Help us gauge the importance of school district in housing choice
May 29, 2012 7:35 AM Subscribe
The McTootsalot family has outgrown our home, and we’re looking to move this summer. We love our area (Durham, NC) so if we could we’d love to just move into a larger house down the street that could accommodate our growing clan. However, there is a caveat: schools. How much importance we should place on schools?
We’d love to stay in Durham, but the school system here is lacking. There is apparently a good magnet system and lottery, but with a lottery, nothing is guaranteed. The elementary school for our neighborhood (Duke Park) is the lowest performing school in the entire county and some families in our neighborhood have had to make abrupt moves to better school districts when they didn’t win a single lottery slot.
We are considering moving to Chapel Hill, which has (arguably) the best school system in the state and one of the best in the country. It also has the high property taxes and housing prices to go with it. We could afford a decent house in a decent neighborhood there, but for the same amount of money, we could position ourselves in Durham in a great house, going to the very best schools available here (which still won’t be as good as Chapel Hill). We're not really interested in moving to Raleigh or Cary, fwiw, we'd like to stay west of RTP.
One complicating matter is that the biggest reason Durham schools are lacking on many measures is that they contain a diverse mix of socioeconomic levels. Much more than the rest of the Triangle area. So the schools themselves aren't necessarily bad, but that the test scores reflect a greater percentage of historically under-performing students. It also means that their resources may be allocated differently than higher performing schools (more emphasis on at-risk students or crime prevention), and may have more problems with retaining excellent teachers.
Most of our uncertainty surrounding this question boils down to this: How important is school choice? Will young Master McTootsalot be permanently at a loss because he went to a decent school in Durham (Riverside or Jordan High) versus an excellent school in Chapel Hill (East Chapel Hill High)? Is there a price tag for this? And does this price tag match the price difference between Durham and Chapel Hill housing costs?
Advice of all kinds is welcome, from people who have wrestled with this question for their own families, to people who are familiar with this specific area of the country, to links to academic articles on the subject.
We’d love to stay in Durham, but the school system here is lacking. There is apparently a good magnet system and lottery, but with a lottery, nothing is guaranteed. The elementary school for our neighborhood (Duke Park) is the lowest performing school in the entire county and some families in our neighborhood have had to make abrupt moves to better school districts when they didn’t win a single lottery slot.
We are considering moving to Chapel Hill, which has (arguably) the best school system in the state and one of the best in the country. It also has the high property taxes and housing prices to go with it. We could afford a decent house in a decent neighborhood there, but for the same amount of money, we could position ourselves in Durham in a great house, going to the very best schools available here (which still won’t be as good as Chapel Hill). We're not really interested in moving to Raleigh or Cary, fwiw, we'd like to stay west of RTP.
One complicating matter is that the biggest reason Durham schools are lacking on many measures is that they contain a diverse mix of socioeconomic levels. Much more than the rest of the Triangle area. So the schools themselves aren't necessarily bad, but that the test scores reflect a greater percentage of historically under-performing students. It also means that their resources may be allocated differently than higher performing schools (more emphasis on at-risk students or crime prevention), and may have more problems with retaining excellent teachers.
Most of our uncertainty surrounding this question boils down to this: How important is school choice? Will young Master McTootsalot be permanently at a loss because he went to a decent school in Durham (Riverside or Jordan High) versus an excellent school in Chapel Hill (East Chapel Hill High)? Is there a price tag for this? And does this price tag match the price difference between Durham and Chapel Hill housing costs?
Advice of all kinds is welcome, from people who have wrestled with this question for their own families, to people who are familiar with this specific area of the country, to links to academic articles on the subject.
Best answer: When our family was young and growing, we moved from our vibrant, diverse city neighborhood to a bland suburb that had great schools. Our thinking at the time was that good schools were necessary, and we would be better off financially in the long run if we put our money into a higher house note in an area with good schools than if we paid for private schooling for the kiddos. After twenty years of suburban living, the move paid off financially as our house increased tremendously in value and we were able to use that equity to start our business. The house itself was one of the main factors in our financial stability today.
