Friends to lovers quandary.
June 9, 2011 2:29 PM Subscribe
Can you give me perspective on this friends to lovers situation?
I was friends with this guy for about seven months. We are both early 30’s. We weren’t great friends, but we hung out alone, had some nice talks, and things like that. I was attracted to him but was reluctant to do anything about it because the friendship was so nice and I did not want to spoil it. He did show a romantic interest in me, though, and I decided to go with it. I’ve never dated a friend, and was excited to do that. I felt a certain level of comfort right from the start that was great and couldn’t wait to get to know him more.
Our transition was not that graceful. There was a lot of awkwardness and weirdness. I figured, it’s new, and didn’t bother with analyzing it. Otherwise, we had a pretty nice time. He was withheld, though, more than I am used to. He was circumspect and cautious. I think, because we were friends first, I expected things to move really quickly and that wasn’t the case. I’m also just the sort of person that likes to wade right in. I didn’t say anything about my feelings, though, because it didn’t seem appropriate. I went with it and tried to be balanced.
After about a month, I got restless one night and showed a little more affection than I normally would have via text. It wasn’t super weird, it was just new. He responded by telling me in discussion the next day that he didn’t want to “date.” I became defensive and we decided to finish talking later. During that second conversation, we talked about where we were both coming from, but he maintained that he wanted to be friends. I was in denial and kept saying that wasn’t what I wanted. I suggested we back off, but he said he wanted the relationship to change, and he just wanted to be friends. He said he was open to dating in the future, though, and said he didn’t want to shut the door.
I was really bummed, hurt, annoyed for a few days. It did feel confusing. I took the “dating in the future” thing to be a write-off and just one of the things people say.
This happened recently, and now he is asking if I want to do things with him. He is making much more of an effort than he did before and has even gotten upset because I didn’t respond with complete enthusiasm. I am confused. On one hand, I see that he was understandably freaked out and really doesn’t want to shut the door. Our roles were a little too forced and it was strange. On the other hand, I feel like I’m being fucked with. Maybe both of these things are true.
Should I relax and just hang out with him as friends? I am open to that, and would really like to enjoy him, but I don't want to be stupid. Should I approach with optimistic caution, or just tell him to go away? How can I be free and easy, with no expectations, but also good boundaries? Have you been in a similar situation? It would be interesting to hear other stories.
One problem I’m having is about two years ago, I was dating a guy who did the same thing. He said he just wanted to be friends but wanted to hang out. I hung out with him, hoping he’d change his tune, and then he hooked up with someone else and it was pretty embarrassing. I don’t want that to be my touchstone, but I DON’T want that situation to happen EVER again. It was the worst romantic experience I’ve had.
I was friends with this guy for about seven months. We are both early 30’s. We weren’t great friends, but we hung out alone, had some nice talks, and things like that. I was attracted to him but was reluctant to do anything about it because the friendship was so nice and I did not want to spoil it. He did show a romantic interest in me, though, and I decided to go with it. I’ve never dated a friend, and was excited to do that. I felt a certain level of comfort right from the start that was great and couldn’t wait to get to know him more.
Our transition was not that graceful. There was a lot of awkwardness and weirdness. I figured, it’s new, and didn’t bother with analyzing it. Otherwise, we had a pretty nice time. He was withheld, though, more than I am used to. He was circumspect and cautious. I think, because we were friends first, I expected things to move really quickly and that wasn’t the case. I’m also just the sort of person that likes to wade right in. I didn’t say anything about my feelings, though, because it didn’t seem appropriate. I went with it and tried to be balanced.
After about a month, I got restless one night and showed a little more affection than I normally would have via text. It wasn’t super weird, it was just new. He responded by telling me in discussion the next day that he didn’t want to “date.” I became defensive and we decided to finish talking later. During that second conversation, we talked about where we were both coming from, but he maintained that he wanted to be friends. I was in denial and kept saying that wasn’t what I wanted. I suggested we back off, but he said he wanted the relationship to change, and he just wanted to be friends. He said he was open to dating in the future, though, and said he didn’t want to shut the door.
I was really bummed, hurt, annoyed for a few days. It did feel confusing. I took the “dating in the future” thing to be a write-off and just one of the things people say.
