How can I stop being overly emotional and just learn to trust again?

April 18, 2012 3:15 AM

I'm still dealing with the aftermath of infidelity and would like some advice.

I found picture evidence about 2 months ago that my partner had been in a 6-8 month sexual relationship with someone else. We had discussed polyamory at the beginning of the relationship, since I knew he had been in poly relations in previous partnerships, and we both agreed at neither of us were interested in any kind of open relationship. I'd checked in over the course of the past two years, to ensure that the arrangement was still acceptable, and he claimed that it was. I have been living over 5 hours away for the entirety of this relationship, but am moving close to him in about three weeks. After we talked expansively about my 'discovery', I decided that I was willing to work through this and continue the relationship, and I'm not exactly asking if that was the wrong decision. He tells me that it's over, I'm not willing to end the otherwise best partnership that I've ever been in just yet, and I'm absolutely trying to "move on" and just be excited that we can be around each other any time we want to! According to him, the cheating happened as a result of the distance and his extreme feelings of loneliness. I tried to do all the right things for my sanity: I asked all the questions I felt I wanted or needed an answer to, I let myself be emotional if I had to be, and I talked extensively with a close friend as well as my partner about my feelings of hurt and betrayal. He was totally forthcoming with answers to everything and seems genuinely repentant (he basically kept repeating "I fucked up" and " I dont ever want to hurt you again" between apologies) though it hasn't come up for about a month. I snark about it occasionally, but either he pretends to not understand, or chooses to not go there.

Here's my question as of right now: since I was so open about my feelings etc right after I discovered what had happened, I feel as if belaboring the point now will be read as excessive. By the time I found out what had happened, it had been over for about 8 months, so it was 'old news' in some ways to my partner. I don't feel unhappy, hurt, etc all the time, and I am genuinely trying to trust him, but I just feel like I've reached a statute of limitations on my emotional reactions or mistrust. I'm still far away right now, and every time I can't get a hold of him or if he says he's going out, I get a twinge of worry. How do I move past this? Obviously it won't be an issue once I move there, if his reasons for the cheating were true, but some nights I just feel like I'm being totally irrationally concerned about this and don't feel comfortable bringing it up over the phone with him. I'm also worried that I will continue to not trust him even when I do live close, and that my mistrust will ruin the relationship.

How do I move on and start trusting him again? What can he do to functionally prove a negative: that he isn't cheating on me, even though I "know" that it's pretty unlikely? What do I do to stop feeling like this? I don't want to ruin this because I'm dwelling on something I already made the decision about. Advice from anyone who has dealt with cheating and moved on in the relationship will be most greatly appreciated, but just common sense will help me too, I'm sure.

posted by zinful to human relations (45 answers total)

Trust has to be earned. He may feel it's "old news," but two months ago isn't that long of a time (for you to have found out), and he's not within your sight lines, as it were, being in a long-distance relationship.

The thing is, you can't force someone into being trustworthy by questioning them all the time. If he's going to cheat, he'll cheat, whether you're watching him like a hawk or not paying too much attention to his comings and goings. The latter approach will probably make him feel less uncomfortable and give your mind a much-needed break.

Worry rarely solves anything, so at least give yourself the breathing room to act as if you trust him. If you still don't trust him, you (alone or with him) should find some way to work through this mistrust (therapy or some other means) or just break it off, because trust is the one thing any good relationship can't do without.
posted by xingcat at 4:23 AM on April 18, 2012 [3 favorites]

How do I move on and start trusting him again? What can he do to functionally prove a negative: that he isn't cheating on me, even though I "know" that it's pretty unlikely?

Most people in your situation at least have the benefit of living in the same city as the person they're giving a second chance. So they can check on them and make sure they can be trusted.

You don't have that pr
posted by jayder at 4:30 AM on April 18, 2012

... oximity, so it's going to be doubly hard for you to rebuild trust.
posted by jayder at 4:31 AM on April 18, 2012

Wait a minute - you don't think you have the right to feel hurt, but he had the right to cheat on you for 6 months? The reason you still feel hurt is the reason the vast majority of people would have broken up in this situation: there is no reason to trust him, and it takes more than 2 months to get over this kind of betrayal.

