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August 11, 2011 7:15 AM Subscribe
How can I tell my biological clock to simmer down?
I had always been someone who was terrified of the idea of having kids. But since my best friend became my fiance and now my husband, I've progressed from thinking having a kid would be The Worst Idea Ever to something I think I actually want to do sooner rather than later.
To be clear, that's the emotional side of my head talking. Intellectually and practically, having a small person now is not a good idea. I'm 29. I just got a job I'm excited about less than a year ago. We live in a crappy basement apartment. I still have some adventures up my sleeve and I would definitely like to buy a place where we could raise a little person before the little person starts cooking. I'm not even sure we want to raise a small person in this city.
At some point, the emotional and the rational, logical sides of my brain talked and I started thinking, okay, you don't want to have a kid without owning a place - get a place! You want to move out of your crappy basement apartment anyway, interest rates are low, you have almost enough money to make it work.
I am not entirely opposed to buying a place now but it doesn't feel right yet. Like I said, I'm not sure we want to raise a small person in this city. We'd be cutting it close financially. I know it's never going to be easy to buy a place but I just don't think we're ready yet. But my apartment sucks and I hate the idea of moving to a different apartment - our current place is a crappy basement but it's roomy, in a great location, and really cheap.
Meanwhile, I have these romantic notions of how buying a house and having a kid work that conflict with how they actually work. In almost every movie where someone has a kid, it's a wonderful surprise that works out in the end and along the way you find your dream house and you sign things and then it just magically comes together. In real life, I've known plenty of people who have miscarried and others who have bought places and said it's a ton of work.
Basically, I don't think we're ready to do these things but a strong part of me does not care. Not to mention that some of my peers are doing these things and yes, I'm a little jealous. It's like when you're a little kid and you see grown-ups getting mail and you think, I like mail! I want mail! Then you grow up and start getting mail and find that it's almost all bills and very few birthday cards from your grandparents.
My husband has been super supportive and wonderful about everything, for real. When I started talking about buying a place, he said, sure, let's check places out. He used to be really reticent about talking about kids but he asked me the other day how many I'd like to have whenever we start having them. At the same time, I feel like I'm being pulled to get a place and have kids. I don't think he's feeling the same "pull." Especially when we started talking about getting an IUD.
What's weird is that I did not feel this "pull" about getting married. At one point, I felt a little sad that we were going to our friends' weddings and not getting married ourselves but then he proposed.
I've been thinking about trying to distract myself with other things. I want to volunteer more so I stop feeling sorry for myself. I've been thinking of connecting with a personal trainer to get healthier. But the same part of my head that says Get House Have Baby thinks those things are stupid.
I also feel like this is a stupid question but I really appreciate and thank those of you who don't or at least are polite enough to humor me.
TL; DR: I want to get a place. I want to have kids. Just Not. Right. Now. How do I convince the part of my brain that is saying that I should do it now to pipe down for a few years?
PS: If you could please focus on answering the question and helping me mellow out rather than convincing me that getting a place and having kids right now is a great idea, I'd really appreciate it. If that's how you really feel, go nuts but that's not what I'm going for, for what that's worth. Thanks!
I had always been someone who was terrified of the idea of having kids. But since my best friend became my fiance and now my husband, I've progressed from thinking having a kid would be The Worst Idea Ever to something I think I actually want to do sooner rather than later.
To be clear, that's the emotional side of my head talking. Intellectually and practically, having a small person now is not a good idea. I'm 29. I just got a job I'm excited about less than a year ago. We live in a crappy basement apartment. I still have some adventures up my sleeve and I would definitely like to buy a place where we could raise a little person before the little person starts cooking. I'm not even sure we want to raise a small person in this city.
At some point, the emotional and the rational, logical sides of my brain talked and I started thinking, okay, you don't want to have a kid without owning a place - get a place! You want to move out of your crappy basement apartment anyway, interest rates are low, you have almost enough money to make it work.
I am not entirely opposed to buying a place now but it doesn't feel right yet. Like I said, I'm not sure we want to raise a small person in this city. We'd be cutting it close financially. I know it's never going to be easy to buy a place but I just don't think we're ready yet. But my apartment sucks and I hate the idea of moving to a different apartment - our current place is a crappy basement but it's roomy, in a great location, and really cheap.
Meanwhile, I have these romantic notions of how buying a house and having a kid work that conflict with how they actually work. In almost every movie where someone has a kid, it's a wonderful surprise that works out in the end and along the way you find your dream house and you sign things and then it just magically comes together. In real life, I've known plenty of people who have miscarried and others who have bought places and said it's a ton of work.
Basically, I don't think we're ready to do these things but a strong part of me does not care. Not to mention that some of my peers are doing these things and yes, I'm a little jealous. It's like when you're a little kid and you see grown-ups getting mail and you think, I like mail! I want mail! Then you grow up and start getting mail and find that it's almost all bills and very few birthday cards from your grandparents.
My husband has been super supportive and wonderful about everything, for real. When I started talking about buying a place, he said, sure, let's check places out. He used to be really reticent about talking about kids but he asked me the other day how many I'd like to have whenever we start having them. At the same time, I feel like I'm being pulled to get a place and have kids. I don't think he's feeling the same "pull." Especially when we started talking about getting an IUD.
What's weird is that I did not feel this "pull" about getting married. At one point, I felt a little sad that we were going to our friends' weddings and not getting married ourselves but then he proposed.
I've been thinking about trying to distract myself with other things. I want to volunteer more so I stop feeling sorry for myself. I've been thinking of connecting with a personal trainer to get healthier. But the same part of my head that says Get House Have Baby thinks those things are stupid.
I also feel like this is a stupid question but I really appreciate and thank those of you who don't or at least are polite enough to humor me.
TL; DR: I want to get a place. I want to have kids. Just Not. Right. Now. How do I convince the part of my brain that is saying that I should do it now to pipe down for a few years?