However. We are not suburban type folks and we really never fit in. One of our kids HATED living there, the other did fine and flourished. That lifestyle revolves around kids, church, and family, which is great for some but not quite enough for us. We moved back to a city neighborhood about five minutes after the youngest graduated high school, and have never regretted it. Sometimes we talk about how our lives would have been different if we had stayed in the city and raised our kids here. There are LOTS of families with small children here, and they seem to be doing just fine. Although I would imagine that the kids can't ride their bikes to the library alone at the age of ten, like our kids did.
I would say that you need to find the place that fits your family the best. Give some thought to how you see your family fitting in to your community, and pick the type of neighborhood that you can commit your resources to.
posted by raisingsand at 8:08 AM on May 29, 2012
However. We are not suburban type folks and we really never fit in. One of our kids HATED living there, the other did fine and flourished. That lifestyle revolves around kids, church, and family, which is great for some but not quite enough for us. We moved back to a city neighborhood about five minutes after the youngest graduated high school, and have never regretted it. Sometimes we talk about how our lives would have been different if we had stayed in the city and raised our kids here. There are LOTS of families with small children here, and they seem to be doing just fine. Although I would imagine that the kids can't ride their bikes to the library alone at the age of ten, like our kids did.
I would say that you need to find the place that fits your family the best. Give some thought to how you see your family fitting in to your community, and pick the type of neighborhood that you can commit your resources to.
posted by raisingsand at 8:08 AM on May 29, 2012
Best answer: I guess one of my questions would be how willing you are (and how willing is Young Master) to do some extracurricular enrichment on your own. Things like youth music organizations, Kumon or similar math tutoring, etc. can bolster skills to make up a perceived gap. However, that also takes more time and money.
Hell, having a diverse mix of people around you is a good start in some areas. In fourth grade, I went from a lily-white private school with a few upper-class black kids to a rather urban elementary school with kids at all points on the spectrum. I made a couple thoughtless comments to one of my old friends, and my mom called me out on it. Yeah, that was a learning experience.
Speaking as a former college admissions person, how someone performs at a specific high school is a big deal. I worked at both a small liberal arts college with a regional draw and one of the country's top public universities, and in both cases the admissions staffers were very clued into the challenges of one school vs. another. Someone from Decent High will probably have to work much harder than someone from High Achieving Prep With Involved Parents to get noticed by an admissions rep. Would Young Master even have access to the kinds of AP, IB, etc. classes that peers in Chapel Hill would have?
[Here is where I give my spiel that a school that requires A+ AP students is not for everyone, AND that transferring in during the sophomore or junior year, to any college, is one billion times easier than the terrible, awful freshman admissions grind.]
I don't know how old your kid is, but he may be giving you hints already. Does he get bored easily? Does he need to be challenged? Perhaps Chapel Hill would be a better fit. Is he kind with people who are not like him? (Does he recognize that people are not like him?) Is he able to make his own fun, to find something meaningful in any situation? Durham would probably be more than fine.
All of these things are very tough to suss out in your head while Young Master may not be giving you clues to what he might want or need down the road, or how he might be willing to participate in his own education. But I hope it helps a little.
posted by Madamina at 8:09 AM on May 29, 2012 [1 favorite]
Hell, having a diverse mix of people around you is a good start in some areas. In fourth grade, I went from a lily-white private school with a few upper-class black kids to a rather urban elementary school with kids at all points on the spectrum. I made a couple thoughtless comments to one of my old friends, and my mom called me out on it. Yeah, that was a learning experience.
Speaking as a former college admissions person, how someone performs at a specific high school is a big deal. I worked at both a small liberal arts college with a regional draw and one of the country's top public universities, and in both cases the admissions staffers were very clued into the challenges of one school vs. another. Someone from Decent High will probably have to work much harder than someone from High Achieving Prep With Involved Parents to get noticed by an admissions rep. Would Young Master even have access to the kinds of AP, IB, etc. classes that peers in Chapel Hill would have?
[Here is where I give my spiel that a school that requires A+ AP students is not for everyone, AND that transferring in during the sophomore or junior year, to any college, is one billion times easier than the terrible, awful freshman admissions grind.]