I'm really wondering why you think you need to suck it up here and control your emotions, while giving him a massive pass?
posted by yarly at 4:38 AM on April 18, 2012 [30 favorites]

yarly, I don't think the OP or anyone else is saying he had a "right" to cheat, so let's take one step back from the brink. The OP says she feels nothing constructive can come from belabor ring her partners indiscretion, and wants to move on and make things better. That's what we should be working towards.

However, I think yarly is right that you shouldn't just suck it up. Your trust was breached and that leaves scars. Time heals all wounds and if you're willing, I think talking about it, in a non-judgmental way, with friends, therapists and even your partner, is a good starting point.
posted by Effigy2000 at 4:48 AM on April 18, 2012 [1 favorite]

The brutal truth is, you can't trust him. If you discussed polyamory he clearly doesn't have personal moral inhibitions about sex with someone else: he refrains because he doesn't want to hurt you - but won't he tell himself when tempted that you won't be hurt if you never find out?

I suspect you realise this unconsciously and that's why you can't move on. It's tough, but I think you have to accept you'll never really be able to trust him to be faithful and then work out whether you can cope with that or not.
posted by Segundus at 5:07 AM on April 18, 2012 [9 favorites]

As others have said, this wasn't a moment of passion infidelity. This was a ritualized violation of your trust over a long period of time. Most relationships would end from such a gross breach of trust.

You have every right to take the time you need to heal and in all honesty your partner may never earn back the trust that was lost. His acts of infidelity may have permanently undermined any chance of a happy, healthy romantic relationship between you two. When all is said and done, only you can decide whether walking away from this relationship is best for you.

While he seemed genuinely repentant, he did not seem to have explored the causes of his cheating. IMHO, loneliness just feels like a cop out and perhaps a way to build trust again would be to non-judgementally dig deeper into some of the though processes, rationalizations, and internalized attitudes that caused him to feel that cheating on you repeatedly was justifiable.

It sounds like you two have good communication and that you felt satisfied by your initial discussion. However, I would warn against continuing to snark him about it. Not just because it may belie unresolved issues on your end (e.g trust), but because it is not helpful to the healing process for either of you. Though, I've been there and it feels damn good after being hurt. :)

From reading your post, there is no doubt in my mind that you want to make this relationship work and I hope your partner shares the same level of commitment. But it is key to remember: it's just as important to make a relationship work as it is to make it work for you.

Your happiness is the most important thing. Only you can decide what is best for you. I wish you luck. :)
posted by iheijoushin at 5:13 AM on April 18, 2012

According to him, the cheating happened as a result of the distance and his extreme feelings of loneliness.

According to me, you deserve a partner who will stick with his commitments.

If he couldn't hack being away from you, he had options. He could have attempted to negotiate an opening of your relationship, or broken up. He didn't do that; he went behind your back instead.

If you comb my back catalog of AskMe relationship answers, you will find that I am a consistent promoter of going into relationships with eyes wide open and a heart full of trust. But if somebody did that to me, I would dump them without a second thought. I don't know how to extend unconditional trust to somebody demonstrably untrustworthy, and don't see why I should learn; I think that kind of betrayal reveals a character flaw that I have absolutely no desire to live with.

I think you'd be better off with somebody else, and I think he needs to learn that the consequence of betrayal is loss.
posted by flabdablet at 5:15 AM on April 18, 2012 [31 favorites]

I think you will stop being overly emotional and learn to trust again when you are in a relationship with someone who doesn't systematically betray your trust and use your emotions against you.

In case it isn't clear, I think that relationship will be with someone who isn't this guy.

There's nothing wrong with you.
posted by tel3path at 5:24 AM on April 18, 2012 [15 favorites]

You present your problem as if there's something wrong with you for not trusting him, as if logically, trusting him now would make sense but your pesky feelings intervene.

