Could cervical adjustments by a chiropractor be dangerous?
February 24, 2012 5:02 PM Subscribe
I recently went to the Chiropractor for the first time, who told me I have no curve in my neck where there should be. He adjusted me, which did hurt a little, but my question is: is there any danger to adjusting the cervical vertebrae. A coworker was telling me she had heard that you can be seriously injured, is this true?
He is a "Chiropractic physician" should I trust him not to mess me up? He has good online reviews.....
He told me I need to come back ideally 3 times a week for 4 weeks- is that an unneccessary number of visits to correct the issue (I know this is case-specific most likely, I just want to know if it sounds reasonable)?
Advice is welcome and greatly appreciated!
He is a "Chiropractic physician" should I trust him not to mess me up? He has good online reviews.....
He told me I need to come back ideally 3 times a week for 4 weeks- is that an unneccessary number of visits to correct the issue (I know this is case-specific most likely, I just want to know if it sounds reasonable)?
Advice is welcome and greatly appreciated!
"Adverse effects of spinal manipulation: a systematic review" in the Journal of the Royal Society of Medicine:posted by grouse at 5:07 PM on February 24, 2012 [2 favorites]
Forgot to link to the article: Adverse effects of spinal manipulation: a systematic review.
posted by grouse at 5:07 PM on February 24, 2012 [1 favorite]
posted by grouse at 5:07 PM on February 24, 2012 [1 favorite]
There's also danger when somebody takes a knife and removes your internal organs, but we trust surgeons to do that. Chiropractors go to school for a long time to know what they're doing.
posted by LDL707 at 5:12 PM on February 24, 2012 [7 favorites]
posted by LDL707 at 5:12 PM on February 24, 2012 [7 favorites]
I have no curve in my lumbar spine where there should be one. No amount of spinal manipulation or chiropractic adjustments could make a curve happen there. That's just not how bones work.
I also have some fairly significant spinal cord issues, and getting a cervical adjustment could be extremely dangerous for me.
Personally, I wouldn't let myself get anywhere near a chiropractor's hands, but YMMV. Proceed with caution.
posted by phunniemee at 5:14 PM on February 24, 2012 [3 favorites]
I also have some fairly significant spinal cord issues, and getting a cervical adjustment could be extremely dangerous for me.
Personally, I wouldn't let myself get anywhere near a chiropractor's hands, but YMMV. Proceed with caution.
posted by phunniemee at 5:14 PM on February 24, 2012 [3 favorites]
He told you to come back 3 times a week for 4 weeks to fix what, again? Is there a reason you went in the first place?
posted by 2N2222 at 5:15 PM on February 24, 2012
posted by 2N2222 at 5:15 PM on February 24, 2012
Anecdote: my uncle had a stroke induced by his chiropractor. The stroke was minor and he's fine now, but it only strengthened my resolve to never go to a chiropractor.
posted by deborah at 5:19 PM on February 24, 2012
posted by deborah at 5:19 PM on February 24, 2012
There's also danger when somebody takes a knife and removes your internal organs
I advise against having your internal organs removed, actually.
posted by grouse at 5:20 PM on February 24, 2012 [30 favorites]
I advise against having your internal organs removed, actually.
posted by grouse at 5:20 PM on February 24, 2012 [30 favorites]
Does your neck hurt? Your back? Is there a reason why you're going to the chiropractor in the first place?
If he is making your body feel better - that's great and that's what he should be doing. But what it seems is that he's hurting you without much improvements, I'd question that. Three times a week!?! That is a *lot*. It sounds like he's trying to milk your insurance or something.
I'd definitely question this.
posted by xtine at 5:21 PM on February 24, 2012
If he is making your body feel better - that's great and that's what he should be doing. But what it seems is that he's hurting you without much improvements, I'd question that. Three times a week!?! That is a *lot*. It sounds like he's trying to milk your insurance or something.