PS: If you could please focus on answering the question and helping me mellow out rather than convincing me that getting a place and having kids right now is a great idea, I'd really appreciate it. If that's how you really feel, go nuts but that's not what I'm going for, for what that's worth. Thanks!
Spend some time with your friends' kids. Like real time - a whole day babysitting. Enough to get your kid fix AND enough for you to experience some of the unpleasant realities that will pull you away from the dreamy fantasy part of having kids.
posted by unannihilated at 7:27 AM on August 11, 2011 [2 favorites]
posted by unannihilated at 7:27 AM on August 11, 2011 [2 favorites]
The way to do it is to acknowledge the feelings and then say silently to yourself that you don't have to believe the thought that you have children right now.
posted by Ironmouth at 7:34 AM on August 11, 2011
posted by Ironmouth at 7:34 AM on August 11, 2011
I like unnannihilated's idea but it may backfire. We were the first in our circle to have a sprout. In at least one instance a babysitting stint by some friends of ours prompted them to go home that evening and immediately conceive. Some kind of pheromone, I should think, and scary effective. Perhaps a babysitting session doesn't really reflect the grueling marathon that is early parenthood.
posted by zomg at 7:37 AM on August 11, 2011 [2 favorites]
posted by zomg at 7:37 AM on August 11, 2011 [2 favorites]
It seems that you've strongly tied the idea of having kids together with the idea of owning real estate. How would you feel if you untied the two? Explore those feelings. If you need someone to straight up tell you don't have to own a house to have a child, hear that from me. I'm seeing a lot of mixed emotions- on one hand, your current rented apartment is "crappy", on the other hand, it's roomy, cheap, and in a great location. What else would you need in a home, other than owning it, to feel you'd be ready to have a child? Think about it.
Another thing to keep in mind is that if you know you want kids but don't know where exactly you want to raise them long-term, renting is probably a great choice for the first few years. I see a lot of people in AskMeta advise prospective parents to think long-term before conception (like, where will your kids go to school?), and I guess there's some value in having a general vision of what you want, but I don't think you can plan that far in advance. At least I can't- my Life! Plans! have all fallen apart, and the life I fell into is much better than any of the options I planned. If you got pregnant tomorrow, you'd still have, what, 4-5 years to think about the very first school your child would attend? That's a long way off. Better to think about the next step (where will baby be born?) and the one after that (will we need/how will we afford childcare?) and then take the rest as it comes. Setting a short-term timeline on some of the goals you mentioned (housing, adventures, money) could give you something to yell back at your biological clock - "BABIES NOW!" "NO, CLOCK, I SAID WE'RE STARTING TO TRY IN A YEAR, BE QUIET." "OK, I WILL CHECK BACK THEN."
posted by ThePinkSuperhero at 7:38 AM on August 11, 2011 [11 favorites]
Another thing to keep in mind is that if you know you want kids but don't know where exactly you want to raise them long-term, renting is probably a great choice for the first few years. I see a lot of people in AskMeta advise prospective parents to think long-term before conception (like, where will your kids go to school?), and I guess there's some value in having a general vision of what you want, but I don't think you can plan that far in advance. At least I can't- my Life! Plans! have all fallen apart, and the life I fell into is much better than any of the options I planned. If you got pregnant tomorrow, you'd still have, what, 4-5 years to think about the very first school your child would attend? That's a long way off. Better to think about the next step (where will baby be born?) and the one after that (will we need/how will we afford childcare?) and then take the rest as it comes. Setting a short-term timeline on some of the goals you mentioned (housing, adventures, money) could give you something to yell back at your biological clock - "BABIES NOW!" "NO, CLOCK, I SAID WE'RE STARTING TO TRY IN A YEAR, BE QUIET." "OK, I WILL CHECK BACK THEN."
posted by ThePinkSuperhero at 7:38 AM on August 11, 2011 [11 favorites]
Recently I went through the same thing. A friend of mine told me she was pregnant and I found myself desiring a small one. I already have two toddlers, so I knew this was an absurd idea. I discussed it at great length with my husband and he was very supportive of my desire for another. He didn't want one himself, but he could see how badly I wanted one and agreed.
A few days after we decided to go for it, we were at the grocery store with our two little ones. There was a family there who had kids the same age as mine and a newborn. The mother of 3 looked irritated, unhappy and extremely pissed off. We would see them through out the store and her expression never changed. It finally made me realize that maybe it wasn't a good idea to add the third. I didn't want to look like that. I knew that's exactly how I would look if we added another.
So I talked about it with my husband and two days later we walked out helping hands with our new dog Lando! The point of my ramble is those desires can be pushed aside. You just need to get a pet to mother ;)
posted by Sweetmag at 7:49 AM on August 11, 2011 [2 favorites]
A few days after we decided to go for it, we were at the grocery store with our two little ones. There was a family there who had kids the same age as mine and a newborn. The mother of 3 looked irritated, unhappy and extremely pissed off. We would see them through out the store and her expression never changed. It finally made me realize that maybe it wasn't a good idea to add the third. I didn't want to look like that. I knew that's exactly how I would look if we added another.
So I talked about it with my husband and two days later we walked out helping hands with our new dog Lando! The point of my ramble is those desires can be pushed aside. You just need to get a pet to mother ;)
posted by Sweetmag at 7:49 AM on August 11, 2011 [2 favorites]
TPS has it in one.
Decouple the decision of buying real estate from having kids - two very different ssues. Renting with kids may be ideal, particularly if you're not even sure yet where you want to end up. Ask yourself where this idea that you have to own a home before even conceiving came from - and why?