Relationships are not made out of logic but from feelings so will not change because of rational argument (if trust is even rational here.) You may never trust him again. That he sincerely regrets what "happened" (let's assume this is true for the sake of argument) isn't enough. Even if you both wish, somehow, to go back to how it was between you, that doesn't mean it's possible. My suggestion would be to work with someone (e.g. a couples therapist) to explore the complex feelings that need to be addressed. Or to break up.
posted by Obscure Reference at 5:37 AM on April 18, 2012 [3 favorites]

Loneliness is a very weak excuse for violating commitment, especially when it's clear he could have renegotiated with you if he thought of your feelings or of respecting his commitment to the relationship with you.

Something's broken with him. He did not respect your or his commitment to the relationship when he was unilateral and unfaithful. Instead he could have talked with you, sorted it out and waited to consummate the other relationship until he was sure his commitment was sorted with you.

Maybe he was in a situation where he felt he couldn't wait? But that I think also boils down to the same problem - some lack of ability to delay gratification which for me boils down to lack of respect or caring for you or his commitments.

Did he make a single mistake and will he learn? Maybe. Do you want to find out the hard way? Is it worth it to you to risk that in staying with him? I think these are questions only you can answer.

But I think it all relies, as you say, on trust. For me, in cases where I had to get over trust issues to stay in relationships, what usually happened was that I made allowances, got over what I could on my own, and it took a few years but cheating happened again. I'm sorry to give you bad news.
posted by kalessin at 5:40 AM on April 18, 2012

Go with your gut on this.

It's yelling at you and you're not listening.
posted by jbenben at 5:55 AM on April 18, 2012 [6 favorites]

Part of being in relationship is being in the same place emotionally and mentally or in agreed upon different places. For instance, one part of a couple might be off in grad school, while the other is busy being the major income source. That's an agreed upon different space, with the obvious thought being that time 'apart' will be beneficial to the couple in the long run.

The problem here is that ya'll are in two different, non-agreed upon space, both mentally and emotionally and both of you aren't making effort to get in the same mental space.

So, more talking, more dating, more doing things together is needed. You can't just bottle this up and try to move on when you haven't actually moved. Talk to the dude and get ya'll on the same page.
posted by Brandon Blatcher at 6:03 AM on April 18, 2012 [5 favorites]

Loneliness is a very weak excuse for violating commitment

I guess I disagree. Loneliness is incredibly powerful, at least for some people. The only times I have cheated and/or been cheated on were during long distance relationships, and loneliness was absolutely a driving factor. And at least in my limited experience, infidelity doesn't happen in single big event, but as the culmination of a million little violations, each of which you feel guilty about but that also open the door to the next step.

I'm not giving the guy a free pass or anything like that, just being honest and saying that what he did isn't something that has never been done by an otherwise good and trustworthy person, and that at least sometimes cheating doesn't turn into a serial event.

Regarding the question at hand, I think that it isn't accidental that you are asking this three weeks before moving to be with him. That makes things real, and brings all these emotions to the surface.

I agree with what Brandon Blatcher just wrote -- if you are going to make this relationship work, you need to rebuild it and get back to the same place. That means treating your move as the beginning, and putting the time and effort into dating, building trust, creating communication, and rebuilding intimacy. He needs to understand explicitly that this means a huge investment of time and energy, much more than one would normally do in the middle of a long-standing relationship.

And give yourself the freedom (especially now, in the next three weeks before your move) to really make a decision about this, not just drift forwards. Be sure in your heart and gut that you want this and that this is good for you, and be sure that you can spend the time and energy to rebuild a solid relationship.
posted by Forktine at 6:09 AM on April 18, 2012 [7 favorites]

Is he your primary reason for moving? If so, reconsider, delay, or cancel move.

Do you have other reasons for moving there? Do you have friends in the area? A support network? A job lined up? Your own housing?
posted by mareli at 6:20 AM on April 18, 2012 [2 favorites]

You're being awfully tentative for someone whose partner - and I use the term incredibly loosely - stomped all over their trust for six months because they were lonely.

Look: The only reason you have for thinking he's not going to cheat on you again - or that he's not doing it right now, five hours away - is that he told you he was sorry and doesn't want to hurt you. And no offense, but it has already been demonstrated that he's able to deceive you successfully. You know it's unlikely he'll cheat on you, but you knew that before, too. What's different now? Especially because you were the one who caught him, and he went eight months without seeing any pressing need to tell you he'd done this to you?