I'd definitely question this.
posted by xtine at 5:21 PM on February 24, 2012
Some chiropractors go to school for a long time to know what they're doing. Some have a more solid education than others, some are more skilled than others and are unlikely to injure you. The possibility for injury definitely exists, however.
posted by weston at 5:26 PM on February 24, 2012 [1 favorite]
posted by weston at 5:26 PM on February 24, 2012 [1 favorite]
There is risk in crossing the street. The issue is not only what the risk is, but what the probability of that risk occurring is as well. From someone who has had a spinal fusion and who has currently several herniated discs in my neck area, I would go if it were free or very low cost with the expectation that there will be little to no change in my issue and pain level. I would not go for 4 weeks of 3 times per week.
I am not quite clear on what he is trying to do or what is wrong that needs fixing. I think your age matters too. Half of the doctors and half of the chiropractors graduated in the bottom half of their class. There are good ones and bad ones. I am a believer in doctors, but I am biased for two reasons. One, I may be lucky, but I have yet to have an issue that a doctor has not clearly explained and/or helped address with some level of success. Two, I have 2 uncles and my best friend from grade school who are neurosurgeons who have had great success treating patients. Also, I have tried the chiropractor route and while I did not find pain relief, I did find that I was no worse off either.
My point is I think that I would not worry so much about the risk as I would try to understand what the goal is and the likelihood of that goal being reached coupled with the cost. My view is that both the risk and the reward is low with a chiropractor and that if it is more than $25 a visit, I would not go. Of course, YMMV.
posted by JohnnyGunn at 5:33 PM on February 24, 2012
I am not quite clear on what he is trying to do or what is wrong that needs fixing. I think your age matters too. Half of the doctors and half of the chiropractors graduated in the bottom half of their class. There are good ones and bad ones. I am a believer in doctors, but I am biased for two reasons. One, I may be lucky, but I have yet to have an issue that a doctor has not clearly explained and/or helped address with some level of success. Two, I have 2 uncles and my best friend from grade school who are neurosurgeons who have had great success treating patients. Also, I have tried the chiropractor route and while I did not find pain relief, I did find that I was no worse off either.
My point is I think that I would not worry so much about the risk as I would try to understand what the goal is and the likelihood of that goal being reached coupled with the cost. My view is that both the risk and the reward is low with a chiropractor and that if it is more than $25 a visit, I would not go. Of course, YMMV.
posted by JohnnyGunn at 5:33 PM on February 24, 2012
The Science-Based Medicine blog has a couple of posts on the risk of stroke from cervical manipulation. (They are generally anti-chiropractic manipulation.)
posted by Eyebrows McGee at 5:36 PM on February 24, 2012 [6 favorites]
posted by Eyebrows McGee at 5:36 PM on February 24, 2012 [6 favorites]
Note that the study that grouse posted showed that between 30-61% of all spinal manipulation chiropractic patients suffer adverse effects that are directly caused by the chiropractic treatment (i.e., not just side effects of the original problem). The risk is very much not low, though the majority (but by no means all) of those adverse effects are not life-threatening, and the evidence for long-term benefits is, at best, scant. If you can see a physical therapist instead, do.
posted by brainmouse at 5:44 PM on February 24, 2012 [7 favorites]
posted by brainmouse at 5:44 PM on February 24, 2012 [7 favorites]
What state are you in? Licensing requirements vary dramatically.
I would look up this physician online to get a sense of how legit they are, we could certainly look deeply into their practice with a name.
posted by Blasdelb at 5:45 PM on February 24, 2012
I would look up this physician online to get a sense of how legit they are, we could certainly look deeply into their practice with a name.
posted by Blasdelb at 5:45 PM on February 24, 2012
My doctor friend says the only young people he saw on the stroke service were people who had strokes due to chiropractors.
posted by thirteenkiller at 5:56 PM on February 24, 2012
posted by thirteenkiller at 5:56 PM on February 24, 2012
Response by poster: I am in Utah. I have neck pain but it isn't unbearable. Honestly, I went because it was a good deal (a groupon) and I had friends who had benefited from chiropractic so I thought "what the heck." I don't understand how it could cause a stroke- anyone know the science behind it?