This happened recently, and now he is asking if I want to do things with him. He is making much more of an effort than he did before and has even gotten upset because I didn’t respond with complete enthusiasm. I am confused. On one hand, I see that he was understandably freaked out and really doesn’t want to shut the door. Our roles were a little too forced and it was strange. On the other hand, I feel like I’m being fucked with. Maybe both of these things are true.
Should I relax and just hang out with him as friends? I am open to that, and would really like to enjoy him, but I don't want to be stupid. Should I approach with optimistic caution, or just tell him to go away? How can I be free and easy, with no expectations, but also good boundaries? Have you been in a similar situation? It would be interesting to hear other stories.
One problem I’m having is about two years ago, I was dating a guy who did the same thing. He said he just wanted to be friends but wanted to hang out. I hung out with him, hoping he’d change his tune, and then he hooked up with someone else and it was pretty embarrassing. I don’t want that to be my touchstone, but I DON’T want that situation to happen EVER again. It was the worst romantic experience I’ve had.
He doesn't have is act together and you're too good for the kind of wishy washy crap he's doling out.
I could tell you why he's this way, but it is so boring I can't get up the energy. Suffice it to say he doesn't know himself very well. You need someone who is empowered enough to persue you because they really really like you. The guy you are currently asking about is too neurotic (and therefore selfish/self-absorbed) to create any sort of good relationship with.
The tip-offs were (a) reserved to the point you described it as withholding, (b) skittish about affection, (c) after breaking up with you, coming back for more. It's a classic pattern and he will repeat it in endless ways if you continue to even be friends with him. It's a way of making his problems everyone else's. Don't pick up the bait!
Stop being so nice and making excuses for this person. RUN.
posted by jbenben at 2:43 PM on June 9, 2011 [5 favorites]
I could tell you why he's this way, but it is so boring I can't get up the energy. Suffice it to say he doesn't know himself very well. You need someone who is empowered enough to persue you because they really really like you. The guy you are currently asking about is too neurotic (and therefore selfish/self-absorbed) to create any sort of good relationship with.
The tip-offs were (a) reserved to the point you described it as withholding, (b) skittish about affection, (c) after breaking up with you, coming back for more. It's a classic pattern and he will repeat it in endless ways if you continue to even be friends with him. It's a way of making his problems everyone else's. Don't pick up the bait!
Stop being so nice and making excuses for this person. RUN.
posted by jbenben at 2:43 PM on June 9, 2011 [5 favorites]
I was in denial and kept saying that wasn’t what I wanted.
This, just so you are aware, is the exact opposite of denial. That is knowing what you are looking for and saying as much.
posted by Uniformitarianism Now! at 2:46 PM on June 9, 2011 [1 favorite]
This, just so you are aware, is the exact opposite of denial. That is knowing what you are looking for and saying as much.
posted by Uniformitarianism Now! at 2:46 PM on June 9, 2011 [1 favorite]
I DON’T want that situation to happen EVER again. It was the worst romantic experience I’ve had.
Sounds like you'll be devastated if he ends up getting together with someone other than you, which, sorry to say, seems pretty likely considering how indecisive he sounds.
A lot of your description of the events is quite vague, so, as empath suggested, it's hard to answer this without being more familiar with the people or the situation. But the overall vibe I get from your question is that he's very erratic and you don't feel like the two of you are on the same page. If so, there's your answer. Move on.
posted by John Cohen at 2:48 PM on June 9, 2011
Sounds like you'll be devastated if he ends up getting together with someone other than you, which, sorry to say, seems pretty likely considering how indecisive he sounds.
