How do I help a friend through what could be described as either a spiritual or psychological crisis?
April 5, 2012 7:51 PM Subscribe
Is my friend undergoing a spiritual awakening or having a psychotic episode? As an atheist how do I support him either way?
My long term friend and current housemate has just told me he has undergone "Kundalini Awakening", he is not a practising Hindu and has only meditated a very small amount but said he has been through a transcendental experience that after researching online he now is absolutely certain that this is what it is and is now following advice from a variety of sources online for getting through this.
This concerns me for a lot of reasons - year or so ago he went through an incredibly traumatic event (which I won't outline here, even though this is anonymous I don't want the two things connected on the internet because the specificity might make it obvious to people who know him). He has been for several years (until yesterday) a habitual marijuana smoker, has been suffering quite bad mood swings and has lost his job through the worsening of a long term illness (which makes his sleep patterns erratic to say the least) and become very isolated as a result.
Now, I am a big skeptic - I don't believe in mystical energy, crystals or chakra but I am happy to rationalise those beliefs in others if they are of benefit to them and if they feel that terminology seems to be the closest fit. But... when my friend tells me that he now feels he is being led by a higher power that he must accept and resign himself to in order that he might attain full awakening (he must do this or it will be painful for him) - and that he is at the beginning of a journey that may eventually leads to psychic abilities - it really sets off alarm bells.
Generally, all of what he says this experience is leading him towards is utterly benign, about loving one another, forgiving and understanding himself and other people etc. But I must admit it really scares me, partly because its wrapped up in technobabble about not watching TV because it will stimulate the delta waves in his brain (reading Reddit for hours on end is fine though...) and being a 12 dimensional being, existing in a 3 dimensional plane. And partly because I've witnessed another friend have a full on (and terrifying) psychotic episode that was incredibly wrapped up in religious symbolism and the like.
Even some of the sources that I have found online about Kundalini Awakening that are positive about it being a bona fide spiritual connection to a higher plane describe this as a spiritual trauma but there is debate about that being misdiagnosed (or properly diagnosed?) as schizophrenia.
So, how do I support him through what he describes as a religious experience - but one that is indiscernible from psychosis?
Does anyone know anything more about this from a spiritual perspective that might be able to offer advice?
If this is the beginning of some kind of psychotic episode, is there any harm in him dealing with it through spiritual means?
If you have any questions address them to a temporary email I've set up:
askmefi_awakening-x@yahoo.co.uk
My long term friend and current housemate has just told me he has undergone "Kundalini Awakening", he is not a practising Hindu and has only meditated a very small amount but said he has been through a transcendental experience that after researching online he now is absolutely certain that this is what it is and is now following advice from a variety of sources online for getting through this.
This concerns me for a lot of reasons - year or so ago he went through an incredibly traumatic event (which I won't outline here, even though this is anonymous I don't want the two things connected on the internet because the specificity might make it obvious to people who know him). He has been for several years (until yesterday) a habitual marijuana smoker, has been suffering quite bad mood swings and has lost his job through the worsening of a long term illness (which makes his sleep patterns erratic to say the least) and become very isolated as a result.
Now, I am a big skeptic - I don't believe in mystical energy, crystals or chakra but I am happy to rationalise those beliefs in others if they are of benefit to them and if they feel that terminology seems to be the closest fit. But... when my friend tells me that he now feels he is being led by a higher power that he must accept and resign himself to in order that he might attain full awakening (he must do this or it will be painful for him) - and that he is at the beginning of a journey that may eventually leads to psychic abilities - it really sets off alarm bells.
Generally, all of what he says this experience is leading him towards is utterly benign, about loving one another, forgiving and understanding himself and other people etc. But I must admit it really scares me, partly because its wrapped up in technobabble about not watching TV because it will stimulate the delta waves in his brain (reading Reddit for hours on end is fine though...) and being a 12 dimensional being, existing in a 3 dimensional plane. And partly because I've witnessed another friend have a full on (and terrifying) psychotic episode that was incredibly wrapped up in religious symbolism and the like.
Even some of the sources that I have found online about Kundalini Awakening that are positive about it being a bona fide spiritual connection to a higher plane describe this as a spiritual trauma but there is debate about that being misdiagnosed (or properly diagnosed?) as schizophrenia.
So, how do I support him through what he describes as a religious experience - but one that is indiscernible from psychosis?
Does anyone know anything more about this from a spiritual perspective that might be able to offer advice?
If this is the beginning of some kind of psychotic episode, is there any harm in him dealing with it through spiritual means?
If you have any questions address them to a temporary email I've set up:
askmefi_awakening-x@yahoo.co.uk
Is there anyone else in his life who knows him that you could check in with? Psychotic episodes are real and dangerous making sure your friend is being cared for properly doesn't mean you're not being supportive.
posted by ThePinkSuperhero at 8:06 PM on April 5, 2012 [22 favorites]
posted by ThePinkSuperhero at 8:06 PM on April 5, 2012 [22 favorites]
Its not mutually exclusive. And just because something is spiritual doesn't make it safe.
posted by St. Alia of the Bunnies at 8:06 PM on April 5, 2012 [12 favorites]
posted by St. Alia of the Bunnies at 8:06 PM on April 5, 2012 [12 favorites]
And what TPS said. In spades.
posted by St. Alia of the Bunnies at 8:07 PM on April 5, 2012
posted by St. Alia of the Bunnies at 8:07 PM on April 5, 2012
If this is the beginning of some kind of psychotic episode, is there any harm in him dealing with it through spiritual means?