posted by biograd08 at 6:01 PM on February 24, 2012
posted by biograd08 at 6:01 PM on February 24, 2012
The article I linked to says:
posted by grouse at 6:11 PM on February 24, 2012 [6 favorites]
In the majority of cases, the problem related to upper spinal manipulations including rotational movements. The patients were mostly young healthy individuals treated for benign, self-limiting conditions such as neck pain or headache. There was no clear over-representation of one sex over another. Dissection of the vertebral arteries was the most common problem; other complications included dural tear, oedema, nerve injury, disc herniation, haematoma and bone fracture. The symptoms were frequently life-threatening, though in most cases the patient made a full recovery. In the majority of cases, spinal manipulation was deemed to be the probable cause of the adverse effect.You can read about vertebral artery dissection on Wikipedia. Not fun.
posted by grouse at 6:11 PM on February 24, 2012 [6 favorites]
This article on cervical manipulation risk and stroke might help. Canadian Medical Association Journal. I know my doctor friend and my own doctor strongly advised me against cervical manipulation and so did my physiotherapist, even though her colleague does cervical manipulation. A physio locum offered to do it for me, but then explained the risk of stroke and did not convince me that the risk was worth it.
posted by Chaussette and the Pussy Cats at 6:11 PM on February 24, 2012
posted by Chaussette and the Pussy Cats at 6:11 PM on February 24, 2012
I will start by saying I am not a fan of chiropractors. Never seen one, never will, ever.
Incorrectly done spinal manipulation causes strokes by impeding blood flow. Actually, my understanding is that all strokes are due to a loss of blood supply although the reason you lose the blood supply can vary. Here's an article on the stroke risk of cervical manipulation:
http://www.quackwatch.com/01QuackeryRelatedTopics/chirostroke.html
I was in a car accident last year that gave me a cervical sprain which - I am using totally the wrong terminology here, this is how it was explained to me in plain english - made my neck/cervical spine lose the curve to it. It was due to a cervical sprain, caused a huge amount of stiffness and pain. I went through a few months of physical therapy by a therapist who had a MSPT. If you have a lot of neck pain and issues, my recommendation is to go see a well trained physical therapist, not a chiropractor.
posted by lyra4 at 6:16 PM on February 24, 2012 [3 favorites]
Incorrectly done spinal manipulation causes strokes by impeding blood flow. Actually, my understanding is that all strokes are due to a loss of blood supply although the reason you lose the blood supply can vary. Here's an article on the stroke risk of cervical manipulation:
http://www.quackwatch.com/01QuackeryRelatedTopics/chirostroke.html
I was in a car accident last year that gave me a cervical sprain which - I am using totally the wrong terminology here, this is how it was explained to me in plain english - made my neck/cervical spine lose the curve to it. It was due to a cervical sprain, caused a huge amount of stiffness and pain. I went through a few months of physical therapy by a therapist who had a MSPT. If you have a lot of neck pain and issues, my recommendation is to go see a well trained physical therapist, not a chiropractor.
posted by lyra4 at 6:16 PM on February 24, 2012 [3 favorites]
I am generally positive to neutral on chiropractors, but a groupon is the worst possible reason to visit a chiropractor. As a matter of fact I would never visit a doctor or a chiropractor of any sort that was having a sale to drum up clientele. If you want to see a chiropractor, get recommendations and interview them first. But do not pick a medical professional based on the lowest price.
Having said all that, my personally experience is that chiropody is a temporary fix at best.
posted by GuyZero at 6:36 PM on February 24, 2012 [10 favorites]
Having said all that, my personally experience is that chiropody is a temporary fix at best.
posted by GuyZero at 6:36 PM on February 24, 2012 [10 favorites]
Here is an answer from dmd to an earlier related AskMe question:
I'm a grad student in neuroscience at a major hospital. My adviser is a MD PhD neurologist. Every week, there's a morning case conference where all the neurology attendings and residents get together and present all the new cases that have come in in the past week.
Every single week with little or no exception, one of those cases is someone who died or became a paraplegic due to the actions of a chiropractor.
posted by i_am_joe's_spleen at 6:49 PM on February 24, 2012 [20 favorites]
I'm a grad student in neuroscience at a major hospital. My adviser is a MD PhD neurologist. Every week, there's a morning case conference where all the neurology attendings and residents get together and present all the new cases that have come in in the past week.
