My DSL connection drops constantly.
February 3, 2012 8:17 PM Subscribe
My DSL connection drops constantly. Please help me diagnose the problem before I throw the works out the window.
I've had Sonic.net DSL for almost a year and AT&T DSL for a year before that. I've had problems with the connection dropping almost the entire time and I've finally had enough.
Usually, the connection is solid for several hours during the day. Sometimes, the connection is good for a couple minutes then it disconnects, and that will happen all day long. If I'm very lucky, the connection is solid for about four days.
(My less-than-scientific method for determining the connection status is watching the Upload graph in uTorrent's Speed tab. I'm seeding a popular torrent and when the connection is good it's at the 10 kB/s max I've set for the file. I also know the connection drops because the Internet light on the modem turns off, I can't surf, Netflix streaming dies, FaceTime disconnects, etc.)
I'm using an Actiontec GT701D modem and an Apple Airport Extreme Router. I have also used a Netgear WNR3500L (as part of the Sam Knows broadband reporting) and a loaner modem (can't recall the brand) that Sonic sent to see if the Actiontec was the problem. I've had the same connection problem with any combination of these four devices. I'm on an all-Mac network.
I've called Sonic's support three times and have done the following based on their suggestions:
So what else can I try? Please hope me!
I've had Sonic.net DSL for almost a year and AT&T DSL for a year before that. I've had problems with the connection dropping almost the entire time and I've finally had enough.
Usually, the connection is solid for several hours during the day. Sometimes, the connection is good for a couple minutes then it disconnects, and that will happen all day long. If I'm very lucky, the connection is solid for about four days.
(My less-than-scientific method for determining the connection status is watching the Upload graph in uTorrent's Speed tab. I'm seeding a popular torrent and when the connection is good it's at the 10 kB/s max I've set for the file. I also know the connection drops because the Internet light on the modem turns off, I can't surf, Netflix streaming dies, FaceTime disconnects, etc.)
I'm using an Actiontec GT701D modem and an Apple Airport Extreme Router. I have also used a Netgear WNR3500L (as part of the Sam Knows broadband reporting) and a loaner modem (can't recall the brand) that Sonic sent to see if the Actiontec was the problem. I've had the same connection problem with any combination of these four devices. I'm on an all-Mac network.
I've called Sonic's support three times and have done the following based on their suggestions:
- Plugged the modem into the test jack where the phone line comes to the house. The tech said the signal/noise was good.
- Made sure there were no flickering halogen or fluorescent lights nearby.
- Unplugged the devices from the power strip and plugged them directly into the outlet.
- Tried different RJ11 cables and DSL filters/splitters.
- Unplugged the only telephone we have so only the modem was on the line.
- Tried both working phone jacks in the house, with and without the phone plugged in.
- Made sure no power cords were not touching the RJ11 cable.
So what else can I try? Please hope me!
You don't mention how many computers are using the network. Is it possible that a different computer is also running bittorrent, or something else?
It looks like that Netgear allows you to install the Tomato firmware, so do that and turn on QoS. If it doesn't fix it, at least it'll let you see some readouts for bandwidth and connections that might provide further clues.
posted by alexei at 9:25 PM on February 3, 2012
It looks like that Netgear allows you to install the Tomato firmware, so do that and turn on QoS. If it doesn't fix it, at least it'll let you see some readouts for bandwidth and connections that might provide further clues.
posted by alexei at 9:25 PM on February 3, 2012
What speed DSL connection do you have? For a test, have them change the account and drop the speed to a lower speed connection (cheaper price too). DSL phone co. lines are flaky.
posted by caclwmr4 at 9:29 PM on February 3, 2012
posted by caclwmr4 at 9:29 PM on February 3, 2012
"I also know the connection drops because the Internet light on the modem turns off"
This suggests a modem or line problem and, as you've otherwise correctly deduced, pretty much eliminates everything else as the source of your problems.
What are the modem & line stats (e.g configured mode, negotiated mode, SNR margins, attenuation, reported line speed, near & far end CRC & FEC errors)? I'm not familiar with that specific model, but on most Actiontec modems those details are at the bottom of the "Broadband Status" page under the "Status" menu.
posted by Pinback at 10:15 PM on February 3, 2012
This suggests a modem or line problem and, as you've otherwise correctly deduced, pretty much eliminates everything else as the source of your problems.