An episode of this severity is going to have serious effects no matter what lens your friend looks at it through. It doesn't matter if "pyschotic episode" is a western description of a spiritual experience or vice versa, because the experience is so very real to the person suffering from it. Don't look at it from the perspective of "How can I reconcile this with my atheism", but from a position of concern for your friend's well being. Is there a way you can gently encourage him to speak with a psychiatric professional? Not always an easy thing to reason with someone in this state, believe me I know. When I had what I described at the time as a spontaenous kundalini awakening (*very* similar to what you describe above, and not an uncommon description among the many people I've spent time with in hospitals over the years) eventually there was a point where that became so terrifying there was no choice but to seek pyschiatric care. The effect of this experience on me was overall extremely negative, and took many years to recover from, despite how great it felt initially. Even now simply revisiting it mometarily brings up a powerful feeling that my head is literally going to explode.
As good as he feels now, it's easy for an experience like this to become its polar opposite. And if you do try to help, keep in mind your friend probably doesn't mean any horrible things he might say in response to these efforts.
As far as the question of whether this is hurting your friend, it often felt like reading the Upanishads during the heigh of this experience was the only thing holding my mind together. If it wasn't that, it would probably would have been "I'm trapped in the matrix" or "God and the Devil are playing a chess game for my soul" or "My life is a reality TV show" or any number of other common manifestations of this that seem to appear regularly in psychotic episodes.
posted by Lorin at 8:26 PM on April 5, 2012 [13 favorites]
An episode of this severity is going to have serious effects no matter what lens your friend looks at it through. It doesn't matter if "pyschotic episode" is a western description of a spiritual experience or vice versa, because the experience is so very real to the person suffering from it. Don't look at it from the perspective of "How can I reconcile this with my atheism", but from a position of concern for your friend's well being. Is there a way you can gently encourage him to speak with a psychiatric professional? Not always an easy thing to reason with someone in this state, believe me I know. When I had what I described at the time as a spontaenous kundalini awakening (*very* similar to what you describe above, and not an uncommon description among the many people I've spent time with in hospitals over the years) eventually there was a point where that became so terrifying there was no choice but to seek pyschiatric care. The effect of this experience on me was overall extremely negative, and took many years to recover from, despite how great it felt initially. Even now simply revisiting it mometarily brings up a powerful feeling that my head is literally going to explode.
As good as he feels now, it's easy for an experience like this to become its polar opposite. And if you do try to help, keep in mind your friend probably doesn't mean any horrible things he might say in response to these efforts.
As far as the question of whether this is hurting your friend, it often felt like reading the Upanishads during the heigh of this experience was the only thing holding my mind together. If it wasn't that, it would probably would have been "I'm trapped in the matrix" or "God and the Devil are playing a chess game for my soul" or "My life is a reality TV show" or any number of other common manifestations of this that seem to appear regularly in psychotic episodes.
posted by Lorin at 8:26 PM on April 5, 2012 [13 favorites]
I'm not going to lie, your question scares the shit out of me. I've got personal experience here, that I'm going to share, but recognize that I may very well be over-reacting and that my experiences may not parallel yours.
Over the course of many days, I was a witness to what has heretofore been diagnosed (among other things) as a "Brief Reactive Psychosis, not otherwise specified" that resulted in someone's murder. There are many similarities here:
1- Habitual marijuana use stopped cold turkey.
2- Technobabble about unplugging electrical devices due to the potential influence on the brain by the electricity. (internet was not pervasive at the time)
3- Resigning oneself to a "higher power" in order to transcend.
4- Talking (uncharacteristically) a lot about love (though more in the context of nature than people in this case)
I agree whole-heartedly with TPS that you should check with other people who know him to see how far out of bounds this behavior is. I don't know what other advice to offer other than to be careful and see if you can get him to speak with a professional.
posted by Jacob G at 8:35 PM on April 5, 2012 [9 favorites]
Over the course of many days, I was a witness to what has heretofore been diagnosed (among other things) as a "Brief Reactive Psychosis, not otherwise specified" that resulted in someone's murder. There are many similarities here:
1- Habitual marijuana use stopped cold turkey.
2- Technobabble about unplugging electrical devices due to the potential influence on the brain by the electricity. (internet was not pervasive at the time)
3- Resigning oneself to a "higher power" in order to transcend.
4- Talking (uncharacteristically) a lot about love (though more in the context of nature than people in this case)
I agree whole-heartedly with TPS that you should check with other people who know him to see how far out of bounds this behavior is. I don't know what other advice to offer other than to be careful and see if you can get him to speak with a professional.
posted by Jacob G at 8:35 PM on April 5, 2012 [9 favorites]
The thing about a spiritual awakening is, when you have one, you don't go around telling everyone you've had a spiritual awakening. This sounds like typical granola plus conspiracy theory flake talk with an Indian twist thrown in for good measure.