Every single week with little or no exception, one of those cases is someone who died or became a paraplegic due to the actions of a chiropractor.
posted by i_am_joe's_spleen at 6:49 PM on February 24, 2012 [20 favorites]
I don't understand how it could cause a stroke- anyone know the science behind it?
Check out where the vertebral artery runs. Manipulating your cervical vertebrae can damage or compress your artery causing injury or impeded blood flow to the brain. Ultimately you get brain ischemia (reduced blood supply) and that can precipitate a stroke.
posted by gaspode at 8:14 PM on February 24, 2012
Check out where the vertebral artery runs. Manipulating your cervical vertebrae can damage or compress your artery causing injury or impeded blood flow to the brain. Ultimately you get brain ischemia (reduced blood supply) and that can precipitate a stroke.
posted by gaspode at 8:14 PM on February 24, 2012
There's a really helpful picture at grouse's link to vertebral artery dissection on Wikipedia. You can see how the vertebral arteries (one on each side) run through little holes in your vertebrae (the neck bones) to bring blood up to the brain. Each of those bones needs to line up nicely with the next bones in line, or there is a risk to damage to those arteries. Damaging the arteries can lead to stroke, because blood clots form where arteries get damaged, and can then break off and travel into your brain.
Those vertebral arteries are the main reason that people warn against allowing a chiropractor to do any cervical manipulation. They're in sort of a delicate position, and easily damaged, with very bad consequences.
posted by vytae at 8:17 PM on February 24, 2012 [2 favorites]
Those vertebral arteries are the main reason that people warn against allowing a chiropractor to do any cervical manipulation. They're in sort of a delicate position, and easily damaged, with very bad consequences.
posted by vytae at 8:17 PM on February 24, 2012 [2 favorites]
Chiropractic manipulation is quackery. Someone can't manually "readjust" your spine to put a curve in there. Bones don't work that way.
So, while the risk involved is small, it's not worth it.
Chiropractic manipulation does have some "accidental" benefits, in that some of the physical manipulation can overlap with massage and physical therapy. But you can get those benefits directly from those practitioners, allowing you to skip the risk coming from a pseudo scientific discipline.
posted by spaltavian at 8:22 PM on February 24, 2012 [4 favorites]
So, while the risk involved is small, it's not worth it.
Chiropractic manipulation does have some "accidental" benefits, in that some of the physical manipulation can overlap with massage and physical therapy. But you can get those benefits directly from those practitioners, allowing you to skip the risk coming from a pseudo scientific discipline.
posted by spaltavian at 8:22 PM on February 24, 2012 [4 favorites]
Chiropracters vary enormously in their skill, sanity, ethics, etc.
I go to a chiropracter occasionally who has helped me a lot in temporary periods of back pain. What he does is basically back massage - not the "adjustment" of the neck etc - no woo, no homeopathy, no BS.
Conversely, I once helped with research for a malpractice trial of a chiropracter who'd convinced his patient that the patient's lumbar spine needed to be adjusted "from the inside" and went ahead and did that. Yeah.
I would never go to a chiropracter without a specific recommendation from someone whose opinion I trusted. Some random whose business is low enough that he'd do a Groupon? Never in a hundred years.
posted by fingersandtoes at 11:16 PM on February 24, 2012
I go to a chiropracter occasionally who has helped me a lot in temporary periods of back pain. What he does is basically back massage - not the "adjustment" of the neck etc - no woo, no homeopathy, no BS.
Conversely, I once helped with research for a malpractice trial of a chiropracter who'd convinced his patient that the patient's lumbar spine needed to be adjusted "from the inside" and went ahead and did that. Yeah.