As far as an immediate timeline, the question with your job is whether you think it would support maternity leave and what not from a work-life balance, and figuring out specifically (not just vague ideas) of what adventures you'd like to have before deciding when or if to have kids.
posted by canine epigram at 7:49 AM on August 11, 2011 [4 favorites]
Decouple the decision of buying real estate from having kids - two very different ssues. Renting with kids may be ideal, particularly if you're not even sure yet where you want to end up. Ask yourself where this idea that you have to own a home before even conceiving came from - and why?
As far as an immediate timeline, the question with your job is whether you think it would support maternity leave and what not from a work-life balance, and figuring out specifically (not just vague ideas) of what adventures you'd like to have before deciding when or if to have kids.
posted by canine epigram at 7:49 AM on August 11, 2011 [4 favorites]
My friends said that once they realized there never would be the "perfect" time to have a kid, then they were ready to have a kid. This was happening at the same time my biological clock was ripping my sanity to shreds. Two years later, we are still sans child, but much more sane.
Is it "NEED BABY NOW" or "NEED SOMETHING TO LOVE AND TAKE CARE OF NOW"?
In the last two years, I finished my masters degree, relearned how to crochet, volunteered at the humane society (which really helped fill my "NEED SOMETHING TO LOVE" urges), tried kickboxing, and most importantly reworked our budget so that our house will be paid off within 10 years and so that we could budget in childcare and expenses. That was the big thing - having the financial plan. Once we looked at the numbers, then we knew when we'd be able to afford a child. (In my area, it seems like it would cost about $750-1000/month for a child, so paying off our vehicles and putting extra in savings and cutting our expenses were big)
So, my suggestion to you would be to make a financial plan - ask your friends with kids how much it costs a month (in real money, not guesses) for a child. Then look at your budget and figure out when you'd be able to afford that. Look at housing costs (including future housing costs) along with utility costs (heating, cooling, and electric are HUGE costs you normally don't see in an apartment setting). Make a budget. Make a plan. Plans help me lot.
posted by jillithd at 7:57 AM on August 11, 2011
Is it "NEED BABY NOW" or "NEED SOMETHING TO LOVE AND TAKE CARE OF NOW"?
In the last two years, I finished my masters degree, relearned how to crochet, volunteered at the humane society (which really helped fill my "NEED SOMETHING TO LOVE" urges), tried kickboxing, and most importantly reworked our budget so that our house will be paid off within 10 years and so that we could budget in childcare and expenses. That was the big thing - having the financial plan. Once we looked at the numbers, then we knew when we'd be able to afford a child. (In my area, it seems like it would cost about $750-1000/month for a child, so paying off our vehicles and putting extra in savings and cutting our expenses were big)
So, my suggestion to you would be to make a financial plan - ask your friends with kids how much it costs a month (in real money, not guesses) for a child. Then look at your budget and figure out when you'd be able to afford that. Look at housing costs (including future housing costs) along with utility costs (heating, cooling, and electric are HUGE costs you normally don't see in an apartment setting). Make a budget. Make a plan. Plans help me lot.
posted by jillithd at 7:57 AM on August 11, 2011
Response by poster: Thanks for the ideas so far. kmennie, we have a pet rabbit (knew we couldn't handle a dog but weren't keen on cats) and she's a good pet. Rabbits aren't as snuggly as dogs and cats though.
Thanks for the idea, ThePinkSuperhero re: untying home ownership and parenthood. As for what else I need in a home, dishwasher comes to mind :) I just feel like our place is a kid's place, probably because we've been there for five years. I've been trying to make it more livable since it's a lot more convenient to add more shelving than to move.
The stupid answer to why I would like to own a place before reproducing is that I dated a boy who had a sad story and basically didn't have a home. It's silly but I lived in the same house with my parents until college. Seeing him struggle to figure out what to put as an address on law school application forms kind of stuck with me and I remember thinking that I wanted to own a place before having a kid because I don't want the kid to ever feel like it doesn't have a home. I know that that really means I want the kid to feel like its parents will always be there and that a house is just a pile of bricks. I'm close to untying the two but it's something I would really like before having a kid. Much like how I'd like to travel more but if we got pregnant tomorrow, we'd figure it out.
I'm trying to figure out The Next Adventure - I figure I have a 30th birthday coming up so I'd like to make it a good one. I've been in this job long enough to see colleagues take maternity leave and come back so it seems like a good place for such things.
posted by kat518 at 7:58 AM on August 11, 2011
Thanks for the idea, ThePinkSuperhero re: untying home ownership and parenthood. As for what else I need in a home, dishwasher comes to mind :) I just feel like our place is a kid's place, probably because we've been there for five years. I've been trying to make it more livable since it's a lot more convenient to add more shelving than to move.
The stupid answer to why I would like to own a place before reproducing is that I dated a boy who had a sad story and basically didn't have a home. It's silly but I lived in the same house with my parents until college. Seeing him struggle to figure out what to put as an address on law school application forms kind of stuck with me and I remember thinking that I wanted to own a place before having a kid because I don't want the kid to ever feel like it doesn't have a home. I know that that really means I want the kid to feel like its parents will always be there and that a house is just a pile of bricks. I'm close to untying the two but it's something I would really like before having a kid. Much like how I'd like to travel more but if we got pregnant tomorrow, we'd figure it out.
I'm trying to figure out The Next Adventure - I figure I have a 30th birthday coming up so I'd like to make it a good one. I've been in this job long enough to see colleagues take maternity leave and come back so it seems like a good place for such things.
posted by kat518 at 7:58 AM on August 11, 2011
Response by poster: jillithd, that is a great answer and very practical. Thank you! Can I ask what resources you used to plan? I've heard some folks say that you should try to bank a year's salary if one person will take a year off to be with the kid but that's just an idea. My husband and I really need to talk about financial stuff because we know that's imperative if we are ever to get serious about home ownership.
posted by kat518 at 8:01 AM on August 11, 2011 [1 favorite]
posted by kat518 at 8:01 AM on August 11, 2011 [1 favorite]
All I'm going to say is there is no right or special or magical time to have kids. I'm not going to convince you that now is any better for you than five years from now. I had my kid at 28. I'll be 30 when this second one is born. We have no money. We have no way to purchase a home anywhere in the near future, and we really don't know how we're going to survive until the kids are out of daycare.
