Confused and Sickened

November 30, 2011 10:27 AM

Confused...not sure how to feel or what to think about recent news of a pedophile who worked at my children's daycare years ago.

I just found out, as it has made the local news, that a man who worked at the daycare/school that my 2 daughters attended as toddlers years ago, has been arrested for downloading child pornography and they suspect he may have also molested children in the past. My twin daughters attended this school from about 1 1/2 to about 3 years of age. They are almost 11 now. I remember that when I would arrive to pick up my girls at the end of the day, this guy (the one arrested) would be one of the workers watching the kids. I don't have any reason to believe that they were molested. And I think it would be crazy to ask them anything about it, as they probably would not even remember if something did happen since they were so young. But what I keep thinking about is whether this s.o.b. took any pictures of my precious little girls. I don't know if this guy's interest is boys or girls or both and he was only arrested for downloading pic's...but how do I know he didn't take pictures himself to distribute? And do I really want to know if there are pic's of them? After all, he has been arrested and the police are working the case and hopefully getting those pic's off the net. But I don't know much about how this works...could it help the case if kids in the pic's were identified? The news story says to call the police if you have reason to believe someone you know was a victim. I know I could call them and ask these questions, but I don't want to sound stupid, so I thought I'd ask here first for your opinions.

posted by daydreamer to Law & Government (25 answers total)

I'm sorry you're so unsettled right now.

I suspect that the police are getting a lot of similar calls from a lot of parents right now, so I don't think they'd find you stupid. If you are looking for a script, I'd try framing your call as a fact-finding mission: "so my situation is [blah], do you think I have cause for concern, or no?" All they could say is either "no," which means you're fine, or "possibly," which means that they'd be opening a case.

But no, I wouldn't be concerned about "sounding stupid" in such a case at all. They're probably getting a lot of other similar calls right now.
posted by EmpressCallipygos at 10:34 AM on November 30, 2011 [2 favorites]

Call the police, and ask your children if anything happened. At their age, they are almost certainly aware that child molesters exist, so there probably won't be a whole backstory explanation you need to get into -- just "a guy who used to work at your daycare was just arrested for downloading inappropriate pictures of children. It's very unlikely that he did anything untoward while he was at work, but if there's anything weird you remember, I'm all ears."

The police are totally willing and able to help you with things like this. One of the tenors in my church choir was arrested two years ago for actually driving to Colorado to meet what he thought was a 6-year-old girl and her willing mother -- this is a guy who played peek-a-boo with my 4-year-old at coffee hour EVERY DAY. The police were very reassuring that they thought it was really unlikely that he had ever harmed a child, particularly not a local one, and if they thought I was being stupid, they certainly hid it well.
posted by KathrynT at 10:43 AM on November 30, 2011

This sounds quite frightening. Personally, in your situation my top priority would be to find out if my children had been sexually abused so that I could help them with that (get them therapy, for example). I can see why you would be focused on the possibility of pictures, because it's such a creepy possibility and pictures can basically circulate forever...but really if your daughters have been sexually abused that's a much bigger deal for them to have experienced. I'm not sure why you think they wouldn't remember; even now in my 30s I have vivid memories of violent experiences I had when 2-3 years old. As an 11 year old I probably would have remembered things even more clearly. Have you had a general talk with your kids about sexual abuse? Do they know to come to you if someone tries to touch them inappropriately? If you're uncomfortable talking about this with your kids you could probably find a therapist who could help you have the conversation in an age-appropriate way.

Also, I'd like to second that the police are definitely not going to think you are stupid if you call them. Dealing with this is their job.
posted by medusa at 10:51 AM on November 30, 2011 [1 favorite]

It is well known that well-meaning but untrained laypeople (and poorly trained professionals) can seriously corrupt the value of a child's memories because children are really impressionable. This can create unfair problems for the target of an investigation and severe psychological damage for a child. If your child has unaccountable behavioral problems or appears to have suffered some unexplained psychological trauma, you should consult an expert.