I would never go to a chiropracter without a specific recommendation from someone whose opinion I trusted. Some random whose business is low enough that he'd do a Groupon? Never in a hundred years.
posted by fingersandtoes at 11:16 PM on February 24, 2012
I had some great experiences with a chiropractor. However, this chiropractor never adjusted anything near my neck and never would try to. He functioned more as a sports medicine doctor than what people traditionally think of as a chiropractor, and he was very clear on his limits. He was able to give me stretches and exercises to help an injured hip and I made a good recovery. On the other hand, when my dad had an injured shoulder this same chiropractor told my dad he had a tissue/tendon injury that should be addressed by surgery rather than him, and sent my dad home after one consultation. He was (and still is, I think) very successful and came with high recommendations from multiple sources.
Which is to say, those who insist all chiropractors are quacks are wrong. However, know your chiropractor.
posted by ohio at 12:12 AM on February 25, 2012 [4 favorites]
Which is to say, those who insist all chiropractors are quacks are wrong. However, know your chiropractor.
posted by ohio at 12:12 AM on February 25, 2012 [4 favorites]
I had cervical manipulation to treat pinched nerves and compressed discs. It helped me a lot and I only stopped when i coudn't afford it. As to number of treatments, the frequency was tapered down to one time a week after a month or so of 2-3 time a week.
Also, the best treatment I've found is from metafilter: Treat Your Own Neck Pain. It totally works, and did it more quickly than the chiropractor (and cheaper).
posted by guster4lovers at 1:01 AM on February 25, 2012
Also, the best treatment I've found is from metafilter: Treat Your Own Neck Pain. It totally works, and did it more quickly than the chiropractor (and cheaper).
posted by guster4lovers at 1:01 AM on February 25, 2012
Pure quackery is right. They don't go to school for a long time. Anyone can get into chiro school and they learn less anatomy than a nurse does these days. There is no science behind it. Run away.
posted by spitbull at 3:52 AM on February 25, 2012
posted by spitbull at 3:52 AM on February 25, 2012
It's a wacky looking website, but chirowatch actually has some really good resources, including this page listing many lawsuits against "doctors" of chiropractic for strokes and other devastating consequences of (scientifically unproven, based on a discredited 19th century theory) "cervical manipulation." It's here:
http://www.chirowatch.com/cw-cervical.html
Think about it. Somehow in an entire lifetime of going to doctors, not one ever noticed this supposed defect in your anatomy of a "neck that isn't properly curved." Look around at other people's necks. Here, google "normal cervical vertebrae xray" and click the images link that comes up first. You will see hundreds of images of necks with every sort of curvature you can imagine. It is normal anatomical variation.
Then think about a guy who calls himself "doctor" but issues Groupon coupons to drum up business, lies right to your face about a supposed anatomical deformity, and asks you to return for hundreds or thousands of dollars of completely unproven (actually, pretty much fully disproven) therapy.
This is not medicine. They should not be called "physicians."
posted by spitbull at 4:15 AM on February 25, 2012 [2 favorites]
http://www.chirowatch.com/cw-cervical.html
Think about it. Somehow in an entire lifetime of going to doctors, not one ever noticed this supposed defect in your anatomy of a "neck that isn't properly curved." Look around at other people's necks. Here, google "normal cervical vertebrae xray" and click the images link that comes up first. You will see hundreds of images of necks with every sort of curvature you can imagine. It is normal anatomical variation.
Then think about a guy who calls himself "doctor" but issues Groupon coupons to drum up business, lies right to your face about a supposed anatomical deformity, and asks you to return for hundreds or thousands of dollars of completely unproven (actually, pretty much fully disproven) therapy.
This is not medicine. They should not be called "physicians."
posted by spitbull at 4:15 AM on February 25, 2012 [2 favorites]
Oh, and the difference between the dangers of cervical manipulation (clue: if your chiro uses the word "subluxation," leave your stuff behind and get out as fast as you can) and actual surgery to "remove organs" (or whatever), besides the fact that the surgeon removing your organs was probably at the top of her college class, studied science for three years in a rigorous way before med school, and went through 5-10 years of specialized training: a surgeon cuts you open -- admittedly very dangerous even in the best hands, plenty of deaths and lawsuits -- only if there is some medically valid reason to do so and there is a clinical literature that says this is the best and safest way to treat some actual, serious condition that can actually be seen on a radiological image.
posted by spitbull at 4:19 AM on February 25, 2012 [5 favorites]
posted by spitbull at 4:19 AM on February 25, 2012 [5 favorites]
Here's the thing...Chiropractors are evaluating you against an ideal. Thing is, no one is ideal. It may well be that your supposed lack of a curve (and, honestly, that sounds like a bunch of hokum) is just the way your genes fell into place and that's the way you are built. Attempting to "remedy" the natural construction of your spine could result in serious problems.
