Last-minute soil for winter garden
October 16, 2011 12:14 PM Subscribe
We have a new house and huge yard. We're eager to fill it with plantlife. In fact, we're a little too eager and found some good prices, so we already bought over 200 seedlings, half of which are kale and chard.
We live in Davis, CA, in the CA central valley near Sacramento, in the west region that is known for particularly clay-y soil.
Our main source of garden information is from: http://daviswiki.org/gardening
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See inside for 9 questions we have as last-minute uneducated gardeners....
1. When and how should worms be added to the garden bed? Or should worms just be kept in the compost to produce casting that will then be transferred to the garden bed?
2. How long is reasonable to keep seedlings in their tiny trays before transplanting?
3. We have a 10ft x 15ft raised bed of clay soil, 30lbs of storebought "compost soil", and 30lbs of fresh horse manure. Is this enough to mix into the clay soil?
4. Is it ok to start planting right after mixing the soil? I've read that after mixing in compost, you should wait a few WEEKS before planting. Unfortunately we don't have a choice since the plants are here and people are eager to get them in the ground.
5. Is fresh horse manure harmful for plants? Is there anything that we can do in a short amount of time to make it usable in our bed?
6. What are some other soil amendments you would recommend?
7. Important: How reasonable is it to put plants in the ground with bad soil, then dig them up a few weeks later, amend the soil, and replant them? Will it most likely severely stunt the plants?
8. In general, how agreeable are various types of plants to being transplanted? What are the most important considerations when transplanting?
9. Is there typically a problem with planting plants of the same species very close to one another? (specifically chard and kale) Will planting them too close just prevent each plant from getting large? Will the yield of edible leaves (the growing rate) be increased or decreased by planting them close?
1. When and how should worms be added to the garden bed? Or should worms just be kept in the compost to produce casting that will then be transferred to the garden bed?
2. How long is reasonable to keep seedlings in their tiny trays before transplanting?
3. We have a 10ft x 15ft raised bed of clay soil, 30lbs of storebought "compost soil", and 30lbs of fresh horse manure. Is this enough to mix into the clay soil?
4. Is it ok to start planting right after mixing the soil? I've read that after mixing in compost, you should wait a few WEEKS before planting. Unfortunately we don't have a choice since the plants are here and people are eager to get them in the ground.
5. Is fresh horse manure harmful for plants? Is there anything that we can do in a short amount of time to make it usable in our bed?
6. What are some other soil amendments you would recommend?
7. Important: How reasonable is it to put plants in the ground with bad soil, then dig them up a few weeks later, amend the soil, and replant them? Will it most likely severely stunt the plants?
8. In general, how agreeable are various types of plants to being transplanted? What are the most important considerations when transplanting?
9. Is there typically a problem with planting plants of the same species very close to one another? (specifically chard and kale) Will planting them too close just prevent each plant from getting large? Will the yield of edible leaves (the growing rate) be increased or decreased by planting them close?
1. Just sit them on the ground and let them work their way in. They're worms; they know what to do.
2. Depending on the size of the trays you're talking about, seedlings probably need to move now. Once they're recognizable.
3. Yes, that should do you just fine.
4. You can plant right after mixing your soil. The only concern is if you're using hot compost (ie compost that hasn't completely degraded to a stable state).
5. Horse manure is not harmful per se, but it is considered hot, in that it hasn't completely broken down yet. If aged a little bit, you could always side-dress with it to better effect.
6. I think what you have is adequate. The main goal is to have soil that is loose, but can still hold moisture. If you grab a fistfull in your hand and squeeze it, you'd like for it to sort of stay in that shape for a bit.
7. This will likely cause you trouble. You can always pull up the big roots, but most plants make teeny roots that you'll never be able to get out of the soil.
8. When transplanting, try to take as much of the original medium with you as possible. Your plant has already gotten used to that environment, and anything else will be a shock.
9. Should not be a problem. Kale and chard are regularly grown as decorative plants, and don't seem to mind being set up next to each other.
posted by Gilbert at 12:38 PM on October 16, 2011
2. Depending on the size of the trays you're talking about, seedlings probably need to move now. Once they're recognizable.