If he acts decently going forward, then maybe you've got a convert on your hands. If at any point this twelve dimensional spiritual being starts to interfere with your day, you've either got a breakdown or just random crazy-mouth.
posted by Gilbert at 8:59 PM on April 5, 2012 [4 favorites]
If he acts decently going forward, then maybe you've got a convert on your hands. If at any point this twelve dimensional spiritual being starts to interfere with your day, you've either got a breakdown or just random crazy-mouth.
posted by Gilbert at 8:59 PM on April 5, 2012 [4 favorites]
I wasn't planning to answer this question because it's not something I know much about. But I noticed a list of 'treatments' on the Wikipedia page for "Kundalini Syndrome" which accords surprisingly well with guidelines for self care in the Western mental health model, despite being from a New-Agey source. If your friend won't engage directly with Western psychiatric care, perhaps he could be convinced that following these guidelines would be spiritually beneficial?
posted by embrangled at 9:04 PM on April 5, 2012 [12 favorites]
In Farther Shores, Yvonne Kason devotes a large part of the book to understanding and intervening in Spiritually Transformative Experiences.[83] She covers a number of factors, including who has spiritual emergencies and why.[84] Kason then offers up a number of strategies for living with spiritual transformation. Central to these is a balanced lifestyle.
The following is her 10-point Basics of a Balanced Lifestyle:
Develop and stick to a regular routine – have regular rising, bed, and meal times and set aside regular periods each week for exercise.
Get plenty of sleep and rest and set aside regular times for daily relaxation and weekly recreation.
Do not skip meals. Eat a nutritious, well-balanced diet. You don't need to deprive yourself of occasional treats, but avoid junk foods in general.
Keep the amount of stress and hectic activity to a minimum.
Communicate and share your thoughts and feelings with a supportive person daily, or as often as possible.
Keep your sex life moderate, and pay attention to your body if it seems to be telling you to cut down.
Spend time in nature; get plenty of natural daylight.
Avoid toxins and self-destructive habits such as smoking and drugs; keep alcohol consumption to a minimum.
Get regular physical exercise, at least two or three times a week.
Spend a moderate amount of time each day in meditation, prayer, and/or a spiritual practice.
posted by embrangled at 9:04 PM on April 5, 2012 [12 favorites]
The page linked by liketitanic says,
The problem remains that people experiencing extreme states usually have severe difficulty coping within the cultural confines of society. They can also get stuck in prolonged intense periods of extreme distress. They can get lost in unfamiliar realities without a road map to get home. In such instances we need to try to find out where they are, what is happening to them and give as much support and assistance as possible.
I am assuming that right now the only support that he is getting for this experience is through the internet. Maybe he would open to getting help if it was offered respectfully. (after all, he has already said that if he gets this wrong it will be seriously painful for him.) That same article suggests that transpersonal psychology can help with problems of spiritual crisis as well as identifying the difference between the two. Maybe someone else can comment on whether that might a place for you to look for someone who could help (and who your housemate might be willing to talk with)?
posted by metahawk at 9:09 PM on April 5, 2012
The problem remains that people experiencing extreme states usually have severe difficulty coping within the cultural confines of society. They can also get stuck in prolonged intense periods of extreme distress. They can get lost in unfamiliar realities without a road map to get home. In such instances we need to try to find out where they are, what is happening to them and give as much support and assistance as possible.
I am assuming that right now the only support that he is getting for this experience is through the internet. Maybe he would open to getting help if it was offered respectfully. (after all, he has already said that if he gets this wrong it will be seriously painful for him.) That same article suggests that transpersonal psychology can help with problems of spiritual crisis as well as identifying the difference between the two. Maybe someone else can comment on whether that might a place for you to look for someone who could help (and who your housemate might be willing to talk with)?
posted by metahawk at 9:09 PM on April 5, 2012
Hi there. I used to practice kundalini yoga. The only people I know who have had Kundalini Awakenings are (a) people who have practiced yoga and meditation for many years and who are in general very interested in energy and chakras and raw foods and so forth, but who are pretty hesitant to label things with big bold terms like that because they already know they're perceived as sort of woo-woo, and (b) a woman I met in the hospital, who was having a manic episode.
Sudden changes in behavior and mood may be indicative of a mental health crisis. Your best bet, in addition to following TPS's advice, is to call a hotline and ask someone who is trained to identify such crises. Here's a list of international hotline numbers. I suspect you want the one for the NHS: Health NHS direct: 0845 46 47 (local rate). Website: http://www.nhsdirect.nhs.uk/
Thanks for looking out for your friend!
posted by brina at 9:12 PM on April 5, 2012 [4 favorites]
Sudden changes in behavior and mood may be indicative of a mental health crisis. Your best bet, in addition to following TPS's advice, is to call a hotline and ask someone who is trained to identify such crises. Here's a list of international hotline numbers. I suspect you want the one for the NHS: Health NHS direct: 0845 46 47 (local rate). Website: http://www.nhsdirect.nhs.uk/
Thanks for looking out for your friend!
posted by brina at 9:12 PM on April 5, 2012 [4 favorites]
Mod note: From the OP:
cmoj - Well, yes that's the thing he seems happier than he has been in ages - but it's, I dunno, it's sort of oddly forced, like he's talking about being "joyful". He tells me that this is the best he has felt in a long time and he seems almost ecstatic.posted by taz (staff) at 9:56 PM on April 5, 2012 [1 favorite]
TPS - Yep, will do first thing in the am.
Lorin - Exactly the answer I was hoping not to hear but your advice sounds dead on. I've witnessed the "God and the Devil are playing a chess game for my soul" playing out and it's fucking terrifying. Yes, in retrospect muddying up the waters with my atheism was pointless.
Jacob G - Thanks. The thing is it's not exactly psychobabble - in the way I had witnessed it with other friends there's none of that manic edge or the intensity about it. Just a really rational conversation (albeit about weird stuff) - this is what gives me hope that he is just really confused and not completely on the edge of sanity, even if his ideas are pretty, er unconventional. I still think there is a small possibility that he has just found something he believes in and wants to pursue it. But I'm gonna err very much on the side of caution and get him to talk to someone about it.
brina - I'm hoping there's a c) guy who's a bit lost, read some shit on the internet, talking bollocks...
