Do I have laptop repair trust issues?
June 9, 2011 3:36 PM Subscribe
I am not a computer repair person, and apparently, don't know if I trust those who are.
I recently had a problem with the frame around the screen of my laptop (Dell Inspiron, about 5 years old). I took it to a shop to be repaired, and while there I mentioned that the computer was running a bit slowly, and asked if they could also install more RAM (if that might make it run faster). The technician said yes, and for the same price of installing the RAM, he would give it their tune up service.
This morning they ring me, and tell me that while running Scan Disk (I don't know if they mean the process or the specific software), bad sectors were identified, and usually the good sectors can still run Windows, but that for some reason that didn't work. Now the computer hard drive has failed, all blue screen of death, and the technician is saying that not only do I need a new hard drive, but also he can only recover 80-90% of the data, and I will have to pay for the recovery. I said, "but it worked when I gave it to you."
He's quoting just under 200 euro to replace the hard drive, recover the data, reinstall Windows, put in the RAM, and fix the frame.
Any thoughts on whether that seems reasonable (the problems and/or the price)? Are there any questions I should ask to confirm this is all on the up-and-up, and that all the hardware/services are needed?
This morning they ring me, and tell me that while running Scan Disk (I don't know if they mean the process or the specific software), bad sectors were identified, and usually the good sectors can still run Windows, but that for some reason that didn't work. Now the computer hard drive has failed, all blue screen of death, and the technician is saying that not only do I need a new hard drive, but also he can only recover 80-90% of the data, and I will have to pay for the recovery. I said, "but it worked when I gave it to you."
He's quoting just under 200 euro to replace the hard drive, recover the data, reinstall Windows, put in the RAM, and fix the frame.
Any thoughts on whether that seems reasonable (the problems and/or the price)? Are there any questions I should ask to confirm this is all on the up-and-up, and that all the hardware/services are needed?
Get your laptop back and take it someone you can trust.
posted by rdr at 3:51 PM on June 9, 2011 [2 favorites]
posted by rdr at 3:51 PM on June 9, 2011 [2 favorites]
Oh, followup, I may have been able to reformat the drive, but with all the errors and how cheap HDs are, it would make more sense to buy a new HD, but for 200 euro ~ 300 US dollars, you have to seriously think if its worth fixing and just getting a new PC.
posted by edman at 3:52 PM on June 9, 2011
posted by edman at 3:52 PM on June 9, 2011
It is hard to say what happened or what the motivations of the tech were/are, but more than likely the hard drive has been failing for a while, and that's why it was slow. Running scan disk (chkdsk) verifies the files on the drive, and tries to find bad sectors. You want to do this, because data that is on a bad sector is gone, or on its way to being gone.
Unless the tech is just lying to you, the chain of events you describe is plausible.
(This is why you back up your data.)
posted by gjc at 3:58 PM on June 9, 2011
Unless the tech is just lying to you, the chain of events you describe is plausible.
(This is why you back up your data.)
posted by gjc at 3:58 PM on June 9, 2011
It's really impossible to say. Dell's Inspiron is a low-end company's low-end entry into a low-end segment of the laptop market, so it's entirely possible that after five years you handed him a laptop on the verge of death, and he had the misfortune of holding it when it took the last step. Can't really blame him for that.
Part of the problem is that any hard drive made in the last five years is designed to silently recover from bad sectors, so unless you're checking the SMART reports regularly, you'll have no warning until the drive just gives up. The way this works is, when a hard drive is sold as X GB, it's actually manufactured with X+Y GB, where the additional Y is reserved as a hot-swap. When the drive detects bad sectors among the original X GB, it'll relocate those sectors' data into the reserved region. As long as there are unused sectors in the reserved region, everything will look fine. Once the reserved region is fully committed, you'll lose data with each additional bad sector.
On the other hand, it is also entirely possible that this technician is just incompetent and/or dishonest. I've had technicians try to tell me they could only partition my disk to within a few GB of the specified plan, or that they would have to charge extra for formatting to an "unusual" filesystem like reiserfs.
I can't comment on the price because I don't know the going rates in your area. I will say this, though: almost all of the service fee is for the technician's labor, which is as it should be. You can get the parts for a few dozen euro. If you have a good friend who can do the labor for you, this is a good time to visit him. (But then do understand that he's giving you several hours of his life, and it would be only polite for you to return the favor at some point.)
posted by d. z. wang at 4:00 PM on June 9, 2011 [1 favorite]
Part of the problem is that any hard drive made in the last five years is designed to silently recover from bad sectors, so unless you're checking the SMART reports regularly, you'll have no warning until the drive just gives up. The way this works is, when a hard drive is sold as X GB, it's actually manufactured with X+Y GB, where the additional Y is reserved as a hot-swap. When the drive detects bad sectors among the original X GB, it'll relocate those sectors' data into the reserved region. As long as there are unused sectors in the reserved region, everything will look fine. Once the reserved region is fully committed, you'll lose data with each additional bad sector.