A woman I work with and her partner had their child three months after I had mine. They were approaching 50. They both have established careers, own a home, and all sorts of things I want. But they are now in their 50s with a toddler --- I kid you not.
But that was what was, more or less, right for them. They did all these things in their twenties, thirties, and forties that I won't be able to do until I'm in my forties and fifties. I don't mind the trade off so much. I don't think they do, either.
If now is not the right time for you, then just keep telling yourself such. If it isn't, it isn't.
But if you know someday you will have kids, it wouldn't hurt to start reading up on fertility now and understanding that. It's a basic part of women's health --- whether they have children or not --- and it's a good idea for every woman to better understand the various pieces to it.
posted by zizzle at 8:07 AM on August 11, 2011 [1 favorite]
A woman I work with and her partner had their child three months after I had mine. They were approaching 50. They both have established careers, own a home, and all sorts of things I want. But they are now in their 50s with a toddler --- I kid you not.
But that was what was, more or less, right for them. They did all these things in their twenties, thirties, and forties that I won't be able to do until I'm in my forties and fifties. I don't mind the trade off so much. I don't think they do, either.
If now is not the right time for you, then just keep telling yourself such. If it isn't, it isn't.
But if you know someday you will have kids, it wouldn't hurt to start reading up on fertility now and understanding that. It's a basic part of women's health --- whether they have children or not --- and it's a good idea for every woman to better understand the various pieces to it.
posted by zizzle at 8:07 AM on August 11, 2011 [1 favorite]
Well, my husband owned a home before we met, so we had the advantage of already knowing how much our mortgage was - although we did refinance when we redid our budget.
Just googling gave me this Housing Cost Calculator.
We are building up our savings to be six months' worth of housing, insurance, utility and food bills. That was the amount of time that felt "safe" to us for our savings - knowing we could both be out of work for six months and still pay all of our bills. I'm sure there are better answers out in AskMe for how to calculate and build a budget, though. The only advice I can give you is to get real actual numbers and estimate as little as possible. Math isn't magical, so you have to be realistic with your budget.
posted by jillithd at 8:15 AM on August 11, 2011
Just googling gave me this Housing Cost Calculator.
We are building up our savings to be six months' worth of housing, insurance, utility and food bills. That was the amount of time that felt "safe" to us for our savings - knowing we could both be out of work for six months and still pay all of our bills. I'm sure there are better answers out in AskMe for how to calculate and build a budget, though. The only advice I can give you is to get real actual numbers and estimate as little as possible. Math isn't magical, so you have to be realistic with your budget.
posted by jillithd at 8:15 AM on August 11, 2011
I wrote a list of what I needed to have in place before a kid came--everything from "have been taking folic acid for at least 3 months" to "have my vacation time maxed out" to "read some books on child rearing with my husband and discuss". Financial, personal, biological, all mixed in together. When I looked at the list I knew it'd be 3-5 years before it was all done, but when my ovaries cried I just looked at the list and figured out what else I could work on. It was nice to have something to put that energy into, even if it was just me saying "I'm going to read the HELL out of Dr. Spock!"
(That said, "buy a house" was not on that list, and in fact, we had a conversation shortly before we started trying to conceive that boiled down to "house or baby first?" We did baby first, and that was the right decision, I think, because if we'd bought a family house for a family and then had had troubles bearing children, it would've been a big empty house to come home to every night. But that's my emotional bugaboo, not yours. fwiw, my family wasn't in a house until I was in college and I never felt that I didn't have a home. In fact, I think I'm better at home being tied to the people you love and not the walls compared to a lot of people our age.)
posted by tchemgrrl at 8:27 AM on August 11, 2011
(That said, "buy a house" was not on that list, and in fact, we had a conversation shortly before we started trying to conceive that boiled down to "house or baby first?" We did baby first, and that was the right decision, I think, because if we'd bought a family house for a family and then had had troubles bearing children, it would've been a big empty house to come home to every night. But that's my emotional bugaboo, not yours. fwiw, my family wasn't in a house until I was in college and I never felt that I didn't have a home. In fact, I think I'm better at home being tied to the people you love and not the walls compared to a lot of people our age.)
posted by tchemgrrl at 8:27 AM on August 11, 2011
Talk to your doctor. Get screened thoroughly. You're 29. If you have any fertility problems creeping up, when you get around in your mid-30s, you will severely regret the delay. If your doctor goes "all clear, fertile!" then get a pair of cats, and spend time with people's kids.
You need way less money and fewer resources than people imagine for an infant. It's teenagers who are hideously expensive, not young children.
At 29, you could plan on 3 or more children fairly easily, with 2-3 year spacing. At 35, you'd be looking at 1 or 2 without treatment generally, and a bigger family would almost certainly require intervention which is expensive, difficult and painful emotionally and physically. If you want a big family, you should get started earlier. Those women in their 40s with several toddlers are almost certainly women who've been through gruelling fertility treatments.
posted by viggorlijah at 8:46 AM on August 11, 2011 [4 favorites]
You need way less money and fewer resources than people imagine for an infant. It's teenagers who are hideously expensive, not young children.