It seems pretty unanimous that I need to look into getting professional help here. (Obviously I need to talk to him and some friends first.) But, fuck - I really hope it's not the case I've seen so many people go through that shit. The worst thing is so has he and I know he'll be totally resistant to any kind of conventional medicine or psychiatry.
Thanks everyone. Sorry if this message has come out a bit garbled, it's nearly 6am and I'm tired and really worried.
What you've described sounds exactly like what a family member of mine experienced during a psychotic break right down to the television stuff. Please encourage your friend to seek mental health treatment and possibly notify appropriate family members. I was very thankful that my loved one's coworker let me know what was happening.
He will probably be resistant but this situation could deteriorate quickly. Your friend most likely will recover with proper treatment but the longer he goes without it, the more likely he is to have repeated episodes or not fully recover.
posted by tamitang at 10:10 PM on April 5, 2012 [3 favorites]
He will probably be resistant but this situation could deteriorate quickly. Your friend most likely will recover with proper treatment but the longer he goes without it, the more likely he is to have repeated episodes or not fully recover.
posted by tamitang at 10:10 PM on April 5, 2012 [3 favorites]
I have seen several people go through psychotic breaks and one turn violent, and every one of them took a religious bent, although they went with Chritian ideation, as well as exhibiting paranoia and irrational thought. And no, they did not all babble manically, some just expressed bizarre thought patterns in a normal tone of voice, so it took some time to realize how out of touch with reality they had become.
Your friend needs professional help now. He may not be willing to see this or seek help, but I would bet if he spoke to a genuine Hindu cleric (not sure how Hinduism is set up) they would tell him the same thing. I know some deeply religious people of various faiths, and they do not go on like this about their experiences. Your friend is pretty clearly in some kind of psychotic break and needs help and you need to be aware and keep yourself and others safe.
posted by mermayd at 4:38 AM on April 6, 2012 [1 favorite]
Your friend needs professional help now. He may not be willing to see this or seek help, but I would bet if he spoke to a genuine Hindu cleric (not sure how Hinduism is set up) they would tell him the same thing. I know some deeply religious people of various faiths, and they do not go on like this about their experiences. Your friend is pretty clearly in some kind of psychotic break and needs help and you need to be aware and keep yourself and others safe.
posted by mermayd at 4:38 AM on April 6, 2012 [1 favorite]
Well, yes that's the thing he seems happier than he has been in ages - but it's, I dunno, it's sort of oddly forced, like he's talking about being "joyful".
This is a bit of a concern for me, because unexpected, sudden jolts of happiness are often a symptom of someone who has been profoundly depressed and is about to do something drastic to "solve" it, which can be one of the signs that someone is suicidal.
What you described: Traumatic event, habitual self-medicator with a sudden cold-turkey stop, chronic illness, job loss, then this sudden happiness?
It sounds like he could use some professional help, if not for the experience he's describing to you, for everything that's been going on in his life up until now.
posted by xingcat at 5:06 AM on April 6, 2012 [3 favorites]
This is a bit of a concern for me, because unexpected, sudden jolts of happiness are often a symptom of someone who has been profoundly depressed and is about to do something drastic to "solve" it, which can be one of the signs that someone is suicidal.
What you described: Traumatic event, habitual self-medicator with a sudden cold-turkey stop, chronic illness, job loss, then this sudden happiness?
It sounds like he could use some professional help, if not for the experience he's describing to you, for everything that's been going on in his life up until now.
posted by xingcat at 5:06 AM on April 6, 2012 [3 favorites]
I agree 100% with Gilbert: the spiritually wise speak intelligently. Look at the Dalai Lama or Gandhi. They have probably experienced far more transcendental states of consciousness than your friend, yet their experiences inspire them to bring intelligent discourse (and action) into the world.
I think this type of thing runs parallel to the experiences people have while on LSD. I read once in a book about meditation that yes, meditation leads you to the same place as LSD can, but in a slower way which is meaningful in the course of your everyday life as well. The example used is that of a clogged drain. LSD will blast through the clog like dynamite, whereas meditation will make a whole in the clog, and gradually widen it. LSD can bring you to the same place, but your psyche may not be ready for it.
I had an extremely transcendent experience once while on a train traveling through the Rocky mountains, and for about a month afterwards, I was glowing with the ecstasy of it. However, that was about a year and a half ago, and since then, I have been extremely depressive, and for several months I was suicidal (I had an askme last night about being bipolar). I don't doubt there were other factors at play in my life, but I think an experience that is so extreme and also so sudden is bound to be dangerous.
I don't think your friend is necessarily psychotic, but I do think he will need help "coming down" from this high and incorporating this experience back into his everyday life. The psyche is very fragile and chaotic, and insight can come too much at a time. Your friend should enter therapy, not because he is psychotic, but because such it is a significant emotional experience.
Also your friend should practice simple mindful meditation focusing on the breath and avoid doing any more marijuana.
posted by costanza at 6:23 AM on April 6, 2012 [2 favorites]
I think this type of thing runs parallel to the experiences people have while on LSD. I read once in a book about meditation that yes, meditation leads you to the same place as LSD can, but in a slower way which is meaningful in the course of your everyday life as well. The example used is that of a clogged drain. LSD will blast through the clog like dynamite, whereas meditation will make a whole in the clog, and gradually widen it. LSD can bring you to the same place, but your psyche may not be ready for it.