What are the modem & line stats (e.g configured mode, negotiated mode, SNR margins, attenuation, reported line speed, near & far end CRC & FEC errors)? I'm not familiar with that specific model, but on most Actiontec modems those details are at the bottom of the "Broadband Status" page under the "Status" menu.
posted by Pinback at 10:15 PM on February 3, 2012
I've just started learning about all of the issues with DSL, but from my reading so far I suspect that if the Sonic.net folks didn't find anything when you plugged in to the test jack at the side of the house, then the problem is between there and your modem. And if the light on the modem is dying, it's either the modem, which you've eliminate by substitution, or a problem with the connection between the modem and upstream hardware.
I'm running through my late Friday night from memory of a few hours of cramming by reading docs on one of the DSL analysis systems of things that they can look for and might be able to see and if they're not seeing it, it's because it's intermittent. If it's intermittent, it's probably not a break between your outside box and the CO, because things like cracks in the wire show up as other things (like degradation at various frequencies) and they'd just ask AT&T to roll a truck and give you a new pair.
So: If I were at my wit's end like this, I'd run a new wire in from the box on the side of the house. Make sure that it goes from there to your modem in one continuous run, has no additional branches, and that you have one phone, plugged in to the DSL filter at that socket. Make sure that the wire is clean before you tighten down those outside screws on it, and really tighten those suckers down.
If you have to convince yourself that this is a good idea, go buy a length of Cat3 wire and a jack and just drape it in a window. Leave it dangling for a while, and run your DSL modem and make sure that the failure still happens. If it does still fail, call back Sonic, tell them this, and ask them what it would take to get a new pair from AT&T. If it doesn't, it's an in-house wiring problem, and you should run the wire fresh.
Also, more details about the DSL: How many feet from the CO (or the whatever-the-other-thing that I can't remember the acronym for right now that Sonic doesn't have their own hardware in and has to rely on AT&T for) are you? What details have you heard from the Sonic tech? I'm assuming you've been escalated to the DSL specialists and aren't just talking to the first-line tech support folks.
posted by straw at 10:41 PM on February 3, 2012
I'm running through my late Friday night from memory of a few hours of cramming by reading docs on one of the DSL analysis systems of things that they can look for and might be able to see and if they're not seeing it, it's because it's intermittent. If it's intermittent, it's probably not a break between your outside box and the CO, because things like cracks in the wire show up as other things (like degradation at various frequencies) and they'd just ask AT&T to roll a truck and give you a new pair.
So: If I were at my wit's end like this, I'd run a new wire in from the box on the side of the house. Make sure that it goes from there to your modem in one continuous run, has no additional branches, and that you have one phone, plugged in to the DSL filter at that socket. Make sure that the wire is clean before you tighten down those outside screws on it, and really tighten those suckers down.
If you have to convince yourself that this is a good idea, go buy a length of Cat3 wire and a jack and just drape it in a window. Leave it dangling for a while, and run your DSL modem and make sure that the failure still happens. If it does still fail, call back Sonic, tell them this, and ask them what it would take to get a new pair from AT&T. If it doesn't, it's an in-house wiring problem, and you should run the wire fresh.
Also, more details about the DSL: How many feet from the CO (or the whatever-the-other-thing that I can't remember the acronym for right now that Sonic doesn't have their own hardware in and has to rely on AT&T for) are you? What details have you heard from the Sonic tech? I'm assuming you've been escalated to the DSL specialists and aren't just talking to the first-line tech support folks.
posted by straw at 10:41 PM on February 3, 2012
I've had a couple intermittent DSL problems in the past 14 years.
The first one was caused by a slight break in the line to my building. When it rained enough, it would short and my connection would go to shit. The phone company had to replace the entire line between the pole and the building to find the crack in the insulation - it took a few phone calls to make that happen because its a pain in the ass.
The last time we had a squirrel build a nest inside the phone box on top of the pole. When it would rain, he'd climb inside and my connection would go to shit. Again, it took a few phone calls, because it was a intermittent problem, but once they got a guy up the pole, they saw the problem. They replaced the box and all was good again.
Point is, this sounds like a line issue.
I would start with checking the premises cabling very closely and replacing or reseating where it seems even a bit necessary; Alternatively, you can eliminate the premises cabling by connecting at the demarc point outside - but that may be inconvienient.
Anyway, once you've established that the problem is not in the house, your best bet is to call them when it is happening. If you can figure out what makes it happen, your chances get much better.