So what does this mean? It means that nothing but time is going to fix this, and two months is not nearly enough time. It means that if he's genuinely contrite about this then he needs to take his lumps. You don't trust him. You shouldn't trust him. He's not trustworthy. If he's going to prove himself trustworthy, he's going to have to do that over a long, long time and both he and you need to accept that your trust in him has been shattered.

Good luck.
posted by FAMOUS MONSTER at 6:37 AM on April 18, 2012 [6 favorites]

When it (allegedly) ended is immaterial. When you found out is. We're all different, but the thought of anyone fully and truly coming to terms with this, being over it, etc., in about nine weeks is challenging.

Take every bit of time you need for all that, breathing in the literal and figurative sense, etc.
posted by ambient2 at 7:02 AM on April 18, 2012 [2 favorites]

I agree that nine weeks is not enough time (it usually takes several years of exemptlary behaviour to regain trust after major lying just so you can see where you fit in the "norm") and you are holding yourself to absurdly high expectations.

You moving to him is you showing an incredible amount of trust in him. To me, it is completely natural that you are struggling with this, especially as you do not describe him as overly contrite or making the necessary behaviour changes needed to make you feel safe and secure in this relationship. If he called you tomorrow and broke up with you would you still move to his town or is he the main reason for moving? Are you going closer to your support system or further away? What about your job/school/career trajectory, is this move better or worse for this choice? Is your priority now this relationship or you?

Maybe you need to delay the plans to move, or move only if he agrees to finance (up-front) your escape plan, or whatever else you can think to make you feel secure, if not trusting, in this relationship. Both of you should understand that he has broken your trust and he now has to earn it back, even if it is sometimes uncomfortable or inconvient for him.

It is okay, even normal!, to try for a while after infidelity but decide that the relationship and trust are too broken to continue. Don't feel like because you have told him you will try this relationship that you are then committed to that decision. Make the choice that is best for you.
posted by saucysault at 8:46 AM on April 18, 2012 [3 favorites]

If there is a statute of limitations on being distressed and worried, and I don't think there is, then the clock started when you found out (not when he says he stopped) and the length is at least as long as the entire betrayal, which I'm reading as 16 months (8 months of cheating, 8 months of not telling you.)

And please realize that this was not a moment of weakness: this was a lifestyle. He was unfaithful for what, 25% of your total relationship to date? That's a really big deal.

In any case, "should" and human emotions don't even exist in the same dimension. Give yourself a break, figure out what you really feel, want, and need, and worry a lot less about his rights and "fairness" for a while. Therapy can help with that.
posted by SMPA at 8:50 AM on April 18, 2012 [2 favorites]

At different times in my life, I've been both him and you.

How do I move on and start trusting him again?

You can't. Cheaters cheat. Liars lie. Good people do neither.

Getting caught doesn't suddenly make one honest.
posted by coolguymichael at 9:25 AM on April 18, 2012 [3 favorites]

Are you saying, Michael, that you yourself are a liar still, a cheater still, and not a good person? That's pretty harsh.

I think the OP needs her partner to take the positive steps to make this ok, and not put all the burden of trust on herself.
posted by Pomo at 9:58 AM on April 18, 2012 [2 favorites]

The fact that months went past after it ended before you found out - and he never voluntarily told you, and would clearly have continued lying to you if you hadn't found out are the things that bring everything to a stop for me. It's just smart not to trust people who act in untrustworthy ways. No matter how sorry he is. And saying "I fucked up" and "I never want to hurt you again" do not sound all that indicative of a deep soul-level change that makes him sorry for what he did and determined not to do it again so much as they sound to me like being sorry that he got caught for what it could cost him, not for breaking his word to you and hurting you.
posted by lemniskate at 10:10 AM on April 18, 2012 [1 favorite]

oh, i have so been where you are. i gave it a year.

seriously, don't waste that year.