At 29, you could plan on 3 or more children fairly easily, with 2-3 year spacing. At 35, you'd be looking at 1 or 2 without treatment generally, and a bigger family would almost certainly require intervention which is expensive, difficult and painful emotionally and physically. If you want a big family, you should get started earlier. Those women in their 40s with several toddlers are almost certainly women who've been through gruelling fertility treatments.
posted by viggorlijah at 8:46 AM on August 11, 2011 [4 favorites]
Whenever I get caught up in "OMG I must figure this out now!" about something that either doesn't actually need to be solved right now, or that really can't be solved right now, I tell myself, "I'm going to think about this again at X time." It might be 3 months in the future, 6 months, a year. I write it on my calendar on that date: "Think about having a baby." "Think about buying a new house." Writing it on the calendar helps me trust I really will revisit it, and somehow this helps me get the thing out of my head. Living life for a few months without the fretting often clarifies things; often the urge passes. For instance, about 18 months ago I became convinced that my family of 5 needed a bigger house and needed it right now. Moving really wasn't an option financially, so I back-burnered it for a few months, and the urgent feeling passed in that time.
I often use a combination of that, and the kinds of suggestions people have made up-thread about finding things to work on that will keep the option open, or build toward it. For instance, I no longer want a big house, but at the same time when we're doing financial planning I think about, "What would we need to do to make a bigger house an option if we decided we wanted one in a few more years?"
posted by not that girl at 8:56 AM on August 11, 2011 [1 favorite]
I often use a combination of that, and the kinds of suggestions people have made up-thread about finding things to work on that will keep the option open, or build toward it. For instance, I no longer want a big house, but at the same time when we're doing financial planning I think about, "What would we need to do to make a bigger house an option if we decided we wanted one in a few more years?"
posted by not that girl at 8:56 AM on August 11, 2011 [1 favorite]
My dear friend is moving from NYC to LA with her husband and six month old baby next month. They can't afford the mortgage payments on the house that they bought to have their children in on one salary, and can't find good childcare compatible with their schedules if they both work (film industry). My other friends just moved from NYC to Denver with their one year old, wanting to be near baby's cousins. Conceiving was difficult for them and they won't be able to give him siblings, so cousins it is. And we moved from the commuting suburbs to NYC with a six month old, because my husband's work-from-home business couldn't continue with a tot in the house. We had to separate work and home, though my vision had been a happy harmony of work and play...
What I'm saying is, you may want to separate the child factor from the housing factor for a lot of reasons. Get the nicer rental, get laundry and a dishwasher, and then see how it works with a child. It all feels very different when the child comes. Priorities change. Sometimes you need places to walk; sometimes you want a yard; sometimes you need to be close to work so you can get home for 7:00 bedtime.
posted by xo at 10:04 AM on August 11, 2011 [1 favorite]
What I'm saying is, you may want to separate the child factor from the housing factor for a lot of reasons. Get the nicer rental, get laundry and a dishwasher, and then see how it works with a child. It all feels very different when the child comes. Priorities change. Sometimes you need places to walk; sometimes you want a yard; sometimes you need to be close to work so you can get home for 7:00 bedtime.
posted by xo at 10:04 AM on August 11, 2011 [1 favorite]
I kind of feel like the "laws" governing families and work and real estate are being rewritten daily. Things just aren't working the way they worked for our parents. For jobs it's all about mobility and expandability. Real estate is *so* uncertain. Our parents in general had more stability, some promise of funds in retirement and saw their real estate values rise over time. I see that you have a job (for a year, that's good) and that you have a stable relationship. He works, too, no? If renting is cheaper than owning in your area, you ought to have extra money to either save for: taking time off with the baby, traveling, a down payment on a house, or a rainy day fund. Or, ideally, a combination of all those things.
We've just had a baby and we've done more traveling in the past year and have more upcoming than we've done in five years. It's different, of course, in many ways. But, it can be done. I'll tell you what, though, I sure wish I didn't have this mortgage. But then, our mortgage was secured when things were booming (ie: more expensive than if we bought now).
If I were in your shoes? Excel. Spreadsheet. Start working the numbers. And do start the prep of being ready for baby -- talk to your doctor, take vitamins, etc. A good idea anyway just in case an "accident" happens.
Babies cost both more and less than you think. There is a lot of expense but you tend to be cutting back on expenses at the same time. And if you work the consignment shops and your network of friends/relatives who have baby stuff to get rid of you can coast for a long while without huge outlays of cash. Also, being in the city with a baby is great. You're less likely to get isolated than if you were in some suburb with an infant. When the kid gets near school age and is running around the neighborhood, your priorities may change.
But, anyway, focus on doing the ground work for having the kind of life you want to have. Hopefully that'll stave off the babymaker for awhile. And then when you're ready you'll know it. Just know this: no matter what, it's a roller coaster.
posted by amanda at 10:18 AM on August 11, 2011
We've just had a baby and we've done more traveling in the past year and have more upcoming than we've done in five years. It's different, of course, in many ways. But, it can be done. I'll tell you what, though, I sure wish I didn't have this mortgage. But then, our mortgage was secured when things were booming (ie: more expensive than if we bought now).
If I were in your shoes? Excel. Spreadsheet. Start working the numbers. And do start the prep of being ready for baby -- talk to your doctor, take vitamins, etc. A good idea anyway just in case an "accident" happens.
Babies cost both more and less than you think. There is a lot of expense but you tend to be cutting back on expenses at the same time. And if you work the consignment shops and your network of friends/relatives who have baby stuff to get rid of you can coast for a long while without huge outlays of cash. Also, being in the city with a baby is great. You're less likely to get isolated than if you were in some suburb with an infant. When the kid gets near school age and is running around the neighborhood, your priorities may change.
But, anyway, focus on doing the ground work for having the kind of life you want to have. Hopefully that'll stave off the babymaker for awhile. And then when you're ready you'll know it. Just know this: no matter what, it's a roller coaster.
posted by amanda at 10:18 AM on August 11, 2011
If you wait until you're "ready" to have kids, you'll never have them. Get jiggy with it and pop one out. You'll still be young enough as an empty nester for the fun you want to have now, plus you'll be better off.