I don't know how old your kid is, but he may be giving you hints already. Does he get bored easily? Does he need to be challenged? Perhaps Chapel Hill would be a better fit. Is he kind with people who are not like him? (Does he recognize that people are not like him?) Is he able to make his own fun, to find something meaningful in any situation? Durham would probably be more than fine.
All of these things are very tough to suss out in your head while Young Master may not be giving you clues to what he might want or need down the road, or how he might be willing to participate in his own education. But I hope it helps a little.
posted by Madamina at 8:09 AM on May 29, 2012 [1 favorite]
Another thing to think about: we moved to a "best school district" kind of suburb 9 years ago. We don't love the schools here, though. The academic expectations, especially for kindergarten and early elementary, are simply ridiculous. The student population is overall very smart (the district identfies about a third of its students as "gifted and talented") and well-off, and kids who are not either of those things can feel tremendous pressure. Especially at the high-school level, I hear (second hand as we don't have a kid at that level) that the student culture can be extremely toxic.
It's a "best school district" in the sense of quality of resources and infrastructure (the elementary school my kids are assigned to is actually an architecturally beautiful building, with floor-to-ceiling windows lining the hallways and cathedral ceilings). And in the sense of having a high level of academic achievement and the vast majority of kids going on to college.
But: academic pressure, toxic student culture (haves v. have-nots), my Black daughter being the only person of color in her class, and so on. Since we live in what passes for a "poor" neighborhood in this suburb (when we bought our house, we paid $100,000 less than the median home price here), this could be an issue for our kids.
It's definitely a "best" in some ways, but not in others that also matter, and might matter to you more. My daughter is going to a young 5's program this fall instead of the academic kindergarten, and after that we may homeschool her (her older brothers both homeschool) or use schools of choice to put her into a "good enough" but more racially and economically diverse school in Local Urban Center.
There are trade-offs, and you have to consider how you want them to play out in your family.
posted by not that girl at 8:22 AM on May 29, 2012 [2 favorites]
It's a "best school district" in the sense of quality of resources and infrastructure (the elementary school my kids are assigned to is actually an architecturally beautiful building, with floor-to-ceiling windows lining the hallways and cathedral ceilings). And in the sense of having a high level of academic achievement and the vast majority of kids going on to college.
But: academic pressure, toxic student culture (haves v. have-nots), my Black daughter being the only person of color in her class, and so on. Since we live in what passes for a "poor" neighborhood in this suburb (when we bought our house, we paid $100,000 less than the median home price here), this could be an issue for our kids.
It's definitely a "best" in some ways, but not in others that also matter, and might matter to you more. My daughter is going to a young 5's program this fall instead of the academic kindergarten, and after that we may homeschool her (her older brothers both homeschool) or use schools of choice to put her into a "good enough" but more racially and economically diverse school in Local Urban Center.
There are trade-offs, and you have to consider how you want them to play out in your family.
posted by not that girl at 8:22 AM on May 29, 2012 [2 favorites]
Best answer: I agree that Eastway's numbers are a little scary. I know folks who have gotten into the magnets and charters from Duke Park. Depending on your exact address,you may have priority admission to Club Blvd or Watts for elementary school. And, if Eastway is ever going to get better, that will be because parents with the means to do so rallied together and changed it. My understanding is that is what happened with EK Powe. Maybe you and your neighbors can be those parents. I understand that kind of work is not for everybody, though.
Jordan and Riverside are great schools. A Jordan student won the Intel Talent Search a few years ago. What they don't have is the homogeneity of race and economic class found in "good" schools. To me, that's a good thing. Your kids will get an education about what the world is actually like and have friends from varied backgrounds.
My husband went to a fancy pants science magnet that consistently gets rated as one of the top high schools in the country. I went to a perfectly mediocre public school in Charlotte that is very comparable to Riverside (i.e., not as wealthy of an area as Jordan). Many of our friends went to fancy private schools. I'm the one with a PhD from Duke.
If you provide your kids with the stable home environment and enrichment activities that their classmates lack, your kids will thrive. And they will perhaps grow up to be more socially conscious and compassionate than folks who went to "better" schools.
posted by hydropsyche at 8:26 AM on May 29, 2012 [2 favorites]
Jordan and Riverside are great schools. A Jordan student won the Intel Talent Search a few years ago. What they don't have is the homogeneity of race and economic class found in "good" schools. To me, that's a good thing. Your kids will get an education about what the world is actually like and have friends from varied backgrounds.