3. Yes, that should do you just fine.
4. You can plant right after mixing your soil. The only concern is if you're using hot compost (ie compost that hasn't completely degraded to a stable state).
5. Horse manure is not harmful per se, but it is considered hot, in that it hasn't completely broken down yet. If aged a little bit, you could always side-dress with it to better effect.
6. I think what you have is adequate. The main goal is to have soil that is loose, but can still hold moisture. If you grab a fistfull in your hand and squeeze it, you'd like for it to sort of stay in that shape for a bit.
7. This will likely cause you trouble. You can always pull up the big roots, but most plants make teeny roots that you'll never be able to get out of the soil.
8. When transplanting, try to take as much of the original medium with you as possible. Your plant has already gotten used to that environment, and anything else will be a shock.
9. Should not be a problem. Kale and chard are regularly grown as decorative plants, and don't seem to mind being set up next to each other.
posted by Gilbert at 12:38 PM on October 16, 2011
I would recommend a book called Gardening when it counts:Growing food in Hard Times by Steve Soloman. He also has a web site called Soil and Health Library. Most of the stuff in the library is the fruits of the Soil Conversation Service that FDR started in the great depression to stop the dust bowl. One of the most successful endeavors of the new deal and it changed farming in the this (and many other) countries. It set the stage for the green revolution and probably was instrumental in turning the central valley into the irrigated powerhouse of truck (vegetables for human consumption) farming it has been. All your questions have answers in that book and better explanations in the source materials on that page. From what I know here is my understanding of the answers:
1.When the soil is right the worms will appear. Just add worms to your compost, or better yet dig a shallow depression, build a cheap slat enclosure from old pallets, and compost in that. The worms will find their way in just fine and do their thing. If you have the worms already just add them to the compost to jump start it. The primary job of compost is to add organic material to the soil in biologically available forms. It is more trouble than it is worth to try and make your compost your fertilizer.
2. Not very long, you can transplant to larger containers however.
3. 60 lbs of organic material might not be enough to amend the soil, might be too much. Clayey soil is not the worst thing in the world unless you have soil that can be used to make pottery with. Mix it in thoroughly and plant and see what happens.
4. It is ok, but with fresh horse manure might not be ideal. Manure needs to 'cure' for a while, the best way is to compost it with other material like lawn clippings and shredded fall leaves. Sawdust isn't bad material either but can be risky and make your soil to basic (ph level higher than 7).
5 and 6. Fresh horse manure usually has way to much nitrogen available and can burn plants, particularly seedlings. Better to compost it first. The best, easiest way to fertilizer your soil is with some kind of seed meal (coffee grounds work ok, so does spent mash from brewing, i use cottonseed as it is available and reasonably cheap). You should be able to find something in the central valley like this really cheap. I mix 4 parts of this with 1 part magnesium lime and 1 part calcium lime and then some blood or algae meal, but you can skip this and use a little(no or than 1 part fresh manure finely broken up) for this same effect. You need to work this into your soil. However there is no substitute for testing you soil to see what YOUR soil is deficient in and the exact makeup (clay/silt/sand) percentage. This will tell you what you need to do specifically.
7. Probably better to transplant to larger pots rather than this. However that can get expensive, just amend the little bit of soil right around your planting if you don't have enough material for the whole plot and after harvest then amend it. The plants themselves will do a wonderful job of breaking up the soil and make the next harvest much better. Don't forgot the portion of the plant you don't harvest is organic material to be mixed back in the soil or composted.
8. Really depends on the plant. This is covered well in the book.
9. The biggest problem is cross pollination of similair plants like squash/zuchinni/cucumber. Once again covered in the book in detail (both 8 and 9 differ a bunch depending on the plant, too much detail for here). Crowding can definately decrease harvest yield, however some plants like peas really like it. Depends on the plant.
Good luck. Gardening is a process, with a steep learning curve. Growing your own food is awesome though. Gives you a reverence for it and the meaning of by the sweat of your brow.
posted by bartonlong at 12:39 PM on October 16, 2011 [1 favorite]
1.When the soil is right the worms will appear. Just add worms to your compost, or better yet dig a shallow depression, build a cheap slat enclosure from old pallets, and compost in that. The worms will find their way in just fine and do their thing. If you have the worms already just add them to the compost to jump start it. The primary job of compost is to add organic material to the soil in biologically available forms. It is more trouble than it is worth to try and make your compost your fertilizer.