A lot of your description of the events is quite vague, so, as empath suggested, it's hard to answer this without being more familiar with the people or the situation. But the overall vibe I get from your question is that he's very erratic and you don't feel like the two of you are on the same page. If so, there's your answer. Move on.
posted by John Cohen at 2:48 PM on June 9, 2011
I'm with empath. It sounds like an attempt to transition to casual sex where he doesn't have to worry about messy things like your feelings. This whole "I might want to date later so just wait around be available, and hey, why aren't you happy to hear from me?! I thought we were friends!" is really convenient while he scopes out other girls and uses you as a fallback. I hope I'm wrong but I doubt you'll ever get a straight answer.
posted by Jubey at 2:56 PM on June 9, 2011 [9 favorites]
posted by Jubey at 2:56 PM on June 9, 2011 [9 favorites]
He sounds like a tool. Fear not, there are awesome fellas out there who will jump at the opportunity to be with you and will treat you like a queen. None of this wishy-washy bullshit, just sweet, sweet lovin.
I was in a similar situation and then I met my kickass boyfriend five years ago tonight. Forgot about that other dude pretty fast.
posted by futureisunwritten at 2:58 PM on June 9, 2011 [4 favorites]
I was in a similar situation and then I met my kickass boyfriend five years ago tonight. Forgot about that other dude pretty fast.
posted by futureisunwritten at 2:58 PM on June 9, 2011 [4 favorites]
He sounds like - at best - he's conflicted about what he wants. He doesn't want to date you, but he doesn't want to lose your attention. Is this because he's messed up? Is it because he wants NSA sex only? (that's the reductionist answer.) Is it because he's kind of conflicted about dating but flattered by your attention? (that's what I'd go with.)
I'd say take a break from the friendship. If he's not a jerk, he'll be able to be friends in a normal enough way in a few months because he'll have gotten his emotions in order a bit. If he is a jerk, you will be well quit of him. Don't make plans with him, tell him you're too busy to hang out, etc.
I am honestly a bit confused by hook-up culture. This whole "we're having sex but if you say the wrong thing about dating or affection we'll stop having sex because we weren't really in any kind of a relationship" thing would drive me up the wall.
posted by Frowner at 3:02 PM on June 9, 2011 [6 favorites]
I'd say take a break from the friendship. If he's not a jerk, he'll be able to be friends in a normal enough way in a few months because he'll have gotten his emotions in order a bit. If he is a jerk, you will be well quit of him. Don't make plans with him, tell him you're too busy to hang out, etc.
I am honestly a bit confused by hook-up culture. This whole "we're having sex but if you say the wrong thing about dating or affection we'll stop having sex because we weren't really in any kind of a relationship" thing would drive me up the wall.
posted by Frowner at 3:02 PM on June 9, 2011 [6 favorites]
OP, reading that other folks thought you were vague is bugging me. Instead, I saw that you described him accurately, but then added your own explanationS for his actions that were too generous and maybe muddied the waters.
You used the words "withheld", "circumspect", and "cautious" to describe how he was towards you romantically. Forget whatever you were telling yourself about why he was acting that way, he simply doesn't sound like he was that wonderful to date!
It should trouble you that he's stepped up efforts to see you since breaking up with you and he gets upset when you don't enthusiastically comply. Red flag.
You can avoid your past bad experiences by recognizing patterns like this one. Don't always take people at face value. When someone's words and actions aren't in alignment, it's ok for you to make discernments and do what is in your best interests.
Keep looking. Good guys are out there. They are worth the effort!
posted by jbenben at 3:06 PM on June 9, 2011 [2 favorites]
You used the words "withheld", "circumspect", and "cautious" to describe how he was towards you romantically. Forget whatever you were telling yourself about why he was acting that way, he simply doesn't sound like he was that wonderful to date!
It should trouble you that he's stepped up efforts to see you since breaking up with you and he gets upset when you don't enthusiastically comply. Red flag.
You can avoid your past bad experiences by recognizing patterns like this one. Don't always take people at face value. When someone's words and actions aren't in alignment, it's ok for you to make discernments and do what is in your best interests.
Keep looking. Good guys are out there. They are worth the effort!
posted by jbenben at 3:06 PM on June 9, 2011 [2 favorites]
Oh, disregard my previous answer. I read it as 'in denial about your feelings/ability to be friends.' You meant 'in denial that he was ending the romantic relationship.'