My husband went to a fancy pants science magnet that consistently gets rated as one of the top high schools in the country. I went to a perfectly mediocre public school in Charlotte that is very comparable to Riverside (i.e., not as wealthy of an area as Jordan). Many of our friends went to fancy private schools. I'm the one with a PhD from Duke.
If you provide your kids with the stable home environment and enrichment activities that their classmates lack, your kids will thrive. And they will perhaps grow up to be more socially conscious and compassionate than folks who went to "better" schools.
posted by hydropsyche at 8:26 AM on May 29, 2012 [2 favorites]
One aspect of the suburban versus city school thing is perceived safety. This study indicates that our perception may be wrong. And I know from talking to cops out in bedroom community land where I live that a lot of shit goes down in the schools and doesn't make into the local paper.
We homeschooled so the schools issue never mattered to me. But if I could do it over again, we'd live in much more interesting communities than the bland suburbs that my kids grew up in.
posted by COD at 8:33 AM on May 29, 2012
We homeschooled so the schools issue never mattered to me. But if I could do it over again, we'd live in much more interesting communities than the bland suburbs that my kids grew up in.
posted by COD at 8:33 AM on May 29, 2012
What about charter schools?
Personally, I believe you get out of school what you put into it. In the south "Good Schools" is code for "White People." My parents, hippies that they were, deliberately sought out diverse neighborhoods and I attended some of the poorest, most miserable schools in the country. My sister did great, my experience was not so great. But, I do believe that I'm a better person for the experience. It didn't hurt me any. I shined on my teachers and read a metric ton of books. My parents advocated for me when things got bad, and when I got to high school, I had a blast (as it was as close to Riverdale High as you could get without Archie and Veronica strolling to the quad.)
Personally, I prefer Chapel Hill, I think it's a prettier community, but if you're happy in Durham, then stay and become more involved.
posted by Ruthless Bunny at 9:19 AM on May 29, 2012
Personally, I believe you get out of school what you put into it. In the south "Good Schools" is code for "White People." My parents, hippies that they were, deliberately sought out diverse neighborhoods and I attended some of the poorest, most miserable schools in the country. My sister did great, my experience was not so great. But, I do believe that I'm a better person for the experience. It didn't hurt me any. I shined on my teachers and read a metric ton of books. My parents advocated for me when things got bad, and when I got to high school, I had a blast (as it was as close to Riverdale High as you could get without Archie and Veronica strolling to the quad.)
Personally, I prefer Chapel Hill, I think it's a prettier community, but if you're happy in Durham, then stay and become more involved.
posted by Ruthless Bunny at 9:19 AM on May 29, 2012
Let's also not forget that having a school with homogenous middle-to-upperclass families is not a guarantee of "safety" by a LONG shot. In my area, the horror stories came from the rich- kid Catholic high school. You've got kids who feel protected and thus take bigger risks, kids who have more disposable income, kids who get flashy cars, kids who don't have to pay for things (literal and metaphorical) themselves. Can you say Less Than Zero?
posted by Madamina at 9:25 AM on May 29, 2012
posted by Madamina at 9:25 AM on May 29, 2012
Yeah, to be clear, safety and homogeneity of community isn't our primary concern, here (this is Tooty's partner). How urban the environment is doesn't matter much, either, as it'll probably be about the same in Chapel Hill as it is where we are now.