I had an extremely transcendent experience once while on a train traveling through the Rocky mountains, and for about a month afterwards, I was glowing with the ecstasy of it. However, that was about a year and a half ago, and since then, I have been extremely depressive, and for several months I was suicidal (I had an askme last night about being bipolar). I don't doubt there were other factors at play in my life, but I think an experience that is so extreme and also so sudden is bound to be dangerous.
I don't think your friend is necessarily psychotic, but I do think he will need help "coming down" from this high and incorporating this experience back into his everyday life. The psyche is very fragile and chaotic, and insight can come too much at a time. Your friend should enter therapy, not because he is psychotic, but because such it is a significant emotional experience.
Also your friend should practice simple mindful meditation focusing on the breath and avoid doing any more marijuana.
posted by costanza at 6:23 AM on April 6, 2012 [2 favorites]
The question sorta sets it up as there being 2 possibilities--crazy or enlightened. The reality is that, without a traditional frame for the experience, it's going to be a mixture of the two at best. The main problem with professional help is that, in most cases, they will take the binary approach and choose "crazy."
The seeming contradiction between "TV--bad, reddit--good" is that, on reddit, he will encounter those who will take his experience seriously, while on TV, not so much.
I'm more concerned about the "psychic abilities" part, assuming the emphasis on these is his and not yours. Is this something he's looking forward to? How does he plan to use them? I ask because they aren't something sought after from a spiritual point of view. It would be like discovering that life is a game and using that knowledge only to figure out how to cheat to win better. The specificity of the 12 dimensions and the delta waves (unless he actually knows about EEGs) is also problematical if he takes these as important details.
Other things I'd worry about is if he believes his new insight makes him "special."
Does he have a job now? How is he supporting himself, or how does he plan to do so? If he's now "loving" does that mean he will stop isolating himself? What were the nature of his "bad mood swings?" Can he speak about his past (the mood swings, the pot smoking) in some kind of rational way?
posted by Obscure Reference at 6:33 AM on April 6, 2012
The seeming contradiction between "TV--bad, reddit--good" is that, on reddit, he will encounter those who will take his experience seriously, while on TV, not so much.
I'm more concerned about the "psychic abilities" part, assuming the emphasis on these is his and not yours. Is this something he's looking forward to? How does he plan to use them? I ask because they aren't something sought after from a spiritual point of view. It would be like discovering that life is a game and using that knowledge only to figure out how to cheat to win better. The specificity of the 12 dimensions and the delta waves (unless he actually knows about EEGs) is also problematical if he takes these as important details.
Other things I'd worry about is if he believes his new insight makes him "special."
Does he have a job now? How is he supporting himself, or how does he plan to do so? If he's now "loving" does that mean he will stop isolating himself? What were the nature of his "bad mood swings?" Can he speak about his past (the mood swings, the pot smoking) in some kind of rational way?
posted by Obscure Reference at 6:33 AM on April 6, 2012
Mod note: From the OP:
Other things I'd worry about is if he believes his new insight makes him "special."posted by jessamyn (staff) at 7:20 AM on April 6, 2012
He's very specifically said that he doesn't want to sound arrogant by talking about being enlightened as if he's better than everyone else. But I can't tell if that's what he's willing to say publicly but what he believes is actually different, obviously.
Does he have a job now?
Nope but he's got benefits to tick him over for now.
If he's now "loving" does that mean he will stop isolating himself?
Sort of yes, he's trying to go out, get exercise, talk to people a lot more since he's had this revelation. Beyond that though, any kind of long term changes he's hesitant about because of this process he's going through.
What were the nature of his "bad mood swings?"
Really short temper, usually on days where he has no pot.
Can he speak about his past (the mood swings, the pot smoking) in some kind of rational way?
Depends what exactly you mean by rational, he talks about forgiving himself for those things and moving on and not getting letting himself get angry. Quitting pot (and cigarettes and caffeine) sort of isn't unusual, he has always been the kind of person to treat his illness through more holistic methods, he doesn't eat wheat, sugar or chillis and is constantly trying out new diets and stuff like that.
Costanza,
I don't think your friend is necessarily psychotic, but I do think he will need help "coming down" from this high and incorporating this experience back into his everyday life. The psyche is very fragile and chaotic, and insight can come too much at a time. Your friend should enter therapy, not because he is psychotic, but because such it is a significant emotional experience.
Yeah, I think whatever this experience is, or whatever he believes this experience is, he shouldn't be going through it alone and he needs to talk to someone about it. The real question is who? But between me and our mutual friends we should be able to figure that out.
Everyone's help and point of view has been really useful, I think though that the bottom line is that he needs some kind of emotional support/therapy pretty urgently and if possible I'll try and get him to speak to his GP. Our friend who has been through psychosis is coming over later to have a chat, I spoke to him earlier and he said that a lot of this concerns him and sounds familiar to him. But he's very level headed about it and won't jump to too many conclusions, so that is at least a start.
Thanks again.
[he] is now following advice from a variety of sources online for getting through this.
If this is a genuine spiritual episode your friend shouldn't be attempting to go through it on his own. That is fraught. Almost all traditions emphasize the importance of having a human, flesh-and-blood teacher.