You two want different things. I am not even sure what he wants except that it does not align with what you would like. This is not a recipe for success. As one of my favorite AskMe responses ever stated: 'Time to bounce, sister.'
posted by Uniformitarianism Now! at 3:10 PM on June 9, 2011 [2 favorites]
You two want different things. I am not even sure what he wants except that it does not align with what you would like. This is not a recipe for success. As one of my favorite AskMe responses ever stated: 'Time to bounce, sister.'
posted by Uniformitarianism Now! at 3:10 PM on June 9, 2011 [2 favorites]
I have no idea how old you are, but, at 60, I regret the number of times I did not just walk away from assholes.
This sounds like one of those.
posted by Danf at 3:15 PM on June 9, 2011 [30 favorites]
This sounds like one of those.
posted by Danf at 3:15 PM on June 9, 2011 [30 favorites]
You want something different than he does. Doesn't matter if that applies to a friendship or a romance. Doesn't matter why. You're in this mindset where you're analyzing the whys and wherefores and trying to figure out where things turned.
Don't.
It's pointless. There's a bazillion people in the world. Trying to shoehorn one person into a role that doesn't fit (or more accurately, two people) is frustrating and keeps you from finding the right match. Move on.
I'm 40 and echo Danf's thoughts, and will add this: I look back on old relationships and the ones where I didn't walk away soon enough FAR outnumber the ones where I walked away too soon. The ones where I worried I walked away too soon I look back on and realize my instinct was right.
As far as being friends with the dude? If you're entertaining it even in part because of the "maybe later" then it's a horrible, awful idea and will delay your healing.
posted by phearlez at 3:57 PM on June 9, 2011 [3 favorites]
Don't.
It's pointless. There's a bazillion people in the world. Trying to shoehorn one person into a role that doesn't fit (or more accurately, two people) is frustrating and keeps you from finding the right match. Move on.
I'm 40 and echo Danf's thoughts, and will add this: I look back on old relationships and the ones where I didn't walk away soon enough FAR outnumber the ones where I walked away too soon. The ones where I worried I walked away too soon I look back on and realize my instinct was right.
As far as being friends with the dude? If you're entertaining it even in part because of the "maybe later" then it's a horrible, awful idea and will delay your healing.
posted by phearlez at 3:57 PM on June 9, 2011 [3 favorites]
He broke up with you. A) he has bad taste in women. B) don't reward that behavior.
He is for all intents and purposes your ex. The terminolgy he's pushing is bullshit.
posted by Nixy at 4:11 PM on June 9, 2011
He is for all intents and purposes your ex. The terminolgy he's pushing is bullshit.
posted by Nixy at 4:11 PM on June 9, 2011
Wow, I think we know the same guy! In my case, I never really found out if the problem was he was gay, had a red-head fetish, just didn't like me, or if it was a matter of "timing." Since we were really close friends, I took a few weeks off from him, then transitioned to straight, unambiguous friendship. It was not worth trying to date him - but definitely worth keeping him onboard as a friend. Caveat: sometimes having a best guy friend of this sort can occupy the boyfriend space in your life.
posted by yarly at 4:46 PM on June 9, 2011
posted by yarly at 4:46 PM on June 9, 2011
I'm going to go against the grain here and try to give him the benefit of the doubt. I have broken up with people with whom I just wanted to be friends and then made an effort to hang out with them, because I meant it when I said I wanted to be friends. I'm friends with most of my exes, and that means we hang out; sometimes I invite them out, sometimes they invite me out, but someone has to do it first, and maybe he's just trying to initiate that new part of your friendship. If he's like me, he may be trying to make an extra effort to hang out with you in order to attempt to convince you that he still digs you as a person, just not as a potential dating partner. I generally give some space before trying to do much hanging out one on one, but I wouldn't be averse to immediate hanging out if it was a relatively casual thing and I thought the breakup wasn't overwhelmingly emotional for either of us, especially if our friendship was significantly longer than the time we spent dating.