I would also contact the police to see if they have any reason to think the arrestee has engaged in conduct beyond just consuming illegal porn. You should also try to find out what, specifically, he's accused of. If he's looking at 14 year old boys, then there's not so much for you to worry about.

Also, it's worth keeping in mind that just having an image in your browser cache from an "ew gross" website is enough to get your arrested and prosecuted. I wouldn't jump to any conclusions, especially since the arrestee hasn't been convicted of anything.
posted by Hylas at 11:00 AM on November 30, 2011 [7 favorites]

I'm not sure why you think they wouldn't remember; even now in my 30s I have vivid memories of violent experiences I had when 2-3 years old

It varies from person to person, but most people can't remember specific events from around that general age range. See the Wikipedia page on childhood amnesia. Plus if you go about this sort of discussion the wrong way, you can actually introduce false memories, which has been the cause of a lot of false child abuse claims (although most of the ones I know of were through techniques that actively provoke false memories such as "memory recovery therapy").
posted by burnmp3s at 11:10 AM on November 30, 2011 [5 favorites]

ask your children if anything happened

I wouldn't do this without consulting an expert (i.e., a child psychologist) first--for all the reasons of planting false memories outlined above. If your children show no signs of trauma I think it is almost certainly better to leave them be.
posted by yoink at 11:13 AM on November 30, 2011 [23 favorites]

If your children show no signs of trauma I think it is almost certainly better to leave them be.

Yes.

Do call the police (or whoever is handling) and explain your situation.

Do not say anything to or do anything around your children that might upset them. If there does appear to be a reason for concern, get professional help.
posted by Lesser Shrew at 11:18 AM on November 30, 2011 [13 favorites]

Yeah, on consideration, leave your kids out of it. If they were older when they were there, like 6-8, then maybe, but if they've shown no signs of distress or disturbance then leave it lie.
posted by KathrynT at 11:24 AM on November 30, 2011

You are in a really tough situation.

Instead of talking to your daughters directly, could you make appointments for them with a child psychologist? Maybe explain your concerns to her and she might be able to talk to your daughters without creating any "false memories".
posted by pintapicasso at 1:02 PM on November 30, 2011

I agree with leaving your kids out of it at least for now.

But I suggest two calls:

(1)
To the police, and tell them exactly what you told us here.

(2)
To your children's pediatrician, who almost certainly will have something to say on the matter.

If the children have not demonstrated any kind of distress in the past, chances are they are fine. But for your own sanity, input from the professionals can only help.
posted by cool breeze at 1:18 PM on November 30, 2011 [1 favorite]

I'm kind of with "leave it lie" as well. Unless you have some other reason to believe that they are suffering from some strange memory like this and in that case I'd get a professional opinion on the best course of action. Since the guy would have been supervised, it would be unlikely that anything untoward happened while they were in that care center.

I do think you should contact the police as others have said and just ask if there's any cause for concern. You can leave your name and number with them and the years your kids were in that daycare.

And, don't worry about seeming "weird" or whatever. This is super creepy and super distressing. And you're a parent whose number 1 concern is for the welfare of your children. There's nothing weird about that. I guess just try to reassure yourself that your kids were in all likelihood not molested by this guy. And go easy on yourself.
posted by amanda at 1:23 PM on November 30, 2011

Well, I don't think there's a danger of implanting memories by simply asking them about this guy, how he interacted with them, did he ever do anything that made them uncomfortable, etc. I think you should ask them; if anything did happen, they need your help and they've carried the burden by themselves long enough.
posted by WorkingMyWayHome at 1:35 PM on November 30, 2011 [1 favorite]

Talk to the police and ask them if there is anything you need to know about the situation. What were the ages and sexes in the porn on the computer? Was he just viewing it or was he taking the photos too? Then call your children's doctor and make and appoinment for *just yourself* to go in and talk to the doctor about the situation. Leave the girls out of it until you have professional guidance on what to say and how to say it.
posted by ThatCanadianGirl at 1:42 PM on November 30, 2011

Also, it's worth keeping in mind that just having an image in your browser cache from an "ew gross" website is enough to get your arrested and prosecuted.