Convincing your friend to speak with a spiritual mentor might be easier than convincing him to speak with a psychiatrist. That person could provide some psychological ballast and, if necessary, help your friend seek psychiatric help. The trick, of course, is finding someone trustworthy and competent for your friend to speak with.
posted by alms at 7:44 AM on April 6, 2012 [2 favorites]
If this is a genuine spiritual episode your friend shouldn't be attempting to go through it on his own. That is fraught. Almost all traditions emphasize the importance of having a human, flesh-and-blood teacher.
Convincing your friend to speak with a spiritual mentor might be easier than convincing him to speak with a psychiatrist. That person could provide some psychological ballast and, if necessary, help your friend seek psychiatric help. The trick, of course, is finding someone trustworthy and competent for your friend to speak with.
posted by alms at 7:44 AM on April 6, 2012 [2 favorites]
I was starting to write something that on preview is close to what alms just said.
On the off-chance your friend does has a teacher / lama / yogi, or has had contact with one, maybe see if you can talk to that person and alert them to what's going on. If no teacher has ever been involved, then that (to me, given my experiences) makes it seem less likely there's a genuine meditation-based breakthrough happening. Meditation of any kind is amazingly hard work that you have to stick with for a long time to get dramatic results. And, wow, online sources, particularly for anything spiritual or mystical, are notoriously unreliable and crank-filled. No one should be attempting this kind of thing without a solid, trusted in-person teacher.
posted by aught at 8:06 AM on April 6, 2012
On the off-chance your friend does has a teacher / lama / yogi, or has had contact with one, maybe see if you can talk to that person and alert them to what's going on. If no teacher has ever been involved, then that (to me, given my experiences) makes it seem less likely there's a genuine meditation-based breakthrough happening. Meditation of any kind is amazingly hard work that you have to stick with for a long time to get dramatic results. And, wow, online sources, particularly for anything spiritual or mystical, are notoriously unreliable and crank-filled. No one should be attempting this kind of thing without a solid, trusted in-person teacher.
posted by aught at 8:06 AM on April 6, 2012
It's really hard to say sometimes. I've had my own sort of "spiritual enlightenment" this month. I put it in quotes because I'm an athiest and don't personally believe it was an experience of the divine. But it was pretty huge. It's hard to use anything other than religious terminology, because it's really the only way that I can convey the way it *felt* and how far reaching it was throughout my awareness.
I have friends that do kundalini yoga, and have had similar experiences. I think just about every religion describes this kind of experience in their own way. Awakening, existenctial crisis, enlightenment, being touched and transformed by the holy experience, accepting gods grace. We all have our own experience of an infinite universe.
And that's my personal understanding of my own experience. That I'm a finite being in an infinite universe. I think that in our everyday life we ramble along, comfortable in our finite state. But sometimes, usually when we're quiet and reflective, we get a glimpse of just how huge existince is, and how small we are in comparison to it. I think it's so strongly associated with religious practices (yoga, buddhist meditation, prayer, fasting) because those are the times that most people are quietly and openly reflective.
For me I was sitting on a bench outside during a work break. I was relaxing and refocusing with a basic mindfulness meditation, just trying to notice and be aware of what was happening around and inside of me. I do it just about everyday, and it's good and helpful, but not huge. I was trying to notice love in myself and the world around me. And for some reason, this one time, I noticed that vast expanse of existence. I suddenly recognized the infinate nature of the universe we live in, and how small (but how connected) I was within it.
And sometimes, when you notice how small you are in the universe, you also notice how small everyone else is too. How they are just as overwhelmed. An I that's where that experience of love, forgiveness and understanding comes from.
And while it's true that I'm not running around telling everyone about this deeply personal experience (except on metafilter, apparently), but I have been very excited to share it with a handful of my close friends. So I don't think it's too strange that he's sharing it with you.
So that basic experience he's talking about, the higher awareness and connection and love, seem normal to me. Even though he's dealing with previous trauma (I am too, and my experience hasn't threatened that, it's actually helped). It's true that these kinds of strong experiences sometimes leave sort of a spiritual hangover for some people. Like the everyday world is lacking in comparison, and that could be a problem. But try to think of the basic "awakening" as just a person noticing the infinite universe, and finding meaning in it.
All the other stuff is freaky and creepy. Like I said, I have friends who've had sort of a kundalini awakening and are normal and fine. But they retained a sense of control over their own path, even if it was the path towards a higher power, and there was no talk of psychic powers or delta waves. So paying close attention is a good idea. But maybe he's exaggerrating religious terminology that he doesn't quite understand? I'm aware that in some eastern religions someone achieving certain levels of enlightnenment might gain magic powers. I guess the western, christian equivelent would be believing in miracles? It's a pretty common belief that God can use his faithful as instruments, and work miracles through them. Maybe it's similar.
As far as not continuing this path of awakening putting him in real danger of pain and suffering, it sounds really extreme (and might be) but it could also just be a religious/mystical description of common personal dangers. A Buddhist might describe it as the pain that comes from illusion and not recognizing the true nature of existence. A Christian might describe it as the pain that comes from denying God and his good word. A humanist might describe it as the danger of not working for personal growth and understanding. In a very real way, he's in pain right now, from trauma and just getting by in life. So if he doesn't work to heal that and grow from it it will be very painful for him.
So it's possible that this is completely benign, and just him using a religious frame of reference for what he is trying to understand and accomplish. Being a 12 dimensional being isn't really any stranger than any other religious belief. The delta waves are strange, but probably not harmful in any way. He'll probably incorperate all of this intensity into his life and chill out. Maybe not, if he's generally intense and passionate.