there are folks out there who are going to love the hell out of you so hard that they wouldn't in their wildest dreams think of doing something like this to you. those are the ones you hang onto.
posted by crawfo at 10:50 AM on April 18, 2012 [4 favorites]

Find someone to talk to who isn't him. Preferably, a therapist or someone impartial that you can really unload on. You are under a lot of stress. You have an impending move, getting over a hurtful event, and you're in a relationship with someone you can't trust. You aren't going to be able to forgive him just because you want everything to be the way it used to be. It doesn't work that way. The fact that he hurt you badly is not going to go away because you want the hurt to go away. You are not being overly emotional. Face your emotions--even the ugly ones, like jealousy, insecurity, and fear of losing him. For that, it would really help if you had a sympathetic ear and an outside perspective. I don't know what the rest of your relationship is like; maybe it can be saved. But it can't be saved if you try to act like nothing is wrong and blame yourself for being upset.

I'm sorry for the harsh tone; I'm really sorry this happened to you. You didn't deserve this.
posted by rhythm and booze at 10:52 AM on April 18, 2012 [7 favorites]

If you discussed polyamory he clearly doesn't have personal moral inhibitions about sex with someone else

This is a total red herring. People in poly and open relationships can and do make binding agreements and keep them, with at least the same consistency as people in monogamous relationships. People who have been in poly and open relationships can choose to be in monogamous relationships and make binding agreements to that effect and keep them, with at least the same consistency as people who have only previously been in monogamous relationships.

The issue here isn't poly or open relationships; the issue is that he lied and broke their agreement.

I just feel like I've reached a statute of limitations on my emotional reactions or mistrust

OP, do you really feel that? Or do you feel that you ought to feel that? I don't think you have to move on from this at any pace other than the one that feels natural to you.
posted by Sidhedevil at 11:39 AM on April 18, 2012 [1 favorite]

I do feel poly is somewhat relevant, though no guarantee of anything. There are people out there who are constitutionally unable to have multiple partners.
posted by yarly at 11:46 AM on April 18, 2012

One other thing - this kind of stuck in my head a bit and I think it may be relevant: You found picture evidence? Can you expand on that a little?
posted by FAMOUS MONSTER at 12:23 PM on April 18, 2012

The idea that someone who has previously been in poly or open relationships is therefore incapable of being trusted to keep a monogamy agreement is just so off that I can't even discuss it calmly. So I will just say that, in my experience, people who have had other experiences and choose to be monogamous are actually better at keeping their monogamy agreements than people who have not created those agreements as a conscious choice.
posted by Sidhedevil at 12:53 PM on April 18, 2012 [1 favorite]

First, thank you everyone so much for your advice! Even the DTMFA people, haha. :) I didn't add that, yes, if this happens again it's over, and I think living nearby will make it more obvious if there's any infidelity.

One thing I did get from him is the promise of a divorce, which I can now safely out myself as being the most recent anon poster asking about. I can't really give details about why he was still married, (a bunch of highly personal legal stuff) but I did ask that he start the process as an affidavit of good faith and he did. I feel like I should be asking for more affidavits, but I really don't know what else he could say or do.

What do I mean by picture evidence? Pictures. And video. Of the acts occurring. With timestamps, so I know when it happened. Obviously, I don't know how many times (he told me about 6-7), but it was pretty damning, due to timestamping and since there was a gift I gave him in the background of some of the video. I was snooping on his computer (not because I suspected anything, but because I was trying to find video OF US) and stumbled on it. I wish I had found out through some other means, because those images are burned into my brain. It was worse the first couple weeks, but just writing about them is making me see them again.

I'm trying to think of my move as "starting fresh", as a couple people suggested upthread, but I don't know how to get myself in the headspace, since ignoring the first two years of my slowly learning how to trust people would not put me in a good place overall (I had trust issues before this relationship, so you can imagine this is especially difficult). I still feel like I'm further ahead than when I started, but when I think about what happened sometimes I become that hard, uncaring, mistrustful person I used to be, just for a second.