I wish I didn't know this in a first hand way. But actually, in some states, it takes much much more than that for prosecution.
posted by bilabial at 2:53 PM on November 30, 2011

I agree you should ask the police and not worry about what they think of you.

But if it helps, I think it is really really super unlikely that he took pictures of your daughters. Unless he was alone with them for long periods of time (which at a daycare is unlikely), it's hard to see how he could take the sort of photos he would have wanted, and it would have been much riskier in terms of being caught, and much harder to explain away, than inappropriate touching or other molestation. If you don't have reason to believe the girls were molested, I think pictures are even less likely.

He probably got his pictures from the internet, from other pedophiles, and maybe if he was the extremely scary sort, from kids he lured to his house or another safe and private place.
posted by lollusc at 3:06 PM on November 30, 2011

I would call the daycare, and ask if there were always 2 staff members on, and tell them you are concerned, and ask them for the name of the detective investigating. Call the detective. I wouldn't ask the children anything specific, but I would ask them, separately, what they remember about the daycare - Sam, remember going to Happy Trails? What did you think about it? and listen for clues, like That one guy was weird Then, a few days later - Terry, I know I've told you this before, but I want to remind you that it's always okay to tell us about anything. No matter what. Open-ended questions about what they think and how they feel are good ways to launch a conversation. Assuming they are unscathed, which is most likely, you get to talk to your girls some more. they'll be adolescents soon, and the conversations will change. a lot.
posted by theora55 at 3:32 PM on November 30, 2011

The police won't think you're weird or stupid at all. Call them, you'll feel better than you do now.

Also, yeah, it's likely he didn't actually do much at the daycare itself, especially since he wasn't in charge of it.
posted by SMPA at 3:34 PM on November 30, 2011

Well, I don't think there's a danger of implanting memories by simply asking them about this guy, how he interacted with them, did he ever do anything that made them uncomfortable, etc

Actually, that's pretty much the textbook way to go about planting false memories. Children aren't stupid. You ask 'did he ever do anything that made them uncomfortable' and they know perfectly well which answer is the interesting one--the one that will up the intensity of the exchange. It's not that they'll immediately come out with a fully formed narrative of molestation, it's that if they say anything that makes you think the answer is 'yes' you'll get into a loop of continued probing and questioning where they'll shape their answers closer and closer to your worst fears. And by that time the children will firmly believe that what they are saying is true. This has been demonstrated over and over again when the questioners had nothing but the best intentions.
posted by yoink at 4:34 PM on November 30, 2011 [3 favorites]

Response by poster: Thank you all for the input. I'm still trying to figure out what to do. For sure I am going casually ask my daughters about their daycare days and what they remember about the different teachers and people that worked there and see how they react. But my husband does not want me to call the police. He is adamant about it. Our daughters seem just fine and don't show any signs of psychological or emotional issues and he's so scared of opening a can of worms and what it's going to do to us if we find out that something indeed happened. We can barely talk about it with each other without getting emotional. The daycare no longer exists otherwise I would call and find out if the guy ever was alone with children or if he was allowed to take the girls to the bathroom...they were in the potty training stage at that time. Again, thanks for everyone's input.
posted by daydreamer at 7:57 PM on November 30, 2011

But my husband does not want me to call the police. He is adamant about it. Our daughters seem just fine and don't show any signs of psychological or emotional issues and he's so scared of opening a can of worms and what it's going to do to us if we find out that something indeed happened. We can barely talk about it with each other without getting emotional.