It's all about the education. As Tooty said, we'd be happy to just stay in Durham (known as the less "safe" place in the triangle, but whatever), but we want to make sure our son is as prepared as possible to be happy and successful in life. What we want to know, here, is how much his grade-and-high school experience is going to matter when it comes to that.
posted by hought20 at 9:40 AM on May 29, 2012
It's all about the education. As Tooty said, we'd be happy to just stay in Durham (known as the less "safe" place in the triangle, but whatever), but we want to make sure our son is as prepared as possible to be happy and successful in life. What we want to know, here, is how much his grade-and-high school experience is going to matter when it comes to that.
posted by hought20 at 9:40 AM on May 29, 2012
Best answer: I'm not sure what kind if information you're looking for. I've known kids who went to non-magnet, non-charter DPS schools for K-12 who are now attending Harvard, Yale, Brandeis, Williams, Davidson, and Duke (not to mention various UNC schools, Elon, Warren Wilson, etc.) Does that help?
posted by hydropsyche at 9:51 AM on May 29, 2012
posted by hydropsyche at 9:51 AM on May 29, 2012
It does, yeah, because I am interested in that sort of thing.
Sorry if I sounded snippy in my earlier comment. I think we just want to know how other normal people make these decisions, and truly, discussions of safety and urban versus suburban does play a big role in this kind of decision for some folks, so I should've left it be.
It's just a stressy decision right now, and I probably need to accept that there's no easy answer.
Carry on; I'm staying out of the thread from now on.
posted by hought20 at 9:56 AM on May 29, 2012
Sorry if I sounded snippy in my earlier comment. I think we just want to know how other normal people make these decisions, and truly, discussions of safety and urban versus suburban does play a big role in this kind of decision for some folks, so I should've left it be.
It's just a stressy decision right now, and I probably need to accept that there's no easy answer.
Carry on; I'm staying out of the thread from now on.
posted by hought20 at 9:56 AM on May 29, 2012
Best answer: I'm not saying that, as I said in another thread, following the answer to "What Would Tiger Mother Do?" is the right answer. However, it's worth thinking about what such a person would do and forming a coherent reason why the alternative is a better idea.
If an achievement-oriented environment is your main priority, then either Chapel Hill or one of the magnet schools in Durham should be your main focus. If other aspects of schools are things you consider important that Chapel Hill can't provide but that Durham can (not that girl is an example) , then maybe you might want that.
posted by deanc at 9:56 AM on May 29, 2012
If an achievement-oriented environment is your main priority, then either Chapel Hill or one of the magnet schools in Durham should be your main focus. If other aspects of schools are things you consider important that Chapel Hill can't provide but that Durham can (not that girl is an example) , then maybe you might want that.
posted by deanc at 9:56 AM on May 29, 2012
I raised my kids in Ithaca, NY, which supposedly has excellent public schools; very few parents there send their kids to private schools. The schools brag about how many of their students get into top colleges, etc. Well, guess what? Of course kids whose parents went to top colleges, parents who work or teach at Cornell, are very likely to do as well themselves. The schools actually did not serve less-privileged kids very well; poor kids (of any race) had high dropout rates, were under-represented in AP classes, etc.
I know nothing about Chapel Hill schools, but wonder if they're similar. The best predictor, unfortunately, of student success is parents' financial and academic success unless the schools are really horrendous.
posted by mareli at 10:36 AM on May 29, 2012
I know nothing about Chapel Hill schools, but wonder if they're similar. The best predictor, unfortunately, of student success is parents' financial and academic success unless the schools are really horrendous.
posted by mareli at 10:36 AM on May 29, 2012
Response by poster: Thanks for all the responses! This is giving us a lot to think about. A few things:
fwiw, we are definitely not 'burb-type people, and I do feel like our kids would miss out by being brought up in a white-bred sheltered type of atmosphere. But maybe this means we need to be considering a walkable neighborhood in Carrboro rather than a place in Chapel Hill proper.
We are both very invested in his (and any future kid's) education and extracurriculars. And are both overeducated ourselves, so his future prospects are bright already. But he is only 11 months old, so although we think it's advanced and brilliant, we are his moms, and don't have many object measures of his awesomeness. It'll be a few years before he goes to school, but we need to move out of our house this summer, and we want to go ahead and buy a place for the long-term.
Charter schools in Durham are good, and we've thought about them. But given that Durham goes on a lottery system, we can't count on getting into any of them, so we need to be zoned into an acceptable school.
hydropsyche: Our half of Duke Park (west of Roxboro) is actually is zoned for Glenn, not Eastway. And we are close, but not in the Club walk-zone. That is good to know about the Jordan High student, and honestly, yes, we want to know the types of colleges students from these schools are able to get into.
