I love these walls, but...
May 20, 2011 12:53 PM Subscribe
I'd like to understand how plaster and lath walls work...and best practices for hanging a variety of things on them.
We live in a teeny bungalow built in 1912. It's great. The large middle room has been redone with drywall, but the two bedrooms have their original plaster walls. I really want to hang stuff on them, but don't really know how—I've done some reading, but I think I need some really specific instructions, like those you would give a six year old.
1. I understand what the laths are, and that the plaster is slopped over and between them so it sticks once it hardens. But are there any studs, too? Can I find them with a regular stud finder?
2. Hanging small/lightweight things—pictures, etc, that just need a nail and a picture hanger. How do you pound a nail into plaster without it cracking and flaking all over the place? Even tiny picture hanging nails seem to create a mess.
3. Hanging heavier things—how would you go about hanging, say, shelves on plaster? Or heavy items like mirrors? Toggle bolt? Anchor bolt? Whaaa?
4. Hanging *big* things—I would dearly love to hang a big piece of pegboard on one of these walls. It wouldn't hold anything heavy—just yarn—but pegboards and their hardware are themselves are large/heavy. And on regular walls, you're supposed to screw slats of wood horizontally to the wall and then attach the pegboard to those. How do I do this on plaster?
5. Finally, how do you patch the holes when you're finished? Our landlord doesn't care if we knock the whole house down, but it would be nice to not leave it trashed.
I understand that a picture rail is the traditional solution to all these things. But we're not about to install one here.
Thanks, Ask Me!
We live in a teeny bungalow built in 1912. It's great. The large middle room has been redone with drywall, but the two bedrooms have their original plaster walls. I really want to hang stuff on them, but don't really know how—I've done some reading, but I think I need some really specific instructions, like those you would give a six year old.
1. I understand what the laths are, and that the plaster is slopped over and between them so it sticks once it hardens. But are there any studs, too? Can I find them with a regular stud finder?
2. Hanging small/lightweight things—pictures, etc, that just need a nail and a picture hanger. How do you pound a nail into plaster without it cracking and flaking all over the place? Even tiny picture hanging nails seem to create a mess.
3. Hanging heavier things—how would you go about hanging, say, shelves on plaster? Or heavy items like mirrors? Toggle bolt? Anchor bolt? Whaaa?
4. Hanging *big* things—I would dearly love to hang a big piece of pegboard on one of these walls. It wouldn't hold anything heavy—just yarn—but pegboards and their hardware are themselves are large/heavy. And on regular walls, you're supposed to screw slats of wood horizontally to the wall and then attach the pegboard to those. How do I do this on plaster?
5. Finally, how do you patch the holes when you're finished? Our landlord doesn't care if we knock the whole house down, but it would be nice to not leave it trashed.
I understand that a picture rail is the traditional solution to all these things. But we're not about to install one here.
Thanks, Ask Me!
1)THe laths are nailed between ordinary studs.
2)The "ook" hangers that have a brass-plated hanger and a steel mini nail work well. If a little plaster pops out, that's ok, patch it later. The ook hangers are pretty damn sturdy.
3) Slightly heavier things, you need a plastic insert and a screw. You drill the hole using a hammer drill.
4) Heavier still are sleeve anchors. See the hardware store.
5) Drywall mud, just like any other.
posted by notsnot at 1:00 PM on May 20, 2011
2)The "ook" hangers that have a brass-plated hanger and a steel mini nail work well. If a little plaster pops out, that's ok, patch it later. The ook hangers are pretty damn sturdy.
3) Slightly heavier things, you need a plastic insert and a screw. You drill the hole using a hammer drill.
4) Heavier still are sleeve anchors. See the hardware store.
5) Drywall mud, just like any other.
posted by notsnot at 1:00 PM on May 20, 2011
1. There are studs. The ones in my house seem just like studs in drywall when I look at them from inside attic spaces. Stud-finders work okay for me, but I guess ymmv?
2. Small things: Honestly, I think it's some combination of luck and surehandedness. If I pound a nail into my plaster wall with confidence, it usually works okay. If I feel fear, I swear the plaster can tell, and it all crumbles to hell. (Smaller nails are better.)
3. Heavier things: I've used picture hangers that are rated to 50 pounds or whatever and it's worked fine. (Provided that your mirror is lighter than 50 pounds, of course.)
4. Heavier, heavier things: Find an older dude at your local hardware store and ask. Or listen to notsnot.
5. Patching: Yes, drywall mud will fill the holes.
posted by purpleclover at 1:04 PM on May 20, 2011
2. Small things: Honestly, I think it's some combination of luck and surehandedness. If I pound a nail into my plaster wall with confidence, it usually works okay. If I feel fear, I swear the plaster can tell, and it all crumbles to hell. (Smaller nails are better.)