On the other hand, it is also entirely possible that this technician is just incompetent and/or dishonest. I've had technicians try to tell me they could only partition my disk to within a few GB of the specified plan, or that they would have to charge extra for formatting to an "unusual" filesystem like reiserfs.
I can't comment on the price because I don't know the going rates in your area. I will say this, though: almost all of the service fee is for the technician's labor, which is as it should be. You can get the parts for a few dozen euro. If you have a good friend who can do the labor for you, this is a good time to visit him. (But then do understand that he's giving you several hours of his life, and it would be only polite for you to return the favor at some point.)
posted by d. z. wang at 4:00 PM on June 9, 2011 [1 favorite]
Laptop repair is kind of like the wild west -- there are plenty of amazing technicians, mediocre ones, and some that absolutely don't know what they are doing. So basically it's like finding a trustworthy car mechanic. There are good ones out there, but it's tough without knowing the skills or trusted friends yourself.
That being said, try to protect yourself better next time by backing up all your data before repair. What the technician did sucked (drive failing after a scan disk), but it happens and was not malicious at all.
posted by xtine at 4:01 PM on June 9, 2011
That being said, try to protect yourself better next time by backing up all your data before repair. What the technician did sucked (drive failing after a scan disk), but it happens and was not malicious at all.
posted by xtine at 4:01 PM on June 9, 2011
Response by poster: Thanks for the answers so far! Just to clarify, I'm not so concerned about the data recovery, as the laptop is not my primary one, but just the combined cost, services, etc.
posted by trixie_bee at 4:12 PM on June 9, 2011
posted by trixie_bee at 4:12 PM on June 9, 2011
This morning they ring me, and tell me that while running Scan Disk (I don't know if they mean the process or the specific software), bad sectors were identified, and usually the good sectors can still run Windows, but that for some reason that didn't work. Now the computer hard drive has failed, all blue screen of death, and the technician is saying that not only do I need a new hard drive, but also he can only recover 80-90% of the data, and I will have to pay for the recovery. I said, "but it worked when I gave it to you."
If he is getting the BSOD then the hard drive didn't fail. It sounds like the technician used scandisk to *repair* bad sectors and that hosed the windows install i.e. the technician screwed up.
It may very well cost 200 euro to fix this but I would have someone else do it.
posted by ennui.bz at 4:14 PM on June 9, 2011 [1 favorite]
If he is getting the BSOD then the hard drive didn't fail. It sounds like the technician used scandisk to *repair* bad sectors and that hosed the windows install i.e. the technician screwed up.
It may very well cost 200 euro to fix this but I would have someone else do it.
posted by ennui.bz at 4:14 PM on June 9, 2011 [1 favorite]
I worked in repair and upgrade for a large, now defunct, retailer, and I did not get paid based on the amount of work I did nor on the sale of any upgrade items. I was paid by the hour, and I was happy to not find anything wrong, since that meant I would be able to leave on time. That may not be the case with all shops. That being said, yes, finding one issue can lead to a cascade that uncovers other issues.
posted by brownrd at 4:16 PM on June 9, 2011
posted by brownrd at 4:16 PM on June 9, 2011
I wouldn't worry about recovering the system in that case...if you still have your factory cds, simply get a replacement HD. (ask them what they charge, but shop around too...drives are cheap and easy to install)
Having been a tech myself for almost 20 years, the series of events you described are perfectly normal. The life of a typical drive is around 5 years...some last longer, some not so much...many decide to develop bad sectors and some go out like lightbulbs. Your tech probably noticed file corruption and tried to repair it, not knowing the drive was failing. This happens...but you shouldn't feel obligated to pay for more work...nor feel they did wrong. Drives simply fail, as well as any data form...which is why backups are often recommended for important files.
Five years is a good amount of time to get out of a PC. Might be a good time to compare the cost of repair with a newer faster PC with a warranty.
posted by samsara at 4:25 PM on June 9, 2011
Having been a tech myself for almost 20 years, the series of events you described are perfectly normal. The life of a typical drive is around 5 years...some last longer, some not so much...many decide to develop bad sectors and some go out like lightbulbs. Your tech probably noticed file corruption and tried to repair it, not knowing the drive was failing. This happens...but you shouldn't feel obligated to pay for more work...nor feel they did wrong. Drives simply fail, as well as any data form...which is why backups are often recommended for important files.