2. Not very long, you can transplant to larger containers however.
3. 60 lbs of organic material might not be enough to amend the soil, might be too much. Clayey soil is not the worst thing in the world unless you have soil that can be used to make pottery with. Mix it in thoroughly and plant and see what happens.
4. It is ok, but with fresh horse manure might not be ideal. Manure needs to 'cure' for a while, the best way is to compost it with other material like lawn clippings and shredded fall leaves. Sawdust isn't bad material either but can be risky and make your soil to basic (ph level higher than 7).
5 and 6. Fresh horse manure usually has way to much nitrogen available and can burn plants, particularly seedlings. Better to compost it first. The best, easiest way to fertilizer your soil is with some kind of seed meal (coffee grounds work ok, so does spent mash from brewing, i use cottonseed as it is available and reasonably cheap). You should be able to find something in the central valley like this really cheap. I mix 4 parts of this with 1 part magnesium lime and 1 part calcium lime and then some blood or algae meal, but you can skip this and use a little(no or than 1 part fresh manure finely broken up) for this same effect. You need to work this into your soil. However there is no substitute for testing you soil to see what YOUR soil is deficient in and the exact makeup (clay/silt/sand) percentage. This will tell you what you need to do specifically.
7. Probably better to transplant to larger pots rather than this. However that can get expensive, just amend the little bit of soil right around your planting if you don't have enough material for the whole plot and after harvest then amend it. The plants themselves will do a wonderful job of breaking up the soil and make the next harvest much better. Don't forgot the portion of the plant you don't harvest is organic material to be mixed back in the soil or composted.
8. Really depends on the plant. This is covered well in the book.
9. The biggest problem is cross pollination of similair plants like squash/zuchinni/cucumber. Once again covered in the book in detail (both 8 and 9 differ a bunch depending on the plant, too much detail for here). Crowding can definately decrease harvest yield, however some plants like peas really like it. Depends on the plant.
Good luck. Gardening is a process, with a steep learning curve. Growing your own food is awesome though. Gives you a reverence for it and the meaning of by the sweat of your brow.
posted by bartonlong at 12:39 PM on October 16, 2011 [1 favorite]
The Sunset Garden book is really your bible. I can always find it at various thrift stores. Also--Gardenweb.com is a fantastic resource, especially for your zone. The CA Extension service might also be useful.
posted by Ideefixe at 12:58 PM on October 16, 2011
posted by Ideefixe at 12:58 PM on October 16, 2011
Fresh manure can burn plants. Davis has to have a free compost program somewhere - it's Davis!
posted by rtha at 1:06 PM on October 16, 2011
posted by rtha at 1:06 PM on October 16, 2011
So. What about adding the compost soul now and planting in that, then adding the horse manure after it cures for a few weeks?
As for spacing, have you checked out the John Jeavons book How to Grow More Plants in Less Space than You Thought Possible (or something like that)?
posted by salvia at 1:23 PM on October 16, 2011
As for spacing, have you checked out the John Jeavons book How to Grow More Plants in Less Space than You Thought Possible (or something like that)?
posted by salvia at 1:23 PM on October 16, 2011
Just one thing: Greensand and finished compost are the two very best amendments for heavy clay soil. Both will help to break up the slippery plate-like structure of clay and improve aeration, water retention and drainage.
Decent info on how to improve clay soil.
posted by vers at 1:44 PM on October 16, 2011
Decent info on how to improve clay soil.
posted by vers at 1:44 PM on October 16, 2011
1.) You don't need to add worms. If the soil is suitable, they will be there; if not, worms you add won't stay.
2.) A week or so, though generally if conditions are right they grow faster in the ground.
3.)Don't know. I don't know what "compost soil" is- that's not a real soil term. I also don't know how high your raised bed is (BTW, very hard to garden in a bed that wide- if it is for vegetables, you shouldn't be walking around in it and compacting the soil). If you want to know how much space an amendment will take up, you need to express it in volume measurement, not weight, such as cubic feet or cubic yards. I'm guessing it's not enough.