Intermittent problems are the worst to resolve, but on the plus side, they are usually pretty simple once you find the source. Good luck.
posted by Pogo_Fuzzybutt at 10:55 PM on February 3, 2012
The first one was caused by a slight break in the line to my building. When it rained enough, it would short and my connection would go to shit. The phone company had to replace the entire line between the pole and the building to find the crack in the insulation - it took a few phone calls to make that happen because its a pain in the ass.
The last time we had a squirrel build a nest inside the phone box on top of the pole. When it would rain, he'd climb inside and my connection would go to shit. Again, it took a few phone calls, because it was a intermittent problem, but once they got a guy up the pole, they saw the problem. They replaced the box and all was good again.
Point is, this sounds like a line issue.
I would start with checking the premises cabling very closely and replacing or reseating where it seems even a bit necessary; Alternatively, you can eliminate the premises cabling by connecting at the demarc point outside - but that may be inconvienient.
Anyway, once you've established that the problem is not in the house, your best bet is to call them when it is happening. If you can figure out what makes it happen, your chances get much better.
Intermittent problems are the worst to resolve, but on the plus side, they are usually pretty simple once you find the source. Good luck.
posted by Pogo_Fuzzybutt at 10:55 PM on February 3, 2012
You've had this problem for years and only called Sonic three times? Call them again.
This looks like a line issue and if you work with them they will do everything they can to fix it (which in this case may mean getting the non-Sonic telco copper provider off their ass). They may wind up putting you in a different wire pair, or looking at the DSLAM at the central office (the hardware on the other end of the copper line that your DSL model talks to).
Give them another call. And another. Let them work on this problem for you.
posted by zippy at 11:22 PM on February 3, 2012
This looks like a line issue and if you work with them they will do everything they can to fix it (which in this case may mean getting the non-Sonic telco copper provider off their ass). They may wind up putting you in a different wire pair, or looking at the DSLAM at the central office (the hardware on the other end of the copper line that your DSL model talks to).
Give them another call. And another. Let them work on this problem for you.
posted by zippy at 11:22 PM on February 3, 2012
Yeah, keep in mind that Sonic is leasing everything past the CO and they depend on AT&T (or whoever) to support that. Keep calling them.
And to make their lives easier, please remove everything out of the equation that isn't their gear. Just hook up a laptop directly to their modem and see if it still breaks -- ideally while looking at the web interface of the modem so you can see exactly what's happening.
They will eventually fix this.
Also, escalate it to a manager just to get some visibility on it.
posted by empath at 12:07 AM on February 4, 2012
And to make their lives easier, please remove everything out of the equation that isn't their gear. Just hook up a laptop directly to their modem and see if it still breaks -- ideally while looking at the web interface of the modem so you can see exactly what's happening.
They will eventually fix this.
Also, escalate it to a manager just to get some visibility on it.
posted by empath at 12:07 AM on February 4, 2012
I recently solved a persistent DSL problem which had been bugging me for years. It turned out that the wire coming in off the street had been rubbing against a tree branch, and over the years it had worn through the insulation.
The problem first appeared as having to reset the modem once per month because the DSL light was out. Then gradually it increased to losing DSL whenever it rained heavily. This should have been a tipoff, but because the phone still worked perfectly, I always assumed it was some upstream problem ( microwave link? flooded manhole? ). Eventually the phone line gradually began filling with static culminating in a complete loss of a dial tone.
It took the phone company three visits to get to the bottom of it. First they replaced the block where the phone line entered the building and everything seemed fine for about an hour until the problem returned. Then they replaced whatever connection existed on the other end of the wire at the local junction box and again, that seemed to fix it, but the problem quickly returned. On the third visit, the technician was so desperate, he decided to replace the entire wire and only then did he he found the three inch long gash with exposed copper that had been the cause of everything.
posted by RonButNotStupid at 6:44 AM on February 4, 2012
The problem first appeared as having to reset the modem once per month because the DSL light was out. Then gradually it increased to losing DSL whenever it rained heavily. This should have been a tipoff, but because the phone still worked perfectly, I always assumed it was some upstream problem ( microwave link? flooded manhole? ). Eventually the phone line gradually began filling with static culminating in a complete loss of a dial tone.