The only way to tell if this is a benign religious experience, or a dangerous situation (being taken advantage of by his religious community, or a serious mental health event) is to pay attention and watch for danger signs. Are people asking him for money? Asking him to compromise himself, or trying to manipulate him with "god's will"? Is he putting himself in danger or unhealthy situations?
I think, either way, it's most useful for you to be very supportive of his experience until you percieve real harm and threat. Because if you attack the validity of his beliefs and awakening he'll percieve it as an attack, and a betrayal of trust. There are a lot of good resources online for supporting and helping a loved one who is being manipulated by others, or who is in serious need of mental help. You might look into some of the excellent work done about cults and helping people avoid and escape from them. He might not be involved in an actual cult, but those tools are useful in any manipulative interpersonal situation.
Good luck!
posted by f_panda at 8:15 AM on April 6, 2012 [2 favorites]
I have friends that do kundalini yoga, and have had similar experiences. I think just about every religion describes this kind of experience in their own way. Awakening, existenctial crisis, enlightenment, being touched and transformed by the holy experience, accepting gods grace. We all have our own experience of an infinite universe.
And that's my personal understanding of my own experience. That I'm a finite being in an infinite universe. I think that in our everyday life we ramble along, comfortable in our finite state. But sometimes, usually when we're quiet and reflective, we get a glimpse of just how huge existince is, and how small we are in comparison to it. I think it's so strongly associated with religious practices (yoga, buddhist meditation, prayer, fasting) because those are the times that most people are quietly and openly reflective.
For me I was sitting on a bench outside during a work break. I was relaxing and refocusing with a basic mindfulness meditation, just trying to notice and be aware of what was happening around and inside of me. I do it just about everyday, and it's good and helpful, but not huge. I was trying to notice love in myself and the world around me. And for some reason, this one time, I noticed that vast expanse of existence. I suddenly recognized the infinate nature of the universe we live in, and how small (but how connected) I was within it.
And sometimes, when you notice how small you are in the universe, you also notice how small everyone else is too. How they are just as overwhelmed. An I that's where that experience of love, forgiveness and understanding comes from.
And while it's true that I'm not running around telling everyone about this deeply personal experience (except on metafilter, apparently), but I have been very excited to share it with a handful of my close friends. So I don't think it's too strange that he's sharing it with you.
So that basic experience he's talking about, the higher awareness and connection and love, seem normal to me. Even though he's dealing with previous trauma (I am too, and my experience hasn't threatened that, it's actually helped). It's true that these kinds of strong experiences sometimes leave sort of a spiritual hangover for some people. Like the everyday world is lacking in comparison, and that could be a problem. But try to think of the basic "awakening" as just a person noticing the infinite universe, and finding meaning in it.
All the other stuff is freaky and creepy. Like I said, I have friends who've had sort of a kundalini awakening and are normal and fine. But they retained a sense of control over their own path, even if it was the path towards a higher power, and there was no talk of psychic powers or delta waves. So paying close attention is a good idea. But maybe he's exaggerrating religious terminology that he doesn't quite understand? I'm aware that in some eastern religions someone achieving certain levels of enlightnenment might gain magic powers. I guess the western, christian equivelent would be believing in miracles? It's a pretty common belief that God can use his faithful as instruments, and work miracles through them. Maybe it's similar.
As far as not continuing this path of awakening putting him in real danger of pain and suffering, it sounds really extreme (and might be) but it could also just be a religious/mystical description of common personal dangers. A Buddhist might describe it as the pain that comes from illusion and not recognizing the true nature of existence. A Christian might describe it as the pain that comes from denying God and his good word. A humanist might describe it as the danger of not working for personal growth and understanding. In a very real way, he's in pain right now, from trauma and just getting by in life. So if he doesn't work to heal that and grow from it it will be very painful for him.
So it's possible that this is completely benign, and just him using a religious frame of reference for what he is trying to understand and accomplish. Being a 12 dimensional being isn't really any stranger than any other religious belief. The delta waves are strange, but probably not harmful in any way. He'll probably incorperate all of this intensity into his life and chill out. Maybe not, if he's generally intense and passionate.
The only way to tell if this is a benign religious experience, or a dangerous situation (being taken advantage of by his religious community, or a serious mental health event) is to pay attention and watch for danger signs. Are people asking him for money? Asking him to compromise himself, or trying to manipulate him with "god's will"? Is he putting himself in danger or unhealthy situations?
I think, either way, it's most useful for you to be very supportive of his experience until you percieve real harm and threat. Because if you attack the validity of his beliefs and awakening he'll percieve it as an attack, and a betrayal of trust. There are a lot of good resources online for supporting and helping a loved one who is being manipulated by others, or who is in serious need of mental help. You might look into some of the excellent work done about cults and helping people avoid and escape from them. He might not be involved in an actual cult, but those tools are useful in any manipulative interpersonal situation.
Good luck!
posted by f_panda at 8:15 AM on April 6, 2012 [2 favorites]
Convincing your friend to speak with a spiritual mentor might be easier than convincing him to speak with a psychiatrist.