3. Heavier things: I've used picture hangers that are rated to 50 pounds or whatever and it's worked fine. (Provided that your mirror is lighter than 50 pounds, of course.)
4. Heavier, heavier things: Find an older dude at your local hardware store and ask. Or listen to notsnot.
5. Patching: Yes, drywall mud will fill the holes.
posted by purpleclover at 1:04 PM on May 20, 2011
1)THe laths are nailed between ordinary studs.
I would say over ordinary studs, although in a 1912 house, the studs could quite easily not be ordinary. But probably ordinary enough for hanging pictures (older studs sometimes have odd dimensions compared to modern lumber). A stud finder might be able to find the studs, but it'll probably have a lot more material and interference to differentitate the studs from the plaster/lath.
posted by LionIndex at 1:05 PM on May 20, 2011
I would say over ordinary studs, although in a 1912 house, the studs could quite easily not be ordinary. But probably ordinary enough for hanging pictures (older studs sometimes have odd dimensions compared to modern lumber). A stud finder might be able to find the studs, but it'll probably have a lot more material and interference to differentitate the studs from the plaster/lath.
posted by LionIndex at 1:05 PM on May 20, 2011
This is what my plaster walls look like from behind. My house was built in the '20s. Yours might be a little more irregular, because the house is older.
posted by purpleclover at 1:08 PM on May 20, 2011
posted by purpleclover at 1:08 PM on May 20, 2011
1. Yes, there are studs. A high-end stud finder might locate them. The cheapest solution, however, is to dangle a magnet from a string and drag it around the wall. The lathe will be nailed into the studs, and your magnet will tug at the nail heads. Find the nails, find the studs.
2. To avoid plaster dust, you can drill a pilot hole, and then hammer your nail into that. You can also use anchors for smaller objects like picture frames.
3 & 4. Bigger items require studs. You don't necessarily need a heavy duty bolt, so long as you're ultimately hitting the stud. Just use screws, and ramp up the size to match what you're hanging. For big items like your pegboard, keep in mind that studs are usually sixteen inches apart on center. It would not surprise me that the spacing is irregular in an older home like yours, so find each stud independently.
5. Spackle, joint compound or toothpaste. The latter to only be used in college five minutes before your RA comes to evaluate your room before you go home for the summer.
posted by Terminal Verbosity at 1:15 PM on May 20, 2011
2. To avoid plaster dust, you can drill a pilot hole, and then hammer your nail into that. You can also use anchors for smaller objects like picture frames.
3 & 4. Bigger items require studs. You don't necessarily need a heavy duty bolt, so long as you're ultimately hitting the stud. Just use screws, and ramp up the size to match what you're hanging. For big items like your pegboard, keep in mind that studs are usually sixteen inches apart on center. It would not surprise me that the spacing is irregular in an older home like yours, so find each stud independently.
5. Spackle, joint compound or toothpaste. The latter to only be used in college five minutes before your RA comes to evaluate your room before you go home for the summer.
posted by Terminal Verbosity at 1:15 PM on May 20, 2011
For lighter items, I was taught to cross scotch tape in an "x", then hammer in the nail. It's supposed to prevent cracking, but it might be an old wives' tale.
posted by runningwithscissors at 1:21 PM on May 20, 2011
posted by runningwithscissors at 1:21 PM on May 20, 2011
For really lightweight things, I just hang them with a command hook. I've had a couple of lighter weight 18 x 18 pictures (no glass) hanging for over 2 years. Also because Mr. jane gets really cranky when I put holes in the plaster. Purpleclover is right, it can smell your fear.
posted by sarajane at 1:27 PM on May 20, 2011
posted by sarajane at 1:27 PM on May 20, 2011
I was never able to hammer a nail without the plaster cracking in my old place.
Then a friend told me his method: first drill the hole, then spit on a small screw, then drive in the screw. Then hang the picture on the screw (or two screws if needed depending on what you're hanging). It worked! No cracks!
And yes, I tried driving in the screw without spitting on them first. Better results with the spitting. Possibly the spitting keeps the plaster from smelling your fear? ;-)
posted by bbq_ribs at 1:50 PM on May 20, 2011 [1 favorite]
Then a friend told me his method: first drill the hole, then spit on a small screw, then drive in the screw. Then hang the picture on the screw (or two screws if needed depending on what you're hanging). It worked! No cracks!
And yes, I tried driving in the screw without spitting on them first. Better results with the spitting. Possibly the spitting keeps the plaster from smelling your fear? ;-)
posted by bbq_ribs at 1:50 PM on May 20, 2011 [1 favorite]
Our 1927 house is all lath and plaster inside. Martha Stewart said to heat a nail before using it to hang something on walls like ours. Also, we put a piece of painter's tape over where the hole is going to be before drilling the pilot hole, like Terminal Verbosity said. The tape holds back a lot of the plaster dust.