Many members of my extended family swear by chiropractic. To me, though, it's merely the spinal version of popping your knuckles. It a nice relief when it happens, but it ain't medicine.
posted by Thorzdad at 6:38 AM on February 25, 2012
Many members of my extended family swear by chiropractic. To me, though, it's merely the spinal version of popping your knuckles. It a nice relief when it happens, but it ain't medicine.
posted by Thorzdad at 6:38 AM on February 25, 2012
Pain in your neck can be caused by so many things. A chiropractor is not where you go for a diagnosis, it's where you go for therapy AFTER you've got a clear diagnosis. I doubt anything bad would happen to you (at least, the odds are that you won't be that one patient who suffers a stroke or paralysis), but why waste your money on a "fix", when you don't even know for sure what the problem is yet?
posted by SuperSquirrel at 7:29 AM on February 25, 2012
posted by SuperSquirrel at 7:29 AM on February 25, 2012
The history of chiropractic "medicine" is rather amusing, unless you've been to see one, in which case it's just scary. As others have noted, bones aren't going to be "corrected" by manipulation. If you are suffering neck pain, you should consider massage therapy to deal with muscular issues. If you're really worried about your neck being abnormal, go see an MD.
I would seriously consider the economics of your situation. Groupon does not generally create revenue for anyone unless they see a large number of people and convert them into repeat customers. Now he tells you he needs you to come back because he noticed something that one one else in your life, including you and any professionals who've ever treated you. I'm guessing at his regular price, 3 times a week for 4 weeks? Did you hear the cash-register ring you up? I can hear it all the way over here, in California.
If you're having a bit of neck pain, consider seeing an MD if you have insurance. Otherwise, consider seeing a massage therapist who can help you with muscular pain and without involving risky adjustments.
posted by Hylas at 8:11 AM on February 25, 2012
I would seriously consider the economics of your situation. Groupon does not generally create revenue for anyone unless they see a large number of people and convert them into repeat customers. Now he tells you he needs you to come back because he noticed something that one one else in your life, including you and any professionals who've ever treated you. I'm guessing at his regular price, 3 times a week for 4 weeks? Did you hear the cash-register ring you up? I can hear it all the way over here, in California.
If you're having a bit of neck pain, consider seeing an MD if you have insurance. Otherwise, consider seeing a massage therapist who can help you with muscular pain and without involving risky adjustments.
posted by Hylas at 8:11 AM on February 25, 2012
I am a Chiropractor. I knew going into school that there would always be the haters out there, but having an overwhelmingly positive experience myself, I went to Chiropractic school and then opened my own practice.
Contrary to comments above, education is neither quick/easy or lacking in depth or substance. You need all the same college level prerequisites for Chiropractic school as for Med school, and the program itself is 4 years. My wife is an MD, and our undergraduate education and first two years of medical/chiropractic school were essentially the same. After the first two years, we focused more on manual medicine, rehab, biomechanics, sports injuries etc while they went more into pharmacology, physiology of active disease processes, managing dying patients etc.
The risk of stroke after Chiropractic adjustments has largely been debunked at this point. Though there will always be people that profess otherwise, quality research studies suggest otherwise:
http://www.cmaj.ca/content/165/7/907.full
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/18204390
Is the risk of stroke zero? No it is not. Best estimates at this point are 1 in 500,000 manipulations or fewer. There are many many other risky things that people routinely do that also put the neck in a similar position, and are documented in causing VBA or stroke (star gazing, head in the hairdressers sink washing hair, etc). In other branches of medicine, things with complication of around 1 in 1000 are considered "safe".