(This coming from a recent empty nester that had my kids back in the 80s.)
posted by Doohickie at 10:22 AM on August 11, 2011 [2 favorites]
(This coming from a recent empty nester that had my kids back in the 80s.)
posted by Doohickie at 10:22 AM on August 11, 2011 [2 favorites]
Response by poster: As counter-intuitive as it sounds, I know we shouldn't wait until we're ready because I don't think we'll ever really be ready. At the same time, I don't see any harm in waiting a little longer. I know everyone is different but the women in my family are aggressively fertile. And while my husband and I would like to have kids, or at least one kid, the old-fashioned way, I think we're both okay with adopting (though I realize that's an entirely different can of worms).
posted by kat518 at 11:10 AM on August 11, 2011
posted by kat518 at 11:10 AM on August 11, 2011
There's totally no harm in waiting longer. There's really no rush. You have plenty of fertile years ahead. I think if you were in my generation you wouldn't even be feeling the hurry right now - it's just that a lot of people your age are starting families younger again.
But I do think your feelings about having to have a house are not coming from a rational place. There's a huge difference between not owning a home and not having somewhere to live. A vast, vast difference that leaves an enormous and wonderful safety zone that, actually, most Americans occupy.
You should also think about what home ownership would mean for your life, especially in this economy. There's quite a bit of reporting out there suggesting that home ownership will never again be the solid vehicle for savings it once represented. There are many people who pushed themselves to buy a house only to find that they are still facing housing insecurity because of their inability to pay the mortgage and the startling depreciation of the house. Now, there's a housing decision that would really put your family and financial future at risk. Owning also means you have to commit to a particular community and its geography for the long haul, and while you can get out of a lease in a month or a year, you often can't get out of a house anywhere near that quickly when a job or family illness changes your priorities for where you want to live.
Meanwhile, renting lets you
-Stay mobile in your career, remaining flexible enough to move for great job opportunities or schooling resources
-Avoid the inevitable, high, and unpredictable costs of home maintenance. One of my friends exhausted all her savings - every dime - stretching to buy a new house. First week in, furnace blew. $5000K.
-Live in a place of a quality you could probably not afford to own
-Invest in vehicles which are more stable and/or perform better than real estate in the near and far terms
-You don't need to either be handy yourself, buy tools and supplies, or pay for tradespeople when something breaks. You just call the landlord.
-No property taxes
-No homeowner's insurance
-No loss of equity or even any need to worry about interest rates
-No risk of foreclosure or threat of personal bankruptcy if you suddenly couldn't pay
-No temptation to refinance the home for ready cash, going further into debt
I know many, many parents who do not own their homes. My own parents did not own until I was 10, when they purchase a home at a cut rate from a family member. We lived in some wonderful places that were very formative for my entire life and career choices. We lived in one home 4 blocks from the beach - could never have afforded to buy there. What a treat. We moved 4 times, upgrades each time - were never stuck in a too-small house with too-old amenities. We could move up when incomes went up. Rethink it!
posted by Miko at 11:45 AM on August 11, 2011 [5 favorites]
But I do think your feelings about having to have a house are not coming from a rational place. There's a huge difference between not owning a home and not having somewhere to live. A vast, vast difference that leaves an enormous and wonderful safety zone that, actually, most Americans occupy.
You should also think about what home ownership would mean for your life, especially in this economy. There's quite a bit of reporting out there suggesting that home ownership will never again be the solid vehicle for savings it once represented. There are many people who pushed themselves to buy a house only to find that they are still facing housing insecurity because of their inability to pay the mortgage and the startling depreciation of the house. Now, there's a housing decision that would really put your family and financial future at risk. Owning also means you have to commit to a particular community and its geography for the long haul, and while you can get out of a lease in a month or a year, you often can't get out of a house anywhere near that quickly when a job or family illness changes your priorities for where you want to live.
Meanwhile, renting lets you
-Stay mobile in your career, remaining flexible enough to move for great job opportunities or schooling resources
-Avoid the inevitable, high, and unpredictable costs of home maintenance. One of my friends exhausted all her savings - every dime - stretching to buy a new house. First week in, furnace blew. $5000K.
-Live in a place of a quality you could probably not afford to own
-Invest in vehicles which are more stable and/or perform better than real estate in the near and far terms
-You don't need to either be handy yourself, buy tools and supplies, or pay for tradespeople when something breaks. You just call the landlord.
-No property taxes
-No homeowner's insurance
-No loss of equity or even any need to worry about interest rates
-No risk of foreclosure or threat of personal bankruptcy if you suddenly couldn't pay
-No temptation to refinance the home for ready cash, going further into debt
I know many, many parents who do not own their homes. My own parents did not own until I was 10, when they purchase a home at a cut rate from a family member. We lived in some wonderful places that were very formative for my entire life and career choices. We lived in one home 4 blocks from the beach - could never have afforded to buy there. What a treat. We moved 4 times, upgrades each time - were never stuck in a too-small house with too-old amenities. We could move up when incomes went up. Rethink it!
posted by Miko at 11:45 AM on August 11, 2011 [5 favorites]
Seeing him struggle to figure out what to put as an address on law school application forms kind of stuck with me and I remember thinking that I wanted to own a place before having a kid because I don't want the kid to ever feel like it doesn't have a home.
I lived in 4 houses (5 if you count infancy) before going off to college and my parents moved again while I was at college. It was quite amusing to me that I had lived at my "current address" longer than my parents had at my "permanent address" when I was filling out grad school applications. I never once felt like I didn't have a home, because wherever my loving, welcoming family was was my home. Whether that was in the home my parents owned while I was in elementary school, or the slightly dodgy rental they had while I was in high school, or the rather luxurious apartment they had in Buenos Aires when my Mom got transferred there for work.