And if we are a little defensive about this not being an academic and not a safety concern, it's because we're both horribly annoyed by the people who harp on Durham as being completely unsafe. We're concerned about the quality of teaching, we're not concerned about our kid's safety while at school.
posted by Tooty McTootsalot at 11:05 AM on May 29, 2012
fwiw, we are definitely not 'burb-type people, and I do feel like our kids would miss out by being brought up in a white-bred sheltered type of atmosphere. But maybe this means we need to be considering a walkable neighborhood in Carrboro rather than a place in Chapel Hill proper.
We are both very invested in his (and any future kid's) education and extracurriculars. And are both overeducated ourselves, so his future prospects are bright already. But he is only 11 months old, so although we think it's advanced and brilliant, we are his moms, and don't have many object measures of his awesomeness. It'll be a few years before he goes to school, but we need to move out of our house this summer, and we want to go ahead and buy a place for the long-term.
Charter schools in Durham are good, and we've thought about them. But given that Durham goes on a lottery system, we can't count on getting into any of them, so we need to be zoned into an acceptable school.
hydropsyche: Our half of Duke Park (west of Roxboro) is actually is zoned for Glenn, not Eastway. And we are close, but not in the Club walk-zone. That is good to know about the Jordan High student, and honestly, yes, we want to know the types of colleges students from these schools are able to get into.
And if we are a little defensive about this not being an academic and not a safety concern, it's because we're both horribly annoyed by the people who harp on Durham as being completely unsafe. We're concerned about the quality of teaching, we're not concerned about our kid's safety while at school.
posted by Tooty McTootsalot at 11:05 AM on May 29, 2012
I grew up in Winston, went to college in Greensboro, and now am trying to raise my three year old in Charlotte... so I definitely share your concern over the schools here. We got tired of the calculus involved in house versus neighborhood versus schools versus everything else, and just decided to bite the bullet and send ours to private schools. Some of them can be quite pricey, but there are quite a few bargains to be had. Like everything else you just have to do your homework to find your answer.
I only know of Durham Academy over there, which seems to be the "name brand" school in the area, but I'm sure there are a half dozen others that are just as good on the side of town you're looking for. Heck, most of the religious schools on my side of the state are "mass every Friday" religious in name only, and just about all of the ones we looked at would gladly accept kids from other religious/non-religious backgrounds.
Now, I went to Catholic school myself, but it was the "bargain" version of private school. We did have a few people that got brand new whatevers on their 16th birthday, but I and the large majority of my classmates did not. I worked summers and saved up about two grand for my thirteen year old beater, and it fit in the parking space I earned for having a decent GPA just fine.
It also gave me some perspective both as to what it was like to have more than some people and less than others. One good example; my dad didn't make anything close to what the other parents did, still doesn't I suppose, and even turned down a higher paying job so that he could have a better work life balance. In theory I could have had a father that made more money and could afford to buy me a new car, but I'm glad I had the one that attended every soccer match I played in four years of high school, even the ones he had to drive 2+ hours to get to.
Anyway, my point is that your kids will learn as much from your parenting than whatever the difference between school A and school B is. Generally speaking, kids tend to replicate what their parents enjoy, so if you show an interest in their education, ask them what they did that day, volunteer to chaperon field trips, whatever... chances are they'll take advantage of the opportunities they do have, and you won't have to worry about the innumerable opportunities they may have missed out on.
posted by Blue_Villain at 12:53 PM on May 29, 2012
I only know of Durham Academy over there, which seems to be the "name brand" school in the area, but I'm sure there are a half dozen others that are just as good on the side of town you're looking for. Heck, most of the religious schools on my side of the state are "mass every Friday" religious in name only, and just about all of the ones we looked at would gladly accept kids from other religious/non-religious backgrounds.
Now, I went to Catholic school myself, but it was the "bargain" version of private school. We did have a few people that got brand new whatevers on their 16th birthday, but I and the large majority of my classmates did not. I worked summers and saved up about two grand for my thirteen year old beater, and it fit in the parking space I earned for having a decent GPA just fine.