4.) You don't need to wait unless the compost is not actually composted, and you don't mix it in properly. If it is hot (still composting) and you put down a layer, it can burn your plants or become anaerobic.
5.) yes, fresh horse manure is very harmful- see my post about compost. Additionally, it is also very high in nitrogen and may cause fertilizer burn. Manures tend to be high in salt, and should not be added regularly even when they have been composted. Manure from Davis can also be high in boron.
6.)Without a soil test to tell you what specific nutrients you may or may not need, compost. That's the only thing you should be adding to clay soil (unless they are sodic, in which case you can add gypsum, which works by displacing Na on clay particles, causing soil structure to degrade. This is true of some of the most alkaline soils in Davis, so get a soil test). Compost adds organic material which increases soil aggregation, improves drainage and aeration. Clay soil is generally high in nutrients, including calcium, and tends to be alkaline. Do not add calcium of any kind unless you do a soil test. Organic material helps lower the pH. Davis soil in particular is high in boron, because the water is. You will often notice tip burn on leaves especially at the end of the summer due to boron. There's not much you can do about this but gardening in raised beds helps leach the boron away from plant roots Do not, under any circumstances, add sand. People will tell you to do so- do not listen to them. No soil scientist will tell you to add sand. It does nothing for clay soils except add structure, which is not helpful.
7.) Not reasonable if we are talking about vegetable seedlings. Plant them in bad soil if you must, but mulch with compost. Eventually the compost will be worked in, and the humic acids and soluble nutrients will get into the soil (you should do this every year anyway). Do not dig them up and then amend the soil and plant them again- you are likely to do more harm than good. If you must, plant them up in larger pots, and then plant in the ground when you can. Ideally, you ready your planting area before buying plants.
8.) It totally depends on the plant and how careful you are and the time of year and time of day, &c. There's no general thing to say about this that is true of most plants. However, I have worked as a professional gardener and do it all the time with established plants, but I'm careful and don't do it on hot days or in heavy, wet soils, or under any other stressful circumstances. If we're talking about seedlings of vegetables you are likely to set them back because they are more delicate and have a shorter life span. Perennials care less about a stressful day being transplanted. It's important to have a rootball that's roughly equivalent or larger than the above-ground portion of the plant, but extra soil is not necessary. You really want to get the plant growing in the native soil ASAP. Beware of taking plants in a nice potting mix and planting them in a smooth sided clay hole. The hole edges should be rough, and the crown of the root ball should not be lower than the soil surface.
9.) you should plant them at the recommended planting distribution. Too crowded and you will get lower yield, too far apart and you're wasting resources and space. Believe me, plant growers would like you to jam plants close together so you can buy more, but they don't want you to be dissatisfied with a low yield. Their recommendations are what you should do for now.
about clay soil in general: do everything in your power not to compact it. Do not walk in beds. Always mulch with compost. Do not dig in wet soil- that compacts it. Plant plants on the high side rather than the low. Assume, until you get a soil test, that your soil is fairly fertile (clay has a high cation exchange capacity, and Davis was chosen as the site for Berkeley agricultural college because of the fertile soil and the train station) and you do not need to fertilize. Assume it is high in calcium; most clay soils are. Assume, due to the generally high calcium content of clay soils and the high boron content of Davis water that your soil is on the alkaline side. You may see deficiencies of iron, manganese, and possibly copper and zinc due to the high pH.
posted by oneirodynia at 2:49 PM on October 17, 2011
2.) A week or so, though generally if conditions are right they grow faster in the ground.
3.)Don't know. I don't know what "compost soil" is- that's not a real soil term. I also don't know how high your raised bed is (BTW, very hard to garden in a bed that wide- if it is for vegetables, you shouldn't be walking around in it and compacting the soil). If you want to know how much space an amendment will take up, you need to express it in volume measurement, not weight, such as cubic feet or cubic yards. I'm guessing it's not enough.