Five years is a good amount of time to get out of a PC. Might be a good time to compare the cost of repair with a newer faster PC with a warranty.
posted by samsara at 4:25 PM on June 9, 2011
Your tech probably noticed file corruption and tried to repair it, not knowing the drive was failing.
Again, if he is getting blue screens of death, the drive hasn't failed, it's just the windows installation has gotten corrupted. Now. the drive was failing, but if it had failed the machine wouldn't have gotten past bios.
(also, it's not worth putting 200 euro into that machine and you may very well able to find someone to recover the hard drive for cheaper than 200 euro... shop around)
posted by ennui.bz at 4:27 PM on June 9, 2011
Again, if he is getting blue screens of death, the drive hasn't failed, it's just the windows installation has gotten corrupted. Now. the drive was failing, but if it had failed the machine wouldn't have gotten past bios.
(also, it's not worth putting 200 euro into that machine and you may very well able to find someone to recover the hard drive for cheaper than 200 euro... shop around)
posted by ennui.bz at 4:27 PM on June 9, 2011
I got that, however a drive developing bad sectors has to be replaced. We also don't know where those bad sectors are...there could be a huge block of them right overtop his documents that has gone unnoticed until now. (only recently noticed when the bad sectors got to the OS files). The BSOD could be just a corrupt filesystem like you're saying...but I'm inclined to believe it's bad sectors that caused the corruption (eg. Hardware problem with the platters themselves)
With bad sectors and its age, the drive definitely needs to go...but dont pay for recovery if theres nothing on it worth keeping...
posted by samsara at 4:37 PM on June 9, 2011
With bad sectors and its age, the drive definitely needs to go...but dont pay for recovery if theres nothing on it worth keeping...
posted by samsara at 4:37 PM on June 9, 2011
As someone who used to be a computer tech, don't ever go for any sort of "tune up" services. This usually involves "fixing" something that ain't broke. I swear to got more problems were caused by doing these things than were fixed.
Tune it up yourself or have a trusted friend to do it. A lot of techs have no idea what they're doing beyond pressing "start" and "fix all."
Better yet, if it's Windows, just wipe out everything once a year and start fresh.
That all said, I've also been in situations where, once you touch something, something else fails. It's one of the worst situations to be in as a tech because you're the last guy to touch it, so you get the blame. Most techs don't like to call you with a problem you didn't come in with. It's impossible to say what happened here.
posted by bondcliff at 5:20 PM on June 9, 2011
Tune it up yourself or have a trusted friend to do it. A lot of techs have no idea what they're doing beyond pressing "start" and "fix all."
Better yet, if it's Windows, just wipe out everything once a year and start fresh.
That all said, I've also been in situations where, once you touch something, something else fails. It's one of the worst situations to be in as a tech because you're the last guy to touch it, so you get the blame. Most techs don't like to call you with a problem you didn't come in with. It's impossible to say what happened here.
posted by bondcliff at 5:20 PM on June 9, 2011
Data recovery is one of the most expensive things as it's something of a black art, it can get as expensive as you're willing to pay. Since you're not worried about that, though, tell them not to touch it and just ship it home. Even the least technical person can swap in a new hard drive, and you can chose your cost based simply on parts/what size of drive you want and do it yourself.
posted by anaelith at 5:23 PM on June 9, 2011
posted by anaelith at 5:23 PM on June 9, 2011
If you buy a $10 USB hard drive adapter, you will be able to access the disk and attempt the recovery yourself at a later point while moving forward with either a new hard drive or a new computer. Regarding the price you were quoted, here in Canada you can buy 750gb laptop hard drive for about $100, 4 gb laptop RAM for under $100... Add an hour or two of their time for $90 and you get to about 200 euro.
posted by HLD at 5:52 PM on June 9, 2011
posted by HLD at 5:52 PM on June 9, 2011
Just buy the harddrive and RAM yourself. Those are easy user replaceable items even for someone who has never done it. It'll probably save you around 100euro alone on labor charges.