Re:the statute of limitations/where I "should" be. It just seems like bringing it up over and over, without a productive plan of "you doing x will make me feel better and trust you again" is just prolonging the hurtful stuff and not moving forward. I will stop being snarky about it, though it's hard not to be. :) I'm a bit snarky by disposition, but I'm not seeking to punish him.

Finally, leminiskate: I thought that too, that he was sorry he got caught specifically! What kinds of things can I ask for/wait for that would clear my probably emotional impression of "oh god, you weren't supposed to know about that because I knew you'd be unhappy, I'll try harder to not get caught next time"?

I also just want to add that our relationship seemed to get stronger about 6-8 months ago, though I just wrote that up to my getting off hormonal bc and growing as a person overall. Now I see that it's probably because they stopped the cheating stuff. This might not be relevant, but I thought it might be important after reading everything upthread.

I'm not willing to end it just yet, and I'm too poor for therapy (grad student income!). I've worked so hard to grow as a person and be able to feel love and trust like a real grown up (I'm 29), that not giving someone a second chance feels like a huge neglect of empathy.
posted by zinful at 1:07 PM on April 18, 2012

Oh, also, I'm not moving specifically because of him, though proximity to his apartment influenced my apartment hunt a bit ;) I'm graduating and moving to the closest major city to my family, where I have a job lined up (which adds difficulty I guess, since I will technically be his coworker though we are in different departments). I'm so not willing to delay my move because I hate living in this crappy college town (and I've already put down a non refundable deposit on my new place).
posted by zinful at 1:22 PM on April 18, 2012

I thought that too, that he was sorry he got caught specifically! What kinds of things can I ask for/wait for that would clear my probably emotional impression of "oh god, you weren't supposed to know about that because I knew you'd be unhappy, I'll try harder to not get caught next time"?

Have you and he talked specifically about this concern? (Which is reasonable on your part, given that he kept this relationship and the sex videos of same [!!!!!!] secret from you and you found them by accident.)

Repairing trust that has been broken is hard. Hard, hard, hard. I know that there is some book about coping with infidelity in relationships that various people here have recommended that has stuff like "accountability plans" and similar strategies, but I can't remember the title or author. Maybe a search of the "infidelity" tag on the Green will elicit it.
posted by Sidhedevil at 1:34 PM on April 18, 2012 [1 favorite]

That's sort of what I was afraid of.

He recorded himself having a six-month affair. He did this between six and seven times. He kept the evidence. He left it lying around on his computer.

Look...I know you want to be trusting and caring, but there is a definite risk of pushing too far in the opposite direction. I guess all I can say here is that it might not be a bad idea to look for a different job when you're settled, so you don't have to have contact with him if this all explodes.

What kinds of things can I ask for/wait for that would clear my probably emotional impression of "oh god, you weren't supposed to know about that because I knew you'd be unhappy, I'll try harder to not get caught next time"?

There really isn't anything. You need to make the decision to try to build trust and to accept that you are trying to build trust in a person who is not trustworthy at all. Is it helping to make cutting comments? No, not really, but everyone deals with things in their own way. That urge may fade as trust grows, I don't know.

I'm having a really hard time seeing this from any angle that suggests it's not a really bad idea. Only you can say for sure whether or not you think this is worth it, and when you've had enough. But when that inner voice starts talking, please do try to listen to it.
posted by FAMOUS MONSTER at 1:36 PM on April 18, 2012 [5 favorites]

Personally, I considering keeping pics and vids evidence that the affair is still going on, if only in his mind. And it is a well known phenomema that cheaters leave their evidence to be found at crucial juncture of their primary relationship to avoid the adult responsibilty of expressing their feelings and give themselves moral ammunition (you snooped!).

I am not telling you to DTMFA because only you can decide if that is what you want. but maybe you should consider dialling back the relationship you have with your married, lying SO to more of a dating relationship. Where he has to woo you and focus on you rather than a more secure and comfortable hang out on the couch and watch movies kind of relationship. Reduce the time you spend together and enjoy your new city with your friends and family. If you are too poor for therapy then to be honest I would expect him to pay for it, as much as you need.