It took the phone company three visits to get to the bottom of it. First they replaced the block where the phone line entered the building and everything seemed fine for about an hour until the problem returned. Then they replaced whatever connection existed on the other end of the wire at the local junction box and again, that seemed to fix it, but the problem quickly returned. On the third visit, the technician was so desperate, he decided to replace the entire wire and only then did he he found the three inch long gash with exposed copper that had been the cause of everything.
posted by RonButNotStupid at 6:44 AM on February 4, 2012
I have sonic.net too and I had this exact same problem. Only in my case, the solution was simple (if regrettable). I called their fantastic tech support and they said "oh yes, the logs show you have a line quality problem. we need to degrade your speed". They cut me from 12Mbps to 6Mbps and my connection has been entirely solid ever since.
You say the Internet light turns off on your modem? Then it's almost certainly not your router or your LAN; the link to your DSL provider is failing. They are the only ones who can diagnose and fix that. Sonic.net typically has excellent customer support, I'm sorry to hear they're failing you.
One thing you could do to measure the problem a little better; leave a ping running all night. Here's how to do that via the Mac Terminal shell.
posted by Nelson at 8:55 AM on February 4, 2012 [1 favorite]
You say the Internet light turns off on your modem? Then it's almost certainly not your router or your LAN; the link to your DSL provider is failing. They are the only ones who can diagnose and fix that. Sonic.net typically has excellent customer support, I'm sorry to hear they're failing you.
One thing you could do to measure the problem a little better; leave a ping running all night. Here's how to do that via the Mac Terminal shell.
- Find your upstream address by doing "traceroute www.metafilter.com" and looking at hop #2. It should be something like "70-36-128-1.dsl.dynamic.sonic.net (70.36.128.1)".
- Leave a ping running for a few hours, with a log: "ping 70.36.128.1 | tee /tmp/ping.txt"
- Either visually inspect the errors, or filter the log later via "grep -v bytes /tmp/ping.txt" You should have no packet loss if your network is working right and isn't overloaded. A couple of "Request timeout" may be OK, but not a lot.
- If you're feeling fancy, try "cut -c -14' /tmp/ping.txt | sort | uniq -c" to quickly count up the various response types. You should almost entirely see "64 bytes from"; other responses are errors.
posted by Nelson at 8:55 AM on February 4, 2012 [1 favorite]
Response by poster: Thanks for the responses so far, everyone
The last time I spoke with Sonic support (and it's always been tier 1 support) they said if their latest suggestion (making sure the phone cord isn't touching a power cord) didn't work then the next step would be to call AT&T, who would charge me $65 just to knock on my door.
I'll try plugging directly in to the year jack outside and see how long the connection lasts. Thank, Nelson, for the connection diagnosing tips.
I'll report back a soon as I can. Thanks again
posted by DakotaPaul at 10:57 AM on February 4, 2012
The last time I spoke with Sonic support (and it's always been tier 1 support) they said if their latest suggestion (making sure the phone cord isn't touching a power cord) didn't work then the next step would be to call AT&T, who would charge me $65 just to knock on my door.
I'll try plugging directly in to the year jack outside and see how long the connection lasts. Thank, Nelson, for the connection diagnosing tips.
I'll report back a soon as I can. Thanks again
posted by DakotaPaul at 10:57 AM on February 4, 2012
That's bullshit. AT&T only can charge when their equipment is not at fault, and they charge sonic, not you. Ask to talk to a supervisor if they tell you that again.
That was why, btw, I said to take anything that belongs to you out of the equation.
posted by empath at 11:00 AM on February 4, 2012
That was why, btw, I said to take anything that belongs to you out of the equation.
posted by empath at 11:00 AM on February 4, 2012
The last time I spoke with Sonic support (and it's always been tier 1 support) they said if their latest suggestion (making sure the phone cord isn't touching a power cord) didn't work then the next step would be to call AT&T, who would charge me $65 just to knock on my door.
In my experience in California, this charge is only if AT+T finds that the fault lies with your inside wiring, and not their outside wiring. Consider this - you've had bad DSL for years, and you might maybe possibly have to spend $65 to identify the problem. But probably not. This cost, spread out over, say, five years of trouble, works out to a buck a month.
Since you've eliminated all the options for inside wiring being the issue above, by connecting your modem directly to the network interface test jack, and it persists, the problem is either: a) with AT+T's wiring, b) Sonic's central office equipment, c) your DSL modem, d) your own network setup.