Otherwise, that all sounds normal. Stuff like that just happens.
posted by zephyr_words at 6:25 PM on June 9, 2011
Otherwise, that all sounds normal. Stuff like that just happens.
posted by zephyr_words at 6:25 PM on June 9, 2011
I'd think long and hard about how much money you want to put onto a five year old laptop. if you don't need to recover the data putting that 200 euros towards a new(er) machine might be more practical.
posted by 6550 at 7:26 PM on June 9, 2011
posted by 6550 at 7:26 PM on June 9, 2011
Sounds like some level of inexperience - when drive start to visibly show bad sectors, the appropriate procedure is to clone the entire drive, padding out bad sectors with zeros, to a new one (or via an image) ASAP - as a drive failing to the point of showing actual read errors will likely be damaging itself more the longer it runs.
The ram thing was probably just a sales opportunity -it probably would have helped, but the failing disk was the issue.
Those need to be dealt with by knowledgeable people or professional data recovery people.
And keep backups. This can't be overstated.
posted by TravellingDen at 10:38 PM on June 9, 2011
The ram thing was probably just a sales opportunity -it probably would have helped, but the failing disk was the issue.
Those need to be dealt with by knowledgeable people or professional data recovery people.
And keep backups. This can't be overstated.
posted by TravellingDen at 10:38 PM on June 9, 2011
Again, if he is getting blue screens of death, the drive hasn't failed, it's just the windows installation has gotten corrupted. Now. the drive was failing, but if it had failed the machine wouldn't have gotten past bios.
A failed hard drive is one that doesn't return the data that you have put on it. That doesn't necessarily mean that the OS won't start. One unrecoverable bad sector is a failed hard drive.
A hard drive can be bad, and still mostly work. Just like all kinds of things. An LCD with a blob of missing display in the corner has failed, but it can still be usable.
posted by gjc at 6:02 AM on June 10, 2011
A failed hard drive is one that doesn't return the data that you have put on it. That doesn't necessarily mean that the OS won't start. One unrecoverable bad sector is a failed hard drive.
A hard drive can be bad, and still mostly work. Just like all kinds of things. An LCD with a blob of missing display in the corner has failed, but it can still be usable.
posted by gjc at 6:02 AM on June 10, 2011
I think there's a bigger issue here.
You're looking at spending €200 on a five-year-old low-end laptop. Even if the quote is reasonable, there's virtually no situation where sinking that kind of money into that kind of machine is going to be the best choice. Something else will go wrong before too long, and you'll be right back where you started, but poorer.
Therefore, I would consider the following:
:: Tell them to stop working on your laptop. If they haven't put the RAM in, cancel the order immediately. Pick up your laptop and try to negotiate them down as low as you can, since they're returning a messed-up machine.
:: Since you don't really care about the data, consider it lost.
:: Can you afford a new machine? A quick look at the Dell Ireland website shows that a new 15" Inspiron starts from €349.
:: Otherwise, you could try reinstalling Windows on your current laptop, but I agree with other posters that it sounds like the HD is dying. If money is tight right now, there's other options: borrowing an old laptop from a friend, buying refurbished instead of new, etc.
Five years is a pretty good innings for a laptop.
posted by Georgina at 8:59 AM on June 10, 2011
You're looking at spending €200 on a five-year-old low-end laptop. Even if the quote is reasonable, there's virtually no situation where sinking that kind of money into that kind of machine is going to be the best choice. Something else will go wrong before too long, and you'll be right back where you started, but poorer.
Therefore, I would consider the following:
:: Tell them to stop working on your laptop. If they haven't put the RAM in, cancel the order immediately. Pick up your laptop and try to negotiate them down as low as you can, since they're returning a messed-up machine.
:: Since you don't really care about the data, consider it lost.
:: Can you afford a new machine? A quick look at the Dell Ireland website shows that a new 15" Inspiron starts from €349.
:: Otherwise, you could try reinstalling Windows on your current laptop, but I agree with other posters that it sounds like the HD is dying. If money is tight right now, there's other options: borrowing an old laptop from a friend, buying refurbished instead of new, etc.
Five years is a pretty good innings for a laptop.
posted by Georgina at 8:59 AM on June 10, 2011
Hard drives are more fickle than people think. It's not surprising that a drive scan made it finally give up the ghost.
Also: tune up? Don't pay for a "tune up". It's not a car. There's nothing they can do that you can't. You could have broken your own hard drive for free.
posted by chairface at 1:05 PM on June 10, 2011
Also: tune up? Don't pay for a "tune up". It's not a car. There's nothing they can do that you can't. You could have broken your own hard drive for free.
posted by chairface at 1:05 PM on June 10, 2011
This thread is closed to new comments.
So, not unreasonable/unrealistic.
posted by edman at 3:50 PM on June 9, 2011