I'm sorry, you seem really kind and you are treating him very well and accepting a lot of blame for his disfunction. Just so you know, there are men out there that are single and don't lie and don't put your heart through the wringer. If you are thinking about marriage and babies you might want to really examine whether this man can give those things to you without heartache when there are so many other men who can.
posted by saucysault at 1:55 PM on April 18, 2012 [3 favorites]

Also, if he is trying to shuck you with any "Oh, honey, you know I'm a poly person, it's my nature, I'm more evolved, you're just caught in society's restrictive rules, blah blah bonobos" bullshit, that is bullshit.

The ethical thing for someone to do when they find that it is difficult for them to keep a monogamy agreement is to renegotiate the monogamy agreement with their partner, not to just do whatever and break the agreement. This is exactly as true for people who have a strongly polyamorous nature as it is for people who have a strongly monogamous nature.
posted by Sidhedevil at 1:56 PM on April 18, 2012 [2 favorites]

What the what now? He was still married and cheating on you with his wife, or a third person, or six to seven others? Then videoed everything and casually left it lying around? And this is all about your complex trust issues and choice of birth control?

I'm probably not sounding sympathetic here, even though I am, but you make this sound highly complex and nuanced and deeply embedded in your life and career.

If someone did this to me, it would be over swiftly, as in "he didn't suffer, it was mercifully quick".

If you like infidelity and are happy to let him go on like this, stay with him and accept that he will probably also be harming you in ways you don't know about. Trust really seems like an empty issue here - you deal with it by accepting that he is totally untrustworthy, not by trying to summon up trust out of thin air.

I'm sorry you have been put in this position. It sucks.
posted by tel3path at 3:33 PM on April 18, 2012 [3 favorites]

So, you're in a LD arrangement with a married man who's cheating on both you and his wife. Over the course of two years, you've offered multiple times to open up the relationship; but he refused, preferring instead to lie and carry on a months-long affair behind your back. Two months since your discovery, he's tired of your distress, and you wonder what's wrong because you can't trust him.

Of course you can't trust him. He already had your trust and shamelessly abused it!

If it were me, I'd ditch the move and invest that money in therapy instead. Not because you lack empathy, or you're over emotional, or you can't love and trust like a grownup. It's because you need somebody on your side to help you understand that this is class A epic bullshit - you don't deserve it and you don't have to accept it.

You're grasping at this guy like he's your last chance at happiness. Trust me - he's not. Find a job that has nothing to do with him, and stay out of relationships until you find someone who actually deserves your love and trust. Because believe me, IT'S NOT HIM.

This isn't about poly, it's about ethics. This is precisely the sort of hurtful behavior an open relationship is supposed to avoid.
posted by Space Kitty at 3:43 PM on April 18, 2012 [4 favorites]

I'd like to drop in and mention that he isn't "cheating" with his wife--they ended their relationship over a year before I met him, but couldn't get a divorce for legal and financial reasons. These reasons are no longer preventing the divorce, as of about 4 months ago.
posted by zinful at 4:00 PM on April 18, 2012

Okay, so the marriage has just been a legal thing that was continued on paper only for financial reasons? Do you know that to be true? Because it's not like he has the best record of not lying to you right now.

If the marriage thing really has, to your certain knowledge, just been persisting as a legal entanglement but not an emotional entanglement in any way, that simply reduces the problem to him having broken his monogamy agreement with you once that you know about.

Which, yeah, is a big deal and you have every right to still be angry about it and not to trust him.

It's troubling to me that you think you're being "overly emotional" and outside of some mythical "statute of limitations." Lots of people end relationships (of all flavors mono, poly, and open) over the breaking of agreements about sexual ethics.
posted by Sidhedevil at 4:13 PM on April 18, 2012 [1 favorite]

And by "once" I mean "with one person" not "on one occasion" obvs, because it is hard to imagine someone's only romantic and sexual encounter resulting in the making of a sex video.