AT+T working with Sonic can identify what this is. (d), the only case where you're out $65, is ruled out by the modem's internet light being off. (b) and (c) are unlikely because you had this problem with a previous DSL provider, who (I am assuming) had a different modem and most likely different central office equipment (if you're on Sonic's Fusion program, you're using different central office equipment, if you're using their legacy DSL-only DSL, and your previous provider was AT+T, then it's possible you're on the same central office equipent).
(d) is effectively ruled out, so call Sonic back to work through this. If you get an unsatisfactory response, post to sonic.net's forums and odds are you will get a response from their CEO, Dane, who started the company and I believe is a networking guy.
posted by zippy at 12:29 PM on February 5, 2012 [1 favorite]
In my experience in California, this charge is only if AT+T finds that the fault lies with your inside wiring, and not their outside wiring. Consider this - you've had bad DSL for years, and you might maybe possibly have to spend $65 to identify the problem. But probably not. This cost, spread out over, say, five years of trouble, works out to a buck a month.
Since you've eliminated all the options for inside wiring being the issue above, by connecting your modem directly to the network interface test jack, and it persists, the problem is either: a) with AT+T's wiring, b) Sonic's central office equipment, c) your DSL modem, d) your own network setup.
AT+T working with Sonic can identify what this is. (d), the only case where you're out $65, is ruled out by the modem's internet light being off. (b) and (c) are unlikely because you had this problem with a previous DSL provider, who (I am assuming) had a different modem and most likely different central office equipment (if you're on Sonic's Fusion program, you're using different central office equipment, if you're using their legacy DSL-only DSL, and your previous provider was AT+T, then it's possible you're on the same central office equipent).
(d) is effectively ruled out, so call Sonic back to work through this. If you get an unsatisfactory response, post to sonic.net's forums and odds are you will get a response from their CEO, Dane, who started the company and I believe is a networking guy.
posted by zippy at 12:29 PM on February 5, 2012 [1 favorite]
Response by poster: Well, crap. I plugged the phone cord into the test jack outside the house, connected the modem and router, and ran Nelson's ping for more than a day. It appears that everything looks OK.
I know nothing of wiring, so the best I can do is check the connections at the phone jacks. I'll call AT&T, and hopefully this won't cost me too much. Thanks to all for the help.
posted by DakotaPaul at 5:45 PM on February 6, 2012
I know nothing of wiring, so the best I can do is check the connections at the phone jacks. I'll call AT&T, and hopefully this won't cost me too much. Thanks to all for the help.
posted by DakotaPaul at 5:45 PM on February 6, 2012
Thanks for posting the ping log! I'm not so sure everything's OK. You had 47672 successful pings and 3466 request timeouts. That's about 7% packet loss. That's really not good; under normal circumstances you should have well under 1%. (Unless you were saturating the link all day with downloads / BitTorrent / whatever; that can cause packet loss). It's also notable that your packet loss is pretty random, it's not clustered much although there is one longer outage around icmp_seq=40650.
You could call sonic.net back and say "I ran a ping all day and had 7% packet loss" and they should understand what that means.
posted by Nelson at 7:03 PM on February 6, 2012
You could call sonic.net back and say "I ran a ping all day and had 7% packet loss" and they should understand what that means.
posted by Nelson at 7:03 PM on February 6, 2012
what Nelson said. you shouldn't see that many dropped packets on a good line unless you're saturating your upload capacity (torrents or big uploads). Something is up. Telling Sonic you had 7% packet loss after running ping should help them.
posted by zippy at 9:03 PM on February 6, 2012
posted by zippy at 9:03 PM on February 6, 2012
Response by poster: Ah, thanks for reviewing the log. To my untrained eye, it didn't look so bad. I'll definitely let them know.
posted by DakotaPaul at 2:39 AM on February 7, 2012
posted by DakotaPaul at 2:39 AM on February 7, 2012
Response by poster: Update for posterity: Called Sonic back, and the tech said she'd turn on interleaving. Left a ping running for a couple days and there was no change. They called me back and said they'd dispatch AT&T to check out the box. Whatever they did worked: my last 36-hour ping session had only 0.1% of the requests timing out and a response time of one quarter what it was before. I opened the box outside the house and they did replace some components (no idea what).
I'm a happy surfer again. Thanks to all for the responses!
posted by DakotaPaul at 1:16 PM on February 17, 2012 [1 favorite]
I'm a happy surfer again. Thanks to all for the responses!
posted by DakotaPaul at 1:16 PM on February 17, 2012 [1 favorite]
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posted by DakotaPaul at 8:20 PM on February 3, 2012