Though finding one is harder. Psychiatrists have the advantage of a licensing procedure to weed out the truly incompetent. Spiritual mentors are just what someone claims to be, and when one suddenly surrenders the usual frames of reference, one tends to become highly suggestible. I hope his vision can help him distinguish the genuine from the charlatan, and if not, that's where you come in.
posted by Obscure Reference at 8:40 AM on April 6, 2012 [1 favorite]
Though finding one is harder. Psychiatrists have the advantage of a licensing procedure to weed out the truly incompetent. Spiritual mentors are just what someone claims to be, and when one suddenly surrenders the usual frames of reference, one tends to become highly suggestible. I hope his vision can help him distinguish the genuine from the charlatan, and if not, that's where you come in.
posted by Obscure Reference at 8:40 AM on April 6, 2012 [1 favorite]
I would ask around among people I knew who were Hindu or following a spiritual yoga practice (as opposed to seeing it as an exercise practice) for recommendations of someone who's a practitioner or clergy person in that community who is grounded and reliable who would be willing to meet in person with your friend to encourage him to practice good self-care during this psychological/spiritual upheaval, whatever its cause. Crowdsourcing recommendations from a largish group usually weeds out the predators and the flakes.
If it feels feasible to you financially, offering to pay the consultation fees for that person or make a donation to their organization in recognition of the gift of their time might be a way of making sure it happens, since it sounds like your friend's finances are in disarray.
People who are honest practitioners in all spiritual traditions tend to start from a place of compassion and helpfulness, and your friend might take instruction and direction better from someone who familiar with the concepts of Kundalini than from a therapist or counselor. As embrangled's good post points out, the basic principles of self-care and concern for others are held among responsible people who parse these experiences as "spiritual awakenings," just as they are among people who parse these experiences as psychological and/or neurological breaks.
posted by Sidhedevil at 12:50 PM on April 6, 2012
If it feels feasible to you financially, offering to pay the consultation fees for that person or make a donation to their organization in recognition of the gift of their time might be a way of making sure it happens, since it sounds like your friend's finances are in disarray.
People who are honest practitioners in all spiritual traditions tend to start from a place of compassion and helpfulness, and your friend might take instruction and direction better from someone who familiar with the concepts of Kundalini than from a therapist or counselor. As embrangled's good post points out, the basic principles of self-care and concern for others are held among responsible people who parse these experiences as "spiritual awakenings," just as they are among people who parse these experiences as psychological and/or neurological breaks.
posted by Sidhedevil at 12:50 PM on April 6, 2012
What this sounds like to me - from every element, counting the marijuana use - is a hypermanic episode. I have personal experience with a very similar event (not me, but my partner at the time) and it was...intense. The valley that followed was brutal for both of us. I'd had no idea that was even a thing, but, apparently, it's very well-documented and accepted as a feature of bi-polarity accompanied by certain other imbalances.
I'm not saying that's what this is, precisely, but putting it out there that it could be, so your willingness to be supportive should be tempered with the knowledge that if this is hypermania, you may need to take more active, external steps if it swings to the counter-effect: extreme depression.
So great, though, that you were willing to entertain the full potential of this situation and want to help. Very rare.
posted by batmonkey at 12:25 AM on April 7, 2012
I'm not saying that's what this is, precisely, but putting it out there that it could be, so your willingness to be supportive should be tempered with the knowledge that if this is hypermania, you may need to take more active, external steps if it swings to the counter-effect: extreme depression.
So great, though, that you were willing to entertain the full potential of this situation and want to help. Very rare.
posted by batmonkey at 12:25 AM on April 7, 2012
Mod note: From the OP:
Thanks everyone, just thought I'd update. I had another, really long chat yesterday and I'm completely reassured. I do think it's possible that he's having a mild manic episode or something like that, but I don't think it's anything as serious as I first thought and I'm completely sure he's not a danger to himself or anyone else. I will however keep a close eye on him and check in about it regularly. I also think the sudden cold turkey on everything had just made things extra intense when I first asked the question.posted by taz (staff) at 5:40 AM on April 7, 2012
I'm never going to believe the stuff he's talking about but I do think it's more on a level of he's found something that gives him comfort and it has become a kind of self-help. He has said he's at the beginning of the KA and hasn't fully opened his mind to all of this stuff yet and will be taking it slowly. So it's like he's trying to attain this stuff rather than being fully enraptured by it. The stuff about following the higher being is more - take it easy, do what feels right rather than a little voice telling him to do stuff. He's assured me he isn't having hallucinations of any kind, apart from kind of weird rushes up his spine when he meditates (which he is taking time off from).
He's not being manipulated into this by anyone and is not joining a cult. Although it's my belief that some of his sources are conmen or idiots - but he isn't handing over any money to anyone. And it's more like he's making a cut and paste religion out of the bits he needs from all over the place. With all these things it's hard to differentiate the metaphor from the literal (when someone says god spoke to them does that mean they are hallucinating or that they have a strong gut feeling??) I'm pretty sure it's the latter rather than the former.
He's also not going around telling everyone about this, it's only me he's talked to really about it - so it's not like its the only thing on his mind.
The stuff about delta waves was more on the level that people who read the Daily Mail think wireless networks give you cancer than - "holy shit got to turn off the TV because it's invading my mind".
I've encouraged him to go to either yoga or meditation classes - because I think that if nothing else the social aspect will be a real help, being able to discuss his beliefs with people who aren't highly suspicious of supernatural beliefs. I think it could stop him staring at this Rorschach/mirror/filter-bubble that he's created for himself. I've tried to get him to talk to a therapist but I don't think it's going to happen.
So, long and the short of it is: I think he's ok, I don't think what he's doing is necessarily healthy... but I don't think it's dangerous. I do also think it might lead him to something that does help and is healthy but I will keep an eye out. Thanks again everyone.
This thread is closed to new comments.
posted by cmoj at 7:57 PM on April 5, 2012 [2 favorites]