This guy might be a dick, and he might be fucking with you, but he might also genuinely just be trying to figure out how to negotiate the transition from "dating" to friendship and doing it badly. If he's flirting with you or asking you on date-like activities, or being weird about things in other ways that indicate interest, that's bullshit (and the whole don't want to "shut the door" thing is definitely bs too), but if he's inviting you out for happy hour with a group or something else relatively un-sexy, that might just be an awkward attempt at actually being friends. It sounds like you guys worked well as friends, but not so much as romantic partners; maybe he regrets trying to change your friendship and wants to go back to how things were? If you can hang out with him really just as friends without wanting to be with him romantically, why not?
posted by dizziest at 6:07 PM on June 9, 2011 [1 favorite]
This guy might be a dick, and he might be fucking with you, but he might also genuinely just be trying to figure out how to negotiate the transition from "dating" to friendship and doing it badly. If he's flirting with you or asking you on date-like activities, or being weird about things in other ways that indicate interest, that's bullshit (and the whole don't want to "shut the door" thing is definitely bs too), but if he's inviting you out for happy hour with a group or something else relatively un-sexy, that might just be an awkward attempt at actually being friends. It sounds like you guys worked well as friends, but not so much as romantic partners; maybe he regrets trying to change your friendship and wants to go back to how things were? If you can hang out with him really just as friends without wanting to be with him romantically, why not?
posted by dizziest at 6:07 PM on June 9, 2011 [1 favorite]
DTMFA. He's stringing you along by saying he's open to dating in the future, even though now he doesn't want to date and just wants to be friends.
Why doesn't matter. He's a dick and this is going to fuck with your mind if you don't walk away.
posted by J. Wilson at 8:49 PM on June 9, 2011
Why doesn't matter. He's a dick and this is going to fuck with your mind if you don't walk away.
posted by J. Wilson at 8:49 PM on June 9, 2011
Some people are cautious. You said you like to wade right in. I like people who wade run in but as a cautious person I can get very overwhelmed very easily. It's like, hold on now, back up a bit, what's the big rush here?
It doesn't mean anything's off the table it just means - if you're going to wade right in, as a cautious person, how do I know you're not just going to run away just as quick?
After telling you to slow down he made more of an effort - that seemed to be what you wanted - is it what you wanted? Because now he could be confused that you said you wanted something and now you don't.
It is possible that he's cautious and wants to take things slow so as to not ruin them between the two of you. Because your styles are different, miscommunication has ensued and the result is this situation in which you both have no idea what the other person wants.
Alternatively, he could be a dick.
The other thing is - you cannot live in the past. You're desperately afraid that you will encounter the same situation that you did before and you desperately don't want to. This is colouring your interpretations of the current situation. This situation is not that situation. It may have a similar outcome, but if you try to remove the 'I must ensure that never happens again' angst you've attached to your current situation you might be able to get a better handle on it.
posted by mleigh at 11:08 PM on June 9, 2011 [1 favorite]
It doesn't mean anything's off the table it just means - if you're going to wade right in, as a cautious person, how do I know you're not just going to run away just as quick?
After telling you to slow down he made more of an effort - that seemed to be what you wanted - is it what you wanted? Because now he could be confused that you said you wanted something and now you don't.
It is possible that he's cautious and wants to take things slow so as to not ruin them between the two of you. Because your styles are different, miscommunication has ensued and the result is this situation in which you both have no idea what the other person wants.
Alternatively, he could be a dick.
The other thing is - you cannot live in the past. You're desperately afraid that you will encounter the same situation that you did before and you desperately don't want to. This is colouring your interpretations of the current situation. This situation is not that situation. It may have a similar outcome, but if you try to remove the 'I must ensure that never happens again' angst you've attached to your current situation you might be able to get a better handle on it.
posted by mleigh at 11:08 PM on June 9, 2011 [1 favorite]
Been there, done that. Dating a friend and then breaking up and going back to being friends rarely ever works.
Plus this guy, like many people said above, sounds like a total asshole who is not in control of his own emotions. He is manipulating you. WRITE HIM OFF.
posted by heartofglass at 9:46 AM on June 10, 2011
Plus this guy, like many people said above, sounds like a total asshole who is not in control of his own emotions. He is manipulating you. WRITE HIM OFF.
posted by heartofglass at 9:46 AM on June 10, 2011
This thread is closed to new comments.
Its up to you, I guess, whether you are okay with that. If you're not, I'd suggest that you tell him that up front, before anyone (ie, you), gets hurt.
posted by empath at 2:42 PM on June 9, 2011 [11 favorites]