It also gave me some perspective both as to what it was like to have more than some people and less than others. One good example; my dad didn't make anything close to what the other parents did, still doesn't I suppose, and even turned down a higher paying job so that he could have a better work life balance. In theory I could have had a father that made more money and could afford to buy me a new car, but I'm glad I had the one that attended every soccer match I played in four years of high school, even the ones he had to drive 2+ hours to get to.
Anyway, my point is that your kids will learn as much from your parenting than whatever the difference between school A and school B is. Generally speaking, kids tend to replicate what their parents enjoy, so if you show an interest in their education, ask them what they did that day, volunteer to chaperon field trips, whatever... chances are they'll take advantage of the opportunities they do have, and you won't have to worry about the innumerable opportunities they may have missed out on.
posted by Blue_Villain at 12:53 PM on May 29, 2012
Best answer: Okay, my mind is a little blown. I really misunderstood your question. Yes, kids who go to regular (not "good") public schools go on to good colleges. (Some of us even go on to be college professors.) DPS is a good place with good support from the community and from Duke and NCCU, both of which have invested significant time and money into the schools.
Lots of Duke faculty send their kids to public schools, even though they get paid enough to have other options. My PhD advisor's kids are at Morehead Montessori (I think they would have gone to Forest View otherwise, which is a very nice place). I knew other faculty and grad students with kids at EK Powe, Watts, New Hope, Creekside, and Club Blvd elementaries, Brogden, Carrington, Githens, and Rogers-Herr middle schools, Riverside, Jordan, Hillside, Southern, and Northern high schools, and Durham School of the Arts, as well as at Central Park and Voyagers charter schools.
County Commissioner Ellen Reckhow's kids both graduated from Riverside and are now at (probably graduated by now) Ivy League schools (Her husband is a recently retired Duke professor). One of my very best research students at Duke was a Jordan graduate--he also volunteered his time in the schools, including at Eastway, while at Duke because it was important to him. I went to First Presbyterian Church downtown, and in that large, diverse community, I only knew a handful of people who sent their kids to private schools. I hope that this helps.
posted by hydropsyche at 1:24 PM on May 29, 2012
Lots of Duke faculty send their kids to public schools, even though they get paid enough to have other options. My PhD advisor's kids are at Morehead Montessori (I think they would have gone to Forest View otherwise, which is a very nice place). I knew other faculty and grad students with kids at EK Powe, Watts, New Hope, Creekside, and Club Blvd elementaries, Brogden, Carrington, Githens, and Rogers-Herr middle schools, Riverside, Jordan, Hillside, Southern, and Northern high schools, and Durham School of the Arts, as well as at Central Park and Voyagers charter schools.
County Commissioner Ellen Reckhow's kids both graduated from Riverside and are now at (probably graduated by now) Ivy League schools (Her husband is a recently retired Duke professor). One of my very best research students at Duke was a Jordan graduate--he also volunteered his time in the schools, including at Eastway, while at Duke because it was important to him. I went to First Presbyterian Church downtown, and in that large, diverse community, I only knew a handful of people who sent their kids to private schools. I hope that this helps.
posted by hydropsyche at 1:24 PM on May 29, 2012
I'm down the road from you.....my kids went to Fayetteville schools. I think you can stay in Durham and do fine. Particularly as you will be involved parents. One of mine got into a service academy and many of his classmates got into good schools as well. And truth be told by the time your child is high school age you will be revisiting the schooling question anyway. Neighborhoods change and schools change.
posted by St. Alia of the Bunnies at 2:10 PM on May 29, 2012
posted by St. Alia of the Bunnies at 2:10 PM on May 29, 2012
The area around Jordan High School is pretty much suburb - so you'd be giving up some of the city living amenities you have in your current location, for a school you say is not as good as those in Chapel Hill.
posted by research monkey at 3:29 PM on May 29, 2012
posted by research monkey at 3:29 PM on May 29, 2012
Response by poster: hydropsyche, the question is more than just knowing that some students from these schools go on to do great things (such as get into top schools and win prestigious competitions), but that is part of it. hought20 and I both came from small-town schools where this was not the case. I got my PhD from UNC, but that was an anomaly, and most students were not expected or guided to excel the way we want ours to be.