4.) You don't need to wait unless the compost is not actually composted, and you don't mix it in properly. If it is hot (still composting) and you put down a layer, it can burn your plants or become anaerobic.
5.) yes, fresh horse manure is very harmful- see my post about compost. Additionally, it is also very high in nitrogen and may cause fertilizer burn. Manures tend to be high in salt, and should not be added regularly even when they have been composted. Manure from Davis can also be high in boron.
6.)Without a soil test to tell you what specific nutrients you may or may not need, compost. That's the only thing you should be adding to clay soil (unless they are sodic, in which case you can add gypsum, which works by displacing Na on clay particles, causing soil structure to degrade. This is true of some of the most alkaline soils in Davis, so get a soil test). Compost adds organic material which increases soil aggregation, improves drainage and aeration. Clay soil is generally high in nutrients, including calcium, and tends to be alkaline. Do not add calcium of any kind unless you do a soil test. Organic material helps lower the pH. Davis soil in particular is high in boron, because the water is. You will often notice tip burn on leaves especially at the end of the summer due to boron. There's not much you can do about this but gardening in raised beds helps leach the boron away from plant roots Do not, under any circumstances, add sand. People will tell you to do so- do not listen to them. No soil scientist will tell you to add sand. It does nothing for clay soils except add structure, which is not helpful.
7.) Not reasonable if we are talking about vegetable seedlings. Plant them in bad soil if you must, but mulch with compost. Eventually the compost will be worked in, and the humic acids and soluble nutrients will get into the soil (you should do this every year anyway). Do not dig them up and then amend the soil and plant them again- you are likely to do more harm than good. If you must, plant them up in larger pots, and then plant in the ground when you can. Ideally, you ready your planting area before buying plants.
8.) It totally depends on the plant and how careful you are and the time of year and time of day, &c. There's no general thing to say about this that is true of most plants. However, I have worked as a professional gardener and do it all the time with established plants, but I'm careful and don't do it on hot days or in heavy, wet soils, or under any other stressful circumstances. If we're talking about seedlings of vegetables you are likely to set them back because they are more delicate and have a shorter life span. Perennials care less about a stressful day being transplanted. It's important to have a rootball that's roughly equivalent or larger than the above-ground portion of the plant, but extra soil is not necessary. You really want to get the plant growing in the native soil ASAP. Beware of taking plants in a nice potting mix and planting them in a smooth sided clay hole. The hole edges should be rough, and the crown of the root ball should not be lower than the soil surface.
9.) you should plant them at the recommended planting distribution. Too crowded and you will get lower yield, too far apart and you're wasting resources and space. Believe me, plant growers would like you to jam plants close together so you can buy more, but they don't want you to be dissatisfied with a low yield. Their recommendations are what you should do for now.
about clay soil in general: do everything in your power not to compact it. Do not walk in beds. Always mulch with compost. Do not dig in wet soil- that compacts it. Plant plants on the high side rather than the low. Assume, until you get a soil test, that your soil is fairly fertile (clay has a high cation exchange capacity, and Davis was chosen as the site for Berkeley agricultural college because of the fertile soil and the train station) and you do not need to fertilize. Assume it is high in calcium; most clay soils are. Assume, due to the generally high calcium content of clay soils and the high boron content of Davis water that your soil is on the alkaline side. You may see deficiencies of iron, manganese, and possibly copper and zinc due to the high pH.
posted by oneirodynia at 2:49 PM on October 17, 2011
Ugh, sorry for crappy grammar above- too much cut and paste. This sentence: unless they are sodic, in which case you can add gypsum, which works by displacing Na on clay particles, causing soil structure to degrade.
Should be :
unless they are sodic, in which case you can add gypsum, which works by displacing Na on clay particles. The Na causes soil particles to flocculate, causing soil structure to degrade. You build soil structure with soil organic matter.
posted by oneirodynia at 2:54 PM on October 17, 2011
Should be :
unless they are sodic, in which case you can add gypsum, which works by displacing Na on clay particles. The Na causes soil particles to flocculate, causing soil structure to degrade. You build soil structure with soil organic matter.
posted by oneirodynia at 2:54 PM on October 17, 2011
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posted by TheBones at 12:34 PM on October 16, 2011