This guy just seems like a bad news bear, I'm sorry. I agree with everyone who thinks you probably don't trust him because you have good instincts that he's untrustworthy.
posted by Sidhedevil at 4:14 PM on April 18, 2012

yes, if this happens again it's over, and I think living nearby will make it more obvious if there's any infidelity

That isn't how trust works. Married couples, that work together, share a social circle and have deeply enmeshed lives, still manage to cheat and lie to each other for years.
posted by saucysault at 4:19 PM on April 18, 2012 [6 favorites]

not giving someone a second chance feels like a huge neglect of empathy.

A little exercise in empathy for you to contemplate: how would he react if he found out that you'd cheated on him six months ago, and you offered him the same excuses he's offered you?

If your instant reaction to this exercise is "but I would never do that" then the neglect of empathy is his, not yours.
posted by flabdablet at 5:49 PM on April 18, 2012 [2 favorites]

Incidentally, does the other party in the video know they were being recorded?

The only person you are neglecting here, very sadly, is yourself.

- He's messy. He's still married on paper, and he records himself having sex with other women while he's supposedly committed to you.

You will continue to experience what you term "trust issues" for as long as you carry on unnecessarily with men like the one you are asking us about.

It is no more simple or complicated than that.
posted by jbenben at 8:11 PM on April 18, 2012 [2 favorites]

When I'm lonely, I call a friend, or my mom, or go pat puppies at the pet adoption place. Does he not have friends, outside interests, a support system that doesn't involve sex? If not, why not?

Does he have basic adult coping skills to deal with such life realities as loneliness, separation, delayed gratification?

If not, does he have an actionable plan to develop such skills in order to be an excellent partner to you? e.g., has he suggested therapy for himself, or couples counseling to help you regain trust in him?
posted by quivering_fantods at 9:17 PM on April 18, 2012 [4 favorites]

You might want to check out Surviving Infidelity. There are a lot of posts by people wondering why it's taking so long to get over this discovery. I think if you just read through some, you might get an idea of how common your feelings are but also-- more importantly-- how intractable this situation can be.

I snark about it occasionally, but either he pretends to not understand, or chooses to not go there.

This broke my heart a little. I picture you trying to bring it up (in a roundabout way, because that's the only way you can do it) and get some reassurance, and him ignoring you. Or you don't know for sure that he's ignoring you but you're willing to accept it if he is. Honestly, why do you need this? If I'm reading your post right, he was either cheating or lying to you for like twice as long as he wasn't. Really, who needs this shit? But if you want to stay with this guy for whatever reason, you absolutely should be able to bring this issue up and talk about it.
posted by BibiRose at 10:50 PM on April 18, 2012 [3 favorites]

I don't want to babysit the thread, sorry if I am! I just thought people might want to see what's come of all the good advice in here.

BibiRose, that's funny that you recommended that site: I actually just found it last night! It was a help, actually, so I'll credit you with time travel and say thank you.

I talked to him last night about this, after reading that site and everyone's responses and having a bit of a cry. Even though I felt like I was ruining the nice conversation we were having, this thread made me really aware that any conversations we have where I'm unhappy but not expressing my concerns is really just nails in a coffin. I told him that the trust problem isn't located in me, but in him, and that therapy is really the only way to resolve this since he has demonstrated a lack of impulse control, a lack of boundaries and a lack of trustworthiness. He agreed that, since we can't come up with a definite plan between ourselves ("act in a trustworthy way" just isn't enough any longer), couples therapy is a good idea. He says that he's a more stable person now than when the cheating happened, but I think really only therapy with its definite goals and boundaries will establish whether that's true, and he agreed that anything he can do to make me stop hurting will be an obvious plus. We can't start until I move, but just knowing that it's on the horizon and that we have some sort of communication open between us helps me day to day.

Thank you again for everyone's help. It was a tough decision to post this under my user name, but I'm not the most prolific member of MeFi (so its not like I'm ruining my reputation!) and I wanted people to be able to contact me if they're going through something similar.

Thank you for everyone who said DTMFA too! Hearing that, and all the good reasons, made me really have to sit down and organize my priorities, and realize that if I simply can't move forward--if therapy doesn't work, if I'm more unhappy than happy, if it all adds up to me hurting myself--I will need to just walk away to protect myself. We are going to try first, though.
posted by zinful at 1:33 PM on April 19, 2012 [3 favorites]