Take a product like Tylenol for example. It is linked to thousands of cases of liver failure per year, yet it is on the market and considered safe. And if taken properly, it is safe. I take it myself from time to time. Another great example of a hot topic is immunizations: are they safe, do they cause autisim in children? Difficult to say. Both sides claim to have great research to support their position. Bottom line - immunizations save millions of people, but may harm or kill hundreds or thousands per year. IMO they are necessary and useful. I am up to date on all my immunizations, and my 3 year old son is up to date as well.
Every profession has its haters be it car mechanics, lawyers, politicians. Everybody has their reasons. There are good people and bad apples in every profession.
For the question at hand, I think that finding a Chiropractor through Groupon is not a good idea. It is specifically not allowed by the board of chiropractic examiners here in Oregon.
The treatment plan suggested (3x/wk for 4 weeks) sounds like the person is practicing Pettibon Technique, or possibly Chiropractic Biophysicis. Both of those techniques use X-rays as part of the diagnosis to look at the curve of the spine, and recommend treatment based on that. Some people get good results with these techniques. I am not personally a fan of these techniques.
I would suggest that you get a second opinion from another healthcare provider on your condition. I think that if you go to an MD, as others have suggested above, you will probably get a non-helpful diagnosis and treatment (e.g. x-rays that show the same things as the Chiropractic x-rays, and recommendation of rest and medicine). I would be surprised if the MD even touched/examined your neck as part of the process. they certainly wouldn't provide any hands on treatment.
If you want to find another Chiropractor, I would try talking to a few of your friends, doing a search on google to look for people with good reviews, etc. Professionally, there are certain practice styles that tend to attract people with a more well rounded approach (e.g. not just adjustments, but soft-tissue work, rehab, home care instructions). One of the best examples would be people who practice Active Release Technique (I myself practice this technique, full disclosure).
I have patients that request to not have any neck adjustments done, a request that I always honor. Anybody that does not want their neck adjusted should simply not allow the procedure to be done. Neck manipulation - for many Chiropractors - is a small part of the range of treatment provided at the office, and one should not throw out an entire profession for one small part of the total treatments available.
posted by walmerhoz at 9:41 AM on February 25, 2012 [4 favorites]
Contrary to comments above, education is neither quick/easy or lacking in depth or substance. You need all the same college level prerequisites for Chiropractic school as for Med school, and the program itself is 4 years. My wife is an MD, and our undergraduate education and first two years of medical/chiropractic school were essentially the same. After the first two years, we focused more on manual medicine, rehab, biomechanics, sports injuries etc while they went more into pharmacology, physiology of active disease processes, managing dying patients etc.
The risk of stroke after Chiropractic adjustments has largely been debunked at this point. Though there will always be people that profess otherwise, quality research studies suggest otherwise:
http://www.cmaj.ca/content/165/7/907.full
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/18204390
Is the risk of stroke zero? No it is not. Best estimates at this point are 1 in 500,000 manipulations or fewer. There are many many other risky things that people routinely do that also put the neck in a similar position, and are documented in causing VBA or stroke (star gazing, head in the hairdressers sink washing hair, etc). In other branches of medicine, things with complication of around 1 in 1000 are considered "safe".
Take a product like Tylenol for example. It is linked to thousands of cases of liver failure per year, yet it is on the market and considered safe. And if taken properly, it is safe. I take it myself from time to time. Another great example of a hot topic is immunizations: are they safe, do they cause autisim in children? Difficult to say. Both sides claim to have great research to support their position. Bottom line - immunizations save millions of people, but may harm or kill hundreds or thousands per year. IMO they are necessary and useful. I am up to date on all my immunizations, and my 3 year old son is up to date as well.
Every profession has its haters be it car mechanics, lawyers, politicians. Everybody has their reasons. There are good people and bad apples in every profession.
For the question at hand, I think that finding a Chiropractor through Groupon is not a good idea. It is specifically not allowed by the board of chiropractic examiners here in Oregon.