My wife and I have traveled more since our daughter was born (a surprise pregnancy that began while we were living in "Married Student Housing" while I was in grad school) than we ever did before she came along, and have had dozens of adventures and crazy life changing events all while dragging our awesome little kid along for the ride. She is adaptable, easy to get along with, up for a challenge, and adventurous -- all things I'm not sure she would have been had our life been more stable and boring while she was growing up.
posted by Rock Steady at 11:47 AM on August 11, 2011
I lived in 4 houses (5 if you count infancy) before going off to college and my parents moved again while I was at college. It was quite amusing to me that I had lived at my "current address" longer than my parents had at my "permanent address" when I was filling out grad school applications. I never once felt like I didn't have a home, because wherever my loving, welcoming family was was my home. Whether that was in the home my parents owned while I was in elementary school, or the slightly dodgy rental they had while I was in high school, or the rather luxurious apartment they had in Buenos Aires when my Mom got transferred there for work.
My wife and I have traveled more since our daughter was born (a surprise pregnancy that began while we were living in "Married Student Housing" while I was in grad school) than we ever did before she came along, and have had dozens of adventures and crazy life changing events all while dragging our awesome little kid along for the ride. She is adaptable, easy to get along with, up for a challenge, and adventurous -- all things I'm not sure she would have been had our life been more stable and boring while she was growing up.
posted by Rock Steady at 11:47 AM on August 11, 2011
Oh, one more thing - if you are feeling the hurry because of the way you see other people your age living ("this is a kid's house") -- just don't. That's a total fool's game, and if you play it, your whole life will make you miserable, as you will never quite measure up to what you are imagining the most 'together' people do and have. Whenever you make an assumption about how you "should" be living at whatever life stage you're in, look around you and identify counterexamples. They're usually not hard to find. There are a lot of ways to live and be happy, and a lot of happy families that develop in ways that are not in perfect sync with what looks like the magazine-living ideal.
posted by Miko at 11:48 AM on August 11, 2011 [3 favorites]
posted by Miko at 11:48 AM on August 11, 2011 [3 favorites]
Miko, I have to strongly disagree about having years to wait. A family history of fertility is great, but not reliable. Now, she has a 75% chance of getting pregnant within a year. That starts dropping steadily and is less than 50% in a decade, with a lot higher risk of miscarriages and birth defects. Fertility treatment looks easy in the media, but it's exhausting and expensive. Secondary infertility is also a lot higher than most people imagine.
If she wants to have more than one child with a couple of years difference, she's going to have a much easier time statistically this decade than the next decade. Her partner's age also matters.
Adoption isn't easier. It's different and carries its own complications and takes years. Again, if they want to have more than two children, they need to start earlier.
We adopted, and I'm now unexpectedly pregnant as well. As a result, I've spent a lot of time around infertile and low-fertility parents. People don't want to talk about the misery, and the media focuses on happy ever-after stories like a woman in her late 40s who has twins, so people assume it's easy to have a family late in life. The numbers are harsh.
Kat518 may be one of the lucky minority who easily conceive and have late fertility. But making plans around that without checking is risky, especially if you want more than 1 or 2 children.
posted by viggorlijah at 1:00 PM on August 11, 2011 [1 favorite]
If she wants to have more than one child with a couple of years difference, she's going to have a much easier time statistically this decade than the next decade. Her partner's age also matters.
Adoption isn't easier. It's different and carries its own complications and takes years. Again, if they want to have more than two children, they need to start earlier.
We adopted, and I'm now unexpectedly pregnant as well. As a result, I've spent a lot of time around infertile and low-fertility parents. People don't want to talk about the misery, and the media focuses on happy ever-after stories like a woman in her late 40s who has twins, so people assume it's easy to have a family late in life. The numbers are harsh.
Kat518 may be one of the lucky minority who easily conceive and have late fertility. But making plans around that without checking is risky, especially if you want more than 1 or 2 children.
posted by viggorlijah at 1:00 PM on August 11, 2011 [1 favorite]
Response by poster: My perspective regarding housing has been that it's much better to buy when the time is right for us than letting external factors - interest rates, housing prices, etc. - determine it. I'm a Suze Orman fan and since the financial crisis, she's been talking about "the new normal" wherein security and being able to sleep at night is much more important than killing yourself to own a home. I believe that a house is where you live, not where you keep your savings.
That said, we currently live in Washington, DC which was hit by the financial crisis but not as hard as the rest of the country. There will always be jobs and demand for housing here. Our current neighborhood, which we love, is in a state of flux with housing units here and there that are priced significantly (in my opinion) under market value. We both have great credit, our families have both offered down payment assistance, and interest rates will almost certainly never be this low again. So those are some of the reasons I'm giving it some thought.
viggorlijah, I really hope you didn't take my statements regarding adoption to mean that I thought adoption was easier. Three of my cousins are adopted and it's something I've thought about though I haven't explored much.
Similarly, Rock Steady, I hope you didn't take my statements regarding my ex-boyfriend's lack of "permanent" domicile to imply that I think not owning a home means not having a home. My ex's dad left when his mom was pregnant and he was an only child. They lived in several different places, sometimes with the person she was seeing at the time, including when we were seeing each other. It made me sad knowing he wasn't sure where he was going to live after graduation because he couldn't stay with his mom for long. But it made me sadder when I realized he was a jerk.
posted by kat518 at 1:45 PM on August 11, 2011
That said, we currently live in Washington, DC which was hit by the financial crisis but not as hard as the rest of the country. There will always be jobs and demand for housing here. Our current neighborhood, which we love, is in a state of flux with housing units here and there that are priced significantly (in my opinion) under market value. We both have great credit, our families have both offered down payment assistance, and interest rates will almost certainly never be this low again. So those are some of the reasons I'm giving it some thought.
viggorlijah, I really hope you didn't take my statements regarding adoption to mean that I thought adoption was easier. Three of my cousins are adopted and it's something I've thought about though I haven't explored much.