I used plaster to patch the large areas of missing plaster when we remodeled, but I've used pre-mixed joint compound on smaller holes ever since.
For small things, I'm big on using those stick-on velcro hangers.
posted by S'Tella Fabula at 2:02 PM on May 20, 2011
I used plaster to patch the large areas of missing plaster when we remodeled, but I've used pre-mixed joint compound on smaller holes ever since.
For small things, I'm big on using those stick-on velcro hangers.
posted by S'Tella Fabula at 2:02 PM on May 20, 2011
I hang heavy things from my lath & plaster wall. Even if you can't find a stud, you hit some lath which is solid wood and will hold a fair bit of weight. I've hung pot racks in my kitchen as well as my bass guitar on the wall just by screwing the racks directly through the plaster and into the lath and they are rock solid. As long as you're not hanging anything that's like 50+ lbs I think you'll be fine.
posted by gnutron at 2:17 PM on May 20, 2011
posted by gnutron at 2:17 PM on May 20, 2011
Also, don't use attempt to use anchor bolts in your plaster (as suggested above) - those things are meant for drywall. You will end up with a mess and a big hole in the plaster.
posted by gnutron at 2:20 PM on May 20, 2011
posted by gnutron at 2:20 PM on May 20, 2011
Magnetic stud finders work on the same principle as Terminal Verbosity's #1, but are easier to use.
posted by Kirth Gerson at 4:38 PM on May 20, 2011
posted by Kirth Gerson at 4:38 PM on May 20, 2011
If you want to add a period detail to the rooms, as well as a functional method of safely hanging pictures, you might consider adding picture rail moulding. You can hang it anywhere from doorway to ceiling height and get decorative hooks to hang your pictures, or hang the rail lower and prop pictures on it.
posted by illenion at 5:08 PM on May 20, 2011 [2 favorites]
posted by illenion at 5:08 PM on May 20, 2011 [2 favorites]
You sure you can't just see the nail-heads in the wall in places? Or ridges in the wall?
"Again, most studs are arranged to that the center from one stud measures 16 inches (sometimes 24 inches) away from the center of the next stud over. Most studs in walls are about 1.5 inches wide, but in older homes, especially those with plaster and lath walls, the studs might be a full 2 inches wide."
From the more useful bottom half of this page:
http://www.homeimprovementsdepot.com/how-to-find-studs-in-walls-10-stud-finding-methods/
posted by pynchonesque at 6:31 PM on May 20, 2011
"Again, most studs are arranged to that the center from one stud measures 16 inches (sometimes 24 inches) away from the center of the next stud over. Most studs in walls are about 1.5 inches wide, but in older homes, especially those with plaster and lath walls, the studs might be a full 2 inches wide."
From the more useful bottom half of this page:
http://www.homeimprovementsdepot.com/how-to-find-studs-in-walls-10-stud-finding-methods/
posted by pynchonesque at 6:31 PM on May 20, 2011
The traditional way of handling this is picture moulding. It's small strip of trim that runs near the top of wall, but with a gap between the moulding and the ceiling, designed so you can hang pictures from it without damaging the plaster. It's pretty standard in old houses. If your house doesn't already have it, you could install some.
OK. I should have looked. illenion said that already. So, seconding the recommendation.
posted by nangar at 8:33 PM on May 20, 2011
OK. I should have looked. illenion said that already. So, seconding the recommendation.
posted by nangar at 8:33 PM on May 20, 2011
From the op:
I understand that a picture rail is the traditional solution to all these things. But we're not about to install one here.
:)
posted by Rube R. Nekker at 8:43 PM on May 20, 2011
I understand that a picture rail is the traditional solution to all these things. But we're not about to install one here.
:)
posted by Rube R. Nekker at 8:43 PM on May 20, 2011
To drive a nail into a plaster wall drill a hole just barely smaller than the nail and then push the nail in. Don't use a hammer drill, a regular drill is fine and won't blow out the back. And you don't need fancy plaster drills. Cheap 135 degree flute tool steel drills are fine.
pynchonesque writes "You sure you can't just see the nail-heads in the wall in places? Or ridges in the wall? "
Even a crappy lathe and plaster wall is going to completely obscure visual clues to stud locations. The nails are 1/2" below a trowelled surface.
posted by Mitheral at 10:41 PM on May 20, 2011
pynchonesque writes "You sure you can't just see the nail-heads in the wall in places? Or ridges in the wall? "
Even a crappy lathe and plaster wall is going to completely obscure visual clues to stud locations. The nails are 1/2" below a trowelled surface.
posted by Mitheral at 10:41 PM on May 20, 2011
This thread is closed to new comments.
posted by otherwordlyglow at 12:58 PM on May 20, 2011