The treatment plan suggested (3x/wk for 4 weeks) sounds like the person is practicing Pettibon Technique, or possibly Chiropractic Biophysicis. Both of those techniques use X-rays as part of the diagnosis to look at the curve of the spine, and recommend treatment based on that. Some people get good results with these techniques. I am not personally a fan of these techniques.
I would suggest that you get a second opinion from another healthcare provider on your condition. I think that if you go to an MD, as others have suggested above, you will probably get a non-helpful diagnosis and treatment (e.g. x-rays that show the same things as the Chiropractic x-rays, and recommendation of rest and medicine). I would be surprised if the MD even touched/examined your neck as part of the process. they certainly wouldn't provide any hands on treatment.
If you want to find another Chiropractor, I would try talking to a few of your friends, doing a search on google to look for people with good reviews, etc. Professionally, there are certain practice styles that tend to attract people with a more well rounded approach (e.g. not just adjustments, but soft-tissue work, rehab, home care instructions). One of the best examples would be people who practice Active Release Technique (I myself practice this technique, full disclosure).
I have patients that request to not have any neck adjustments done, a request that I always honor. Anybody that does not want their neck adjusted should simply not allow the procedure to be done. Neck manipulation - for many Chiropractors - is a small part of the range of treatment provided at the office, and one should not throw out an entire profession for one small part of the total treatments available.
posted by walmerhoz at 9:41 AM on February 25, 2012 [4 favorites]
Walmerhoz
At the risk of a derail the original study linking vaccines to autism is a fraud and should not be propagated. The doctor in question has been stripped of his medical license. Please do not ever suggest that vaccines cause autism as they simply do not. Even suggesting it causes worrisome know nothing parents thinking they are doing the best for their child and have them not get a vaccine. You can continue all of you other regulating chi flows with spinal manipulation.
Spot on though with p-aminioacetophenol causing liver toxicity, it probably wouldn't be passed by the FDA if it were a new drug.
posted by koolkat at 10:02 AM on February 25, 2012 [9 favorites]
At the risk of a derail the original study linking vaccines to autism is a fraud and should not be propagated. The doctor in question has been stripped of his medical license. Please do not ever suggest that vaccines cause autism as they simply do not. Even suggesting it causes worrisome know nothing parents thinking they are doing the best for their child and have them not get a vaccine. You can continue all of you other regulating chi flows with spinal manipulation.
Spot on though with p-aminioacetophenol causing liver toxicity, it probably wouldn't be passed by the FDA if it were a new drug.
posted by koolkat at 10:02 AM on February 25, 2012 [9 favorites]
One way to think about this is how much malpractice insurance premiums are for a chiropractor compared to other doctors. For a chiropractor, it costs about the same amount to pay malpractice premiums as it does to insure a car for a year. For other doctors it's in the tens of thousands. In short, chiropractors are unlikely to hurt you.
I don't think this is necessarily true. That medical malpractice insurance is higher than chiropractic malpractice insurance probably shows that it is more likely that physicians might be sued than chiropractors might be sued. And the fact that someone has brought a suit against a particular practitioner doesn't prove anything about the quality of care.
posted by ocherdraco at 12:27 PM on February 25, 2012 [3 favorites]
I don't think this is necessarily true. That medical malpractice insurance is higher than chiropractic malpractice insurance probably shows that it is more likely that physicians might be sued than chiropractors might be sued. And the fact that someone has brought a suit against a particular practitioner doesn't prove anything about the quality of care.
posted by ocherdraco at 12:27 PM on February 25, 2012 [3 favorites]
You need all the same college level prerequisites for Chiropractic school as for Med school, and the program itself is 4 years.
And as several studies have shown, you do not need to excel at those prerequisites. Frank truth, call me a hater if you want, but most people who go to chiropractic colleges would never, ever have gotten into straight med school.
posted by spitbull at 6:06 AM on February 27, 2012 [4 favorites]
And as several studies have shown, you do not need to excel at those prerequisites. Frank truth, call me a hater if you want, but most people who go to chiropractic colleges would never, ever have gotten into straight med school.
posted by spitbull at 6:06 AM on February 27, 2012 [4 favorites]
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