Similarly, Rock Steady, I hope you didn't take my statements regarding my ex-boyfriend's lack of "permanent" domicile to imply that I think not owning a home means not having a home. My ex's dad left when his mom was pregnant and he was an only child. They lived in several different places, sometimes with the person she was seeing at the time, including when we were seeing each other. It made me sad knowing he wasn't sure where he was going to live after graduation because he couldn't stay with his mom for long. But it made me sadder when I realized he was a jerk.
posted by kat518 at 1:45 PM on August 11, 2011
It won't kill your baby to be in an apartment for a few years. Renting isn't THAT bad, apartment living isn't that bad. The kid won't even remember the first few years of life! You've got time on this house thing if that's the big holdup.
I'd also like to say that this quote:
It's like when you're a little kid and you see grown-ups getting mail and you think, I like mail! I want mail! Then you grow up and start getting mail and find that it's almost all bills and very few birthday cards from your grandparents.
--is freaking awesome. That really does sum up a lot of how it feels to not be in lockstep with everyone else's life choices that are perfectly on schedule.
posted by jenfullmoon at 2:02 PM on August 11, 2011
I'd also like to say that this quote:
It's like when you're a little kid and you see grown-ups getting mail and you think, I like mail! I want mail! Then you grow up and start getting mail and find that it's almost all bills and very few birthday cards from your grandparents.
--is freaking awesome. That really does sum up a lot of how it feels to not be in lockstep with everyone else's life choices that are perfectly on schedule.
posted by jenfullmoon at 2:02 PM on August 11, 2011
Mrs. Frogs and I were renting when we had our tadpole. He's nearly two and a half now. We're still renting. Bigger house, but renting. Looking to buy, in the near future, but nothing wrong with a rental - it's still a home.
We were 35 when she finally was ready (well, she was 35 - I was 34, we were both 35 when he was born). You have some time still. Give yourself a long-term plan to get ready for things. Have some fun, build up some time off, start a nest egg, etc.
It's an adventure, for sure.
posted by caution live frogs at 2:32 PM on August 11, 2011
We were 35 when she finally was ready (well, she was 35 - I was 34, we were both 35 when he was born). You have some time still. Give yourself a long-term plan to get ready for things. Have some fun, build up some time off, start a nest egg, etc.
It's an adventure, for sure.
posted by caution live frogs at 2:32 PM on August 11, 2011
OK, then, it sounds like you're in a fabulous position to buy a house. You want to, you believe in it, it's a good time to buy, and you have the money. You require this as a first step to having a family.
So when you say this "doesn't feel right," what about it doesn't feel right? Because I see you marshalling a lot of reasons why this is all the clear and right thing to do right now. So what's holding you back? Why not move forward?
Whatever the answer to that is is probably also the answer to your question.
posted by Miko at 3:44 PM on August 11, 2011 [2 favorites]
So when you say this "doesn't feel right," what about it doesn't feel right? Because I see you marshalling a lot of reasons why this is all the clear and right thing to do right now. So what's holding you back? Why not move forward?
Whatever the answer to that is is probably also the answer to your question.
posted by Miko at 3:44 PM on August 11, 2011 [2 favorites]
On fertility, when you limit the period of pregnancy to the first year, the numbers are scary. But when you look it across a range of years, the picture improves:
I don't contest that the biological clock is real and should be factored into planning, and expectations should be realistic. But I do think that it's easy to go into a panic when you hear this information, even before it's necessary, and one of the worst reasons I can imagine to get pregnant is because you're afraid this will be your only chance.
posted by Miko at 3:48 PM on August 11, 2011
At age 30, 75% will get pregnant within one year, and 91% within four years.
At age 35, 66% will get pregnant within one year, and 84% within four years.
At age 40, 44% will get pregnant within one year, and 64% within four years.
I don't contest that the biological clock is real and should be factored into planning, and expectations should be realistic. But I do think that it's easy to go into a panic when you hear this information, even before it's necessary, and one of the worst reasons I can imagine to get pregnant is because you're afraid this will be your only chance.
posted by Miko at 3:48 PM on August 11, 2011
I say try for the kid sooner rather than later. It's not like you stop taking BC and the next day you are pregnant. Also, home ownership can limit adventures more than a baby. You can travel with a baby, but not if all your money is going to a mortgage. Also you might know better what you want in a house once you've been parents for a bit.
Also, moving into a house when you are 3 or 4 can still feel like a forever home. My 6 year old doesn't remember the house he moved from at age 2.
Would it be awful if I said that your biological clock may be on to something? Start now and it will be nine months at least til baby, and probably at least a year.
posted by bluedaisy at 6:48 PM on August 11, 2011 [1 favorite]
Also, moving into a house when you are 3 or 4 can still feel like a forever home. My 6 year old doesn't remember the house he moved from at age 2.
Would it be awful if I said that your biological clock may be on to something? Start now and it will be nine months at least til baby, and probably at least a year.
posted by bluedaisy at 6:48 PM on August 11, 2011 [1 favorite]
Oops! Just saw your PS. Maybe it would help to remember that most pregnancies aren't planned? Or that you can't actually plan all of this stuff exactly? There is not a specific order to life.
Also, cheap, roomy, and great location: I wouldn't abandon the awesome stuff because of a sense that babies should only be born to homeowners.
Think through the worst case scenarios. Sounds like stuff is mostly good in your life. Enjoy that, remembering that you might be moving into a different stage of life in the next few years.
posted by bluedaisy at 8:27 PM on August 11, 2011 [1 favorite]
Also, cheap, roomy, and great location: I wouldn't abandon the awesome stuff because of a sense that babies should only be born to homeowners.
Think through the worst case scenarios. Sounds like stuff is mostly good in your life. Enjoy that, remembering that you might be moving into a different stage of life in the next few years.
posted by bluedaisy at 8:27 PM on August 11, 2011 [1 favorite]
This thread is closed to new comments.
(I am not suggesting 'dog' because dogs are more work and dog + newborn looks difficult; however, lots of people manage...)
posted by kmennie at 7:21 AM on August 11, 2011