We have the opportunity to move to where ever we want to in the area, and we just want to factor in schools when we do so.
posted by Tooty McTootsalot at 8:23 AM on May 30, 2012
We have the opportunity to move to where ever we want to in the area, and we just want to factor in schools when we do so.
posted by Tooty McTootsalot at 8:23 AM on May 30, 2012
Best answer: Do you want to move out of Durham? If not, buy the house you want to live in now, and see what happens. Take a chance on the lottery. If it works out, great. A few years of sub-par elementary school won't make or break your kid! And Durham is changing (for better or worse) and the school system is too. You sound like very invested, supportive and active parents, and there's no way your kid will sink without you knowing. If you need to make a move, you'll be making a decision with better information: maybe he is shy and needs a smaller school, or wants more rigorous academics, or you can afford something like the Carolina Friends School, or another private-type school, or maybe he requires services more readily available elsewhere, or maybe he loves the diversity of Durham and has happy parents, and wouldn't want to move to semi-suburbian Orange County. The Durham School of the Arts is the bomb. And sure, you might not get your first choice in the lottery. But you might! And there are options! And lots of other awesome parents figuring it out alongside you.
Save the money you'd be spending on property taxes (and commuting to Durham for fun events and to visit with friends) and do other enriching activities: summer travel, summer camps, tutoring, ability to volunteer, try new things, etc.
As much as you'd like to make the final decision now, there's just no way to predict what the Future you -- in a Future Durham, with a Future Kid -- will need. So you might as well enjoy your situation until it demands to be changed! Seriously - you have at LEAST six years before this is an issue at all. You're queer parents living in Durham -- do you really want to move to Carrboro for the next six years?! I suspect not. The community of amazing folks in Durham will more than make up for any perceived lack of educational opportunities in the next 10 years.
I completely sympathize with the stress of figuring out the best thing to do now, in order to solve some perceived possible problem down the road. It's something I struggle with all the time, and trying to solve the educational puzzle is one of many things you'll confront as a parent this world of ours. It sounds like you already know what's best, and need some encouragement that it's OK to do the slightly less conventional thing, that to outsiders, looks like a disaster. My suggestion is to try and build strong connections of people who are also doing that less conventional thing, to see their reasons for things that you might want, but can't yet articulate.
Good luck. Eat at the Korean Taco truck for me!
posted by barnone at 3:41 PM on June 4, 2012 [3 favorites]
Save the money you'd be spending on property taxes (and commuting to Durham for fun events and to visit with friends) and do other enriching activities: summer travel, summer camps, tutoring, ability to volunteer, try new things, etc.
As much as you'd like to make the final decision now, there's just no way to predict what the Future you -- in a Future Durham, with a Future Kid -- will need. So you might as well enjoy your situation until it demands to be changed! Seriously - you have at LEAST six years before this is an issue at all. You're queer parents living in Durham -- do you really want to move to Carrboro for the next six years?! I suspect not. The community of amazing folks in Durham will more than make up for any perceived lack of educational opportunities in the next 10 years.
I completely sympathize with the stress of figuring out the best thing to do now, in order to solve some perceived possible problem down the road. It's something I struggle with all the time, and trying to solve the educational puzzle is one of many things you'll confront as a parent this world of ours. It sounds like you already know what's best, and need some encouragement that it's OK to do the slightly less conventional thing, that to outsiders, looks like a disaster. My suggestion is to try and build strong connections of people who are also doing that less conventional thing, to see their reasons for things that you might want, but can't yet articulate.
Good luck. Eat at the Korean Taco truck for me!
posted by barnone at 3:41 PM on June 4, 2012 [3 favorites]
This thread is closed to new comments.
That said, the people I know who went to mediocre high schools but placed in the very top of their graduating class ended up perfectly successful in life.
The difference, I think, is this: the administration, college counselors, and much of the school infrastructure simply won't consider your kids to be that much of a priority in systems like Durham's because they have a lot of larger problems to deal with. If you feel you're willing to take up the slack there, then I'm sure your kids will be ok.
From a real estate perspective, a house in a top school district is a safer investment.
posted by deanc at 7:53 AM on May 29, 2012 [1 favorite]