I just want to highlight something here that others have brought up in a sort of oblique way: pedophilia is a sexual attraction, and pedophiles (like everyone else) have a specific attraction profile. It may not be toddler girls. It may be toddler boys, or pre-teen boys, or early teen girls or only kids in photographs, something else entirely. Contacting the police will tell you a very vital piece of information: what his (apparent, alleged) preference is. Knowing this may do quite a bit to set your mind at ease (or, you know, not). Also know that an allegation is NOT a conviction. What you're dealing with here is an allegation, one of the scariest than can be made. But it's not a conviction - not yet. Don't forget that there are thousands and thousands of allegations made every year that are simply not true.

Also, while I understand your husband's reaction, you and he need to understand this: if there are worms in the can (and I actually think it's unlikely that there are, at least for your family), opening the can is (in the long term) better than keeping the lid on it. If you doubt that for a second, go look at the conversation that took place here on Metafilter after the Penn State allegations came to light. For a lot of kids, having an adult know or suspect and still choose to do nothing - to not open the can, basically - is in many ways worse than the actual act that took place. So, as hard as it might be, continue to talk with your husband about this, and do what you need to do to get all the information you need.

I want to say one other thing, too, from a more personal standpoint: in a lot of ways, we shame the victims of sexual abuse. We shame them over something they had no control over. We shame them with thoughts like "what it's going to do to us if we find out that something indeed happened." What would it do, exactly? How would it change your lives? While I understand the fear of being witnesses in a case like this, short of that it probably wouldn't change your lives that much, especially since your daughters seem to be, as you say, well adjusted now. Is your fear that it would somehow change how you view them? It shouldn't. Would it change how you love them? Of course not. Would it change how you feel about yourself? Probably, but this is truly a case where if it happened there was nothing at all you could have done - no information you had at the time that might have chanced the choices you would have made.

Don't let your own fears get in the way of getting help for your daughters (if they need it). Don't be the parent who knows or suspects, yet does nothing.
posted by anastasiav at 9:56 PM on November 30, 2011 [8 favorites]

I'm with anastasiav on this; you can't just let this go and hope everything's okay. And I am not suggesting a detailed round of questioning, as yoink seems to think; I'm urging you to have a casual conversation with your kids about what things were like at their old day care center. If anything comes up that worries you, I would take them to a therapist.

I would have given anything when I was a child for somebody who actually cared about me to just ask me how things were going, if I was okay, if anybody was hurting me. I would have given anything, but nobody wanted to know, so I had to deal with my terrors and my guilt all on my own.
posted by WorkingMyWayHome at 2:32 PM on December 1, 2011 [1 favorite]

he's so scared of opening a can of worms and what it's going to do to us if we find out that something indeed happened.

Wait, he's saying that he'd rather NOT know if something did happen to your girls? Does he realize that him not knowing is not the same as "it didn't happen." You do realize, too, that you can now never NOT know that there is a chance that something did happen. And it will eat at you and eat at you until you do know. So better to look into it now, so you can look you daughters in the eye later.
posted by ThatCanadianGirl at 5:52 PM on December 1, 2011

Response by poster: Well, I ended up calling. I first talked to my daughters about their memories of going to that school and of the teachers without bringing up anything specific and watched and listened closely for any odd answers or reactions. They do not seem to have any negative memories of it. I told the person who answered at the police dept. everything...the ages my daughters were when they went to that school and my concern about them being in any of the photos, but that I had talked to them and didn't have any reason to be believe anything happened. The person asked me if they were ever off campus with him and when I said no, she said I had nothing to worry about. Also, updated news stories suggest that it is mainly boys involved.

I think my husband's line of thinking was...why bring up memories of something they may have totally forgotten and drag them into all the pain and turmoil of a court case and all of that. In his defense he would have never felt this way if our girls did not seem to be happy, productive, perfectly normal 11 year old girls.
posted by daydreamer at 6:37 AM on December 2, 2011 [2 favorites]

That's good. You must both be so relieved. (Heck, I'm even relieved!)
posted by ThatCanadianGirl at 10:36 AM on December 2, 2011

Response by poster: I am soooo relieved! Thanks ThatCanadianGirl. :)
posted by daydreamer at 10:44 AM on December 2, 2011