's cheaper and safer in the long run.
posted by Brockles at 5:57 AM on April 11, 2013
Do you mean it clicks once as you turn the wheel? In which case it is steering related (Tie rod, rack or wheel bearing).
The grinding sounds like it is an end result rather than a symptom - something is getting rubbed because something else is touching where it shouldn't.
If you mean it clicks in a rhythmically when the wheel is turned away from straight ahead, then it is most likely the CV joints (axle).
Either way, if the symptoms have arrived and worsened in just a few days, you need to treat it as very serious and get it seen to as a priority - no big trips, no trips at all further than your local shop. They will be able to diagnose steering play and axle issues without even taking the wheel off. At the very least they will be able to tell you if it is safe to drive for your trip. Explain the situation clearly and fully and ask them if they can tell you one way or another.
Be prepared that the result of their inspection (without the wheel nut key) may well be one of the three:
1: It's safe to drive until you get the key
2: It's not safe to drive
3: We can't tell definitely without taking the wheel off.
2 or 3 means don't drive it. 1 means drive it to the shop with the key. A relatively sudden fault symptom that also changes quickly is a big red flag for me. Take it to your nearest shop. It may be something minor like a brake pad shim, but it could also be something very serious and so being as we are unable to tell over the internet, assume the worst. It's cheaper and safer in the long run.
posted by Brockles at 5:57 AM on April 11, 2013
To make matters worse, I definitely can't get to an auto-body shop until Thursday, and I'm pretty sure I can't afford anything beyond (maybe) 400 dollars or so. Is it unsafe to drive this? I have some incredibly important stuff to do tomorrow that I basically can't skip, and need to drive about ~60 miles there and back.
There comes a point when this kind of commitment is irrelevant. It's not worth the risk to you and your car - take it to any reputable auto shop. It is worth a $50 inspection right now if it means you can ignore it for a week or so if it turns out to be minor, right? If it isn't minor that's $50 well spent.
posted by Brockles at 6:00 AM on April 11, 2013
There comes a point when this kind of commitment is irrelevant. It's not worth the risk to you and your car - take it to any reputable auto shop. It is worth a $50 inspection right now if it means you can ignore it for a week or so if it turns out to be minor, right? If it isn't minor that's $50 well spent.
posted by Brockles at 6:00 AM on April 11, 2013
Response by poster: I took it to a trusted garage near my parents' house, and it was still doing the grindy thing on the way there. I dropped it off and borrowed my dad's car for the week, and he took it for a number of test drives (also: the Mazda dealer near his house removed the wheel locks for free, as an FYI for anyone who runs in to the same problem). Both he and the mechanic couldn't get the problem to replicate. My dad took off the tires and looked, and bent one dust shield back a little bit, but otherwise no repairs were made. I drove it enough so that it normally would've been making the noise, and no grinding either.
Is it possible a rock or something got kicked somewhere it shouldn't have? It seems that the problem is gone without any repair work being done.
posted by codacorolla at 12:16 PM on April 21, 2013
Is it possible a rock or something got kicked somewhere it shouldn't have? It seems that the problem is gone without any repair work being done.
posted by codacorolla at 12:16 PM on April 21, 2013
It is possible a rock got stuck in the caliper or something. If there' no witness marks then it'd be really hard to tell. You may have dodged a problem with a weird stuck rock noise. Hope so.
posted by Brockles at 3:50 PM on April 21, 2013
posted by Brockles at 3:50 PM on April 21, 2013
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posted by coldhotel at 5:29 PM on April 9, 2013 [1 favorite]